Merged: REX to employ Cadets
Air Ace,
The insult is in the fact that REX would rather spend large amounts of money on unqualified strangers, by that I mean people with zero industry experience, rather than improve the working conditions of the existing professionals in their employ.
Having said that, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but did you even read my post?
I've got news for you,
REX Ain't Qantas!
My opinion is that in the current environment, a REX cadetship will fail. Given what Qantas has on offer (a career with the national carrier) and what REX have on offer, (a bonded $41K a year job with no certainty of advancement), mmmm....?
You do the math.
The insult is in the fact that REX would rather spend large amounts of money on unqualified strangers, by that I mean people with zero industry experience, rather than improve the working conditions of the existing professionals in their employ.
Having said that, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but did you even read my post?
I've got news for you,
REX Ain't Qantas!
My opinion is that in the current environment, a REX cadetship will fail. Given what Qantas has on offer (a career with the national carrier) and what REX have on offer, (a bonded $41K a year job with no certainty of advancement), mmmm....?
You do the math.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 22nd Sep 2007 at 21:42. Reason: restoration
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TINTIN25 and the (thrust) of KRUSTY's post are that now they are looking to the future (hey, can't knock that so 
) and are willing to invest $$$ (also cannot knock that so another .)
The point missed is that, like all things airline related, the the game has changed - for cadets as well as real (hey, I mean those have taken another approach rather than "Scientology Airline 101"
) airline pilots, not just those with ghost seniority numbers. 
Loyalty to my profession remains but loyalty to any airline died on 13.9.01; the idea of joining any airline and remaining is (or should be) well in the past, especially if you "pay" for your airline gig (the admitted upside is that it is YOUR endorsement so if/whenever you decide to look at options there can NEVER be any acrimony from management; "they reap what they sow" would be apt!!
)
Unless they tie up any cadet scheme in reams of legalese they will lose heaps of those who they pay for.
If they DO try to tie it up in legalese then more fool those who sign up.
Krusty's final point extremely valid; they still haven't addressed the important concept (at least IMHO) of having experienced pilots to look after/train the less experienced.
Air Ace - assuming you are talking tongue-in-cheek when talking about the successful Qantas scheme in the 60's and 70's, infers you think the 80's and 90's scheme leave something to be desired (sniff,sniff!
)
Prey tell - you wouldn't be a 60's/70's cadet by any chance??
Still get the S/O to carry your bags??
Jet-A-Knight shame upon you - if any of the management boys read this they might actually try it; and with the state of the regulator (or at least how it appears to be) they well may allow it to slip through!
Shame, shame, shame...
I hope REX pursue it and I hope it will be the f**kup I expect it to be.
KRUSTY: at least they can claim the "cadet" costs on tax, maybe harder if they coughed up extra T&C's for the experienced crewsto get a bigger deduction.
What - a business being dictated to by beancounters?? Hush thy mouth!
) and are willing to invest $$$ (also cannot knock that so another .)The point missed is that, like all things airline related, the the game has changed - for cadets as well as real (hey, I mean those have taken another approach rather than "Scientology Airline 101"
) airline pilots, not just those with ghost seniority numbers. Loyalty to my profession remains but loyalty to any airline died on 13.9.01; the idea of joining any airline and remaining is (or should be) well in the past, especially if you "pay" for your airline gig (the admitted upside is that it is YOUR endorsement so if/whenever you decide to look at options there can NEVER be any acrimony from management; "they reap what they sow" would be apt!!
)Unless they tie up any cadet scheme in reams of legalese they will lose heaps of those who they pay for.
If they DO try to tie it up in legalese then more fool those who sign up.
Krusty's final point extremely valid; they still haven't addressed the important concept (at least IMHO) of having experienced pilots to look after/train the less experienced.
Air Ace - assuming you are talking tongue-in-cheek when talking about the successful Qantas scheme in the 60's and 70's, infers you think the 80's and 90's scheme leave something to be desired (sniff,sniff!
)Prey tell - you wouldn't be a 60's/70's cadet by any chance??
Still get the S/O to carry your bags??
Jet-A-Knight shame upon you - if any of the management boys read this they might actually try it; and with the state of the regulator (or at least how it appears to be) they well may allow it to slip through!
Shame, shame, shame...
I hope REX pursue it and I hope it will be the f**kup I expect it to be.
KRUSTY: at least they can claim the "cadet" costs on tax, maybe harder if they coughed up extra T&C's for the experienced crewsto get a bigger deduction.
What - a business being dictated to by beancounters?? Hush thy mouth!
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Jet-A-Knight shame upon you - if any of the management boys read this they might actually try it; and with the state of the regulator (or at least how it appears to be) they well may allow it to slip through!
Shame, shame, shame...
Shame, shame, shame...
That being that in my opinion, putting low time, inexperienced co-pilots into the RHS of a transport aircraft is more dangereuse (that's French you know!) and adding more workload to a skipper, than if the skipper had to fly the bird and do it all themselves, without having one eye on the mission and terrain, and the other on the 'graduate' of the magenta kindergarten with the other.
Now, I have been told that a senior/management pilot at said comapny has said, and I quote (albeit, secondhand info):
" Experience means nothing".
Now, for the double-jeopardy special - did that quote actually pass through anyone's lips - and were they on candid camera??
As an addendum, the issue of more experienced pilots training the inexperienced.........the problem you have now, is that once upon a time, a pilot would have (generally) worked their way up the GA food chain, (generally) had gotten a good amount of command time under their belt, (generally) learnt to 'operate', gone into the regional with 2000+ hrs under their belt, and (generally) made the transition from bugsmasher to regional airliner (generally) successfully.
NOW, the situation is that pilots with low time, and (generally) no idea are getting into these lines, and have to be taught alot of the basics (including IFR 101 stuff) on the line.
To most guys with any experience, this equates to too much brain damage and to (loosely) quote a famous song ' the money they make won't buy their youth again' - so they do not volunteer to become training or check captains.
And do you blame them?
*It is said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit
'Times they are a changing' as Mr Dylan said, but to answer your last post, you can make it without coming top of the class. I was more interested in girls and waves than school, but have done what I consider to be the best jobs in GA, also made it as a military pilot, and now drive a 777 around the world. Ripe old age of 38, and -shock/horror - certainly didn't come above the 55th percentile at high school, except in English. Motivation, determination etc can AND do get you a long way! My school teachers/principal and guidance counsellor ALL told me I would NEVER be able to be a pilot. Bottom line is: only people in the industry know how it works and what it takes. I have had a fantastic aviation career so far, and look forward to more! 
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Mr Tos "quote" doesn't leave out the fact of receiving your training at REX for half the price then applying for direct entry at Qantas. That would give REX the sh!ts.
I Agree
I believe this is what many aspiring airline pilots will do. If they can't get into Qantas as a cadet they will do their time at REX and dump them for a major airline once experienced.
With not many people willing to work for peanuts in GA these days REX is going to have serious problems finding/retaining pilots. Especially the ones that can fly in command!
I Agree
I believe this is what many aspiring airline pilots will do. If they can't get into Qantas as a cadet they will do their time at REX and dump them for a major airline once experienced.
With not many people willing to work for peanuts in GA these days REX is going to have serious problems finding/retaining pilots. Especially the ones that can fly in command!
Hey pilotdude,
The QF cadetship is pretty awesome too! Even though you do have to pay everything, you're pretty much guaranteed a job at the end, ex-cadets have told me that since they can remember no one has been robbed of a job opportunity with Qantas - so it is a good way to go to!
The QF cadetship is pretty awesome too! Even though you do have to pay everything, you're pretty much guaranteed a job at the end, ex-cadets have told me that since they can remember no one has been robbed of a job opportunity with Qantas - so it is a good way to go to!
At this very moment i am going to go to uni and do a Batchelor of Business (Management), Aviation or Journalism or something similar, havent decided which one just yet
Even if i am to go to uni, i will go do a graduate job for 2-3 years, save up get a nice big loan and finish my CPL/ATPL off and head back up this way. At the moment im putting $100 bucks a week away for flight training so hopefully some of that will help me get through some lessons and PPL while @ uni if i dont do the aviation degree.
Think i might apply for this though, the worst they can say is no.
Also i would hope that REX would also take Country/Regional applicants
before its city counterparts, bit disapointing if it wasnt to do that.
But still interested if they want 0 hours? or someone who has already done a PPL, did it say in the AD? i did try to get an Australian here today but they are like hens teeth.
Feel better i got that off my chest
Cheers
Ps. my apologies for my life story above!, makes more sense to me when i write it out!
Also guys,
Ive decided im going to apply for this thing and see how we go! probaly not far but you never know........
Also what do you address in an aviation related cover letter? what do they want to hear?
At the moment its:
Who i am
Education
Current job
Why i want to be a pilot
Career ambitions
Suck up about living in the country and understanding how much an air service means etc and how i want to be part of that etc.
Is that suitable for this kind of thing?
Do i only need to send a resume and cover letter, certs etc. Anything else they might like to see, like medical certs etc?
Cheers
For those in the know PM's are much appreciated with any info you can give!
Ive decided im going to apply for this thing and see how we go! probaly not far but you never know........
Also what do you address in an aviation related cover letter? what do they want to hear?
At the moment its:
Who i am
Education
Current job
Why i want to be a pilot
Career ambitions
Suck up about living in the country and understanding how much an air service means etc and how i want to be part of that etc.
Is that suitable for this kind of thing?
Do i only need to send a resume and cover letter, certs etc. Anything else they might like to see, like medical certs etc?
Cheers
For those in the know PM's are much appreciated with any info you can give!
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pilotdude,
I can understand what you mean, however if you still want to give it a shot QF cadets now offer fee help or HECS, but the names for these have changed.
Cleared to land,
That is a VERY interesting story, I wonder what your school principle was saying when he found out you became a pilot!
I can understand what you mean, however if you still want to give it a shot QF cadets now offer fee help or HECS, but the names for these have changed.
Cleared to land,
That is a VERY interesting story, I wonder what your school principle was saying when he found out you became a pilot!
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Appart from Wizofoz,the rest need to prehaps move with the times(Australia that is).
Times are changing(about time),they have changed elsewhere in the world a good long time ago.
Times are changing(about time),they have changed elsewhere in the world a good long time ago.
As has been proven overseas, there is nothing wrong with cadet programs as long as the company has solid in-house training (post CPL) in place. The real problems will begin when a fresh CPL is more or less 'thrown' into a larger aircraft without much further training other than a type rating.
Until now REX has had the luxury of employing GA pilots with years of command experience. Will the company be able to handle the extra training, etc., required to bring fresh CPLs up to speed in a safe manner?
Until now REX has had the luxury of employing GA pilots with years of command experience. Will the company be able to handle the extra training, etc., required to bring fresh CPLs up to speed in a safe manner?
This is a real Australian thing about "you gotta have thousands of hours before you can fly a turbo prop or jet".
Just go and have a look at Europe, those guys are pissed off if their first job is on a turbo prop, in fact its not uncommon to have a jet command with around 1500hrs total time.
If the training is programmed around the type of operation that they will fly in I'm sure they will perform quite well.
Having said all of that I'm glad I did my 5000 odd hours in GA and gained some very valuable experience along the way.
The airlines really need to look at the crewing issue and this is certainly one of those ways. Good luck!!
Just go and have a look at Europe, those guys are pissed off if their first job is on a turbo prop, in fact its not uncommon to have a jet command with around 1500hrs total time.
If the training is programmed around the type of operation that they will fly in I'm sure they will perform quite well.
Having said all of that I'm glad I did my 5000 odd hours in GA and gained some very valuable experience along the way.
The airlines really need to look at the crewing issue and this is certainly one of those ways.
Good luck!!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Break Right,
Not quite. It's not usual to have guys with 3000 hours get a jet command. Chances are, they started with 250 hours in the RHS of said jet.
You are right when you say that they feel ripped off if they have to fly a turboprop first. There's an anomaly here that says you need 700 hours experience before you can do twin IFR charter etc.
So to get a Chieftain job, you need more hours than to get a jet job.
Not quite. It's not usual to have guys with 3000 hours get a jet command. Chances are, they started with 250 hours in the RHS of said jet.
You are right when you say that they feel ripped off if they have to fly a turboprop first. There's an anomaly here that says you need 700 hours experience before you can do twin IFR charter etc.
So to get a Chieftain job, you need more hours than to get a jet job.
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Well, which is harder to fly? Single pilot IFR or multi-crew IFR aided with flight management computers?
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It's a small issue, but I feel the wording of the ad is important.They are calling for "expressions of interest", NOT "applications". There is a big difference.
"Expressions of interest" are just that, an expression of interest for positions that MIGHT become available.If a position then subsequently becomes available, you are then invited to apply.Also, there is no mention of "Contact Joe Bloggs for an information package" ,minimum requirements or an address to send CVs, as asked of applicants for engineering jobs in the same ad.
My instinct is that this is just an idea at this stage.How well advanced it is, is another question altogether.Just my thoughts.
"Expressions of interest" are just that, an expression of interest for positions that MIGHT become available.If a position then subsequently becomes available, you are then invited to apply.Also, there is no mention of "Contact Joe Bloggs for an information package" ,minimum requirements or an address to send CVs, as asked of applicants for engineering jobs in the same ad.
My instinct is that this is just an idea at this stage.How well advanced it is, is another question altogether.Just my thoughts.
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Whoops! posted in the wrong REX cadet thread!
This is what I posted on the other thread:
"It's a small issue, but I feel the wording of the ad is important.They are calling for "expressions of interest", NOT "applications". There is a big difference.
"Expressions of interest" are just that, an expression of interest for positions that MIGHT become available.If a position then subsequently becomes available, you are then invited to apply.Also, there is no mention of "Contact Joe Bloggs for an information package" ,minimum requirements or an address to send CVs, as asked of applicants for engineering jobs in the same ad.
My instinct is that this is just an idea at this stage.How well advanced it is, is another question altogether.Just my thoughts."
At most, address what is asked in the ad and outline how you meet:
"*HSC (or equivalent) with satisfactory passes in Maths and English
*Permanent Australian Resident"
Another thing that occurs to me in the ad is that they DON"T say half the cost will be covered, but that "UP TO half the fees" will be covered.Does this mean that the amount of the scolarship has not yet been decided, or will vary from individual to individual?
Core and non core promises perhaps?
Having said all that, I have expressed interest!
This is what I posted on the other thread:
"It's a small issue, but I feel the wording of the ad is important.They are calling for "expressions of interest", NOT "applications". There is a big difference.
"Expressions of interest" are just that, an expression of interest for positions that MIGHT become available.If a position then subsequently becomes available, you are then invited to apply.Also, there is no mention of "Contact Joe Bloggs for an information package" ,minimum requirements or an address to send CVs, as asked of applicants for engineering jobs in the same ad.
My instinct is that this is just an idea at this stage.How well advanced it is, is another question altogether.Just my thoughts."
At most, address what is asked in the ad and outline how you meet:
"*HSC (or equivalent) with satisfactory passes in Maths and English
*Permanent Australian Resident"
Another thing that occurs to me in the ad is that they DON"T say half the cost will be covered, but that "UP TO half the fees" will be covered.Does this mean that the amount of the scolarship has not yet been decided, or will vary from individual to individual?
Core and non core promises perhaps?
Having said all that, I have expressed interest!
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So if REX came back and told the cadets this program will be going ahead on the condition the partial sponsorship is dependant on agreeing to work for a lower pay rate say only 25k year. Will cadets still be willing to work for such low amounts of money compared to if they do their time in GA gaining command time and enter on the 40k that REX offers now?
I wonder how it is all going to work? Nothing is free! There will be a catch somewhere in the contract you sign!
I wonder how it is all going to work? Nothing is free! There will be a catch somewhere in the contract you sign!
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A mate of mine just joined a "traineeship" at a major gas company up here and its a 2 year program with everything paid for but you have to give 5 years service otherwise you will be accountable to pay for all your training and everything the company has shelled out for you if you leave early. Many apprenticeships are now doing this as it allows them to retain the staff, because they are like pilots leaving in droves.
Re the QF program, im not entitled to HECS as im a Kiwi, ive lived in Aussie for several years but im looking at becoming an Aussie citizen soon. So im going to go to immigration when im in Perth at the end of the week.
All through school teachers etc said you have to be as smart as a doctor and get the highest grades etc etc otherwise you wont be a ilot, what a load of
.
But defintley would like to know more about the program though, at this stage as people have said it only sounds like an idea as theres nothing on their website and no info.
Cheers
Re the QF program, im not entitled to HECS as im a Kiwi
, ive lived in Aussie for several years but im looking at becoming an Aussie citizen soon. So im going to go to immigration when im in Perth at the end of the week.All through school teachers etc said you have to be as smart as a doctor and get the highest grades etc etc otherwise you wont be a ilot, what a load of
.But defintley would like to know more about the program though, at this stage as people have said it only sounds like an idea as theres nothing on their website and no info.
Cheers
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I think people need to accept the change thats happening in Australia.
Good luck to all the kids about to embark on a career in aviation in Australia. Its going to be much easier to get to where you wanna go compared to 5 or 10 years ago.
People are always going to bitch and whine becauses they had to endure the hard yards when they are now seeing that kids coming into aviation are going to get an 'easy run'.
Just wake up to the times. Australia has always been one of the hardest places in the world to establish a successful aviation career, times have changed though...........
As for low-time pilots filling the seats of bigger and bigger aircraft, we all know that Europe has been doing that for quite some time now, with success. Given the right degree of training theres no reason why it cant work here in oz. Just finding the people to train guys is the problem
Good luck to all the kids about to embark on a career in aviation in Australia. Its going to be much easier to get to where you wanna go compared to 5 or 10 years ago.
People are always going to bitch and whine becauses they had to endure the hard yards when they are now seeing that kids coming into aviation are going to get an 'easy run'.
Just wake up to the times. Australia has always been one of the hardest places in the world to establish a successful aviation career, times have changed though...........
As for low-time pilots filling the seats of bigger and bigger aircraft, we all know that Europe has been doing that for quite some time now, with success. Given the right degree of training theres no reason why it cant work here in oz. Just finding the people to train guys is the problem
Gooose
What we are seeing now is all part of the economic cyclic. Australia went through exactly the same shortage of pilots in the sixties. It all boils down to supply and demand. At the moment supply is short and demand is high. It can just as easily turn around with an economic downturn which, by the way will happen. It’s simple economics really. Nothing has changed at all.
What we are seeing now is all part of the economic cyclic. Australia went through exactly the same shortage of pilots in the sixties. It all boils down to supply and demand. At the moment supply is short and demand is high. It can just as easily turn around with an economic downturn which, by the way will happen. It’s simple economics really. Nothing has changed at all.