Air Nelson ALPA pilots to strike
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Either Strike Or Get Off The Can
Hells bells reading this post sure makes a SLF uneasy about you guys "up the front".
I bet your parent company is making more money with these silly half day strikes etc than when you're operating normally.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again - your employer operates on MONOPOLY ROUTES. It must suit them fine to reduce the number of flights and cram all us "customers" into a ****ty 737.
I agree that you should be better paid and obviously there is a pilot shortage - if you don't like what's on offer with Air Nelson etc LEAVE!!
Or alternatively if you want to stay and fight - quit pissing around and STRIKE -but please make it a proper STRIKE.
Reading some of these posts makes me think that some of you actually believe that there is something special in being a "pilot" - there's not (Oh please no more tales of where would I be as SLF when something goes wrong and there wasn't a couple of super heros with big watches and small#### up front) - it's a fecking job like any other job.
You train for it and you do it presumably because that's what you like to do.
If you cant get the T&C's you want either accept what you can get, or go somewhere else - but whatever you do don't go into business - you wouldn't stand a chance.
Indianzz
I bet your parent company is making more money with these silly half day strikes etc than when you're operating normally.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again - your employer operates on MONOPOLY ROUTES. It must suit them fine to reduce the number of flights and cram all us "customers" into a ****ty 737.
I agree that you should be better paid and obviously there is a pilot shortage - if you don't like what's on offer with Air Nelson etc LEAVE!!
Or alternatively if you want to stay and fight - quit pissing around and STRIKE -but please make it a proper STRIKE.
Reading some of these posts makes me think that some of you actually believe that there is something special in being a "pilot" - there's not (Oh please no more tales of where would I be as SLF when something goes wrong and there wasn't a couple of super heros with big watches and small#### up front) - it's a fecking job like any other job.
You train for it and you do it presumably because that's what you like to do.
If you cant get the T&C's you want either accept what you can get, or go somewhere else - but whatever you do don't go into business - you wouldn't stand a chance.
Indianzz
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Dude these people are getting wound up because its there lively hood and its a job that they are very good at and passionate about. And yes when it all goes wrong you want these people up the front with their big watches and small whatevers because they know what needs to be done. I can't begin to think why somebody would post a comment so stupid.
Hope your post is a windup and you're not serious...
Hope your post is a windup and you're not serious...
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I don't usually respond to windups, but couldn't resist this one, it's good!
Hahaha! Yeah I'll remember that when once again all the SLF (and others) put us THIRD, behind only firefighters and nurses in the "most trusted profession" stakes.
Probably does. These strikes are not designed to make companies lose money, they are designed to cause maximum disruption to company infrastructure with minimum disruption to SLF. So you are worried about getting crammed into a ****ty 737? If that is the only thing you can complain about, then I'd say that these strike's aims are being met.
O don't worry about that. They are leaving, even the so-called "lifers". But that is what the cost accountant wants them to do - that will lower his wages bill very nicely, thank you very much. Ah, knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Experience costs money, but the cost accountant doesn't want to pay. So his campaign to drive out the experienced captains appears to be working. As SLF, I'd be more concerned about ensuring the transition to a lower-experienced pilot workforce is a smooth one with acceptable risk - not about getting crammed into a 737.
Um, wasn't there a 24 hour stoppage today? I'm away on a trip and the internet is a bit quiet on it...would you care to define for us please, what constitutes a "proper strike" in your estimation? I'm sure the Air Nelson negotiators could benefit from your pearls of wisdom.
Umm, anyone else aware of any "tales of where I would be as SLF when something goes wrong.....?" Nah, didn't think so. 
BTW, the word is "fcuking".
Why not? Love to hear your reasons, and so would everyone else on here.
Hells bells reading this post sure makes a SLF uneasy about you guys "up the front".
I bet your parent company is making more money with these silly half day strikes etc than when you're operating normally.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again - your employer operates on MONOPOLY ROUTES. It must suit them fine to reduce the number of flights and cram all us "customers" into a ****ty 737.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again - your employer operates on MONOPOLY ROUTES. It must suit them fine to reduce the number of flights and cram all us "customers" into a ****ty 737.
I agree that you should be better paid and obviously there is a pilot shortage - if you don't like what's on offer with Air Nelson etc LEAVE!!
Or alternatively if you want to stay and fight - quit pissing around and STRIKE -but please make it a proper STRIKE.
Reading some of these posts makes me think that some of you actually believe that there is something special in being a "pilot" - there's not (Oh please no more tales of where would I be as SLF when something goes wrong and there wasn't a couple of super heros with big watches and small#### up front) - it's a fecking job like any other job.
BTW, the word is "fcuking".
If you cant get the T&C's you want either accept what you can get, or go somewhere else - but whatever you do don't go into business - you wouldn't stand a chance.
Why not? Love to hear your reasons, and so would everyone else on here.
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SLF eh? I doubt thats what you really are...
Indianzz - wind up or not, your shortsighted puerile dribble reminds me of the BS propaganda once spoken by the IMHO mislabelled "management" of OZ regionals REX and QANTAS Link. (Pilots are a dime a dozen, you guys are lucky to have a job, pay for ratings and even interviews, blah blah blah.)
They are now trying to explain to their boards why their most expensive items of capital expenditure are parked with flights cancelled amid media frenzies. Why? Because many did what you (and their management - sic) suggested and LEFT (Funny, but it turns out Australasian airline pilots are generally very marketable). Buggering training departments and reducing overall experience and safety in the operation. Their so-called management are now very quiet indeed. Oh such strategic vision! Such foresight! Only predicted for how long? Wheres my MBA?
Many of us in Air Nelson in the late 1990's did leave, awake to the reality that such short sighted and selfish management styles would likely remain (as they apparently have). Most of us now drive large jets (often LHS and some CHK & TRN) for many times the pay (not to mention basic adult respect) we were doled out by Air NZ Link.
As for "don't go into business..." as a senior mgt Captain and a partner in a successful non aviation business, my view from watching "airline executives" up close, is that most are little more than con artists whose few skills consist of plagiarising and BSing their way through board meetings, just long enough to screw the balance sheet for their bonus. One or two I've met are also failed would be pilots...
But I admit IMHO they often do display a rare attribute; levels of ethics, morals or concern for those who generate their income below most carbon based life forms. IME most have little interest in the viability of "their" airline or the futures of its employees, and certainly no special abilities worth paying for. The terms used car salesman OR realtor come to mind...
As for the size of your "implication" lets see you walk into an Air Nelson watering hole and assert your insightful and original opinions. After your remains are fished out of Whakatu estuary the pathologist can tell us how tiny your microscopic "appendage" really is...
They are now trying to explain to their boards why their most expensive items of capital expenditure are parked with flights cancelled amid media frenzies. Why? Because many did what you (and their management - sic) suggested and LEFT (Funny, but it turns out Australasian airline pilots are generally very marketable). Buggering training departments and reducing overall experience and safety in the operation. Their so-called management are now very quiet indeed.
Oh such strategic vision! Such foresight! Only predicted for how long? Wheres my MBA? Many of us in Air Nelson in the late 1990's did leave, awake to the reality that such short sighted and selfish management styles would likely remain (as they apparently have). Most of us now drive large jets (often LHS and some CHK & TRN) for many times the pay (not to mention basic adult respect) we were doled out by Air NZ Link.
As for "don't go into business..." as a senior mgt Captain and a partner in a successful non aviation business, my view from watching "airline executives" up close, is that most are little more than con artists whose few skills consist of plagiarising and BSing their way through board meetings, just long enough to screw the balance sheet for their bonus. One or two I've met are also failed would be pilots...
But I admit IMHO they often do display a rare attribute; levels of ethics, morals or concern for those who generate their income below most carbon based life forms. IME most have little interest in the viability of "their" airline or the futures of its employees, and certainly no special abilities worth paying for. The terms used car salesman OR realtor come to mind...
As for the size of your "implication" lets see you walk into an Air Nelson watering hole and assert your insightful and original opinions. After your remains are fished out of Whakatu estuary the pathologist can tell us how tiny your microscopic "appendage" really is...
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..I got my big watch round the back of the fish market in HongKong..it was gold but I bumped it the other day doing a preflight and now you can see the silver underneath
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This seems appropriate given the current environment...
In my best Jack Nicholson voice...
Captain....
Captain: "You want answers?"
Chief Pilot: "I think we are entitled"
Captain: "You want answers!"
Chief Pilot: "I want the truth!"
Captain: "You can't handle the truth!!!" "We live in a world
that requires revenue. That revenue must be flown by people
with elite skills. Who's going to do it? You, Mr CEO? You
Mr. Finance? You, Ms. Human Resources? We have a
greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You scoff at
the line pilots and you curse our mediocre incentives. You have
that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know.
And my very existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to
you, drives REVENUE! You don't want to know the truth
because deep down in places you don't talk about at staff
meetings, you want me in that airplane. You NEED me in that airplane!!
We use words like working radar, good weather, on time departures,
airworthiness, upgrades, commuting, another round, medium-rare,
on-the-rocks, Cohiba. We use these words as the backbone of all
Professional Aviation. You use them as a punch line!
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to
people who rise and sleep under the very blanket of service I provide
and then question the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you
just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you
pick up a flight bag. Either way, I don't give a damm what you think
you're entitled to!"
Chief Pilot: "Did you expense the lap dancers?"
Captain: "I did the job I was hired to do."
Chief Pilot: "Did you expense the lap dancers?!"
Captain: "You're goddamn right I did!
In my best Jack Nicholson voice...
Captain....
Captain: "You want answers?"
Chief Pilot: "I think we are entitled"
Captain: "You want answers!"
Chief Pilot: "I want the truth!"
Captain: "You can't handle the truth!!!" "We live in a world
that requires revenue. That revenue must be flown by people
with elite skills. Who's going to do it? You, Mr CEO? You
Mr. Finance? You, Ms. Human Resources? We have a
greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You scoff at
the line pilots and you curse our mediocre incentives. You have
that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know.
And my very existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to
you, drives REVENUE! You don't want to know the truth
because deep down in places you don't talk about at staff
meetings, you want me in that airplane. You NEED me in that airplane!!
We use words like working radar, good weather, on time departures,
airworthiness, upgrades, commuting, another round, medium-rare,
on-the-rocks, Cohiba. We use these words as the backbone of all
Professional Aviation. You use them as a punch line!
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to
people who rise and sleep under the very blanket of service I provide
and then question the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you
just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you
pick up a flight bag. Either way, I don't give a damm what you think
you're entitled to!"
Chief Pilot: "Did you expense the lap dancers?"
Captain: "I did the job I was hired to do."
Chief Pilot: "Did you expense the lap dancers?!"
Captain: "You're goddamn right I did!
Yeah baby
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Quote........"now Bongo....thats the language people want to hear...."Fair and Equitable".....good choice of words cock!!"
PB
My apologies for making a spelling mistake. Unlike you I am not perfect but I am so glad you are here to point this out. I have edited my post just for you......COCK!!
Indianzz
Are you a Black Knight amounst sirs?
A full on strike is exactly what Air Nsn wants as it then becomes a war of attrition and they have deep pockets to dip into against pilots who will not be getting paid. Thus the long term approach.
Quote-"but whatever you do don't go into business - you wouldn't stand a chance."
Well I reckon running a business is way easier than being a pilot. If a business starts to go down all you do is get your lawyer to protect your assets then walk away leaving everyone else to suffer the consquences of your incompetence. If an aircraft goes down the pilots burn with everyone else.
Businesses can trot off to the third world and exploit child labour to produce inferior products knowing that a percentage of them will fail and need to be replaced. But the economics of those 12 year olds and their fifty cents a day salaries still means fat returns for corporate bodies. The economics of just one aircraft and its crew failing means no returns just bodies.
If you do not believe me then why don't you go show those pilots how to fly whilst they run your business. First person to die losses!!!!
PB
My apologies for making a spelling mistake. Unlike you I am not perfect but I am so glad you are here to point this out. I have edited my post just for you......COCK!!
Indianzz
Are you a Black Knight amounst sirs?
A full on strike is exactly what Air Nsn wants as it then becomes a war of attrition and they have deep pockets to dip into against pilots who will not be getting paid. Thus the long term approach.
Quote-"but whatever you do don't go into business - you wouldn't stand a chance."
Well I reckon running a business is way easier than being a pilot. If a business starts to go down all you do is get your lawyer to protect your assets then walk away leaving everyone else to suffer the consquences of your incompetence. If an aircraft goes down the pilots burn with everyone else.
Businesses can trot off to the third world and exploit child labour to produce inferior products knowing that a percentage of them will fail and need to be replaced. But the economics of those 12 year olds and their fifty cents a day salaries still means fat returns for corporate bodies. The economics of just one aircraft and its crew failing means no returns just bodies.
If you do not believe me then why don't you go show those pilots how to fly whilst they run your business. First person to die losses!!!!
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Bongo, I think PB was using the word "cock" in a complimentary sense 
PB, sorry to hear of the problems at USAir/America West. I think the guys who voted to get out have failed to see the big picture - as is invariably the case when these things happen.
Anyone else know what went on with the Air Nelson strike on Friday? Did it go ahead? Any comments?
PB, sorry to hear of the problems at USAir/America West. I think the guys who voted to get out have failed to see the big picture - as is invariably the case when these things happen.
Anyone else know what went on with the Air Nelson strike on Friday? Did it go ahead? Any comments?
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Reading some of these posts makes me think that some of you actually believe that there is something special in being a "pilot" - there's not
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Firstly my sincere apologies to those of you offended by my "big watch small whatzit" reference. I actually saw it as a joke in one of the other forums here - but it was indeed inappropriate.
As paying customers we are referred to in the industry as SLF but no offence taken.
Doesn't detract from my key point though.
If you guys are so smart - how come you're so poorly paid??
And remoak as one of the many that actually pay to fly I do have a right to be here and express an opinion - after all the purpose of the strike - such as it is - is to disrupt my schedule which in some strange way you believe will cause pressure on the company to agree to your demands - even though your actions are actually improving profitability!!
If me and a zillion other SLF didn't exist then there would be a lot less pilots in the world.
My last posting on the subject (I've got a life too!) but to clarify;
I dont hate pilots - I have the utmost respect for their skills - just as I have for many other professions.
I'm not in anyway associated with any aviation company or airline etc my interest here stems simply by having my self employed business actvities disrupted by these "clayton" strikes.
In another life I did have a pilots licence hence my general interest in these forums.
Finally Bongo Bus Driver most aviation companies that I have seen go bust were owned or managed by qualified pilots. Come to think of it some of the major airline accidents were flown by qualified pilots as well.....so what is your point.
Happy landings
Indianzz
As paying customers we are referred to in the industry as SLF but no offence taken.
Doesn't detract from my key point though.
If you guys are so smart - how come you're so poorly paid??
And remoak as one of the many that actually pay to fly I do have a right to be here and express an opinion - after all the purpose of the strike - such as it is - is to disrupt my schedule which in some strange way you believe will cause pressure on the company to agree to your demands - even though your actions are actually improving profitability!!
If me and a zillion other SLF didn't exist then there would be a lot less pilots in the world.
My last posting on the subject (I've got a life too!) but to clarify;
I dont hate pilots - I have the utmost respect for their skills - just as I have for many other professions.
I'm not in anyway associated with any aviation company or airline etc my interest here stems simply by having my self employed business actvities disrupted by these "clayton" strikes.
In another life I did have a pilots licence hence my general interest in these forums.
Finally Bongo Bus Driver most aviation companies that I have seen go bust were owned or managed by qualified pilots. Come to think of it some of the major airline accidents were flown by qualified pilots as well.....so what is your point.
Happy landings
Indianzz
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Firstly my sincere apologies to those of you offended by my "big watch small whatzit" reference. I actually saw it as a joke in one of the other forums here - but it was indeed inappropriate.
As paying customers we are referred to in the industry as SLF but no offence taken.
just like we can poke fun at you here in like fashion. The operative word is "fun"
If you guys are so smart - how come you're so poorly paid??
is to disrupt my schedule which in some strange way you believe will cause pressure on the company to agree to your demands - even though your actions are actually improving profitability!!
Once again, it is not about "causing pressure on a company to accede to one's demands" (hmmm, "the company" I think you may have just given yourself away)
it is to show that when the pilots (or engineers for that matter) are alienated by a cost accountant then this is what will happen. As for improving profitability, well tell that to pilots who can make profitability go down the toilet by flying at lower than optimum altitudes and higher power settings - which I have no doubt will be happening. Tell it to pilots who are not accepting aircraft because there are too many maintenance writeups still outstanding because there are no engineers left to rectify them. You see, as you know, they, too have left/are leaving. They went through exactly the same thing the pilots are going through now. And here at mainline AirNZ there is about to be a massive attack on our jobs a la the BA scandal that is in progress now (see "Reporting Points" for the story there). When the cost accountant gets his next set of fuel bills he may blanch momentarily, but not that he will care, of course. It will take a while for it to sink in.
It always does with these people. Hence the strike action.
If me and a zillion other SLF didn't exist then there would be a lot less pilots in the world.
My last posting on the subject (I've got a life too!)
you know we're harmless.
Finally Bongo Bus Driver most aviation companies that I have seen go bust were owned or managed by qualified pilots. Come to think of it some of the major airline accidents were flown by qualified pilots as well.....so what is your point.
But you should keep trying - oh why don't you complain to Air New Zealand if you're so worked up about it - as well as bitching on here---you would gain some measure of respect, its what we have been doing for years (well, through the courts mainly)
Best of luck.
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Deadhead
I know I said I wouldn't be back on this topic but your response is constructive and (almost) balanced and I have appreciated our exchanges here.
I agree a sense of humour should be maintained in most circumstances but it is easy to be misunderstood in forums such as this.
You are correct as regards the pay - for the most part I'm in agreement with you (I don't have all the details) - my argument is the course of action being followed, which I don't believe will achieve your remuneration objectives.
"The Company" is simply a turn of pharse - I am are harsh critic of Air NZ and have made my views known to Mr Fyfe in writing on a number of occassions. Where ever possible internationally I fly on other carriers as a way of voting with my feet - domestically, regionally I have no choice, which is why I think the strike action is ineffective - pilots are simply cutting their own miserable remuneration - they don't understand (and I've said this before) "the company" doesn't give a monkey's about the paying pax on regional routes - we get the short end of the (broom)stick whether Air Nelson is flying or not.
I'm sure you would miss us SLF if we we not around!!
As regards Bongo Bus Driver's post as I have previously noted I find it tiresome and POINTLESS in pilots reciting the "without us you die" mantra.
Finally with the cost of fuel so high (and likely to increase not decrease) we are entering a completely different operating environment (commercially) and I'm sure that this will lead to a major realignment / restructuring within the aviation / airline industry worldwide - the current model cannot be sustained - it is based on a much lower input costs.
Clearly the answer is not to cut the wages of pilots (unless pilots allow this of course) but the reality is fast approaching that soon less and less people will be able to afford to fly - and that must concern both pilots and management / shareholders.
Again thanks for your comments - I have appreciated them
Fly safe
Indianzz
I agree a sense of humour should be maintained in most circumstances but it is easy to be misunderstood in forums such as this.
You are correct as regards the pay - for the most part I'm in agreement with you (I don't have all the details) - my argument is the course of action being followed, which I don't believe will achieve your remuneration objectives.
"The Company" is simply a turn of pharse - I am are harsh critic of Air NZ and have made my views known to Mr Fyfe in writing on a number of occassions. Where ever possible internationally I fly on other carriers as a way of voting with my feet - domestically, regionally I have no choice, which is why I think the strike action is ineffective - pilots are simply cutting their own miserable remuneration - they don't understand (and I've said this before) "the company" doesn't give a monkey's about the paying pax on regional routes - we get the short end of the (broom)stick whether Air Nelson is flying or not.
I'm sure you would miss us SLF if we we not around!!
As regards Bongo Bus Driver's post as I have previously noted I find it tiresome and POINTLESS in pilots reciting the "without us you die" mantra.
Finally with the cost of fuel so high (and likely to increase not decrease) we are entering a completely different operating environment (commercially) and I'm sure that this will lead to a major realignment / restructuring within the aviation / airline industry worldwide - the current model cannot be sustained - it is based on a much lower input costs.
Clearly the answer is not to cut the wages of pilots (unless pilots allow this of course) but the reality is fast approaching that soon less and less people will be able to afford to fly - and that must concern both pilots and management / shareholders.
Again thanks for your comments - I have appreciated them
Fly safe
Indianzz
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Indianzz
I will expand on my point if you cannot understand it.
You made the comment that pilots should not go into business because they would not stand a chance. I then drew some comparisions between flying and business.
Firstly a business can put protections in place to limit the liability on the directors/owners/shareholders in the event that the business fails. I use the example of a property developer who goes bust owning various contractors vast sums of money. The property developer tends to keep their mansion in Remuera whilst the poor old builders, electricians and plumbers who are left out of pocket struggling to pay the mortage.
However when a pilot crashes having made poor descisions they suffer the same consequences as those SLF who rely on them to make the right descisions. Unlike the property developer who can run away.
You write
"Come to think of it some of the major airline accidents were flown by qualified pilots as well.....so what is your point."
You are correct aircraft do crash and it is usually a result of human error. If you were to study these crashes (and believe me we do) there is a high degree of unprofessional behavior such as non compliance to proceedures.
But this is not just limited to pilots. Engineers and management are also to blame. Rules and proceedures are there to protect everyone but it takes a professional attitude to follow them.
So why does Air NZ not have very many crashes? Because my friend they employ professionals who understand the environment they operate in and constantly strive to manage its risks.
My point. Professionals cost money but like Air NZ you want the best but do not want to pay for it. You want pilots who will make the right decisions and not run away when things get tough.
From one of your previous posts
"I'm in no way (and I'm not backpedalling Deadhead!) arguing against your techinal professionalism - indeed as SLF I never want to have to even think about the expertise or otherwise of the person doing the flying - on reputable airlines - it should be a given."
But then you state
"Reading some of these posts makes me think that some of you actually believe that there is something special in being a "pilot" - there's not (Oh please no more tales of where would I be as SLF when something goes wrong and there wasn't a couple of super heros with big watches and small#### up front) - it's a fecking job like any other job."
Like the Air Nsn management you expect skill and expertise from their staff but do not want to acknowledge it and more to the point pay for it.
This is exactly the attitude that all staff at Air Nz are fighting. Being a pilot holds a greater responsibility than that of most other professions thus it requiries high range of skills. Attaining these skills come at a great cost to the pilot. It is only fair that they are compensated fairly for these. We are not talking about Doctors wanting 40% over three years here. They are asking for CPI increases and an equalisation of meal allowances.
Here is another little gem of yours.
"Also I'm not looking for a "cheap" deal. OPEC charge what they can for oil - what the market will and does pay - if Air NZ keep dropping fares in the face of increasing fuel costs and seek to make up the difference by screwing air crew - that's not my problem - its yours."
Interesting how JH shares your view. He says that the public will not wear the rising cost of fuel and expects his staff to. Well here's a news flash. They wont and who would given that everyone is suffering the rising cost of living? Therefore it is your problem cos you need air travel to conduct your business and there is only one option in this country.
I will expand on my point if you cannot understand it.
You made the comment that pilots should not go into business because they would not stand a chance. I then drew some comparisions between flying and business.
Firstly a business can put protections in place to limit the liability on the directors/owners/shareholders in the event that the business fails. I use the example of a property developer who goes bust owning various contractors vast sums of money. The property developer tends to keep their mansion in Remuera whilst the poor old builders, electricians and plumbers who are left out of pocket struggling to pay the mortage.
However when a pilot crashes having made poor descisions they suffer the same consequences as those SLF who rely on them to make the right descisions. Unlike the property developer who can run away.
You write
"Come to think of it some of the major airline accidents were flown by qualified pilots as well.....so what is your point."
You are correct aircraft do crash and it is usually a result of human error. If you were to study these crashes (and believe me we do) there is a high degree of unprofessional behavior such as non compliance to proceedures.
But this is not just limited to pilots. Engineers and management are also to blame. Rules and proceedures are there to protect everyone but it takes a professional attitude to follow them.
So why does Air NZ not have very many crashes? Because my friend they employ professionals who understand the environment they operate in and constantly strive to manage its risks.
My point. Professionals cost money but like Air NZ you want the best but do not want to pay for it. You want pilots who will make the right decisions and not run away when things get tough.
From one of your previous posts
"I'm in no way (and I'm not backpedalling Deadhead!) arguing against your techinal professionalism - indeed as SLF I never want to have to even think about the expertise or otherwise of the person doing the flying - on reputable airlines - it should be a given."
But then you state
"Reading some of these posts makes me think that some of you actually believe that there is something special in being a "pilot" - there's not (Oh please no more tales of where would I be as SLF when something goes wrong and there wasn't a couple of super heros with big watches and small#### up front) - it's a fecking job like any other job."
Like the Air Nsn management you expect skill and expertise from their staff but do not want to acknowledge it and more to the point pay for it.
This is exactly the attitude that all staff at Air Nz are fighting. Being a pilot holds a greater responsibility than that of most other professions thus it requiries high range of skills. Attaining these skills come at a great cost to the pilot. It is only fair that they are compensated fairly for these. We are not talking about Doctors wanting 40% over three years here. They are asking for CPI increases and an equalisation of meal allowances.
Here is another little gem of yours.
"Also I'm not looking for a "cheap" deal. OPEC charge what they can for oil - what the market will and does pay - if Air NZ keep dropping fares in the face of increasing fuel costs and seek to make up the difference by screwing air crew - that's not my problem - its yours."
Interesting how JH shares your view. He says that the public will not wear the rising cost of fuel and expects his staff to. Well here's a news flash. They wont and who would given that everyone is suffering the rising cost of living? Therefore it is your problem cos you need air travel to conduct your business and there is only one option in this country.
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And remoak as one of the many that actually pay to fly I do have a right to be here and express an opinion
after all the purpose of the strike - such as it is - is to disrupt my schedule which in some strange way you believe will cause pressure on the company to agree to your demands
If me and a zillion other SLF didn't exist then there would be a lot less pilots in the world.
Join Date: May 2005
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"As regards Bongo Bus Driver's post as I have previously noted I find it tiresome and POINTLESS in pilots reciting the "without us you die" mantra"
Check out Indianzz's quote above. Isn't he saying the same thing from the other perpective below?
"If me and a zillion other SLF didn't exist then there would be a lot less pilots in the world."
So Indianzz you are sick of pilots pointing out their worth to passengers but are more than ready to use the reverse arguement to point out passengers worth to pilots. This is the same twisted logic Air Nsn is using to stalemate these negotiations.
Check out Indianzz's quote above. Isn't he saying the same thing from the other perpective below?
"If me and a zillion other SLF didn't exist then there would be a lot less pilots in the world."
So Indianzz you are sick of pilots pointing out their worth to passengers but are more than ready to use the reverse arguement to point out passengers worth to pilots. This is the same twisted logic Air Nsn is using to stalemate these negotiations.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Quote..."Finally Bongo Bus Driver most aviation companies that I have seen go bust were owned or managed by qualified pilots. Come to think of it some of the major airline accidents were flown by qualified pilots as well.....so what is your point"
Name them???...qualified pilots...wow!!!...qualify, what is a qualified pilot....in fact qualify for me what is a pruedent test for airline mgt...not all rugby players make good or great coaches....not all(most if not all) pilots make good airline owners or managers....speculation at best....being a pilot and running an airline...my queston....What is your point?
Name several "Major" Airlines(your words) that were owned and managed by pilots....and before you answer look up the meaning of "Major" airlines before you answer...Cali,Delta????..think hard before you answer this one....
Name them???...qualified pilots...wow!!!...qualify, what is a qualified pilot....in fact qualify for me what is a pruedent test for airline mgt...not all rugby players make good or great coaches....not all(most if not all) pilots make good airline owners or managers....speculation at best....being a pilot and running an airline...my queston....What is your point?
Name several "Major" Airlines(your words) that were owned and managed by pilots....and before you answer look up the meaning of "Major" airlines before you answer...Cali,Delta????..think hard before you answer this one....
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Hey Indianzz!
Been reading your dribble for a couple of weeks now.
I cant help but get the feeling you came home from work early one day, only to find a pilot haunched over your wife, while talking to your mother on the phone.
Bugger off , this site is for pilots, not insurance salesman!!!
Been reading your dribble for a couple of weeks now.
I cant help but get the feeling you came home from work early one day, only to find a pilot haunched over your wife, while talking to your mother on the phone.
Bugger off , this site is for pilots, not insurance salesman!!!
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Are we really asking for that much or anything that we that we dont think we are worth. Lets put in perspective.I learnt today that the loaders at aa start on $18.50 hour. If you have a forkhoist licence you start on $21.00 hour. Lets say conservatively that they do a 40h week. It puts them on $43,680 a year. Plus the opportunity to earn double time over 8 hours a day. Plus staff travel. Go figure..........