5th September QF Announcement
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So I'm guessing you haven't been to Dubai for a while Teresa?
Who wants to go to Dubai? The millions of travelers that want really easy access to Europe and Africa. This is a very good move by QF, it just should have been done many years ago.
I can't believe I'm saying this , but well done Joyce et al. Ouch that hurt!!
Who wants to go to Dubai? The millions of travelers that want really easy access to Europe and Africa. This is a very good move by QF, it just should have been done many years ago.
I can't believe I'm saying this , but well done Joyce et al. Ouch that hurt!!
Interesting, just seen an internal communication at Jetstar stating that this tie up brings with it 'exciting' code share opportunities between Jetstar and Emirates that are being discussed now and will be announced as part of this deal.
Appears all these rumours of Emirates wanting to exclude Jetstar may just be wishful thinking.
Appears all these rumours of Emirates wanting to exclude Jetstar may just be wishful thinking.
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Qantas deal a short-term winner but long-term outlook problematic
British Airways seeks new strategic partner after Qantas signs Emirates deal - Yahoo! Finance UK
Yes and No
I don't see this deal as clear cut as it sounded yesterday....... couple this with Singo's comments last night, the lack of involvement in the media from Leigh Clifford..
As this is a rumour network.... I have heard some strong rumours that Mr Clifford will be stepping down at the AGM..... can't prove it yet, but coming from some reliable sources who have been reliable in the past. I have also herd that AJ is fast running out of friends at board level.... make of that what you want..
I doubt BA are happy with the announcement yesterday either, they will find it tough going it alone... If anyone has heard similar, would be interested to compare notes...
certainly interesting times....
also..
I doubt Canberra will be as easy to get along with considering the embarrassment caused by AJs (LCs) decision to ground the airline last year...
Very possible they have made a lot of sleeping enemies within the union ranks buried deep in the Canberra vault.
This is a very good move by QF
Qantas deal a short-term winner but long-term outlook problematic
September 06, 2012 1:05PM
QANTAS will face a tough battle to win Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) approval of its Emirates joint venture, which will control over 50 per cent of traffic between Australia and Europe and effectively take one competitor out of the market.
ACCC chief Rod Sims told The Australian that it was early days yet in the regulator’s consideration but “obviously we will look very closely at any deal which sees Emirates fares move closer to the higher Qantas fares”.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
September 06, 2012 1:05PM
QANTAS will face a tough battle to win Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) approval of its Emirates joint venture, which will control over 50 per cent of traffic between Australia and Europe and effectively take one competitor out of the market.
ACCC chief Rod Sims told The Australian that it was early days yet in the regulator’s consideration but “obviously we will look very closely at any deal which sees Emirates fares move closer to the higher Qantas fares”.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
As this is a rumour network.... I have heard some strong rumours that Mr Clifford will be stepping down at the AGM..... can't prove it yet, but coming from some reliable sources who have been reliable in the past. I have also herd that AJ is fast running out of friends at board level.... make of that what you want..
I doubt BA are happy with the announcement yesterday either, they will find it tough going it alone... If anyone has heard similar, would be interested to compare notes...
certainly interesting times....
also..
I doubt Canberra will be as easy to get along with considering the embarrassment caused by AJs (LCs) decision to ground the airline last year...
Very possible they have made a lot of sleeping enemies within the union ranks buried deep in the Canberra vault.
Interesting article regarding the alliance and costs per pax ex LHR & FRA via Asia v ME,
Read more: Emirates pact will help stem Qantas losses
The Qantas alliance with Emirates will unambiguously improve its bottom line compared to a world without it, as is reflected in the 13 per cent lift in the share price over the past 24 hours or so.
The “if you can't beat 'em, join 'em”, strategy is an admission that the
airline can't compete with Emirates on price (or costs), product and network footprint in Europe.
It's also a realisation that Qantas had to do something radical to stop the bleeding of its international business.
Departure taxes
The other seemingly forgotten benefit of the Emirates alliance - and it's
material - is the move means Qantas and its passengers will pay lower departure taxes to UK and German government authorities.
The UK departure tax, called the air passenger duty (APD), is higher for UK flights departing for Australia that hub through Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok than for flights that hub through Dubai when passengers stay at the hub point for 24 hours or more, which is true for a high percentage of passengers.
This difference is because the APD rate, quite unfairly for Qantas, is based on the distance travelled between the UK and the port where the aircraft lands. The longer the distance the higher the rate that is paid.
Qantas was paying an APD of 92 pounds ($142) for economy class passengers and 184 pounds ($285) for premium economy, business and first-class passengers using the Singapore hub.
By hubbing through Dubai, the rate paid by Qantas passengers falls to 65
Pound Stirling and 130 Pound Stirling for economy and other passengers
respectively.
The variance between these rates of tax can be the difference between a
profit and a loss on some international routes.
The German authorities currently impose an Air Travel Tax that is 45 euros ($55) for travel to Australia via Singapore and 25 euros ($31) for travel to Australia via the Middle East. Qantas will save 25 euros per passenger for a large percentage of passengers immediately by hubbing through Dubai rather than Singapore.
The “if you can't beat 'em, join 'em”, strategy is an admission that the
airline can't compete with Emirates on price (or costs), product and network footprint in Europe.
It's also a realisation that Qantas had to do something radical to stop the bleeding of its international business.
Departure taxes
The other seemingly forgotten benefit of the Emirates alliance - and it's
material - is the move means Qantas and its passengers will pay lower departure taxes to UK and German government authorities.
The UK departure tax, called the air passenger duty (APD), is higher for UK flights departing for Australia that hub through Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok than for flights that hub through Dubai when passengers stay at the hub point for 24 hours or more, which is true for a high percentage of passengers.
This difference is because the APD rate, quite unfairly for Qantas, is based on the distance travelled between the UK and the port where the aircraft lands. The longer the distance the higher the rate that is paid.
Qantas was paying an APD of 92 pounds ($142) for economy class passengers and 184 pounds ($285) for premium economy, business and first-class passengers using the Singapore hub.
By hubbing through Dubai, the rate paid by Qantas passengers falls to 65
Pound Stirling and 130 Pound Stirling for economy and other passengers
respectively.
The variance between these rates of tax can be the difference between a
profit and a loss on some international routes.
The German authorities currently impose an Air Travel Tax that is 45 euros ($55) for travel to Australia via Singapore and 25 euros ($31) for travel to Australia via the Middle East. Qantas will save 25 euros per passenger for a large percentage of passengers immediately by hubbing through Dubai rather than Singapore.
Read more: Emirates pact will help stem Qantas losses
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Now this - Qantas moves one step closer to junk status
Further to my previous comment
The plot thickens....
Qantas moves one step closer to junk status
Qantas has had its credit rating cut to the lowest investment grade by Standard & Poor’s after the airline yesterday struck a 10-year alliance with Emirates to turn around losses on international routes.
Qantas’s debt grade was lowered by one level to BBB- with a stable outlook, according to the ratings company.
‘‘Qantas’s business risk profile has weakened, because of the structural pressures affecting the airline’s international business,’’ S&P analyst May Zhong said. ‘‘Persistent pressures have eroded Qantas’s market share and inflicted losses on the airline’s international operations in the past few years.’’
Qantas yesterday announced a revenue and cost-sharing tie- up with Emirates, the world’s largest carrier by international passenger traffic, to turn around $450 million of annual losses on its international routes.
Advertisement
The airline last month reported its first annual loss for the group since it was sold by the government in 1995.
Qantas holds a Baa3 grade from Moody’s Investors Service, also the lowest investment grade ranking. The carrier is one of just two airlines worldwide, with Southwest Airlines, to be judged investment grade by two separate rating companies
Read more: Qantas moves one step closer to junk status
Qantas has had its credit rating cut to the lowest investment grade by Standard & Poor’s after the airline yesterday struck a 10-year alliance with Emirates to turn around losses on international routes.
Qantas’s debt grade was lowered by one level to BBB- with a stable outlook, according to the ratings company.
‘‘Qantas’s business risk profile has weakened, because of the structural pressures affecting the airline’s international business,’’ S&P analyst May Zhong said. ‘‘Persistent pressures have eroded Qantas’s market share and inflicted losses on the airline’s international operations in the past few years.’’
Qantas yesterday announced a revenue and cost-sharing tie- up with Emirates, the world’s largest carrier by international passenger traffic, to turn around $450 million of annual losses on its international routes.
Advertisement
The airline last month reported its first annual loss for the group since it was sold by the government in 1995.
Qantas holds a Baa3 grade from Moody’s Investors Service, also the lowest investment grade ranking. The carrier is one of just two airlines worldwide, with Southwest Airlines, to be judged investment grade by two separate rating companies
Read more: Qantas moves one step closer to junk status
I read an article over breakfast this morning which said pretty close to
"Tim Clark has ruled out putting any of his passengers on Jetstar". I'm trying to find it, as soon as I do, I'll post it.
The basic point of the article was that Jetstar would not be involved with ek in any way.
It's a sandilands article but for some reason when I click on the link it goes to a different article. But says emirates have refused to put any pax on jetstar
"Tim Clark has ruled out putting any of his passengers on Jetstar". I'm trying to find it, as soon as I do, I'll post it.
The basic point of the article was that Jetstar would not be involved with ek in any way.
It's a sandilands article but for some reason when I click on the link it goes to a different article. But says emirates have refused to put any pax on jetstar
Last edited by goodonyamate; 7th Sep 2012 at 08:07. Reason: Found it but can't post it.....stupid iPad
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TIMA9X,
Seems the investment community is only just starting to catch on to reality by the sounds of things? I think Junk Status is actually a compliment considering what the little nimrod has done to the company. They should name it 'brown status'.
Seems the investment community is only just starting to catch on to reality by the sounds of things? I think Junk Status is actually a compliment considering what the little nimrod has done to the company. They should name it 'brown status'.
Last edited by gobbledock; 7th Sep 2012 at 08:04.
Qantas deal a short-term winner but long-term outlook problematic
September 06, 2012 1:05PM
QANTAS will face a tough battle to win Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) approval of its Emirates joint venture, which will control over 50 per cent of traffic between Australia and Europe and effectively take one competitor out of the market.
ACCC chief Rod Sims told The Australian that it was early days yet in the regulator’s consideration but “obviously we will look very closely at any deal which sees Emirates fares move closer to the higher Qantas fares”.
September 06, 2012 1:05PM
QANTAS will face a tough battle to win Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) approval of its Emirates joint venture, which will control over 50 per cent of traffic between Australia and Europe and effectively take one competitor out of the market.
ACCC chief Rod Sims told The Australian that it was early days yet in the regulator’s consideration but “obviously we will look very closely at any deal which sees Emirates fares move closer to the higher Qantas fares”.
That actually is a very interesting statement from the ACCC chief. Note he does not appear interested in the competition aspects of the deal. Only that the little Aussie battlers, out there in the Labor heartland, can still get cheap fares to Europe. A much easier thing to reassure the regulator about, I would think. As in "of course this new alliance will actually lower Qantas' cost base and allow us to be more competitive, hence lowering our fares". [Well, maybe, fingers crossed].
AJ's blustering all this year can now be seen in a new light. Talking up the supposed losses in longhaul, which have magically risen from $100M, to $240M to $420M to whatever number you want to pluck, has been solely to soften up the ACCC to make the case that this deal must go ahead.
Similarly, the 'falling overseas market share' argument is also all about priming the ACCC case, to make it easier to argue that Qantas must have this alliance, or very bad things will happen to politician's perks. The 'longhaul is a basket case' spruiking is all about that, nothing more.
Given the PR spin that will now gush forth, sounding just like the above [watch the weekend papers] , it will be a done deal. Olivia's no doubt already onto it. Get that rubber stamp ready.
Last edited by Captain Gidday; 7th Sep 2012 at 08:25.
short flights long nights
goodonyamate..I think this is the article
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AJ's blustering all this year can now be seen in a new light. Talking up the supposed losses in longhaul, which have magically risen from $100M, to $240M to $420M to whatever number you want to pluck, has been solely to soften up the ACCC to make the case that this deal must go ahead.
For me, it's the current image problem that Qantas carries in the public's eye, which is the real problem. AJ and LC have damaged that to the point it can't be repaired whilst they are running the show... singo touches on this here..
Last edited by TIMA9X; 7th Sep 2012 at 08:46.
short flights long nights
Good remarks from Singleton...except for the the free fuel bit
The other seemingly forgotten benefit of the Emirates alliance - and it's
material - is the move means Qantas and its passengers will pay lower departure taxes to UK and German government authorities.
The UK departure tax, called the air passenger duty (APD), is higher for UK flights departing for Australia that hub through Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok than for flights that hub through Dubai when passengers stay at the hub point for 24 hours or more, which is true for a high percentage of passengers.
material - is the move means Qantas and its passengers will pay lower departure taxes to UK and German government authorities.
The UK departure tax, called the air passenger duty (APD), is higher for UK flights departing for Australia that hub through Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok than for flights that hub through Dubai when passengers stay at the hub point for 24 hours or more, which is true for a high percentage of passengers.
See here.
I'm surprised that Tony Webber made this error as he is very astute about airline finance. One saving that will be made for the passengers is the European emissions tax which will be significantly reduced for flights out of DXB in comparison with SIN.
Last edited by Going Boeing; 7th Sep 2012 at 09:39.
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This move by Singleton is not an accident and must be strategic given the timing. Most significant aspect was he almost admitted cashing up for an event and guess we have to now just sit and wait for it all to unfold.
Still think ASIC should be all over this waiting with whatever they need.
Still think ASIC should be all over this waiting with whatever they need.
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Like all of us John Singleton is entitled to his opinion. But..Petrol???? He needs to do some research and on the "free Petrol", that is simply wrong.
Also his comments on the labour market. He believes that the likes of EK should perhaps pay a tax to compensate for QF's high labour costs. It is a global market and QF needs to compete, he cannot expect the world to make concessions to QF just because another company operates in it's backyard.
The other stale argument that he mentioned is the "cheap labour". It is all relative and the Dubai staff would see their opportunity to earn a living too, no income tax, accommodation provided for, medical subsidy and generally a whole lot more money that they would earn in their own country.
What he does not mention either is that EK staff in the EK network, are paid in accordance with the awards or labour laws of those countries, including Australia.
Y
Also his comments on the labour market. He believes that the likes of EK should perhaps pay a tax to compensate for QF's high labour costs. It is a global market and QF needs to compete, he cannot expect the world to make concessions to QF just because another company operates in it's backyard.
The other stale argument that he mentioned is the "cheap labour". It is all relative and the Dubai staff would see their opportunity to earn a living too, no income tax, accommodation provided for, medical subsidy and generally a whole lot more money that they would earn in their own country.
What he does not mention either is that EK staff in the EK network, are paid in accordance with the awards or labour laws of those countries, including Australia.
Y
short flights long nights
Of those 14 flights a day, only 2 will be QF flights, the rest will be EK flights with a Qantas code share. AJ sought of 'glossed' over that little fact in his speech.
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This link is the first part of the John Singleton interview on the Switzer report Sky news last Thursday, (apologies, I forgot to post, busy Friday) very interesting to listen to.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 8th Sep 2012 at 06:34.