Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23
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From the ATO website:
Exempt foreign employment income - Changes to qualifying conditions effective from 1 July 2009
In the 2009-10 Federal Budget, the government announced changes to the exemption rules for foreign employment income derived by Australian residents who are engaged in foreign service for a continuous period of 91 days or more. The exemption is provided under section 23AG of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936.
Tax Laws Amendment (2009 Budget Measures No. 1) Act 2009, which received royal assent on 29 June 2009, amended section 23AG to limit the exemption for foreign employment income to certain types of employment.
From 1 July 2009, an exemption from income tax on foreign employment income will only be available if your foreign service is directly attributable to any of the following:
the delivery of Australian official development assistance by your employer
the activities of your employer in operating a public fund declared by the Treasurer to be a developing country relief fund; or a public fund established and maintained to provide monetary relief to people in a developing foreign country that has experienced a disaster
the activities of your employer as a prescribed institution that is exempt from Australian income tax
deployment outside Australia by an Australian government (or an authority thereof) as a member of a disciplined force
an activity of a kind specified in the regulations.
If the foreign service is not directly attributable to the activities mentioned above, you do not qualify for the exemption.
If you do not qualify for the exemption, the foreign employment income will need to be included in your tax return as assessable income and you may be entitled to a foreign income tax offset for amounts of foreign tax paid.
For more information
See: The Treasurer’s 2009 media release No.066
Changes to the taxing of foreign income
Jetstar's head of corporate relations, Simon Westaway, refused to comment on the pilots' plans, saying that the airline ''does not respond to speculative commentary''.
He said that more than 70 Jetstar pilots had expressed an interest in working on the new Singapore to Melbourne route where pilots would be ''well remunerated'' on''Singapore terms'' and ''enjoy the benefits of a Singapore basing, including their low tax environment''. He declined to comment on how much they would be paid.
Is Simon telling porkies???
Singaporean tax rate of 15%, me thinks not!
Ceveat Emptor !
Exempt foreign employment income - Changes to qualifying conditions effective from 1 July 2009
In the 2009-10 Federal Budget, the government announced changes to the exemption rules for foreign employment income derived by Australian residents who are engaged in foreign service for a continuous period of 91 days or more. The exemption is provided under section 23AG of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936.
Tax Laws Amendment (2009 Budget Measures No. 1) Act 2009, which received royal assent on 29 June 2009, amended section 23AG to limit the exemption for foreign employment income to certain types of employment.
From 1 July 2009, an exemption from income tax on foreign employment income will only be available if your foreign service is directly attributable to any of the following:
If the foreign service is not directly attributable to the activities mentioned above, you do not qualify for the exemption.
If you do not qualify for the exemption, the foreign employment income will need to be included in your tax return as assessable income and you may be entitled to a foreign income tax offset for amounts of foreign tax paid.
For more information
See: The Treasurer’s 2009 media release No.066
Changes to the taxing of foreign income
Jetstar's head of corporate relations, Simon Westaway, refused to comment on the pilots' plans, saying that the airline ''does not respond to speculative commentary''.
He said that more than 70 Jetstar pilots had expressed an interest in working on the new Singapore to Melbourne route where pilots would be ''well remunerated'' on''Singapore terms'' and ''enjoy the benefits of a Singapore basing, including their low tax environment''. He declined to comment on how much they would be paid.
Is Simon telling porkies???
Singaporean tax rate of 15%, me thinks not!
Ceveat Emptor !
blow.n.gasket
Don’t get me wrong because I am very much on the side of you guys when it comes to what J* etc are doing to you but let me try and clear up one thing regarding tax issues in Australia. First the answer to whether you pay tax in Australia lies in the first sentence of the ATO explanation of the changes. That being:
You can be a citizen of Australia but at the same time be a non-resident for tax purposes. If you meet the requirements for non-residency by the ATO you will be classed as a non-resident for tax purposes. All the details can be found here:
Determination of residency status – leaving Australia
What is up in the air is how the ATO will treat Australians flying Australian registered aircraft but based in Singapore. If memory serves me correctly QF were going to do this a few years ago with SO's and it opened a mine field.
Don’t get me wrong because I am very much on the side of you guys when it comes to what J* etc are doing to you but let me try and clear up one thing regarding tax issues in Australia. First the answer to whether you pay tax in Australia lies in the first sentence of the ATO explanation of the changes. That being:
In the 2009-10 Federal Budget, the government announced changes to the exemption rules for foreign employment income derived by Australian residents who are engaged in foreign service for a continuous period of 91 days or more.
Determination of residency status – leaving Australia
What is up in the air is how the ATO will treat Australians flying Australian registered aircraft but based in Singapore. If memory serves me correctly QF were going to do this a few years ago with SO's and it opened a mine field.
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Give and take.
Pilots are happy to give as much as they possibly can. However, when the take gets out of control "annoying industrial tactics" are used as an absolute last ditch resort. In fact its the first time I've ever heard anyone in the Jetstar ranks doing anything of the sort. I suggest that they are a particularly tolerant and professional bunch. The fact that it has come to this indicates to me that they really have been pushed beyond their limit. In reading their EBA I have to say that limit is pretty far enough already.
Goodwill in the Australian workforce has become so common that its now the norm. People work countless free hours and do the extra bit to get the company over the line every week of every year. I'm one of these people. I strive everyday to achieve the highest standard for customers and company always. I pride myself on this as do my colleagues.
What we ask for in return is a modicum of respect and to at least maintain a standard of living. We're not asking for lavish lifestyles. We all understand globalisation and cost cutting within reason. We all support efficient operations. What we don't and won't support is:
1. Corner cutting on safety related issues
2. Industrial trickery and belligerence
3. Constant word games within our agreed EBA
4. Going only backwards always
I've seen first hand what an annoyed pilot group can do to the bottom line. It is really shocking. You save $1 by doing this he flushes $20,000 by doing that. Multiply that over 300 flights a day and all the penny pinching in the world will not save you.
Employers that strike the balance in the end will be the ones announcing the profits. They will attract and retain experienced staff and they will have happy satisfied customers that will return again and again. On this basis the brand is built into a reliable Australian staple.
At the end of the day if it gets through, and I suspect it will, Emirates will find the solution to their recruitment problem. You think you got OTP problems now. Gee whiz just wait till 20-30 pilots leave per month.
Every time a 10,000 hr guy/gal withdraws their services from the experience pool the company gets one step closer to that line which if crossed will close up the whole turn out.
Wake up Australia.
Goodwill in the Australian workforce has become so common that its now the norm. People work countless free hours and do the extra bit to get the company over the line every week of every year. I'm one of these people. I strive everyday to achieve the highest standard for customers and company always. I pride myself on this as do my colleagues.
What we ask for in return is a modicum of respect and to at least maintain a standard of living. We're not asking for lavish lifestyles. We all understand globalisation and cost cutting within reason. We all support efficient operations. What we don't and won't support is:
1. Corner cutting on safety related issues
2. Industrial trickery and belligerence
3. Constant word games within our agreed EBA
4. Going only backwards always
I've seen first hand what an annoyed pilot group can do to the bottom line. It is really shocking. You save $1 by doing this he flushes $20,000 by doing that. Multiply that over 300 flights a day and all the penny pinching in the world will not save you.
Employers that strike the balance in the end will be the ones announcing the profits. They will attract and retain experienced staff and they will have happy satisfied customers that will return again and again. On this basis the brand is built into a reliable Australian staple.
At the end of the day if it gets through, and I suspect it will, Emirates will find the solution to their recruitment problem. You think you got OTP problems now. Gee whiz just wait till 20-30 pilots leave per month.
Every time a 10,000 hr guy/gal withdraws their services from the experience pool the company gets one step closer to that line which if crossed will close up the whole turn out.
Wake up Australia.
Nunc est bibendum
From 404 Titan's link.
If you're response is that you won't return to Australia more than four times a year it says you're not an Australian resident for tax purposes.
You are an Australian resident for taxation purposes after you depart Australia.
You provided the following information
Are you under 16 years of age? No
Are you or your spouse an eligible employee in the CSS or a member of the PSS? No
Are/were you an Australian resident for tax purposes immediately before leaving Australia? Yes
Are you a temporary resident leaving Australia to live in another country (or countries)? No
Are you an Australian resident who is emigrating to live permanently in another country? No
Where were you born? Australia
What do you consider to be your home country? Australia
Will you spend the majority of your time based in any one place while overseas? Yes
How long will you be based in that place while outside Australia? 2 to 5 years
What accommodation will you occupy most of the time that you are in this place? Rented dwelling house, flat, etc
Are you a dependent child? No
Are you travelling with or joining family members (e.g. spouse, dependent children) overseas? All family members
Do you plan to return to Australia more than four times every year? Yes
What are your plans for your Australian home? Rent out pending my return
How often do you expect to visit Australia while you are based overseas? At least every 3 months
You provided the following information
Are you under 16 years of age? No
Are you or your spouse an eligible employee in the CSS or a member of the PSS? No
Are/were you an Australian resident for tax purposes immediately before leaving Australia? Yes
Are you a temporary resident leaving Australia to live in another country (or countries)? No
Are you an Australian resident who is emigrating to live permanently in another country? No
Where were you born? Australia
What do you consider to be your home country? Australia
Will you spend the majority of your time based in any one place while overseas? Yes
How long will you be based in that place while outside Australia? 2 to 5 years
What accommodation will you occupy most of the time that you are in this place? Rented dwelling house, flat, etc
Are you a dependent child? No
Are you travelling with or joining family members (e.g. spouse, dependent children) overseas? All family members
Do you plan to return to Australia more than four times every year? Yes
What are your plans for your Australian home? Rent out pending my return
How often do you expect to visit Australia while you are based overseas? At least every 3 months
Keg
This probably highlights the difference in working for an Australian company abroad and a foreign company abroad.
If the contract is an indefinite one abroad then this ATO residency tool can’t answer the question to residency status. Each case would be different but if your family went with you and you had no Australian income except rental property etc then you would most likely be considered a non-resident for tax purposes. Likewise if the intention of the person is to leave Australia permanently then they are non-residents for tax purposes, though, I will concede this is easier to substantiate if you are working for a foreign company than an Australian company.
As I don't know the details of the contract that is being offered it is hard to say how the ATO would treat someone accepting it.
This probably highlights the difference in working for an Australian company abroad and a foreign company abroad.
If the contract is an indefinite one abroad then this ATO residency tool can’t answer the question to residency status. Each case would be different but if your family went with you and you had no Australian income except rental property etc then you would most likely be considered a non-resident for tax purposes. Likewise if the intention of the person is to leave Australia permanently then they are non-residents for tax purposes, though, I will concede this is easier to substantiate if you are working for a foreign company than an Australian company.
As I don't know the details of the contract that is being offered it is hard to say how the ATO would treat someone accepting it.
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they'll be flying from SIN to MEL. So unless CASA is prepared to allow F and D limits of 24 hrs then they will be overnighting so visiting every week, therefore not a foreign resident and will have to pay oz tax.
dodgybrothers
Time in Australia isn’t necessarily the only determinant as to ones residency status for tax purposes. Generally the Commissioner of Taxation in determining where a person resides, using the normal meaning of the word, considers more than six months as residing.
Time in Australia isn’t necessarily the only determinant as to ones residency status for tax purposes. Generally the Commissioner of Taxation in determining where a person resides, using the normal meaning of the word, considers more than six months as residing.
Dodgybrothers with all due respect you are not correct, 'Titan' and 'Keg' have it basically correct although another thing to consider is Private Health Insurance. You cannot remain with private cover in Aus. You also have to surrender your 'Medi-Card' and cannot contribute to an Aussie Super Scheme. If your principle address is off-shore, together with your employment and your country of residence has a tax agreement with Australia you don't pay Aussie tax on those earnings. You do, obviously pay aussie tax on any Aussie income, Shares, Bank interest etc. They are constantly changing the rules and the easiest thing is to contact them for a private ruling or go through a tax agent. I can come home 90 days a year, some have more, God knows why its different. You also cannot hold an ASIC, but can wander about the tarmac on your overseas ID as if you own the place. The only problem I can see is if they consider Jet Star an Australian company, again a private ruling will answer that one.
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You also have to surrender your 'Medi-Card'
There are four basic tests that you must not satisfy to be considered a non resident.
- Resides test
- Domicile test
- 183 Day test
- Superanuation test
An example from the ATO;
Bronwyn – an extended job overseas
Facts
Bronwyn, a resident of Australia, has received a job offer to work overseas for three years, with the option to extend for another three years.
Bronwyn, her husband and three children decide to make the move.
They retain their property in Australia, as they intend to return one day.
The house will be rented out during their absence.
Bronwyn is uncertain whether she will extend the option to stay after three years, and will decide later, depending on how the family like the life there.
While overseas, they will rent a house with an accommodation allowance provided under her contract.
Outcome: why is Bronwyn considered a non-resident?
The following table outlines the reasons why the four residency tests were not satisfied.
Test
This test is not satisfied because...
Residency - the resides test
the length of Bronwyn’s physical absence from Australia and the surrounding circumstances (such as establishing a home overseas with her family and renting out her family home in Australia) are not consistent with residing in Australia, even though she has retained the family home in Australia.
Residency - the domicile test
her permanent place of abode is outside Australia due to:
the length of time she has committed to spending overseas
establishment of a home overseas, and
her family accompanying her.
the fact that she will not be selling the home in Australia, although relevant, is not persuasive enough to overcome the finding on the basis of the other factors.
it is arguable that she has abandoned her home in Australia for the duration of her stay, by renting it out.
Residency - the 183 day test
this does not apply from the date of her departure for overseas.
Residency - the superannuation test
this does not apply.
Find a good accountant. You can be a non resident for tax purposes without being afraid of the ATO boogyman.
psycho joe
Surrender may not be the most appropriate word but as a non-resident for tax purposes you aren’t entitled to have or use a Medicare card. If you aren’t entitled to Medicare you aren’t entitled to private medical insurance in Australia. Being an Australian citizen on its own doesn't entitle you to be registered to use Medicare.
As an Australian citizen I never had to surrender my Medicare card.
During leave several years ago I made a Medicare claim. The girl behind the desk typed away and suddenly said, "Oh you're listed as a non resident and I am required to keep this card". She subsequently cut it in two and called out, "Next!" Maybe I should come home via Ashmore Reef next time.
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A range of go-slow or work-to-rule measures are being considered by the pilots, including:
Unless BB is best mates with the Australian PM who is willing to give jetstar over $100 million to help the airline out during any industrial action, get the military to fly for jetstar when it's pilots won't, amend immigration laws so that scabs can come work for nothing and lastly, force CASA to amend their minimum requirements, then I don't see how history is going to repeat itself.
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Latest Headline
Telstra BigPond News and Weather
Jetstar braces for strike action
Monday, August 23, 2010 » 09:11am
Jetstar pilots will meet today to plan industrial action over wage and working conditions.
More than 100 pilots will consider a range of possible protests, that could disrupt services.
They're angry at being encouraged to transfer to the airline's new Singapore-Melbourne route, where they won't be employed under Australian laws.
Instead they'll be employed under Singapore laws, despite flying Australian-registered planes into Australia.
Telstra BigPond News and Weather
Jetstar braces for strike action
Monday, August 23, 2010 » 09:11am
Jetstar pilots will meet today to plan industrial action over wage and working conditions.
More than 100 pilots will consider a range of possible protests, that could disrupt services.
They're angry at being encouraged to transfer to the airline's new Singapore-Melbourne route, where they won't be employed under Australian laws.
Instead they'll be employed under Singapore laws, despite flying Australian-registered planes into Australia.
To all those atending today, please accept my apologies - a combination of geography and rostering prevents me from being there...
Slight thread drift re: taxation (although it is a good discussion), I'd like to bring things back to the central theme.
Any suggestion that the company is considering this in the interests of "creating opportunities for Australian pilots" or whatever, is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH - to state the obvious. For two reasons:
1) It provides no tangible opportunities (other than to be further exploited) to Australian pilots
2) Basically, they are philosophically opposed to doing ANYTHING in the interest of pilots!
I honestly thought I would never see a display of unity even close to what we are seeing here, in my working life!! Well done to all, where bitter feelings from the past have been overlooked for the benefit of the future. This doesn't happen easily, and I'd like to acknowledge it...
Good luck (but luck's got nothing to do with it, as they say! Kind of like a sim check
) Preparation, and focus is the key... 
CR.
Slight thread drift re: taxation (although it is a good discussion), I'd like to bring things back to the central theme.
Any suggestion that the company is considering this in the interests of "creating opportunities for Australian pilots" or whatever, is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH - to state the obvious. For two reasons:
1) It provides no tangible opportunities (other than to be further exploited) to Australian pilots
2) Basically, they are philosophically opposed to doing ANYTHING in the interest of pilots!
I honestly thought I would never see a display of unity even close to what we are seeing here, in my working life!! Well done to all, where bitter feelings from the past have been overlooked for the benefit of the future. This doesn't happen easily, and I'd like to acknowledge it...
Good luck (but luck's got nothing to do with it, as they say! Kind of like a sim check
) Preparation, and focus is the key... CR.
I was hoping to make but due to circumstances out of my control cannot make it 
My appologies. It is about to start and I wish I could be there to show my support.
Pitty no one could have web cast it, but I suppose that would allow people to see the meeting that otherwise would not be welcome!
Good luck guys. Sidelined but supportive!
My appologies. It is about to start and I wish I could be there to show my support.Pitty no one could have web cast it, but I suppose that would allow people to see the meeting that otherwise would not be welcome!
Good luck guys. Sidelined but supportive!
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Regionally competitive in VH Guise........
Is there a future for Aussie Pilots??
Is there a future for Aussie Cabin Crew??
Is there a future for Aussie Engineers??
Is there a future for Aussie Office Staff??
What will your quality of life be in 3, 5, 10 years time??
Will you even have an aussie aviation job??
Is there a future for Aussie Pilots??
Is there a future for Aussie Cabin Crew??
Is there a future for Aussie Engineers??
Is there a future for Aussie Office Staff??
What will your quality of life be in 3, 5, 10 years time??
Will you even have an aussie aviation job??
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Apologies also to everyone. Would loved to have attended, in my old job I could have, but unfortunately not today. Geographically challenged to say the least.
I wish you ALL the very best and am thinking of you now. Keep emotions in check and stick together.
regards to all
Norma
I wish you ALL the very best and am thinking of you now. Keep emotions in check and stick together.
regards to all
Norma