Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
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After the dispute, QE (Gavin Harris in fact)
Let’s look at our reality for a moment. The world has never seen so many crises - volcanoes, earthquakes, nuclear threats, tsunamis,
For the rest of the dribble, sounds very much like the rubbish Cox and Dixon threatened us with a couple of years ago.
Dear Senior Management - LAMEs are inherently fair, that's why you hear we 'love the airline and fixing planes blah blah blah'. After having to tolerate the revolving circus at the top for years, stop f##king us around and give us a fair agreement. There's not much more to it.
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chris seems to be a nice enough guy
Heard all the same crap before the last PIA. This is why this PIA is so important to us. We need to drive home the msg that either our management must change, or we must change our management.
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How about we get a legally binding commitment from the company that we will not lose any backpay if we allow negotiations to continue and in return we do not go down the path of PIA?
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Quill
Your showing a hand of trust.
Something that is alien to Qantas management and it's Board.
Our failing, is our continual hope that things will turn around for the better, only to be bluntly reminded about our dire position in this competitive world by an overpaid management team who will not be around as we keep living in the mess they have created.
Your showing a hand of trust.
Something that is alien to Qantas management and it's Board.
Our failing, is our continual hope that things will turn around for the better, only to be bluntly reminded about our dire position in this competitive world by an overpaid management team who will not be around as we keep living in the mess they have created.
Chris, help me help you.
Chris,
You seem like a nice guy and I applaud your genuine efforts to get out and about amongst the staff. But really, what am I supposed to think about the company’s commitment to reaching agreement when they haven’t put any type of offer on the table after some 6 months of negotiation? You say that it has taken a long time to assess the alaea’s claim and that may be true, but why has your team not had an alternative to offer up? To my mind, it’s either they don’t have any idea what they really want or they are sticking to carefully planned strategy to frustrate and antagonise. To what end, I can’t fathom. Either way it doesn’t reflect what you seem to stand for. Or maybe I’ve got it all wrong.
You say you’re disappointed that the alaea applied for ballot to pia. So am I. Why does it have to come to this? Your team is forcing me to take a position that I don’t really want to have to take. But wheels are now in motion and positions will be taken. This could have been delayed or even avoided so easily. If your team just said “we are still assessing the cost of your claims, but in the meantime, here is an alternative offer that we will be communicating to the staff”, I’m sure we would not be voting for pia in the next week or so.
I can only assume that this is the path your team wanted to take.
You say an offer from the company is now imminent. My cynicism tells me that this offer was never going to be made until the alaea took the steps toward pia ballot.
I want to believe you Chris, I really do. I hope for all concerned the imminent company offer is a real gamechanger.
You seem like a nice guy and I applaud your genuine efforts to get out and about amongst the staff. But really, what am I supposed to think about the company’s commitment to reaching agreement when they haven’t put any type of offer on the table after some 6 months of negotiation? You say that it has taken a long time to assess the alaea’s claim and that may be true, but why has your team not had an alternative to offer up? To my mind, it’s either they don’t have any idea what they really want or they are sticking to carefully planned strategy to frustrate and antagonise. To what end, I can’t fathom. Either way it doesn’t reflect what you seem to stand for. Or maybe I’ve got it all wrong.
You say you’re disappointed that the alaea applied for ballot to pia. So am I. Why does it have to come to this? Your team is forcing me to take a position that I don’t really want to have to take. But wheels are now in motion and positions will be taken. This could have been delayed or even avoided so easily. If your team just said “we are still assessing the cost of your claims, but in the meantime, here is an alternative offer that we will be communicating to the staff”, I’m sure we would not be voting for pia in the next week or so.
I can only assume that this is the path your team wanted to take.
You say an offer from the company is now imminent. My cynicism tells me that this offer was never going to be made until the alaea took the steps toward pia ballot.
I want to believe you Chris, I really do. I hope for all concerned the imminent company offer is a real gamechanger.
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How about we get a legally binding commitment from the company that we will not lose any backpay if we allow negotiations to continue and in return we do not go down the path of PIA?
Qantas, will you sign a document declaring that you will not take away our back pay and we will not take PIA? Sure sign here.
April 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
May 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
June 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
July 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
August 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Sept 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Oct 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Nov 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Dec 2011 - Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Feb 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Mar 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
April 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
May 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
June 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
July 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
August 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Sept 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Oct 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Nov 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Dec 2012 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Feb 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
March 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
April 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
May 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
June 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
July 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
August 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Sept 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Oct 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Nov 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Dec 2013 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
Feb 2014 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
March 2014 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
April 2014 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
May 2014 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
June 2014 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
July 2014 -Do you have an offer for us today? - No
About this stage you would most likely be wondering what to do to get them to put an offer on the table. You may consider taking PIA because by then you would have realised that there is absolutely nothing that compels them to make an offer apart from this. Guess what? That's right you can't because of some stupid document you signed.
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Fed Sec ,
Isn't it your job to get an offer ? Is that not your KPI ? get an outcome . So why is it taking so long ? By the way , I hear CN has no bottle and will role over as soon as you start taking action . The management are split with the Neville Chamberlins in control so a goood touch up boys will see you there . But , if the appeasers lose control watch out , the nasties will do a slash and burn job. But , why has it got to this , prior to 2006 the LAME's got most of what they wanted by merely being LAME's , now you have to shed blood for everything.mmmmmmmmmmmmm , maybe the leader is believing his own B*lls*it.
Isn't it your job to get an offer ? Is that not your KPI ? get an outcome . So why is it taking so long ? By the way , I hear CN has no bottle and will role over as soon as you start taking action . The management are split with the Neville Chamberlins in control so a goood touch up boys will see you there . But , if the appeasers lose control watch out , the nasties will do a slash and burn job. But , why has it got to this , prior to 2006 the LAME's got most of what they wanted by merely being LAME's , now you have to shed blood for everything.mmmmmmmmmmmmm , maybe the leader is believing his own B*lls*it.
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Point taken.
I suppose to add to my previous suggestion, if the company is close to putting an offer on the table as they say, the agreement could have a time limit of another month. All back pay would be guaranteed up to that point and no pia would be taken.
After this date the gloves would be off - pia can be taken and backpay from that point on only can be taken.
I suppose to add to my previous suggestion, if the company is close to putting an offer on the table as they say, the agreement could have a time limit of another month. All back pay would be guaranteed up to that point and no pia would be taken.
After this date the gloves would be off - pia can be taken and backpay from that point on only can be taken.
Quill Shaft,
I see the logic and reason in your words. However, it seems to me that the ball is already rolling. I'd suggest that the best thing to be done is to hold on, bite down and ride it out with the support of your fellow members to whatever the future holds.
The company has generally stuck by some pretty simple tactics ever since the EBA's started. Divide and conquer is one that comes to mind.
Our defence is equally simple. Unity is strength. I know it sounds corny, but it is true.
I see the logic and reason in your words. However, it seems to me that the ball is already rolling. I'd suggest that the best thing to be done is to hold on, bite down and ride it out with the support of your fellow members to whatever the future holds.
The company has generally stuck by some pretty simple tactics ever since the EBA's started. Divide and conquer is one that comes to mind.
Our defence is equally simple. Unity is strength. I know it sounds corny, but it is true.
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I suppose to add to my previous suggestion, if the company is close to putting an offer on the table as they say, the agreement could have a time limit of another month. All back pay would be guaranteed up to that point and no pia would be taken.
Nice to hear them even talking about an "offer". I don't think that would be the case without the PIA application. If the vote goes down, I doubt the "offer" will become a reality.
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1974 WTF what did Lames get pre 2006 without selling off the
Farm?
Good faith bargaining and working with 1500 varied opinions
Does pose it's challenges and take time.
Please educate us all though, what have you achieved since 1974?
Well done Steve, it's hard to keep it rational.
Farm?
Good faith bargaining and working with 1500 varied opinions
Does pose it's challenges and take time.
Please educate us all though, what have you achieved since 1974?
Well done Steve, it's hard to keep it rational.
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talkwrench,your post is so close to the mark,CN has made himself look like he is a mate and likes the LAME but his no show at the EA meetings and lack of comment on our direction is upsetting....I have listened to his talks and have been inspired by them,but now we have this situation of entering into a PIA because Qantas wont agree...to anything ....come on Chris look at the history and look at whats posted on here,you are smart enough to know thats something amiss....put it right .....the rim
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Talkwrench,
Fedsec & co have been going to these meetings for 6 months now and they know better than anyone if the company is just stringing us along or not.
I trust SP knows what he is doing so come ballot time I will vote in favour.
Like most, I dont want to go down this path hence my suggestion but it seems innevitable.
Fedsec & co have been going to these meetings for 6 months now and they know better than anyone if the company is just stringing us along or not.
I trust SP knows what he is doing so come ballot time I will vote in favour.
Like most, I dont want to go down this path hence my suggestion but it seems innevitable.
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QF Management Mantra - Downsize, Outsource, Offshore
CN could possibly believe what's in his memo, I don't know him so I'm not sure.
What I do know is:-
During the last dispute the LAMEs didn't stop providing support to Air NZ, QE management (GH) terminated the contract. They then downsized the workforce.
QE management can't put any sort of offer on the table but they can fly an 'alternative workforce' around the world giving them 'covert' training at night. Been happening since at least early February. Outsource.
Today we have seen QE management renege on the spirit, if not the letter, of the EBA signed with the Avalon LAME workforce. D-checks offshored.
Maybe CN is just a puppet, not allowed to make decisions, not fully aware of the end game. He himself states
Look at QF managements dealings with all the different groups of employees in the recent past - pilots, cabin crew, ground staff, engineers. The pattern is stall negotiations, downsize, outsource, offshore.
QF's attitude is - If our actions break the law, that's alright, let the lawyers clean up our mess i.e. Qantas freight; Cadet pilot program; LAME overseas posting allowances; Fair Work Australia Jetconnect hearing; Sunstate Engineers 'buggery' campaign.
Crash or crash through!! - Seems to be the company motto.
What I do know is:-
During the last dispute the LAMEs didn't stop providing support to Air NZ, QE management (GH) terminated the contract. They then downsized the workforce.
QE management can't put any sort of offer on the table but they can fly an 'alternative workforce' around the world giving them 'covert' training at night. Been happening since at least early February. Outsource.
Today we have seen QE management renege on the spirit, if not the letter, of the EBA signed with the Avalon LAME workforce. D-checks offshored.
Maybe CN is just a puppet, not allowed to make decisions, not fully aware of the end game. He himself states
We need to run it by legal and finance for approval and of course get ExCo’s sign off.
QF's attitude is - If our actions break the law, that's alright, let the lawyers clean up our mess i.e. Qantas freight; Cadet pilot program; LAME overseas posting allowances; Fair Work Australia Jetconnect hearing; Sunstate Engineers 'buggery' campaign.
Crash or crash through!! - Seems to be the company motto.
Last edited by Millet Fanger; 18th Mar 2011 at 21:59.
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Dear Chris,
Thank you for going to the trouble of writing your letter. Most of what you have written rings true and some is utter crap you've obviously been fed by your understudies. (your opinions on what lead to the loss of third party contracts within QF demonstrates this).
I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt as, even though I haven't met you myself, alot of people who's opinions I value say you're a fairly straight shooter.
I too am upset that it has come to a vote for PIA but I can assure you my vote will be in favour of it.
I suggest it's time to step up mate. Start attending the EA meetings and pull these a$$clowns you'e sending to negotiate into line.
I'm sure you don't want to be remembered as the bloke who achieved little more than a few new coats of paint on some old hangars at Mascot...
regards, JA1
Thank you for going to the trouble of writing your letter. Most of what you have written rings true and some is utter crap you've obviously been fed by your understudies. (your opinions on what lead to the loss of third party contracts within QF demonstrates this).
I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt as, even though I haven't met you myself, alot of people who's opinions I value say you're a fairly straight shooter.
I too am upset that it has come to a vote for PIA but I can assure you my vote will be in favour of it.
I suggest it's time to step up mate. Start attending the EA meetings and pull these a$$clowns you'e sending to negotiate into line.
I'm sure you don't want to be remembered as the bloke who achieved little more than a few new coats of paint on some old hangars at Mascot...
regards, JA1
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Questions for Chris
After reading your memo a few questions sprung to mind.
1) Who cancelled the Other Operator’s contracts without warning? Do you blame the LAMEs?
2) Why did Qantas management take the Jetstar engineering work to a third party MRO?
3) Does Qantas not have the resources to cost the ALAEA’s log of claims in under 6 months?
4) If “it’s a different world” why do Qantas use the same tactics during every negotiation?
5) Is your offer “imminent”? - you have 20 days to present it before any action can be taken.
1) Who cancelled the Other Operator’s contracts without warning? Do you blame the LAMEs?
2) Why did Qantas management take the Jetstar engineering work to a third party MRO?
3) Does Qantas not have the resources to cost the ALAEA’s log of claims in under 6 months?
4) If “it’s a different world” why do Qantas use the same tactics during every negotiation?
5) Is your offer “imminent”? - you have 20 days to present it before any action can be taken.
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1) Who cancelled the Other Operator’s contracts without warning? Do you blame the LAMEs?
Pure Bugary, nothing more - nothing less.
“imminent”?
We should play them at their own game, like when Dixon took his staff travel offer off the table. Because they have strung us along this far, lets take all our flexibilities off the table. All the way with PIA.
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I think the easiest (and shortest) way to find an agreement would be to bar the contractor (I.O.) that is getting payed by the hour from attending EA meetings.
Tell Qantas that we will only deal with Qantas - not guns for hire.
Tell Qantas that we will only deal with Qantas - not guns for hire.
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Allow the lames to retort
Chris has replied with an email that does nothing more to engage staff then to inflame them.
The first priority as usual for all lames is ensure the safety of the general flying public and be concious to act in the utmost proffesional manner while debate rages over talk of PIA and ea negotiations.
The first priority as usual for all lames is ensure the safety of the general flying public and be concious to act in the utmost proffesional manner while debate rages over talk of PIA and ea negotiations.