5th September QF Announcement
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The elephant in the room is the fares. QF charge minimum $9,192 business Sydney to London return (sample date 7 January, return February). If you take QF1 -vv- you pay up to $16,383. Which presumably is what Government pays QF to carry its employees, as no one else would be mad enough to pay this much!
Emirates charge a flat $7,987.24, same dates.
When the new deal kicks in, QF flyers will presumably have a choice - take QF metal or QF coded EK flights, pay whatever the 'new' fare will be, and get Status Credits on QF.
Or book and pay with EK, at 'their' flight cost (at least $1195 cheaper, and as much as $8,000 cheaper against the current QF1 top fare) and presumably earn points and SC on Skywards.
Whatever happens, QF can't maintain their ridiculously expensive fares and you can be sure the ACCC will want to ensure EK and QF don't milk this deal to the detriment of the customer.
Emirates charge a flat $7,987.24, same dates.
When the new deal kicks in, QF flyers will presumably have a choice - take QF metal or QF coded EK flights, pay whatever the 'new' fare will be, and get Status Credits on QF.
Or book and pay with EK, at 'their' flight cost (at least $1195 cheaper, and as much as $8,000 cheaper against the current QF1 top fare) and presumably earn points and SC on Skywards.
Whatever happens, QF can't maintain their ridiculously expensive fares and you can be sure the ACCC will want to ensure EK and QF don't milk this deal to the detriment of the customer.
So now I have more incentive to book emirates, get my points at woolies and the odd flight to boost them up.
The frequent fliers will be happy, most of them flew qantas to keep the status points etc going, now they don't have to.
The frequent fliers will be happy, most of them flew qantas to keep the status points etc going, now they don't have to.
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Tim Clark's interviews
There was one particular comment in the interviews given by Tim Clark that is particularly interesting.... "I can see Qantas flying their own metal over Dubai"
Meaning Qantas NEED to fly their own metal over Dubai. At least on the premier routes. Otherwise I might just as well fly EK!
One CEO gets it, the other CEO is copying someone else's homework.
John Borghetti needed to build a global airline presence and to do this quickly by minimising capital was to build the alliances he has... smart!!!
Joyce seems to be covering Borghetti's move.... to build a global airline network!... Ooohh did someone say Qantas already had a global network????
The EK deal may offer some short term gain! Dubai is a good move, but long term Qantas will need to do more... "fly their own metal over Dubai".. at least to Heathrow and a few other key destinations.... maybe even an opportunity for a JQ base once JXB opens... JXB would offer enormous potential for Qantas and Tim Clark knows it, so tie them up now!
Meaning Qantas NEED to fly their own metal over Dubai. At least on the premier routes. Otherwise I might just as well fly EK!
One CEO gets it, the other CEO is copying someone else's homework.
John Borghetti needed to build a global airline presence and to do this quickly by minimising capital was to build the alliances he has... smart!!!
Joyce seems to be covering Borghetti's move.... to build a global airline network!... Ooohh did someone say Qantas already had a global network????
The EK deal may offer some short term gain! Dubai is a good move, but long term Qantas will need to do more... "fly their own metal over Dubai".. at least to Heathrow and a few other key destinations.... maybe even an opportunity for a JQ base once JXB opens... JXB would offer enormous potential for Qantas and Tim Clark knows it, so tie them up now!
Gotta love the comment by AJ regarding DXB Terminal 3
I'm sure 2 x QF A380's will prove a BIG presence amongst 90 x EK A380's and 122 x EK 777's.
It will only further provide visible proof indicating QF's irrelevance in this "agreement"
"Qantas and Emirates will be the only airlines in the Terminal, so we'll have a BIG Qantas presence"
It will only further provide visible proof indicating QF's irrelevance in this "agreement"
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I don't think some people appreciate how code share works. A passenger will book a Qantas ticket all the way through to Milan just for example, no changing carriers, it will be QF4567 to Milan via Dubai. However that is absolutely no guarantee that at any stage of that flight will they ever get on an aircraft painted in Qantas livery; they will actually be on an EK aircraft the whole way. When the pax books the flight with Qantas, there is simply a note (often small) stating "this service is operated by xxxx".
There is no difference in fares between QF and EK under this arrangement. This will be one of the "regulatory approvals" they will need to overcome. Expect competitors to bleat about it being price fixing (unless they don't give a toss about the alliance, given that it's the end of QF international, quite possible they won't).
As far as QF still "flying metal" internationally, if anyone honestly thinks that QF international can sustain the absurd bureaucratic anchor of non-revenue earning paper-pushers together with the world's most highly paid executive empire, by flying around a handful of A380s, then they really should join Margo on cloud cuckoo land! Why does anyone think international was separated off? To "improve productivity" as the BS meisters spruked? Hardly! It's so it can be easy amputated once the virtual network is established.
There is no difference in fares between QF and EK under this arrangement. This will be one of the "regulatory approvals" they will need to overcome. Expect competitors to bleat about it being price fixing (unless they don't give a toss about the alliance, given that it's the end of QF international, quite possible they won't).
As far as QF still "flying metal" internationally, if anyone honestly thinks that QF international can sustain the absurd bureaucratic anchor of non-revenue earning paper-pushers together with the world's most highly paid executive empire, by flying around a handful of A380s, then they really should join Margo on cloud cuckoo land! Why does anyone think international was separated off? To "improve productivity" as the BS meisters spruked? Hardly! It's so it can be easy amputated once the virtual network is established.
The Trojan Horse.
You guys just don't get it. In a couple of years, with everyone now used to flying through the Gulf, 100 A320s in a full business class config [remember those? - already on order] appear en masse in Dubai to fly into Europe. Suddenly the tables are turned and it's a New World Order.
I've got to stop drinking that KoolAid at the barbie!
Only one possible explanation, Sunfish. AJ reads PPRune and takes your advice.
I've got to stop drinking that KoolAid at the barbie!
Sunfish asks:
How can anyone possibly understand this ricochet?
How can anyone possibly understand this ricochet?
Last edited by Captain Gidday; 6th Sep 2012 at 22:42.
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Romulus,
All of those things you mention - the breakage, interest free money, merchant subsidised costs etc - are fine and beaut, but they're just the icing on the cake. And they already exist without EK. The name of the game for any FF scheme is to retain existing passengers and keep them flying on your aircraft. Any deals that you make with other airlines should be mutually beneficial in that the number of pax you lose to your partner airline should be balanced out by the number of pax you gain back from them. This deal achieves neither of those objectives.
This post sums up perfectly why this is a disaster for Qantas. Have a look at the Frequent Flyers forum, it's littered with posts expressing the same sentiment.
Conversely, how many EK FFs woke up this morning thinking "Great, next time I'm in Australia I can use my points to get to ADL on a QF domestic flight .... no wait, Emirates already fly to ADL"
All of those things you mention - the breakage, interest free money, merchant subsidised costs etc - are fine and beaut, but they're just the icing on the cake. And they already exist without EK. The name of the game for any FF scheme is to retain existing passengers and keep them flying on your aircraft. Any deals that you make with other airlines should be mutually beneficial in that the number of pax you lose to your partner airline should be balanced out by the number of pax you gain back from them. This deal achieves neither of those objectives.
So now I have more incentive to book emirates, get my points at woolies and the odd flight to boost them up.
The frequent fliers will be happy, most of them flew qantas to keep the status points etc going, now they don't have to.
The frequent fliers will be happy, most of them flew qantas to keep the status points etc going, now they don't have to.
Conversely, how many EK FFs woke up this morning thinking "Great, next time I'm in Australia I can use my points to get to ADL on a QF domestic flight .... no wait, Emirates already fly to ADL"
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Cheap Flights Australia | Cheap International and Domestic Airfares | Jetstar
I thought I'd check to see what news of the announcement on the JQ website.
Nothing.
I thought I'd check to see what news of the announcement on the JQ website.
Nothing.
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Having travelled both on QF and SQ 'J' class to Europe, SQ leaves QF for dead. That's one of the problems QF needs to address.
I don't care whether it goes via SIN or DXB, it's the service on board and the price.
I don't care whether it goes via SIN or DXB, it's the service on board and the price.
Basically it was a choice for QF. A small percentage of something vs 100% of nothing. A passenger wanting MEL - JFK would have flown on a middle eastern airline from which QF would have earned nothing. Now they can fly him as far as DXB on their own aircraft, with his bags checked through and his onward boarding pass in his hand. Or they can have a percentage of his fare from a code share if he flies EK all the way.
Suddenly a huge network opens up and QF can now offer a range of one stop destinations which never existed before.
Perhaps EK would consider joining the One World alliance and offering a similar deal to other airlines, especially in light of resistance to EKs expansion from certain governments such as Canadas.
Suddenly a huge network opens up and QF can now offer a range of one stop destinations which never existed before.
Perhaps EK would consider joining the One World alliance and offering a similar deal to other airlines, especially in light of resistance to EKs expansion from certain governments such as Canadas.
Dubai "Aviation Experts" opinions..........
http://www.menafn.com/menafn/4f5b9e0...Dubai?src=main
http://www.menafn.com/menafn/4f5b9e0...Dubai?src=main
Aside from allowing Qantas to use the custom built Terminal 3 building in Dubai, that Qantas is now routing its key Sydney and Melbourne connections through the city proves that Emirates competitive edge has forced the ailing Australian airline into joining a partnership that is being driven entirely by Emirates management team,
Qantas customers will be spoilt for choice and will likely leave Qantas in droves, much to Emirates' delight.
I have a few questions for those in the know.
1/ How many departures does EK make from Australian soil every day?
2/ Will this number increase or decrease come April 2013?
3/ How many international departures does QF have from Australian soil each day?
4/ Will this number increase or decrease come April 2013?
I think this will be a good thing for Qantas over the next two-three years but if Qantas decreases the number of international departures then it will be a downhill slide and all over by 2018 for international.
Conversely, if they increase the number of departures and EK decrease or stay the same ( from Ausi soil) it will be win/win. The only way I see that happening is if EK can better utilize their aircraft hours because of the code share.
1/ How many departures does EK make from Australian soil every day?
2/ Will this number increase or decrease come April 2013?
3/ How many international departures does QF have from Australian soil each day?
4/ Will this number increase or decrease come April 2013?
I think this will be a good thing for Qantas over the next two-three years but if Qantas decreases the number of international departures then it will be a downhill slide and all over by 2018 for international.
Conversely, if they increase the number of departures and EK decrease or stay the same ( from Ausi soil) it will be win/win. The only way I see that happening is if EK can better utilize their aircraft hours because of the code share.
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It would make sense for the rescheduled Qantas Asian schedules to allow an Asian transit before boarding an EK service onwards to Dubai then Europe.
High fare premiums flying one stop to Europe via Dubai.
Any excess capacity thru Asia, sold as an alternate means of getting to Europe & still avoiding Heathrow.
High fare premiums flying one stop to Europe via Dubai.
Any excess capacity thru Asia, sold as an alternate means of getting to Europe & still avoiding Heathrow.
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AH-HA !!
A very cunning move by Qantas......now every Qantas aircraft transitting through DXB can be stuffed full with all that FREE FUEL that Emirates has access to
, so alleviating that nasty fuel price disparity that Dixon/Joyce have been banging on about.
Role on....
A very cunning move by Qantas......now every Qantas aircraft transitting through DXB can be stuffed full with all that FREE FUEL that Emirates has access to
, so alleviating that nasty fuel price disparity that Dixon/Joyce have been banging on about.Role on....
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Coulda Woulda Shouda
QF should have started flying to DXB 10 years ago when EK was an infant.
Fly in with 744s,base 6 or so A330s in DXB and run shuttles to 6 or so destinations in Europe.
Read somewhere that Boghetti wanted to do this out of Perth.Apparently the board were perplexed by this idea
Fly in with 744s,base 6 or so A330s in DXB and run shuttles to 6 or so destinations in Europe.
Read somewhere that Boghetti wanted to do this out of Perth.Apparently the board were perplexed by this idea
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Who the hell wants to go to DXB anyway. Once is enough, give me Singers anytime. Oh dear, oh dear, if only, if only, they had given the guernsey to someone who knew what they were doing, Joyce is right up there with Gillard. One running the country, the other the national carrier, both stuffed and broke. Says it all.