Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011
"The minister wants to respond urgently to the report" is meaningless. What you think it means is that the Minister is going to require meaningful change of ATSB and CASA.
I believe nothing of the sort will be required.
The next Minister for Aviation will be encouraged to "buy in" to cosmetic reorganisation of both organisations, and after doing so is effectively "captured" - after all, he bought in didn't he? He can thus no longer take an axe to either organisation without being exposed to criticism.
Fawcett , nor anyone else with an understanding of aviation and its problems will be kept at arms length from CASA by the Abbott government because they might (horror) actually try to do something !
You will get a know nothing Minister who will be putty in the Departments hands, it's safer that way.
To put that another way, it is politically safer not "safer" as in aviation safety.
I believe nothing of the sort will be required.
The next Minister for Aviation will be encouraged to "buy in" to cosmetic reorganisation of both organisations, and after doing so is effectively "captured" - after all, he bought in didn't he? He can thus no longer take an axe to either organisation without being exposed to criticism.
Fawcett , nor anyone else with an understanding of aviation and its problems will be kept at arms length from CASA by the Abbott government because they might (horror) actually try to do something !
You will get a know nothing Minister who will be putty in the Departments hands, it's safer that way.
To put that another way, it is politically safer not "safer" as in aviation safety.
Last edited by Sunfish; 29th May 2013 at 23:01.
One of the reasons I follow the comings and goings on this Forum is to get the inside guff in a language that I can understand. naturally I am interested in CASA's attendance at the Senate Estimates. As time constraints preclude watching it live, I come to this Forum to get a review that is posted by someone who speaks my language.
However post by Kharon at #1939 is utter gobblegook. Can someone give a decent precis of what occurred or a link to CASA's appearance.
However post by Kharon at #1939 is utter gobblegook. Can someone give a decent precis of what occurred or a link to CASA's appearance.
The Hansard will be published here: Senate Committees ? Parliament of Australia
within the next couple of days.
within the next couple of days.
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601; So lets get this straight, you were too idle to record it, too lazy to get the Hansard and the two Ben Sandilands pieces provided (1939) just don't fulfil your expectations; then you expect me to make it all better. Please – let me change my bags lest you dirty your dainty foot kicking my arse 'cos your too bloody idle to do some reading. Well pardon me.
Spoon feeding starts at 10 45 AM sharp.......
Spoon feeding starts at 10 45 AM sharp.......
Last edited by Kharon; 30th May 2013 at 00:38.
Oh dear Kharon a little bit touchy about critisism are we? Not everyone bows before your "superior" talents with the keyboard. Creamy had the decency to post a civilised response to 601s request.
'Caesar judging Caesar' and 'high impact vs low impact'??
Err...back to the thread perhaps??
The hardworking Hansard boys'n'gals are obviously having probs deciphering the great Fort Fumble bullyboy debate and as a consequence have only released the more sedate deliberations and questions after the dinner break...featuring the great thick skinned mi..mi..mi..Beaker!!
Note: Whatever we think of Beaker you've got to admire an individual, who'd have trouble lying straight in bed, that can still front up and continue to stare down perhaps his biggest critics! Come on Minister or someone just put the poor bugger out of his misery...
Anyway back to the Hansard that is relevant to the thread:
That Senator Edwards is priceless the few times he has stepped in, remember.. "Mea culpa after mea culpa..." oh way back when??
Hmm just thinking on 'high impact vs low impact' and Robo helos...something in there me thinks??
Doin a Kelpie!
The hardworking Hansard boys'n'gals are obviously having probs deciphering the great Fort Fumble bullyboy debate and as a consequence have only released the more sedate deliberations and questions after the dinner break...featuring the great thick skinned mi..mi..mi..Beaker!!
Note: Whatever we think of Beaker you've got to admire an individual, who'd have trouble lying straight in bed, that can still front up and continue to stare down perhaps his biggest critics! Come on Minister or someone just put the poor bugger out of his misery...
Anyway back to the Hansard that is relevant to the thread:
Senator XENOPHON: So you have not reconsidered your interpretation of ICAO annex 13 in relation to the retrieval of the cockpit voice recorder in the Pel-Air ditching?
Mr Dolan: More broadly speaking and specifically to that question, the recommendations that came out of the committee's report as they referred to the ATSB as an independent agency will be reviewed by the commission of the ATSB—me and my fellow commissioners—so it is not just a decision for me but for the three of us acting collectively in accordance with our legal responsibility.
Senator XENOPHON: In the financial year that the Pel-Air ditching occurred, you were within budget, weren't you? You were not over budget at the end of that year.
Mr Dolan: We had a surplus at the end of that year, correct.
Senator XENOPHON: So you cannot say that the decision not to retrieve the cockpit voice recorder was due to budgetary constraints, because by the end of that financial year you still had a surplus.
Mr Dolan: I still had to have regard to the likely and projected costs of recovery, what my available resources were and what I needed to do with them.
Senator XENOPHON: It is another jurisdiction, but I think the ATSB is involved in Indonesia and does provide assistance. In the recent crash of a Lion Air 737 off Bali earlier this year, the cockpit voice recorder was retrieved at a great cost and difficulty even though the crew survived, because annex 13 requires it and the international community expects it. Is there any possibility that you will reconsider the decision not to retrieve the cockpit voice recorder in relation to the Pel-Air incident?
Mr Dolan: There is a possibility—in fact, there is the certainty—that the commissioners will reconsider it. That is part of our review of the recommendations of the committee. Once we have done that, we will report back on the results of our consideration.
Senator XENOPHON: And when do you think that will be reconsidered?
Mr Dolan: At this stage—and I need to have further discussions with my fellow commissioners—we have a scheduled formal commission meeting on 24 July. At this stage, that is when we would expect to consider all the recommendations of the committee.
Senator XENOPHON: I think Senator Edwards raised this during the inquiry. Is there a possibility that ATSB will consider reopening that investigation based on the findings of the Senate committee report?
Mr Dolan: We have a recommendation in front of us from the committee that says that we should do that and we will have due regard to that recommendation.
Senator XENOPHON: The committee has criticised the ATSB in relation to its report on the Pel-Air ditching. You are now in a position to reconsider whether you ought to reopen the investigation. Do you think it is appropriate that an independent person outsourced by the ATSB—an aviation expert—make recommendations as to whether it ought to be reopened given that there is a fundamental conflict? It is sort of like Caesar judging Caesar in the context of what ought to be done with respect to reopening the investigation.
Mr Dolan: I hear what you are saying, Senator. A matter obviously I would have to discuss with my fellow commissioners is what information and advice they may wish to rely on in reconsidering the decision that has been made.
Senator XENOPHON: Do you think it is appropriate that there be some independent assessment as to whether the investigation be reopened given that there would be, on the face of it, an apparent conflict with the board effectively having to make a call as to whether it should be critical of its previous report?
Mr Dolan: No, I do not. I see that our responsibilities as the commissioners of the ATSB in meeting the functions of the organisation are something that we are required to appropriately consider. What information we draw on to make those considerations I think is a matter for us.
Senator EDWARDS: Are you seriously considering judging yourselves on this information again?
Mr Dolan: We are seriously considering weighing all the information that has been available through the Senate committee and other material that might come to light in making our decision as we are required to do under our legislation.
Mr Mrdak: Clearly these are matters which the government will need to consider in the light of the Senate committee's report.
Senator EDWARDS: Sure, I am trying to give you some guidance.
Mr Mrdak: We do appreciate that. Mr Dolan is quite correctly putting the position of the commission regarding its legislation. The matters that have been raised in the report and the issues both Senator Xenophon and Senator Edwards have just raised are matters that we will put to the minister as part of the government's response.
Mr Dolan: More broadly speaking and specifically to that question, the recommendations that came out of the committee's report as they referred to the ATSB as an independent agency will be reviewed by the commission of the ATSB—me and my fellow commissioners—so it is not just a decision for me but for the three of us acting collectively in accordance with our legal responsibility.
Senator XENOPHON: In the financial year that the Pel-Air ditching occurred, you were within budget, weren't you? You were not over budget at the end of that year.
Mr Dolan: We had a surplus at the end of that year, correct.
Senator XENOPHON: So you cannot say that the decision not to retrieve the cockpit voice recorder was due to budgetary constraints, because by the end of that financial year you still had a surplus.
Mr Dolan: I still had to have regard to the likely and projected costs of recovery, what my available resources were and what I needed to do with them.
Senator XENOPHON: It is another jurisdiction, but I think the ATSB is involved in Indonesia and does provide assistance. In the recent crash of a Lion Air 737 off Bali earlier this year, the cockpit voice recorder was retrieved at a great cost and difficulty even though the crew survived, because annex 13 requires it and the international community expects it. Is there any possibility that you will reconsider the decision not to retrieve the cockpit voice recorder in relation to the Pel-Air incident?
Mr Dolan: There is a possibility—in fact, there is the certainty—that the commissioners will reconsider it. That is part of our review of the recommendations of the committee. Once we have done that, we will report back on the results of our consideration.
Senator XENOPHON: And when do you think that will be reconsidered?
Mr Dolan: At this stage—and I need to have further discussions with my fellow commissioners—we have a scheduled formal commission meeting on 24 July. At this stage, that is when we would expect to consider all the recommendations of the committee.
Senator XENOPHON: I think Senator Edwards raised this during the inquiry. Is there a possibility that ATSB will consider reopening that investigation based on the findings of the Senate committee report?
Mr Dolan: We have a recommendation in front of us from the committee that says that we should do that and we will have due regard to that recommendation.
Senator XENOPHON: The committee has criticised the ATSB in relation to its report on the Pel-Air ditching. You are now in a position to reconsider whether you ought to reopen the investigation. Do you think it is appropriate that an independent person outsourced by the ATSB—an aviation expert—make recommendations as to whether it ought to be reopened given that there is a fundamental conflict? It is sort of like Caesar judging Caesar in the context of what ought to be done with respect to reopening the investigation.
Mr Dolan: I hear what you are saying, Senator. A matter obviously I would have to discuss with my fellow commissioners is what information and advice they may wish to rely on in reconsidering the decision that has been made.
Senator XENOPHON: Do you think it is appropriate that there be some independent assessment as to whether the investigation be reopened given that there would be, on the face of it, an apparent conflict with the board effectively having to make a call as to whether it should be critical of its previous report?
Mr Dolan: No, I do not. I see that our responsibilities as the commissioners of the ATSB in meeting the functions of the organisation are something that we are required to appropriately consider. What information we draw on to make those considerations I think is a matter for us.
Senator EDWARDS: Are you seriously considering judging yourselves on this information again?
Mr Dolan: We are seriously considering weighing all the information that has been available through the Senate committee and other material that might come to light in making our decision as we are required to do under our legislation.
Mr Mrdak: Clearly these are matters which the government will need to consider in the light of the Senate committee's report.
Senator EDWARDS: Sure, I am trying to give you some guidance.
Mr Mrdak: We do appreciate that. Mr Dolan is quite correctly putting the position of the commission regarding its legislation. The matters that have been raised in the report and the issues both Senator Xenophon and Senator Edwards have just raised are matters that we will put to the minister as part of the government's response.
Hmm just thinking on 'high impact vs low impact' and Robo helos...something in there me thinks??
Senator XENOPHON: Thank you. I want to ask Mr Dolan to take something on notice. Going back to the R44 accidents that occurred in 2003, 2006 and 2008, my understanding is that four people died in each of these accidents, so 12 in total. Can you provide information on notice as to whether they were categorised as high-impact accidents and whether there was an appropriate engineering or other expert assessment undertaken as to whether retrofitting of the aircraft with the safety bladder for the fuel tanks would have made any difference?
Mr Dolan: I can say in each of the cases there was no direct consideration given to the retrofitting issue, which was a subsequent issue from Robinson Helicopter. We can certainly give you the information that relates to our assessment essentially of the survivability questions related to those three accidents.
Senator XENOPHON: Which will go to the issue of how high the impact was et cetera. Thank you.
Mr Dolan: I can say in each of the cases there was no direct consideration given to the retrofitting issue, which was a subsequent issue from Robinson Helicopter. We can certainly give you the information that relates to our assessment essentially of the survivability questions related to those three accidents.
Senator XENOPHON: Which will go to the issue of how high the impact was et cetera. Thank you.
Last edited by Sarcs; 30th May 2013 at 11:36.
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Lookleft, you truly are one of the most pride filled arrogant Posters I have seen in some time. Pull your head in and grow up.
Kharon may be somewhat unique in his approach or speech, but so what, we aren't all robots. The bloke has put in tireless amounts of work to expose the ills of our industry, with the goal of getting the system fixed once and for all, which unfortunately includes highlighting how fu#ked CASA, ATSB and the Government are.
If you jump on line and throw mud expect to have it thrown back, and when that happens please don't act like a skirt.
Sarcs, spot on mate - back to the topic. The show ain't over til the fat lady sings.
Kharon may be somewhat unique in his approach or speech, but so what, we aren't all robots. The bloke has put in tireless amounts of work to expose the ills of our industry, with the goal of getting the system fixed once and for all, which unfortunately includes highlighting how fu#ked CASA, ATSB and the Government are.
If you jump on line and throw mud expect to have it thrown back, and when that happens please don't act like a skirt.
Sarcs, spot on mate - back to the topic. The show ain't over til the fat lady sings.
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Sarcs,
Thanks for the Hansard posting. All pretty embarrassing for Beaker. Didn't retrieve the data recorders for budget reasons despite being under budget.
The 24th July appears to be an attempt to kick the ball into the long grass with the election coming.
Bens latest
ATSB, CASA to ‘ride this one out’ over Pel-Air scandal
ATSB, CASA, Department to 'ride this one out' over Pel-Air | Plane Talking
Thanks for the Hansard posting. All pretty embarrassing for Beaker. Didn't retrieve the data recorders for budget reasons despite being under budget.
The 24th July appears to be an attempt to kick the ball into the long grass with the election coming.
Bens latest
ATSB, CASA to ‘ride this one out’ over Pel-Air scandal
ATSB, CASA, Department to 'ride this one out' over Pel-Air | Plane Talking
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Everybody pays the ferryman
So CAsA and ATSBeaker get a free ride again do they?
Well if nothing tangible comes from all of this then the clock just ticked one tock closer to the stroke of midnight. Australia's biggest risk to aviation safety has been exposed (exposed about 20 years ago actually, but anyway) if the decision is to sweep this all under the carpet is taken then you have a new risk, a latent condition, which will ultimately involve a large passenger jet. Of course by the time it happens all the current dross will be retired and enjoying the fruits of a taxpayer funded career. But somebody will be scooping up the inevitable body parts. The blame game will start and so the cyclic game of spin and evade will begin once again. But the impact and shock waves will be greater.
At least some of us will have the small satisfaction of scrolling through pprune and rehashing threads like this which will have been long forgotten and we will say 'told you so'.
As for all the smarmy pooh poohers and inept government aviation individuals one thing is for certain - everybody pays the ferryman, everybody. Only time will tell if your free pass across the river Styx is valid.
As an old friend who now resides in the ICAO building in Montreal would say - TICK TOCK. (I've missed hearing that, R.I.P Gobbles)
Well if nothing tangible comes from all of this then the clock just ticked one tock closer to the stroke of midnight. Australia's biggest risk to aviation safety has been exposed (exposed about 20 years ago actually, but anyway) if the decision is to sweep this all under the carpet is taken then you have a new risk, a latent condition, which will ultimately involve a large passenger jet. Of course by the time it happens all the current dross will be retired and enjoying the fruits of a taxpayer funded career. But somebody will be scooping up the inevitable body parts. The blame game will start and so the cyclic game of spin and evade will begin once again. But the impact and shock waves will be greater.
At least some of us will have the small satisfaction of scrolling through pprune and rehashing threads like this which will have been long forgotten and we will say 'told you so'.
As for all the smarmy pooh poohers and inept government aviation individuals one thing is for certain - everybody pays the ferryman, everybody. Only time will tell if your free pass across the river Styx is valid.
As an old friend who now resides in the ICAO building in Montreal would say - TICK TOCK. (I've missed hearing that, R.I.P Gobbles)
Last edited by 004wercras; 30th May 2013 at 12:36.
you were too idle to record it, too lazy to get the Hansard
If only we had more time to sit and watch.
Thanks Creamy for the considered response.
Last edited by 601; 30th May 2013 at 13:30.
Dolans repeated line: " me and my fellow Commissioners" is technically called a diffusion of responsibility defence. It suggests Dolan has not, did not and will not act alone. If I was one of his fellow commissioners I would be alarmed.
I think there are now sadly only Two options. Either iCAO or FAA step in or we will end up with Three smoking holes.
It is clear that pilots - the last line of defence, are all that is keeping the public safe. CASA and ATSB have quit the field and won't return.
I think there are now sadly only Two options. Either iCAO or FAA step in or we will end up with Three smoking holes.
It is clear that pilots - the last line of defence, are all that is keeping the public safe. CASA and ATSB have quit the field and won't return.
Last edited by Sunfish; 30th May 2013 at 18:15.
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casa and atsb failure to interface with industry
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Perspective and timing.
It's not really certain – but after the CASA version of Hansard prompted the "addendum" version of what was really said and what was 'meant', the delay in the Hansard could be for a number of reasons. It was very noisy in the room; I noticed Heff was struggling to talk over the close proximity racket being made by the "Noise complaints" lady, which amused many. Heff eventually conceded defeat and agreed to take his concerns out of the chamber and into the back rooms with "Mike and his mates" (not John boy); later – but soon. Despite the public posturing and chest beating; I just wonder; is the Norfolk episode is going to be finalised the way it started, behind closed doors ?
The great thing about 'watching' and listening, as opposed to Hansard is that the side plays, expressions and body language are apparent. For instance; as Half baked mentioned, when the "Drone" man started his prepared set, the looks of relief, combined with the 'smooth' delivery of answers on topic, without static was in stark contrast to the stumbling, furtive responses to some questions asked by the 'opposition' during the noisier periods. The noise levels rose and fell in complete harmony with the degree of 'difficulty' a question presented. Remarkable game this one.
When the Hansard is out, for those who missed (or didn't record) the session, the potential dust up between McComic and Mac Donald will appear in dry written form, but the vision was splendid. The bully constantly glancing at the puppet master when challenged to a 'bare knuckles bout' in chamber, Sen. Searle egging them on, offering to extend the time. The confronted bully backed down of course, so it was a non event, fascinating stuff. Just have to hope now that Sen. Xenophon was not too distracted and managed to place his vexed questions on notice and like the inestimable Nash, demands prompt, respectful accurate answers.
Without the pictures, you can't see the way one D. Fawcett Esq. took advantage of the many distractions and seized the moments to slide in a quick question, or the consternation on the faces of those questioned when the 'script' was not being followed. Mrdak's face was a classic study in WTF. I'd like to play poker with some of these people, Oh, happy, happy day. Anyway – from the pen of Ben Sandilands:-
The great thing about 'watching' and listening, as opposed to Hansard is that the side plays, expressions and body language are apparent. For instance; as Half baked mentioned, when the "Drone" man started his prepared set, the looks of relief, combined with the 'smooth' delivery of answers on topic, without static was in stark contrast to the stumbling, furtive responses to some questions asked by the 'opposition' during the noisier periods. The noise levels rose and fell in complete harmony with the degree of 'difficulty' a question presented. Remarkable game this one.
When the Hansard is out, for those who missed (or didn't record) the session, the potential dust up between McComic and Mac Donald will appear in dry written form, but the vision was splendid. The bully constantly glancing at the puppet master when challenged to a 'bare knuckles bout' in chamber, Sen. Searle egging them on, offering to extend the time. The confronted bully backed down of course, so it was a non event, fascinating stuff. Just have to hope now that Sen. Xenophon was not too distracted and managed to place his vexed questions on notice and like the inestimable Nash, demands prompt, respectful accurate answers.
Without the pictures, you can't see the way one D. Fawcett Esq. took advantage of the many distractions and seized the moments to slide in a quick question, or the consternation on the faces of those questioned when the 'script' was not being followed. Mrdak's face was a classic study in WTF. I'd like to play poker with some of these people, Oh, happy, happy day. Anyway – from the pen of Ben Sandilands:-
Why can’t the Minister, Anthony Albanese, or his departmental head, Mike Mrdak, order the ATSB to convene an immediate meeting of the commissioners to consider findings and recommendations that document or respond to a totally deficient air accident report issued by the ATSB, and the nastiness of Commonwealth authorities covering up the administrative failures of CASA to oversight an operator it subsequently audited as unsafe and scapegoat a pilot?
It’s rare for departmental secretaries to volunteer information about Ministerial reactions to issues in advance, but Mike Mrdak, Secretary of the Department of Infrastructure and transport, did this for his Minister, Anthony Albanese tonight.
Mrdak, who appeared with CASA Director of Safety, John McCormick at Senate Estimates hearings, said he could confirm that the Minister “certainly understands the urgency of the need to respond to the report”, referring to last weeks highly critical Senate committee inquiry findings and recommendations in relation the ATSB final report into the Pel-Air ditching near Norfolk Island on 18 November 2009.
He said he had held a preliminary meeting with Minister Albanese concerning the report, and would meet again within a week in relation to an initial response to its contents. My bold - Ben's link.
Mrdak, who appeared with CASA Director of Safety, John McCormick at Senate Estimates hearings, said he could confirm that the Minister “certainly understands the urgency of the need to respond to the report”, referring to last weeks highly critical Senate committee inquiry findings and recommendations in relation the ATSB final report into the Pel-Air ditching near Norfolk Island on 18 November 2009.
He said he had held a preliminary meeting with Minister Albanese concerning the report, and would meet again within a week in relation to an initial response to its contents. My bold - Ben's link.
Last edited by Kharon; 30th May 2013 at 21:10. Reason: Spoon or shovel ?? we do have both.
The reason for the delay in publication of the Estimates Hansard is that the House has been sitting as well as half a dozen or so Senate Committees this week, and Chamber Hansard takes priority over Committee Hansard.
Last edited by Creampuff; 30th May 2013 at 22:21.
Half throttle for reform and DAS makeover continues!
Bought the Oz newspaper this morning…sat down and flipped to the legal affairs/aviation/sports section…lo and behold it wasn’t there??
Flip..flip..flip.. finally it was in the main section of the paper…sign of the times perhaps??
However once discovered I was immediately glad I hadn’t had my breakfast cause there was the DAS beaming out at me…hmm it would appear the ‘extreme makeover’ continues…
Most of the article was a total rehash of what he has been prattling on about in recent times and all the delays to reg reform can mostly be blamed on the minority group the IOS…go figure? I did like this bit however:
Which he totally ignored in his usual sociopath fashion
(a leopard can't change its spots!)….hmm however there was a more interesting article much smaller but with a far more relevant message to this thread
:
Oh well doin a Kelpie and cutting out photos for the 'IOS' club dart board!
Flip..flip..flip.. finally it was in the main section of the paper…sign of the times perhaps??However once discovered I was immediately glad I hadn’t had my breakfast cause there was the DAS beaming out at me…hmm it would appear the ‘extreme makeover’ continues…
Most of the article was a total rehash of what he has been prattling on about in recent times and all the delays to reg reform can mostly be blamed on the minority group the IOS…go figure? I did like this bit however:
Longstanding criticism about the number of years it has taken to rewrite the rules has been accompanied by complaints from pilots and some industry groups about a lack of consultation and claims by smaller players the organisation was belligerent and intimidating.
Groups involved in the Australian Aviation Associations Forum have called for a restructuring of CASA under which its regulatory reform functions would be hived off and taken into the Department of Infrastructure and Transport. The AAAF also wanted more representation on the CASA board and more industry-friendly policies from government.
More recently a Senate committee report criticised CASA for failing to hand on to safety investigators details of problems it had found during an audit of Pel Air and expressed concerns about the number of people wanting to give evidence in camera because of fear of retribution.
More recently a Senate committee report criticised CASA for failing to hand on to safety investigators details of problems it had found during an audit of Pel Air and expressed concerns about the number of people wanting to give evidence in camera because of fear of retribution.
(a leopard can't change its spots!)….hmm however there was a more interesting article much smaller but with a far more relevant message to this thread:
Safety compromised by cuts in the budget
THE Australian Transport Safety Bureau, already the subject of criticism over its handling of a delayed accident report, is under pressure to cut more staff because of government budget cuts.
ATSB chief commissioner Martin Dolan told a Senate estimates committee on Wednesday that cuts to the bureau's budget would mean it would have to reduce staff across time. "That means that we have to be very focused on what matters we choose to investigate in the future, conscious of the risk of missing something important to safety, and in some cases we may need to constrain the investigation because of the call on our resources," Mr Dolan said.
The ATSB's total annual appropriation is expected to drop to $19.82 million in 2013-14 from $21.76m this financial year.
Mr Dolan said the reduced budget was a result of "whole-of-government cuts" that had been applied proportionately to the ATSB without consultation.
The organisation had not been asked to outline the consequences of the move, he said in answer to a question by David Fawcett.
Senator Fawcett accused the government of a serious dereliction of duty given Transport Minister Anthony Albanese's 2008 comments that nothing was as important as aviation safety. He said last week's Senate report into the 2009 Pel-Air ditching of an air ambulance off Norfolk Island highlighted the unintended consequences of cutting funds to a safety agency.
Opposition transport spokesman Warren Truss called on the government for a quick response to the Senate committee investigation, describing it as "disturbing reading" that raised serious issues of process.
The federal government has declared it has full confidence in Australia's aviation safety agencies, despite the damning report. The report issued 26 recommendations and raised concerns about the way the ATSB handled its investigation as well as the failure of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to give information to the bureau.
It identified problems with investigative and regulatory procedures, funding and reporting, and called for the investigation to be reopened, warning some deficiencies could breach Australian law and our international obligations.
Mr Truss called on Mr Albanese to "restore public confidence in our accident investigatory bodies and deal with the concerns raised in the inquiry as a matter of urgency".
"People have every right to expect world's best practice when it comes to aviation safety, which includes comprehensive investigation and reporting of incidents. The community is entitled to have confidence in our aviation safety regulations."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/safety-compromised-by-cuts-in-the-budget/story-e6frg95x-1226654026918
ATSB chief commissioner Martin Dolan told a Senate estimates committee on Wednesday that cuts to the bureau's budget would mean it would have to reduce staff across time. "That means that we have to be very focused on what matters we choose to investigate in the future, conscious of the risk of missing something important to safety, and in some cases we may need to constrain the investigation because of the call on our resources," Mr Dolan said.
The ATSB's total annual appropriation is expected to drop to $19.82 million in 2013-14 from $21.76m this financial year.
Mr Dolan said the reduced budget was a result of "whole-of-government cuts" that had been applied proportionately to the ATSB without consultation.
The organisation had not been asked to outline the consequences of the move, he said in answer to a question by David Fawcett.
Senator Fawcett accused the government of a serious dereliction of duty given Transport Minister Anthony Albanese's 2008 comments that nothing was as important as aviation safety. He said last week's Senate report into the 2009 Pel-Air ditching of an air ambulance off Norfolk Island highlighted the unintended consequences of cutting funds to a safety agency.
Opposition transport spokesman Warren Truss called on the government for a quick response to the Senate committee investigation, describing it as "disturbing reading" that raised serious issues of process.
The federal government has declared it has full confidence in Australia's aviation safety agencies, despite the damning report. The report issued 26 recommendations and raised concerns about the way the ATSB handled its investigation as well as the failure of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to give information to the bureau.
It identified problems with investigative and regulatory procedures, funding and reporting, and called for the investigation to be reopened, warning some deficiencies could breach Australian law and our international obligations.
Mr Truss called on Mr Albanese to "restore public confidence in our accident investigatory bodies and deal with the concerns raised in the inquiry as a matter of urgency".
"People have every right to expect world's best practice when it comes to aviation safety, which includes comprehensive investigation and reporting of incidents. The community is entitled to have confidence in our aviation safety regulations."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/safety-compromised-by-cuts-in-the-budget/story-e6frg95x-1226654026918
Last edited by Sarcs; 31st May 2013 at 00:41.
Lookleft, you truly are one of the most pride filled arrogant Posters I have seen in some time. Pull your head in and grow up.
Kharon may be somewhat unique in his approach or speech, but so what, we aren't all robots. The bloke has put in tireless amounts of work to expose the ills of our industry, with the goal of getting the system fixed once and for all, which unfortunately includes highlighting how fu#ked CASA, ATSB and the Government are.If you jump on line and throw mud expect to have it thrown back, and when that happens please don't act like a skirt.
Kharon may be somewhat unique in his approach or speech, but so what, we aren't all robots. The bloke has put in tireless amounts of work to expose the ills of our industry, with the goal of getting the system fixed once and for all, which unfortunately includes highlighting how fu#ked CASA, ATSB and the Government are.If you jump on line and throw mud expect to have it thrown back, and when that happens please don't act like a skirt.
After your attack dog approach to FONC several pages back I don't intend to sit back and let you or Kharon or anyone else of the "in crowd" get away with what amounts to cyber bullying. You are in fact no better than the DAS in your approach to criticism.
Back to the thread
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Looky Loo – you will try to notice that neither I nor many others critique yours, or anyone else's posts. We do not act as literary critics or the passers of opinion on the form and content of a post. Further, to your information: I could care less (if I tried really hard) about what some literary geniuses think of what I choose to post or not post, (as the muse descends). However, I do find it grossly offensive when some plonker strolls in and starts arrogantly banging on that "we", the humble 'ills of society' have not provided this person a précis of complex events which satisfies "his" most important, pressing needs and providing instant gratification. So, in short: I do reserve the right to be cranky with bumptiousness and I will never, ever resile the right to defend myself. Since when was it anyone's fault that some did not watch the Senate broadcast and therefore, fail (in this case miserably) to understand my post, in context when and as writ ?. You can always simply just ignore it; but no! Chummy then proceeds to have a whack. Well whack away, but do not get all precious when you get a whack back.
So please, as you consistently and constantly imply that you could do so much better; do us a favour. Write an opinion piece on the last Estimates hearing, publish it right here; and, allow us to make such comments and judgements as we may. Two options as I see it; put up or shut up. Your call Cochise.
Steam off : Diversion over - No further correspondence will be entered into......
So please, as you consistently and constantly imply that you could do so much better; do us a favour. Write an opinion piece on the last Estimates hearing, publish it right here; and, allow us to make such comments and judgements as we may. Two options as I see it; put up or shut up. Your call Cochise.
Steam off : Diversion over - No further correspondence will be entered into......
Last edited by Kharon; 31st May 2013 at 02:13. Reason: Why is it always Friday ???
Yet underneath your hissy fit of a post
Creamy just posts a link to Hansard which was all that was being asked for.
No you don't, you have your Goon Squad do that for you. If they don't agree with you or the dribble you post they are tainted as obviously being pro-CASA and therefor part of the problem.
Advice that you should apply to yourself after this effort:
On this we agree, and as have I have mentioned to those who have PM'd me to suggest that this is the most important thread known to man, if you want to play the man instead of the ball then take your best shot.
Am happy to keep going in this line of posting or move back to the main topic of the thread- your choice.
601; So lets get this straight, you were too idle to record it, too lazy to get the Hansard and the two Ben Sandilands pieces provided (1939) just don't fulfil your expectations; then you expect me to make it all better. Please – let me change my bags lest you dirty your dainty foot kicking my arse 'cos your too bloody idle to do some reading. Well pardon me.
or the passers of opinion on the form and content of a post.
but do not get all precious when you get a whack back.
Please – let me change my bags lest you dirty your dainty foot kicking my arse 'cos your too bloody idle to do some reading. Well pardon me.
I do reserve the right to be cranky with bumptiousness and I will never, ever resile the right to defend myself
Am happy to keep going in this line of posting or move back to the main topic of the thread- your choice.