V Australia commenced BNE-LAX today
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V-SFO......good post..I too would have joined VA last year had it not been for it being "uneconomical" at the time for me to do so.
I can only hope that it goes well, it would be nice to fly long haul out of my home country one day. Do good work.
I can only hope that it goes well, it would be nice to fly long haul out of my home country one day. Do good work.
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Nice one V-SFO. I enjoy it as well. The bosses are doing their best, the guys on the crew are good fun, the aeroplane is great, crew rest excellent and too many chicken wings is never enough.
Saw the V Australia crew waiting for the bus in LAX recently and was bitterly disappointed with the eye candy. Half of the cabin crew were blokes and the girls weren't all that flash. Branson wouldn't be happy!
Also couldn't help but wonder what the V Aus skipper thinks seeing a QF captain who just did the same flight earning almost double...or the F/O earning less then QF S/Os...that pay scale is a f*cking joke
Also couldn't help but wonder what the V Aus skipper thinks seeing a QF captain who just did the same flight earning almost double...or the F/O earning less then QF S/Os...that pay scale is a f*cking joke
off those people are some ones son or daughter you
30 years flying..........SIX years Medium to Long haul with SIX Airlines in THAT time?????????? or do you mean SIX Airlines in 30 years? Whichever way you mean it's still an aweful lot mate.
Having said all that I wish all at VOZ the best, great Aircraft etc but don't crap on about how EASY it is.....................cock.
Having said all that I wish all at VOZ the best, great Aircraft etc but don't crap on about how EASY it is.....................cock.
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Very well said V-SFO.
I can only heartily endorse V-SFO's comments, however I fear that his or her eloquence is wasted upon some of the clowns that post on this forum.
I have only been with the company for five months and I'm very happy and I am sure that we will thrive.
As a friend of mine in Dragon said the fact that you work with good people in a positive environment is worth tens of thousands of dollars, I also feel that living in ones home town or favoured little piece of Australasia, with generous staff travel concessions to get to and from is worth tens of thousands of dollars as well. There more to life than making moolah.
As for Capt's sleeping habits, there is plenty of depth at V, don't worry about that.
As for utility and ease, much easier swanning off to LA every ten days or so than min rest overnights and triple Canberras.
I look forward to many happy years enjoying one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation.
web
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Hey TL....
Let me get this straight......getting paid a lot more is a bad thing????? So unless a company is paying low cost wages then it is a joke is it?
Interesting concept.....
Let me get this straight......getting paid a lot more is a bad thing????? So unless a company is paying low cost wages then it is a joke is it?
Interesting concept.....
ernestkgann,
QF SO wages have been discussed a number of times on pprune so I don't really need to spell it out for you, but from what I've seen of the V Aus contract it's more than their Senior F/Os (or whatever they're called).
inandout,
Chill out, was just passing comment that despite public perception, not all Virgin girls are straight off the catwalk. After seen all their promo videos with Branson and girls in bikinis etc, I was a little disappointed that's all.
Tempo,
Maybe you need to re-read my post. I am saying the V Aus pay is a joke...
QF SO wages have been discussed a number of times on pprune so I don't really need to spell it out for you, but from what I've seen of the V Aus contract it's more than their Senior F/Os (or whatever they're called).
inandout,
Chill out, was just passing comment that despite public perception, not all Virgin girls are straight off the catwalk. After seen all their promo videos with Branson and girls in bikinis etc, I was a little disappointed that's all.
Tempo,
Maybe you need to re-read my post. I am saying the V Aus pay is a joke...
There more to life than making moolah.
However the tradeoff is lifestyle, something that your EBA doesn't allow for. If you got better lifestyle conditions I think that would be a good deal 9 days a month off doing long haul isn't really what I'd consider sustainable if you want to live beyond about 45
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Ernie,
Looks like TL is a QF SO, as you well know a superior level of aviation expertise. That's like a cruise FO isn't it? I don't think I'd bother rising to his bait.
Looks like TL is a QF SO, as you well know a superior level of aviation expertise. That's like a cruise FO isn't it? I don't think I'd bother rising to his bait.
Neville.
I don't know how to put it any less offensively, but you really are a dill.
9 days off is the contracted agreement. However 3 1/2 trips a month accrues max hours. So, regardless of how many days off per month are contracted, you will be spending a lot more time at home than the allotted 9. Lets say the average LA trip is 5 days (conservative), that is 17 1/2 days working days per month, call it 18. This is the max per annum. Add on your 9 days off and there are 3-4 extra days when you are totally unavailable. Put it another way, working max hours you will have at least 13 days off per month. Not too bad I would suggest, far better than community average.
And to the cretin who suggested the VA Capt waiting for transport at LAX, would be envious of the QF guy who walks past, cos he earns a greater remuneration. Who gives a ****. There is more to life than dollars. I much prefer to work in a non toxic environment. One in which I am sure that the meals are safe from tampering and that I can go out and socialse with the entire crew whilst away on a layover. They are actually reasonable human beings. Pity the sky gods don't understand this, their life would be much more full if they would step down a peg or two.
Maui
I don't know how to put it any less offensively, but you really are a dill.
9 days off is the contracted agreement. However 3 1/2 trips a month accrues max hours. So, regardless of how many days off per month are contracted, you will be spending a lot more time at home than the allotted 9. Lets say the average LA trip is 5 days (conservative), that is 17 1/2 days working days per month, call it 18. This is the max per annum. Add on your 9 days off and there are 3-4 extra days when you are totally unavailable. Put it another way, working max hours you will have at least 13 days off per month. Not too bad I would suggest, far better than community average.
And to the cretin who suggested the VA Capt waiting for transport at LAX, would be envious of the QF guy who walks past, cos he earns a greater remuneration. Who gives a ****. There is more to life than dollars. I much prefer to work in a non toxic environment. One in which I am sure that the meals are safe from tampering and that I can go out and socialse with the entire crew whilst away on a layover. They are actually reasonable human beings. Pity the sky gods don't understand this, their life would be much more full if they would step down a peg or two.
Maui
Last edited by maui; 21st Apr 2009 at 09:34.
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And to the cretin who suggested the VA Capt waiting for transport at LAX, would be envious of the QF guy who walks past, cos he earns a grater remuneration. Who gives a ****. There is more to life than dollars. I much prefer to work in a non toxic environment. One in which I am sure that the meals are safe from tampering and that I can go out and socialse with the entire crew whilst away on a layover. They are actually reasonable human beings. Pity the sky gods don't understand this, their life would be much more full if they would step down a peg or two.
VB used to be great for socialising on overnights too, until one day everyone realises that living out of a suitcase sucks arse, and stays in their rooms
"Dill"
"Skygods"
"Cretin".
That's a bit nasty isn't it! Let's face it, Virgin Australia money is rubbish, one of the lowest paid 777 crews in the world. You can dress it up however you like, hanging out with hosties in slip ports etc but you're not fooling me or anyone else.
I happen to enjoy my work environment, and am happy to eat anything dished up from the galley!!!
I'm going back to wherever "Cretins" go...
"Skygods"
"Cretin".
That's a bit nasty isn't it! Let's face it, Virgin Australia money is rubbish, one of the lowest paid 777 crews in the world. You can dress it up however you like, hanging out with hosties in slip ports etc but you're not fooling me or anyone else.
I happen to enjoy my work environment, and am happy to eat anything dished up from the galley!!!
I'm going back to wherever "Cretins" go...
Maui et al,
Without the personal attacks - VA have ONE port that is currently used by the current protagonists for
"THE Lifestyle" that will exist for ever more.
MISTAKE # 1 - All and sundry will very definitely find very quickly that our bean counters will be able to fill all except 9 days in a month with either flying or rest enroute.
Your calculations mean nought when the current schedule changes and they start doing North/South flying or the schedule changes from LA only.
MISTAKE # 2 - Believing that the 'Fantastic Times' that exist now will continue unabated for years to come.
Case in point - VB in the early days - we had great overnights with crew that were more than happy to enjoy the time off on the overnights.
Currently - We have min rest on most overnights with crews totally stuffed in the crew bus and all they want to do is crash in their own bed.
I'm not trying to rain on the VA parade but the "Fantastic" times described by some and the belief that this is the "one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation" sends chills up my spine.
I wish them well but please open your eyes!
Cretins and Dills aside approx 800 VB pilots were offered opportunities with VA and the vast majority said no.
Every VB Captain was offered a 777 Command in VA and the total acceptance was less than 10!
Perhaps some of us have enough insight into the ways of Virgin that caused us to look further than the first 12 months of operation.
As for your statement regarding remuneration, time off and toxic environments I am more than happy to be guaranteed a minimum of 11 in 28 with an average of 15 in 28 - earn THIS year over $60,000 more than my 777 compatriots and live in Brisbane and have a salary that is guaranteed to increase over the life of the EBA.
For all who join VA - enjoy the opportunity and I hope that someday it will offer the rest of us in VB an appropriate advancement in our careers but for heaven's sake get a reality check.
I don't know how to put it any less offensively!
Without the personal attacks - VA have ONE port that is currently used by the current protagonists for
"THE Lifestyle" that will exist for ever more.
MISTAKE # 1 - All and sundry will very definitely find very quickly that our bean counters will be able to fill all except 9 days in a month with either flying or rest enroute.
Your calculations mean nought when the current schedule changes and they start doing North/South flying or the schedule changes from LA only.
MISTAKE # 2 - Believing that the 'Fantastic Times' that exist now will continue unabated for years to come.
Case in point - VB in the early days - we had great overnights with crew that were more than happy to enjoy the time off on the overnights.
Currently - We have min rest on most overnights with crews totally stuffed in the crew bus and all they want to do is crash in their own bed.
I'm not trying to rain on the VA parade but the "Fantastic" times described by some and the belief that this is the "one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation" sends chills up my spine.
I wish them well but please open your eyes!
Cretins and Dills aside approx 800 VB pilots were offered opportunities with VA and the vast majority said no.
Every VB Captain was offered a 777 Command in VA and the total acceptance was less than 10!
Perhaps some of us have enough insight into the ways of Virgin that caused us to look further than the first 12 months of operation.
As for your statement regarding remuneration, time off and toxic environments I am more than happy to be guaranteed a minimum of 11 in 28 with an average of 15 in 28 - earn THIS year over $60,000 more than my 777 compatriots and live in Brisbane and have a salary that is guaranteed to increase over the life of the EBA.
For all who join VA - enjoy the opportunity and I hope that someday it will offer the rest of us in VB an appropriate advancement in our careers but for heaven's sake get a reality check.
I don't know how to put it any less offensively!
Ad Astra.
Mistake #1. I don't think terribly many are saying it is the "cream job", but more, are pointing out that it's not real bad.
Mistake# 2. The "Sky Gods" bit was aimed at the other brand, not VB.
Mistake # 3. Selective memory. Do you recall all those things that were said about VB and it's "bottom feeding" staff, when it was first started. Wrong wasn't it.
Mistake # 4. Failing to account for different circumstances. The VB's offered the positions had the luxury of a secure position and future at the time they made their decisions. A lot of others did not enjoy that luxury.
Each of those who has taken the job has made a personal decision, that what was offered, in some way was a better deal than than the prevailling or expected (personal) conditions that existed at the time of that decision.
That A is better than B, is subjective and irrelevant. That the future looks better than the past, is relevant.
I am glad for you that you had a choice. I am glad that you have exercised that choice in the way that you think is appropriate to your circumstances.
Please do not assume that what is good for you is necessarily right, or good for all.
That is the reality.
Maui
Mistake #1. I don't think terribly many are saying it is the "cream job", but more, are pointing out that it's not real bad.
Mistake# 2. The "Sky Gods" bit was aimed at the other brand, not VB.
Mistake # 3. Selective memory. Do you recall all those things that were said about VB and it's "bottom feeding" staff, when it was first started. Wrong wasn't it.
Mistake # 4. Failing to account for different circumstances. The VB's offered the positions had the luxury of a secure position and future at the time they made their decisions. A lot of others did not enjoy that luxury.
Each of those who has taken the job has made a personal decision, that what was offered, in some way was a better deal than than the prevailling or expected (personal) conditions that existed at the time of that decision.
That A is better than B, is subjective and irrelevant. That the future looks better than the past, is relevant.
I am glad for you that you had a choice. I am glad that you have exercised that choice in the way that you think is appropriate to your circumstances.
Please do not assume that what is good for you is necessarily right, or good for all.
That is the reality.
Maui
Maui
At no stage have I criticised the decision of others to take whatever job they choose to. In fact I think you will find me defending a young guy several months ago when he was seeking interview information and the critics pounced on him for even considering VA. Do the search.
And I will keep on saying that I hope the Airline matures into a career that is sought after.
But its the comments of a few of the "defenders of the faith" that leaves very little confidence that they will make any effort to improve their own conditions nor do they realise that they should be on better conditions
If you are happy with a contractual maximum of 9 days off a month, remuneration that increases when the company 'chooses' to 'review' it and 1000 hours per year then I don't see a problem.
The comment of "one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation" was not mine but one of the 'faithfuls' earlier in this thread.
It is this attitude that you will be fighting against when you find your roster is full to the brim with paxing sectors, reserve days down route, training days, and a bucket load more flying in all directions of the compass. Will this young man still have a smile on his face?
When the schedule changes and a reduced overnight in LA is introduced will the boys 'scooting' around the LA freeways still be having a 'fantastic' time in their 'fantastic' job.
When the company introduces Asian destinations or domestic sectors which could make better use of both aircraft and crew and the 13 days off a month reverts to the companies contracted 9, will the excitement and wonderful lifestyle still be there?
You can guarantee some things.
1000 hours per year
9 days off per month
Your salary.
Any better than that and I will guarantee that there is one very pizzed off VA accountant working his very best to use you to the maximum that is allowable under your contract.
They did not put 9 days in the contract and wake up the next morning and say - these pilots are great guys we will give them half the month off instead!
You will have to fight for anything better!
The biggest problem that you (collectively) have in improving your T&C's is the attitude from the "Whew! - I made it" guys.
I see that attitude being displayed in some of the previous posts.
Next biggest problem will be the pizzed of VA accountant!
Enjoy the job and good luck.
At no stage have I criticised the decision of others to take whatever job they choose to. In fact I think you will find me defending a young guy several months ago when he was seeking interview information and the critics pounced on him for even considering VA. Do the search.
And I will keep on saying that I hope the Airline matures into a career that is sought after.
But its the comments of a few of the "defenders of the faith" that leaves very little confidence that they will make any effort to improve their own conditions nor do they realise that they should be on better conditions
If you are happy with a contractual maximum of 9 days off a month, remuneration that increases when the company 'chooses' to 'review' it and 1000 hours per year then I don't see a problem.
The comment of "one of the cream jobs in Australian Aviation" was not mine but one of the 'faithfuls' earlier in this thread.
It is this attitude that you will be fighting against when you find your roster is full to the brim with paxing sectors, reserve days down route, training days, and a bucket load more flying in all directions of the compass. Will this young man still have a smile on his face?
When the schedule changes and a reduced overnight in LA is introduced will the boys 'scooting' around the LA freeways still be having a 'fantastic' time in their 'fantastic' job.
When the company introduces Asian destinations or domestic sectors which could make better use of both aircraft and crew and the 13 days off a month reverts to the companies contracted 9, will the excitement and wonderful lifestyle still be there?
You can guarantee some things.
1000 hours per year
9 days off per month
Your salary.
Any better than that and I will guarantee that there is one very pizzed off VA accountant working his very best to use you to the maximum that is allowable under your contract.
They did not put 9 days in the contract and wake up the next morning and say - these pilots are great guys we will give them half the month off instead!
You will have to fight for anything better!
The biggest problem that you (collectively) have in improving your T&C's is the attitude from the "Whew! - I made it" guys.
I see that attitude being displayed in some of the previous posts.
Next biggest problem will be the pizzed of VA accountant!
Enjoy the job and good luck.
Ad-Astra.
I don't think you have said anything with regard to T&C's that is unknown to the guys who have taken the step. However that step was taken on the basis that, given a sucessful operation, things can and will be improved. I believe the same philosophy was adopted by those who started when VB was not much more than a concept. If in the event of our success, T&C's do not meet expectations, the company will likely be faced with an increased attrition rate that will cost dollars and force the powers that be, to reassess the formula. In the event that we fail the T&C's will be irrelevant, but at least all those concerned can walk away knowing that they have helped in the battle for sucess rather than crawling away having that knawing feeling that somehow we have contributed to the demise, by expecting too much too soon.
It seems to me that you have little knowledge of the way long haul ops work. To a large degree the beancounters are constrained by the nature of the operation and the limitations of the regulations. Paxing long haul crews around the network is totally wasteful. Unless you have a weekly service or close spaced destinations, (neither are planned or envisaged),it is far better to keep the crews in place than it is to pax them across the network. Those very beancounters you talk of, are smart enough to recognise that paxing is indicative of a failed scheduling system, and will stand on it as soon as it rears it's head, as it cost heaps.
We will start doing north south flying. Explain to me how that changes the dynamics of the roster. From a crew scheduling point of view 10 to 12 hours flights separated by 24 to 50 hours of rest is the same whether it is north south or east west, only its a lot easier on the body given the lack of time zone changes.
The most likely change to our working lives is likely to be a reduction in outport rest time as frequencies increase. The net effect of this is to increase the unavailable time at home.
Just simple maths should bring home to you the contrast between short and long haul. 1000 hours at an average of 10 hours/day gives 100 days of operation, 14 hours will reduce that to 71. On the other hand 1000 hours at 6 per day gives 166 days of ops. Given the nature of the respective operations it is far easier to achieve the max in the long haul.
Now looking at those 166 days in short haul, most will be starting or finishing at the ends of the day. Lets say 84 early starts and 84 late finishes, each of which, to a degree screws up the day before or the day after. On the same basis the longhauler could have 35 to 50 each of earlys and lates, but the reality is that departures are generally at more civilised hours. At the moment all our starts are late and our finishes early, and given the inflight rest arrangements the duty is not arduous.
Having worked up to 105 hours med/long and also having done 78 sectors/75 hours short I can assure you that the longhaul is a whole lot easier on the body.
I hope we are still around when you work out that there is more to this life than chasing the big bucks. In the meantime enjoy your extra 60k.
Maui
I don't think you have said anything with regard to T&C's that is unknown to the guys who have taken the step. However that step was taken on the basis that, given a sucessful operation, things can and will be improved. I believe the same philosophy was adopted by those who started when VB was not much more than a concept. If in the event of our success, T&C's do not meet expectations, the company will likely be faced with an increased attrition rate that will cost dollars and force the powers that be, to reassess the formula. In the event that we fail the T&C's will be irrelevant, but at least all those concerned can walk away knowing that they have helped in the battle for sucess rather than crawling away having that knawing feeling that somehow we have contributed to the demise, by expecting too much too soon.
It seems to me that you have little knowledge of the way long haul ops work. To a large degree the beancounters are constrained by the nature of the operation and the limitations of the regulations. Paxing long haul crews around the network is totally wasteful. Unless you have a weekly service or close spaced destinations, (neither are planned or envisaged),it is far better to keep the crews in place than it is to pax them across the network. Those very beancounters you talk of, are smart enough to recognise that paxing is indicative of a failed scheduling system, and will stand on it as soon as it rears it's head, as it cost heaps.
We will start doing north south flying. Explain to me how that changes the dynamics of the roster. From a crew scheduling point of view 10 to 12 hours flights separated by 24 to 50 hours of rest is the same whether it is north south or east west, only its a lot easier on the body given the lack of time zone changes.
The most likely change to our working lives is likely to be a reduction in outport rest time as frequencies increase. The net effect of this is to increase the unavailable time at home.
Just simple maths should bring home to you the contrast between short and long haul. 1000 hours at an average of 10 hours/day gives 100 days of operation, 14 hours will reduce that to 71. On the other hand 1000 hours at 6 per day gives 166 days of ops. Given the nature of the respective operations it is far easier to achieve the max in the long haul.
Now looking at those 166 days in short haul, most will be starting or finishing at the ends of the day. Lets say 84 early starts and 84 late finishes, each of which, to a degree screws up the day before or the day after. On the same basis the longhauler could have 35 to 50 each of earlys and lates, but the reality is that departures are generally at more civilised hours. At the moment all our starts are late and our finishes early, and given the inflight rest arrangements the duty is not arduous.
Having worked up to 105 hours med/long and also having done 78 sectors/75 hours short I can assure you that the longhaul is a whole lot easier on the body.
I hope we are still around when you work out that there is more to this life than chasing the big bucks. In the meantime enjoy your extra 60k.
Maui