QF EBA Voted Down
"Mind you he's crafty and while it looks like he prefers applying the pressure using non industrial tactics, he has a record of taking Qantas head on when it matters." quote
Gingerbread,
I realise that this is, perhaps, an inappropriate forum to air AIPA's dirty laundry, but in what has Wood-I taken on Charlie Q and won? In fact, when has he seriously taken Charlie Q on?
The now notorious court cases at once spring to mind. You've got to admit that the company was savagely flogged with several limp celery sticks.
Gingerbread,
I realise that this is, perhaps, an inappropriate forum to air AIPA's dirty laundry, but in what has Wood-I taken on Charlie Q and won? In fact, when has he seriously taken Charlie Q on?
The now notorious court cases at once spring to mind. You've got to admit that the company was savagely flogged with several limp celery sticks.
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LOL wrote:
"Thank you for the PM and background to the politics within AIPA but I need this answered if anyone can. Who TF stopped the initiation of a bargaining period was it Woods/Duggan or the alternative Jackson/Susz team?
I don't care who wants to be President as long as it isn't the peanut who voted down this resolution to formally notify Qantas that we are serious about resolving our EBA and the current offer just doesn't make the grade. "
I see your question has been answered LL, yes it's Capt Labrador and F/O Corridor Crawler backed by the company Lap Dogs on Com!
A mate of mine came up with the following thoughts about the coincidence of why the Lap Dogs obviously at the companys beck and call so vehemently wanted anything to do with EBA8 dead and buried and never to be resurrected!
What if due to economic circumstances the company is now strategically planning for a big worldwide economic slow down.
Killing off EBA8 would achieve a two fold aim ,firstly help with Capt Labradors aspirations to become the next company puppet president and secondly by killing off EBA 8 (which was mostly negotiated at a time when pilots had more leverage) the Company gets rid of a massive cost impost.
What do you think the difference in monetry terms of Minimum guarantee of EBA 8 stacked up against the Min guarantee under EBA7 would work out to be if the Company decides to park say 1/4 or so of the fleet?
"Thank you for the PM and background to the politics within AIPA but I need this answered if anyone can. Who TF stopped the initiation of a bargaining period was it Woods/Duggan or the alternative Jackson/Susz team?
I don't care who wants to be President as long as it isn't the peanut who voted down this resolution to formally notify Qantas that we are serious about resolving our EBA and the current offer just doesn't make the grade. "
I see your question has been answered LL, yes it's Capt Labrador and F/O Corridor Crawler backed by the company Lap Dogs on Com!
A mate of mine came up with the following thoughts about the coincidence of why the Lap Dogs obviously at the companys beck and call so vehemently wanted anything to do with EBA8 dead and buried and never to be resurrected!
What if due to economic circumstances the company is now strategically planning for a big worldwide economic slow down.
Killing off EBA8 would achieve a two fold aim ,firstly help with Capt Labradors aspirations to become the next company puppet president and secondly by killing off EBA 8 (which was mostly negotiated at a time when pilots had more leverage) the Company gets rid of a massive cost impost.
What do you think the difference in monetry terms of Minimum guarantee of EBA 8 stacked up against the Min guarantee under EBA7 would work out to be if the Company decides to park say 1/4 or so of the fleet?
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Mustavagander:
I realise that this is, perhaps, an inappropriate forum to air AIPA's dirty laundry, but in what has Wood-I taken on Charlie Q and won? In fact, when has he seriously taken Charlie Q on?
The now notorious court cases at once spring to mind. You've got to admit that the company was savagely flogged with several limp celery sticks.
Well Musta ,off the top of my head, I'd say the Senate inquiry into Casa would be a good start, the subsequent Casa audit into Qantas that couldn't be white washed becase of the Senate spot light ,ruffled a few Qantas feathers.
Then you have the Cabin Air Quality panel upon which AIPA has a seat, I notice Qantas doesn't.
Then you hear rumours of the role WoodI played in the APA demise, I'd say a lame duck president would have done nothing.
As a result of one of those "notorious " court cases as you called them,AIPA now has the right to represent Qantas Group pilots, this is after Holt ,the last puppet president we had ,and the worlds best Aviation Lawer in Australia botched the original application.
AIPA is the only pilots Union I hear about actually trying to progress an AusALPA combined/unified pilots union.
WoodI has been strategic enough to actually rebuild AIPA from being just a plain old Bargaining Agent and turned it into an industrial body like most other Professional Unions .
Yes for the first time AIPA and that also means pilots in Australia now have an important voice in Canberra that has enabled them to influence legislation prior to it becoming Law, a massive stategic move.
AIPA is now a prolific writer of papers for government submissions. AIPA is now putting an alternative view to Ministers, where once the only opinion they got was QANTAS'
AIPA now goes to Canberra and no longer do our reps get the old ,"AIPA you're that pensioner insurance mob", what interest do you have in aviation.
This is all just off the top of my head .
I'm sure WoodI or someone closer to the executive could add a lot more.
I realise that this is, perhaps, an inappropriate forum to air AIPA's dirty laundry, but in what has Wood-I taken on Charlie Q and won? In fact, when has he seriously taken Charlie Q on?
The now notorious court cases at once spring to mind. You've got to admit that the company was savagely flogged with several limp celery sticks.
Well Musta ,off the top of my head, I'd say the Senate inquiry into Casa would be a good start, the subsequent Casa audit into Qantas that couldn't be white washed becase of the Senate spot light ,ruffled a few Qantas feathers.
Then you have the Cabin Air Quality panel upon which AIPA has a seat, I notice Qantas doesn't.
Then you hear rumours of the role WoodI played in the APA demise, I'd say a lame duck president would have done nothing.
As a result of one of those "notorious " court cases as you called them,AIPA now has the right to represent Qantas Group pilots, this is after Holt ,the last puppet president we had ,and the worlds best Aviation Lawer in Australia botched the original application.
AIPA is the only pilots Union I hear about actually trying to progress an AusALPA combined/unified pilots union.
WoodI has been strategic enough to actually rebuild AIPA from being just a plain old Bargaining Agent and turned it into an industrial body like most other Professional Unions .
Yes for the first time AIPA and that also means pilots in Australia now have an important voice in Canberra that has enabled them to influence legislation prior to it becoming Law, a massive stategic move.
AIPA is now a prolific writer of papers for government submissions. AIPA is now putting an alternative view to Ministers, where once the only opinion they got was QANTAS'
AIPA now goes to Canberra and no longer do our reps get the old ,"AIPA you're that pensioner insurance mob", what interest do you have in aviation.
This is all just off the top of my head .
I'm sure WoodI or someone closer to the executive could add a lot more.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 1st Oct 2008 at 07:37.
gasket baby,
You DO live on this earth I assume.
WTF???
Wood-I and APA demise? Nothing to do with it.
Tell me about the court case re relief from flying for AIPA executive.
Tell me how many "Qantas group pilots" have signed up to AIPA.
Tell me when AusALPA came into being.
I won't bother to delve further into your "reply". IMHO it falls from the southern end of a north bound horse.
You DO live on this earth I assume.
WTF???
Wood-I and APA demise? Nothing to do with it.
Tell me about the court case re relief from flying for AIPA executive.
Tell me how many "Qantas group pilots" have signed up to AIPA.
Tell me when AusALPA came into being.
I won't bother to delve further into your "reply". IMHO it falls from the southern end of a north bound horse.
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mustafagander,
I'd suggest that there was a lot more to the APA deal falling over than just the accepted notion of a missed fax.
Do some digging and find the correlation between the faxer who was late and Merrill Lynch. Right WoodI had nothing to do with it! You obviously know more than me! I'll leave it there for good reason.
Time relief, I'd suggest you talk to AIPA legal as to the reasoning behind that one. My take on it is, a one off win was all that would have been achieved when it was won and I believe the strategic worth of winning back independent arbitration would be worth a hell of a lot more than the one off monetary payment ,therefore worth the horse trade.
Why did we lose Arbitration in the first place Mustafagander?
Answer me that!
Still waiting for Holts excuse as to why he either wittingly or unwittingly signed that one away.
That's the reason behind all the so call expensive court action!
As to signing up members,well, build the field and they will come!
Yet the last puppet and his overpaid lawer couldn't even get that one right.
How much money would have been wasted if WoodI and his team hadn't picked up the original application error on the Coverage case?
AusAlpa , I'm well aware of the genisis of AusAlpa. How many other previous Presidents have done anything to get it up and running proper?.
Diddly squat!
How many hours ,days, weeks, months has WoodI and his team spent progressing this issue, yet always it's the same group how oppose such an important concept.Guess who leads that group? Yep, the very bloke who has vowed to overthrow WoodI and lead AIPA into a progressive dialogue filled cosy QANTAS/AIPA nirvana. Guess if he wins AusAlpa will remain as it is ,an unrealised concept !
As to your parting shot ,well from those very droppings can grow wonderous things!
Nice talking with you Mustafa.
I'd suggest that there was a lot more to the APA deal falling over than just the accepted notion of a missed fax.
Do some digging and find the correlation between the faxer who was late and Merrill Lynch. Right WoodI had nothing to do with it! You obviously know more than me! I'll leave it there for good reason.
Time relief, I'd suggest you talk to AIPA legal as to the reasoning behind that one. My take on it is, a one off win was all that would have been achieved when it was won and I believe the strategic worth of winning back independent arbitration would be worth a hell of a lot more than the one off monetary payment ,therefore worth the horse trade.
Why did we lose Arbitration in the first place Mustafagander?
Answer me that!
Still waiting for Holts excuse as to why he either wittingly or unwittingly signed that one away.
That's the reason behind all the so call expensive court action!
As to signing up members,well, build the field and they will come!
Yet the last puppet and his overpaid lawer couldn't even get that one right.
How much money would have been wasted if WoodI and his team hadn't picked up the original application error on the Coverage case?
AusAlpa , I'm well aware of the genisis of AusAlpa. How many other previous Presidents have done anything to get it up and running proper?.
Diddly squat!
How many hours ,days, weeks, months has WoodI and his team spent progressing this issue, yet always it's the same group how oppose such an important concept.Guess who leads that group? Yep, the very bloke who has vowed to overthrow WoodI and lead AIPA into a progressive dialogue filled cosy QANTAS/AIPA nirvana. Guess if he wins AusAlpa will remain as it is ,an unrealised concept !
As to your parting shot ,well from those very droppings can grow wonderous things!
Nice talking with you Mustafa.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 1st Oct 2008 at 08:29.
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LL. It was the second team you mentioned that voted the bargaining period down.
Jackson/Susz step aside and let the men do their thing. We did our time in pergatory for 89 with years of muppet leadership until 2 years ago. The last thing we need is another pretender leading us. Just get on with it.
The company are laughing at this circus and Woods is Bozo the clown. The court cases are still there by pure arse , if the EBA was voted up these would been given away (over 1million dollars almost down the drain). AIPA is a joke and if it doesn't sort itself out soon then many members will leave. Woods is still suing COM members and he continues to lie about his involvement in financial sideshows. Talk about dumb and dumber these guys take the cake. I believe many proposals were put to Woods to get on with it but Woods continues to vacillate.
AUS ALPA continues to be mismanaged by Woods/Somerville being deceitful. Who supports VIPA and their bid for registration? Both lawyers do work for AIPA. Really going to help build the trust. Driving a wedge between AIPA and AFAP. Let Woods run AIPA for 2 more years and you will really see anarchy. Well good luck guys, run with it and you will regret it.
AUS ALPA continues to be mismanaged by Woods/Somerville being deceitful. Who supports VIPA and their bid for registration? Both lawyers do work for AIPA. Really going to help build the trust. Driving a wedge between AIPA and AFAP. Let Woods run AIPA for 2 more years and you will really see anarchy. Well good luck guys, run with it and you will regret it.
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Let Woods run AIPA for 2 more years and you will really see anarchy.
I believe many proposals were put to Woods to get on with it but Woods continues to vacillate.
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You misinterpret who dumb and dumber are liger.
In order to lodge a notice of bargaining period one must have compiled a final log of claims.
Is it not AIPA's intent to survey the membership in order to find out what they want? How then can you have a log of claims if you don't know what the members want?
Was there a push by some to use the Woods \ Duggan resoundingly rejected document to create a log of claims and lodge with the commission? Sound like putting the horse before the cart.
Someone could \ should dig a bit deeper into the company being used for the survey by Woods and they would find some interesting links to the ALP and the books of AIPA may show a retainer.
In order to lodge a notice of bargaining period one must have compiled a final log of claims.
Is it not AIPA's intent to survey the membership in order to find out what they want? How then can you have a log of claims if you don't know what the members want?
Was there a push by some to use the Woods \ Duggan resoundingly rejected document to create a log of claims and lodge with the commission? Sound like putting the horse before the cart.
Someone could \ should dig a bit deeper into the company being used for the survey by Woods and they would find some interesting links to the ALP and the books of AIPA may show a retainer.
Last edited by What The; 1st Oct 2008 at 21:55.
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Is it not AIPA's intent to survey the membership in order to find out what they want? How then can you have a log of claims if you don't know what the members want?
Last edited by ligerlover; 2nd Oct 2008 at 03:19.
"I may be a tad green at this but wouldn't you think that our EBA committee who have been negotiating for 2 years would know what we want?"
Well given the deal that they put together and wholeheartedly endorsed was voted down by an overwhelming majority, I think the answer to that question would have to be NO!
Well given the deal that they put together and wholeheartedly endorsed was voted down by an overwhelming majority, I think the answer to that question would have to be NO!
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Grow up.
The argument that Woods is being challenged by 2 people intent on furthering their careers at our expense is immature and absurd.
The counter could be that Woods and Somerville are using AIPA funds and time to further their political aspirations and ties within the ALP but that would be just as silly now wouldn’t it?
The argument that Woods is being challenged by 2 people intent on furthering their careers at our expense is immature and absurd.
The counter could be that Woods and Somerville are using AIPA funds and time to further their political aspirations and ties within the ALP but that would be just as silly now wouldn’t it?
Last edited by What The; 2nd Oct 2008 at 02:36.
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quit the semantics
Put a motion to your executive from the floor or if you're really fair dinkum create a petition, if so many of you guys didn't like the company's offer put your money where your mouth or in this case vote is
"Lodge for PIA now in pursuit of our ORIGINAL log of claims"
See who knocks it back and you'll have most of your answers
Keep in mind that the support you gave the us, the engineers, on the ground will be reciprocated when required, because of our dispute we are no longer afraid to stand up
Put a motion to your executive from the floor or if you're really fair dinkum create a petition, if so many of you guys didn't like the company's offer put your money where your mouth or in this case vote is
"Lodge for PIA now in pursuit of our ORIGINAL log of claims"
See who knocks it back and you'll have most of your answers
Keep in mind that the support you gave the us, the engineers, on the ground will be reciprocated when required, because of our dispute we are no longer afraid to stand up
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The argument that Woods is being challenged by 2 people intent on furthering their careers at our expense is immature and absurd.
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What's that Liger ?
dUMB AND dUMBER?
For a minute there I thought you were talking about the last Muppet
President and his brother "the village idot " who I think everyone referred to him as.
dUMB AND dUMBER?
For a minute there I thought you were talking about the last Muppet
President and his brother "the village idot " who I think everyone referred to him as.
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Who is us all?
Do you think that people share your bitter views?
You are an immature and ignorant fool.
BTW it's YOU'RE not YOUR.
And yes, spelling and comprehension do form part of an educated and civilised society. You, however, are just a whinger who thinks they know something but in reality just believe the lies you are fed.
Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy.
Do you think that people share your bitter views?
You are an immature and ignorant fool.
BTW it's YOU'RE not YOUR.
And yes, spelling and comprehension do form part of an educated and civilised society. You, however, are just a whinger who thinks they know something but in reality just believe the lies you are fed.
Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy.
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The silence is deafening!
1661 people vote No to an EBA and their reps fade to grey at the first sign they might actually be asked to do more than just whinge. The would be president does his best to noble "el presidentay" and his supporters sink AIPA’s notice of bargaining proposal on the basis that new Qantas will be kind to pilots.
Unbelievable
Long live the
1661 people vote No to an EBA and their reps fade to grey at the first sign they might actually be asked to do more than just whinge. The would be president does his best to noble "el presidentay" and his supporters sink AIPA’s notice of bargaining proposal on the basis that new Qantas will be kind to pilots.
Unbelievable
Long live the