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Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels

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Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels

Old 3rd Mar 2023, 09:58
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Thanks, info is appreciated, I wasn’t using the sick call example with any judgement attached. The pilot side is the same, we work harder, we get sick more, no brainer in a shift work environment.
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Old 3rd Mar 2023, 23:58
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Broderick......
Honestly please....talk about triggering.
Im guessing Tossbag, like me you've been around long enough to know the Mafioso from the early years and the absolute hypocrisy....the absolute hypocrisy that is the Broderick review.
These two at the top were amongst the very worst offenders.
I'll stop short of going into detail but ASA was cooked the day MS was knifed in the back.....all we've had since then essentially is the sociopath in charge of the asylum.
BN APP is spot on, there are no bods to allocate the shifts...its a triumph in organisational management!
Greetings everyone from the YMML Asylum.

Last edited by longtermatc-career; 4th Mar 2023 at 11:42.
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Old 4th Mar 2023, 10:58
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But you know what I mean when I talk about Broderick, maybe not. I'm going down the rabbit hole that caused it in the first place, our North Melbourne friend being in it up to his eyeballs and his best mate's behaviour particularly in the stairwells of his palace.

And the way the **** behaved in the Senate hearings when MS appeared, that was it for me, game over.
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Old 5th Mar 2023, 08:17
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I checked out when it became apparent what TFN had in mind for the organisation.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 11:51
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ZNJ's diversion to Newcastle that night is now being investigated by the ATSB. Will be interesting to see what will be said in relation to Airservices and their handling.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 13:10
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Any truth to the rumour that AS tower has only been staffed by one person in recent weeks.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 02:26
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Regarding the high levels of overtime worked (upwards of 500 hours or 60 shifts/year in one of the remaining stand alone TCU's), Many had hoped that Covid would be the reset that most ATC's would need to realise that time away from work, spent with family and friends was far more important than propping up a failing (failed?) system. Unfortunately that old habits are hard to break and perhaps big capital city mortgages drive so much of the decision making, but it appears that little has changed.

In term of CASA/ATSB investigations, sadly both organisations seem to have a number of ex ASA managers within their realms. I will let you decide what effect that may have.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 21:41
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Be interesting if they have a look at the Singapore A350 I think it was that landed on 25 as the storm front crossed the field as part of it too….18 months and two years.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 22:00
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Oh wow. I thought I was reading a thread from 2010. This whole full time equivalent thing still hasn't worked out. If your group needs 13.2 and the other needs 11,1, that equals 24.3 in AsA speak as opposed to the reality of 26. Any number greater than zero needs a body and fractions can't be added.

Good luck brothers and sisters.


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Old 14th Mar 2023, 23:53
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Any number greater than zero needs a body and fractions can't be added.
True true, although some controllers provide just a fraction of a service. If we can identify them and assign them to the appropriate unit the ASA system might work?
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 05:27
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Originally Posted by framer
True true, although some controllers provide just a fraction of a service. If we can identify them and assign them to the appropriate unit the ASA system might work?
Or AsA could just ensure that each group has at least a couple of extraordinary ATCs who are able to continue to provide the service by working an additional 750 hours each year.

The average experienced ATC is rostered to work about 1660 hours per year, taking into account Rec. Leave and familiarisation periods after being on leave.

So, such extraordinary ATCs are worth 1.45 of their peers (plus another $130,000 (less tax) on top of their normal salary).
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 07:21
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Originally Posted by sunnySA
Or AsA could just ensure that each group has at least a couple of extraordinary ATCs who are able to continue to provide the service by working an additional 750 hours each year.

The average experienced ATC is rostered to work about 1660 hours per year, taking into account Rec. Leave and familiarisation periods after being on leave.

So, such extraordinary ATCs are worth 1.45 of their peers (plus another $130,000 (less tax) on top of their normal salary).
Where do we find such ATCs?
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Old 15th Mar 2023, 11:56
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I'm sure Workforce Deployment have no idea.....crap, sorry.
That was suppose to read.
I'm sure Workforce Deployment are totally clueless.....damn it happened again.
Don't count on the Training College anytime soon either.

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Old 15th Mar 2023, 16:26
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Originally Posted by missy
Where do we find such ATCs?
I can think of a few places around the world but most of them only work ~1400 hours per year. Leave on demand and little to no OT.
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Old 5th Apr 2023, 13:19
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Is the truth about Airservices going to finally set us free?

Here's hoping!

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Old 9th Apr 2023, 09:46
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Airservices employs more than 900 ATCs, 97 per cent of which are in operational roles. Airservices only requires about 800 ATCs to fully staff the ATC network,” said a spokesperson for Airservices in a statement.
Im pretty sure the execs at ASA don’t understand the game they are playing here. I hope, for everyone’s sake, that they get away with it.
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Old 9th Apr 2023, 10:57
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They understand full well, they have been playing this game for decades. The prize goes to the current crop though;

"We have a need for 800 operational controllers, we have 900 controllers, 98% of them are in operational roles." mmmm, ok, doesn't make sense but read on. We have given over 100 redundancies, but somehow the 800/900 spilt that has been quoted for the last 10 years endures, magic pudding stuff.

"However, we are recruiting 140 controllers this year and the next few years. We acknowledge some operational issues", those being multiple airspace closures, ongoing 'operational' issues, re, continuing airspace closures. So, you have an operational need for 800, you have 900, 98% efficiency but you're hiring 140 per year for the next few years, mmmm, doesn't make sense but maybe they're gunning for a 800/1350 split?

So the ongoing, decades long 800/900 split paradigm does not add up when you sift through the horse****. But continue it does and continue it will, because basically nobody gives a ****.

Last edited by tossbag; 9th Apr 2023 at 11:25.
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Old 12th Apr 2023, 10:51
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Originally Posted by DROPS
A complete reset is required. Scarily, nobody knows what that looks like, or the eventual catalyst for it.
Catalyst ? When the CEO is replaced or AsA returns to the Department..
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Old 13th Apr 2023, 00:11
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When it dawns on a sufficient number of Australians that Airservices is now being run mainly for the enrichment of its executives rather than the safety and efficiency of air navigation, and neither CASA nor ATSB is going to do anything about it. Hopefully the catalyst for that dawning won’t be a mid-air involving an RPT jet in TRA, TIBA or G airspace.
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Old 13th Apr 2023, 12:43
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
When it dawns on a sufficient number of Australians that Airservices is now being run mainly for the enrichment of its executives rather than the safety and efficiency of air navigation, and neither CASA nor ATSB is going to do anything about it. Hopefully the catalyst for that dawning won’t be a mid-air involving an RPT jet in TRA, TIBA or G airspace.
One of my former colleagues said "the worst thing that can happen would be the best thing that can happen". Sobering.

LB, like you I also hope that the catalyst isn't a mid-air involving an RPT jet in TRA, TIBA or G airspace (or any other airspace classification).
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