Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations

[alpine57]

correction should read "i undestand MM will only eat them " etc etc

[mrpaxing]

under the precedent of

job security. finally MM comes good with the long awaited dispensation on the A330-200. Thanks MM for another excuse. i love the bit where he says until the next generation aircrafts arrive. and that would be.......2012 onwards????????? once again under the "job security scarrism" we have to lower our conditions. were does it guarantee job growths? But we wont look at any associated fatigue issues. thanks MM we know you wont be doing those flights

[twiggs]

So then mrpaxing, what is the alternative?

Here is the newsletter

15 November 2007
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants

A330-200 DISPENSATION

BACKGROUND

Qantas is going to fly the A330-200 on SYD-BOM-SYD and AKL-LAX-AKL sectors from February/March 2008. The A330-200 used by Qantas has not been built with underfloor crew rest.

Some of these sectors will be planned in excess of 14 hours. Qantas has asked the FAAA for dispensation (because there is no horizontal crew rest) so that it can use Long Haul crew on these sectors, for a period from March 2008 until approximately December 2008 for the AKL-LAX-AKL sectors and from February 2008 until the new generation of aircraft arrive for the SYD-BOM-SYD sectors.

DECISION

The FAAA has agreed to the Dispensation request.

RATIONALE FOR DECISION

We are currently in EBA negotiations which will decide the future of Long Haul. At recent membership meetings we indicated our primary goal is to secure work for Long Haul crew, so that there will be no redundancies in Long Haul and in a broader sense, ensure the protection of job security in Long Haul, by making sensible and rational decisions, some of which are often difficult.

Qantas has other options (crew) who will do the work if we refuse. A refusal will also signal to Qantas an inability of Long Haul crew to be flexible. This will lead to a diversion of work to other cabin crew within the Qantas Group and/or an increase in overseas base numbers and the commencement of promotions in overseas bases. This in turn means surplus crew in Long Haul and consequently would threaten our collective job security.

We already have a surplus situation in Long Haul, and a refusal to do this work will only make the situation worse, particularly for a base like Brisbane where the surplus is most apparent. The AKL-LAX-AKL dispensation frees up 747 aircraft to be used for BNE-LAX-BNE.

More generally, my announcement earlier this week of extra crewing is only possible if we are flexible.

DETAILS OF DISPENSATION

AKL-LAX-AKL

1. For A330-200 from March 2008 to December 2008.
2. Crew rest will comprise a space of six economy seats (currently four) modified to four improved curtained crew rest seats. The pitch will be 48 inches and a recline of 7.5 inches. There will also be one high comfort seat.
3. Home Transport will be provided both ways after operating any pattern containing AKL-LAX or LAX-AKL (PLANNED OR UNPLANNED).
4. Long Range provisions apply

SYD-BOM-SYD

1. For A330-200 from February 2008 until new generation aircraft arrives.
2. Crew rest will comprise a space of six economy seats (currently four) modified to four improved curtained crew rest seats. The pitch will be 48 inches and a recline of 7.5 inches. There will also be one high comfort seat.
3. Crew will be provided with an additional one (1) day of MBT/MPG in the construction of Mumbai patterns in addition to the normal prescribed rest periods.
4. Home Transport will be provided both ways after operating any pattern containing SYD-BOM or BOM-SYD (PLANNED OR UNPLANNED).
5. Long Range provisions apply.

I believe most thinking crew will appreciate the importance of securing growth and thereby securing a viable future for us all. I clearly enunciated how crucial it is to secure work at the recent FAAA membership meetings. Lack of work means excess crew, this in turn will ultimately lead to compulsory redundancy.

I ask that you see this initiative in the context of securing work and hence security for YOUR job.

I also ask members to await the outcome of the EBA negotiations, at which point, the big picture will become obvious to all.

[lowerlobe]

To be fair to the FAAA the timing of this request literally catches the union between the proverbial rock and and a hard place.

I agree that if they denied the dispensation to the company then it would definitely put added pressure on negotiations.

The company would have almost certainly used it to show the reluctance of L/H to be flexible.

Having said that,the company should at the very least acknowledge the dispensation in a concrete way.

This could be in a number of forms but it should be recognised during the negotiations.

A simple thankyou in a newsletter from the company to all L/H crew would certainly not hurt either.

If the dispensation is for such a considerable length of time such as 2012 then it is not out of the question that the company show some faith as well and guarantee that L/H will operate the A 380......

[mrpaxing]

i will give MM

the opportunity to present " the outcome of the EBA negotiations, at which point, the big picture will become obvious to all. "

[lowerlobe]

mrpaxing..........You did raise an important issue and that is fatigue.The reason that horizontal crew rest was established in the first place is because of the fatigue on long flights.

The tech crew believe in it as do most people but there is the problem of no horizontal crew rest fitted to this aircraft which the 'intelligentsia' decided was not needed even though this aircraft has a longer range than the 300.

That is why this dispensation needs to be recognised by the company in the EBA negotiations.

MM has said as much with his request for crew to be patient until the big picture is there for all to see.

The ball now is well and truly in MM's court.......

[twiggs]

And the alternative is...., Midnight-63?

No vote from membership is required to approve a dispensation.
A vote was done for the JFK shuttle dispensation but was not necessary.

[lowerlobe]

A vote was done for the JFK shuttle dispensation but was not necessary.

........Was that legally or morally?

[cartexchange]

Well guys I told you so on this forum approximately 3 weeks ago that this deal had been done.
MM you really are a disappointment, I hope you come out of your self imposed retirement and do at least 3 of these trips per roster.
By the way what kind of crew rest did the TEchies get out of this, I bet they got business class seats or something better.
I wish the FAAA would stop this "other crew will do this flying" guess what FAAA pussies they wont, why do you think that the BOM trips came back to long haul?, its because the domestics kept on going sick, that is why the SHA and the PEK have not returned to us.
As as far as transport goes! what happens if you live on the Central or South coast or out West, its well within driving range but out of transport range.
What a farking sellout, this will go down in history of long haul flying as the biggest sell out, giving way what such conditions!!!!!!!!!!!no other first world airline would do it.
The FAAA have really lost it............out of touch.........

[twiggs]

Cartexchange, do you understand that this is just a route specific dispensation, we are not giving away any conditions?
This has not something that has been negotiated for the EBA but may help us negotiate a better deal in the EBA.

As far as the BOM trips go, the only long-range sector without horizontal rest will be SYD-BOM.
This sector is a daylight sector so I think the need for horizontal rest is far less than the usual night sectors.
The return is the same as being operated presently which is not long-range.

As for AKL-LAX-AKL, the only sector that is long-range is LAX-AKL and as this is a night sector, will be the only sector out of 4 that the need for horizontal rest will be missed.

[surfside6]

Cartexchange...Genius...Not!!

What would you have done..?antagonize those that you are negotiating with?
The deal has time limitations
Some of these trips will be very high hour trips.
Look at the seniority of the JFK shuttles.
Wait until the EBA is negotiated and then shoot your loud mouth off.
Also have a look at the route codes that have become available to us.
Peking is back and other longer trips have become available.
How about saying something positive for a change and get rid of the Chicken Little mentality
AKL/LAX or BOM are trips that you wouldnt do any way.
So Why Whinge!
I hear the sound of your twisted sister approaching.What's her name again....ahhh yes.... RedTbar

[equity38]

I agree surfside.

Look at the extra trips that have suddenly appeared in our Bid Book and look at the announcement by the FAAA, which Qantas has confirmed regarding the extra crewing (achieved) because of the negotiations.

C artexchange solution is to just say NO... bugger the consequences.. bugger if people lose jobs in Long Haul...... he must be senior and obviously feels he would not lose his job.

MM and the FAAA know what they are doing.... i have faith in them as do most crew.

[Shlonghaul]

Look at the extra trips that have suddenly appeared in our Bid Book and look at the announcement by the FAAA, which Qantas has confirmed regarding the extra crewing (achieved) because of the negotiations.

Sounds like a government offering the sweetener of tax cuts before an election then belting the electorate over the head when they're voted back in

A vote was done for the JFK shuttle dispensation but was not necessary.

I thought a vote had to be put to the members after two consecutive bid periods of dispensation.

Look at the seniority of the JFK shuttles.

That's because there are no other decent long high hour trips in the book. We lost the majority of LHR trips to the London basing with the remaining one being a very arduous one especially the LHR/SIN sector. The FRA trip is ok but is an exhausting one with only one night in SIN southbound instead of the two we had for years and years. So with the JFK a high hour trip and with at least two nights in LAX each slip and home transport it suddenly became the best long trip available.

So what's the next "dispensation" AKL-LAX-AKL shuttle?!!

[surfside6]

Rubbish

Its all about money.
Why arent 9 day NRT trips or FRA trips or LHR trips popular with senior crew?.
Some of you guys would sell your maiden aunts for an extra sheckel and still complain.
You lot ride the wave while the rest of us arent even in the pipeline.
Want some high hour trips?Do some PER day trips.
!5 or 16 will fill your hours requirement.

[Shlonghaul]

Nice try surfsidesux

Why arent 9 day NRT trips or FRA trips or LHR trips popular with senior crew?.

Perhaps it's because long NRTs are not daily, 400s are not used so no horizontal crew rest but you can have the pleasure of freezing your @rse off in the 330s crew rest whilst being bumped all night as the pax search for the toilets. Language speakers, BKK & AKL crew pre-allocated to the pattern. Yeah perhaps that's the reason(s) why!!

Its all about money.

Did you get that from your hero Dixon?

PS> Riding the wave and loving it

I hear the sound of your twisted sister approaching.What's her name again....ahhh yes.... RedTbar

Over to you RedTbar!!

[alpine57]

FAAA QUOTE "I believe most thinking crew will appreciate the importance of securing growth and thereby securing a viable future for us all. I clearly enunciated how crucial it is to secure work at the recent FAAA membership meetings. Lack of work means excess crew, this in turn will ultimately lead to compulsory redundancy.

I ask that you see this initiative in the context of securing work and hence security for YOUR job.

I also ask members to await the outcome of the EBA negotiations, at which point, the big picture will become obvious to all. "

Don't waste your breath surfside, i think the FAAA hit the nail on the head when MM talked about "most thinking crew". THE TROUBLE IS THAT PEOPLE LIKE SCHLONGHAUL AND CARTEXCHANGE DO NOT FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF "THINKING CREW".

Only saving grace is that they form part of the looney minority.

[Shlonghaul]

With impeccable timing in comes the numbers stooge with a pathetic impotent put down.

Time will tell who's the looney minority and who's the thinking crew.

[stubby jumbo]

My sources tell me that there is another pre EBA dispensation -

"DEAL OR NO DEAL"

................coming our way.

TBA over the next week or so. Could it be a new "regional" pattern ???

Time for a muf fin.

[Guardian1]

Indeed it will, Schlonghaul, but rest assured you will not fall into the thinking category, nor will your mates who were thrown out ny the membership in humiliation in 2003/2004.

You can be confident of that.

[cartexchange]

the FAAA goon squad out in force!
traitors to the cause!
all you do is insult anyone that has a differing view!
the problem is that I will have to do those BOM and AKL sectors, the goons in the FAAA bunker will be comfortable eating their doughnuts every morning, shame on you!
Twiggs its become obvious to me that you don't fly, as AKL LAX is a night sector, we leave at 1730 and arrive at 1045 the next morning!!!!!!!
Its incredible the goons in the FAAA know they have made a mistake and wont admit it!
surfside sux, are you serious , AKL LAX AKL have never and will never be sought after trips, its obvious to me you have never done one, they have the highest sick leave after the PER night return.
Shame on you FAAA for allowing this, come on MM come out of your bunker and do one of those trips.
By the way Guardian get it out of your head that I was an ex FAAA official, I have never been one.
Traitors, crew have just been made aware of your latest betrayal.....I helped elect that goon MM to office and supported him during the debacle against GB TW and JB, it was the mistake of my life, I helped a dictator into that position.