Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23
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Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23
What:
An all Australian Pilot meeting to develop a response to the career threatening FSO of Jetstar Airways (Qantas Group member).
When:
1pm on Monday, 23 August 2010.
Where:
St George Rowing Club, 1 Levey Street, Wolli Creek NSW.
Parking is available.
Venue is a 5 minute drive or 20 minute walk from Sydney Airport.
CLICK HERE to view a map.
An all Australian Pilot meeting to develop a response to the career threatening FSO of Jetstar Airways (Qantas Group member).
When:
1pm on Monday, 23 August 2010.
Where:
St George Rowing Club, 1 Levey Street, Wolli Creek NSW.
Parking is available.
Venue is a 5 minute drive or 20 minute walk from Sydney Airport.
CLICK HERE to view a map.
To assist us in hiring the correct room size, please RSVP by emailing [email protected] or call 02 8307 7777 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 02 8307 7777 end_of_the_skype_highlighting.
More information to follow.
All Australian Pilots that are not flying at this time, regardless of AIPA, AFAP or non-union membership are encouraged to attend.
This will affect ALL Australian Pilots at some time during their career - so we need your support
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And good luck to you with your work here.
With the looming global shortage of experienced pilots now is certainly the time to become one cohesive and strategically intelligent group.
However I sadly suspect that such efforts will inevitably become bogged down with "you did this to me back then so I'm going to ignore your plight now and get what I can for me, now" mentality that has so plagued our industry for the past 20 or so years.
Yes the AFAP and AIPA had issues way back when they split. Yes some mucked it up for everybody. Yes DJ and J* pilots undercut Qantas salaries (which should have been the lowest datum at the time). Yes Qantas pilots were arrogant in assuming they were better than everybody else and impervious to attack. But for crying out loud isn't it time to get over all of this now and just move on?
Instead of sniping and bleating like spoilt little schoolyard brats is it inconceivable that we for once actually exhibit the intelligence we so pride ourselves on and use this constructively for our own collective benefit?
If ever there was a time to act it is now but having watched PPRune babies for what 12-13 years now, I'm not holding my breath.
In any case, good luck with the meeting.
With the looming global shortage of experienced pilots now is certainly the time to become one cohesive and strategically intelligent group.
However I sadly suspect that such efforts will inevitably become bogged down with "you did this to me back then so I'm going to ignore your plight now and get what I can for me, now" mentality that has so plagued our industry for the past 20 or so years.
Yes the AFAP and AIPA had issues way back when they split. Yes some mucked it up for everybody. Yes DJ and J* pilots undercut Qantas salaries (which should have been the lowest datum at the time). Yes Qantas pilots were arrogant in assuming they were better than everybody else and impervious to attack. But for crying out loud isn't it time to get over all of this now and just move on?
Instead of sniping and bleating like spoilt little schoolyard brats is it inconceivable that we for once actually exhibit the intelligence we so pride ourselves on and use this constructively for our own collective benefit?
If ever there was a time to act it is now but having watched PPRune babies for what 12-13 years now, I'm not holding my breath.
In any case, good luck with the meeting.
Whispering "T" Jet
To assist us in hiring the correct room size,..................
Should have convened on the 24th August.
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A nice idea in principle but the day a QF Captain turns up to support/help a jetstar pilot will be the day hell freezes over I think. (but i hope i'm wrong)
Good luck though.
Good luck though.
A nice idea in principle but the day a QF Captain turns up to support/help a jetstar pilot will be the day hell freezes over I think.
Would a QF FO show up to support his colleagues from other airlines and his own career progression? Damn straight!!! And if this effects you, then you should show up as well!
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People, its time to move on from QF vs J* and whatever other injustice you can come up with.
We are being attacked on multiple fronts and our lack of unity is the reason this has continued to happen over and over again. There has been a steady decline that has continued and does not look like its going to slow. The Jetstar/PB/Jetconnect saga is just another in a long list.
Our industry is at best another 5 to 10 years away from becoming totally unbareable.
We've had:
ASIC police
High Viz police
Jump Seat police
DOTARS/CASA ("pay for this pay for that" - "do this do that")
Security police
Air No Services and all costs
Companies opening other companies to bypass EBA conditions
Crap/Ancient navaids/facilities everywhere
Drug and Alcohol carry on
Have a look at whats next: Nekkid, irradiated, and very annoyed – Plane Talking
This is utter bull**** and it needs to be stopped.
If I'm in Sydney on that day I will attend.
We are being attacked on multiple fronts and our lack of unity is the reason this has continued to happen over and over again. There has been a steady decline that has continued and does not look like its going to slow. The Jetstar/PB/Jetconnect saga is just another in a long list.
Our industry is at best another 5 to 10 years away from becoming totally unbareable.
We've had:
ASIC police
High Viz police
Jump Seat police
DOTARS/CASA ("pay for this pay for that" - "do this do that")
Security police
Air No Services and all costs
Companies opening other companies to bypass EBA conditions
Crap/Ancient navaids/facilities everywhere
Drug and Alcohol carry on
Have a look at whats next: Nekkid, irradiated, and very annoyed – Plane Talking
This is utter bull**** and it needs to be stopped.
If I'm in Sydney on that day I will attend.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 11th Aug 2010 at 08:58.
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As a 89er, can I beg, plead, cajole, to you all TO GET TOGETHER regardless with whom you fly, and STICK TOGETHER, united you are unbeatable, divided,up to sh%t. If 89 does nothing else, then us old blokes would like to see you young blokes, stick it up em.There is NO EXCUSE for non Australian pilots to fly our skies, we blokes had to wear it, and it was soul destroying, (and still is) let em in, and the flood gates will open, there are enough young Australians coming up to fill the ranks, as there has always been, it is their right to fill my shoes, your shoes, without the threat of OS pilots taking up the slack.
Nunc est bibendum
A nice idea in principle but the day a QF Captain turns up to support/help a jetstar pilot will be the day hell freezes over I think. (but i hope i'm wrong)
In any event, You're wrong. This QF captain will be there.
STOP!!!!! and think....
Keg said :
There has been a lot of slandering backwards and forwards on this site for years now. 89, DJ, QF, PB, JQ.....
STOP and think about those pilots you know in other outfits than your own. Do those people that you personally know really fit with the stereotype that is fed on sites like this one? In most cases the answer is NO!
This issue is of BIBLICAL proportions to the future of OUR industry. Particularly for any SO or FO out there who ever wants a command on decent conditions.
If we don't stand together now, we slide one rung further down the ladder... HOW FAR DO WE LET THIS GO?
So if you, or your colleagues, can make the united meeting, PLEASE show your support and turn up for the future that we all worked hard to achieve.
or do you just run with the stereotype that you've been fed from PPRUNE
STOP and think about those pilots you know in other outfits than your own. Do those people that you personally know really fit with the stereotype that is fed on sites like this one? In most cases the answer is NO!
This issue is of BIBLICAL proportions to the future of OUR industry. Particularly for any SO or FO out there who ever wants a command on decent conditions.
If we don't stand together now, we slide one rung further down the ladder... HOW FAR DO WE LET THIS GO?
So if you, or your colleagues, can make the united meeting, PLEASE show your support and turn up for the future that we all worked hard to achieve.
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Please step up people.
If your a GA driver, REX , QF link, RFDS, QF, JQ, VA, VB, any aspiring pilot. You will be welcome, so please turn up it will make a big difference.
If your a GA driver, REX , QF link, RFDS, QF, JQ, VA, VB, any aspiring pilot. You will be welcome, so please turn up it will make a big difference.
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Bring paper bag with eye holes cut out..unmarked van with tinted windows over the road will carry Qantas HR staff practicing zoom lens photography
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I have (18 months ago) completed a contract in India as TRE/TRI on the B777 where pilots with 175 hrs TT are in the right hand seat of a B777, B744, A320, B73NG.... (Yes: one hundred and seventy five hours total time: going from C152 directly to these aircraft. First twin is/was these aircraft). And, many with 1500 hrs TT, fraudulent hours and fraudulent exam results to go directly into the LHS of these same aircraft. This is WRONG on all accounts through no fault of their own but due the incomprehensible corruption in training and standards - basically criminally negligent in my opinion.
As a result of this unsurmountable corruption and despicable standards I resigned and now am back in the States....
My point? In Oz you need upwards of 2000 hrs TT, 500 hrs (minimum) twin PIC, turboprop time, etc, etc, etc for the right to hopefully interview for an SO position with QF, or FO with DJ, JQ, etc... More realistically around 3-4000 hrs TT.
So, to open your doors to foreign pilots is just plain DUMB.
Recruit the pilots with 500-1000 hrs TT flying in GA. Train them PROPERLY and THOROUGHLY and there is no reason why any shortage cannot be met. Then if need be recruit with fewer hours experience, and so on. If the GA scene needs the pilots then and only out of desperation look outside. Again, LAST resort. There are countless spoilt brats in countries like India screaming from the rafters with a fresh CPL, rallying the government that they shouldn't have to fly "props" as such jet jobs are their birth right and to get rid of the experienced expat pilots. Get those spoilt brats to Oz for the GA scene and I trust they'll learn humility and even become "pilots" unlike the unsafe fools they are now.
I have flown with a few expat Aussies. They are head and shoulders above the standards of many other nations, due to that GA experience.
So, Oz aviation needs pull its head out of its ar$e, realise that while these GA hours are golden, they can be replaced with effective and non-compromising training. Hang on, this may mean bean-counters investing in their pilots and staff. Therein lies the problem.
What more do these money hungry ba$tards need? Pilots are already paying for the endorsement, being bonded, etc!? I know, foreign pilots undercutting the T&C's...... Look at what CX have done with their SO recruitment but for one example!!
Stick together. See what you already have, protect it and I pray you do not let this happen.
Good luck.
As a result of this unsurmountable corruption and despicable standards I resigned and now am back in the States....
My point? In Oz you need upwards of 2000 hrs TT, 500 hrs (minimum) twin PIC, turboprop time, etc, etc, etc for the right to hopefully interview for an SO position with QF, or FO with DJ, JQ, etc... More realistically around 3-4000 hrs TT.
So, to open your doors to foreign pilots is just plain DUMB.
Recruit the pilots with 500-1000 hrs TT flying in GA. Train them PROPERLY and THOROUGHLY and there is no reason why any shortage cannot be met. Then if need be recruit with fewer hours experience, and so on. If the GA scene needs the pilots then and only out of desperation look outside. Again, LAST resort. There are countless spoilt brats in countries like India screaming from the rafters with a fresh CPL, rallying the government that they shouldn't have to fly "props" as such jet jobs are their birth right and to get rid of the experienced expat pilots. Get those spoilt brats to Oz for the GA scene and I trust they'll learn humility and even become "pilots" unlike the unsafe fools they are now.
I have flown with a few expat Aussies. They are head and shoulders above the standards of many other nations, due to that GA experience.
So, Oz aviation needs pull its head out of its ar$e, realise that while these GA hours are golden, they can be replaced with effective and non-compromising training. Hang on, this may mean bean-counters investing in their pilots and staff. Therein lies the problem.
What more do these money hungry ba$tards need? Pilots are already paying for the endorsement, being bonded, etc!? I know, foreign pilots undercutting the T&C's...... Look at what CX have done with their SO recruitment but for one example!!
Stick together. See what you already have, protect it and I pray you do not let this happen.
Good luck.
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TopTup you have an insight into what the future might hold if this rot isn't stopped. I suggest you contact this man:
By email: [email protected]
Recently he stood up and called a spade a spade when it came to Anthony Albanese's great ideas regarding jump seat usage.
Another option is:
Contact Four Corners
Its time for AIPA AFAP VIPA TWU and who ever else to say enough's enough.
By email: [email protected]
Recently he stood up and called a spade a spade when it came to Anthony Albanese's great ideas regarding jump seat usage.
Another option is:
Contact Four Corners
Its time for AIPA AFAP VIPA TWU and who ever else to say enough's enough.
Is this something that a lowly GA driver/instructor should attend?
Im a Grade 1 who trains foriegn airline cadets. While they graduate with CPL/IR, you wouldnt call them aviators in any sense. The thought of masses of low time foreigners of dubious standard flying domestic in Oz horrifies me.
Besides that, if airlines can hire foriegn nationals, on half the pay. What jobs will there be left for Aussies comming up through the ranks.
Aussies for Aussie Jobs.
Im a Grade 1 who trains foriegn airline cadets. While they graduate with CPL/IR, you wouldnt call them aviators in any sense. The thought of masses of low time foreigners of dubious standard flying domestic in Oz horrifies me.
Besides that, if airlines can hire foriegn nationals, on half the pay. What jobs will there be left for Aussies comming up through the ranks.
Aussies for Aussie Jobs.