MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
last minute sackings
Unfortunately a flights cabin crew yesterday were stood down prior to flight in order to pax back to CNS. Why? Because they'd been terminated yesterday, CNS base closed.
Dear Don,
You reckon emirates flock as you call them of A380s is not part of the cause of Qantas problems?
And as the fleet grows it will distort markets around the globe?
Try telling that to Air Mauritius, were Emirates now run a 380 and a777 daily from Dubai,
Or that Emirates recently started 777 from Dubai to Taipei, will not be a double daily 380 in2 years, given Taiwan signed an open skies agreement with the UAE 20 odd years ago, and you reckon that will not have a major effect on China Airlines and Eva Airs flights to Europe?
And the list goes on!
You reckon emirates flock as you call them of A380s is not part of the cause of Qantas problems?
And as the fleet grows it will distort markets around the globe?
Try telling that to Air Mauritius, were Emirates now run a 380 and a777 daily from Dubai,
Or that Emirates recently started 777 from Dubai to Taipei, will not be a double daily 380 in2 years, given Taiwan signed an open skies agreement with the UAE 20 odd years ago, and you reckon that will not have a major effect on China Airlines and Eva Airs flights to Europe?
And the list goes on!
With this point,
and the fact that some people have said that it is not a new announcement, I just found some old announcements, press releases.
1. In July 2011 QF announced that the 767's would all be gone by 2018.
2. In Nov 2012 QF announced the refurbishment of the 767's and completed by Mar 2013
3. In Feb 2013 QF announced that the 'older' 767's would be phased out by mid 2015.
4. Yesterday QF announced all 767's retired by 1st quarter of 2014/15 - is 'by' meant to mean by the start? which is 1st July 2014 or the end of the 1st quarter which is 30 Sept 2014.
So from Feb 2013 saying that the older 767's would go to Feb 2014 saying that they would all go. I wonder what will be said in Feb 2015?
- See more at: Qantas to retire 767s no later than 2018 - Wings Down Under
Qantas accelerates refresh of B767 fleet
12 months ago:
QANTAS Group announces a fleet update, will retire its last Boeing 737-400 and 767-300, the Boeing 737-800 fleet will grow to 75 | World Airline News
All of its Boeing 767s will be retired by the first quarter of 2014-15.
1. In July 2011 QF announced that the 767's would all be gone by 2018.
2. In Nov 2012 QF announced the refurbishment of the 767's and completed by Mar 2013
3. In Feb 2013 QF announced that the 'older' 767's would be phased out by mid 2015.
4. Yesterday QF announced all 767's retired by 1st quarter of 2014/15 - is 'by' meant to mean by the start? which is 1st July 2014 or the end of the 1st quarter which is 30 Sept 2014.
So from Feb 2013 saying that the older 767's would go to Feb 2014 saying that they would all go. I wonder what will be said in Feb 2015?
Qantas to retire 767s no later than 2018
by Will Horton on July 6, 2011
Qantas expects 2018 to be the latest year by which it will retire its 26-strong Boeing 767 fleet.
The indicative timing was the only forward projection of the airline’s fleet disclosed to a recent Macquarie conference.
A Qantas spokesman says the carrier could look to retire its large-capacity domestic workhorse earlier than 2018 if deliveries of 787 Dreamliners and other new aircraft hold up.
by Will Horton on July 6, 2011
Qantas expects 2018 to be the latest year by which it will retire its 26-strong Boeing 767 fleet.
The indicative timing was the only forward projection of the airline’s fleet disclosed to a recent Macquarie conference.
A Qantas spokesman says the carrier could look to retire its large-capacity domestic workhorse earlier than 2018 if deliveries of 787 Dreamliners and other new aircraft hold up.
Qantas accelerates refresh of B767 fleet
Written by Qantas Friday, 02 November 2012 15:10
Qantas has announced it will fast track the refurbishment of 16 Boeing 767 (B767) aircraft with new interiors and individual in-flight entertainment as part of wider investment in the domestic customer experience.
The first of the refreshed B767s has commenced flying today and will predominantly fly between Perth Sydney , Melbourne and Brisbane.
The last aircraft is targeted for completion by the end of March 2013 – completing the project six months earlier than originally planned.
Written by Qantas Friday, 02 November 2012 15:10
Qantas has announced it will fast track the refurbishment of 16 Boeing 767 (B767) aircraft with new interiors and individual in-flight entertainment as part of wider investment in the domestic customer experience.
The first of the refreshed B767s has commenced flying today and will predominantly fly between Perth Sydney , Melbourne and Brisbane.
The last aircraft is targeted for completion by the end of March 2013 – completing the project six months earlier than originally planned.
12 months ago:
QANTAS Group announces a fleet update, will retire its last Boeing 737-400 and 767-300, the Boeing 737-800 fleet will grow to 75
By Bruce Drum on February 21, 2013
The QANTAS Group (QANTAS Airways) (Sydney) has announced it will upgrade its entire fleet of Airbus A330s and order new Boeing 737-800s to drive its strategy in the international and domestic markets.
Beginning in late 2014, the Group will reconfigure the interior of 10 Airbus A330-300s and 20 A330-200s with a new flat seat in business class, refreshed economy cabin and a new inflight entertainment offering.
The A330-300s will be operated by QANTAS International on its network between Australia and Asia, while the A330-200s will be operated by QANTAS Domestic on routes between the east coast and Perth – enabling the final retirement of the Group’s Boeing 767s.
The Group will also purchase five additional Boeing 737-800 aircraft for QANTAS Domestic (for delivery during 2014) and extend the leases on two existing Boeing 737-800s this year.
The A330 reconfiguration program and the additional Boeing 737-800 orders do not affect the Group’s planned capital expenditure of $1.6 billion in 2012/13 and $1.5 billion in 2013/14..
The airline will also upgrade 20 A330-200s for QANTAS Domestic’s wide body fleet – meaning the trans-continental flights will be operated by aircraft featuring lie-flat beds in business and the latest inflight entertainment technology.
The Boeing 737-800 fleet will ultimately grow to 75 aircraft.
The older narrow body Boeing 737-400s will be phased out by the end of 2013 and Boeing 767s by mid-2015.
The group recently announced new orders for five additional Boeing 717 aircraft and three additional Bombardier Q400s for its regional operations.
By Bruce Drum on February 21, 2013
The QANTAS Group (QANTAS Airways) (Sydney) has announced it will upgrade its entire fleet of Airbus A330s and order new Boeing 737-800s to drive its strategy in the international and domestic markets.
Beginning in late 2014, the Group will reconfigure the interior of 10 Airbus A330-300s and 20 A330-200s with a new flat seat in business class, refreshed economy cabin and a new inflight entertainment offering.
The A330-300s will be operated by QANTAS International on its network between Australia and Asia, while the A330-200s will be operated by QANTAS Domestic on routes between the east coast and Perth – enabling the final retirement of the Group’s Boeing 767s.
The Group will also purchase five additional Boeing 737-800 aircraft for QANTAS Domestic (for delivery during 2014) and extend the leases on two existing Boeing 737-800s this year.
The A330 reconfiguration program and the additional Boeing 737-800 orders do not affect the Group’s planned capital expenditure of $1.6 billion in 2012/13 and $1.5 billion in 2013/14..
The airline will also upgrade 20 A330-200s for QANTAS Domestic’s wide body fleet – meaning the trans-continental flights will be operated by aircraft featuring lie-flat beds in business and the latest inflight entertainment technology.
The Boeing 737-800 fleet will ultimately grow to 75 aircraft.
The older narrow body Boeing 737-400s will be phased out by the end of 2013 and Boeing 767s by mid-2015.
The group recently announced new orders for five additional Boeing 717 aircraft and three additional Bombardier Q400s for its regional operations.
Part of the reason the wage costs of Middle Eastern, SQ and CX are lower is that the wages are at a much lower tax rate. Remember that some QF drivers are leaving for Emirates, some permanately. To live in the Middle East can only be justified if there is a win on a financial level - whilst the wages are lower they are tax free - Government subsidized in a way. So I feel it's unfair to do a direct comparison with QF.
Also there are two economies in many of these countries - the poor are very poor. The Cheap foreign workers in the Middle East are making less than 1000 per month - it makes it easy to compete when you import very cheap labour...
Also there are two economies in many of these countries - the poor are very poor. The Cheap foreign workers in the Middle East are making less than 1000 per month - it makes it easy to compete when you import very cheap labour...
Australia may be unique in ceding so many landing rights to foreign carriers without a hope of real reciprocity. The Europeans and Canadians, to name just two, are not nearly so generous.
If we are to enjoy the dry economic argument of more competition means lower fares then we must complete the idea with the admission that eventually there will be a winner and that then monopoly pricing will again prevail.
I believe that EK can end up being too successful...too easy a target for punitive retroactive protectionism. But of course that will be after its already to late for the former flag carriers.
On the other hand, Air NZ has yesterday demonstrated what able management can achieve.
...anyway, got to run! It almost tee time here at the Clifford Invitational. Fore!
If we are to enjoy the dry economic argument of more competition means lower fares then we must complete the idea with the admission that eventually there will be a winner and that then monopoly pricing will again prevail.
I believe that EK can end up being too successful...too easy a target for punitive retroactive protectionism. But of course that will be after its already to late for the former flag carriers.
On the other hand, Air NZ has yesterday demonstrated what able management can achieve.
...anyway, got to run! It almost tee time here at the Clifford Invitational. Fore!
Hey Canonball: time for one of your insightful and sensitive posts about comparative executive pay. And effectiveness. Then go away.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Western Pacific
Posts: 721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People keep going on about reducing the wage cost at QF like it is the single biggest reason for the company's dire financial position. Even if you cut every employee's pay overnight it would not make any significant difference to the current position.
While the issue of pay rates will probably need to be addressed at some point, QF has much more significant issues to address first, if they are to have any hope of being around in the longer term.
One is to stop flushing money down the toilet of senior management's pet projects & another is to stop trashing the brand. But this won't stop until, depending on your conspiracy theory position, the ineptitude of the senior management team is recognised & dealt with, or the ulterior motive for bringing the airline to the brink of financial collapse is revealed & acted upon.
While the issue of pay rates will probably need to be addressed at some point, QF has much more significant issues to address first, if they are to have any hope of being around in the longer term.
One is to stop flushing money down the toilet of senior management's pet projects & another is to stop trashing the brand. But this won't stop until, depending on your conspiracy theory position, the ineptitude of the senior management team is recognised & dealt with, or the ulterior motive for bringing the airline to the brink of financial collapse is revealed & acted upon.
Dick Smith on ABC 774 hit the nail on the head,
summary
labour costs for long haul are comparatively high. Quoted min wage in oz versus us and china.
Qantas can't compete on cost, fair enough.
Problem is most Ozzies don't want to pay for the higher fares even if service is superior.
Domestic is different as labour costs are similar between the competitors.
End summary.
Really, is there a more pertinent point.
Government intervention amounts to both flying and non flying tax payers paying for creature comforts for Qantas passengers….
Mickjoebill
summary
labour costs for long haul are comparatively high. Quoted min wage in oz versus us and china.
Qantas can't compete on cost, fair enough.
Problem is most Ozzies don't want to pay for the higher fares even if service is superior.
Domestic is different as labour costs are similar between the competitors.
End summary.
Really, is there a more pertinent point.
Government intervention amounts to both flying and non flying tax payers paying for creature comforts for Qantas passengers….
Mickjoebill
Well then what do we do? Just give up and walk away because abject poverty is the world median condition? Let's just offshore every damned thing then we can all concentrate on selling real estate to each other!
Every single job that can be done without actually physically being here will disappear, and the airline jobs can be performed by people from low tax base countries who fly in and out.
Who is going to be left paying taxes here? I am going to need more than a few hairdressers to keep me in Centrelink riches.
Every single job that can be done without actually physically being here will disappear, and the airline jobs can be performed by people from low tax base countries who fly in and out.
Who is going to be left paying taxes here? I am going to need more than a few hairdressers to keep me in Centrelink riches.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: goulburn
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This whole cost of labour issue can be resolved by a proper negotiation if QF want to and is a complete side issue.
No one is focusing on the costs of bad decisions to invest or not invest for the last ten years and it is here that the true accountability should be found. Let alone the cost of projects that started and either failed (RedQ, Asia) or were discontinued and the "creative" (ie dodgy) accounting to cover up what happened. Then we add the cost of consultants that were absorbed into the cost structures.
Lets hope at some point these question get asked because there is not much happening at the moment to give any hope.
No one is focusing on the costs of bad decisions to invest or not invest for the last ten years and it is here that the true accountability should be found. Let alone the cost of projects that started and either failed (RedQ, Asia) or were discontinued and the "creative" (ie dodgy) accounting to cover up what happened. Then we add the cost of consultants that were absorbed into the cost structures.
Lets hope at some point these question get asked because there is not much happening at the moment to give any hope.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joyce finally says something correct!
Changing Qantas Sale Act not enough, says Alan Joyce
Read more: Changing Qantas Sale Act not enough, says Alan Joyce
Any truth in the rumour that splitting the AOC cost $320m and now they decide to 'unsplit' them?
If true I would assume that is now $640M??
If true I would assume that is now $640M??
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: goulburn
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If that is true, then it puts GT's comments about meat and three vegs into perspective.When is anyone going to hold these spin doctors to account with those that feed them the lines and show them it just doesn't work and only some are fools not all.
A lot of those split AOC costs will go on. Once you knight someone as an executive they never go back to their old wage/position. So now we have an entire unused set of executives and managers to try and hide somewhere.
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: ...second left, past the lights.
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Spot-on ohallen!
The dodgey accounting smoke and mirrors hides the true labour costs but one Union estimates it to be approx 20%.
The smoke and mirrors started back with Jimmy Bow-tie when Sunnies and Eastern EBA's where coming up... hide what profits each were making and how efficient the ops were. it all got bundled into "Subsidiaries" which included catering, Airlink etc.
The cost of failed ventures and poor management (& their bonuses) far outweigh all the rest. True that in some QF segments work practices need to be adjusted and the Rep union/s may have been OTT, but you must engage in the workforce or loose it.
Millions squandered in "feasibility studies"; initial set-ups; court-cases (Jetstar Pacific) & failed ventures they tried to go ahead with, without the required local approvals... yes RED Q, Jetstar HKG, Jestar Japan... come to think of it, how many A320's do they have parked now, in France, Japan and HKG? NOT CHEAP!
The dodgey accounting smoke and mirrors hides the true labour costs but one Union estimates it to be approx 20%.
The smoke and mirrors started back with Jimmy Bow-tie when Sunnies and Eastern EBA's where coming up... hide what profits each were making and how efficient the ops were. it all got bundled into "Subsidiaries" which included catering, Airlink etc.
The cost of failed ventures and poor management (& their bonuses) far outweigh all the rest. True that in some QF segments work practices need to be adjusted and the Rep union/s may have been OTT, but you must engage in the workforce or loose it.
Millions squandered in "feasibility studies"; initial set-ups; court-cases (Jetstar Pacific) & failed ventures they tried to go ahead with, without the required local approvals... yes RED Q, Jetstar HKG, Jestar Japan... come to think of it, how many A320's do they have parked now, in France, Japan and HKG? NOT CHEAP!
Australia may be unique in ceding so many landing rights to foreign carriers without a hope of real reciprocity. The Europeans and Canadians, to name just two, are not nearly so generous.
A quick look at Emirates departures from Australia tomorrow the 1st of March shows from:
SYD - A380 x 2, 777 via BKK A330 via SIN and then an A380,
MEL - A380, 777 via KUL & 777 via SIN
BNE - A380, 777 via SIN
PER - 777 x 3
ADL - 777
I'd day the Australian government(s) have been too generous.
CX & SQ would be up there as well for sure.
WOW
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: ...second left, past the lights.
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Yeh good point 73' but this might explain abit.
He has got in bed with the very people he is complaining about, and they're raiding the pantry (utilising all QF's EU slots).
He has got in bed with the very people he is complaining about, and they're raiding the pantry (utilising all QF's EU slots).