5th September QF Announcement

[Mstr Caution]

That's it. Like I've been saying for the last few days. EK have only been interested in the pot of gold which is QF Frequent Flyer.

Excluding the by product of pilot establishment numbers within Qantas. The one big ticket item is the product offering within Europe. Qantas has been constrained operating to Heathrow & Franfurt only.

The next best thing for Qantas CUSTOMERS, if Qantas couldn't offer a half decent European network itself. They had to get into bed within an airline that does.

[AEROMEDIC]

Qantas is now competitive with Virgin/SIA.

Look how they got there.... and what they will be doing soon. The maintenance will be slowly but surely farmed off to Emirates. The spin will be "needs of business.... no capability in Australia (which they will ensure by closing down Avalon and, in time, Brisbane).

It's a sad testimony to "success" and Joyce and co. won't stop there either.
Pilots will be hit along with cabin staff as cheaper "alternatives" emerge.

Who is it that can say that they have immunity from the changes that will subtly take place.

There may be good things for the customers in flight routing and available destinations, but there is a price to pay in the end. The price won't be paid by customers, it'll be paid by Qantas employees in all classifications.

[QF94]

Um, I think you misunderstand how FF points work. When a Qantas frequent-flyer spends points on an Emirates flight, that means CASH transfers out of the Qantas Frequent Flyer program and into the hands of Emirates. It's just like selling a seat, except that now Qantas does the marketing and administers the program; Emirates gets the money and more people in their planes.

That's a two-way street. Passengers will be able to earn and redeem points on both QANTAS and Emirates, so my QANTAS FF newsletter tells me as of 5 minutes ago.

[QF94]

There may be good things for the customers in flight routing and available destinations, but there is a price to pay in the end. The price won't be paid by customers, it'll be paid by Qantas employees in all classifications.

And not just QANTAS employees. There's the knock-on effect from out of work employees that can't afford to keep up their lifestyle, or move overseas where the work is, ultimately affecting other businesses here.

[TIMA9X]

Always good to watch the live announcements again at a later time, the body language for me shows AJ was "tickled pink" that he was actually making the announcement. For me, the deal makes sense, well sort of, when I think about it, there was not many other alternatives left for them at Q..

I can't help thinking, all this was inspired by JB over at Virgin. Today's announcement was the first sort of positive news since AJ took control. It took him four years to come up with this plan... err, "can't beat them, join them" out of desperation.. I sensed the relief with the body language displayed by AJ in this clip....

[Livs Hairdresser]

So up until now QF's last few remaining FFs have been continuing to fly Qantas to either accumulate more points or use the points they've earned. Now the handcuffs are off and they can burn those points on EK, with a commensurate amount of revenue leaving the QF group. What percentage of those FFs will never fly Qantas again? In fact, unless their destination is London, QF is forcing them to fly EK. Why would they even bother flying Qantas from Oz to Dubai when it would be much more seamless to go EK all the way.

QF94, I hear what you're saying about it being a 2 way street. The only problem is that the EK network dwarfs the QF network, and even more so day by day. Who will be getting the lion's share of the FF revenue? Will it be EK carrying Qantas FFs on ULH sectors, or Qantas carrying EK FFs on the odd short domestic hop? Blind Freddy can see that this agreement is a free kick for Emirates and I honestly don't see how we can ever recover from it.

[Baileys]

OK so it's just another typical Australian corporate sell out. QF international is gone.

[buttmonkey1]

Tim Clarks body language was interesting at 1:50,
like his hand had been soiled. Totally understandable.

[Mstr Caution]

TIMA9X:

Wouldn't be like AJ to F&#$ up an announcement would it !!

At 4:21 in the video AJ announces a "new era" with 14 daily QANTAS operated services from ADL, BNE, MEL, PER & SYD to Dubai.

He then corrects himself to "codeshare" services.

So, AJ's whats the real plan?

[goodonyamate]

From Joyces speech.....

"qantas will operate 2 A-tree 80 services a day to terminal tree, the only terminal in the world dedicated to the A-tree 80, meaning its just one stop to turty tree european destinations"

Must suck to be Joyces speech writer. I bet he/she also wishes we had the triple 7 or the 747-8. Anyone think they might have seen a good opportunity to take the piss?

So......on these increased qantas services to asia. Qantas 787-8??

[TIMA9X]

At 4:21 in the video AJ announces a "new era" with 14 daily QANTAS operated services from ADL, BNE, MEL, PER & SYD to Dubai.

He then corrects himself to "codeshare" services.

So, AJ's whats the real plan?

Spot on mate.... yeah, it appears AJ doesn't quite have Tim Clark's plan in his head yet..

[Stalins ugly Brother]

This "deal" is about FF points, frequent and business travellers and a quality product with a global reach.

This deal has nothing to do with Jetstar and I bet any attempts by Joyce to push Jetstar down the throats of Emirates passengers will result in the deal being terminated.

God knows our passengers aren't tolerating it anymore and have left in droves.

I think this could be the end of the Jetstar empire, however I believe the 787s will be based with Qantas colours in Singapore on a stand alone contract. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Jetstar Int A320s re-painted in QF colours flown by the Jetsar guys.

As I said I can possibly see the end of Jetstar, but not the end of their staff and contract agreements.

I think the MOU needs to be widened quickly!

[SOPS]

EK is all about Brand, Brand, Brand...and they protect it like a lioness protects her cubs. There is no way they will have anything to do with Jetstar...and I would think that TC would have already made that clear.

[ferris]

How much do they pay this guy?

It does make you wonder.

Check this thread, from 2009 http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...t-why-not.html and my contribution

What, exactly, did Dixon do over the last few years to defend QF and "it's turf"? Does Qf even carry as many people out of oz now as the ME carriers? I can't see how, when you count EK, etihad, and the ever expanding Qatar. Sure, Qf cannot compete with the on-carriage to the large networks beyond the ME, but what was done to try and carry the pax at least to the ME hubs? An early alliance with EK would've been genius, but why wasn't some forward thinking employed by the extremely highly paid Qf managers to stem the onslaught (an early ETD or QR agreement?) Qf carries them to the ME hub, then the partner from there thru the extensive network beyond.

Too much SY-LHR dinosaur thinking? Where does it leave Qf? Looking like a real one trick (orange) pony, now.

I'll do the job for less, say, 4 million.

Although I think this move is the right one, given the state QF has been driven into, I think the ramifications for QF employees are all bad. Everyone keeps assuming that these QF flights to/from DXB are going to be operated by QF pilots. The engineers appear to see the writing on the wall.

[sierra5913]

FAQ's

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

FREQUENT FLYER
1. Can I earn points on all Emirates and Qantas flights?

Qantas Frequent Flyers can earn points on all Emirates flights. Emirates Skywards
members can earn points on Qantas international flights and domestic sectors of an
international trip.

2. Can I use points to redeem award flights on Emirates and Qantas flights?

Yes, Qantas Frequent Flyers and Emirates Skywards members will be able to use
their points (or miles) on either network.

3. Can I use my Qantas Frequent Flyer points on Emirates flights now?

No. The frequent flyer agreement between Emirates and Qantas won’t take effect
until the partnership commences in 2013 subject to regulatory approval.

4. Will my tier status be recognised if I’m flying on an Emirates service?
Yes. Both Qantas and Emirates will recognise members of each others frequent flyer
programs throughout the entire journey, regardless of which airline you are flying
with.


FLIGHT NETWORK
5. Will Qantas still fly to Asia?

Yes. Previously our services to Singapore and Hong Kong were timed to optimise
travel through to Europe. We will retime our existing services to Singapore and Hong
Kong offering an improved schedule dedicated to better meet the needs of the Asia
market.

6. Will Qantas still fly to London?

Yes. Qantas will fly daily from both Sydney and Melbourne to London via the global
gateway of Dubai. The new partnership will also allow us to codeshare flights from
Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth directly to Dubai.

BAGGAGE
8. Will there be any differences between baggage policies on Emirates and
Qantas?

No. The baggage policy on all codeshare flights will be the same on both airlines as
part of creating a seamless customer experience.

9. Will frequent flyers be offered additional checked baggage allowances?

Yes. Qantas Frequent Flyers and Qantas Club Members will continue to benefit from
extra allowances according to their membership status and cabin travelled when
travelling on both Qantas and Emirates.

TICKETING
10. How do I book a flight from Australia to Dubai on Qantas and then from
Dubai to Europe on Emirates?

Customers will be able to book flights with either carrier via the Emirates or Qantas
website or through their travel agent, depending on which option and flight schedule
suits them best.

11. If I buy a ticket on qantas.com how will I know who I’ll ultimately be flying
with?

The airline that you will be flying with will be confirmed during the booking process
as currently occurs.

12. What does this mean if I am flying internationally before April 2013?

There is no change, no matter where you are flying.

13. If I am a Qantas customer flying internationally from April 2013 onwards,
what does this mean for my travel?

If you are flying to North or South America, South Africa, Japan, Bangkok, as well as
New Zealand, The Philippines, Jakarta, Hawaii, China or other Qantas codeshare
destinations you are not affected at all by these announcements.
If you are flying to Singapore or Hong Kong, your flights may have a different
departure and arrival time however you will still travel on the same day. We will
advise you directly of any time changes to your itinerary.
If you are travelling to the UK or Europe from April 2013, your flight will operate via
Dubai and then onward to your destination, subject to regulatory approval. Options will also be available for customers who would still like to travel via
Singapore or Hong Kong.

14. I have a flight booked after April 2013 for travel to London – what happens
to my booking?

Your travel to London will remain confirmed. Qantas will contact you to discuss your choice of transit options.

15. What if I want to transit through Asia?

Qantas and its codeshare partners will continue to offer a range of transit options throughout Asia.

17. I’m booked to fly to Singapore/Hong Kong in May and specifically wantedthe A380 – how will I be impacted?

Qantas will continue to operate A380 services to Hong Kong on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. A380 flights that operated to Singapore will now operate to Dubai and onwards to London subject to regulatory approval. Customers booked on Singapore A380 services will be contacted by Qantas.

DUBAI AIRPORT EXPERIENCE
19. As a Qantas First or Business customer will I have priority check-in in Dubai?

Yes. Qantas First and Business customers, Platinum One, Platinum and Gold
Frequent Flyer members will have access to Emirates’ dedicated check-in counters at
Dubai Airport.

LOUNGE ACCESS
22. If I choose to fly with Emirates from Australia to Dubai, can I still use the
Qantas lounge at my departing airport in Australia?

Yes. If your class of travel or Frequent Flyer status gives you lounge access and both
lounges are available, you will be welcome in either the Qantas or Emirates Lounge.

23. As a Qantas Club member will I have access to Emirates lounges worldwide?

If you are travelling on Qantas, your lounge access will remain unchanged. If you are
flying with Emirates you will have access to the Emirates lounge in Dubai.

[Higs]

I dont work for Qantas and as an outsider. WTF??? QF is going down the freeway at 120KPH the wrong way!!!!
They move their Europe/Asia hub from Singapore (stable goverment, Jetstar Asia base & more importantly stable geo-political location) to Dubai (stable goverment with declining resources and a very unstable geo-political location).
I dont know what stuff you are smoking but Singapore Airlines are laughing their asses off at such self destruction.
Universities should use this as an example of what not to do...

[hotnhigh]

Lets get real, this has nothing to do with any long term solution to qantas' problem.
Alan Joyce and the board have yet again displayed any lack of vision for the airline. Their sole purpose is to have a short term bounce so that they can make some cash and get out.
IN ONE YEAR QANTAS OUTSOURCES 60% OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE FLYING.
How? HKG-LHR, BKK-LHR landing slots gifted to Emirates. FRA flights traded for zero.
What now if ek create a deal where qf passengers get complimentary membership of ek's scheme and a small amount of 'bonus' points in their account whenever they travel on ek burning qf points? Eventually no qf points but another passenger who has now changed carriers with no future return to qf beyond this point.
And what a great deal for the tasman. Emirates must get some great rates for hotels on both sides of the ditch to be able to kill off companies with employees living in the respective cities that will now be serviced almost exclusively by ek.
And all of this, done against a backdrop of a calamitous employee/employer relationship where true leadership could have produced a better outcome wrt the future of qf. Anything was possible, but that required honesty and integrity.
Tragic.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Liv's Hairdresser

So up until now QF's last few remaining FFs have been continuing to fly Qantas to either accumulate more points or use the points they've earned. Now the handcuffs are off and they can burn those points on EK, with a commensurate amount of revenue leaving the QF group. What percentage of those FFs will never fly Qantas again? In fact, unless their destination is London, QF is forcing them to fly EK. Why would they even bother flying Qantas from Oz to Dubai when it would be much more seamless to go EK all the way.

QF94, I hear what you're saying about it being a 2 way street. The only problem is that the EK network dwarfs the QF network, and even more so day by day. Who will be getting the lion's share of the FF revenue? Will it be EK carrying Qantas FFs on ULH sectors, or Qantas carrying EK FFs on the odd short domestic hop? Blind Freddy can see that this agreement is a free kick for Emirates and I honestly don't see how we can ever recover from it.

Most of those points are earned by people flying for business on tickets paid for by the business. Qantas buys wholesale seats from EK and pays that price in exchange for FF points earned on higher margin domestic flights. That's a win for QF and a smaller win for EK.

Even better for QF though are the points earned via various credit cards or merchants. Every point costs the merchant 1c or thereabouts. Let's say it takes 128,000 points return to Heathrow. That's $1,280 that has been paid via the merchants. Pretty much guaranteed QF pay EK less than that for a seat. Pure profit, all for keeping some electronic records about how many miles you fly.

And the best part is QF get the money as soon as those points are laoded into your QF FF account. So those 128,000 points earn QF $1,280 up front on which they earn interest until you take your flight.

Now think of all the unused points out there. Muppet analysts have always counted that as a liability to QF instead of being an asset. to make the maths easy let's say there are 1 billion FF points unclaimed (last I heard there were closer to 60bn FF outstanding but let's go with 1bn to make numbers easy). And let's say 500 million of them are from partner programs. That's $5 million QF have got for nothing.

Let's assume corporate borrowing rates are 10% overall. Pay that $5M off and you are saving $500K a year on money other people have given you.

Multiply that by 60 and there's a $30M annual pot of gold you didn't pay a cent for.

And even better, approx 30% of them expire without being redeemed so of out $5M you get to keep $1.67M and give away absolutely nothing.

Multiply that one by 60 and there's $18M free cash into your account.

Sweet.

Better and better it gets - as more and more companies use the partner program as their own loyalty program the number of points QF banks increases and the number that expire worthless but paid for increases as well.

And that's (partly) why the FF Program is so profitable to QF.

[Taildragger67]

Not sure of the exact schedule but I am pretty sure that Qantas do a daily to LHR through Singapore and Bangkok and also up to Frankfurt so changing to just a daily from SYD and MEL to LHR seems like a capacity downsize to me.

Qantas canned BKK-LHR some months ago, along with HKG-LHR; QF currently flies daily SYD-SIN-LHR and MEL-SIN-LHR; also SYD-SIN-FRA.

The effect of this announcement is to replace SIN in the above LHR rotations with DXB (so no capacity difference Aus-LHR), and to can SIN-FRA (so 100% loss of capacity). So all flights Aus-SIN will be terminators.

[Livs Hairdresser]

Romulus,
The majority of what you've outlined is already in place now, without the Emirates deal. What I was trying to allude to in my previous post was that for this deal to be a win for QF, the number of EK FF points redeemed on QF services has to exceed the number of QF FF points redeemed on EK services.

Given the size of the EK network compared to the ever dwindling QF network I can't possibly see how QF management ever thought this might be a possibility.