End Of Cabin Crew Seniority In Qf Long Haul?
 

The following newsletter on the FAAA website. Clearly Qantas want to get rid of the bid system. What do people think??
August 2007
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
JEPPESEN ROSTER SYSTEMS
We have been briefed by Cabin Crew Management and a project manager from Jeppesen about new software they are developing and evaluating for the construction of flight attendants rosters.
As you would no doubt be aware the current software that Qantas is using to produce Cabin Crew rosters is over 20 years old. It has significant limitations and often results in very poor quality rosters for even the most senior of crew. The development of the new software heralds the next generation of potential rostering systems and capabilities.
It is important to once again state the FAAA’s position; which we believe is also the position of our members. We have consistently stated that we believe that “choice” is paramount. We also have stated that a flight attendants length of service should also be taken into consideration in the construction of rosters. Our position on this has not changed.
We have also indicated to Qantas that any change at all away from the current “strict” seniority system is a matter for flight attendants to vote on and will not be departed from without considerable consultation and education of members.
I will list the sort of challenges that the Company needs to address with it employees in order to get them to agree to change the current system of work allocation. This list is not exhaustive but will give you some idea of the complexity of the system.
• Issues relating to partners needing to bid opposite each other for child care
• Issues of partners or friends wishing to fly together
• Issues of Commuters and the length and type of trips
• Issues related to part- time
• Issues related to Fatigue management
• Issues related to the ability to guarantee days off without using annual leave
• Issues related to general fairness and equity in a stagnant recruitment environment
These are just some of the challenges that our members face in trying to reconcile their home and work lives.
The Jeppesen software is capable of “replicating” the current system of work allocation in its entirety. However it is also capable of allowing crew to vary that system by agreement and vote. The extent of that variance is a matter for flight attendants. It could mean as little as caps on some trips or the ability to have greater levels of roster satisfaction with a seniority system still intact, but also taking into account some of the things I have dot pointed above.
I am writing this newsletter to you because the company will be discussing the Jeppessen software and capability at its upcoming Strategy Meetings.
It is important that you have a say and listen to the presentation. If you do choose to attend we suggest that you go ask as many questions as you need to, in order to understand the project and its capabilities.
At the end of the day, it’s a matter for flight attendants to determine via a vote. We have been and still are of the view that a flight attendants length of service should be important in the construction of rosters and the ability of all crew to exercise some level of choice and be satisfied to the highest extent possible.
The FAAA have only had an overview briefing ourselves and are not expert by any stretch of the imagination. Your questions should be directed to the managers holding the meetings rather than your own CCTM’s or CCM’s or the FAAA at this stage.
In order to ensure that consistent and accurate information is provided only the managers conducting the briefing should be discussing the software and its capabilities. The FAAA will comment further when the Company meetings have been completed.
We will update you when we have more information
Written by Steven Reed – President International Division
Authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division

The End Of Seniority In Qf Long Haul
 

The End Of Seniority Bidding In Long Haul??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following newsletter on the FAAA website. Clearly Qantas want to get rid of the bid system. What do people think??August 2007
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
JEPPESEN ROSTER SYSTEMS
We have been briefed by Cabin Crew Management and a project manager from Jeppesen about new software they are developing and evaluating for the construction of flight attendants rosters.
As you would no doubt be aware the current software that Qantas is using to produce Cabin Crew rosters is over 20 years old. It has significant limitations and often results in very poor quality rosters for even the most senior of crew. The development of the new software heralds the next generation of potential rostering systems and capabilities.
It is important to once again state the FAAA’s position; which we believe is also the position of our members. We have consistently stated that we believe that “choice” is paramount. We also have stated that a flight attendants length of service should also be taken into consideration in the construction of rosters. Our position on this has not changed.
We have also indicated to Qantas that any change at all away from the current “strict” seniority system is a matter for flight attendants to vote on and will not be departed from without considerable consultation and education of members.
I will list the sort of challenges that the Company needs to address with it employees in order to get them to agree to change the current system of work allocation. This list is not exhaustive but will give you some idea of the complexity of the system.
• Issues relating to partners needing to bid opposite each other for child care
• Issues of partners or friends wishing to fly together
• Issues of Commuters and the length and type of trips
• Issues related to part- time
• Issues related to Fatigue management
• Issues related to the ability to guarantee days off without using annual leave
• Issues related to general fairness and equity in a stagnant recruitment environment
These are just some of the challenges that our members face in trying to reconcile their home and work lives.
The Jeppesen software is capable of “replicating” the current system of work allocation in its entirety. However it is also capable of allowing crew to vary that system by agreement and vote. The extent of that variance is a matter for flight attendants. It could mean as little as caps on some trips or the ability to have greater levels of roster satisfaction with a seniority system still intact, but also taking into account some of the things I have dot pointed above.
I am writing this newsletter to you because the company will be discussing the Jeppessen software and capability at its upcoming Strategy Meetings.
It is important that you have a say and listen to the presentation. If you do choose to attend we suggest that you go ask as many questions as you need to, in order to understand the project and its capabilities.
At the end of the day, it’s a matter for flight attendants to determine via a vote. We have been and still are of the view that a flight attendants length of service should be important in the construction of rosters and the ability of all crew to exercise some level of choice and be satisfied to the highest extent possible.
The FAAA have only had an overview briefing ourselves and are not expert by any stretch of the imagination. Your questions should be directed to the managers holding the meetings rather than your own CCTM’s or CCM’s or the FAAA at this stage.
In order to ensure that consistent and accurate information is provided only the managers conducting the briefing should be discussing the software and its capabilities. The FAAA will comment further when the Company meetings have been completed.
We will update you when we have more information
Written by Steven Reed – President International Division
Authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division

Not On
 

i get less then half what i bid for however:yuk: some choice is better then none.:=
this thread should be combined with qf eba :ok:

I don't think management want to get rid of seniority bidding entirely.
Why would they invest in a new system that is capable of managing seniority bidding far more efficiently, if they don't want it at all?
I think they just want a system that can be as fair as possible to as many people as possible, while still retaining seniority bidding as the core.

I think it is only the most junior crew that get back to back JoBergs that want to get rid of seniority bidding totally.

Sounds like a win all round really if we can get this ancient system updated and still keep seniority.

Quote- "Sounds like a win all round really if we can get this ancient system updated and still keep seniority."

The devil is always in the detail but [strangely] I find myself agreeing with you.:ooh:

I may have missed something, but could someone please remind of the significance of this thread to the Professional Pilots, as in what PPRune was established for? I can generally avoid your topics by just not reading them, however, with a thread title as above one assumes it is about pilots. Would it be possible to get a specific FA section where you can have your whinges to your hearts content (same goes for the ginger beers, but at least their thread has a little interest to us piloting types)
Standing by for incoming stilettos and spanners.......

Eden99,
perhaps you ought to alter the title of this thread in order to not offend the precious.

QF seniority
 

My better half who is an ex TAA Hostess and now a S/H CSM (29 years) and who agrees that seniority is the best way to handle rostering, as we have all had to handle being junior in our jobs.

In my career, for a long time I was known as JB (junior boy) and now after 28 years have some authority in my career which is non aviation related.

Get over your junior status as you will have seniority one day.

To those ex cabin crew who have retired or taken VR and as you have had a career which will never be repeated due to new planes and rostering, please keep posting, as an experienced flight attendant's views and opinions will help forge the future ahead and let all know what you have achieved.

During a trip to PEK last year we were seated way down the back and as being sub load we found that the crew after a almost 12 hour flight were still friendly, courteous and awake which in my past career I couldn't do, and the Captain who was on a walk to the back of the plane recongnised my partner and stopped for a chat.

I had 28 years with an emergency service and think I have experienced many career ups and downs.

Remember to keep united to maintain your hard fought awards and as my union always said, you inherited these hard won conditions and you must pass them on to the next generation in a better state than when you got them.

Qantas is a big family so please keep looking after and your hard won conditions and especially look after each other.

Prior to meeting my lady I was and are still are an aviation fan and still sit at the viewing area at Tullamarine and watch the traffic, life doesn't get any better.

To finish up, PPRUNE is a great site and I log in a few times every day to keep up to date.

Nice post and wise words, QF A330. Thank you.

Never truer words spoken-

"Remember to keep united to maintain your hard fought awards and as my union always said, you inherited these hard won conditions and you must pass them on to the next generation in a better state than when you got them."

Ozdork
 

Is it just me or do other ppruners find the term 'ginger beers' extremely offensive?

No, it's just you................

No, just you :rolleyes:

And the manbags...

Ozdork, this lot were kicked out of the specific cabin crew forum for unseemly, obnoxious behaviour.

Unfortunately, it seems that out of all the cabin crew in the world, a certain element of the aussie scene were deemed the most offensive, all-round, and by default have been foisted upon us in D&G. Not sure what we did to deserve it.



Ref the topic, the straight seniority system is seen as encouraging career hostiehood. A rotating system, if that's what they have in mind, will reward the juniors once or twice a year with a top month bid, thereby discouraging, to some degree, the boilers from hanging around, which seems to be a big part of the plan.

Hope they at least bought you flowers before they ****** ***.

What type of system do QF mainline pilots use?

Is this not a straight seniority system?

Not a rotating one?

To any moderators reading this thread,if you want to see an obnoxious post then you would not have to go past Scottydoo!!!

He would like nothing more than to incite an argument and have the moderators close this thread or ban cabin Crew.

End Of Cabin Crew Seniority in Qf Long Haul?
 

Ummm, I thought a thread title with the words 'Cabin Crew' in it would have been a dead give away to its content....

:confused:

Agree 5678,

But with a second name-..........DORK.

What do you expect???:rolleyes:

On the "other" subject .........Scooby Doo. Best not to respond.

I'm off now to Oxford St, I hear there is a sale on Man Bags and High Heels at the Pink Boutique.

Do try to keep up, girls... :p

Careful What You Wish For?
 

Anything that is offered to Crew as being wonderful should be viewed as a Trojan horse.
This management has a habit of offering a lot and delivering zilch.
Dont be blind sided.This upcoming EBA is a watershed and therefore crucial to all our futures.
Always look at the broader implications and dont make decisions based on self interest.
I speak from experience.
A previous employer appealed to my greed and I succumbed. I paid the price to the extent that I had to leave.
I will never be that stupid again.

End Of Senior Cabin Crew In Qf Long Haul.

Now I am sure many travellers would vote for that!!!

MP.

Why Would They vote for that?
 

Fifteen Crew...all flying two years....little experience...young.
A brawl breaks out onboard...you are sitting 1A...are you going to sort it out as you see it escalate?
The only time you would get involved is when your Dom gets spilt by someone involved in the fracas.
Seniority is a recognition of accumulated experience and an ability to identify problems BEFORE they become problems.
If you have never seen a scorpion before how do identify it as being dangerous?
You Can't.
Someone who has experience might be able to assist.
You cant squeeze 50 years of experience into a 25 year old head.
Seniorty recognizes that.
Management despise seniority because those with experience tend to be less gullible and naive.
There are very few in the management of any large company who are honest with their employees and treat them with respect.
As in any society the older more senior tend to look after the younger more junior members....until they are experienced enough to look after themselves.
Order is required in any group/society
That order usually is determined by age and experience.
Would you let an 18 year old run your company?.
More importantly would you like an 18 year old telling you what to do?
The family unit is based on seniority.
Except,as in MPs case ..dad is senile and his 2 year old runs the show