Air Nelson ALPA pilots to strike
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Small note about Ansett NZ salaries...PP is correct in that we were never paid more than Air NZ pilots, but in the early days, we were covered by a National Award (remember those) that covered pilots of both Air NZ and Ansett NZ. There were never huge numbers of Australian pilots in Ansett NZ...another myth. There were a few who came over on secondment at startup and to assist with the 146 introduction, but most of the "Australians" were ex-pat kiwis who took the opportunity of a job here to come home.
Also, Ansett NZ pilots had to threaten, or actually strike to get every contract we negotiated...unfortunately we were "blessed" with the type of management that saw this as part of the normal bargaining process...a bit like some of the current Air NZ group managers...."dinosaur" springs to mind.
Whilst I have been criticised here as carrying "baggage" about the whole Ansett thing, perhaps I am, but it certainly hasn't stopped me getting on with my life. I have earned more since Ansett NZ went belly-up than I did in the 13 years I was there, but I still have fond memories of the people I worked with, and I hope them of me. Sure, some lessons were learned industrially and we got some VERY bad advice, but I don't think there are too many regrets. Perhaps the whole thing just sped up an inevitable process.
To the Air Nelson guys...don't let some of the comments here get you down. Your's is a totally different situation. Your company is making a profit (as most monopolies do) and the battle seems more about management ego than what is right or just.
Unity is always a strength. Good luck.
Also, Ansett NZ pilots had to threaten, or actually strike to get every contract we negotiated...unfortunately we were "blessed" with the type of management that saw this as part of the normal bargaining process...a bit like some of the current Air NZ group managers...."dinosaur" springs to mind.
Whilst I have been criticised here as carrying "baggage" about the whole Ansett thing, perhaps I am, but it certainly hasn't stopped me getting on with my life. I have earned more since Ansett NZ went belly-up than I did in the 13 years I was there, but I still have fond memories of the people I worked with, and I hope them of me. Sure, some lessons were learned industrially and we got some VERY bad advice, but I don't think there are too many regrets. Perhaps the whole thing just sped up an inevitable process.
To the Air Nelson guys...don't let some of the comments here get you down. Your's is a totally different situation. Your company is making a profit (as most monopolies do) and the battle seems more about management ego than what is right or just.
Unity is always a strength. Good luck.
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..there is noone being naive on this thread (condescending perhaps)..Kaikoura is looking for a CPL to do Scenics, and a CCat to train, Wanganui has no CCat and guys waiting to train, there are several ads in every Av Mag out..including for a Citation Mustang pilot and I was talking to an Eag cappy yesterday who reckons they will struggle to crew their latest aircraft. PacBlue are in the same boat with their next aircraft yet entry level FOs are on average getting payed at or below the (govt stated) median wage.
What is so unrealistic about wanting to get payed a decent wage to be a pilot..just being able to start paying off training debts would be nice, especially when there are serious pilot shortages around!
What is so unrealistic about wanting to get payed a decent wage to be a pilot..just being able to start paying off training debts would be nice, especially when there are serious pilot shortages around!
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..not to you buddy since you seem to want to rehash history and cant keep on the topic which is AirNSN and their strike which has precious little to do with Ansett NZ..in fact I dont think theyre after money, just more guaranteed weekends off..I could be wrong but I support them!
Oh and yes..there is a shortage of CPLs..just compare the numbers of training pilots now to those ten years ago (and don't include those in this country on ab initio schemes for overseas airlines)
Oh and yes..there is a shortage of CPLs..just compare the numbers of training pilots now to those ten years ago (and don't include those in this country on ab initio schemes for overseas airlines)
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You crack me up, mattyj. You don't know why the Air Nelson pilots are striking, but you support them anyway, presumably just because they are pilots and can therefore do no wrong (solidarity, brother!). You apparently can't understand the link between industrial action in one airline, and the history of industrial actions in other airlines. You are truly raising ignorance to the level of an art form.
You say that there is a shortage of CPLs... well, all the CPLs I know are all desperately trying to get into the "airlines", but not many seem to be getting the gig... are you working for an airline yet? Thought not! So I will stand by my original assertion...
You say that there is a shortage of CPLs... well, all the CPLs I know are all desperately trying to get into the "airlines", but not many seem to be getting the gig... are you working for an airline yet? Thought not! So I will stand by my original assertion...
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Right, and if they are successful at AirNSN it might just drag up terms and conditions for some of the rest of us around the industry. I never had much time for ALPA before but at least they believe in the value of pilot qualifications!
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I think everyone needs to be reminded that we are not asking for much at Air NSN. CPI increase over 3 years, a slight improvement to our weekends off i.e 6 more per year, with early finish on Friday, late start Monday. An increase in meal allowances to reflect increased food costs.
Management think that we are being outrageous in our claims, but Air NZ is happy to pay close to twice as much in meal and overnight allowances to other pilot and F/A groups, plus give them 2 more days off per month plus incentive pay. Why is it different for us, do we eat less? Do we not have families etc.
Our pay at Air NSN for the Q300 is reflective of standard Air NZ rates based on A/C type/weight. And we negotiated that last time around (what a battle that was!) What we want now is pretty simple I would of thought.
Can someone please explain to me why in one airline (Air NZ) management is happy to pay one pilot group $60 for a dinner allowance, and another only $22. Why one group gets 10 days off per month and another 8, one group gets incentive pay the other not (even when they regularly fly 80+ hours per month).
This is what we are striking for, not huge pay increases, but some parity in other areas, that the other pilot groups all ready have.
As an Air NSN pilot, I believe JH is making a HUGE mistake that will come back to haunt him.
Latest MEMO form JH
All expenses resulting from strike action to be passed on to the ALPA pilots, as he believes we are striking illegally.
One thing I can say is JH will not win this one, what he doesn't realise is that we remember his tactics from last time and we pretty much just laugh at all his MEMO's.
CH
Management think that we are being outrageous in our claims, but Air NZ is happy to pay close to twice as much in meal and overnight allowances to other pilot and F/A groups, plus give them 2 more days off per month plus incentive pay. Why is it different for us, do we eat less? Do we not have families etc.
Our pay at Air NSN for the Q300 is reflective of standard Air NZ rates based on A/C type/weight. And we negotiated that last time around (what a battle that was!) What we want now is pretty simple I would of thought.
Can someone please explain to me why in one airline (Air NZ) management is happy to pay one pilot group $60 for a dinner allowance, and another only $22. Why one group gets 10 days off per month and another 8, one group gets incentive pay the other not (even when they regularly fly 80+ hours per month).
This is what we are striking for, not huge pay increases, but some parity in other areas, that the other pilot groups all ready have.
As an Air NSN pilot, I believe JH is making a HUGE mistake that will come back to haunt him.
Latest MEMO form JH
All expenses resulting from strike action to be passed on to the ALPA pilots, as he believes we are striking illegally.
One thing I can say is JH will not win this one, what he doesn't realise is that we remember his tactics from last time and we pretty much just laugh at all his MEMO's.
CH
Charlie Horse,
I am not saying you're not unreasonable in your claim - it's just not a good comparison to relate to Air NZ mainline T&C's...it's a case in point though.
I am not saying you're not unreasonable in your claim - it's just not a good comparison to relate to Air NZ mainline T&C's...it's a case in point though.
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It's a great comparison. Air NZ want to have their cake and eat it too. When the turbo props are buzzing in and out of all the regional towns in NZ they enjoy having their brand visible on the tail yet when it comes to T&C , meal allowences etc they enjoy reminding crew that we are four completely seperate companies.
Why not have the same meal allowences paid to a dash crew as a jet crew? I'm pretty sure I eat the same amount now as when I was flying a dash.....it's just that it seems to stay with me longer.
Why not have the same meal allowences paid to a dash crew as a jet crew? I'm pretty sure I eat the same amount now as when I was flying a dash.....it's just that it seems to stay with me longer.
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Question:Why the different meal allowances and days off?
Answer: So when JH returns a higher profit to RF he gets a big pat on the back and probably a fat bonus all at the expense of his staff.
JH needs to be taught that he cannot achieve his targets without the support of his staff.
Answer: So when JH returns a higher profit to RF he gets a big pat on the back and probably a fat bonus all at the expense of his staff.
JH needs to be taught that he cannot achieve his targets without the support of his staff.
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Heard a rumour that AirNSN pilots are backing off the "work to rule" action... I don't know the details but the work to rule action is more effective than pre-planned strikes.
Does this mean they are going to concentrate on friday strikes in lieu of work to rule action
S2K
Does this mean they are going to concentrate on friday strikes in lieu of work to rule action
S2K
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Just to qualify your comments on 737 pay Ironman, a first year pilot earns just over $70k basic pay. The incentive pay is the thing that brings the cash up to the the figure you are talking about. By my calculations a pilot would have to do 86hrs to get to $100k, that's a pretty busy roster for a 737 driver. There is always going to a be a disparity between turboprop and jet drivers, I was a Mt Cook ALPA negotiator and ended up leaving after coming to the gutting realisation that Air NZ will never let turboprop T's & C's get anywhere near the Air NZ CEA. I joined Mt Cook with intentions of becoming a "lifer" but I firmly believe they (management) convinced me otherwise. Interestingly, nearly all of the other negotiators from the team I was in have since left Mt Cook as well. 
SGP
SGP
Last edited by shallow gene pool; 15th Apr 2008 at 01:46.
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No Sqwark they are not backing off the work to rule as more notices have been issued. OTP is starting to suffer I assume because air nsn cannot staff flights due to lack of pilots or more to the point an abundance of demoralised pilots no longer going the extra mile.
I do not know what else they have up their sleeve but this is not going away in a hurry.
The feds and individuals have rumoured to have agreed on their CEAs though and one can only imagine what it says...........
I do not know what else they have up their sleeve but this is not going away in a hurry.
The feds and individuals have rumoured to have agreed on their CEAs though and one can only imagine what it says...........
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quote deadhead"....The pilots are not demoralised; they just don't give a flying fcuk about the cost accountant's lies anymore"
deadhead,spot on mate...spot on.....
been there,done that....and currently back at it.....for the last 2+ yrs.....
"their" negotiating team sounds as if they have the pilots completely behind them....and being demoralised,doesnt even come into the picture....
YOU GET WHAT YOU NEGOTIATE!!....
deadhead,spot on mate...spot on.....
been there,done that....and currently back at it.....for the last 2+ yrs.....
"their" negotiating team sounds as if they have the pilots completely behind them....and being demoralised,doesnt even come into the picture....
YOU GET WHAT YOU NEGOTIATE!!....
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Demoralised is possibly the wrong word. The pilots are definitely unmotivated to go the extra mile for the company as they have on countless occasions before. They are however very motivated to continue industrial action in pursuit of a fair deal.
Last edited by Bongo Bus Driver; 19th Apr 2008 at 04:25.
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BONGO ..QUOTE"They are however very motivated to continue industrial action in pursuit of a far deal."
....now Bongo....thats the language people want to hear...."Fair and Equitable".....good choice of words cock!!
....now Bongo....thats the language people want to hear...."Fair and Equitable".....good choice of words cock!!
Last edited by pakeha-boy; 18th Apr 2008 at 14:25.