Qantas Cabin Services Priorities
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so sq have 1/3 less management, up to 22 crew on a 747-400. no wonder they get such a big bonus and highest ratings in cabin service. when mini-me gets in wait for the broom to sweep through management. twiggs, this is why we call you 'the visitors'. hope you didn't throw out the situations vacant notice in yesterdays newspaper..... good luck!
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indamiddle....
You've hit the nail on the head and it's something the office and it's spokesperson Twiggs does not admit or even want to talk about.
It's almost impossible to compete with another airline if they have more crew in the cabin.The surveys tell us that other airlines cabin crew are more visible....the simple reason is that there are more of them.You cannot deny that if there are 4 or 5 more crew at least then the crew presence in the cabin is more pronounced.The passengers notice it and the surveys reflect it.
Other airlines have more crew ,less management and get better survey results.Yet company reps like twiggs and other office staff continue to talk about crew costs.
The irony of this is one of Twiggs most famous lines...."it's not the money that's important it's the destinations"
You've hit the nail on the head and it's something the office and it's spokesperson Twiggs does not admit or even want to talk about.
It's almost impossible to compete with another airline if they have more crew in the cabin.The surveys tell us that other airlines cabin crew are more visible....the simple reason is that there are more of them.You cannot deny that if there are 4 or 5 more crew at least then the crew presence in the cabin is more pronounced.The passengers notice it and the surveys reflect it.
Other airlines have more crew ,less management and get better survey results.Yet company reps like twiggs and other office staff continue to talk about crew costs.
The irony of this is one of Twiggs most famous lines...."it's not the money that's important it's the destinations"
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Not much difference really, although it really means nothing unless you take into account the p-j-y ratio.
I find it very funny that because I correct the inaccurate information you lot post here you think I am the devil.
Just like lobe trying to rewrite the physics books, you can write all the crap on this forum that you want, but the truth will never change.
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I find it very funny that because I correct the inaccurate information you lot post here you think I am the devil.
You must have drawn the short straw to work in the office on Sunday Twiggs but maybe that's why you are online as it's fairly quiet on the Weekends.
They never admit anything such as other airlines having more crew and only complain to you that other airlines crew are more visible......pretty obvious really when there are more of them but we are talking of twiggs and the office
If they can't understand the simple fact that more crew in the cabin equates to increased passenger satisfaction then how on earth could you expect Twiggs to understand something more complex like physics.
the truth will never change
However,you should have added that it will always be slanted and coloured by those who don't want the truth to be known.
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Arguing that we can't provide as good a service as our competitors because we have less crew is pointless exercise.
Whilst most asian carriers do have slightly more crew, the real advantage they have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S.
We are very lucky as workers in Australia that we do have such protections for the employee, but that does not remove the fact that other airlines exploit this to their advantage.
The post by by mohican went right over the head of most here and really was very sound advice.
The one thing we have to do if we are to protect our conditions is to prove we are worthy of them, and to try to justify having a bad attitude just because management are telling us to put a badge in a particular position is insane.
There is no justification for having a bad attitude in the service industry, no matter what wage you are on.
Now the posts by RENURPP and orangputi may be true if they travel in economy as I believe that is where Qantas Cabin Service Priorities are wrong.
I believe our service in J and P is excellent, although our hard product will never be as good as our competitors.
Ordinary and her gang do need to be booted because this crap about doing a 4 hour service in economy, just so that we are forced to be in the cabin, is ridiculous.
The end result is that the whole aircraft is being tied up until that epic is over and consequently we are less able to satisfy individual passenger requests, which is why the impression of unavailibilty is felt.
Whilst most asian carriers do have slightly more crew, the real advantage they have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S.
We are very lucky as workers in Australia that we do have such protections for the employee, but that does not remove the fact that other airlines exploit this to their advantage.
The post by by mohican went right over the head of most here and really was very sound advice.
The one thing we have to do if we are to protect our conditions is to prove we are worthy of them, and to try to justify having a bad attitude just because management are telling us to put a badge in a particular position is insane.
There is no justification for having a bad attitude in the service industry, no matter what wage you are on.
Now the posts by RENURPP and orangputi may be true if they travel in economy as I believe that is where Qantas Cabin Service Priorities are wrong.
I believe our service in J and P is excellent, although our hard product will never be as good as our competitors.
Ordinary and her gang do need to be booted because this crap about doing a 4 hour service in economy, just so that we are forced to be in the cabin, is ridiculous.
The end result is that the whole aircraft is being tied up until that epic is over and consequently we are less able to satisfy individual passenger requests, which is why the impression of unavailibilty is felt.
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Hey lobey great to see you back mate and I laughed when I saw your point about it being quiet in the office.
It must be a sluggish in the fishbowl today.I bet they even managed to finish the Sunday papers and chuck a few clause 11's around as well.I gotta laugh about the story twiggsy girl puts out about blaming OH&S and crew rest for the idea pax have of fewer crew with us.
The reason twiggsy girl is that there are less crew.
Only the office would say that twiggsy because it would mean admitting they are wrong.
Simple questions Twiggsy girl.
1: DO other airlines on our runs have more crew than we do or not?
2: Since we all know the answer is yes then DO the pax see more crew in the cabin than with us?
3: DO the pax get drinks faster,meals quicker,call bells answered faster because they have more crew in the cabin?
YES,YES & YES because it's hard to go head to head with a competitor with more players.It would be like a football team fielding a game with a few players less than the opposition.The coach keeps coming up with ideas to make it look like you have as many players as the other team but all the people in the grandstand can see whats going on.
No one is being fooled by the antics of the office twiggs and as someone else said your on a hiding to nothing if you keep trying to shift the attention away from this.
Nobody is saying that crew have a bad attitude because of bad management although it's good to see you admit the management is bad.What we are saying is that crew would be in a better frame of mind if they were not hounded by the office goons for some insignificant detail.If you think the pax are worried or even notice a name badge a cm or 2 different to the runway guide you are deluded.
Years ago the crew I was on swapped name badges with the girls wearing the boys badges and so on.Not one pax noticed or said anything which say's it all.But you and the rest of the office would have stood us all down and given us clause 11's for having fun.
It's also typical of you and other office types to jump in and say our crew have a bad attitiude.
Why is that twiggsy girl? why can't it be?
No,although a 4 hour saga in y/c is bad for the pax because they really want to just get their food and go to sleep or watch a movie instead of waiting a million years between a drink and a meal and then a cuppa.
The real problem about the impression of more crew on other airlines is that there are more of them on other airlines ,pure and simple and yes insane as you put it.
It must be a sluggish in the fishbowl today.I bet they even managed to finish the Sunday papers and chuck a few clause 11's around as well.I gotta laugh about the story twiggsy girl puts out about blaming OH&S and crew rest for the idea pax have of fewer crew with us.
The reason twiggsy girl is that there are less crew.
Arguing that we can't provide as good a service as our competitors because we have less crew is pointless exercise.
Simple questions Twiggsy girl.
1: DO other airlines on our runs have more crew than we do or not?
2: Since we all know the answer is yes then DO the pax see more crew in the cabin than with us?
3: DO the pax get drinks faster,meals quicker,call bells answered faster because they have more crew in the cabin?
YES,YES & YES because it's hard to go head to head with a competitor with more players.It would be like a football team fielding a game with a few players less than the opposition.The coach keeps coming up with ideas to make it look like you have as many players as the other team but all the people in the grandstand can see whats going on.
No one is being fooled by the antics of the office twiggs and as someone else said your on a hiding to nothing if you keep trying to shift the attention away from this.
justify having a bad attitude just because management are telling us to put a badge in a particular position is insane.
Years ago the crew I was on swapped name badges with the girls wearing the boys badges and so on.Not one pax noticed or said anything which say's it all.But you and the rest of the office would have stood us all down and given us clause 11's for having fun.
It's also typical of you and other office types to jump in and say our crew have a bad attitiude.
although our hard product will never be as good as our competitors.
consequently we are less able to satisfy individual passenger requests, which is why the impression of unavailibilty is felt.
The real problem about the impression of more crew on other airlines is that there are more of them on other airlines ,pure and simple and yes insane as you put it.
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just watching from the sidelines
having a cup of tea then this rubbish is posted. Twiggsy says
"Whilst most asian carriers do have slightly more crew, the real advantage they have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S."
now i really know you have no idea what the state of affairs are with our competitors. i wont go into details but lets put it into a simple sentence, which you may or may not understand.They are all governed by their local civil aviation regulations(which covers a lot of the above mentioned).
"Whilst most asian carriers do have slightly more crew, the real advantage they have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S."
now i really know you have no idea what the state of affairs are with our competitors. i wont go into details but lets put it into a simple sentence, which you may or may not understand.They are all governed by their local civil aviation regulations(which covers a lot of the above mentioned).
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Quote- "the real advantage they [Asian carriers] have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S."
____________
Twiggs,
I have a rhetorical question for you.
Whilst it's understood that you do work in the office are you REALLY this cretinous????
Tell us what "advantage" [your word] Qantas would have, had it the ability to DENY it's cabin crew a safe working environment or a seat to sit on to achieve rest.??
____________
Twiggs,
I have a rhetorical question for you.
Whilst it's understood that you do work in the office are you REALLY this cretinous????
Tell us what "advantage" [your word] Qantas would have, had it the ability to DENY it's cabin crew a safe working environment or a seat to sit on to achieve rest.??
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Speedbird,
it is only people like lobe who doesn't like people disagreeing with him that started the rumour that I work in the office.
I don't.
Advantage, well maybe I chose the wrong word, as you seem to think I think it is a good thing.
I'm stating fact, that's all.
When you see f/a's from other carriers pushing carts around on their own and not having a break on an 8 hour sector, you will realise how good we have it.
Then maybe you will realise my point, and that is we cannot afford to let any managerial bullying tactic get to us and let it affect how we treat the passengers onboard.
Most of us don't, but the fools that get on here and try to justify such behaviour really should not be in the service industry.
The people who do have attitude are few, but it is those few who give us all a bad name.
By the way Speedbird, you never did tell us how many hours SQ crew fly to earn the same as our QCCA crew do.
it is only people like lobe who doesn't like people disagreeing with him that started the rumour that I work in the office.
I don't.
Advantage, well maybe I chose the wrong word, as you seem to think I think it is a good thing.
I'm stating fact, that's all.
When you see f/a's from other carriers pushing carts around on their own and not having a break on an 8 hour sector, you will realise how good we have it.
Then maybe you will realise my point, and that is we cannot afford to let any managerial bullying tactic get to us and let it affect how we treat the passengers onboard.
Most of us don't, but the fools that get on here and try to justify such behaviour really should not be in the service industry.
The people who do have attitude are few, but it is those few who give us all a bad name.
By the way Speedbird, you never did tell us how many hours SQ crew fly to earn the same as our QCCA crew do.
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Quote- "my point........ is we cannot afford to let any managerial bullying tactic get to us and let it affect how we treat the passengers onboard."
Do you understand the relationship between cause and effect?
________
You are also implying that Singapore Airlines crew work longer hours than QF crew do for their [last years] joining wage/package of $60 000 SIN +.
Do They?
Do you understand the relationship between cause and effect?
________
You are also implying that Singapore Airlines crew work longer hours than QF crew do for their [last years] joining wage/package of $60 000 SIN +.
Do They?
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The figure $3500 per month is including all allowances.
Their basic pay is close to $1000 per month.
Secondly yes, they work much more hours than QAL crew, probably more like QCCA's maximum, and they only get credited hours blocks-blocks, ie no pay prior to push back or after arrival.
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Lets break it down for you shall we Twiggs.
Package for brand new Singapore Airlines Cabin Crew-
$3500 X 12 = 42000
Plus Medical benefits
Plus Dental benefits
Plus 1 free return ticket to anywhere they fly.
Plus last year's bonus paid to all staff calculated at just over 6 months pay.
Looks like a $60 000 + package to me and substantially more than what a Coles "check out chick" would earn here..
Package for brand new Singapore Airlines Cabin Crew-
$3500 X 12 = 42000
Plus Medical benefits
Plus Dental benefits
Plus 1 free return ticket to anywhere they fly.
Plus last year's bonus paid to all staff calculated at just over 6 months pay.
Looks like a $60 000 + package to me and substantially more than what a Coles "check out chick" would earn here..
Last edited by speedbirdhouse; 23rd Nov 2008 at 08:58.
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Speedbird, you provided a link from which I quote the following "Upon graduation from training, you can look forward to a basic salary and various allowances amounting to about SGD$3,500 a month"
How do you get from $3500 per month to $60000+ per year?
OK, you beat me to the post button, unfortunately the 6 month bonus is calculated on basic pay, which puts your calculations out just a bit.
So, probably closer to $48000, which is only because of a performance bonus.
Probably about the same as QCCA when you add in allowances etc.
How do you get from $3500 per month to $60000+ per year?
OK, you beat me to the post button, unfortunately the 6 month bonus is calculated on basic pay, which puts your calculations out just a bit.
So, probably closer to $48000, which is only because of a performance bonus.
Probably about the same as QCCA when you add in allowances etc.
Last edited by twiggs; 23rd Nov 2008 at 09:05. Reason: too slow
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Just popped in to see what’s going on and as usual it’s Twiggs and her myopic viewpoint.
So apparently,I don’t like someone disagreeing with me…has anyone here watched Twiggs posts when someone disagree’s with her…Look at her posts with Speedbird….In fact I don’t doubt that she has a hot line to the moderators.
Twiggs tells us that she doesn’t work in the office…..Now I wonder where we could have got the impression that she does…Let’s look at some of Twiggs best posts and how they relate to the role of Cabin Crew and their relationship with the office.In other words what side of the fence she sits on or in…
These are direct quotes from Twiggs own posts and although she seems to have trouble remembering her own words anyone can look them up and see for themselves.....
In other words,QCCA
So once again Twiggs takes the viewpoint crew were guilty before an investigation or trial and is prepared to post it in a public forum…
So does this sound like a crew member talking or someone in the office.Of course now that this has been pointed out, Twiggs is saying that she was only being sarcastic….but to me it just sounds like a company spokesperson.KB couldn’t have put it better for the company.
Mmmmmm Company or crew talking with that one.
The best one though is this one where Twiggs let a bit too much information out about a crew that elected not to extend because of a delay.Twiggs was not one of the crew but seems to know a lot of inside info…..
You can make up your own minds after reading her quotes as to her real job....
So apparently,I don’t like someone disagreeing with me…has anyone here watched Twiggs posts when someone disagree’s with her…Look at her posts with Speedbird….In fact I don’t doubt that she has a hot line to the moderators.
Twiggs tells us that she doesn’t work in the office…..Now I wonder where we could have got the impression that she does…Let’s look at some of Twiggs best posts and how they relate to the role of Cabin Crew and their relationship with the office.In other words what side of the fence she sits on or in…
These are direct quotes from Twiggs own posts and although she seems to have trouble remembering her own words anyone can look them up and see for themselves.....
I think everyone has lost sight of what this job is about, and it aint money.
It's about the destinations.
It's about the destinations.
Anyone heard about the 2 Aust based guys stood down for providing their own specialised service to a 17 year old girl in the cabin crew rest seats on a LHR flight?
Even Emirates have no crew rest seats on their 777's.
Jet* Asia definitely do not have them and I can't imagine Jet* international would waste valuable pax seats to put crew in when they have perfectly good jump seats to sit in.
Jet* Asia definitely do not have them and I can't imagine Jet* international would waste valuable pax seats to put crew in when they have perfectly good jump seats to sit in.
The slipping formula, as it stands, will be very hard to retain as it applies regardless of the fatigue factor of the previous sectors
Also the minimum length of it being 46hrs is probably difficult to justify.
The best one though is this one where Twiggs let a bit too much information out about a crew that elected not to extend because of a delay.Twiggs was not one of the crew but seems to know a lot of inside info…..
In the delay in question, one option presented to the crew was to take minimum rest in Narita and get home as scheduled, and the duty was to be treated as a continuous one (lots of overtime), from sign on in MEL till sign off in SYD.
It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.
The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD
It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.
The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD
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Synopsis
1.Cabin Services Management are inept buffoons
2.Qantas as a corporation is imploding
3.It is going to take a gargantuan effort on the part of Allan Joyce to sort the mess out.
4.It is clear it will not happen overnight.
5.Sniping at each other achieves nothing.
Most Qantas Crew come to work expecting(a) to be delayed(b),to have a number of defects in the Cabin and(c) to have the resources necessary to do their job missing.
The whole situation is a sad sad farce.
A once proud and innovative Airline brought to its knees by a vertically challenged,poorly educated dysfunctional egomaniac and his greedy band of trough feeders.
Most of us are way over the fear factor.We will not be threatened or intimidated by Cabin Services Managment.
It has now become sport to bait them.A little lite entertainment before going to work always works for me.They are so easy to take the piss out of
2.Qantas as a corporation is imploding
3.It is going to take a gargantuan effort on the part of Allan Joyce to sort the mess out.
4.It is clear it will not happen overnight.
5.Sniping at each other achieves nothing.
Most Qantas Crew come to work expecting(a) to be delayed(b),to have a number of defects in the Cabin and(c) to have the resources necessary to do their job missing.
The whole situation is a sad sad farce.
A once proud and innovative Airline brought to its knees by a vertically challenged,poorly educated dysfunctional egomaniac and his greedy band of trough feeders.
Most of us are way over the fear factor.We will not be threatened or intimidated by Cabin Services Managment.
It has now become sport to bait them.A little lite entertainment before going to work always works for me.They are so easy to take the piss out of
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So very true.
Had a conversation with a truly excellent long serving Business First flight attendant recently.
She explained that the frustration and contempt she holds for QF management are never taken out on the fare paying passenger because as she explained. They are not responsible for the way she is treated.
She does however at every opportunity use passive, obstructive, resistance towards those that "manage" her.
Cause and effect.
Had a conversation with a truly excellent long serving Business First flight attendant recently.
She explained that the frustration and contempt she holds for QF management are never taken out on the fare paying passenger because as she explained. They are not responsible for the way she is treated.
She does however at every opportunity use passive, obstructive, resistance towards those that "manage" her.
Cause and effect.
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jqi crew rest on a330 is row of seats that are 'blocked off' (meaning inseatd of headrest covers it says "crew rest only"). These seats are not necessairly blocked off esp exDPS and is at the "CSM's" discretion.