QF EBA Voted Down
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BTW it's YOU'RE not YOUR.
Maybe when you are President you can put out a nice notice with no spelling mistakes explaining to the members why you voted against a bargaining period. Then explain how, without even the hint or possibility of any industrial pressure, we can get an improvement on the offer that an overwhellming majority have said was not good enough.
Come in Jacko.
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Liger,
Would this be the same fellow who as a Vice President under Holt allowed that abomination called LOA161 to get through.
Now a mate of mine on Com at the time told me the LOA was voted down by the thinking element of Comm and Holt couldn't believe it, turns out he had already signed off on it with Manning.
When Comm finally came to a comprimise,LOA 161A ,the filibusters came out in order to delay.
Guess what ,the original LOA161 which Holt tabled, yes the very one voted down by Comm was slipped into the EBA 7 documents.
Remember that 7 inch thick bundle that was delivered to the membership only mere days prior to the vote. Wouldn't want too much scrutiny now ,would we ,before an EBA vote! When asked about where the information package would be delivered at Comm the reply was always , oh, there is a problem with the printers. What ,did they use Offset Alpine did they.
So here we have a guy who appears comfortable doing the very things he is accusing WoodI of.
The pot calling the kettle black I would say.
Then you get the classic line from these guys, New CEO, new Chief pilot , it's time for a change.
Didn't the new CEO state, "The only difference between me and Geoff you will notice is the accent"
Sounds suspiciously like more of the same old Dixon plan of give 'em nothing and screw 'em into the ground to me.
This whole campaign of Bazza's has the same ring to it that Whitlam's "Time for a change" campaign had. Look what happened under him, song and dance routine to dazzle the proletariat with, but behind the razzle dazzle no real plan ,except to get into power .Once there the company will dictate the way backwards ,I'd say.
Then you have at least 4 guys associated with the "ticket" that are singing the praises of "Team Bazza" who are on the A380. All mighty pleased EBA8 got shot down because they want the 7-8% pay rise they believe the MegaBlunberBus deserves.
I'd ask the question "how are you going to pay for it boys"?
PS didn't you guys castigate WoodI for running a Ticket campaign?
767 pilots prepare as you have in the past for another rogering by the senior boys to pay for their pay rise!
The more things change the more they stay the same!
At least the present guys are standing up to the management bullies,
none of them have management aspirations ,so I would hazard a guess are not comprimised by Management and at least have attempted an EBA that was as fair as it could be to all pilots under the present Industrial climate.
Would this be the same fellow who as a Vice President under Holt allowed that abomination called LOA161 to get through.
Now a mate of mine on Com at the time told me the LOA was voted down by the thinking element of Comm and Holt couldn't believe it, turns out he had already signed off on it with Manning.
When Comm finally came to a comprimise,LOA 161A ,the filibusters came out in order to delay.
Guess what ,the original LOA161 which Holt tabled, yes the very one voted down by Comm was slipped into the EBA 7 documents.
Remember that 7 inch thick bundle that was delivered to the membership only mere days prior to the vote. Wouldn't want too much scrutiny now ,would we ,before an EBA vote! When asked about where the information package would be delivered at Comm the reply was always , oh, there is a problem with the printers. What ,did they use Offset Alpine did they.
So here we have a guy who appears comfortable doing the very things he is accusing WoodI of.
The pot calling the kettle black I would say.
Then you get the classic line from these guys, New CEO, new Chief pilot , it's time for a change.
Didn't the new CEO state, "The only difference between me and Geoff you will notice is the accent"
Sounds suspiciously like more of the same old Dixon plan of give 'em nothing and screw 'em into the ground to me.
This whole campaign of Bazza's has the same ring to it that Whitlam's "Time for a change" campaign had. Look what happened under him, song and dance routine to dazzle the proletariat with, but behind the razzle dazzle no real plan ,except to get into power .Once there the company will dictate the way backwards ,I'd say.
Then you have at least 4 guys associated with the "ticket" that are singing the praises of "Team Bazza" who are on the A380. All mighty pleased EBA8 got shot down because they want the 7-8% pay rise they believe the MegaBlunberBus deserves.
I'd ask the question "how are you going to pay for it boys"?
PS didn't you guys castigate WoodI for running a Ticket campaign?
767 pilots prepare as you have in the past for another rogering by the senior boys to pay for their pay rise!
The more things change the more they stay the same!
At least the present guys are standing up to the management bullies,
none of them have management aspirations ,so I would hazard a guess are not comprimised by Management and at least have attempted an EBA that was as fair as it could be to all pilots under the present Industrial climate.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 5th Oct 2008 at 07:23.
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One of the alternative ticket VP's wannabees distinguished himself recently by open admitting he hadn't read any of the COM emails for the last three years. Now he wants to be a VP?
The other one lives in Melbourne. How the hell is he going to be an effective VP living there?
The other one lives in Melbourne. How the hell is he going to be an effective VP living there?
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Then you have at least 4 guys associated with the "ticket" that are singing the praises of "Team Bazza" who are on the A380. All mighty pleased EBA8 got shot down because they want the 7-8% pay rise they believe the MegaBlunberBus deserves.
This says it all. Maybe we should all take a wage cut to sponsor our heroes.
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Part of the VP's job is filling in for the Pres when he is not available. One of the current VP's used to live in Melbourne and was never able to fulfill that function. I believe he has now moved back to Sydney, and is on the alternative ticket. He will probably do a good job.You cannot be effective living away from the AIPA office. The third guy doesn't even lower himself to read COM emails and is proud of the fact. Great ticket there!
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Qantas chairman slams unions
Qantas Airways chairman Leigh Clifford has reignited the carrier's verbal quarrel with labour unions, accusing them of failing to recognise the pressures impacting on the airline industry.
Speaking to The Australian Financial Review, Mr Clifford also said the company's shift towards offshore aircraft maintenance would not compromise safety.
"This sort of view that somehow or other if a plane is maintained outside of Australia it's not done as well is insulting," Mr Clifford told the newspaper.
He argued that Australians regularly fly on carriers like Emirates Airlines, Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa, which perform maintenance in countries that Qantas is leaning towards.
The airline industry is currently grappling with falling demand and rising fuel costs, and Mr Clifford said that some union officials were not "as alert to the dynamics of the industry as they need to be".
"I think union leadership doesn't seem to have a thorough grasp of the challenges that our employees and the company faces," he said.
Federal secretary of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, Steve Purvinas told the AFR the union was disappointed by Mr Clifford's comments.
This year Qantas has slashed 1,500 jobs, shifted maintenance offshore and campaigned aggressively against unions to keep pay rises to a minimum in a bid to maintain profits as the industry becomes more challenging.
Doesn't sound like Bazz and the boys are going to have an easy time getting +9% for the MegaBus does it.
Qantas Airways chairman Leigh Clifford has reignited the carrier's verbal quarrel with labour unions, accusing them of failing to recognise the pressures impacting on the airline industry.
Speaking to The Australian Financial Review, Mr Clifford also said the company's shift towards offshore aircraft maintenance would not compromise safety.
"This sort of view that somehow or other if a plane is maintained outside of Australia it's not done as well is insulting," Mr Clifford told the newspaper.
He argued that Australians regularly fly on carriers like Emirates Airlines, Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa, which perform maintenance in countries that Qantas is leaning towards.
The airline industry is currently grappling with falling demand and rising fuel costs, and Mr Clifford said that some union officials were not "as alert to the dynamics of the industry as they need to be".
"I think union leadership doesn't seem to have a thorough grasp of the challenges that our employees and the company faces," he said.
Federal secretary of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, Steve Purvinas told the AFR the union was disappointed by Mr Clifford's comments.
This year Qantas has slashed 1,500 jobs, shifted maintenance offshore and campaigned aggressively against unions to keep pay rises to a minimum in a bid to maintain profits as the industry becomes more challenging.
Doesn't sound like Bazz and the boys are going to have an easy time getting +9% for the MegaBus does it.
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Oh dear. I was worried we'd get more of the same over the next few years with the changing of the guards. I was tempted to give them a chance to show us different, but the last couple of releases from Le Chairman has confirmed not much is going to change. A union head kicker who knows how to dig dirt out of the ground. Yep! He's perfect to be the chairman of an airline.
There's nothing wrong with overseas maintainence, and I'm sorry that they are insulted, Mr C, but exactly how long was the last 737-400 offline after it came back from one of those overseas MROs?
I wonder how long before QF management will be calling for no wage increase, or even a drop in pay at an EBA? It's happened in the US, so why not here?
There's nothing wrong with overseas maintainence, and I'm sorry that they are insulted, Mr C, but exactly how long was the last 737-400 offline after it came back from one of those overseas MROs?
I wonder how long before QF management will be calling for no wage increase, or even a drop in pay at an EBA? It's happened in the US, so why not here?
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How much do those other airlines pay for a check?
More than Qantas is willing to pay I'd hazard a guess.
"You get what you bargain for", says Geoff.
Haggle them into the ground then scratch your head wondering why you don't get top shelf.
More than Qantas is willing to pay I'd hazard a guess.
"You get what you bargain for", says Geoff.
Haggle them into the ground then scratch your head wondering why you don't get top shelf.
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I wonder how long before QF management will be calling for no wage increase, or even a drop in pay at an EBA? It's happened in the US, so why not here?
Not for a while yet, mate. Not after pocketing nearly a cool billion last year. They'd need to clock a couple of years with losses and burn up the cash reserves first. By then the economic picture will be alllllll different.
Not for a while yet, mate. Not after pocketing nearly a cool billion last year. They'd need to clock a couple of years with losses and burn up the cash reserves first. By then the economic picture will be alllllll different.
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You recon Wazza.
How about that EBA under Manning ,the one with the pay freeze . I'm fairly certain no loss was posted that year!
Amazing what you can achieve when you can yank the President's strings!
How about that EBA under Manning ,the one with the pay freeze . I'm fairly certain no loss was posted that year!
Amazing what you can achieve when you can yank the President's strings!
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Here we are, six weeks after the EBA was voted down and I am wondering if any of the naysayers are questioning the wisdom of their action.
EBA 7 redundancy provisions-No guarantee of re-employment
EBA 8 Guaranteed re-employment.
EBA 7 Min Guarantee- 151 hours on a reserve line
EBA 8 Min Guarantee- 165 hours reducing to 160 hours after three consecutive bid periods at 165, if required.
How things change in just a few weeks.
Ask any S/O how they voted and most will tell you they voted no.
In related news AIPA COM has to be very careful what payrise it goes after for the A380 lest it starts a revolt from the 767 guys. The following pay rates speak for themselves.
A380 SO (-400 SO plus 3%+3% backpay plus 6% A380 rate rise) compared to B767 FO (3% + 3% backpay)
A380 SO B767 FO
Yr2 $94.94 $105.93
Yr3 $99.96 $110.93
Yr4 $102.88 $113.00
Yr5 $108.12 $117.47
Yr6 $111.10 $120.33
Yr7 $113.86 $122.90
YR8 $119.43 $125.44
YR9 $120.98 $126.85
YR10 $122.67 $128.23
YR11 $124.32 $129.47
YR12 $125.97. $130.88
Yes thats right. A year 12 767 FO would be on 5 bucks an hour more than a year 12 A380 SO.
Solution? A380 SO's on 744 rates and pass the savings on to other ranks and fleets. This cannot be allowed to happen.
EBA 7 redundancy provisions-No guarantee of re-employment
EBA 8 Guaranteed re-employment.
EBA 7 Min Guarantee- 151 hours on a reserve line
EBA 8 Min Guarantee- 165 hours reducing to 160 hours after three consecutive bid periods at 165, if required.
How things change in just a few weeks.
Ask any S/O how they voted and most will tell you they voted no.
In related news AIPA COM has to be very careful what payrise it goes after for the A380 lest it starts a revolt from the 767 guys. The following pay rates speak for themselves.
A380 SO (-400 SO plus 3%+3% backpay plus 6% A380 rate rise) compared to B767 FO (3% + 3% backpay)
A380 SO B767 FO
Yr2 $94.94 $105.93
Yr3 $99.96 $110.93
Yr4 $102.88 $113.00
Yr5 $108.12 $117.47
Yr6 $111.10 $120.33
Yr7 $113.86 $122.90
YR8 $119.43 $125.44
YR9 $120.98 $126.85
YR10 $122.67 $128.23
YR11 $124.32 $129.47
YR12 $125.97. $130.88
Yes thats right. A year 12 767 FO would be on 5 bucks an hour more than a year 12 A380 SO.
Solution? A380 SO's on 744 rates and pass the savings on to other ranks and fleets. This cannot be allowed to happen.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 29th Oct 2008 at 07:39.
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Some types of people are good at manipulating, some at negotiating and others at predicting.
Seems that Woodeye and GD covered off the vision thing and the negotiating bit to get up an EBA based on how they saw the future. But the dopes didn’t pay enough attention to protecting their flanks from the manipulators pulling the rug from under them while they were busy working, did they.
How stupid some people can be.
Hope that the Qantas pilots’ decision to reject their EBA doesn’t turn out to be the biggest folly in aviation since 1989 and rumours that all future EBA's will require flexibility for free are rubbish.
Seems that Woodeye and GD covered off the vision thing and the negotiating bit to get up an EBA based on how they saw the future. But the dopes didn’t pay enough attention to protecting their flanks from the manipulators pulling the rug from under them while they were busy working, did they.
How stupid some people can be.
Hope that the Qantas pilots’ decision to reject their EBA doesn’t turn out to be the biggest folly in aviation since 1989 and rumours that all future EBA's will require flexibility for free are rubbish.
Last edited by Gingerbread; 25th Oct 2008 at 05:16.
Hey Ginger,
My guess is all the blocking will fade as "Madman" Woods is dealt with by his committee. EBA 8 had some great ideas and some not so great ideas. Read the scoreboard, not even close was it. Interim EBA and maybe asking the troops might help. The company has until the 20/1 before the "Blunderbus" is grounded. The problem as always with pilots is lack of ticker. Are you going to jump the fence? Normally the noisy majority are the first to sign. Woodeye's vision is no more than fantasy, he is living in another world, devoid of reality.
Time will tell....
My guess is all the blocking will fade as "Madman" Woods is dealt with by his committee. EBA 8 had some great ideas and some not so great ideas. Read the scoreboard, not even close was it. Interim EBA and maybe asking the troops might help. The company has until the 20/1 before the "Blunderbus" is grounded. The problem as always with pilots is lack of ticker. Are you going to jump the fence? Normally the noisy majority are the first to sign. Woodeye's vision is no more than fantasy, he is living in another world, devoid of reality.
Time will tell....
Nunc est bibendum
I must say that I never fully understood the theory behind 'protecting' S/O pay rates beyond about year 9 pay considering that the overwhelming majority of current F/Os and Captains took promotion to F/O within that time frame. Better to increase the F/O rate given that more people will take advantage of that!
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Hang on 007, I agree that there is a fine line between insanity and brilliance but to suggest woodeye is a madman is a big stretch.
Many wouldn’t agree with your view that his 'vision is no more than fantasy'.
He is where he is, because the pilots know he identified the super surcharge as a f*@# up and also helped save them from the pillaging they would have got had the APA bid got up.
If the manipulators have successfully pulled the rug from under him, expect he will leave it to them to come up with a new plan. Only hope for their sake that they've got one.
But I do agree 007 that time will soon tell if rejecting EBA 8 will be biggest pilot folly since 89.
Many wouldn’t agree with your view that his 'vision is no more than fantasy'.
He is where he is, because the pilots know he identified the super surcharge as a f*@# up and also helped save them from the pillaging they would have got had the APA bid got up.
If the manipulators have successfully pulled the rug from under him, expect he will leave it to them to come up with a new plan. Only hope for their sake that they've got one.
But I do agree 007 that time will soon tell if rejecting EBA 8 will be biggest pilot folly since 89.
Last edited by Gingerbread; 25th Oct 2008 at 21:32.
It is going to be kind of embarrassing when this stuff gets picked up by a right-wing journo in the midst of an economic slump,
Are you suffering a life-threatening illness? Are you so badly off that your mortgages are to be fore-closed as a result of your default? Are you living a hand-to-mouth existence and can't afford new clothes for the kids ot to even send them to school?
Most Australians would kill for your terms and conditions so pulleeeeze get a grip on reality and pull your wingeing whining heads in. The sooner you are exposed the better.
