Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Seconded! .

[owen meaney]

The Senate is not able to "tell" ATSB or CASA to do anyting.
This is a fools errand, called by a fool.

[Frank Arouet]

Senate Estimates can make recommendations which if ignored gives the accusers the right to say "I told you so" when the smoking hole,..... if and when it happens, settles down to a political pig swill.

I'm not sure Senator Xenaphon is the bloke to take this to it's conclusion given he may be a misogynyst by current standards, (in Marrickville anyway).

[Sarcs]

In regards to the Senate Estimates yesterday maybe here lies the truth of the lack of Senatorial engagement, also shows Senator Fawcett has not forgotten that Mr Mrdak owes the Senator an answer (see post #464):

Senator FAWCETT: Chair, given the inquiry on Monday I do not actually have a huge number of questions, except to follow up something with Mr Mrdak. Last time we spoke about closing the loop between ATSB recommendations and CASA following through with regulation as a consequential change within a certain time frame. The view was expressed that it was not necessarily a departmental role to have that closed loop system. I challenged that at the time. I just welcome any comment you may have three or four months down the track as to whether there has been any further thought within your department as to how we make sure we have a closed loop system for recommendations that come out of the ATSB.

Mr Mrdak: It is something we are doing further work on in response to your concerns. We recognise that we do need to ensure the integrity of the investigatory response and then the regulatory response. So it is something we are looking at closely. I and the other chief executives in the portfolio will do some further work on that area.

Senator FAWCETT: Do you have a time frame on when you might be able to report back to the committee?

Mr Mrdak: Not as yet. I will come back to you on notice with some more detail.

Senator FAWCETT: If I could invite you to come back to the chair perhaps with a date for a briefing to the committee, outside of the estimates process, as to how you might implement that.

Mr Mrdak: Yes.

Senator FAWCETT: Because the work by ATSB is almost nugatory if you do not have a closed loop system that makes sure it is implemented in a timely manner.

Mr Mrdak: We will come back to you on that.

CHAIR: There are no further questions. I will take this up with the committee—there is an inquiry. It is always my fear that we have a rush of senators who want to ask questions and we drag you in here and keep you sitting here all day and there are no questions. I apologise to you Mr Dolan.

Mr Dolan: There will be further inquiries on Monday?

"ATSB is almost nugatory" Kind of sums up the bureau quite nicely really!

[Kharon]

The vibe rules.

Hansard for the estimates tells a happy, though slightly twisted story. The 'peppering' Mrdak got was, of it's self 'interesting'. Several Senators hinted that perhaps the whole truth, and nothing but the truth had not been told regarding several, important, expensive matters the Minister is, ultimately responsible for. Barnaby Joyce kicks it off question 1, page 1.

I have no doubt that Mike Mrdak is, of himself, an honest, honourable, intelligent and fair minded man; but he has an invidious job at the moment given the political climate. But that is of politics. He is, without a doubt a clever, educated, consummate public servant and, to his credit, sticks to doing a tough job, very well.

But, is he compromised? I think the estimates committee let him know the answer to that. All in Hansard, have a read (160 odd pages). Is the trade off - for him not to become 'involved' in the inquiry starting on the 22nd (Monday)? Why?, because of the above. Will he let them swing? course he will.

My favourite bit was when 'he who must not be named' swaggered in, without his usual mates, looking for and expecting a dustup. Never happened, up front; but when Senator Fawcett says "Boo" (moving offices all settled in comfy like?) the adrenalin surges, he drops his duds and gives away revenue gouged from FOI travelling time; just like that. Bollocks. Simply mis timed the answer, primed as he was.

Point is, dropping the $2.66 per hour travelling time is chicken feed; by decimating the ATO body, the only way an aspirant PPL, CPL or rating holder can get a renewal (test) without a long wait is now through CASA, at $750 a pop. The average pilot working in the industry may earn $750 for a day and half of blood, sweat and tears (I know, for some a lot less). The average "Wannabes" will simply shake their heads and either walk away or wait.

Sweetie (Mummy's busy); It costs more to make this work than it can possibly generate in 'affordable' revenue, let alone support the cost of it. All Bollocks.

But hey, what the hell; stick around for the inquiry. Bloody sure I will.

[gobbledock]

Smoke signals

It is something we are doing further work on in response to your concerns. We recognise that we do need to ensure the integrity of the investigatory response and then the regulatory
response. So it is something we are looking at closely. I and the other chief executives in the portfolio will do some further work on that area.
Senator FAWCETT:
Do you have a time frame on when you might be able to report back to the committee?
Mr Mrdak: Not as yet. I will come back to you on notice with some more detail.

Amazing ballsy response and successful attempt at buying time. But this is a pony pooh charade that needs to be reigned in, the tail is wagging the dog. I know we have some ballsy Senators in the Senate, Lord Xenaphon, Fawcett, Heff, so may I suggest good Senators respectfully that you please NO LONGER accept the time stretching fact dodging spin loaded ****e that all these clowns are feeding you.
You Senators wait 4 months for a straight forward set of answers and all you get is "Not as yet. I will come back to you on notice with some more detail" and "It is something we are looking at closely. I and the other chief executives in the portfolio will do some further work on that area".

Not good enough I am afraid, it is time to tear these spin doctors some new a#sholes. Tick tock time is up, answer the f#king questions please. The day has arrived when all these ****e needs to be promulgated back down the throat of the ASA, CASA, ATSB, Department and immediate answers to the questions be supplied. These departments need to stop pulling the Senators d#cks and smarten up. To date they have not even indicated a sparrow sh#t worth of effort to comply with senate requests, questions or anything relevant. The longer this crap goes on the longer the industry is getting mighty pi#sed off. There is a dedicated element out there who will not let things go this time, no more no longer. We will monitor, follow, expose and keep pounding away until changes are introduced. Nobody is slinking away this time, we aint going to stop until these issues which are endangering our families and ourselves are dealt with.
Tick tock

"ATSB is almost nugatory"

Possible Willyleaks definition;
Nugatory: Refer to Nugget. Nugatory as in Nugget, brown, pooh. Also refer to ASA, CASA, ATSB. "The act of unsuccessfully polishing the turd" (Turd polishing refer to Australian Government departments).
#References or evidence of Nugatory can also be sighted in departmental media releases, Ministerial briefings and CASA/ATSB/ASA reports, senate responses and other assorted bureaucratic documents.

[Up-into-the-air]

ATSB + nugatory

nu·ga·to·ry (ng-tôr, -tr, ny-)adj.

1. Of little or no importance; trifling.
2. Having no force; invalid. See Synonyms at vain.

[Latin nugatorius, from nugator, trifler, from ngr, to trifle, from ngae, jokes.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


Think I like Gobbles definition better!!

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Submissions

Six submissions have been published. Atsb and casa among those. It makes no mention of any confidential submissions as previous inquiries did.

Senate Committees – Parliament of Australia

Very light?

[Kharon]

Heads will roll.

What's the betting, CASA will after the Norfolk enquiry initiate a 'robust' series of special audit into 'fuel policy'. Companies will obligingly provide their accepted manuals, CASA will audit and heads will roll. "There now, Minister all done" declares the watch dog, "we grounded four turtle doves and a partridge in a pear tree, not too bad, eh?" "Ain't we just the bees knees". Wags it's tail and trots off into the bushes for a well earned slash.

Ahem: Problem here boys, you accepted the flight and fuel planning policy as part of your issuing the operating certificate. "Look here" says Bloggs Aviation "your letters stating that these parts needed to be modified and amended, so CASA could be 'satisfied', we did and you were". QED. "We have operated to that policy, look at our documents here". "Now after auditing the manual you approved, we are in breach of the regulations?". (Robust) Bollocks.

It really is a very silly system, when you think on it for while. Gods help the Senate. Will they swallow a robust declaration to examine everyone's fuel policy??. Gee I hope not.

HMHB # 477 - Six submissions have been published.

I hear on the drums that the real fight will be indoors, out of school hours so as not to embarrass the poor sensitive little souls. Heigh Ho.

[dogcharlietree]

Six submissions have been published. Atsb and casa among those. It makes no mention of any confidential submissions as previous inquiries did.

Submissions deemed "Confidential" by the Committee, are not listed on the committee website. Why, I do not know

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Looking at the schedule it shows Mick Quinn ex DCEO of CASA who left shortly after the new director started being called. This should be an interesting one to watch.

But is it going to be:

[Sarcs]

HMHB it might be a case of.."hear no evil, speak no evil!"

I note that Geoff Klouth, who gave a very ballsy display at the last Senate Inquiry, is giving evidence this time on behalf of AIPA.

Geoff will give evidence from a very unique perspective as he spent a year or so with the ATSB in 2005-2006 as a Senior TSI.

He was also very outspoken about the 'culture' within Jet*, it will be interesting to see if he thinks things have improved since??

WTF?? What's with the "CASA Accident Investigation Report 09/3" being imbedded within a 102 page attachment that largely deals with the history and various versions of the MOU?? Is their no steps too low that these numbnuts will stoop to??

[Sarcs]

Parallel Universe!

Airtex, like Tiger Airways and Polar Aviation were denied, administratively the right to continue operations under their CASA approved systems.

Seems to be a standard 'modus operandi' for the regulator regardless of whether you have a high, medium capacity AOC or a bog standard GA AOC your potentially fare game if you haven't 'paid the Piper'.

Some what related in a parallel universe I see that Tiger have done their pennance:

It is hardly something Tiger’s Australian division would want to draw attention to, but it has just been issued with a new air operator certificate which carries none of the restrictions imposed on its after its five week safety grounding in the middle of last year.
Tiger Airways Australia has today been issued with a new Air Operators Certificate (AOC) by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority of Australia (CASA) without any restrictions associated with the 2011 grounding.
The airline had previously been operating on an AOC with certain conditions imposed.
“This is a significant milestone for Tiger Airways,” said Andrew David, CEO of the Tiger Airways Australia. “Over the last year, we have worked hard to ensure that Tiger is second to none for safety, reliability and punctuality. Today’s news reflects our close working relationship with CASA and ongoing commitment to operational excellence.”
The major question now is how safe the other Australian carriers will be from its expansion plans.

Tiger claims to be the only true low fare airline in the country. It’s natural competitor is Qantas owned Jetstar, but for most of this year, the ferocity of the air fare fight on Australia’s domestic routes has seen the full service brands offer many of their seats at low price levels that left Jetstar and Tiger with little room to move.

Tiger has previously said it is prepared to tough it out and focus and growth and reliability rather than profitability, if it has to.

With its safety restrictions removed, Tiger can now lift the daily hours and sectors flown by its A320s, which should lower its costs per seat kilometre enough to cut or eliminate its recent losses, meaning it has regained the ability to hurt its competitors more than it hurt itself by failing to comply with Australian safety requirements.

Tiger Australia safety restrictions lifted | Plane Talking

So I wonder how long it'll be before the 'Piper' comes knocking??

Charles Darwin once said.. "We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act."

[Sarcs]

Top article MB!

One way ticket, or return to sanity? – aviationadvertiser.com.au

Well worth a read and very relevant given the inquiry tomorrow, timely posting PP!

George Bernard Shaw: "If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must Man be of learning from experience."

[AEROMEDIC]

As usual, nothing will be done, as all stakeholders will jockey for positions so they will have a chair when the music stops.

[Kharon]

Baston and Phelan.

MB has provided some wonderful, sensible articles and always makes good sense. The articles takes me back to a time when these things were possible. I can without too much fear of contradiction state that most of my operational mentoring was conducted by some great DCA and CAA fellahin; who's names I will not mention.

The first I met looked at me over a cuppa and said "Chief pilot?'. "Yup" says I, innocent like. "Well sort this mess out and I'll see you in three weeks"; throws telephone sized book in my general direction. "Wuzzat" says I, mystified. "It's your show, your manual, you sort it out". End of interview. (not even a biccie that visit).

Three weeks later, office cleaned, coffee made, boots shined and a clean shirt (even pressed it), in rolls 'the man'. Well, it was a long, tough day but I can still remember very well despite the pounding; the patient, well taught lessons I learned that day.

From that time onward DCA and CAA were a respected, liked and dare I say, a slightly admired lot; every good mentor I ever had came from that rare breed.

Then after Seaview came CASA, then after Lockhart came the creature from the swamps 'the Ayatollah' (I ah todal git, Yuk); then Byron who was at least approachable and tried very hard (did I forget Dick ? – Yup); then we got 'He who will not be named', paraded about by the 'Golden West Mafia' as 'the solution'.

I wonder if the damage can ever be repaired. I have and still do talk to some of the 'old guard', they don't get it either. The "C" word is banned at home (old man goes all peculiar, silent and dangerous to mess with).

Much as I do, without a seconds thought support totally what Maurie says, I wonder can we ever achieve what the rest of the world takes for granted, a working relationship with a regulator we trust, an ATSB we can believe in and a world where the only griping on PpRune is about Qantas.

It will take a brave, special person to heal the rift, clean out the corrupt, fire the incompetent, purge the lazy (names and addresses can be supplied) and bring the name of 'the authority' to mean anything else but "Oh ****, the bastards are here again, count the bloody paper clips".

Thanks to AA and PDP for publishing a great article, but I worry; 1984 is much closer to the mark. But; we live in hope.

Selah.

[Kharon]

Second verse

Aero #485 - As usual, nothing will be done, as all stakeholders will jockey for positions so they will have a chair when the music stops.

But, perhaps the music this time 'is' a little different. I reckon the guitar riff at the end is the best, ever.

Monday music ?

[gobbledock]

Mr Quinn has 31 years' experience in the aviation industry, including as manager of air safety investigations at Qantas and as senior vice-president of safety at Emirates.
He has been assisting Captain James, who he has known for two decades, on a voluntary basis – including helping him to regain his pilot's licence.
Mr Quinn was also deputy chief executive of CASA until 2009.
He confirmed that those in the accident were considering taking legal action against Pel-Air.

Quinn's testimony will be interesting, however will his testimony be unbiased? After all he did get pineappled by The Skull and has no doubt been itching for payback. I just hope Quinn also goes after other senior people who contributed to his being stitched up by Mr Skull. But in my opinion to rely on Quinn's testimony alone is risky. Anybody who knows him well would know what I am talking about.

An independent safety expert, Bryan Aherne, told the committee today that he believed Captain James had been "singled out grossly unfairly".
He said the draft reports had "been completely changed" from the final report, "where we go from one situation where the operator [Pel Air] had limited oversight of its operations, and it was completely changed, to the operator complied".
"We need to have transparency into how the ATSB came to that finding in such a short time," he said. "CASA and the ATSB must necessarily co-operate but it doesn't mean they lie in the same bed."
Mr Aherne also said that the ATSB had not mentioned in its final report the failure of the plane's lifejacket lights. "How that information is omitted is bizarre," he said.

Again, Aherne has worked for both CASA and ATSB and he is also somewhat a disgruntled ex employee who particularly dislikes CASA. His partner is part owner in a company that took legal action against CASA and won so I can't help but wonder what all of his motives may be?

Either way, the fireworks may be thrilling, so it may be time to buy some beer, grab some popcorn and invite some mates (and maybe even Flyingfiend) around to watch the action.
One thing is for sure, there will be more lies, spin and enough pony pooh spread to adequately cover the South Pole!!

[dogcharlietree]

Been watching it on webcast this arvo.
Very enlightening (and embarrassing).
Senator Fawcett (from memory) said that there was about a ream of confidential papers.

[Frank Arouet]

The CASA crew came with the 2IC and the witchdoctor and got grilled by Fawcett. Only the psycopath showed any promise and the other two were first place for loosers. Heffernan put the boot in as did a few others.

Marty was at odds with the facts and showed how ineffective ATSB are in the big scheme of things. Blamed a lack of cash and slightly touched on CASA as possibly blameworthy.

It all went "in camera" when the good folks from PPRUNE- PAIN were shuffled in, so I guess we will hear a muffled version of events lest someone be held in contempt.