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Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!

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Merged: QANTASLINK Crewing Crisis!

Old 7th Feb 2008, 04:26
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Coffin Corner and megapixel32,

I don't believe the information regarding JAA to OZ is correct - might only require an Air Leg exam. I would check it out with CASA, not sure but I think it's a lot easier than going the other way.

However the rest of the info is 100% spot on. If you were to go to the trouble of converting, I think there would be a lot better job options than QL!
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 05:53
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Chris Higgins, I will bite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As one who is very much involved with Training/Checking in this outfit, I think I am in a better position to judge the standards,than a weasle like you that makes grossly inflammatory assumptions and who casts aspersions from the other side of the world. Last time I looked every airline in every country around the world cancels flights and DO NOT have to give you a reason.

The standards required by the CAR 217 Manager are unrealistically
high (read MINIMUM 4 cyclics per annum; more likely double that with sim reserve) and absolutely zero tolerance for failing to make the grade. You sit in your Netjet mate and tell me how hard it is to do engine out approaches in an aircraft not certified for autoflight coupled approaches(on one engine) in sh1t weather to 100 above the minima and then circle off the bottom(hand flown manual thrust vref plus feckall), and when you have that proficiently down pat come and tell me just how good your standards are(that's right I forgot; you have autothrust,autocoupled single engine capability and a real FMS).

For you to make those kind of statements to Hugh(who BTW is one of aviations finest and would never insult you or your outfit) really shows how much of a d1ckhead you are.

Stay over there in the land of brave and home of the free mate, with comments like yours we don't want you back here.

Go fcuk yourself.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 06:12
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Well Said Norm!
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 06:47
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'Norm' you/we obviously know that the poster yr refering to is wrong with his comments, anyone in Oz knows better but yr post has obviously shown he's getting to you. Don't let this guy get to you & win, try not 'feeding' him by responding with such bitter responses. Such displays of retaliation aren't professional & none of us here want to go down to his low level.
By simply not replying to these guys they eventually fade away 'cause they can't 'feed' off those that hnag off their 'hook'
Obviously I'm not having a go at you 'norm' just that from the outside looking in this guy isn't worth the response you gave him.

CW
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 09:20
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Norman, thanks.

Thats exactly why QL drivers are in such high demand from VB, J*, Cathay, Dragon etc. and why we are trusted with training future QANTAS Capt's. however just not good enough to fly their machines from any seat.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 11:09
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Norm 1 Higgins 0.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 13:50
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Normasars,

Alright, if you want to make a serious case of this and how great you all are. I will give you a date and time where one of your magical crews were doing a circling approach at PMQ and freely admitted that they were down at 300 feet AGL on radar altimeter and in IMC!

You call that professional?

Then there's the time and date where one of your esteemed crew had his significant other on the jumpseat and spent most of the time laughing and cackling, and could be heard most of the way back into the cabin on approach into Mascot. Myself, wife and at the time, two kids were in the back. After shut-down we were told, "Thank you for flying Qantas". (?!)

Alright, I'll admit it, these were isolated situations and they happened years back, but then there's this one:-We came back from a navex during the times of the Class 4 Night Rating and after one your crew gave his welcome to sunny Port Macquarie speeches on the area frequency got onto the crosswind leg and promptly turned off all the exterior lights(?!), how do you do that in the first place is beyond me, but it happened.

It doesn't stop there...

Not long after that we were called at the flying school to get a realtor to Sydney in the Cessna 210. The Eastern Service had been canceled because the plane had been run into a hangar, again ages ago; but the list goes on. It was followed shortly after by a canceled morning service where one of the crew had slept in.

Let's talk about standards of training, not to mention standards of etiquette and the way you represent your employer on a forum such as this.

Back in the 1990's I was flying air ambulance out of Western PA and took a children's hospital team down to Bowling Green, Kentucky. The team was delayed at the hospital as they spent more time preparing our 12 hour old patient. The following story was told to me by the flying school owner. It might explain some of the shame I feel for the way standards have deteriorated in Australian training. Your conduct on these posts lets me believe that things might even be worse.

The young Australian flying instructor took pride in telling others he had been taught in Australia and that his father was a B747 skipper for the national carrier. He was late for work most times and didn't seem to take much advice from anyone.

Several months passed and many of the students requested a change from our young hero, to one of the local breed and finally a full time student settled into a routine with him and set off on a navex to Illinois and at night, despite the fact that he was still a student pilot license holder and had never flown x-country before. Yep; it gets worse. They get lost, run out of fuel at night and crash into the side of a house, but miraculously survive!

The student goes home and signs up with another flying school in Florida and our fellow country man goes to get another plane for the flying school after being re-qualified by the local FAA officer. He demands that his employer pay him for the time spent getting the plane that replaced the one he destroyed. An argument takes place and he finally agrees his sins and begs forgiveness and a few months later gets into a Cessna 172 and runs it into a light pole.

Guess where he's working now? But then again it's been years, so maybe he's not even flying.

The story seemed so unbelievable to me at the time, because the professionalism of training at places like Sydney Tech in the late 1980's saw most of these types disappear before they even got done with their own training. They would either flunk ground school exams, not make it through the flying school's programs in Bankstown or get shot down during the issuance of their instructor's rating.

There was a time where Australian (TAA) looked at an instructional background with reassurance of standards along the way. I don't think that we have that guarantee in Australia anymore.

End of Part 1.

Last edited by Chris Higgins; 7th Feb 2008 at 14:35.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 14:10
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The aircraft I fly now goes as high as FL510 and has a maximum Mach number of 0.92. The wing is swept at 40 degrees and we have no auto throttles either and we do circling approaches at night and in mountainous terrain from non-precision approaches all of the time. It's part of the job, it's not heroic, it's procedurally flown and trained to a standard. Telluride, Aspen, Montrose, Rifle and Grand Junction are all part of a normal weekly routine during the ski season.

The little Jetstram 41 at JFK didn't have anything special on it either and I'm sure it was no less or more challenging to fly than your beloved Bombardier.

I talked to a group of Sunstate guys at baggage claim in Seattle not long ago and I'm sure that they were striving for the highest possible standards as they went to training on the Q-400. I have no doubt that they are capable and well prepared professionals.

Normasars, with a rather poorly researched and xenophobic response like your own, I doubt the standards have improved much at Eastern.

If you are such a mighty and powerful check-airman I would like to take you up on a challenge that you so seem to hold the ability to stage.

I'll fly your profile and in your simulator and in the manner in which you have described with absolutely no problems at all. It shouldn't be much of a challenge for any of your employees either and if it is, then again, that's a reflection of poor training standards.

If your training standards are poor and you are sourcing your new applicant talent from a lower experience pool, you have to either increase the standards of your training or pay more to your new hires to attract higher experience. Otherwise safety is being compromised.

The Emperor has no clothes....
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 14:33
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"Vigi-one". I can assure you that the people that leave any carrier to go to another one receive additional training. I think that's a little over the top to credit yourselves with providing the training necessary to fly for somebody like CX. In the training environment, most people bust rides on parameters that should have been met in primary training, not on technologies or automation.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 14:40
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Capn Bloggs,

In another thread with Dick Smith on Class E Airspace, you stated that you don't give position reports on an IFR flight plan in positive radar control. That would be true of here in the United States for frequency congestion alone, but what concerns me is the manner in which you responded.

What efforts have you made to ascertain if your interpretation of the Australian AIP is correct? Does your company have a safety committee? Did you call your chief pilot?

Again, unless we strive for a standard, it will never be met. We will descend into the mire of the Australian "yobbo" culture with the IQ of a retarded mosquito.

I haven't spoken to Dick Smith in years, but you can thank your lucky stars that he cares as much as he does.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 18:03
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descend into the mire of the Australian "yobbo" culture with the IQ of a retarded mosquito.
... that's tough mate. Was that really necessary?


The aircraft I fly now goes as high as FL510 and has a maximum Mach number of 0.92. The wing is swept at 40 degrees and we have no auto throttles either and we do circling approaches at night and in mountainous terrain from non-precision approaches all of the time.
I get down on my knee's and bow down to you, Oh great one.



(this dude doesn't belong here)
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 21:14
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I doubt the standards have improved much at Eastern.
Sorry Chris - you're way out of line with most of what you've posted. I can't find a single thing in there that informs the discussion at hand (current status of QL operations) or recent evidence that training standards at EAA are anything less than exemplary. To draw such a conclusion and to post it is simply inflammatory and nobody here needs to put up with it.

If you've got anything relevant to say on the thread topic - by all means drop a reply, other wise start your own thread or do as Norma requested.

I do actually have one or two ideas on the current situation at QL - anybody wanna get back on topic or are we all going to get sucked in to an irrelevancy?
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 21:16
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

Chris Higgins,

I won't speak for other contributors on this forum. My posts are not intended to be critical of my employer. The reason I made the statements I did is because I don't want to see what is essentially a good company in crisis. Employees have a right and responsibility to draw matters to their employer's attention which might help improve the well-being of the company. I have openly expressed these feelings to my direct managers (who read these pages) and they all know who I am - A result of using my nickname as my PRRuNe login

I have enjoyed working for this company almost 14 years. I find your allegations are emotive, offensive, and at best difficult to believe, because I personally know and have flown with every Captain in this company in my time in one capacity or another. I have never witnessed any of the behaviours you describe.

Alright, I'll admit it, these were isolated situations and they happened years back, but then there's this one:-We came back from a navex during the times of the Class 4 Night Rating and after one your crew gave his welcome to sunny Port Macquarie speeches on the area frequency got onto the crosswind leg and promptly turned off all the exterior lights(?!), how do you do that in the first place is beyond me, but it happened.
1. We don't do PA's during sterile flight deck;
2. Back then the aircraft fitout had a separate interphone/PA handset so it would not be possible to do the PA on the radio without a significant brain fade; Nonetheless I've had finger trouble in the past with the radios and no doubt will again. That's what's called human factors, Chris. Sorry, I'm not a skygod belting around at F510 with 40 deg sweepback
3. To turn off all exterior lights would activate a caution light in the flight deck, necessitating action via a QRH procedure. Not something you really want to do in the circuit if you can avoid it, especially at night.

Myth Busted

Alright, if you want to make a serious case of this and how great you all are. I will give you a date and time where one of your magical crews were doing a circling approach at PMQ and freely admitted that they were down at 300 feet AGL on radar altimeter and in IMC!
We don't have any "magical crews", Chris. Just average blokes and girls doing a job. I suggest you read your Jepps, Chris. Visual Circling, when meeting the minimum criteria for circling IS an IMC manoeuvre by definition, because 2.4k vis (Cat B) is less than VMC. 300' obstacle clearance by day is also perfectly legal, provided you can visually sight and avoid the obstacles.

So what did the crew do wrong? Unless you were in the flight deck looking out the window you are not qualified to make your statement. No doubt you will retort with "no, that's not what I meant - I meant they were in cloud". Prove it.

Myth Busted

Give us a break. The general populace around here know you dislike Eastern. Who knows why? I've never seen a positive post from you yet (apart from stroking your own and Dick Smith's ego). No disrespect intended to DS.

Now let's get back on the topic. People leaving Qantaslink.

Good morning.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 21:53
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Hugh,

Your references to circling would be correct if they represented the lowest value for circling with adequate visual reference to the airport and the aircraft was 300' above the highest obstacle in the circling radius. Any operation of the aircraft below the published minima in anything other than a visual maneuver is careless and reckless operation. Your assertion that a circling approach is an instrument procedure is in defiance of airmanship as well as legislation.

Yeah, well, we know where these guys are getting their ideas!

I'm glad you've enjoyed working with your crews.

Good Luck!!
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 22:21
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Pilot Shortage?

Well thing's can't be to bad at Qantaslink. A friend of mine just got knocked back with an ATPL and Grade 1, Charter/Instructing background. He thinks he must just be a Psycho, as proved by the psych and skills test?
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 00:56
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QL in crisis??

Not wanting to get involved in the back and fro comms between some parties, there has been some comments that the pilot shortage will be over in 2 years.

I am not sure about that though as QF group has a very large (>100) order book at present, all due before 2015 max. With increasing activity in the area in regards to new/ expanding operations, and the current pilot draw that that requires, I believe we might be talking about pilot shortages for some time to come.

Add to this the fact that anyone less than the direct decendant of the well off just wouldn't be able to look at pilot training.

Pilot shortage over in 2 years - I'm just not sure. Personally, I drive a desk at the moment; but would jump at the chance to even drive a Q2-300 for the rest of my time.

Safe flying to all.
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 01:06
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A friend of mine just got knocked back with an ATPL and Grade 1, Charter/Instructing background.
Perhaps he/she is a little overqualified.

You only need HSC and CPL.

Which reminds me, How are these new un-instrument-rated juniors going to get their Ratings? In the sim?

Where are they going to get their first real IF and real approaches? On the line?


p.s. CH
The aircraft I fly now goes as high as FL515 and has a maximum Mach number of 0.93. The wing is swept at 42 degrees and we have 15 degrees anhedral. We go really, really fast. So that makes me more important I reckon.

Last edited by WynSock; 8th Feb 2008 at 01:35.
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 01:58
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I'm happy for you Wynsock, the International Space Station looks pretty cool from there, don't you also "reckon"?

Just remember which switch to turn on to come back down.

We can all talk about this over a beer after we fly that Dash 8 sim around, right Normasars?
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 02:21
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Normasars,

Engine out negates auto throttle in any aircraft with auto throttle capability....as far as I know. A/P is available as long as the FGC or similar is not being asked for control inputs beyond it's capability. Stand to be corrected. And the subject of the thread seems to have been lost.

D
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Old 8th Feb 2008, 02:28
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As an aside Chris H. Did cessna not make the 10/X with auto throttle?

D
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