5th September QF Announcement
Yarra,
EK-state owned enterprise
No let's explore this a little:
1. Pays NO Corporate taxes
2. Pays NO Payroll taxes
3. Borrows money at state guaranteed rates
4. Advertising paid for by the UAE Government(UAE tourism)
5. Sydney Airport the most expensive in the Asia/Pacific region(MEL, BNE not far behind). Dubai Airport owned by UAE Government-how much does EK pay?
6. EK does not have to report to shareholders as a public company like QF
Just a start.....has unlimited rights into Australia where most countries exercise restraint to at least give their own a chance to compete...
EK-state owned enterprise
No let's explore this a little:
1. Pays NO Corporate taxes
2. Pays NO Payroll taxes
3. Borrows money at state guaranteed rates
4. Advertising paid for by the UAE Government(UAE tourism)
5. Sydney Airport the most expensive in the Asia/Pacific region(MEL, BNE not far behind). Dubai Airport owned by UAE Government-how much does EK pay?
6. EK does not have to report to shareholders as a public company like QF
Just a start.....has unlimited rights into Australia where most countries exercise restraint to at least give their own a chance to compete...
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They used to say you need aircraft in the air to keep the profitable frequent flyer program going. It seems they've found a way around this by using other other airline's aircraft. Now they can gradually retire the entire QF international fleet and grow the frequent flyer program which is where the real money is.
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They used to say you need aircraft in the air to keep the profitable frequent flyer program going. It seems they've found a way around this by using other other airline's aircraft. Now they can gradually retire the entire QF international fleet and grow the frequent flyer program which is where the real money is.
Getting rid of Qf international makes no sense nor any money. If emirates has a monopoly position on the Qf freq flyers, it will squeeze Qf's profits until there is nothing left for Qf. Qf must maintain an airborne presence to ensure a profitable position can be negotiated and maintained.
Emirates has a great network but it doesn't help across the pacific or into Asia.
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What we will likely never know is the difference that the FF program has to pay QF for a seat v. what it will be billed by EK.
It is likely that the " profits" in frequent flyer have been made by revenue shifting away from QF Intl. I cannot imagine that FF will enjoy the same terms with EK, especially since the majority of the points redemptions occur on intl flights; soon to be on EK intl flights.
It is likely that the " profits" in frequent flyer have been made by revenue shifting away from QF Intl. I cannot imagine that FF will enjoy the same terms with EK, especially since the majority of the points redemptions occur on intl flights; soon to be on EK intl flights.
Taken from the UK Revenue and Customs website:
Have a stop over one your way back and save money
Or fly from the UK to somewhere in Europe you'd like to visit, such as Paris and arrange your ticket so you only transit the UK on your return and pay the lowest APD charge for a flight to Europe.
Alternatively buy an open jaw ticket SYD - DXB - LHR then PAR - DXB - SYD. Get yourself over to Paris quite cheaply spend a day or two and fly home from there.
Example 2
Flight details
London to Dubai then Dubai to Sydney
scheduled to arrive at Dubai UAE (Band B) at 17.50 on 1 November
booked to depart to Sydney (Band D) at 23.15 hours on 2 November
as more than 24 hours has elapsed between the flights, they are not considered to be connected for APD purposes and £60 or £120 APD (Band B rate) (depending on class of travel) is due.
The class of travel occupied between Dubai and Sydney is irrelevant.
London to Dubai then Dubai to Sydney
scheduled to arrive at Dubai (Band B) at 17.50 on 1 November
booked to depart to Sydney (Band D) at 23.15 hours on 1 November
as the scheduled departure of the second flight is within 24 hours of the arrival of the first then the flights are considered to be connected for APD purposes and £85 or £170 APD (Band D rate) (depending on class of travel) is due.
If a higher class of travel has been occupied on either the London-Dubai and/or the Dubai-Sydney leg, £170 APD is due.
Rates quoted in this example are for 1 November 2010 to 31 March 2012 and are for illustrative purposes only.
Flight details
London to Dubai then Dubai to Sydney
scheduled to arrive at Dubai UAE (Band B) at 17.50 on 1 November
booked to depart to Sydney (Band D) at 23.15 hours on 2 November
as more than 24 hours has elapsed between the flights, they are not considered to be connected for APD purposes and £60 or £120 APD (Band B rate) (depending on class of travel) is due.
The class of travel occupied between Dubai and Sydney is irrelevant.
London to Dubai then Dubai to Sydney
scheduled to arrive at Dubai (Band B) at 17.50 on 1 November
booked to depart to Sydney (Band D) at 23.15 hours on 1 November
as the scheduled departure of the second flight is within 24 hours of the arrival of the first then the flights are considered to be connected for APD purposes and £85 or £170 APD (Band D rate) (depending on class of travel) is due.
If a higher class of travel has been occupied on either the London-Dubai and/or the Dubai-Sydney leg, £170 APD is due.
Rates quoted in this example are for 1 November 2010 to 31 March 2012 and are for illustrative purposes only.
Or fly from the UK to somewhere in Europe you'd like to visit, such as Paris and arrange your ticket so you only transit the UK on your return and pay the lowest APD charge for a flight to Europe.
Case B covers international connections (a flight connecting through the UK to another flight to an international destination).
International flight to international flight
Case B rules
£0 APD due.
International flight to international flight
Case B rules
£0 APD due.
Last edited by Metro man; 8th Sep 2012 at 01:50.
I dont agree about singletons assertions that a tax should be levied on competitors to protect Qantas. But I do believe we shouldn't allow foreign competitors to capacity dump in this industry or any industry that is a major employer in this country. The host country should get free right of return, if EK lands 500 seats in an Australian port, an Australian airline gets 500 seats in their port. 1 for 1, not 109 per week vs 14. If the demand is there, both airlines can grow concurrently.
The benefit to Australia with justification that there is more low paid hospitality jobs created to counteract the loss in high paid skilled positions, the closure of most of Qantas's maintenance facilities being an excellent example, doesn't in my opinion justify a free trade.
I think what he probably meant to say if he had more time was, although I could be wrong, that free trade agreements are good if the world is an equal playing field. It's not an equal playing field and if the government wants to jump in the free trade world then don't expect the country to be better off at the end of it. Don't expect your icons to survive, don't expect your local industry to grow to support the large icons. Don't expect the closure of a Heavy Maintenance facility with 1000 jobs gone to not have a flow on effect of 5x as much in the community that supports that operation.
Manufacturing jobs have a multiplying effect. Hospitality jobs don't.
The benefit to Australia with justification that there is more low paid hospitality jobs created to counteract the loss in high paid skilled positions, the closure of most of Qantas's maintenance facilities being an excellent example, doesn't in my opinion justify a free trade.
I think what he probably meant to say if he had more time was, although I could be wrong, that free trade agreements are good if the world is an equal playing field. It's not an equal playing field and if the government wants to jump in the free trade world then don't expect the country to be better off at the end of it. Don't expect your icons to survive, don't expect your local industry to grow to support the large icons. Don't expect the closure of a Heavy Maintenance facility with 1000 jobs gone to not have a flow on effect of 5x as much in the community that supports that operation.
Manufacturing jobs have a multiplying effect. Hospitality jobs don't.
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Re: FF program.
IMHO: The QF gift to EK is for 10 years correct? So EK has 10 years to rape all westbound QF pax while honouring the QF FF program. Result: QF FF program on the international side has 10 years at most until oblivion and the point when EK refuses to honour QF FF points. The reality will be about half that time I think, because EK will have slaughtered what's left of QF's international customer loyalty and I can't see QF having any financial capability left to run connecting flights to code share. EK will own the routes in their entirety and QF international will be relegated to a few remaining southern Asia connections and possibly the US (but I doubt it) still. What QF does with the excess 380's will be anyone's guess.
IMHO: The QF gift to EK is for 10 years correct? So EK has 10 years to rape all westbound QF pax while honouring the QF FF program. Result: QF FF program on the international side has 10 years at most until oblivion and the point when EK refuses to honour QF FF points. The reality will be about half that time I think, because EK will have slaughtered what's left of QF's international customer loyalty and I can't see QF having any financial capability left to run connecting flights to code share. EK will own the routes in their entirety and QF international will be relegated to a few remaining southern Asia connections and possibly the US (but I doubt it) still. What QF does with the excess 380's will be anyone's guess.
Last edited by Lodown; 8th Sep 2012 at 04:15.
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No let's explore this a little:
1. Pays NO Corporate taxes
2. Pays NO Payroll taxes
3. Borrows money at state guaranteed rates
4. Advertising paid for by the UAE Government(UAE tourism)
5. Sydney Airport the most expensive in the Asia/Pacific region(MEL, BNE not far behind). Dubai Airport owned by UAE Government-how much does EK pay?
6. EK does not have to report to shareholders as a public company like QF
Just a start.....has unlimited rights into Australia where most countries exercise restraint to at least give their own a chance to compete...
BD7, you are possibly correct on some assertions. EK though pay a dividend to the UAE Government. The structure of fees/taxes paid may be different although they are paid. ...
1. Pays NO Corporate taxes
2. Pays NO Payroll taxes
3. Borrows money at state guaranteed rates
4. Advertising paid for by the UAE Government(UAE tourism)
5. Sydney Airport the most expensive in the Asia/Pacific region(MEL, BNE not far behind). Dubai Airport owned by UAE Government-how much does EK pay?
6. EK does not have to report to shareholders as a public company like QF
Just a start.....has unlimited rights into Australia where most countries exercise restraint to at least give their own a chance to compete...
BD7, you are possibly correct on some assertions. EK though pay a dividend to the UAE Government. The structure of fees/taxes paid may be different although they are paid. ...
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It is also worth remembering why EK exists! It is there to ensure the prosperity of the State!
Its only mandates were to operate without the need for ongoing government subsidies and to grow!
What it may not pay in taxes it makes up for as an enabler for the commercial prosperity for Dubai which has virtually no significant natural resources to speak of.
On the other hand Australia has enormous natural resources, and there is no mandate for QF other than to its shareholders... the Government sees QF (and all other airlines) as revenue generators and do not comprehend that with lower costs you get more visitors, bring more dollars to the local economy, creating more wealth which in turn generates more tax... but our Government wants to get paid up front with bugger all downstream vision!
It is not a level playing field, but it is a fact of life!!!
Its only mandates were to operate without the need for ongoing government subsidies and to grow!
What it may not pay in taxes it makes up for as an enabler for the commercial prosperity for Dubai which has virtually no significant natural resources to speak of.
On the other hand Australia has enormous natural resources, and there is no mandate for QF other than to its shareholders... the Government sees QF (and all other airlines) as revenue generators and do not comprehend that with lower costs you get more visitors, bring more dollars to the local economy, creating more wealth which in turn generates more tax... but our Government wants to get paid up front with bugger all downstream vision!
It is not a level playing field, but it is a fact of life!!!
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Hot off the Press!!!
In line with Emirates, all Qantas business/first class international long haul passengers will have Limos to and from the airport.
And apparently shortly there is to be an announcement that the 787-8s that were for Jetstar, in line with the premium product tie up with Emirates, WILL be flown domestically in Qantas colours to offer a high quality business product. Further more, the -9s will be for expansion by Qantas into Asia from 2016, providing connectivity to Emirates services to Europe through SIN,HK, BKK, SGN etc. This is from a very, very reliable source who hadn't been on the source!
Maybe, just maybe things might be starting to change for the better. Obviously Joyce has pissed Dixon and Co off (read into Singletons rant), so obviously no private equity deal on the horizon there! So now the focus on Asia will be about a premium product and loyal premium passengers not just a bunch of thong wearing lowbreeds!
(My guess is the A320s of the loss making Jetstar Int will be repainted Qantas and the interiors reconfigured to a premium product. Jetstar Domestic to remain strong Domestically as it does a great job with the leisure market and competes dominantly against Tiger and hampers any of Tigers grand expansion plans).
And apparently shortly there is to be an announcement that the 787-8s that were for Jetstar, in line with the premium product tie up with Emirates, WILL be flown domestically in Qantas colours to offer a high quality business product. Further more, the -9s will be for expansion by Qantas into Asia from 2016, providing connectivity to Emirates services to Europe through SIN,HK, BKK, SGN etc. This is from a very, very reliable source who hadn't been on the source!
Maybe, just maybe things might be starting to change for the better. Obviously Joyce has pissed Dixon and Co off (read into Singletons rant), so obviously no private equity deal on the horizon there! So now the focus on Asia will be about a premium product and loyal premium passengers not just a bunch of thong wearing lowbreeds!
(My guess is the A320s of the loss making Jetstar Int will be repainted Qantas and the interiors reconfigured to a premium product. Jetstar Domestic to remain strong Domestically as it does a great job with the leisure market and competes dominantly against Tiger and hampers any of Tigers grand expansion plans).
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EK will want, and will get ,product equivalence end to end. They would not get into the deal unless it was. Q will be flying to places domestically that have not seen a red tail in a while hence the announced GC Tassie and now the HTI rumours.
apparently shortly there is to be an announcement that the 787-8s that were for Jetstar, in line with the premium product tie up with Emirates, WILL be flown domestically in Qantas colours
. CBR and CNS one stop to all those EK destinations would be brilliant.The 787 is really too good too waste on domestic markets.
The host country should get free right of return, if EK lands 500 seats in an Australian port, an Australian airline gets 500 seats in their port. 1 for 1, not 109 per week vs 14. If the demand is there, both airlines can grow concurrently.
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with the loss of frankfurt we need 230 less cabin crew in oz.
depending on layover in dbx not sure about change in A380 numbers.
less london based crew needed with shorter LHR-DBX-LHR compared with long LHR-SIN-LHR. no idea what that reduction will be but with a fairly rapid turnover in the base hopefully no-one gets shafted.
anyone know what other flights are getting the chop from oz?
depending on layover in dbx not sure about change in A380 numbers.
less london based crew needed with shorter LHR-DBX-LHR compared with long LHR-SIN-LHR. no idea what that reduction will be but with a fairly rapid turnover in the base hopefully no-one gets shafted.
anyone know what other flights are getting the chop from oz?
Last edited by indamiddle; 8th Sep 2012 at 09:45.
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travel first or biz with QF then get the real deal on EK
EK must be rubbing their hands together, PAX on a plate forced to taste the delights, then expected to fly again L'haul with the AJ team !! what planet are those PAX from again ? in ya dreams paddy!!!
Half of the posts on this thread assume that QF will cancel Flights and not replace them with new destinations. For this partnership to be beneficial to both parties they will need to operate to mainly different destinations ( expand both networks) . Ie earn points on EK flying through to Paris, and then later on spend those points with QF flying through to Queenstown or Bangkok. If they both operate to the same places then obviously EK will eat QF for breakfast.....but that will have been thought of. As long as QF have more International departures in 2 yrs time than they do now, then it will be a win, people will be burning EK points on the new destinations. I think many people forget that this will allow much better utilization of EK heavies while still providing the same (or better) route structure.
It won't be the end of QF International, it will allow it to expand.
That's my prediction anyway.
It won't be the end of QF International, it will allow it to expand.
That's my prediction anyway.
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Axe to Swing
10,000 QF staff to get the chop once the deal is approved....Joyce yet to make this know but upper management have been told a big knife to cut thru all departments to improve the bottom line...
Framer, to date we know that:
PER - SIN is gone
ADL - SIN is gone
BNE - SIN is gone
SYD - BKK is gone
SYD - SIN - FRA is gone
That's got to be another 200 pilot jobs surplus to requirements plus whatever the removal of S/Os on DXB - LHR will allow.
New flying announced - NONE! There is no upside to this for staff and no chance of expansion. QANTAS is simply becoming a travel agency selling tickets on other airlines' aircraft. I truly wish it weren't so but I just can't see your vision becoming reality.
PER - SIN is gone
ADL - SIN is gone
BNE - SIN is gone
SYD - BKK is gone
SYD - SIN - FRA is gone
That's got to be another 200 pilot jobs surplus to requirements plus whatever the removal of S/Os on DXB - LHR will allow.
New flying announced - NONE! There is no upside to this for staff and no chance of expansion. QANTAS is simply becoming a travel agency selling tickets on other airlines' aircraft. I truly wish it weren't so but I just can't see your vision becoming reality.