perth qantas engineering
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: WZRCHS
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sobast,
A loss of 6000-8000, change of lifestyle,effect on super,loss of Z day's, all without negotiation.
Big Dick and M thought they could just railroad it through.
Everybody has a agenda, QF has via M..we also have an agenda..basically to give nothing that we have gained away without negotiation and if warrented,compensation. Also to protect our lifestyle, super, flexable Z day's etc.
The ALAEA, through the current exec, is fighting for all of us..slagging them shows that we can be divided.
Everyone gets a vote to express their views and set the direction that we take, but we must, even though we don't agree, abide by the majority.
I have the same feelings as you toward how the MEL vote was carried out,
but I am not about to slag anyone about it. (Maybe because the PER case had not been settled, that it was a way of being able to start from scratch after we knew where we stood, in regards to our ability to act as QF have, by withdrawing from extended hour agreements.) Who know's, I am not in a position to know, didn't like it but hey, maybe there is a bigger picture I can't see.
I just hate how a self centered few, can think they are above the rest of us, blatently undermine us and the rights and conditions that we fought and negotiated for.
We need a strong and united ALAEA to survive.
A loss of 6000-8000, change of lifestyle,effect on super,loss of Z day's, all without negotiation.
Big Dick and M thought they could just railroad it through.
Everybody has a agenda, QF has via M..we also have an agenda..basically to give nothing that we have gained away without negotiation and if warrented,compensation. Also to protect our lifestyle, super, flexable Z day's etc.
The ALAEA, through the current exec, is fighting for all of us..slagging them shows that we can be divided.
Everyone gets a vote to express their views and set the direction that we take, but we must, even though we don't agree, abide by the majority.
I have the same feelings as you toward how the MEL vote was carried out,
but I am not about to slag anyone about it. (Maybe because the PER case had not been settled, that it was a way of being able to start from scratch after we knew where we stood, in regards to our ability to act as QF have, by withdrawing from extended hour agreements.) Who know's, I am not in a position to know, didn't like it but hey, maybe there is a bigger picture I can't see.
I just hate how a self centered few, can think they are above the rest of us, blatently undermine us and the rights and conditions that we fought and negotiated for.
We need a strong and united ALAEA to survive.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a lot of feeling in this topic
My wish is that all LAMEs take the moral high ground and say
"ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL"
If another section falls we have no choice but to give away all extended hours rosters (though it would have been preferable to do it after the first fell but I can understand the politics of it and the win in the commission only vilified our stance now we have the AIRC backing to withdraw)
Its time we showed as a UNION that we show we can play hard ball but we must do it smart we don't want to cut off our nose to spite our faces.
Offer the company a deal, come back to the table and put the original rosters back to the membership in MEL BNE and PER and we won't withdraw our consent.
Otherwise.......................
My wish is that all LAMEs take the moral high ground and say
"ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL" If another section falls we have no choice but to give away all extended hours rosters (though it would have been preferable to do it after the first fell but I can understand the politics of it and the win in the commission only vilified our stance now we have the AIRC backing to withdraw)
Its time we showed as a UNION that we show we can play hard ball but we must do it smart we don't want to cut off our nose to spite our faces.
Offer the company a deal, come back to the table and put the original rosters back to the membership in MEL BNE and PER and we won't withdraw our consent.
Otherwise.......................
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looking for the bridge of trust
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't worry guys, apparently you've got another Supervisor from SYD coming over to help GH supplement the shortage of DMMs. This Christian Soldier goes by the name of "The Smear" and he just loves carrying out MEDAs.
Give him hell!!!
Give him hell!!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looking for the bridge of trust
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, haven't heard him called "Puff Daddy". The Smear is only a supervisor but has had a bit of training to do DMMs job. Make sure you guys dot the Is and cross the Ts when he's around.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SYD
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bug a lugs. Sorry mate, if working for a living makes me a hero then i better go and get my cape. D1ckhead!!
Dont rope the decent workers in with the 'chosen ones' or anyone else wanting to undermine the perth guys.
Dont rope the decent workers in with the 'chosen ones' or anyone else wanting to undermine the perth guys.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey there Big Unit
It just seems that there is a disproportionate amount of guys from Base willing to go against their so called mates and step on the blokes in Perth.
So maybe you should say something to those guys who keep going over there,instead of sniping when somebody has something to say here.If I call you Base blokes heros,well if you don't like the tag,do something about it.
Otherwise get out of base and get a life.
It just seems that there is a disproportionate amount of guys from Base willing to go against their so called mates and step on the blokes in Perth.
So maybe you should say something to those guys who keep going over there,instead of sniping when somebody has something to say here.If I call you Base blokes heros,well if you don't like the tag,do something about it.
Otherwise get out of base and get a life.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: n.s.w
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It just seems that there is a disproportionate amount of guys from Base willing to go against their so called mates and step on the blokes in Perth.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gee company spy,you really know how to wound those Perth blokes.Why don't you tell them what you really think?
Its just that at this present stage,there hasn't been anyone from SDO or SIO wing their way over to Perth to "help out"........
Some guys will do just about anything to get invited for chinese!!!
I hope its worth it for your reputation...............
Its just that at this present stage,there hasn't been anyone from SDO or SIO wing their way over to Perth to "help out"........
Some guys will do just about anything to get invited for chinese!!!
I hope its worth it for your reputation...............
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Snakepit Sydney
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 Hr roster
The original intention of the 12 hr roster in Perth wasnt to make more $$$ for engineering staff, the basis of it was flexibility and with it costed out against having an 8 or 9.5 hr roster.
The benefits were;
1.High utilisation of exsiting staff licence coverage
2.Better manpower management to cope with training
3.Having a 2 shifts on and 2 shift off - gave you a pool of people available to cover any customer or own major avoinic/mechanical problem AOG
4.Flexibility on relief posting positions due to available staff
5.Greater ease in aquitting outstanding leave requirements
6.Coverage of both International & Domestic operations with flexible workforce and better coverage for network flight times
7.Noticeable less sick leave
8.Less human factor maintenance errors
The were weighted up against the old 8 hr roster and the 9.5 hour roster, which proved to have areas of deficiencies....No leave - high sick leave - poor coverage - excessive overtime to meet operational requirements
All this seems to have gone by the way side now...
Management dont really have any interest in the well being of their staff, they see them not as an asset but a liability that requires to be exploted to the maximum and the fry them when their are errors....
I wonder if the sick leave has increased on the 8 hr roster as compared to the 12 hr?
I wonder if leave is being aquitted like it was on the 12hr?
None of these issues seem to be highlighted by management....
10.9 hour roster in Sydney International? It isnt working - now they are trying to look at a 9.5 hr roster. - try and sell that to SIT, dont think thats going to work....and how will Mr MH look when he has told all the ports that the 10.9 is the ideal roster and its working in SIT (which does have a curfew)
Well looks like everyone will be going back to an 8 hr roster
All I can say is good on you to all my mates in the West....
The benefits were;
1.High utilisation of exsiting staff licence coverage
2.Better manpower management to cope with training
3.Having a 2 shifts on and 2 shift off - gave you a pool of people available to cover any customer or own major avoinic/mechanical problem AOG
4.Flexibility on relief posting positions due to available staff
5.Greater ease in aquitting outstanding leave requirements
6.Coverage of both International & Domestic operations with flexible workforce and better coverage for network flight times
7.Noticeable less sick leave
8.Less human factor maintenance errors
The were weighted up against the old 8 hr roster and the 9.5 hour roster, which proved to have areas of deficiencies....No leave - high sick leave - poor coverage - excessive overtime to meet operational requirements
All this seems to have gone by the way side now...
Management dont really have any interest in the well being of their staff, they see them not as an asset but a liability that requires to be exploted to the maximum and the fry them when their are errors....
I wonder if the sick leave has increased on the 8 hr roster as compared to the 12 hr?
I wonder if leave is being aquitted like it was on the 12hr?
None of these issues seem to be highlighted by management....
10.9 hour roster in Sydney International? It isnt working - now they are trying to look at a 9.5 hr roster. - try and sell that to SIT, dont think thats going to work....and how will Mr MH look when he has told all the ports that the 10.9 is the ideal roster and its working in SIT (which does have a curfew)
Well looks like everyone will be going back to an 8 hr roster
All I can say is good on you to all my mates in the West....
Last edited by Hardworker; 1st Jun 2007 at 00:36. Reason: spelling mistakes!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: n.s.w
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gee company spy,you really know how to wound those Perth blokes.Why don't you tell them what you really think?
Its just that at this present stage,there hasn't been anyone from SDO or SIO wing their way over to Perth to "help out"........
Some guys will do just about anything to get invited for chinese!!!
I hope its worth it for your reputation...............
Its just that at this present stage,there hasn't been anyone from SDO or SIO wing their way over to Perth to "help out"........
Some guys will do just about anything to get invited for chinese!!!
I hope its worth it for your reputation...............
It's because of the "disproportionate" number of back sliders who work there.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Gods Country
Age: 65
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Mr Hardworker-spot on.Some answers to your questions.
Sick leave has tripled since the 8 hour shift. Its not because guys are being illegitimate its simply there is not enough recovery time. We frequently do 5 days on 1 off and then another 4. Most bugs take a good 3 days to fix so the only way to recover is sick leave.
Leave is accruing at a huge rate. I believe 700 hours a month. They can not afford the required lines in the roster due they cant afford to have us away. We believe the alarm bells have gone off in SYD about us as we approach the end of the financial year.
Also due to our roster inefficiency's we require more training in 747LE/738/A330. (3 shifts require coverage everyday now not 2) Well guess what we cant do it as once again as they cant afford to have us away.
We used to have over 16 lines for leave and training. Now its only 9 and we have over a dozen new staff!!!! ( 9 doesn't even acquit the leave)
What a circus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Snakepit Sydney
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 Hr roster
I thought it would revert back to the days prior to the 12hr roster, it was just as bad on the 9.5 when I was there, not enough leave allocations and to work 5 days straight and lets face it, Perth is a busy little airport with very short turnaround times.....
No wonder the sick leave is increasing, throw in cold weather and a bit of wind chill not forgetting all the bugs that come in on all the foreign operators....there goes the recovery time...
Some how I keep thinking that Qantas has a Duty of Care policy....
But I think that translates to do lots of Duty as we dont Care!
You would think an operation that has proven its efficiencies by;
1. First every Australian full intergrated Domestic/International
2. Cost recovery from numerous Foreign operators
3. Remote location and limited resources
4. Flexible workforce covering the operation in AOG situations
would have been more than enough for management to look at and say, hey its working well if we take into the account of sick leave/training/leave
and human resources problems, but no, bring in an outside consultant to review the operation. Pay millions of dollars to these consultants (due to managements inability to manage and see benefits/disadvantages) and have a report saying that 2hr a week overtime built into the 12hr roster is costing you X number of dollars per person...
Then management with the 2hr overtime in their sights overlook every positive to drive a cost saving, not even review or balance the disadvantages against the advantages....
Must be time for a new management team, the likes of M H & his appointed yes boys R H at the SIT must be made accountable and be given the flick!
Its only a matter of time before an incident exceeds this ridiculous cost driven stupidity....engineering is an insurance policy - a last means of defense in the "swiss cheese", but management see it only as an expense
And guess what the 10.9 hr roster at Sydney SIT isnt working either - they are looking at a 9.5 hr roster....well as you can guess the guys will go for the 8hr than be abused into a 9.5....after all R H & Mr M H said the 10.9 hr roster was the template for all Australian stations....proof that it doesnt work and now they have to face the reality and see that one roster doesnt fit all stations.....Where do they find these people...you wouldnt let them manage a shoe store let alone a complex industry with so many variables as aviation!
No wonder the sick leave is increasing, throw in cold weather and a bit of wind chill not forgetting all the bugs that come in on all the foreign operators....there goes the recovery time...
Some how I keep thinking that Qantas has a Duty of Care policy....
But I think that translates to do lots of Duty as we dont Care!
You would think an operation that has proven its efficiencies by;
1. First every Australian full intergrated Domestic/International
2. Cost recovery from numerous Foreign operators
3. Remote location and limited resources
4. Flexible workforce covering the operation in AOG situations
would have been more than enough for management to look at and say, hey its working well if we take into the account of sick leave/training/leave
and human resources problems, but no, bring in an outside consultant to review the operation. Pay millions of dollars to these consultants (due to managements inability to manage and see benefits/disadvantages) and have a report saying that 2hr a week overtime built into the 12hr roster is costing you X number of dollars per person...
Then management with the 2hr overtime in their sights overlook every positive to drive a cost saving, not even review or balance the disadvantages against the advantages....
Must be time for a new management team, the likes of M H & his appointed yes boys R H at the SIT must be made accountable and be given the flick!
Its only a matter of time before an incident exceeds this ridiculous cost driven stupidity....engineering is an insurance policy - a last means of defense in the "swiss cheese", but management see it only as an expense
And guess what the 10.9 hr roster at Sydney SIT isnt working either - they are looking at a 9.5 hr roster....well as you can guess the guys will go for the 8hr than be abused into a 9.5....after all R H & Mr M H said the 10.9 hr roster was the template for all Australian stations....proof that it doesnt work and now they have to face the reality and see that one roster doesnt fit all stations.....Where do they find these people...you wouldnt let them manage a shoe store let alone a complex industry with so many variables as aviation!
Last edited by Hardworker; 2nd Jun 2007 at 07:40. Reason: additional
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in your mind
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets get things straight
1. yes the DMM's in BNE were asked to stay on the 12 hr roster if the staff were made to do 8 hr rosters. 3 of the 6 said yes. 2 were perth scabs the other an up and coming wolfman
2. the 12 hr roster was negotiated and introduced as both a flexibility arrangement for the company with increased productivity ( 2 hr handover times in 24 hrs rather than 3 etc. ) and a lifestyle arrangement for the LAME's both groups had a win.
3. the current ALAEA executive have finally made decisions for the greater good of the LAME workforce, not for the company so yes some directions are not as good as others but they have the guts to make a decision
4. The scabs going to perth know what they are doing. They are grown intelligent men, what has made them resort to letting down there mates in time of need. This is not the Australian way. The company will **** all over them just like they do to everyone, they will learn.
5. And finally with QF showing that with the APA takeover they could pay a 4.5 BILLION special divedend to the bid partners shows QF are doing better than they have let on. Has GD been lying to staff and shareholders for years. This shows they have enough money to re invest into the future of QF staff like there new ads show. Its time to put your money where your mouth is
2. the 12 hr roster was negotiated and introduced as both a flexibility arrangement for the company with increased productivity ( 2 hr handover times in 24 hrs rather than 3 etc. ) and a lifestyle arrangement for the LAME's both groups had a win.
3. the current ALAEA executive have finally made decisions for the greater good of the LAME workforce, not for the company so yes some directions are not as good as others but they have the guts to make a decision
4. The scabs going to perth know what they are doing. They are grown intelligent men, what has made them resort to letting down there mates in time of need. This is not the Australian way. The company will **** all over them just like they do to everyone, they will learn.
5. And finally with QF showing that with the APA takeover they could pay a 4.5 BILLION special divedend to the bid partners shows QF are doing better than they have let on. Has GD been lying to staff and shareholders for years. This shows they have enough money to re invest into the future of QF staff like there new ads show. Its time to put your money where your mouth is
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sobast -
At the same time in MEL the vote seemed "rigged" the other way. They were voting on rosters for INT,DOM and supers. Each of the 3 areas had to have the same majority one way or the other. That meant that the the smallest group of (I think) 8 had control of the vote. You could have a couple of hundred guys voting one way, but the 8 would override them. Even if only 3 of te 8 voted the other way. NOTE- I'm NOT bagging the supers. It's just the way I see it, the smaller number won the vote because of the way the votes were weighted by the union. Please, if I've got it mixed up, tell me.
Not too far from the truth but management were told that the DMM vote would not have any impact on the two main votes. Both areas Dom and Int needed to pass acceptance of the new rosters before the Asn would agree to the merger and subsequent rosters. Nothing rigged just a union taking care of the needs of it's entire membership.
You see in the past Qantas have divided smaller groups and played off one dept against another. The Asn and it's past leadership allowed this but the new Executive will stand by their members in a united front.
At the same time in MEL the vote seemed "rigged" the other way. They were voting on rosters for INT,DOM and supers. Each of the 3 areas had to have the same majority one way or the other. That meant that the the smallest group of (I think) 8 had control of the vote. You could have a couple of hundred guys voting one way, but the 8 would override them. Even if only 3 of te 8 voted the other way. NOTE- I'm NOT bagging the supers. It's just the way I see it, the smaller number won the vote because of the way the votes were weighted by the union. Please, if I've got it mixed up, tell me.
Not too far from the truth but management were told that the DMM vote would not have any impact on the two main votes. Both areas Dom and Int needed to pass acceptance of the new rosters before the Asn would agree to the merger and subsequent rosters. Nothing rigged just a union taking care of the needs of it's entire membership.
You see in the past Qantas have divided smaller groups and played off one dept against another. The Asn and it's past leadership allowed this but the new Executive will stand by their members in a united front.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what was the outcome of the big M visiting perth this week..how can DH still be employed after his recent acts(vwww.voxengineer.com) for those that have not heard..when are we all going on the 8 hr roster to teach these fu..ers a lesson.starting to wear thin on all this BS, especially when the company is making record profits based on the dedication of the employees..Managers pull your heads out of each others asses and wake up \to yourselves....Its not you that keeps this airline running, its everyone..Sorry if i sound pissed, i am, a few tooheys extra drys will do this to you...
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am hearing that M is going to appeal the DMM decision before the
full bench of the commission. The fight continues.
To anyone thinking of coming over to "help" DON'T.
All you are doing is prolonging the madness here.
If you want to help stay at home!!!!!!!!!!!
full bench of the commission. The fight continues.
To anyone thinking of coming over to "help" DON'T.
All you are doing is prolonging the madness here.
If you want to help stay at home!!!!!!!!!!!