QF Shares hit $1.00 Discuss
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Qantas raises fuel charge again | Australian Aviation Magazine
My bold.
How come QF increases domestic & international fares due fuel surcharges & JQ only increases fares (& or service charges) on some routes?
MC
Jetstar will also increase fares on some routes within both its Singapore and Australian markets, the airline said.
How come QF increases domestic & international fares due fuel surcharges & JQ only increases fares (& or service charges) on some routes?
MC
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There's a reason for loss of market share for Cliff's sake! They've either given it to Jetstar or made such a bad product (frequency/timing/price/IFE/old a/c) that punters have left in droves. So either the loss is fiction or the loss is real and it's management's fault!
Last edited by ejectx3; 14th Jun 2012 at 05:51.
I imagine if you total up all the CEO payouts, payments to the Board, Senior Management and to consultants etc over the last few years you'd probably not have much change out of several hundred million?
That's only the price of an airliner or two, maybe three - right?
Those expenses pale into insignificance with the other expenses the airline is facing... and the size of it's overall labour bill... correct?
The world has changed, and Fortress Australia can't hold back history or the economic forces any longer.
No union can protect you... sad, but true.
Bit of a reality check needed by many who are complaining here.
Why is QF currently in crisis?
Maybe - just maybe you all need to look in the mirror
And no - I'm not a troll BTW...
That's only the price of an airliner or two, maybe three - right?
Those expenses pale into insignificance with the other expenses the airline is facing... and the size of it's overall labour bill... correct?
The world has changed, and Fortress Australia can't hold back history or the economic forces any longer.
No union can protect you... sad, but true.
Bit of a reality check needed by many who are complaining here.
Why is QF currently in crisis?
Maybe - just maybe you all need to look in the mirror
And no - I'm not a troll BTW...
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Tatare.
Shall we add the freight cartel fines to the couple of hundred million?
The long haul EBA co-existed with high fuel prices, competition, fluctuating exchange rates & natural disasters.
The only new phenomenon to the equation is the current CEO, nil shareholder dividends & a tanked share price.
If only QF executives matched the wage freezes post September 11 & SARS & a 3% headline rate since. But then again, they are a special bunch.
Shall we add the freight cartel fines to the couple of hundred million?
The long haul EBA co-existed with high fuel prices, competition, fluctuating exchange rates & natural disasters.
The only new phenomenon to the equation is the current CEO, nil shareholder dividends & a tanked share price.
If only QF executives matched the wage freezes post September 11 & SARS & a 3% headline rate since. But then again, they are a special bunch.
Don't get me wrong guys.
I feel very sorry for all of you.
Realistically though - I don't think you can blame Joyce.
Because no-one's had the gonads to make some tough calls up until now, you're backed into a corner.
As much as I hate to say it - I think the only way out of this mess is mass redundancies - i.e. cutting the workforce by as much as 30 per cent - moving you all to Jetstar terms and conditions, closing Mascot and moving everything to Brissy.
Otherwise you just won't be able to keep up with your competition - you'll be rooted.
I feel very sorry for all of you.
Realistically though - I don't think you can blame Joyce.
Because no-one's had the gonads to make some tough calls up until now, you're backed into a corner.
As much as I hate to say it - I think the only way out of this mess is mass redundancies - i.e. cutting the workforce by as much as 30 per cent - moving you all to Jetstar terms and conditions, closing Mascot and moving everything to Brissy.
Otherwise you just won't be able to keep up with your competition - you'll be rooted.
Yes, the Qantas Staff are on outrageously good contracts when you compare them against 99% of the other airlines in the world and at some point they will have to be reworked if Qantas wants to be able to be competitive in the future.
What we have to remember though is that all of these deals were agreed between TWO parties and both those parties should be honoring them now. The staff (particularly pilots) should fight to maintain their terms and conditions. It is a disgrace the way that AJ and his cronies are going about dismantling the airline so that they can circumvent these agreed deals. What it does show though is that if you let these things build up over a period of time when it comes to having to make adjustments you are looking at one hell of a chop as opposed to just trimming around the edges.
What we have to remember though is that all of these deals were agreed between TWO parties and both those parties should be honoring them now. The staff (particularly pilots) should fight to maintain their terms and conditions. It is a disgrace the way that AJ and his cronies are going about dismantling the airline so that they can circumvent these agreed deals. What it does show though is that if you let these things build up over a period of time when it comes to having to make adjustments you are looking at one hell of a chop as opposed to just trimming around the edges.
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Tartare.
The short sighted cost cutting over the last 4 years has back fired.
You have to spend money on product, aircraft & the best people to make money.
Jetstar Asia have Jetstar pay & conditions but have failed to deliver profits.
Perhaps a question for Joyce, will Jetstar terms & conditions at Qantas mainline return international to profit?
The short sighted cost cutting over the last 4 years has back fired.
You have to spend money on product, aircraft & the best people to make money.
Jetstar Asia have Jetstar pay & conditions but have failed to deliver profits.
Perhaps a question for Joyce, will Jetstar terms & conditions at Qantas mainline return international to profit?
short flights long nights
Commenting now on radio in Perth...."Someone is buying shares in Qantas, a takeover bid is looming"....maybe a last the media mammoth is moving, albeit very late, and will be able to see what we have all been talking about for months.
Ollie - my point precisely about lack of gonads in the past.
The pilots priced themselves out of the market.
If I negotiate an uneconomic short term deal for myself - then I only have myself to blame when in the long run I become too expensive.
Mstr - you're way way beyond the point of investing money to make money.
The business is suffering from fundamental structural problems... it's got gangrene.
Amputation of a limb or two is the only option.
Or nationalisation.
And I think Gillard et al have a few more pressing issues to deal with.
The pilots priced themselves out of the market.
If I negotiate an uneconomic short term deal for myself - then I only have myself to blame when in the long run I become too expensive.
Mstr - you're way way beyond the point of investing money to make money.
The business is suffering from fundamental structural problems... it's got gangrene.
Amputation of a limb or two is the only option.
Or nationalisation.
And I think Gillard et al have a few more pressing issues to deal with.
Last edited by tartare; 14th Jun 2012 at 09:02.
Tartare: Most Qf drivers could increase their pay by going to the sandpit, any number of other places or (in certain circumstances) even Jetstar.
It is the ultimate Qf spin that Qantas pilots and engineers have priced themselves out of the market.
I for one have my exit visa stamps and there are many others - to the tune of more than one a week for the last year -MORE than one- and out of a total pool of some few thousand that is a lot.
If it were that good, why would anyone be leaving?
Answer - it is NOT good and people aren't just leaving, in many cases they are leaving aviation altogether, and further, they are being swamped in the rush....
The business has been all but destroyed by self aggrandising incompetents paying themselves millions at the expense of a once wonderful company.
They should be criminally liable.
It is the ultimate Qf spin that Qantas pilots and engineers have priced themselves out of the market.
I for one have my exit visa stamps and there are many others - to the tune of more than one a week for the last year -MORE than one- and out of a total pool of some few thousand that is a lot.
If it were that good, why would anyone be leaving?
Answer - it is NOT good and people aren't just leaving, in many cases they are leaving aviation altogether, and further, they are being swamped in the rush....
The business has been all but destroyed by self aggrandising incompetents paying themselves millions at the expense of a once wonderful company.
They should be criminally liable.
Last edited by V-Jet; 14th Jun 2012 at 10:45.
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Tartare.
My point entirely.
Management have FAILED to invest time, resources, focus and the necessary capital in the Qantas mainline business over the last 7 Plus years which has led us to the current situation.
My point entirely.
Management have FAILED to invest time, resources, focus and the necessary capital in the Qantas mainline business over the last 7 Plus years which has led us to the current situation.
short flights long nights
Where is our friend, The Senator? Is it not time he had something to say about all of this?
There are Two sorts of "Corporate Defences" against takeovers:
1. A defence team of merchant bankers, advisors and managers who clean up the company and make its share price increase so that it is too expensive for a raider to acquire.
2. A team of merchant bankers, advisors and managers who ensure that the share price will fall further if the current managers and Board controlling the company are removed - thus making the company too repellant for a raider to acquire. This method is termed the "poison pill" defence.
I was on the fringes of one such defence in 1985. An "entrepreneur" made a bid for Email Limited - a large manufaturer of white goods in Australia - Westinghouse, Frigidiare, Simpson, chef, Kelvinator, etc. etc. It was gradually going down the tubes thanks to over enthusiastic cost cutting and a complete lack of innovation.
The Entrepreneur made an on market bid for the princely sum of about $1.00 per share which the Board resisted.......
Then a little bird whispered something into the Entrepreneurs ear: - It was about the brands: The most important ones Frigidiare and Kelvinator were not actually owned by Email Ltd. they were foreign brands used subject to a "Gentlemens agreement" under which Email used the trade names in Australia. The "poison pill" was the intimation that the gentlemans agreement would be cancelled if the current Board and managment lost control of the company- which could have completely destroyed the companys refrigerator manufacturing business which was huge. In other words, there was a "cancellation on change of control" clause.
The Entrepreneur didn't raise his bid and sweated buckets until it expired.
The poor widows and orphans kept their shares in the company which eventually expired and was broken up in 2001 - having been a corporate basket case for another Fifteen years.
Now guess what sort of corporate defence the current Qantas Board and management will mount?
1. A defence team of merchant bankers, advisors and managers who clean up the company and make its share price increase so that it is too expensive for a raider to acquire.
2. A team of merchant bankers, advisors and managers who ensure that the share price will fall further if the current managers and Board controlling the company are removed - thus making the company too repellant for a raider to acquire. This method is termed the "poison pill" defence.
I was on the fringes of one such defence in 1985. An "entrepreneur" made a bid for Email Limited - a large manufaturer of white goods in Australia - Westinghouse, Frigidiare, Simpson, chef, Kelvinator, etc. etc. It was gradually going down the tubes thanks to over enthusiastic cost cutting and a complete lack of innovation.
The Entrepreneur made an on market bid for the princely sum of about $1.00 per share which the Board resisted.......
Then a little bird whispered something into the Entrepreneurs ear: - It was about the brands: The most important ones Frigidiare and Kelvinator were not actually owned by Email Ltd. they were foreign brands used subject to a "Gentlemens agreement" under which Email used the trade names in Australia. The "poison pill" was the intimation that the gentlemans agreement would be cancelled if the current Board and managment lost control of the company- which could have completely destroyed the companys refrigerator manufacturing business which was huge. In other words, there was a "cancellation on change of control" clause.
The Entrepreneur didn't raise his bid and sweated buckets until it expired.
The poor widows and orphans kept their shares in the company which eventually expired and was broken up in 2001 - having been a corporate basket case for another Fifteen years.
Now guess what sort of corporate defence the current Qantas Board and management will mount?
Last edited by Sunfish; 14th Jun 2012 at 21:27.
Ah - I see - I wondered if that's what you were referring to...
Yes, I can give some insight.
Again - not wanting to troll you all - but here's what happened, and it may make tough reading.
When I joined NZ, one of the first things that Robbie and a certain ex NZ employee who is now working for you did - was sack 600 LAMEs.
They outsourced heavy engine maintenance.
Holy heck - the sh1t hit the fan.
The unions screamed - circulated the usual photos of busted engines repaired with seatbelts - dire warnings about safety, loss of certain trades forever etc.
The media were in an uproar.
Do you know what happened?
Precisely... nothing.
The jets kept flying, no-one died, the airline didn't stop.
That move sent a very important message - don't mess with us, we are going to reform the business whether you like it or not.
And they did - the next stop was corporate - approx 20 per cent cost out.
It was brutal.
But it was also a clear commercially focused message to the workforce that things had to change - and were going to.
Now - the difference with NZ is that there's also $800 million of Govt money in there propping it up.
QF is a different proposition - it has to exist as a pure commercial entity.
Which makes control of costs even more of an imperative.
Look at it from a bankers point of view - "You want more of my money invested in your airline? Well, you show me you can live within your means first."
I can't control the cost of Singapore jet.
But I can control the cost of labour.
Again - watching this all is very sad - having been through it all before.
But it just seems absolutely inevitable what your management team have to do.
Yes, I can give some insight.
Again - not wanting to troll you all - but here's what happened, and it may make tough reading.
When I joined NZ, one of the first things that Robbie and a certain ex NZ employee who is now working for you did - was sack 600 LAMEs.
They outsourced heavy engine maintenance.
Holy heck - the sh1t hit the fan.
The unions screamed - circulated the usual photos of busted engines repaired with seatbelts - dire warnings about safety, loss of certain trades forever etc.
The media were in an uproar.
Do you know what happened?
Precisely... nothing.
The jets kept flying, no-one died, the airline didn't stop.
That move sent a very important message - don't mess with us, we are going to reform the business whether you like it or not.
And they did - the next stop was corporate - approx 20 per cent cost out.
It was brutal.
But it was also a clear commercially focused message to the workforce that things had to change - and were going to.
Now - the difference with NZ is that there's also $800 million of Govt money in there propping it up.
QF is a different proposition - it has to exist as a pure commercial entity.
Which makes control of costs even more of an imperative.
Look at it from a bankers point of view - "You want more of my money invested in your airline? Well, you show me you can live within your means first."
I can't control the cost of Singapore jet.
But I can control the cost of labour.
Again - watching this all is very sad - having been through it all before.
But it just seems absolutely inevitable what your management team have to do.
Last edited by tartare; 15th Jun 2012 at 00:39.