Merged: REX to employ Cadets
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quote "Why would they choose to put fresh CPL holders in the SAAB with barely any cmd experience over well qualified pilots"
Here is the thing the cadets are not expected to make command decisions. This will be learned over time. Their role is to assist the Captain. They are expected to work as a team. Most work places are like this and eventually they will get a chance to prove their leadership skills.
As for REX not employing exisiting pilots with thousands of hours experience. It doesn't matter how good a pilot you are (even in the so called pilot shortage) if you can't demonstrate effective communication skills and the personality traits they are looking for in the interview you better stay out in the bush!
Hours are just a formality. They wan't to know what you are really like to be around!
I really thought professional pilots would know all about this? I guess they didn't teach you all this at flying school all those many years ago!
Modern Aviation isn't all about Stick & rudder flying and making solo command decisions.
Here is the thing the cadets are not expected to make command decisions. This will be learned over time. Their role is to assist the Captain. They are expected to work as a team. Most work places are like this and eventually they will get a chance to prove their leadership skills.
As for REX not employing exisiting pilots with thousands of hours experience. It doesn't matter how good a pilot you are (even in the so called pilot shortage) if you can't demonstrate effective communication skills and the personality traits they are looking for in the interview you better stay out in the bush!
Hours are just a formality. They wan't to know what you are really like to be around!
I really thought professional pilots would know all about this? I guess they didn't teach you all this at flying school all those many years ago!
Modern Aviation isn't all about Stick & rudder flying and making solo command decisions.
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You're really starting to get painful now, Tintin.
How much 'Modern Aviation' experience do you really have that you're telling everyone how to suck eggs?
Why don't you go out and play on the road - now there's a good boy.
How much 'Modern Aviation' experience do you really have that you're telling everyone how to suck eggs?
Why don't you go out and play on the road - now there's a good boy.
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Aviation has always been about flying.
Whilst type of personality is one part of the equation. The bottom line is to be EFFECTIVE and this comes from a solid amount of operational experience. This experience allows a crew member to be effective and thus contribute to a safe flying operation. Experience cannot be replicated in a bloody simulator.
Always treat with a dose of scepticism someone purporting to represent the "new and modern" way as it is often the case, they lack the experience to know the value of experience
Whilst type of personality is one part of the equation. The bottom line is to be EFFECTIVE and this comes from a solid amount of operational experience. This experience allows a crew member to be effective and thus contribute to a safe flying operation. Experience cannot be replicated in a bloody simulator.
Always treat with a dose of scepticism someone purporting to represent the "new and modern" way as it is often the case, they lack the experience to know the value of experience
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TinTin
You a di%$head mate.....
The skills learned over many years in GA flying everthing from 172 to a c500 only prepares you for a long and successful career flying jets...
I went from GA to REX and now onto a jet and the experience I gained along the way was invaluable...
If you think some snotty nose little ****** can jump into the left seat of a Saab or Jet after 1 year you are sadly mistaken...and if they did I would not put my family on board!!
In this industry experience counts for everything and the way companys like rex are going it wont be long until they have a/c parked or one in the side of a hill!!
You a di%$head mate.....
The skills learned over many years in GA flying everthing from 172 to a c500 only prepares you for a long and successful career flying jets...
I went from GA to REX and now onto a jet and the experience I gained along the way was invaluable...
If you think some snotty nose little ****** can jump into the left seat of a Saab or Jet after 1 year you are sadly mistaken...and if they did I would not put my family on board!!
In this industry experience counts for everything and the way companys like rex are going it wont be long until they have a/c parked or one in the side of a hill!!
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Experts
Perhaps you should check these links out on what makes an expert, the answer, is surprise surprise, EXPERIENCE & PRACTICE.
Source: Wikipedia
or
Erricson
I guess the ultimate test is who would you have operate on your testicles, the master or the apprentice? Nuff said.
Many accounts of the development of expertise emphasise that it comes about though long periods of deliberate practice. In many domains of expertise estimates of 10 years experience or 10,000 hours
or
Erricson
I guess the ultimate test is who would you have operate on your testicles, the master or the apprentice? Nuff said.
Kavorka,
hope you're not in QF, otherwise in a few years you might find yourself sitting up the front of a jet with a 'snotty nosed little ****** on your left side.
Thats the way the industry is going, like it or hate it, cadet programs are here to stay. From my own personal experiences, I have not come across any cadets that were as described above. All were competent aviators with sound decision making skills. Yes, experience is invaluable, but the cadets were picked for a reason. I believe the line is 'we are not recruiting future SO's, but future captains'.
Hopefully REX's recruiting philosophy and selection will apply the same reasoning. (I do get the feeling however that they may be using it as a short term fix if management believes their desk will be flooded with applications again......)
Happy flying
hope you're not in QF, otherwise in a few years you might find yourself sitting up the front of a jet with a 'snotty nosed little ****** on your left side.
Thats the way the industry is going, like it or hate it, cadet programs are here to stay. From my own personal experiences, I have not come across any cadets that were as described above. All were competent aviators with sound decision making skills. Yes, experience is invaluable, but the cadets were picked for a reason. I believe the line is 'we are not recruiting future SO's, but future captains'.
Hopefully REX's recruiting philosophy and selection will apply the same reasoning. (I do get the feeling however that they may be using it as a short term fix if management believes their desk will be flooded with applications again......)
Happy flying
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cloudsurf..
I doubt it..they would have displace me from the left seat first.....
After many years of instruction I can tell you there is no subsitute for experience.......
Only a cadet would try and make a statement against this!!!
However..I'm sure there are plenty of cadets that are great pilots in QF....
but......and it's a big but.......they did not have to make the FINAL decision for (what is it at the QF at the moment)...15+ years to command.....enough said!!!
I doubt it..they would have displace me from the left seat first.....
After many years of instruction I can tell you there is no subsitute for experience.......
Only a cadet would try and make a statement against this!!!
However..I'm sure there are plenty of cadets that are great pilots in QF....
but......and it's a big but.......they did not have to make the FINAL decision for (what is it at the QF at the moment)...15+ years to command.....enough said!!!
Kavorka,
fair enough, i got the impression from some other posts/threads that you had only just left REX, but happy to stand corrected. Was referring to the fact that anyone who joins QF at the moment will be moving down the seniority list as cadets come off industry placement, and will no doubt find themselves flying as FO to them one day. (or thats the way it is for the moment.....who knows what the future holds........)
fair enough, i got the impression from some other posts/threads that you had only just left REX, but happy to stand corrected. Was referring to the fact that anyone who joins QF at the moment will be moving down the seniority list as cadets come off industry placement, and will no doubt find themselves flying as FO to them one day. (or thats the way it is for the moment.....who knows what the future holds........)
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TINTIN25,
You are full of Sh!t.
You claim to be an instructor in GA but I will remind you (again), just 16 days ago, you posted on another thread asking about doing your instructor rating at certain flying school.
Honesty probably helps too.
Hopefully the bag is shi!tproof to keep the mess to a minimum.
You are full of Sh!t.
You claim to be an instructor in GA but I will remind you (again), just 16 days ago, you posted on another thread asking about doing your instructor rating at certain flying school.
Hours are just a formality. They wan't to know what you are really like to be around!
Who has plenty more lectures in his bag of tricks!
Last edited by SmokingHole; 27th Sep 2007 at 14:03. Reason: couldn't see the grogan for the turds
Its pretty easy to think that if things are done in a different way to the way you did it its all wrong. In the bad old days, you paid ya money, got ya ticket and went north to defy death in some clapped out piece of cr@p and got paid nothing. Now, there is an offer to help out with paying for the ticket, and a job offer at the end, and its got to be wrong.
RAAFies have been putting low houred fellas in right and left hand seats for years. Airlines all around the world are doing it, and have been doing it for years. And it seems to work. And b@gga me, they seem to pay these fellas a whole lot more in Europe as well.
Perhaps you don't need thousands of hours in a 210 to be able to fly a small turbo-prop or jet....who would have guessed.
The more jobs the better. About time there was some good news in Oz aviation.
Don
RAAFies have been putting low houred fellas in right and left hand seats for years. Airlines all around the world are doing it, and have been doing it for years. And it seems to work. And b@gga me, they seem to pay these fellas a whole lot more in Europe as well.
Perhaps you don't need thousands of hours in a 210 to be able to fly a small turbo-prop or jet....who would have guessed.
The more jobs the better. About time there was some good news in Oz aviation.
Don
Seasonally Adjusted
TinTin, SmokingHole asks a valid question. Are you an instructor or do you even work in GA?
You said this a few pages back...
If you're not an instructor then who are your students?
You said this a few pages back...
Well working in GA is like playing a political game. I would never show any negativity to my boss or students as I know this would hinder my future employment prospects in aviation.
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Tintin the troll?
TINTIN may actually be a reporter from Belgium stirring up the local Australian aviation scene!
Tintin, Captain Haddock and Snowy are looking for you...
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Look...just to give you guys a bit of perspective....
4000hrs and 2000hrs jet/on type is the magic number for a jet command in a lot of places in Europe.
That gives a cadet around 5 years give or take of aviating in various forms to learn their trade.
At a pinch, guys get upgraded at 3500hrs, and yet there aren't many airliners falling out of the sky over here.
On turboprops you can cut this by around a third, so 2500-3000hr's with 1000on type is generally the norm.
If it happens here, there is NO real reason why it can't happen there.
A non cadet speaking..who used to take a dim view of these 250hr wonders.
4000hrs and 2000hrs jet/on type is the magic number for a jet command in a lot of places in Europe.
That gives a cadet around 5 years give or take of aviating in various forms to learn their trade.
At a pinch, guys get upgraded at 3500hrs, and yet there aren't many airliners falling out of the sky over here.
On turboprops you can cut this by around a third, so 2500-3000hr's with 1000on type is generally the norm.
If it happens here, there is NO real reason why it can't happen there.
A non cadet speaking..who used to take a dim view of these 250hr wonders.
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RAAFies have been putting low houred fellas in right and left hand seats for years.
I'd be interested in the percentages of pass/fail.
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Tintin does not have to justify what he does on a rummor network! Things could be true and things could be false. If you are taking things too seriously in prrune it is time to spend less time online.
What I do know is most of you experienced pilots are reluctant to embrace change in the industry. REX may have been been too late in offering more coin for their captains and implementing a system to generate pilots but at least they are trying something with this cadet program even if it fails like many of you say it will!
What I do know is most of you experienced pilots are reluctant to embrace change in the industry. REX may have been been too late in offering more coin for their captains and implementing a system to generate pilots but at least they are trying something with this cadet program even if it fails like many of you say it will!
Seasonally Adjusted
Now TinTin is referring to himself in the third person.
TinTin, if you look back through my posts you will soon realise that I cannot be accused of taking the Pprune rummor (sic) network too seriously.
What I do find nauseating is listening to clowns with no credibility telling all the 'experienced pilots' out there how it is in the aviation world.
ABX, TinTin isn't a troll, even a troll displays some level of intellect and wit.
TinTin, if you look back through my posts you will soon realise that I cannot be accused of taking the Pprune rummor (sic) network too seriously.
What I do find nauseating is listening to clowns with no credibility telling all the 'experienced pilots' out there how it is in the aviation world.
ABX, TinTin isn't a troll, even a troll displays some level of intellect and wit.