Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

[Lookleft]

Maybe this report is enough to produce another John Sharp, a Minister with determination to make a difference.

Tell me you are joking! The same bloke who as a director of Rex was up to his neck in the whole Pel-Air cover up by CASA!

With all due respect, not only do I hope that is not true, for once I have some confidence in recent statements by Warren Truss,

Hope is not enough LS and can you point us in the direction of those statements I would be interested in seeing them.

The Minister's reaction to the report is quite predictable

I agree with you there which is why I have not held out much hope for the released report to be a "game changer"

As for you Sunfish, calling me a troll is the funniest thing I've read in ages.

[Sarcs]

POSITIONS VACANT

ventus45:

It begs the question though, how do you fix a system so, so, so terribly broken ?

Start again, with two independent clean sheets of paper, with a demand that they never be allowed to get into bed again ?
Now who would have the balls to do that ?
The relevant shadow minister is .............. ?

How indeed?

CJ love it!

• Marty, the 'messiah of beyond reason' must go. Yes the star Beaker must take his 30 years of bureaucratic experience and perhaps conduct risk management on Manus Island and risk rank the safety levels of seized asylum seeker boats as to their capability of joining the Australian Navy vessel fleet now that Swannny has conceded financially we are f#cked.

Okay and Leadie has an idea on who to replace him with…

Leadie: "In the normal course of events, should we not expect the immediate resignation of the Chief Commissioner --- this job turned out to be a poisoned chalice for a prominent public servant, but one with limited, if any, technical knowledge or experience in this field...Who should the replacement be --- several names have been canvassed in this thread....I want to add another, imminently qualified to meet the inquiry recommendation for minimum qualifications to be the ATSB Chief Commissioner. He is the present industry head of the CASA SCC, and an old BASI/ATSB (and the same job in other countries) hand."

Not a bad choice Leadie did a quick background on whom you were talking about and he certainly has the CV to fit…but what about Fort Fumble Leadie any ideas there?

Maybe a few ideas from the “IOS” Board…


max1 said: "Maybe the best way to deal with the boys club is to put a woman in charge?...Margaret Staib seems to be quietly getting on with it at ASA."

And Creamy agreed:"Hear! Hear!...Bring back “Maxim Mary” Schiavo. Anyone but another f8#king airline pilot."

Not my area really but since we’re talking about possible deck chair shuffling and some new chairs to replace some of the rotten, severely sun bleached old chairs…here’s a position that some on here may want to consider advertised yesterday….

SECTION 1 – POSITION ATTRIBUTES
Title
Manager Flight Operations
Classification
Senior Manager Group D
Division
Standards
Branch
Flight Standards
Location
Canberra
Position Number
2637
Reports To
Manager Flight Standards Branch
Number of Subordinates
18 and additional contractors staff as required
Security Level
Entry
Safety Sensitive position
Yes
Authorised by P&P
May 2013


SECTION 2 – OVERVIEW OF THE ROLE
Overview of the Division
The Standards Division principal role is the development of aviation safety standards and guidance material, the implementation of these regulatory changes, standardisation activities across CASA and the carriage of CASA’s initial and continuing airworthiness functions. The division comprises four branches:
• Flight Standards;
• Airworthiness and Engineering Standards;
• Standards Development and Quality Assurance;
• Operations Regulations Implementation
The basic functions located in this division are:
• Development of standards and regulations, including associated policies, standards and guidance material, for all aviation safety activities.
• Management of engineering, certification, manufacturing and continuing airworthiness processes and the resolution of technical issues in relation to airframes, avionics, propulsion and mechanical systems.
• Management of the program, projects and processes required to implement regulatory change.
• Management of internal quality assurance and associated processes as they relate to regulatory standards and guidance material, together with a lead role in regulatory standardisation processes within CASA.

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100207/2637.pdf

So anyone interested? You don’t need much, the acting knob only has a PPL and is a member of an aeroclub…

Mandatory

• Extensive experience in the management of complex regulatory and standards development projects.

• Demonstrated capability of successfully managing a multi-disciplined team.

• Aviation industry experience.

• Comprehensive working knowledge of the Australian aviation safety legislation as relevant to the role.

…poison chalice you say? Well maybe but come on you get to go on Montreal jaunts…

8. Represent CASA at national and international aviation safety forums regarding Australia’s flight operations standards program.

Come on you know you want to?? And I’m sure Oleo or Kharon will be your referees, although they may not advance your chances if the current DAS is still around?

No takers?

Oh well it seems it may be a far easier task to find a Chief Commissioner for the bureau than trying to fill most positions within the toxic environment of FF…hmm unless of course you’re a ‘yes man’ with sociopath tendencies!


By the way here's another rant from the DAS having a crack at those "Ills of Society"...."Consistent with our obligations to ensure fairness and propriety in the conduct of our enforcement processes, CASA avoids engaging in any public discussion of the issues that are before the court or the tribunal. Unfortunately, this does not prevent others from doing so. Comments and remarks about CASA’s actions often appear in various news media that are incomplete, inaccurate and sometimes misleading. I believe this is unfair and unhelpful"... (click here for full text).

Oh well at least he is consistent...Oz article 2009, "IOS" forever!

Ben on 'full government support' comment.

[Frank Arouet]

You would know exactly where you stood if 'Chopper Reid" was running the show.

In his absence, I have often nominated 'The Mafia', again because you know what to expect and where you stand in the big scheme of things.

And they are self funding.

Oh! and who can forget 'The Drovers Dog'?

I wouldn't mind reading The National's 'white paper'.

[Seabreeze]

lobby for the recommendations

Well done Senators X and F! You blokes do good work!

The problems are systemic.

We need independent and capable Boards to enure the next pair of clowns (Directors) are managed. These two clowns deserve to be pilloried and have tomatoes and scorn thrown at them in the middle of Civic; then put into custody- even better.

But the next pair need watching by independent capable people with nothing to lose.

Minister, you need to revamp the CASA Board and put in people who will do more than inspect their CASA Board remuneration packages, and build a new Board for ATSB.

If the Minister for bad teeth does nothing as is expected, then that just underlines this governments overall approach to aviation (and airpprts).
So 'tis time to lobby the libs also, methinks.

But right now the stench of rotting ethics and incompetence is sickening. The system needs a good dose of disinfectant of the sort that the senators propose: (inquisition, exposure, clarification and transparency).

I for one will lobby the Minister and the shadow Minister; and no elaboration is needed.

All it needs is a letter which says "The Senate Report on Aviation Accident Investigations must be considered and acted upon immediately, in the interests of aviation safety" or some similar.

Please consider lobbying.

Seabreeze

[Jinglie]

Albanese comments

I cannot believe Albo has come out saying they have total confidence in CASA and the ATSB!! Is he blind or reading a different report???
Doesn't really matter much though as in September Albo will realise the Australian public have no confidence in him!

This whole circus would be laughable if it wasn't so serious!
Great job Senators!

[gordonfvckingramsay]

fpvdude:

Thanks for posting! I just did it and it is quick and easy. I agree, everybody should do it,and don't hold back!

[Up-into-the-air]

Here we go again

This was published on casa's web site - he just does not get it!!!

Director of Aviation Safety Speeches

Director of Aviation Safety John McCormick


2013

Working in collaboration to enhance aviation safety
by Director of Aviation Safety John McCormick - Singapore - 7 May 2013

STANDARD

Working in collaboration to enhance aviation safety

Thank you for the invitation to join the 2nd Annual Safety in Aviation – Asia conference this afternoon. Conferences like these provide a terrific opportunity to meet up with diverse range of aviation personalities from this part of the world and exchange ideas on many facets of the aviation industry and in particular, safety aspects that are fundamental to growth of this industry.

What a load of rubbish!!!

[thorn bird]

"Growth of this industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Someone should congratulate him he's dead right....
It is growing in those countries with sensible regulation, in Australia on the other hand......

[Man the lifejackets]

Thanks to all (?)

As a long time lurker but newbie blogger could I just add my thanks to the excellent submissions by Mick Quinn, Bryan Aherne and Richard Davies. My own objectives were rather limited but these gentlemen exposed the total farce that is air safety in Australia - are we really relying upon Qantas to do the right thing?
BTW - kudos - choccy frogs etc. (?) to most of the rest of you who have endured the poor state of affairs for as long as you have. This inquiry has morphed into a inquiry of the state of the industry and that is all to the good, judging by the results. The Minister is merely saying what he must. And is that not a reflection upon our political system?

My message to CASA / ATSB - I may not understand all that you are saying but as a layman I demand transparency.

[Cactusjack]

I think one of the interesting comments that came out of the Senators report, and I think it was in Senator Xenophons closing remarks, was that the Senate has sat through a number of these inquiries over the years and the same allegations continually crop up, along the lines of bullying, payback etc by the Regulator. I guess the word tautology might come to mind? The words systemic and accountability (lack of) also spring to mind, which is even more evidence that the regulator, the system, has been damaged for many years.

The AnusTSB is a different story, it was a robust, reputable investigative body until Marty stamped his bureaucratic non aviation educated mind and hands on it. And what an injustice to their investigators, to have their skills and level of training brought into question. These guys were a quality outfit, highly regarded and respected, I feel deeply for the long term and long suffering investigators having to endure the stupidity and destructive methods of their masters.

Someone mentioned previously JMac in Singapore, mingling with other regulatory bodies, interesting. I wonder what lessons he could share with them? Perhaps he used his own analogy, that of the Captain of a ship that has struck an iceberg, and as the ship takes its last gasp and slips beneath the waves Captain JMac submerged up to the chin still shouts profanities and blame toward the iceberg. Such is his arrogance and disdain towards other humans.

And Albanese, the minister for troughs, what a complete tosspot he is. Backing his minions even though they have been exposed for what they really are. The Minister should be ashamed. He ought to pack his bags, have the 'honorable' bars stripped from his sleeves, made to hand back his toupe at Parliament House front gates and banished to a life outside of politics (perhaps as an aviation or infrastructure consultant no doubt).

This is a woeful chapter in Australia's aviation evolution and one that can be salvaged but at great effort.

[LeadSled]

and can you point us in the direction of those statements

KK,
No, because they were not made in public.

Re: John Sharp --- one and the same, but recent events do not change what happened in 1996 --1999, when he, then Mark Vaile were the relevant ministers --- and Leroy Keith was the CASA CEO & DAS.

That part of the reg. reform program worked, and only upset the diehards in CASA --- the industry was happy.

We know what happened from the time John Anderson became minister, and the "iron ring" in CASA re-asserted itself --- and to a large degree neutered the regs. that went in place in mid-1998.

Tootle pip!!

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

The latest casa briefing is out. It is worth a read.



Senate Estimates will be interesting.

[slats11]

I wonder how Ziggy's discussions with the FAA are proceeding.

I just read Ben's August 2011 column in Plane Talking
Wikileaks: Australia failed US FAA air safety audit in 2009 | Plane Talking

Of course, Ben didn't know of the special audit when he wrote this column. That only came out in 2012.

However we now know CASA was being audited by the FAA at the very same time CASA was performing the special audit on PelAir (November 26-December 15). That must have been .......interesting.

I wonder if the crash (November 18) actually triggered the FAA visit (November 30 - December 4), or whether this was just a coincidence. Regardless, imagine how delighted CASA would have been! CASA was conducting an audit into PelAir (an audit which was unavoidably critical of CASA as it was confirming previously identified problems were still present) at the same time the FAA was auditing CASA. The CASA special audit must have been a real hand grenade when it was finished. What to do with this in 2010? What to do with this while the FAA pondered its assessment of CASA.

[601]

Leroy Keith

The CEO decreed that CASA personnel were not to socialise with the industry. I believe that where the rot started.

[Sunfish]

The report is a public service matter at this stage in my opinion. There are no policy issues involved as far as I can see.

My guess is that Mr. Mrdak will be asked to address this matter, perhaps under the watchful eye of PM & C. The issue will be to convince FAA and ICAO to give us time to correct matters.

Of course the government offers " full support" but that is short of absolute confidence.

The elephant in the room is an FAA audit, and if that happened it would immediately become a policy matter.


If CASA and ATSB decide to brazen it out with only cosmetic changes, then I think the Senate will come back with a blunt and rusty knife next time.

Heads must roll.

[Sarcs]

"Quick rehash!"

Rehashing old ground (thread pages 75-81) I know but it is still very relevant!

slats11:

I wonder if the crash (November 18) actually triggered the FAA visit (November 30 - December 4), or whether this was just a coincidence. Regardless, imagine how delighted CASA would have been! CASA was conducting an audit into PelAir (an audit which was unavoidably critical of CASA as it was confirming previously identified problems were still present) at the same time the FAA was auditing CASA. The CASA special audit must have been a real hand grenade when it was finished. What to do with this in 2010? What to do with this while the FAA pondered its assessment of CASA.

Also remember S11 that there was also a Senate Inquiry in play at the time that FF and to a lesser extent the bureau successfully obfuscated, and in the end was white-washed by the Great White Elephant paper. But your point on the ICAO/FAA audit is still very much in play, here is the official AQON to QON 126 from the last Senate Estimates (12/02/2013):

Question no.: 126
Program: n/a
Division/Agency: (CASA) Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Topic: Status of the 2009 Federal Aviation Administration Audit
Proof Hansard Page/s: 77 (12/02/13)
Senator FAWCETT asked:

Senator FAWCETT: I would like to refer you back to the FAA audit that was conducted a couple of years ago. My understanding is that there were a number of deficiencies found during that. Can you give us a status report of rectifications of those?

Mr J McCormick: We can take most of that on notice, if you like. What I can give you now is that the majority issue was around the fact that we did not have sufficient training, in their mind, for our inspectorate. We had already set in place a training school which is now up and running and, in particular, their concerns were over the inspectors who oversaw what is called FAR 129 foreign operators operating RPT, regular public transport, into the US. It was around the amount of training that people had done, where most of the training in the past of say six or seven years ago revolved a lot around on-the-job training and then people had their basic training either that way or through a course to start with was perhaps not as extensive as it should have been. Since then we have rectified that completely.

Senator FAWCETT: I am happy for you to take those on notice.

Answer:
CASA was advised by the FAA in late 2010 that, as CASA had rectified all identified deficiencies, all of these matters are considered resolved.

Yes the AQONs are finally out, see ‘here’. Note: Only took them > 4 months to come up with such an extremely self serving and arrogant answer.

On that answer??… While scaling Mt Non-compliance*, I would suggest, there was quite a bit of evidence to the contrary??

So what Biccy said… “Senate Estimates will be interesting….” , it will be extremely interesting to see if Senator Fawcett will be accepting of that answer??

On the question of the government statement… “full government support”… I’d suggest that that is just a throw away line and officially unofficial. If you check ‘here’ you will see that ‘officially’ there has been no such statement forthcoming from the Minister’s office.

Doin a Kelpie!

*back at posts 1536, 1566 #1573 1590)))

[Creampuff]

LL asked LS:

[C]an you point us in the direction of those statements [made by Warren Truss]?

LS said:

No, because they were not made in public.

Rubbish. Everything a politician says about policy is public property.

Or he didn’t mean what he said.

What fascinates me is how you, of all people, still don’t comprehend the root cause of the systemic problem. Despite all your experience and decades of first-hand evidence to the contrary, you can still put your faith in the next (recycled) bunch of politicians to deliver aviation nirvana.

[Up-into-the-air]

Who is going to make it happen

Well creamy, those paid to do it are not "doin' it"

Suggestions???

[Creampuff]

Elect independents.

[PAIN_NET]

PAIN links for the report

The Senate enquiry web page has been down for over 24 hours, so in order to aid those late to download the report here is a direct link off the Senate site.

Senate RRATT AAI Report

There is also the previous notified PAIN link for the report. However it is worth noting there maybe short delays with that link as it has been inundated since the Senate site has been down (approaching 200 downloads), so please be patient!

PAIN link for report

P2 (AKA BP the quiet achiever)