Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problems in Aviation stem from the conditions in GA.
But, what is happening to airline pilot T&Cs is happening all around the world - and has been happening, slowly and gradually, in stops and starts, since the birth of commercial aviation in the 1920s. Well before any little GA pilot decided to pay for his own endorsement!
First fix the GA award so it can become a sustainable career that offers rewards greater than working at Coles.
Your future T&C's are within your own hands, no one else.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: DSS-46 (Canberra Region)
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Folks,
This thread is drifting yet again off the topic. There are innumerable general T&C threads running at the mo', to which you're most welcome to contribute.
Please keep to the topic at hand, which is a meeting regarding the offshoring of Australian airline jobs.
This thread is drifting yet again off the topic. There are innumerable general T&C threads running at the mo', to which you're most welcome to contribute.
Please keep to the topic at hand, which is a meeting regarding the offshoring of Australian airline jobs.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: some dive
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATTENTION AIPA
Why is it that the meeting which will be probably the largest gathering of pilot's for many years is AFTER the election? Quite conveniently the Monday 2 days after the Saturday election. This is a golden opportunity to expose what this government and management are complicit to in off shoring AUSTRALIAN jobs and yet the opportunity to expose this through media etc is being squandered.This is a PRE election issue, NOT a POST election. No doubt AIPA don't want to upset the labor party and affect their votes BEFORE the election. The labor government have been aware of this practice for years with Cabin Crew via the FAAA and individual complaints to Gillard herself when she was deputy PM and yet they have done NOTHING. It does not mean the liberal government will stop this un-Australian rape of the aviation industry, but it would force their hand to come out with some sort of policy BEFORE the election so people can make an informed decision when they vote.
Very suss indeed why it is AFTER the election. A response from AIPA would no doubt be appreciated since recent phone calls can't answer this.
Why is it that the meeting which will be probably the largest gathering of pilot's for many years is AFTER the election? Quite conveniently the Monday 2 days after the Saturday election. This is a golden opportunity to expose what this government and management are complicit to in off shoring AUSTRALIAN jobs and yet the opportunity to expose this through media etc is being squandered.This is a PRE election issue, NOT a POST election. No doubt AIPA don't want to upset the labor party and affect their votes BEFORE the election. The labor government have been aware of this practice for years with Cabin Crew via the FAAA and individual complaints to Gillard herself when she was deputy PM and yet they have done NOTHING. It does not mean the liberal government will stop this un-Australian rape of the aviation industry, but it would force their hand to come out with some sort of policy BEFORE the election so people can make an informed decision when they vote.
Very suss indeed why it is AFTER the election. A response from AIPA would no doubt be appreciated since recent phone calls can't answer this.
Last edited by ratpoison; 17th Aug 2010 at 07:42.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rat, do you think it really matters whether the meeting is before or after the election? If either party thinks it's an issue that may influence votes they will issue a 'policy' statement on it. I'd suggest that unless you believe in Santa Claus then you know as well as the rest of us that 'policy' promises before an election rapidly vaporise after an election. Have you written to your local member to raise your concerns or did you just want to use this as an opportunity to do a bit of AIPA bashing? What will influence the goverment (and management) after election day are the actions that arise as a result of Monday's meeting, posting in large font on PPRuNe will not.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: some dive
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is that better FONT for ya Slim? Yes, I do believe it makes a difference BEFORE the election for reasons given in previous post. Not that the Liberals will make any difference as they are all tarred with the same corrupt brush as airline management. It was not AIPA bashing my china. It was a simple query of why it is after the election which they will not answer from an AIPA member mind you. 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Charlie, you don't have to be a unionist to stick together. Its called commonsense, and noted another post, regarding management. Which way do they go? Having been in management (Pilot) it is one thing to have a half a dozen disgruntled blokes come to see you with what they see is a problem, it is a whole new ball game to have a couple of thousand drivers, all with the s%$ts. They are going to have to deal with it, and to stand against it, will see them out on a limb, not a comfortable position to be in, in fact they will be caught between a rock and a hard place. That is when the negotiating will start, and you people will have to be ready. So be definite with what you want, and go for it. Good luck.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
I believe this goes beyond politics rat, I think you are drawing a long bow talking about after the election. We as a group should not care who is in government the key is getting common unity then enforcing that unity which if it is united will always succeed. Not rocket science mate!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rat, I have no idea why AIPA will not answer your query. Perhaps they are busy taking care of more serious and pressing issues than your demands for an answer. Perhaps at the meeting someone will explain the reason it is being held on that day, I really don't know. If you're attending and you still see it as a big issue then no doubt you can ask someone there from AIPA face to face.
What I do know is that there is often far more going on behind the scenes than is obvious to the average punter like myself. My guess? - The issue at hand requires participation by several parties, AIPA, AFAP, JPCC and the 'to and fro' that occurs when multiple parties (often with conflicting agendas/beliefs) try and tackle something can quite often lead to slow forward progress. I imagine that by the time AIPA or whoever decided a pilot meeting would be a good idea it was too late to get it happening before the election. People need adequate notice to attend so they can make plans and the organisers want ample time for word to spread to guarantee a good turn out. Do you really think some pilots complaining about offshoring of jobs will make big news in an election week ahead of issues such as $43Billion for broadband, trillion dollar economy management, asylum seeker policy etc etc? For my money it's quite smart to have it after the election where it stands a chance of being picked up by the media and given appropriate attention instead of taking the risk of it just being seen as a pre-election grab for attention by disgruntled pilot unions.
You may see it as 'very suss' but 'my china' I suspect it's just the way things have panned out and I re-affirm my belief that results will come from pilot actions, which may in turn sway government policy.
What I do know is that there is often far more going on behind the scenes than is obvious to the average punter like myself. My guess? - The issue at hand requires participation by several parties, AIPA, AFAP, JPCC and the 'to and fro' that occurs when multiple parties (often with conflicting agendas/beliefs) try and tackle something can quite often lead to slow forward progress. I imagine that by the time AIPA or whoever decided a pilot meeting would be a good idea it was too late to get it happening before the election. People need adequate notice to attend so they can make plans and the organisers want ample time for word to spread to guarantee a good turn out. Do you really think some pilots complaining about offshoring of jobs will make big news in an election week ahead of issues such as $43Billion for broadband, trillion dollar economy management, asylum seeker policy etc etc? For my money it's quite smart to have it after the election where it stands a chance of being picked up by the media and given appropriate attention instead of taking the risk of it just being seen as a pre-election grab for attention by disgruntled pilot unions.
You may see it as 'very suss' but 'my china' I suspect it's just the way things have panned out and I re-affirm my belief that results will come from pilot actions, which may in turn sway government policy.
Last edited by slim; 17th Aug 2010 at 10:49.
Mr Buchanan has denied that the airline is planning to bring in overseas pilots at lower wages and conditions and last week accused AIPA of scaremongering.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Amongst the weeds and the dust
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems to me Bruce is hiding in the details.
On one hand he's denied he plans to bring foreign pilots in to take local jobs, but on the other he's said nothing about not sending those local jobs overseas to take foreign pilots...
That's how you get around those pesky local labour laws
On one hand he's denied he plans to bring foreign pilots in to take local jobs, but on the other he's said nothing about not sending those local jobs overseas to take foreign pilots...
That's how you get around those pesky local labour laws
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Space
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Announced today, 12 upcoming VB Commands cancelled due to PB taking over VB flying
And coming in the back door at Pacific Blue are more DEC's mostly ex Ansett to join their mate's (Fact)
Mostly flying from Oz not "Based" in brizzy but some clever rostering soon fixes that...
PB is now hiring 30 new crew I hope the PB VB situation is addressed
And coming in the back door at Pacific Blue are more DEC's mostly ex Ansett to join their mate's (Fact)
Mostly flying from Oz not "Based" in brizzy but some clever rostering soon fixes that...
PB is now hiring 30 new crew I hope the PB VB situation is addressed
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: some dive
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good explanation there Slim. I see daily what affect the vermin management of that airline has on it's loyal staff. Loyalty and co-operation that are fast becoming non existent. Anger, frustration and serious concern over future career path in an AUSTRALIAN airline is becoming the daily norm and then taking that anger into the cockpit of aircraft is a recipe for disaster. And to think the ATSB and CASA sit back and do nothing regarding this serious SAFETY issue only confirms to us all what a corrupt and incestuous relationship airlines and the regulator have in this country.
After having the fight punched out of them for so long, people begin to even see the spectators as their enemy. As has been said many times here, it is now the time to stand up and take these bastards on. Enough is enough.
After having the fight punched out of them for so long, people begin to even see the spectators as their enemy. As has been said many times here, it is now the time to stand up and take these bastards on. Enough is enough.
Last edited by ratpoison; 18th Aug 2010 at 02:05.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Club 151
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23rd AIPA meeting
Quote:
Mr Buchanan has denied that the airline is planning to bring in overseas pilots at lower wages and conditions and last week accused AIPA of scaremongering.
So, is he, or isn't he?
Mr Buchanan has denied that the airline is planning to bring in overseas pilots at lower wages and conditions and last week accused AIPA of scaremongering.
So, is he, or isn't he?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However even if the CEO's are seen to 'relent' on this major issue of offshoring, there will inevitably be repeated attacks on various elements of your livelihoods over the coming years. Less $ in your pockets means more in theirs.
The only way to counter such sustained attacks is to once and for all combine to create a unified pilot body. Whilst conceivably there would be different interest groups within that body (GA, regionals, short-haul, J* subcommittees etc) it is imperative that Professional Pilots operate under ONE umbrella group. Intelligent, tactically coherent and politically savvy skills are needed for success and this can only be achieved together.
The only way to counter such sustained attacks is to once and for all combine to create a unified pilot body. Whilst conceivably there would be different interest groups within that body (GA, regionals, short-haul, J* subcommittees etc) it is imperative that Professional Pilots operate under ONE umbrella group. Intelligent, tactically coherent and politically savvy skills are needed for success and this can only be achieved together.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I realise we need to something to stop the rot and the upcoming meeting is a good start, however I just wonder what can be.
Just because we have a meeting with a great turn out, isn't all of a sudden going to change this management point of view.
We also know what happens with industrial action, so please someone advise how can we turn it around.
Just because we have a meeting with a great turn out, isn't all of a sudden going to change this management point of view.
We also know what happens with industrial action, so please someone advise how can we turn it around.