Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels
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4-5 months away from oblivion more likely. The exodus of ATC's will continue...
How many have left?
And where is this great 'promised land' they are all going to?
I know of one guy who has a contract in the sandpit in Brisvegas and a couple who who have turned them down....
TT
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Max1,
regards commencement of negotiations, you forgot to mention that TFN and JH also cancelled another meeting to set a date with less than 24hr notice, with no reason given
and then TFN took more than a week to respond to a letter sent to him about rescheduling. 
So AsA stalled for 2 weeks, only to come to the meeting and say they need another 4-5 weeks.
While hardly un-anticipated, it does nothing for my morale 
and just proves that you can't believe a word TFN says. [so much for all his talk about a better way of conducting EBA's and giving us a "damn good payrise" - both PUBLISHED statements in our internal newsletter and external company magazine]
And lo & behold, the tone of the meeting is that AsA once again expects anything above CPI increases to be offset by productivity gains.
There's two problems with this - eventually (and thats right now, after the last 3 punitive EBA's) there's nothing left to give up T&C wise. 2nd. - the productivity has already been achieved - staff numbers have stalled/decreased, while traffic continues to increase.
TrafficTraffic,
regards evidence of mass exodus: the fellow controllers I've spoken to have said this lack of good will by AsA to reward their work and share the profit has moved an overseas job from a possible option to a serious alternative.
regards commencement of negotiations, you forgot to mention that TFN and JH also cancelled another meeting to set a date with less than 24hr notice, with no reason given
and then TFN took more than a week to respond to a letter sent to him about rescheduling. So AsA stalled for 2 weeks, only to come to the meeting and say they need another 4-5 weeks.
While hardly un-anticipated, it does nothing for my morale and just proves that you can't believe a word TFN says. [so much for all his talk about a better way of conducting EBA's and giving us a "damn good payrise" - both PUBLISHED statements in our internal newsletter and external company magazine]And lo & behold, the tone of the meeting is that AsA once again expects anything above CPI increases to be offset by productivity gains.
There's two problems with this - eventually (and thats right now, after the last 3 punitive EBA's) there's nothing left to give up T&C wise. 2nd. - the productivity has already been achieved - staff numbers have stalled/decreased, while traffic continues to increase.TrafficTraffic,
regards evidence of mass exodus: the fellow controllers I've spoken to have said this lack of good will by AsA to reward their work and share the profit has moved an overseas job from a possible option to a serious alternative.
what exodus would that be
So Traffic x2 , TIBA, NOTAMs regarding delays and non rated controllers filling in for people on comfort breaks means ATC don't have any issues regarding manning?
Doesn't look that way from FL 410
Doesn't look that way from FL 410
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So Traffic x2 , TIBA, NOTAMs regarding delays and non rated controllers filling in for people on comfort breaks means ATC don't have any issues regarding manning?
Doesn't look that way from FL 410
Doesn't look that way from FL 410
With retirements, redundancies and resignations, Sydney ATC look like loosing twelve this year
Its nice to know that you do occasionally look out when you are up at FL410 (the perspective however is a little skewed) - but I didnt know Metro's could go that high!
TT
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TrafficTraffic - we have lost 30% of our staff overseas in the last 6 months, and another may leave soon. I'd call that an exodus, at least in our workplace.
Cheers,
NFR.
Cheers,
NFR.
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I suspect that the 30% refers to one particular group, numbers of controllers at the console, not in the back room, and, excluding ALMs. Not necessarily a reflection of the Centre as a whole, or the body of controllers in Australia as a whole...
Traffic is correct. And I might add that the attrition rate of the last few years has been nothing like what it was in years past... when there was a steady stream of resignations as controllers left to turn their hobbies/second jobs into full-time careers... Real-Estate Agents, Bankers, Amway, sailing charters, Goat Farming (he was back after the bottom fell out of the market), pottery business, computing business, taxi drivers, sheep/wheat farming, QANTAS, other flying ventures... and, transfers within Air Traffic Control... to the College, to regional Towers, to Capital City Towers, to Approach... not a flood but a consistent flow of departures that was higher than in recent years.
There may have been a change in sentiment in regard to leaving from "possible" to "a serious alternative", but until people walk out the door, it's not an Exodus.
Until people walk out the door, the EBA negotiations will deliver nothing more than a small increase above CPI and the removal/reduction of some current entitlements. TFN and JH already have the bottle of Champagne sitting on the desk, waiting to be opened. They know that they will win... and they have the Governments support in doing so... "wages restraint".
Nothing will change... until people walk out the door.
Traffic is correct. And I might add that the attrition rate of the last few years has been nothing like what it was in years past... when there was a steady stream of resignations as controllers left to turn their hobbies/second jobs into full-time careers... Real-Estate Agents, Bankers, Amway, sailing charters, Goat Farming (he was back after the bottom fell out of the market), pottery business, computing business, taxi drivers, sheep/wheat farming, QANTAS, other flying ventures... and, transfers within Air Traffic Control... to the College, to regional Towers, to Capital City Towers, to Approach... not a flood but a consistent flow of departures that was higher than in recent years.
There may have been a change in sentiment in regard to leaving from "possible" to "a serious alternative", but until people walk out the door, it's not an Exodus.
Until people walk out the door, the EBA negotiations will deliver nothing more than a small increase above CPI and the removal/reduction of some current entitlements. TFN and JH already have the bottle of Champagne sitting on the desk, waiting to be opened. They know that they will win... and they have the Governments support in doing so... "wages restraint".
Nothing will change... until people walk out the door.
Sorry Tx2, I have never had the pleasure of flying the.....flying pencil.
I do occasionally look out the window....but only when TCAS tells me to! I just fear I may have to look out more often in the future.
I do occasionally look out the window....but only when TCAS tells me to! I just fear I may have to look out more often in the future.
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Yes, just one group, not including ALMs. Controllers at the coalface, so the ones earning the $$$ and talking to planes. Bahrain was the lucky winner. Thinking back, it was actually two lost to Bahrain, one no longer in traffic and one transferred. Still, ripping 4 people out of our roster is a little difficult. What would happen if 20% left across all the groups?
I think the current negotiations will be make or break for AsA. There are numerous jobs out there. I know one person who has been offered three jobs in the last fortnight - all overseas. People who are willing to pack up and leave will do so if the negotiations are not favourable.
Cheers,
NFR.
I think the current negotiations will be make or break for AsA. There are numerous jobs out there. I know one person who has been offered three jobs in the last fortnight - all overseas. People who are willing to pack up and leave will do so if the negotiations are not favourable.
Cheers,
NFR.
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A little bit of me dies inside - but I agree with Quokka - until they are gone, its not an exodus. Thinking about going and actually going are two very different things.
TT
TT
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TT
Or there is the thinking of coming back , then the realisation that you can commute from Aus to Europe to work a maximum of 135 shifts a year at 80% of your Euro salary...SWEEEEET.
Or there is the thinking of coming back , then the realisation that you can commute from Aus to Europe to work a maximum of 135 shifts a year at 80% of your Euro salary...SWEEEEET.
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Well it looks like the goodwill ship has sailed, even the younger guys who have been up to their red eyeballs in O/T have decided that the 4-5 week delay from ASA is the straw to break the camels back.
Wayne Swan has been in the job for less than 6 months and can come up with a budget for the country. I'm not saying if its good or bad , just that he was able to meet the deadline. ASA have had 2+ years and can't come up with anything covering less than a 1000 people (and getting less as we type).
May we live in interesting times.
Wayne Swan has been in the job for less than 6 months and can come up with a budget for the country. I'm not saying if its good or bad , just that he was able to meet the deadline. ASA have had 2+ years and can't come up with anything covering less than a 1000 people (and getting less as we type).
May we live in interesting times.
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There is another way...
Euronator has touched on a very important subject... maximum number of shifts per year.
In Oz, there is no maximum, but there is an enterprise incentive in place to encourage controllers to work extra days each year to supplement their income accompanied by a culture of aggressive intimidation to ensure that controllers attend for an arbitrary minimum of overtime shifts over the course of the year.
For some time I've been pondering the dilemma of how conditions may be improved in Australia without requiring a Keynesian inspired corporate failure accompanied by a significant increase in risk within Australian aviation during the transition to some kind of aviation nirvana.
However, in respect of Air Traffic Control, it could be as simple as lobbying CASA to regulate a maximum number of shifts per year that a controller can be allowed to work... with absolutely no exceptions.
Before everyone starts screaming about the removal of their supplementary income (overtime payments), have a think about what might follow...
Less shifts per year = reduced fatigue therefore increased safety.
Less shifts per year = more controllers required.
Global shortage = less controllers available (including ab initio).
Less controllers available = increased salary package to attract and retain controllers (Market forces applied, therefore no requirement for legally-hazardous industrial action).
Hours enforced by CASA = an end to the culture of aggressive intimidation.
An end to the culture of aggressive intimidation = increase in morale.
Increase in morale = increase in safety.
In Oz, there is no maximum, but there is an enterprise incentive in place to encourage controllers to work extra days each year to supplement their income accompanied by a culture of aggressive intimidation to ensure that controllers attend for an arbitrary minimum of overtime shifts over the course of the year.
For some time I've been pondering the dilemma of how conditions may be improved in Australia without requiring a Keynesian inspired corporate failure accompanied by a significant increase in risk within Australian aviation during the transition to some kind of aviation nirvana.
However, in respect of Air Traffic Control, it could be as simple as lobbying CASA to regulate a maximum number of shifts per year that a controller can be allowed to work... with absolutely no exceptions.
Before everyone starts screaming about the removal of their supplementary income (overtime payments), have a think about what might follow...
Less shifts per year = reduced fatigue therefore increased safety.
Less shifts per year = more controllers required.
Global shortage = less controllers available (including ab initio).
Less controllers available = increased salary package to attract and retain controllers (Market forces applied, therefore no requirement for legally-hazardous industrial action).
Hours enforced by CASA = an end to the culture of aggressive intimidation.
An end to the culture of aggressive intimidation = increase in morale.
Increase in morale = increase in safety.
a culture of aggressive intimidation to ensure that controllers attend for an arbitrary minimum of overtime shifts over the course of the year.
The part of the world I live in these days makes me shake my head the way they faal over themselves to do EDs and Change of Shift. In the next breath they are complaining about not being able to take their Long Service Leave.
Lucky I don't carry a gun at work.
