QF Shares hit $1.00 Discuss
But that means Strong, Dixon, Joyce, Clifford etc have stolen all the value for themselves and through total incompetence left a carcass for the taxpayer to solve. Where is the punishment??
PS: I thought The Sunfish/Jackson comment was measured. Probably very measured in relation to the garbage that was no doubt dished out to Sunfish regularly from the Jackson voicebox. And one would suspect also factual
PS: I thought The Sunfish/Jackson comment was measured. Probably very measured in relation to the garbage that was no doubt dished out to Sunfish regularly from the Jackson voicebox. And one would suspect also factual
Last edited by V-Jet; 10th Jun 2012 at 23:01.
Sunfish:
While I fixed my post, what people do not understand is that women can be at least as bad as managers and leaders as men.
Furthermore, in our laudable efforts to be inclusive, gender neutral and politically correct, corporations have opened the door to women, homosexuals, zombies and others.
The trouble is that the first women in the queue to get board and senior management positions are/were rank opportunists who had no actual hands on experience, but the right qualifications and connections to get ahead, with obvious stand out exceptions like Gail Kelly and others.
To put that another way, there are more female "know nothing MBA qualified managers" than men. They think they are entitled to success but any criticism of their actions immediately sends them running and hiding under the skirts of their business girlfriends from where they making accusations of "sexism".
Chief among them is Saint Margaret who pontificated about her "success" to generations of aspiring MBA's when all she succeeded in doing in my opinion, was being in the right place at the right time when every public corporation in the country was being hounded by the Margaret Whitlam old girls push to shove something in a skirt onto its board.
Personally, the worst manager I have ever seen was female and had an Order of Australia to boot. She was a liar, a cheater, a rotten leader, greedy, vain and envious of real achievement to the point she even fired someone who corrected one of her administrative mistakes. She was so devious that before I knew it, I ended up buying Dunn and Bradstreet reports on other staff for her, on my personal credit card so as to be in secret, as she tried to dig up dirt on anyone she thought potentially threatened her. She destroyed corporate value. She destroyed the careers if highly competent people and she cost a certain organisation at least $250 million by my limited calculations.
You can stuff talk about the "glass ceiling" there are some terribly incompetent female managers around and, unlike men, they are almost impossible to remove.
....And a certain business school is doing its best to shove some more female wannabes into the mix - among which will no doubt be a few more revolting narcissists.
But to get back on topic, what is killing corporations, like Qantas, all over the world is the promotion of people with no hands on experience, or bad character, or what is even worse both afflictions.
To put that another way, does anyone NOT think that the total lack of aviation experience of the Qantas Board has contributed to its current problems??????
To put that yet another way, why was there nobody on the Qantas Board who would have known from first hand experience that EVERY new aircraft type experiences unforseen technical problems of one sort ot another and that therefore preserving some excess engineering capability is only prudent?
To put that even yet another way, is there nobody on the Qantas Board who has first hand experience of being royally screwed in an outsourcing deal, and is therefore aware of the associated risks?
And I got lectured by Saint Margaret Jackson about what a wonderful example of MBA success she was at least every Six months. Stupid +++++.
Furthermore, in our laudable efforts to be inclusive, gender neutral and politically correct, corporations have opened the door to women, homosexuals, zombies and others.
The trouble is that the first women in the queue to get board and senior management positions are/were rank opportunists who had no actual hands on experience, but the right qualifications and connections to get ahead, with obvious stand out exceptions like Gail Kelly and others.
To put that another way, there are more female "know nothing MBA qualified managers" than men. They think they are entitled to success but any criticism of their actions immediately sends them running and hiding under the skirts of their business girlfriends from where they making accusations of "sexism".
Chief among them is Saint Margaret who pontificated about her "success" to generations of aspiring MBA's when all she succeeded in doing in my opinion, was being in the right place at the right time when every public corporation in the country was being hounded by the Margaret Whitlam old girls push to shove something in a skirt onto its board.
Personally, the worst manager I have ever seen was female and had an Order of Australia to boot. She was a liar, a cheater, a rotten leader, greedy, vain and envious of real achievement to the point she even fired someone who corrected one of her administrative mistakes. She was so devious that before I knew it, I ended up buying Dunn and Bradstreet reports on other staff for her, on my personal credit card so as to be in secret, as she tried to dig up dirt on anyone she thought potentially threatened her. She destroyed corporate value. She destroyed the careers if highly competent people and she cost a certain organisation at least $250 million by my limited calculations.
You can stuff talk about the "glass ceiling" there are some terribly incompetent female managers around and, unlike men, they are almost impossible to remove.
....And a certain business school is doing its best to shove some more female wannabes into the mix - among which will no doubt be a few more revolting narcissists.
Melbourne Business School is delighted to invite you to register to attend the 2012 Women and Management Dinner to be held at the Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre on Wednesday 27 June.
Melbourne Business School is committed to raising awareness of key issues and opportunities for women in business. The Women and Management Dinner is one of Melbourne Business School's signature events. Each year the dinner attracts a diverse group of over 600 women and men from business, government and community. It is recognised as a leading forum for celebrating the achievement of women in management and for discussing issues of gender and diversity in the workplace.
Melbourne Business School is committed to raising awareness of key issues and opportunities for women in business. The Women and Management Dinner is one of Melbourne Business School's signature events. Each year the dinner attracts a diverse group of over 600 women and men from business, government and community. It is recognised as a leading forum for celebrating the achievement of women in management and for discussing issues of gender and diversity in the workplace.
To put that another way, does anyone NOT think that the total lack of aviation experience of the Qantas Board has contributed to its current problems??????
To put that yet another way, why was there nobody on the Qantas Board who would have known from first hand experience that EVERY new aircraft type experiences unforseen technical problems of one sort ot another and that therefore preserving some excess engineering capability is only prudent?
To put that even yet another way, is there nobody on the Qantas Board who has first hand experience of being royally screwed in an outsourcing deal, and is therefore aware of the associated risks?
Last edited by Sunfish; 10th Jun 2012 at 23:29.
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Predator Qantas on its knees as prey
WITH a market value of $2.1 billion, cash in the bank of more than $3 billion and a business that is worth more dead than alive, Qantas has gone from being an aviation predator to prey.
Source: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/predator-qantas-on-its-knees-as-prey-20120610-204as.html#ixzz1xR5KYfaR
In the past week Qantas has lost 35 per cent of its market value as long-suffering investors have baled from the stock. The share volume, which averaged 50 million shares over each of the past four days, was significantly higher than the typical daily volume of between 6 and 8 million shares.
It suggests hedge funds and day traders are rushing onto the register in anticipation of a takeover offer or strategic partner pushing the stock price up.........
Certain carriers, investors and banks are examining the possibilities. Speculation has risen that Singapore Airlines and Emirates will look at what a potential tie-up with Qantas might look like. In the case of Singapore Airlines, if competition authorities and the federal government allowed a merger to happen, it would be a merger made in heaven. It would give Singapore access to a strong domestic business and Qantas a decent foothold in Asia.
It suggests hedge funds and day traders are rushing onto the register in anticipation of a takeover offer or strategic partner pushing the stock price up.........
Certain carriers, investors and banks are examining the possibilities. Speculation has risen that Singapore Airlines and Emirates will look at what a potential tie-up with Qantas might look like. In the case of Singapore Airlines, if competition authorities and the federal government allowed a merger to happen, it would be a merger made in heaven. It would give Singapore access to a strong domestic business and Qantas a decent foothold in Asia.
Last edited by WorthWhat; 10th Jun 2012 at 23:32.
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Sunfish has hit a very obvious nail right on the head.
"what is killing corporations, like Qantas, all over the world is the promotion of people with no hands on experience, or bad character, or what is even worse both afflictions"
Putting aside parochial sporting passions for a moment, look at the way the AFL took on the task of setting up a new team in Sydney's west.
Their Plan
1. Put in enough money and then some
2. Put in a tried, proven, trusted, competent professional who knows the game from the boot-studders job to field to the board room. Pay him very adequately but not bazillions
3. Stand back
No rude comments about Sheedy please-its the principle that matters.
Or look at Apple: the biggest company in the world-imagine if Steve Jobs and his ilk (there were and are a lot of similar folks there at Cupertino)-imagine if it were run by wide eyed amateurs with MBAs and bright untested ideas on how to do things better than those who know. Innovation and unparalleled enthusiasm for new things are not enough by themselves. Not by a mile.
Cheers
Algie
"what is killing corporations, like Qantas, all over the world is the promotion of people with no hands on experience, or bad character, or what is even worse both afflictions"
Putting aside parochial sporting passions for a moment, look at the way the AFL took on the task of setting up a new team in Sydney's west.
Their Plan
1. Put in enough money and then some
2. Put in a tried, proven, trusted, competent professional who knows the game from the boot-studders job to field to the board room. Pay him very adequately but not bazillions
3. Stand back
No rude comments about Sheedy please-its the principle that matters.
Or look at Apple: the biggest company in the world-imagine if Steve Jobs and his ilk (there were and are a lot of similar folks there at Cupertino)-imagine if it were run by wide eyed amateurs with MBAs and bright untested ideas on how to do things better than those who know. Innovation and unparalleled enthusiasm for new things are not enough by themselves. Not by a mile.
Cheers
Algie
Or look at Apple: the biggest company in the world-imagine if Steve Jobs and his ilk (there were and are a lot of similar folks there at Cupertino)-imagine if it were run by wide eyed amateurs with MBAs and bright untested ideas on how to do things better than those who know. Innovation and unparalleled enthusiasm for new things are not enough by themselves. Not by a mile.
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short flights long nights
What??? They replaced 747s with 777s???? No way...that will not save any money!!! What was Air New Zealand thinking?
(Its not too late Mr Joyce. Pick up the phone and call Boeing. You can probably get some 777s by next year, with any luck)
(Its not too late Mr Joyce. Pick up the phone and call Boeing. You can probably get some 777s by next year, with any luck)
Qantas will order 777s in the future.
But only when the 777x is announced and the competition start to fly them.
Then they'll blame the unions for forcing them to buy it and saying "we told you so, but they didn't suit us (when comparing to the competitions 777x).
Yesterday's technology tomorrow remember
It's all about massaging the egos of the smartest men in the room.
But only when the 777x is announced and the competition start to fly them.
Then they'll blame the unions for forcing them to buy it and saying "we told you so, but they didn't suit us (when comparing to the competitions 777x).
Yesterday's technology tomorrow remember
It's all about massaging the egos of the smartest men in the room.
GG:
Too true.
If I was cynical, I would attribute QFs decision to buy the A380 in its current form to the Board and senior managements preference for the hotels and restaurants of London and Paris over Seattle and St Louis.
(maybe the delights of Hamburg as well? - just kidding)
This is simply a variation on the old refrain in the days of CAC and GAF to blame RAAF foreign purchasing decisions on the lure of associated international postings.
It's all about massaging the egos of the smartest men in the room.
If I was cynical, I would attribute QFs decision to buy the A380 in its current form to the Board and senior managements preference for the hotels and restaurants of London and Paris over Seattle and St Louis.
(maybe the delights of Hamburg as well? - just kidding)
This is simply a variation on the old refrain in the days of CAC and GAF to blame RAAF foreign purchasing decisions on the lure of associated international postings.
Mr. Joyce says "steady as she goes".
Translation: "Man the lifeboats".
Translation: "Man the lifeboats".
QANTAS chief executive Alan Joyce has made it clear the airline will not rush into selling more assets, such as its air-freight stakes, because shareholders do not want the airline ''overreacting to the situation and making wrong decisions''.
Speaking after a week in which more than $1 billion was wiped from Qantas' value following a shock profit downgrade, Mr Joyce again rejected suggestions that the airline would have to resort to a capital raising to retain its investment-grade credit rating.
He said Qantas was trading at a ''fraction'' of its inherent value. The sum of the parts was ''definitely worth more than the $2.2 billion'' at which the market was valuing it, Mr Joyce said.
Advertisement: Story continues below
His comments on the sidelines of a gathering of airline chief executives in Beijing yesterday came as the International Air Transport Association downgraded its forecasts for airline earnings in the Asia-Pacific region this year by $US300 million to $US2 billion due to a weak first quarter.
Despite Qantas' share price closing at a record low of 97˘ on Friday, Mr Joyce insisted that the airline still had the confidence of its shareholders and the board. He cited its biggest, Capital Group, buying an extra 2 per cent of the airline shares late last week.
''I absolutely know that all of the board is completely solid behind us,'' he said. ''We [will] continue with the strategy [to turn around Qantas' loss-making international operations] and I believe fundamentally that the underlying value of the company will come through in the share price.''
The dismal forecast for the world's aviation industry has highlighted that Qantas is not alone in facing a troubled outlook. Singapore Airlines posted a loss in the March quarter.
Mr Joyce attributed part of the selloff in Qantas shares late last week to heavy pressure from hedge funds and a belief in the market that the airline would be forced to raise equity to maintain its investment-grade credit rating.
Analysts have pointed out that Qantas does have levers to pull to avoid a capital raising, such as further deferrals of aircraft orders and selling non-core assets.
The assets include 50 per cent of air-freight companies Star Track Express and Australian Air Express, and travel agency Jetset Travelworld. Macquarie Equities analysts say the businesses have a combined value of up to $375 million.
While Qantas has made clear it does plan to sell non-core assets, Mr Joyce said it would not rush into offloading them unless it could realise their maximum value.
''We have a core strategy, we're not changing it,'' he said.
The reporter travelled to Beijing courtesy of China Southern and IATA.
Read more: No rush to sell more assets: Qantas chief
Speaking after a week in which more than $1 billion was wiped from Qantas' value following a shock profit downgrade, Mr Joyce again rejected suggestions that the airline would have to resort to a capital raising to retain its investment-grade credit rating.
He said Qantas was trading at a ''fraction'' of its inherent value. The sum of the parts was ''definitely worth more than the $2.2 billion'' at which the market was valuing it, Mr Joyce said.
Advertisement: Story continues below
His comments on the sidelines of a gathering of airline chief executives in Beijing yesterday came as the International Air Transport Association downgraded its forecasts for airline earnings in the Asia-Pacific region this year by $US300 million to $US2 billion due to a weak first quarter.
Despite Qantas' share price closing at a record low of 97˘ on Friday, Mr Joyce insisted that the airline still had the confidence of its shareholders and the board. He cited its biggest, Capital Group, buying an extra 2 per cent of the airline shares late last week.
''I absolutely know that all of the board is completely solid behind us,'' he said. ''We [will] continue with the strategy [to turn around Qantas' loss-making international operations] and I believe fundamentally that the underlying value of the company will come through in the share price.''
The dismal forecast for the world's aviation industry has highlighted that Qantas is not alone in facing a troubled outlook. Singapore Airlines posted a loss in the March quarter.
Mr Joyce attributed part of the selloff in Qantas shares late last week to heavy pressure from hedge funds and a belief in the market that the airline would be forced to raise equity to maintain its investment-grade credit rating.
Analysts have pointed out that Qantas does have levers to pull to avoid a capital raising, such as further deferrals of aircraft orders and selling non-core assets.
The assets include 50 per cent of air-freight companies Star Track Express and Australian Air Express, and travel agency Jetset Travelworld. Macquarie Equities analysts say the businesses have a combined value of up to $375 million.
While Qantas has made clear it does plan to sell non-core assets, Mr Joyce said it would not rush into offloading them unless it could realise their maximum value.
''We have a core strategy, we're not changing it,'' he said.
The reporter travelled to Beijing courtesy of China Southern and IATA.
Read more: No rush to sell more assets: Qantas chief
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No sign Qantas shares will pull up from dive | businessday.com.au
Another opinion of the share price.
More sellers than buyers in large volumes, but AJ maintains he's got the support of shareholders?
Another opinion of the share price.
More sellers than buyers in large volumes, but AJ maintains he's got the support of shareholders?
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 11th Jun 2012 at 23:37.
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Not so sure. Given the following public announcement, the share price may well bounce.
The Dubai-based carrier is examining a “Commercial Arrangement” with Qantas to benefit from the Australian aviation market while stopping short of an equity stake in the Sydney-based airline, Emirates president Tim Clark said in an interview with Bloomberg Television in Beijing....
Last edited by WorthWhat; 11th Jun 2012 at 23:57.
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Fed sec, after that kind of precipitous fall, often there is a recovery especially when they are still going to be making a small profit and are backed by a good cash pile. Could be a dead cat bounce but more likely bargain hunters. often you can get a good trade when gaps in trading prices fill or get a retracement using Fibonacci numbers.
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Spending more money to protect AJ and Co
From the Brisbane times.
Shares in Qantas Airways have rallied more than 7 per cent after the Australian Financial Review reported that the carrier appointed a team to defend against a possible hostile takeover attempt.
Qantas has tapped Macquarie Group to defend against a possible bid after it lost a third of its value last week following a profit warning, the AFR said, without naming any sources.
Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has also appointed Citigroup to monitor the company's share register for any raiders, the paper added.
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The shares rose 7.2 per cent to $1.04, having plunged to an all-time low of 96 cents last week in the wake of a profit downgrade.
Reuters
Read more: Qantas soars on takeover defence talk
Shares in Qantas Airways have rallied more than 7 per cent after the Australian Financial Review reported that the carrier appointed a team to defend against a possible hostile takeover attempt.
Qantas has tapped Macquarie Group to defend against a possible bid after it lost a third of its value last week following a profit warning, the AFR said, without naming any sources.
Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has also appointed Citigroup to monitor the company's share register for any raiders, the paper added.
Advertisement: Story continues below
The shares rose 7.2 per cent to $1.04, having plunged to an all-time low of 96 cents last week in the wake of a profit downgrade.
Reuters
Read more: Qantas soars on takeover defence talk
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Amazing...they spend more money on consultants to maintain the status quo in circumstances all of the making of a select few. How much will this exercise cost $100m yet again????
One day they will actually run a competitive airline, but I doubt it.
One day they will actually run a competitive airline, but I doubt it.
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I thought the motley fool summed it up well
Saving Qantas
We’d respectfully suggest Mr Joyce and his merry men and women at Qantas first focus on saving the business from going bust than from any predator.
You wouldn’t catch us buying shares in any company on the outside chance it might be taken over. For all the takeover rumours, very few actually come to fruition.
We’d respectfully suggest Mr Joyce and his merry men and women at Qantas first focus on saving the business from going bust than from any predator.
You wouldn’t catch us buying shares in any company on the outside chance it might be taken over. For all the takeover rumours, very few actually come to fruition.