Air Nelson ALPA pilots to strike
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Seriously
You guys crack me up - legends in your own lunch box. Its very simple realy. Technology has advanced to the piont where airlines can teach a monkey to fly most of the metal beasts discussed on this forum and in this case the Q300. Why you all feel so important is beyond me. How about enjoying the fantastic lesiure activity you so patheticallly call a job and get on with life before these stupid antics ruin the party. By the way I am at the party but a little more realistic about it!
MT
MT
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remoak..
the endgame was not the lock out, that was a bit of folly by some deluded individuals along the way. The final outcome was detemined by some greedy high profile NZ and Australian "businessmen" who failed to provide the working capital for the pefectly servicable airline they bought.
Nevertheless. Thank you for your words of wisdom from places elsewhere. The crew at Air Nelson will no doubt consider your somewhat removed views from the other side of the world. Not much of which has any bearing on the fight they have on their hands.
the endgame was not the lock out, that was a bit of folly by some deluded individuals along the way. The final outcome was detemined by some greedy high profile NZ and Australian "businessmen" who failed to provide the working capital for the pefectly servicable airline they bought.
Nevertheless. Thank you for your words of wisdom from places elsewhere. The crew at Air Nelson will no doubt consider your somewhat removed views from the other side of the world. Not much of which has any bearing on the fight they have on their hands.
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Thats a pretty good windup Myturn....
BTW the Q300 doesn't have Autoland, so you might find it harder to teach said monkey to fly it or this case land it, in a semi reusable state..
BTW the Q300 doesn't have Autoland, so you might find it harder to teach said monkey to fly it or this case land it, in a semi reusable state..
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Quotw"""Remoak, I don't believe that money is the main issue. It is one of a number of issues. Many are just life style choices, which the company who are supposed to be about supporting Air New Zealanders as we are called"
kiwilad....your right...and I,m in my 30th year of flying for a living,(in kiwi and overseas)and I have yet been unable to get a lifestyle with money,or vice versa..... the closest Ive been able to get is now....working overseas and commuting back and forth to kiwi....gives me money to support my lifesyle in kiwi.....not everyones cuppa,but my choice...
Remoak...no worries mate...water off a ducks back....after these jokers have taken a few knocks down road in a few years....it will sink in, about the real nature of this industry....some of us have taken the knocks and are alittle more prepared to become slightly "militant" about these issues
myturn....ever heard the term......"the pot calling the kettle black"....
kiwilad....your right...and I,m in my 30th year of flying for a living,(in kiwi and overseas)and I have yet been unable to get a lifestyle with money,or vice versa..... the closest Ive been able to get is now....working overseas and commuting back and forth to kiwi....gives me money to support my lifesyle in kiwi.....not everyones cuppa,but my choice...
Remoak...no worries mate...water off a ducks back....after these jokers have taken a few knocks down road in a few years....it will sink in, about the real nature of this industry....some of us have taken the knocks and are alittle more prepared to become slightly "militant" about these issues
myturn....ever heard the term......"the pot calling the kettle black"....
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myturn Quote......."Why you all feel so important is beyond me. How about enjoying the fantastic lesiure activity you so patheticallly call a job and get on with life before these stupid antics ruin the party"
such a naughty boy is this myturn..must surely be a mgt f
such a naughty boy is this myturn..must surely be a mgt f
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Monkeys
Gents - I apologise for using the term Monkey's as I dont really believe monkey's can fly a Q300. Not without Auto Land and all that flash gear! Really though I am not management or some sort of secret implant which is what anyone who disagree's on this forum must be. The piont is if you are going to have a fight , make it worth while and look at the ramifications. There is way to much crap about from jocks that dont know diddley and in the end it just becomes a mess. MT
myturn, its called experience and exposure unfortunately you cannot buy.
The saying about there are no old bold pilots is always good to keep in the back of ones mind.
The saying about there are no old bold pilots is always good to keep in the back of ones mind.
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myturn quote....."The piont is if you are going to have a fight , make it worth while and look at the ramifications."
at that is exactly the the whole point of this class.....unbeknown to you,many of us have been dealing with these issues for years,you have obviously not......nothing is cut and dry,and it never is....but for those of us with vested interests,...unlike yourself,...the stuggle always continues with the hope of finding common ground and fairness in getting results common to both/all parties...
you talk of "ramifications"....have you ever flown the "line"?....have you ever been on a negoiating committee?,have you ever been on an MEC?,have you ever represented a pilot group?............it seems to me,you are from the outside looking in,and have no idea of the daily "ramifications" of the industry we are in and trying to protect.....your turn
at that is exactly the the whole point of this class.....unbeknown to you,many of us have been dealing with these issues for years,you have obviously not......nothing is cut and dry,and it never is....but for those of us with vested interests,...unlike yourself,...the stuggle always continues with the hope of finding common ground and fairness in getting results common to both/all parties...
you talk of "ramifications"....have you ever flown the "line"?....have you ever been on a negoiating committee?,have you ever been on an MEC?,have you ever represented a pilot group?............it seems to me,you are from the outside looking in,and have no idea of the daily "ramifications" of the industry we are in and trying to protect.....your turn
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Too many comments from those outside the industry who are wannabe pilots.
Puma Pants, good summary of the Ansett NZ thing...we may have flown together.
To the Air Nelson guys...I don't know all your issues, but I do know how Air NZ managers work. Any good manager would not have allowed things to deteriorate to the current state of affairs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the way for a company to move forward is to have it's employees on side. This dispute is doing an incredible amount of harm to management/pilot relations. I only hope the company has enough sense to get rid of the manager concerned once this is settled (one way or another)...unlike Ansett NZ who kept the hatchet men on, and the discontent and animosity festered until the end.
Good luck.
DC
Puma Pants, good summary of the Ansett NZ thing...we may have flown together.
To the Air Nelson guys...I don't know all your issues, but I do know how Air NZ managers work. Any good manager would not have allowed things to deteriorate to the current state of affairs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the way for a company to move forward is to have it's employees on side. This dispute is doing an incredible amount of harm to management/pilot relations. I only hope the company has enough sense to get rid of the manager concerned once this is settled (one way or another)...unlike Ansett NZ who kept the hatchet men on, and the discontent and animosity festered until the end.
Good luck.
DC
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Hey Myturn,
I guess you are happy to take the terms and conditions at Air Nelson, the 'party' as you call it, remember that these conditions you enjoy now were hard fought for by those that have gone before you. It took nasty industrial conditions like you are experiencing now in the past to get what little you have now.
I guess you are happy to take the terms and conditions at Air Nelson, the 'party' as you call it, remember that these conditions you enjoy now were hard fought for by those that have gone before you. It took nasty industrial conditions like you are experiencing now in the past to get what little you have now.
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DC
I see Sep 1999 as your joining date. Coincidence, I think not. No doubt we did fly together.
You couldn't be more right about management that festers. JH is doing irreparable damage at Air Nelson. I used to fly there once, so this really annoys me to see a great wee airline being ruined by another transient manager.
I see Sep 1999 as your joining date. Coincidence, I think not. No doubt we did fly together.
You couldn't be more right about management that festers. JH is doing irreparable damage at Air Nelson. I used to fly there once, so this really annoys me to see a great wee airline being ruined by another transient manager.
Myturn
Hmmmmm, at the party, giving the ALPA guys a hard time, conclusion, must be a Fed pilot.
Well I guess you won't be accepting any of the gains that the ALPA guys get then will you?
From what I have heard some of the things being asked for are very reasonable but JH and co are refusing to budge.
By the way I am at the party but a little more realistic about it!
Well I guess you won't be accepting any of the gains that the ALPA guys get then will you?
From what I have heard some of the things being asked for are very reasonable but JH and co are refusing to budge.
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Well said 27/9
My turn.... tell me something if monkeys had been operating the Air National flight from Blenheim to CHCH, whilst that crazy cow with a knife was trying to take over, what do think the outcome would have been? One big fire ball!
If you were a proper pilot then you would know that when things are going wrong in a flight deck they go wrong very fast with potentially very bad outcomes. Thats when experience and skill comes in to play.
I believe not even a FED would talk such crap and since you are not management I can only conclude that you are nobody!
My turn.... tell me something if monkeys had been operating the Air National flight from Blenheim to CHCH, whilst that crazy cow with a knife was trying to take over, what do think the outcome would have been? One big fire ball!
If you were a proper pilot then you would know that when things are going wrong in a flight deck they go wrong very fast with potentially very bad outcomes. Thats when experience and skill comes in to play.
I believe not even a FED would talk such crap and since you are not management I can only conclude that you are nobody!
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puma pants
Well, you say potato, I say, well, the other thing. Always several views of industrial action. The only relevant points to this conversation is a) did the Ansett pilots strike, and b) what was the outcome? The answers of course are yes, they did, and they all ended up out of work. Whatever the manouverings by management, if they hadn't gone on strike, they wouldn't have lost their jobs. The fact that the pilots walked right into a carefully prepared trap is neither here nor there - although it does demonstrate a remarkable lack or foresight which is still evident on this thread.
And, for your info, I live just north of Wellington, I only work overseas - I get back every six weeks for R&R. I won't tell you what the pay is, it would be too upsetting for you...
Well, you say potato, I say, well, the other thing. Always several views of industrial action. The only relevant points to this conversation is a) did the Ansett pilots strike, and b) what was the outcome? The answers of course are yes, they did, and they all ended up out of work. Whatever the manouverings by management, if they hadn't gone on strike, they wouldn't have lost their jobs. The fact that the pilots walked right into a carefully prepared trap is neither here nor there - although it does demonstrate a remarkable lack or foresight which is still evident on this thread.
And, for your info, I live just north of Wellington, I only work overseas - I get back every six weeks for R&R. I won't tell you what the pay is, it would be too upsetting for you...
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The only relevant points to this conversation is a) did the Ansett pilots strike, and b) what was the outcome? The answers of course are yes, they did, and they all ended up out of work
If you can't pay me enough to keep me reasonably happy and still make money for yourself than you have failed as a manager/business. Better that your business go under than I stay as your effective surf. Maybe you think I should be greatful for the job as well?
Ansett went under, life goes on. New opportunities arise for those with the motivation and wherewithal to take them on. Alternativley we could kowtow to management under the veiled threat that if we demand what we feel we are worth then the skys may fall on our head. Should this happen then I will look forward to the new opportunities that will come with a further evolution within the industry, knowing that at least I was paid what I felt was my due.
Out.
Last edited by burty; 7th Apr 2008 at 05:49. Reason: Spelling of course
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Apples and oranges, remoak. Ansett was losing 2m/wk. Air Nelson is generating a little less than that on the plus side. That's why the Ansett pilots lost their jobs - because that outfit was a long way from being a going concern. This was poignantly shown when one KD, Ansett NZ's boss, was convicted of fraud and was last heard from selling fertilizer (not much different to what he was doing before he was convicted 
).
The only valid comparison between the two situations is that both KD and JH were, and are, quite certifiable.
Air Nelson pilots struck to get their first collective in 1997, an agreement that led to the sacking, from on high by AirNZ, of the then General Manager, SW, a very reasonable guy
.
Now, in 2008, they are striking to save it.
Maybe the top brass will sack the manager again.
Don't count on it, though. These people who call themselves Air NZ "managers," they thrive on industrial strife, they're just like pigs in ****.
And that is the real problem.
). The only valid comparison between the two situations is that both KD and JH were, and are, quite certifiable.
Air Nelson pilots struck to get their first collective in 1997, an agreement that led to the sacking, from on high by AirNZ, of the then General Manager, SW, a very reasonable guy
.Now, in 2008, they are striking to save it.
Maybe the top brass will sack the manager again.
Don't count on it, though. These people who call themselves Air NZ "managers," they thrive on industrial strife, they're just like pigs in ****.
And that is the real problem.
Last edited by deadhead; 7th Apr 2008 at 07:00.
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These people who call themselves "managers," they thrive on industrial strife
No one wants industrial action - pilots or management!
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You are correct - assuming that all parties are sane. I can assure you that JH would struggle to remain within those boundaries! Hence the "certifiable" comment
Try reading and understanding the entirety of a post before commenting - not just the bit that wets your nappy, son.
Try reading and understanding the entirety of a post before commenting - not just the bit that wets your nappy, son.