perth qantas engineering
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Yeah mate, managment will, but I doubt the blokes on the floor will thank or respect you for it!!!!!!
Time for a reality check me thinks................................
Time for a reality check me thinks................................
Join Date: Apr 2007
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well we have just had qf management over trying to get us to extend our
shifts to cover the customers and specifically MAS.
It appears that they are not happy and are threatening to pull the
contract from QF nationally . The contract is worth 6m to the company.
Kiwi and Garuda are also allegidly unhappy as well.
They then went down the path of suggesting that if we didn't accept / trial the 10.9 hr roster that there would be retrenchments and the possability
that QF management would close perth eng down all together.
DH has already threatened us with that on neumerous occasions has't he.
This reeks of a MH set up to me. If we dont kowtow to him now he gets the opertunity to shead contracts and paint perth eng as the bad guys who
caused it .
If he pulls this off it will also be used against the the MEL international
guys allowing him to get rid of his so called trouble makers making MH
look good to this boss DC.
How do we move forward when you have a snake like this for a boss
Its just a shame that we don't have access to upper management to get
our case heard
Any Ideas?
shifts to cover the customers and specifically MAS.
It appears that they are not happy and are threatening to pull the
contract from QF nationally . The contract is worth 6m to the company.
Kiwi and Garuda are also allegidly unhappy as well.
They then went down the path of suggesting that if we didn't accept / trial the 10.9 hr roster that there would be retrenchments and the possability
that QF management would close perth eng down all together.
DH has already threatened us with that on neumerous occasions has't he.
This reeks of a MH set up to me. If we dont kowtow to him now he gets the opertunity to shead contracts and paint perth eng as the bad guys who
caused it .
If he pulls this off it will also be used against the the MEL international
guys allowing him to get rid of his so called trouble makers making MH
look good to this boss DC.
How do we move forward when you have a snake like this for a boss
Its just a shame that we don't have access to upper management to get
our case heard
Any Ideas?
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"Go West young man!"
Anyone who goes to Perth from the East to prop up this situation needs to look at the big picture. I don't care how you try to justify it, it is wrong. To travel to Perth OCS for any reason at the moment is to do yourself a double disservice for you can bank on the fact that not only are you snubbing your brothers and sisters in arms you are also prostituting yourself to a management who regards you with as much distain for having no conviction, all for a plane ride and a few bucks.
You are not getting any brownie points with management, you need to specialise in other areas for that............
Anyone who goes to Perth from the East to prop up this situation needs to look at the big picture. I don't care how you try to justify it, it is wrong. To travel to Perth OCS for any reason at the moment is to do yourself a double disservice for you can bank on the fact that not only are you snubbing your brothers and sisters in arms you are also prostituting yourself to a management who regards you with as much distain for having no conviction, all for a plane ride and a few bucks.
You are not getting any brownie points with management, you need to specialise in other areas for that............
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I am confused. Let me get this right. M takes you off a 12 hour shift. I don't remember why, maybe it was because it was costing him too much money?
You difficult chaps wouldn't do M's favourite 10.5 hour shift, the answer to everything. So......
You get shafted, sorry its all we could do, back onto the 8 hour shift. Which apparently is working very well, meeting all the needs of the station. Now.....
You tell us that management are over there wanting an extended shift because other operators aren't happy with the current level of service.
So the question is do they want extended shift or not?
I wonder if M and others in management would ever admit they were wrong?
Imagine if they said that the eight hour isn't working lets go back onto the previous 12 hour, keep the customers happy, and sort this out. What is your plan M?
But then again they are management and they will never admit they are wrong. They probably didn't plan on you blokes sticking together so well. Keep up the good fight. Don't worry about those coming from other stations either. That is still costing the company a lot more than if you were on the 12 hour and self sufficient.
N.
You difficult chaps wouldn't do M's favourite 10.5 hour shift, the answer to everything. So......
You get shafted, sorry its all we could do, back onto the 8 hour shift. Which apparently is working very well, meeting all the needs of the station. Now.....
You tell us that management are over there wanting an extended shift because other operators aren't happy with the current level of service.
So the question is do they want extended shift or not?
I wonder if M and others in management would ever admit they were wrong?
Imagine if they said that the eight hour isn't working lets go back onto the previous 12 hour, keep the customers happy, and sort this out. What is your plan M?But then again they are management and they will never admit they are wrong. They probably didn't plan on you blokes sticking together so well. Keep up the good fight. Don't worry about those coming from other stations either. That is still costing the company a lot more than if you were on the 12 hour and self sufficient.
N.
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Well here is the conclusion from the AIRC hearing........
One good, one unfortunate.
Lets see what M's next move is.
CONCLUSIONS
[41] I have considered all the matters raised by the parties and have concluded that, in all of circumstances, and for the reasons outlined above, that Qantas is not required to reinstate the 12 hour shift roster for all LAMEs at Perth Airport. When construed properly, nothing in cl 12 requires Qantas to implement any particular roster. Nor should the 1995 Agreement between the ALAEA and Qantas be seen as having the same effect. The 1995 Agreement gave the Company an option to facilitate the introduction of an extended hours roster. A roster involving more than eight ordinary hours requires Qantas to obtain the agreement of the ALAEA. A roster of eight hours as per the one in operation since November 2006 does not. None of the circumstances or arguments advanced on behalf of the ALAEA lead to the conclusion that the choice made by Qantas should be overturned.
[42] The Enterprise Agreement makes the working of extended hours rosters conditional on ALAEA agreement. When it became clear that the ALAEA had withdrawn its agreement to a 12 hour roster for DMMs, Qantas ceased to have the necessary condition in place to continue to roster DMMs on 12 hour shifts. The circumstances of the ALAEA withdrawal of their agreement are unfortunate. In my view the ALAEA has not acted responsibly. However I do not consider that it is appropriate to do otherwise than give effect to the wording adopted by the parties in their agreement. The parties should confer with the DMMs concerned and with each other as to roster arrangements to apply to DMMs from 1 July 2007.
BY THE COMMISSION:
One good, one unfortunate.
Lets see what M's next move is.
CONCLUSIONS
[41] I have considered all the matters raised by the parties and have concluded that, in all of circumstances, and for the reasons outlined above, that Qantas is not required to reinstate the 12 hour shift roster for all LAMEs at Perth Airport. When construed properly, nothing in cl 12 requires Qantas to implement any particular roster. Nor should the 1995 Agreement between the ALAEA and Qantas be seen as having the same effect. The 1995 Agreement gave the Company an option to facilitate the introduction of an extended hours roster. A roster involving more than eight ordinary hours requires Qantas to obtain the agreement of the ALAEA. A roster of eight hours as per the one in operation since November 2006 does not. None of the circumstances or arguments advanced on behalf of the ALAEA lead to the conclusion that the choice made by Qantas should be overturned.
[42] The Enterprise Agreement makes the working of extended hours rosters conditional on ALAEA agreement. When it became clear that the ALAEA had withdrawn its agreement to a 12 hour roster for DMMs, Qantas ceased to have the necessary condition in place to continue to roster DMMs on 12 hour shifts. The circumstances of the ALAEA withdrawal of their agreement are unfortunate. In my view the ALAEA has not acted responsibly. However I do not consider that it is appropriate to do otherwise than give effect to the wording adopted by the parties in their agreement. The parties should confer with the DMMs concerned and with each other as to roster arrangements to apply to DMMs from 1 July 2007.
BY THE COMMISSION:
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they seem happy to lose contracts it gives them an excuse to downsize they could have hung on to the singapoure contract but did not want it how many engineers did that cost (syd 20)
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Qf management sent west
I loved the pep-talk given by the Visiting Qf Management.
Especially precious was the bribe….Do the 10.9 and we will get all the training done for you guys over the next 6 months. Plus, The SQ and Emirates contracts are waiting.
Then when we didn’t bite… he said, do the 10.9 or you wont have a job….the funny thing was, he was actually saying this to one of the guys that put in for V.R. six months ago and they wouldn’t let him go.
Then the master plan, he offered Garuda training if we did the 10.9. Well, he almost had us.
Was it just me, or was the “10.9” mentioned a few times. Didn’t we start that discussion 12 months ago. Good to see we are now moving forward.
Especially precious was the bribe….Do the 10.9 and we will get all the training done for you guys over the next 6 months. Plus, The SQ and Emirates contracts are waiting.
Then when we didn’t bite… he said, do the 10.9 or you wont have a job….the funny thing was, he was actually saying this to one of the guys that put in for V.R. six months ago and they wouldn’t let him go.
Then the master plan, he offered Garuda training if we did the 10.9. Well, he almost had us.
Was it just me, or was the “10.9” mentioned a few times. Didn’t we start that discussion 12 months ago. Good to see we are now moving forward.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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ok its being going on for a while
whats the comprise 11.45 shift
grow up your employer wants you to change shifts whats the big deal
he's the manager he wants you to change shifts for operational reasons
you should be glad you have a job
whats the comprise 11.45 shift
grow up your employer wants you to change shifts whats the big deal
he's the manager he wants you to change shifts for operational reasons
you should be glad you have a job
Join Date: May 2007
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That’s Right Cementhead.
Now is the time to give up award conditions (like 20th days).
Don’t worry about EBA’s, lets just start giving up all our award conditions right now, before Qantas makes another record profit.
Now is the time to give up award conditions (like 20th days).
Don’t worry about EBA’s, lets just start giving up all our award conditions right now, before Qantas makes another record profit.
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mate you work 38 hours a week you dont get 20th day
if you work a 40hr week they owe you 2hrs so every month you get a day off
on the 10.9 you work 38 hrs a week
no 20th day
sorry what were you given up?
if you work a 40hr week they owe you 2hrs so every month you get a day off
on the 10.9 you work 38 hrs a week
no 20th day
sorry what were you given up?
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Cement.
It is in a booklet distributed by Qantas and the ALAEA in 1983 (When we went to the 38 hour week). The booklet is called “Review of Hours of work 1983”
Item 3.
“….Employees continue to work …..is credited towards the rostered 20th day off”
We are entitled to 20th days. The company already conceded this point 6 months ago with our enforced 8 hour roster. The ALAEA can send you a copy.
It is in a booklet distributed by Qantas and the ALAEA in 1983 (When we went to the 38 hour week). The booklet is called “Review of Hours of work 1983”
Item 3.
“….Employees continue to work …..is credited towards the rostered 20th day off”
We are entitled to 20th days. The company already conceded this point 6 months ago with our enforced 8 hour roster. The ALAEA can send you a copy.
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Sheep in wolf's clothing
I can understand you Perth guys not wanting to lose conditions, but watch the ALAEA doesn't lead up the garden path. Purkvinas says he's pleased with the outcome.?? What? QF keeps the 8hr roster and the union kicks the permanent DMMs off the 12 hr shift they like. You call that a win?
The commish essentially said the ALAEA was was not acting responsibly and their evidence is misleading. If the vice pres of the commish says that, sounds like the ALAEA has no credibility.
Did you read the previous transcripts? How often did you cringe with embarrassment at the ineptitude of Purkvinas and his questions. Purkvinas was embarrassing the ALAEA and we are the ALAEA. Where were the professionals he said you would use in such cases when he bagged the previous union members? Purkvinas says we'll keep taking QF to the commish for everything and QF will eventually give in to whatever we want. That is the thinking of a FOOL! We will not win anything unless it is legit. Not these impossible claims they're making.
Do you really think QF wants to lose contracts and get us off-side? (KP LOST the SIO Singapore contract because he was an arrogant fool. Others were fighting to keep it) QF knows we are their greatest asset. They count on us helping them to run a business efficiently. If they lose the foreign contracts there's not enough work for us and less money coning in. Gee, what can they do? Reduce manpower via retrenchments because they can't afford to pay us to sit on our butts! But Purkvinas doesn't care. He's already put in for redundancy. We're paying him and the others $35 an hr to embarrass us in court. I'm told he even has an ALAEA provided car. (not 100% sure on that one). Word has it that if OUR coffers keep getting milked the way they are, the ALAEA won't be around in 12 months. We'll have to amalgamate with some other union.
Enough for now. I need a beer!
The commish essentially said the ALAEA was was not acting responsibly and their evidence is misleading. If the vice pres of the commish says that, sounds like the ALAEA has no credibility.
Did you read the previous transcripts? How often did you cringe with embarrassment at the ineptitude of Purkvinas and his questions. Purkvinas was embarrassing the ALAEA and we are the ALAEA. Where were the professionals he said you would use in such cases when he bagged the previous union members? Purkvinas says we'll keep taking QF to the commish for everything and QF will eventually give in to whatever we want. That is the thinking of a FOOL! We will not win anything unless it is legit. Not these impossible claims they're making.
Do you really think QF wants to lose contracts and get us off-side? (KP LOST the SIO Singapore contract because he was an arrogant fool. Others were fighting to keep it) QF knows we are their greatest asset. They count on us helping them to run a business efficiently. If they lose the foreign contracts there's not enough work for us and less money coning in. Gee, what can they do? Reduce manpower via retrenchments because they can't afford to pay us to sit on our butts! But Purkvinas doesn't care. He's already put in for redundancy. We're paying him and the others $35 an hr to embarrass us in court. I'm told he even has an ALAEA provided car. (not 100% sure on that one). Word has it that if OUR coffers keep getting milked the way they are, the ALAEA won't be around in 12 months. We'll have to amalgamate with some other union.
Enough for now. I need a beer!
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Sobast, the reality is that management want "cost reduction"
The only way these giants of the business world can work out how to do this is to shrink their business.
If they don't renew contracts they can retrench surplus labour.
They neither want us on or off side, it makes no difference to them.
Once the business has been shrunk down to core QF only, watch for another player in the mix, or perhaps by then part timers on AWAs.
The only way these giants of the business world can work out how to do this is to shrink their business.
If they don't renew contracts they can retrench surplus labour.
They neither want us on or off side, it makes no difference to them.
Once the business has been shrunk down to core QF only, watch for another player in the mix, or perhaps by then part timers on AWAs.
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Yes, they want cost reduction because our aircraft maintenance is pure cost unless you can get contracts so you can make money from maintaining other ops aircraft to help offset the cost of maintaining our own aircraft. More contracts = more profit = more of our costs offset. (simplisticly). BMS has only been making some money the last few years because QF chased the Atlas maint contract and the BA and others' washing contracts. Yeah, they're low on staff but they're working to keep the contracts and the incoming money. I think we all need to realise that if we don't negotiate reasonably and help to retain contracts, our maintenance will become too expensive and QF will have to contract out OUR maintenance.
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Sobast, I mean company puppet
Go spread your bull**** rhetoric somewhere else,
17 billion dollar company and oh whoa is me LAMEs cost too much, our safest airline in history reputation obviously was only due to management input
ITS CLEAR A LINE IN THE SAND HAS BEEN DRAWN
Cmon guys lets step over it
By the way any truth that a piece of sh!t from the east is over in Perth peddlin lies to the LAMEs again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go spread your bull**** rhetoric somewhere else,
17 billion dollar company and oh whoa is me LAMEs cost too much, our safest airline in history reputation obviously was only due to management input
ITS CLEAR A LINE IN THE SAND HAS BEEN DRAWN
Cmon guys lets step over it
By the way any truth that a piece of sh!t from the east is over in Perth peddlin lies to the LAMEs again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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$35 an hour to embarrass us in court! What a bargain. The ALAEA got the result it set out to get. The commissioner covered his arse by saying the ALAEA were unreasonable but he has to rule on the law. QF spent $500 an hour plus on their legal represention.
The association has done the best for their members as their members in perth wished.
The precident is set. A 12 hr agreement is only valid whilst [U]both parties agree[U] and that should be valid across Australia.
Not to hard to go back to 8 hr nation wide if the members vote for it.
It would be bloody Kaos.
I heard the fedsec got offered a scond hand ford focus.
I dont know if he accepted or not.
Rumour has it he said I'd rather walk.
Doesn't like fords apparently.
The association has done the best for their members as their members in perth wished.
The precident is set. A 12 hr agreement is only valid whilst [U]both parties agree[U] and that should be valid across Australia.
Not to hard to go back to 8 hr nation wide if the members vote for it.
It would be bloody Kaos.
I heard the fedsec got offered a scond hand ford focus.
I dont know if he accepted or not.
Rumour has it he said I'd rather walk.
Doesn't like fords apparently.
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This ruling also slows M’s “divide and conquer methods.”
In Perth, he put the LAME’s and SLAME’s on the 8 hour but left the DMM’s where they were. This was M (and the pineapple’s) way of saying to the DMM’s, you help me screw the LAME’s, and I’ll look after you guys.
As for the 4 DMM’s wanting to stay on the 12 hour….
2 of the DMM’s wanted to move to the 8 with the LAME’s but said “we’d get crucified by the company if we demanded that”
They actually wanted the ruling.
In Perth, he put the LAME’s and SLAME’s on the 8 hour but left the DMM’s where they were. This was M (and the pineapple’s) way of saying to the DMM’s, you help me screw the LAME’s, and I’ll look after you guys.
As for the 4 DMM’s wanting to stay on the 12 hour….
2 of the DMM’s wanted to move to the 8 with the LAME’s but said “we’d get crucified by the company if we demanded that”
They actually wanted the ruling.
Last edited by Dick.Hayes; 24th May 2007 at 09:24.
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Congrats to the ALAEA team on their win in the commission.
Congrats to the Perth LAMEs for sticking to their guns and to all east coast LAME's that resist heading to perth to assist QF in slowly screwing down their conditions and pay.
2007 is shaping up to be a vintage year all round.
Congrats to the Perth LAMEs for sticking to their guns and to all east coast LAME's that resist heading to perth to assist QF in slowly screwing down their conditions and pay.
2007 is shaping up to be a vintage year all round.
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Sobast - the joke is on you fool. Having a look at your last posts, most of them were defending the old Executive and Qantas in a thread titled ALAEA Exec to step down. Lets have a look at some of your comments.
"OH that's right! It's the thin end of the wedge. Get a grip. The only wedges around here are the two "men" from MEL and one from SDT on the exec that are stirring up trouble and offering no solutions. They're the ones to kick out. "
Then there is thiscompany line regarding the EBA and those promoting a no vote.
"By the way. Who ever put the VOTE NO stickers up all over the place, watch your stupid arse. You vandalised company property. Qantas wants your arse."
So who is the embarrassment? I'm sure the readers will decide and I have concluded that you are part of the old Executive voted out by an overwhellming majority of members and still spitting out the sour grapes.
So youre not happy about the ALAEA winning a court case? and Mr Purkvinas, the new Federal Seecretary running the case himself at $35 per hour?
What did the old Executive do? They lost every case in 10 years. They couldn't run the cases themselves because they were incompetant. They paid Barristers and QC's big money to lose cases. The Syd HM costing $80,000 alone only to lose. Well done.
"Purkvinas says we'll keep taking QF to the commish for everything and QF will eventually give in to whatever we want. That is the thinking of a FOOL! We will not win anything unless it is legit. Not these impossible claims they're making."
But how could a fool win a court case against the Qantas QC? Obviously what he said got the result they were after. Back down the pub for you. At least the new Federal Secretary is sober.
"OH that's right! It's the thin end of the wedge. Get a grip. The only wedges around here are the two "men" from MEL and one from SDT on the exec that are stirring up trouble and offering no solutions. They're the ones to kick out. "
Then there is thiscompany line regarding the EBA and those promoting a no vote.
"By the way. Who ever put the VOTE NO stickers up all over the place, watch your stupid arse. You vandalised company property. Qantas wants your arse."
So who is the embarrassment? I'm sure the readers will decide and I have concluded that you are part of the old Executive voted out by an overwhellming majority of members and still spitting out the sour grapes.
So youre not happy about the ALAEA winning a court case? and Mr Purkvinas, the new Federal Seecretary running the case himself at $35 per hour?
What did the old Executive do? They lost every case in 10 years. They couldn't run the cases themselves because they were incompetant. They paid Barristers and QC's big money to lose cases. The Syd HM costing $80,000 alone only to lose. Well done.
"Purkvinas says we'll keep taking QF to the commish for everything and QF will eventually give in to whatever we want. That is the thinking of a FOOL! We will not win anything unless it is legit. Not these impossible claims they're making."
But how could a fool win a court case against the Qantas QC? Obviously what he said got the result they were after. Back down the pub for you. At least the new Federal Secretary is sober.