Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TFN deflects criticism
TFN deflected criticism in his announcement on the Avnet today re him being slow to start CA negotiations. He went on to bash the unions over the disgraceful negotiations last time and blame everyone but himself.
When oh when is the Rudd Government going to appoint a Chairman and dispense with this poor excuse for a CEO.
When oh when is the Rudd Government going to appoint a Chairman and dispense with this poor excuse for a CEO.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for any journo's trolling this site, please don't be surprised when our staffing gets worse.
On 12th may, after being 2 weeks late to start EBA negoiations (6 months prior to expiry), AsA then said they would need 4-5 weeks to have anything ready.
so, 5 weeks later, AsA finally gets to another meeting to say
"Unfortunately, Airservices are presently unable to provide any of their proposals as they need the Airservices Board to sign off on the proposals. This Board meeting will occur on 24 June. "
so much for being keen to start negoiations, or do so in good faith (as per TFN's statements). I'm pretty sure board meetings are scheduled well in advance - why not just say back in May that they'd still be delaying til the end of june?
unless there is a quick resolution to this, my grey-haired companions in defined benfits are going to leave because their super pays almost the same for no shiftwork, and anybody with more than 5 years experience is going to go overseas for an immediate payrise that would take another 5-6 years to achieve here (assuming their manager approved it).
On 12th may, after being 2 weeks late to start EBA negoiations (6 months prior to expiry), AsA then said they would need 4-5 weeks to have anything ready.
so, 5 weeks later, AsA finally gets to another meeting to say
"Unfortunately, Airservices are presently unable to provide any of their proposals as they need the Airservices Board to sign off on the proposals. This Board meeting will occur on 24 June. "
so much for being keen to start negoiations, or do so in good faith (as per TFN's statements). I'm pretty sure board meetings are scheduled well in advance - why not just say back in May that they'd still be delaying til the end of june?
unless there is a quick resolution to this, my grey-haired companions in defined benfits are going to leave because their super pays almost the same for no shiftwork, and anybody with more than 5 years experience is going to go overseas for an immediate payrise that would take another 5-6 years to achieve here (assuming their manager approved it).
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
they need the Airservices Board to sign off on the proposals
Does this not say to all and sundry that the offer you (finally) get to see is a take it or leave it deal or what!
No, it does not bode well at all that any discussions will be in good faith and conducted in the "a better way of doing it" mantra.
I can hear it now........."we'd like to pay more but the governement has restricted us"
"the cats eaten it" would be more credible IMHFO.
Watch this space wreckin' fans
Unfortunately, we are unable to provide an answer to your phone call , as any of your phoned through proposals on how I spend my days off need the Board of the Wife/Husband/Kids/Dog to sign off on your proposals. This meeting will occur sometime after 24 June. Please leave a message after the beep"
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATC Staffing - Crikey joins the airwaves
Air Traffic Controllers are crying out for help
An air traffic controller's wife writes:
As the wife of an Air Traffic Controller, I’m angry, disheartened, and in complete shock as to what is happening in our aviation industry at present and cannot sit back and just watch this all go by.
Air Traffic Controllers are crying out for help and clarification. At the moment Air Traffic Controllers who are not trained on and hold no rating for certain positions are sitting at consoles looking at a radar screen whilst their fellow Air Traffic Controllers get a short toilet break to get them through their eight hour shift.
Air Traffic Controllers on numerous occasions have contacted CASA and Airservices Australia to clarify their position as to the legal implications of these circumstances. So far, no official response has been forthcoming. Air Services Australia have their heads so deeply stuck in the sand about the huge staffing crisis they don’t seem to think this is a problem. The fact that they are only receiving one such break during a shift is again another issue in itself.
Airservices Australia chief executive Greg Russell stood up in the Senate Estimates Committee and said with a straight face everything is going well; just a little too much reliance on overtime at the moment. There are Air Traffic Controllers working 10 shifts on and with one day off and starting this cycle again. Air Traffic Controllers are being called not once, not twice but up to five times on their day off to come in and are being made to feel pressured to attend work to prop up the system. Controllers are being called on whilst on annual leave.
The direction to the air traffic control line managers is to not let the airspace close (TIBA) at all costs. Currently Air Services Australia are having air space closures on an almost daily basis and this is ever increasing. Air Traffic Controllers for the past 10 years have been trying to provide ideas and suggestions to assist with a long term vision to deal with staffing issues.
Whilst airports are seeing huge increases in air traffic, passengers and tourism in the next few years they will not have any Controllers to actually see these aircraft come in safely. They are sick to death of being treated like second class citizens on one hand, and then on the other being asked to help prop up the system for the love of the job.
I have had enough, and I am just a Controller's wife, who is very upset and sick to death of the way Airservices Australia run their business. Imagine how the Air Traffic Controllers are feeling when they face it every day and are banging their heads against a brick wall on every issue they raise.
An air traffic controller's wife writes:
As the wife of an Air Traffic Controller, I’m angry, disheartened, and in complete shock as to what is happening in our aviation industry at present and cannot sit back and just watch this all go by.
Air Traffic Controllers are crying out for help and clarification. At the moment Air Traffic Controllers who are not trained on and hold no rating for certain positions are sitting at consoles looking at a radar screen whilst their fellow Air Traffic Controllers get a short toilet break to get them through their eight hour shift.
Air Traffic Controllers on numerous occasions have contacted CASA and Airservices Australia to clarify their position as to the legal implications of these circumstances. So far, no official response has been forthcoming. Air Services Australia have their heads so deeply stuck in the sand about the huge staffing crisis they don’t seem to think this is a problem. The fact that they are only receiving one such break during a shift is again another issue in itself.
Airservices Australia chief executive Greg Russell stood up in the Senate Estimates Committee and said with a straight face everything is going well; just a little too much reliance on overtime at the moment. There are Air Traffic Controllers working 10 shifts on and with one day off and starting this cycle again. Air Traffic Controllers are being called not once, not twice but up to five times on their day off to come in and are being made to feel pressured to attend work to prop up the system. Controllers are being called on whilst on annual leave.
The direction to the air traffic control line managers is to not let the airspace close (TIBA) at all costs. Currently Air Services Australia are having air space closures on an almost daily basis and this is ever increasing. Air Traffic Controllers for the past 10 years have been trying to provide ideas and suggestions to assist with a long term vision to deal with staffing issues.
Whilst airports are seeing huge increases in air traffic, passengers and tourism in the next few years they will not have any Controllers to actually see these aircraft come in safely. They are sick to death of being treated like second class citizens on one hand, and then on the other being asked to help prop up the system for the love of the job.
I have had enough, and I am just a Controller's wife, who is very upset and sick to death of the way Airservices Australia run their business. Imagine how the Air Traffic Controllers are feeling when they face it every day and are banging their heads against a brick wall on every issue they raise.
They have been 'on to it' for quite some time now:
12 Feb 2008
1 Feb 2008
29 Jan 2008
20 Nov 2007
14 Nov 2007
12 Feb 2008
1 Feb 2008
29 Jan 2008
20 Nov 2007
14 Nov 2007
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Here today, gone tommorrow
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I being simplistic, but what evere happenned when there was a supervisor overseeing multiple positions, and same said supervisor was rated on all of those positions, probably having worked his way up thru the ranks on those consoles.
When a short break was required the supervisor could sit in, legally, for that break.
When a short break was required the supervisor could sit in, legally, for that break.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Marauder
Am I being simplistic, but what evere happenned when there was a supervisor overseeing multiple positions, and same said supervisor was rated on all of those positions, probably having worked his way up thru the ranks on those consoles.
When a short break was required the supervisor could sit in, legally, for that break
When a short break was required the supervisor could sit in, legally, for that break
Originally Posted by CrazyMTOWDog
Your not talking about the good ol days in RAAF ATC are you?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Here today, gone tommorrow
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No. not at all. Never RAAF
In no way condoning the ASA run down of a system that was once world class, and covered over 10%of the planet. I'm referring to a system where akeen young sprog that would work their way thru Flight Data, onto Procedural Sectors, then Radar Sectors, Arrivals, Approach, and approaching retirement age, would become the SAAC. These wise old blokes (sorry ladies, back then they all were blokes, mainly gentlemen), had been there, seen it all. On a doggo, if you needed a leek, pie in the microwave etc they could step in, legally, as they normally retained most of the ratings.
The ratings that they still hadn't retained were never left as single staff postions anyway, i.e App in most centres has a Radar Controlller, and Co-ord, both legally rated to cover all of the TMA slots.
I ask the question now, from the other side of the fence now, what the **** is my Company paying ASA for except Executive bonuses!
To the troops in the field, live long and prosper.
In no way condoning the ASA run down of a system that was once world class, and covered over 10%of the planet. I'm referring to a system where akeen young sprog that would work their way thru Flight Data, onto Procedural Sectors, then Radar Sectors, Arrivals, Approach, and approaching retirement age, would become the SAAC. These wise old blokes (sorry ladies, back then they all were blokes, mainly gentlemen), had been there, seen it all. On a doggo, if you needed a leek, pie in the microwave etc they could step in, legally, as they normally retained most of the ratings.
The ratings that they still hadn't retained were never left as single staff postions anyway, i.e App in most centres has a Radar Controlller, and Co-ord, both legally rated to cover all of the TMA slots.
I ask the question now, from the other side of the fence now, what the **** is my Company paying ASA for except Executive bonuses!
To the troops in the field, live long and prosper.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brissy
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Majority of supervisors in the two major centres don't hold endorsements anymore (which in some individual cases is safer) as they are too busy supervising us!!
The System Supervisors (up the front) don't hold ratings either.
If you need a toilet break and no other rated person for your sector is there you have to ask the supervisor (generally unrated) to listen while you go wee wee. Just hope you pee quick.
And the issues just escalate when you start talking about rest breaks when no rated staff to handover to.
The System Supervisors (up the front) don't hold ratings either.
If you need a toilet break and no other rated person for your sector is there you have to ask the supervisor (generally unrated) to listen while you go wee wee. Just hope you pee quick.
And the issues just escalate when you start talking about rest breaks when no rated staff to handover to.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taking this supervisor thing one step futher and an interesting situation that is the subject of a round of emails at the moment.
What is the go when an area is NOTAMed as TIBA and sometime during this period an ATC chirps up on freq and announces that they should not "be there" but will "monitor" the situation while a number of aircraft sort themselves out.
"I can feel a lawsuit comin' on"
What is the go when an area is NOTAMed as TIBA and sometime during this period an ATC chirps up on freq and announces that they should not "be there" but will "monitor" the situation while a number of aircraft sort themselves out.
"I can feel a lawsuit comin' on"
Pardoned PPRuNer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: GlassGumtree
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a doggo, if you needed a leek, pie in the microwave etc they could step in, legally, as they normally retained most of the ratings.
....those were the days....
TT
Just Binos
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mackay, Australia
Age: 71
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we were a little more....well - understanding back then.
1983:
XXX: Ready
TWR: XXX, line up, be ready for immediate rolling start, 747 on three mile final
TWR to APP: Next XXX, give me something mate!
APP: Jesus,, are you kidding? Ok, separate runway heading unrestricted; **** I hope this works
TWR: XXX MR, clear for immediate takeoff!
QF1: Tower, I don't like the look of this...
TWR: QF1, Continue approach expect late landing clearance, it'll fit.
TWR to APP: Skinny five, Billy, separate in the turn, over to you mate.
APP: thanks a bunch! You owe me one........
2005: XXX ready for immediate.
TWR. (thinks.... if I line this Citation up and it doesn't work that bastard on Approach will have an incident report in on me before the Citation gets airborne. I'll be in more **** than a Hunter Brothers truck. Stuff that.)
"Hold short of the runway, expect three minute delay."
It ain't the controllers, folks, it's the system.
First and last "good old days" story, I promise!
Different issues at hand here.
One is experience.
The other is resources.
We are losing the former and have not enough of the latter - to mould in to the former.
Bino's transcript now would be something more like:
QF1: "Tower I don't like the look of this..."
QF1: " Tower? Hello, anybody there?...."
(Sorry Captain - he caught the last QF2 out of here on his way to <insert fair paying destination> )
One is experience.
The other is resources.
We are losing the former and have not enough of the latter - to mould in to the former.
Bino's transcript now would be something more like:
QF1: "Tower I don't like the look of this..."
QF1: " Tower? Hello, anybody there?...."
(Sorry Captain - he caught the last QF2 out of here on his way to <insert fair paying destination> )
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would that be Launceston or Melbourne Tower?
Re; "First and last "good old days" story, I promise!"
AW, c'mon 'Binos'.......You have a wealth of them I'd bet......
Best Regards
AW, c'mon 'Binos'.......You have a wealth of them I'd bet......
Best Regards