MERGED: Alan's still not happy......
Disagree Gaunty. I've been an employer for 15+ years so I get where you are coming from but having spent 5 days every LHR trip to be awake before 3pm MEL/SYD/BNE time and then doing the same thing - for the next 30 years just ain't fun. Then the sims etc.
Not worth the argument, it's horses for courses but there is nothing like 'home'.
And BOY do I understand 'pay staff first!'.
The big problem with anyone at QF HQ is they have never run anything as complex as a school tuck shop. And if I had the opportunity to trust them doing it, I wouldn't because they have no experience in face to face business.
Not worth the argument, it's horses for courses but there is nothing like 'home'.
And BOY do I understand 'pay staff first!'.
The big problem with anyone at QF HQ is they have never run anything as complex as a school tuck shop. And if I had the opportunity to trust them doing it, I wouldn't because they have no experience in face to face business.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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A o A = True. 
but we all pay, in my case I chose to fund them. HECS is great if you do not have an alternative but it makes life a bit harder than is should.
In my day it was and should be free, we need a usefully skilled workforce. Whilst it was free there were some academic and labour constraints. Nowadays a PhD in basket weaving is entirely possible on the public purse and you never get to pay it back because you never earn enough. So why is he economy stuffed.
Tank person. No doubt but the extra they pay is to attract people for "living" overseas. I have not met many of them that don't make family sacrifices or wish they were on less working in Australia.
There must some attraction in Australia. People are literally dying to get to live here. The prospect of resettlement in PNG has yet to bite.
but we all pay, in my case I chose to fund them. HECS is great if you do not have an alternative but it makes life a bit harder than is should. In my day it was and should be free, we need a usefully skilled workforce. Whilst it was free there were some academic and labour constraints. Nowadays a PhD in basket weaving is entirely possible on the public purse and you never get to pay it back because you never earn enough. So why is he economy stuffed.
Tank person. No doubt but the extra they pay is to attract people for "living" overseas. I have not met many of them that don't make family sacrifices or wish they were on less working in Australia.
There must some attraction in Australia. People are literally dying to get to live here. The prospect of resettlement in PNG has yet to bite.
I am deaf to the argument about more experience needs more money. Might have worked 30 years ago but not now. In any case where are they going to go anyway. I suspect QF top pay scales are probably the highest in the world. Why?
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Gaunty,
Sorry you misunderstand. I am talking about Australian based crew for China Southern and Air China. Bases in Sydney, Melbourne and I think Brisbane.
I agree with not wanting to live overseas, it is why Emirates etc pay for housing, schooling, Medical etc that Qantas doesn't.
Sorry you misunderstand. I am talking about Australian based crew for China Southern and Air China. Bases in Sydney, Melbourne and I think Brisbane.
I agree with not wanting to live overseas, it is why Emirates etc pay for housing, schooling, Medical etc that Qantas doesn't.
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V-Jet.
Can't disagree overall but we all make our choices in life.
I declined the cadet ship for the very reason you describe, I thought it through and the prospect of the long haul siberian express just didn't do it for me. I had options.
You're right there hasn't been any seriously exerienced management at QF for a very long time.
They never really made the transition from Public Service Management to reality which was for a long time, obscured by the protectionist market.
But we now live in a different reality, I'm not sure I understand it but it's not ife as we knew it.
IMHO We had the best of Australia but my children whilst a tad more cynical, think they have the same.
My youngest granddaughter will easily see 2100, who knows what she will experience.
Can't disagree overall but we all make our choices in life.
I declined the cadet ship for the very reason you describe, I thought it through and the prospect of the long haul siberian express just didn't do it for me. I had options.
You're right there hasn't been any seriously exerienced management at QF for a very long time.
They never really made the transition from Public Service Management to reality which was for a long time, obscured by the protectionist market.
But we now live in a different reality, I'm not sure I understand it but it's not ife as we knew it.
IMHO We had the best of Australia but my children whilst a tad more cynical, think they have the same.
My youngest granddaughter will easily see 2100, who knows what she will experience.
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2100? That is just scary, but it puts some perspective on what a really short European history this country has thats another 30% or so! By 2100 I will be coal and contributing a few hundred grams of CO2 to Global Warming. Thus I will raise my fishtank about 1/millionth of a bees dick.... Say goodbye Goldfish.....youve had it too good for too long......
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Whoop Whoop
If that's so then what are they waiting for.
The only choice then is Virgin or OS.
Tank person.
Great, thats market forces, if you want to attract them from Qantas pay more.
Loyalty? Just like QF is being loyal to the 5,000.
Not sure I like it a lot but at my age it's irrelevant, but we now truly live in a global world.
My children humor me on most things now.
If that's so then what are they waiting for.
The only choice then is Virgin or OS.
Tank person.
Great, thats market forces, if you want to attract them from Qantas pay more.
Loyalty? Just like QF is being loyal to the 5,000.
Not sure I like it a lot but at my age it's irrelevant, but we now truly live in a global world.
My children humor me on most things now.
So the pay rates for the desert did the Emirates road show tell you that.
I have a few mates up there and they can't wait to leave. The money might sound good but that figure will include school fees and housing. Scheduled O/T whether you like it or not. If you don't do the scheduled O/T they take it form your leave.
Want to take leave. Sorry we are so busy you can't have any.
Don't have a 777 330 or 380 then don't bother wasting their time, the list of Indians in line for a course will far outweigh the length of time you want to stay.
So when all is said and done it works out at about $85-$90K take home.
Maybe OK for a single bloke but these guys and their wives quickly got over it.
Don't believe the hype.
I have a few mates up there and they can't wait to leave. The money might sound good but that figure will include school fees and housing. Scheduled O/T whether you like it or not. If you don't do the scheduled O/T they take it form your leave.
Want to take leave. Sorry we are so busy you can't have any.
Don't have a 777 330 or 380 then don't bother wasting their time, the list of Indians in line for a course will far outweigh the length of time you want to stay.
So when all is said and done it works out at about $85-$90K take home.
Maybe OK for a single bloke but these guys and their wives quickly got over it.
Don't believe the hype.
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Just back from doing Sunrise with this Aviation expert, damn I wish I was given the last word.
GT - People aren't prepared to pay the extra to fly Qantas.
ME - Read out loads to 4 countries showing Qantas loads higher, explain they are prepared to pay.
GT - Yes the planes are full but the fields are down.
Thnx gents.
GT - People aren't prepared to pay the extra to fly Qantas.
ME - Read out loads to 4 countries showing Qantas loads higher, explain they are prepared to pay.
GT - Yes the planes are full but the fields are down.
Thnx gents.
He has spoken, he is alive!!
Just heard on SKY News (09:12 Saturday) that L Clifford has endorsed AJ as the CEO, via google I found this:
Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford backs CEO Alan Joyce as unions gear up for fight | theage.com.au
Just heard on SKY News (09:12 Saturday) that L Clifford has endorsed AJ as the CEO, via google I found this:
Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford backs CEO Alan Joyce as unions gear up for fight | theage.com.au
Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford has stood firmly behind his embattled chief executive Alan Joyce over his high-stakes strategy of slashing 5000 jobs, in the midst of stiff opposition from powerful unions and the Abbott government dashing the airline's hopes for financial assistance.
His comments came as the airline suffered another setback late on Friday, with collision of two Qantas jets on the ground at Los Angeles airport.
A day after Mr Joyce outlined plans to axe jobs, cut routes and cancel orders for new planes, Mr Clifford said in a Fairfax Media editorial that the overhaul would accelerate the ''transformation of Qantas under Alan Joyce's leadership with the full support of the Qantas board''.
''Hard decisions have been needed to reduce Qantas' cost base and improve productivity relative to its major competitors. More hard decisions will be needed in future,'' he wrote.
But union heavyweights left a meeting with Qantas management on Friday little wiser and vowing to ''fight for every job'', indicating Mr Joyce will face an uphill battle in convincing them to agree to a wages freeze.
His comments came as the airline suffered another setback late on Friday, with collision of two Qantas jets on the ground at Los Angeles airport.
A day after Mr Joyce outlined plans to axe jobs, cut routes and cancel orders for new planes, Mr Clifford said in a Fairfax Media editorial that the overhaul would accelerate the ''transformation of Qantas under Alan Joyce's leadership with the full support of the Qantas board''.
''Hard decisions have been needed to reduce Qantas' cost base and improve productivity relative to its major competitors. More hard decisions will be needed in future,'' he wrote.
But union heavyweights left a meeting with Qantas management on Friday little wiser and vowing to ''fight for every job'', indicating Mr Joyce will face an uphill battle in convincing them to agree to a wages freeze.
CASA surveillance on flight crew?! Shouldn't they be keeping an eye on the head office? Every single threat to safety ever to be introduced into this organisation has come in the form of a directive from the top, and in the interests of cost cutting-not safety.
Then again, if flight crew went sick (in the interests of safety) due to stress and fatigue, Joyce would no doubt call it industrial action.
Can't win.
Then again, if flight crew went sick (in the interests of safety) due to stress and fatigue, Joyce would no doubt call it industrial action.
Can't win.
AJ's gunna be more unhappy now with a couple of the QF planes getting up close & personal in LA. See if QF didn't have any planes then they wouldn't be in this god awful mess !
Some turkey (missed most of the report) was on Sunrise this morning saying AJ was a good CEO or words to that effect saying he has made the tuff choices (sacking 5K people) in order for the Airline to survive. Christ where do these guys get off with saying that crap & believing it?
You know some entrepreneurial (thank God for spelling check!) people will start collecting anything to do with QF such as nick knacks etc as they could be worth quite a bit in the near future when QF desolves into some other form of toxic waste!:-)
Wmk2
Some turkey (missed most of the report) was on Sunrise this morning saying AJ was a good CEO or words to that effect saying he has made the tuff choices (sacking 5K people) in order for the Airline to survive. Christ where do these guys get off with saying that crap & believing it?
You know some entrepreneurial (thank God for spelling check!) people will start collecting anything to do with QF such as nick knacks etc as they could be worth quite a bit in the near future when QF desolves into some other form of toxic waste!:-)
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 28th Feb 2014 at 22:34.
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Of course Clifford is going to back Joyce, where else can he go. He can recommend the board sack Joyce, listing the reasons why, but then it comes back to the problem of the obvious fact that Clifford was on board with all the decisions, and this will be picked up but the media in one second. He has no choice but to stick with Joyce, at $700.000 a year he is going to sit tight for as long as he can. They will have been advised by their spin doctors, to keep tight, as the turbulence swirls around them, but eventually the press and public will tire of the whole sad mess, and accept what many now consider inevitable, either the closing of the whole box and dice, known as Qantas, and Jetstar will fly on, or become part Roo part Panda, or even worse, our girls seen in those hint at Muslim head gear. Its almost time to do a "Delta" let the staff take over the airline, surely to God within that 30,000 there is someone with brains, nous, loyalty, ability to see ahead, and the ability to take the staff along with them, into the future, picking up paying routes, pis3ing off anyone with "attitude" they have no place in the new company, only dedicated service, safety, and pride in their business, is acceptable. A dream, of course, but then again, QF was founded on a dream.
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And while we are all thinking about this 1/30,000 capable of actually running QF, it is one thing for the QF Board to not appoint JB as the CEO but an entirely different matter after having experienced the competence for so long, why didn't they take some action to actual prevent him from going to the opposition???
Appointment to subsidiary boards, international industry representations (Vietnam aside because he would never have fallen for that) or some cushy role in a favourite city and paid a fortune. All legitimate corporate tactics to protect brand and extensive knowledge of internal operations, but these guys actually facilitated VA to bring the fight to QF.
Perhaps this was even AJ's doing to get rid of a more competent rival from his new playground???
Again where is the accountability for that obviously dumb decision from a new perspective?
Appointment to subsidiary boards, international industry representations (Vietnam aside because he would never have fallen for that) or some cushy role in a favourite city and paid a fortune. All legitimate corporate tactics to protect brand and extensive knowledge of internal operations, but these guys actually facilitated VA to bring the fight to QF.
Perhaps this was even AJ's doing to get rid of a more competent rival from his new playground???
Again where is the accountability for that obviously dumb decision from a new perspective?
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Ohallen, in view of the alleged 60k per month paid to Buchanan to "retain" him
as an adviser (WTF), paying JB would/should have seemed a no-brainer, that
is except for the fact that this mob given an opportunity to stuff things up
grab it with both hands.
as an adviser (WTF), paying JB would/should have seemed a no-brainer, that
is except for the fact that this mob given an opportunity to stuff things up
grab it with both hands.