End Of Cabin Crew Seniority In Qf Long Haul?
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Managers Perspective..
As usual you have it around the wrong way but I can tell you what the passengers WOULD definitely vote for.
That would be to get rid of management and board members who line their pockets while reducing the service and value the customer (Yes they are customers) get for their money.
As I said the other day,you are symptomatic of the management that pervades Australia.Within the next 20 years Australia will be lucky to have any manufacturing or production capability with the current leadership we are stuck with.
Denial is the fundamental principle of your doctrine.
As usual you have it around the wrong way but I can tell you what the passengers WOULD definitely vote for.
That would be to get rid of management and board members who line their pockets while reducing the service and value the customer (Yes they are customers) get for their money.
As I said the other day,you are symptomatic of the management that pervades Australia.Within the next 20 years Australia will be lucky to have any manufacturing or production capability with the current leadership we are stuck with.
Denial is the fundamental principle of your doctrine.
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When I first started the back to back Jobergs were all crewed by people with less than 2 years experience in the company due to seniority. It was very rare to see someone with more than about 5 years seniority on one of those trips.
Aeroplanes didn't fall out of the sky because of crew inexperience. And the crew inexperience you would have to say was a direct result of seniority.
DEFCON4;
So are you saying those destinations that are crewed back to back by the most junior of people because of seniority are a less safe than those destinations crewed by senior ones? Perhaps we should get some more senior ones to those destinations so they can be deemed safe again.
Aeroplanes didn't fall out of the sky because of crew inexperience. And the crew inexperience you would have to say was a direct result of seniority.
DEFCON4;
Seniority is a recognition of accumulated experience and an ability to identify problems BEFORE they become problems.
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Clarification
It was not my attention to malign any crew member regardless of seniority.
I am sorry that you have chosen to perceive it in this manner.
You have taken four lines out of a twenty line post.
Do you have issue with the rest of it?
These misunderstandings and misconceptions will eventually be our undoing.
I was junior once and did plenty of JoBurgs...and still do them as I find the crews both happy and motivated.
I dont know how long you have been flying but it would have been a very rare event to have all crew...including both the CSM and CSS...flying less than two years.
In the military, no one goes into the field, without someone who has experience.... leading.
Planes fall out of the sky due to technical malfunctions or human error.
To even suggest that they do so due to junior crew you do yourself a great disservice.......not to mention an absolute distortion of my post.
Now ....how long do you intend to stay flying?
The decision you make regarding the seniority based work environment will not only have an affect on your future but also that of others.
Think carefully before you let emotion get in the way of an objective outcome
I am sorry that you have chosen to perceive it in this manner.
You have taken four lines out of a twenty line post.
Do you have issue with the rest of it?
These misunderstandings and misconceptions will eventually be our undoing.
I was junior once and did plenty of JoBurgs...and still do them as I find the crews both happy and motivated.
I dont know how long you have been flying but it would have been a very rare event to have all crew...including both the CSM and CSS...flying less than two years.
In the military, no one goes into the field, without someone who has experience.... leading.
Planes fall out of the sky due to technical malfunctions or human error.
To even suggest that they do so due to junior crew you do yourself a great disservice.......not to mention an absolute distortion of my post.
Now ....how long do you intend to stay flying?
The decision you make regarding the seniority based work environment will not only have an affect on your future but also that of others.
Think carefully before you let emotion get in the way of an objective outcome
Last edited by DEFCON4; 7th Aug 2007 at 12:52.
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Originally Posted by DEFCON4
The decision you make regarding the seniority based work environment will not only have an affect on your future but also that of others.
I am using absolutes in this description, but if 'junior' crew want to do away with the current system in its entirety, then DEFCON4 is right. What will be the effect on our future work environments?
'Junior' crews' frustrations stem from the stagnant recruitment environment, coupled with overseas basings and different airline groups negotiating for our traditional flying. These factors compromise their access to improved bidding outcomes.
For 'senior' crew not to recognise this and accept no changes, would only maintain the status quo in the short term, but ultimately weaken their chances of maintaining it in the long term as disatisfaction brewed.
We need to be respective of each set of wishes and concerns and work towards a conciliatory result. Hopefully this will allow us to control the agenda a little instead of being dictated to by QF.
Last edited by And5678; 7th Aug 2007 at 13:32.
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For the record I have left QF long haul after 7 years of being stuck at the bottom of the pile. No chance to have a life, and in my perspective, there was no real chance of it ever improving.
My point is that if the senior people want to get the support of junior ones in maintaining the current system, they need to recognise that life is tough at the bottom. The old argument of 'you will be senior one day' has well and truly gone past its use by date with many. The other argument that little Johhny will be gone at the end of the year is also a frugile attempt at convincing people. So he gets voted out. How long do you think it will take things to improve? Rudd gets in and things will be different overnight? I think it will take years to change, even when they do get in to government.
When the London base opened, I like everyone hated it. However, at one point I did consider going up there for a change (about a year after it started), but was berated and called a scab by some crew for thinking of it. My point was that it is there now, and it is better to have Aussies crewing the flying rather than foreign nationals. The only positive about going up there would have been the better rostering (not being stuck with the leftovers like here) and a change in scenery. It still does not diminish the fact that the whole situation stinks, but by some going up there, perhaps less annual and long service may have been assigned because there would have been less long haul crew to share the given amount of flying available back here (ie less of a surpluss).
For the record, I ended up not going, but just because I considered the possibility I was given grief by some short sighted people. If no Australian crew went there, would it have been the end of the base? In my opinion No. Not at that stage after it had been going for a year or so.
The same goes for the NY issue. I did not like the fact that things changed like many, but given the choice of the shuttle being crewed by us or Kiwis I expressed my view that it should be crewed by us. Again the cause of ridicule from some. Just my point. It is not by any way saying I supported the whole concept of what was happening. You sometimes have to make choices you may not like simply because you may not like the alternative even more.
Now I work for a corporate jet charter company, still get to fly a couple of times a month, and do other roles. The pay is also similar and overall I am much happier. This allows me more time at home, flexibility in my life to spend time with my husband and to have children. You want everyone to fight for seniority to protect the mothers who need to be home for child care, but in doing so you are asking others to give up the possibility of being able to do the same themselves.
My whole point in wasting time posting on here now? I wish some of you people would realise that there is a growing silent minority who may just become a majority against the seniority system as it stands. If you wish to keep it, you will at least have to offer something to people who are disadvantaged by the system. Be it buckets that limit trips like the tech crew have, or perhaps sharing leave allocation so that once every few years you get a chance to have Christmas off. A small move in that direction will at least offer something for all. The senior can keep the bulk of their advantage, while the junior get something in return.
How many crew have joined the long haul seniority list in the last 5 years? And how many have started flying for QF (ie. bases, casuals, short haul)? What do you think the prospects in the view of junior crew really are? For years everyone has been told not to worry, you will be senior one day, but for most you can only go on what you see and the track record (ie reality) is not great.
If you want to remain united, it is time to show some sympathy towards those who suffer, not constantly berate them as whingers etc. The constant bickering and name calling does nothing but alienate people more. There are always going to be people with a different point of view, and just because you don't agree with them does not make either of you correct.
Otherwise, more junior crew will continue to leave (like myself) further diluting the remaining long haul seniority and numbers. Sad this is happening, but I feel it will only get worse if things don't change.
Anyhow, good luck to you with all of it, just try and fight it united with everyones support rather than fighting each other which to some extent seems to be happening now. Life has changed for me now, so whichever way it goes is not my problem. Perhaps that is why I can stick my head out of the sand and say what many are thinking but are too scared to say in public. Until people come to the realisation that people think like this, the chances of a united fight diminish.
My point is that if the senior people want to get the support of junior ones in maintaining the current system, they need to recognise that life is tough at the bottom. The old argument of 'you will be senior one day' has well and truly gone past its use by date with many. The other argument that little Johhny will be gone at the end of the year is also a frugile attempt at convincing people. So he gets voted out. How long do you think it will take things to improve? Rudd gets in and things will be different overnight? I think it will take years to change, even when they do get in to government.
When the London base opened, I like everyone hated it. However, at one point I did consider going up there for a change (about a year after it started), but was berated and called a scab by some crew for thinking of it. My point was that it is there now, and it is better to have Aussies crewing the flying rather than foreign nationals. The only positive about going up there would have been the better rostering (not being stuck with the leftovers like here) and a change in scenery. It still does not diminish the fact that the whole situation stinks, but by some going up there, perhaps less annual and long service may have been assigned because there would have been less long haul crew to share the given amount of flying available back here (ie less of a surpluss).
For the record, I ended up not going, but just because I considered the possibility I was given grief by some short sighted people. If no Australian crew went there, would it have been the end of the base? In my opinion No. Not at that stage after it had been going for a year or so.
The same goes for the NY issue. I did not like the fact that things changed like many, but given the choice of the shuttle being crewed by us or Kiwis I expressed my view that it should be crewed by us. Again the cause of ridicule from some. Just my point. It is not by any way saying I supported the whole concept of what was happening. You sometimes have to make choices you may not like simply because you may not like the alternative even more.
Now I work for a corporate jet charter company, still get to fly a couple of times a month, and do other roles. The pay is also similar and overall I am much happier. This allows me more time at home, flexibility in my life to spend time with my husband and to have children. You want everyone to fight for seniority to protect the mothers who need to be home for child care, but in doing so you are asking others to give up the possibility of being able to do the same themselves.
My whole point in wasting time posting on here now? I wish some of you people would realise that there is a growing silent minority who may just become a majority against the seniority system as it stands. If you wish to keep it, you will at least have to offer something to people who are disadvantaged by the system. Be it buckets that limit trips like the tech crew have, or perhaps sharing leave allocation so that once every few years you get a chance to have Christmas off. A small move in that direction will at least offer something for all. The senior can keep the bulk of their advantage, while the junior get something in return.
How many crew have joined the long haul seniority list in the last 5 years? And how many have started flying for QF (ie. bases, casuals, short haul)? What do you think the prospects in the view of junior crew really are? For years everyone has been told not to worry, you will be senior one day, but for most you can only go on what you see and the track record (ie reality) is not great.
If you want to remain united, it is time to show some sympathy towards those who suffer, not constantly berate them as whingers etc. The constant bickering and name calling does nothing but alienate people more. There are always going to be people with a different point of view, and just because you don't agree with them does not make either of you correct.
Otherwise, more junior crew will continue to leave (like myself) further diluting the remaining long haul seniority and numbers. Sad this is happening, but I feel it will only get worse if things don't change.
Anyhow, good luck to you with all of it, just try and fight it united with everyones support rather than fighting each other which to some extent seems to be happening now. Life has changed for me now, so whichever way it goes is not my problem. Perhaps that is why I can stick my head out of the sand and say what many are thinking but are too scared to say in public. Until people come to the realisation that people think like this, the chances of a united fight diminish.
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The Alternative To Seniority
Everyone complains about seniority but no one offers a viable alternative.
I have been flying 25 years and have been a CSS for 20 of those years.I have
had little or no control over my life for most of that time.I knew what I was getting into when I obtained promotion.
My wife flies and we have kids.Its been a juggling act but we have managed.The time we have with our kids is far greater than those who work 9 to 5.The destinations are immaterial.Let me tell you JoBurgs are good trips monetarily.
In the airline industry individuals are preoccupied with seniority.I got over it years ago and am happier because of it.
I go to work to earn the bucks and pay the bills.Everything else is secondary.
In any game ,find out what the rules are and make them work for you.
If you cant, like White Pointer,you have a choice
I have been flying 25 years and have been a CSS for 20 of those years.I have
had little or no control over my life for most of that time.I knew what I was getting into when I obtained promotion.
My wife flies and we have kids.Its been a juggling act but we have managed.The time we have with our kids is far greater than those who work 9 to 5.The destinations are immaterial.Let me tell you JoBurgs are good trips monetarily.
In the airline industry individuals are preoccupied with seniority.I got over it years ago and am happier because of it.
I go to work to earn the bucks and pay the bills.Everything else is secondary.
In any game ,find out what the rules are and make them work for you.
If you cant, like White Pointer,you have a choice
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sounds a reasonable argument
but there were other measures qf management could have done so far to improve the system. instant online trip swap comes to mind. this would give junior and senior f/a's the chance to adjust their lives if rosters dont work out. and i dont mean just in one base. it should be done network wide. i believe this would also lift productivity.
this has been mentioned to management on many occassions from various groups. but as usual no one is game enough to make a decision to implement it. needs several committies to assess, reassess, write several business plans, reassess,put up for a vote, run several trials, reassess and depending on the inhouse politicial wind (reassess again) you may get it by late 2030.
i am not in a disimilar position then S6, just less senority. i have been going backwards for years now. can i see any improvments if the bidding system goes? i am yet to be convinced.
this has been mentioned to management on many occassions from various groups. but as usual no one is game enough to make a decision to implement it. needs several committies to assess, reassess, write several business plans, reassess,put up for a vote, run several trials, reassess and depending on the inhouse politicial wind (reassess again) you may get it by late 2030.
i am not in a disimilar position then S6, just less senority. i have been going backwards for years now. can i see any improvments if the bidding system goes? i am yet to be convinced.
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With every story there are two sides.
White pointer tells us to compromise and think of the junior crew and that career progression is a dead duck.
Yet the company are about to get a huge number of aircraft which will require a corresponding increase in crew.
What will happen with the current junior crew in regards to the newly hired crew.Will they then say OK lets forget about seniority and be fair to the 'new junior' crew.....I doubt it.
White Pointer...During the debate about the New York slip the company replaced a number of Australian crew before the vote was taken.
This was obviously a scare tactic and was typical of how the company regards cabin crew.
White Pointer..You made the point that a NO vote would have us lose jobs to the Kiwis and only a YES vote would stop it.
Well,what happened..the slip did not get back in and the kiwi's still did the job.
Australian Cabin Crew did not even get a thanks for trying to improve flexibility.
So what did voting YES get you?....Nothing..Squat..Zilch...
The company during SARS asked us to accept a reduction in crew to help out.
Did the company ever give the crew member back...NO
This seniority issue comes up again simply because the company wants crew to accept the new bid system.The same usual people who suggest we give in are back in town waving the seniority flag yet again.
As far as the LHR base is concerned most of us agree that the basic tenet was to lower or reduce the conditions of Australian based crew.
You only have to look at what LHR trips Australian crews get and the reduced slip and what trips and slips the LHR based crew get.
As far as Australian crew going up there it is a little like collaborating with the enemy.You are helping them out in reducing the conditions of Australian crew.
You can stick your head in the sand and say but I am only one person but in the end everyone who goes up there helps the company out.
The company has never been interested in helping crew out by improving the bid system.The reserve system and demand days are a joke.
You have to understand that any new system will be like a new company super scheme.It will never be as good for the employees as the previous plan because if it was the company would not have wanted it.
Look at all ways to become more cost effective but be wary of any new bid or work system.
Even the surrender monkeys who voted YES to get rid of the 75% system we used to have before bidding were astounded at the difference between what the company told them and what the company did after the new system was introduced.
White pointer tells us to compromise and think of the junior crew and that career progression is a dead duck.
Yet the company are about to get a huge number of aircraft which will require a corresponding increase in crew.
What will happen with the current junior crew in regards to the newly hired crew.Will they then say OK lets forget about seniority and be fair to the 'new junior' crew.....I doubt it.
White Pointer...During the debate about the New York slip the company replaced a number of Australian crew before the vote was taken.
This was obviously a scare tactic and was typical of how the company regards cabin crew.
White Pointer..You made the point that a NO vote would have us lose jobs to the Kiwis and only a YES vote would stop it.
Well,what happened..the slip did not get back in and the kiwi's still did the job.
Australian Cabin Crew did not even get a thanks for trying to improve flexibility.
So what did voting YES get you?....Nothing..Squat..Zilch...
The company during SARS asked us to accept a reduction in crew to help out.
Did the company ever give the crew member back...NO
This seniority issue comes up again simply because the company wants crew to accept the new bid system.The same usual people who suggest we give in are back in town waving the seniority flag yet again.
As far as the LHR base is concerned most of us agree that the basic tenet was to lower or reduce the conditions of Australian based crew.
You only have to look at what LHR trips Australian crews get and the reduced slip and what trips and slips the LHR based crew get.
As far as Australian crew going up there it is a little like collaborating with the enemy.You are helping them out in reducing the conditions of Australian crew.
You can stick your head in the sand and say but I am only one person but in the end everyone who goes up there helps the company out.
The company has never been interested in helping crew out by improving the bid system.The reserve system and demand days are a joke.
You have to understand that any new system will be like a new company super scheme.It will never be as good for the employees as the previous plan because if it was the company would not have wanted it.
Look at all ways to become more cost effective but be wary of any new bid or work system.
Even the surrender monkeys who voted YES to get rid of the 75% system we used to have before bidding were astounded at the difference between what the company told them and what the company did after the new system was introduced.
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Lowerlobe, are you saying if we voted no to the NY shuttle we would be back slipping there and better off? And if no Australian ventured up to London the base would be dead and buried?
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White pointer..It was you who said we have to vote YES because it would protect our jobs...here is your quote
Well,the vote was YES and did the slip come back?....NO
Did the company stop using AKL crews ..NO,they have used them on and off and the vote achieved nothing ......for crew that is.
I never said that not going to LHR would close the base....
My idea of not going to LHR is called having principles.
To show how the company acts and thinks of Australian crew look at 'THE LHR trip that we have and what trips and slips the LHR base have.
I find it interesting that you only show up when something big is on the horizon and the company has a lot at stake.
Lowerlobe: if we vote NO then how do we go about getting our NY slips back,
Did the company stop using AKL crews ..NO,they have used them on and off and the vote achieved nothing ......for crew that is.
I never said that not going to LHR would close the base....
My idea of not going to LHR is called having principles.
To show how the company acts and thinks of Australian crew look at 'THE LHR trip that we have and what trips and slips the LHR base have.
I find it interesting that you only show up when something big is on the horizon and the company has a lot at stake.
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Positive Changes?
When I started flying being a "steward"meant being part of a boys club that was run by a bunch of old bull elephants born in the 40s.
I hated my first few years of flying.
Seniority determined the meal choice you had,your time off,your work position and your position in the Q when checking into a hotel.
If the Chief or FSD said drinks were in his room your had to turn up.If you didnt they would ring your room.If you werent there you were questioned the next day.Most of these people were borderline alcoholics.
The system thankfully has broken down over the years.
The bid system has never been fixed because the company didnt want it fixed.
The software was flawed when it was introduced in 88.It delivers poor quality rosters for everybody.It produces too many cost inefficient low lines.
Everybody is unhappy with it.So the promise of something new gets everyone excited.
We were promised a lot when the bid system was introduced but very little if any of it was implemented.
We gave up 25% of our standown for this.A minority of crew agreed to its introduction and the rest were forced to accept it.
Previously crew had a choice to be on the "married roster" or "short division" to acommodate family life.All that disappeared.
Just be very careful about what you intend to give up.
I have just over a year of accumulated sick leave.If I get done over by a"new" system I will burn every day of it to maintain a balance between my home life and worklife.
Management always has a two tiered agenda.
Just ask the domestics about their last EBA.
KY was promised but never supplied .
They were told it wouldnt hurt...guess what?..it bloody well did!!
Get your hands on the KY before you accept anything from these swine.
Qantas=Animal Farm
I hated my first few years of flying.
Seniority determined the meal choice you had,your time off,your work position and your position in the Q when checking into a hotel.
If the Chief or FSD said drinks were in his room your had to turn up.If you didnt they would ring your room.If you werent there you were questioned the next day.Most of these people were borderline alcoholics.
The system thankfully has broken down over the years.
The bid system has never been fixed because the company didnt want it fixed.
The software was flawed when it was introduced in 88.It delivers poor quality rosters for everybody.It produces too many cost inefficient low lines.
Everybody is unhappy with it.So the promise of something new gets everyone excited.
We were promised a lot when the bid system was introduced but very little if any of it was implemented.
We gave up 25% of our standown for this.A minority of crew agreed to its introduction and the rest were forced to accept it.
Previously crew had a choice to be on the "married roster" or "short division" to acommodate family life.All that disappeared.
Just be very careful about what you intend to give up.
I have just over a year of accumulated sick leave.If I get done over by a"new" system I will burn every day of it to maintain a balance between my home life and worklife.
Management always has a two tiered agenda.
Just ask the domestics about their last EBA.
KY was promised but never supplied .
They were told it wouldnt hurt...guess what?..it bloody well did!!
Get your hands on the KY before you accept anything from these swine.
Qantas=Animal Farm
Last edited by surfside6; 8th Aug 2007 at 07:48.
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for the record
the original bid system in 88 was working well. too well for the company. so they start fiddeling with the system. years later and some 35+ adjustments the bid system is truly stuffed. the jeppeson bid system is actually a senority based bidding system where you can put as many conditions in as you like. so whatever the outcome of the next eba it can all be accomandated. it also has a transperency to it which of course one can assume will be hidden from cabin crew. remember, when we had open time bids displayed and one could see who else bidded for the trip. didn't last long,did it? lets see what the offer is but as mentioned here it is never going to be better.
S6 you are kind to call most of the old guys alcoholics (not nice). the curretn system does not deliver poor quality rosters for everyone. the top 30% seem to be very happy. unfortunatly that does not apply to me.
S6 you are kind to call most of the old guys alcoholics (not nice). the curretn system does not deliver poor quality rosters for everyone. the top 30% seem to be very happy. unfortunatly that does not apply to me.
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Lowerlobe,
You can go back years and get quotes and twist them whichever way you wish. And no stage did I advocate that by accepting Yes to the NY vote we would be getting our slips back. It would just keep us at least flying there. At the time you were advocating that we had to vote NO to get the NY slip back. Can you explain how this would have worked? The quote you posted was me asking you how by voting NO you were so sure we would be again slipping in NY.
And just for the record, I have only visited this a few times. Seems the odd occassion I look the likes of yourself have given QF crew a great reputation by getting them banned and it takes a lot of us ages to find where things have moved since then.
Anyhow, enough wasting my time with this. Got a life to get to. Will see you back in another year or two maybe.
You can go back years and get quotes and twist them whichever way you wish. And no stage did I advocate that by accepting Yes to the NY vote we would be getting our slips back. It would just keep us at least flying there. At the time you were advocating that we had to vote NO to get the NY slip back. Can you explain how this would have worked? The quote you posted was me asking you how by voting NO you were so sure we would be again slipping in NY.
And just for the record, I have only visited this a few times. Seems the odd occassion I look the likes of yourself have given QF crew a great reputation by getting them banned and it takes a lot of us ages to find where things have moved since then.
Anyhow, enough wasting my time with this. Got a life to get to. Will see you back in another year or two maybe.
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Just For The Record
Bid Runs this year have generated enormous numbers of demand days.
Last BP252 the number one CSS the number one CSM and the number one BFA received corrupted rosters.
Piss eveybody off so that they will embrace the "new" system.
Psst..Lesley can I have my KY now?
BTW...shouldnt that be WhitePointer(S)...plural?
Last BP252 the number one CSS the number one CSM and the number one BFA received corrupted rosters.
Piss eveybody off so that they will embrace the "new" system.
Psst..Lesley can I have my KY now?
BTW...shouldnt that be WhitePointer(S)...plural?
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As Mrpaxing and surfside mentioned the current system is far from perfect and it never hurts to look at new systems.
However,as I said with company super schemes the new plan or bid system will rarely be better than the current one.Otherwise the company would have no interest in it.
You can try to have safeguards in place and I guess their success depends on the industrial situation and that depends on who is in Government.
As I said I know of 2 girls who voted for the bid system in 88 and just after that when we were turned around on a trip they said in disbelief "But the company said they would never do this"...
If there is a moral to be learned from that is that the company has no morals.
However,as I said with company super schemes the new plan or bid system will rarely be better than the current one.Otherwise the company would have no interest in it.
You can try to have safeguards in place and I guess their success depends on the industrial situation and that depends on who is in Government.
As I said I know of 2 girls who voted for the bid system in 88 and just after that when we were turned around on a trip they said in disbelief "But the company said they would never do this"...
If there is a moral to be learned from that is that the company has no morals.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Since this is a pilot network, why don't you people take your arguments over here:
http://www.cabincrew.com/ccnetwork/
There is a specific section for Australian and New Zealand cabin crew.
Interesting to read on this forum that shorthaul claim to be getting their hands on the A380.
Even better, any reason your union won't set up a specific bulletin board for company specific issues like Qrewroom is for the pilots? At least some things can be discussed that do not (and should not) end up in the public domain. It can only be read and contributed to by those who are authorised to do so by the administrators (ie. company employees).
http://www.cabincrew.com/ccnetwork/
There is a specific section for Australian and New Zealand cabin crew.
Interesting to read on this forum that shorthaul claim to be getting their hands on the A380.
Even better, any reason your union won't set up a specific bulletin board for company specific issues like Qrewroom is for the pilots? At least some things can be discussed that do not (and should not) end up in the public domain. It can only be read and contributed to by those who are authorised to do so by the administrators (ie. company employees).
Join Date: Jun 2005
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bazzamundi
Ground Engineers are free to post on here ... we are flight crew so we should be able to as well.
Someone said juniors whinge but make no suggestions to the seniority system, well here are some:-
> Open time to be awarded in reverse seniority;
> Dump system like short haul
> Holidays on rotation
> Seniority on rotation
> Bids for trip days away only, rather than destination (Lifestyle bidding ie ' want a certain type of trip' rather than 'this specific trip' )
> Days off bids only
> Equal Share system for destinations
All can be accomplished, with the new Jepp system, all are options available.... all are compromises, but the senior FAAA execs have already said they want to have the same system !!
And as others have said, the growing discontent is growing, growing and growing. the seniors will lose EVERYTHING if they wont compromise ... the juiniors have absoloutely nothing to lose, as we have nothing already.
Juniors will be happy to compromise, rather than take the seniority system down, but we will take it down if needed !
Ground Engineers are free to post on here ... we are flight crew so we should be able to as well.
Someone said juniors whinge but make no suggestions to the seniority system, well here are some:-
> Open time to be awarded in reverse seniority;
> Dump system like short haul
> Holidays on rotation
> Seniority on rotation
> Bids for trip days away only, rather than destination (Lifestyle bidding ie ' want a certain type of trip' rather than 'this specific trip' )
> Days off bids only
> Equal Share system for destinations
All can be accomplished, with the new Jepp system, all are options available.... all are compromises, but the senior FAAA execs have already said they want to have the same system !!
And as others have said, the growing discontent is growing, growing and growing. the seniors will lose EVERYTHING if they wont compromise ... the juiniors have absoloutely nothing to lose, as we have nothing already.
Juniors will be happy to compromise, rather than take the seniority system down, but we will take it down if needed !
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Heaven
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We Have Nothing?
We all get paid....thats why we have a fulltime job and go to work.
Any 9 to 5 person would consider this a lot of bleeting by precious QF flight attendants.
There are FAs who earn more than CSMs and they have flying less than 10 years.
The crew who have nothing are the AKL based crew.
These poor devils are treated like fodder...its an absolute disgrace.
An allocated roster is what the company is looking at.
No control over your life whatsoever.
Any 9 to 5 person would consider this a lot of bleeting by precious QF flight attendants.
There are FAs who earn more than CSMs and they have flying less than 10 years.
The crew who have nothing are the AKL based crew.
These poor devils are treated like fodder...its an absolute disgrace.
An allocated roster is what the company is looking at.
No control over your life whatsoever.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Bazzamundi.....It's time you put yourself to good use and do some real work which suits your true job description 
www.sta.nsw.gov.au/jobs/
www.sta.nsw.gov.au/jobs/
LOL
