perth qantas engineering
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Love to see some more mgt insights
Latest mgt technique, move lips, block ears, shut eyes, place wheels on goal posts and save face at all costs because the only sad hope now is the millions being squandered in screwing your staff for no benefit can be hidden if they break first.
Considering supervision is inadequate and leave is unable to be taken due manpower shortage and delays are thru the roof due shift How long can it last? The clock is ticking M. How much of the $42mil has been saved?
Is M is short for mmmmmmmmm I should not have done that!?
Considering supervision is inadequate and leave is unable to be taken due manpower shortage and delays are thru the roof due shift How long can it last? The clock is ticking M. How much of the $42mil has been saved?
Is M is short for mmmmmmmmm I should not have done that!?
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A little off topic, but a similar thing (QF management screwing the workers). MEL ramp is not working much OT at the moment and the operation, especially at the end of the day 0100+ is lucky to be running at the moment. Overnight aircraft left with stuff left on board, not sure about bags though. Customer airlines not happy, the list goes on.
Management are trying to say that this is union organised, of which I don't know as I'm no longer there. But my come back to that is, that if the section relies on a considerably large amount of OT to operate normally. I heard a figure of 350-380hrs average (I would believe it from experience) OT for each Ramp staff member so far this financial year. It is not the workers fault, that is a management problem of their own making.
So it sounds like over Easter will be an interesting time in MEL and network wide. On a positive note for QF management, the OT bill has come down.
Management are trying to say that this is union organised, of which I don't know as I'm no longer there. But my come back to that is, that if the section relies on a considerably large amount of OT to operate normally. I heard a figure of 350-380hrs average (I would believe it from experience) OT for each Ramp staff member so far this financial year. It is not the workers fault, that is a management problem of their own making.
So it sounds like over Easter will be an interesting time in MEL and network wide. On a positive note for QF management, the OT bill has come down.
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Why not give the engineer a mobile phone instead of a radio?
Because any PED (portable electronic device) needs to be intrinsically safe in accordance with Australian safety standards. Mobile phones are not. If you drop one and the battery falls off on the concrete tarmac, a spark could occur igniting fuel vapours which tend to hang around the vents at the end of the wings. This would tend to cause an explosion that could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people.
I thought this would be a no brainer but then again as most managers are now accountants it may be a little difficult to work out.
Because any PED (portable electronic device) needs to be intrinsically safe in accordance with Australian safety standards. Mobile phones are not. If you drop one and the battery falls off on the concrete tarmac, a spark could occur igniting fuel vapours which tend to hang around the vents at the end of the wings. This would tend to cause an explosion that could lead to the deaths of hundreds of people.
I thought this would be a no brainer but then again as most managers are now accountants it may be a little difficult to work out.
Of course, if this was really an issue we wouldn't be driving tow motors and the like around aircraft, what with all the sparks and combustion that go on in an engine!
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That is so true, why only just the other day I saw a 747 explode because of such an occurance.
Ahh ignorance in its true form. You can't use mobiles on the tarmac for this very reason. Why don't you try it, stand right under the wing vent as an aircraft is being refueled on a windy 40 degree day just to see what happens. Take the battery on and off until you get a small spark. Test it out and see if you can break procedures put in place by Boeing, maybe your smarter than their design engineers, the Qantas accountants think they are.
While you are at it why not see if you can test some of their other procedures. Why not disable the cargo fire bottles, start a fire in the compartment at thirty thousand feet and see if you can land. Maybe you can do it once and then have all fire bottles removed from all aircraft to save a little more money.
Of course, if this was really an issue we wouldn't be driving tow motors and the like around aircraft, what with all the sparks and combustion that go on in an engine!
The tow motors are designed so they can't produce any ignition source. The sparks and combustion are contained in a special compartment that engineers call an engine. You may have heard of it or you could google it to find out a bit more.
Ahh ignorance in its true form. You can't use mobiles on the tarmac for this very reason. Why don't you try it, stand right under the wing vent as an aircraft is being refueled on a windy 40 degree day just to see what happens. Take the battery on and off until you get a small spark. Test it out and see if you can break procedures put in place by Boeing, maybe your smarter than their design engineers, the Qantas accountants think they are.
While you are at it why not see if you can test some of their other procedures. Why not disable the cargo fire bottles, start a fire in the compartment at thirty thousand feet and see if you can land. Maybe you can do it once and then have all fire bottles removed from all aircraft to save a little more money.
Of course, if this was really an issue we wouldn't be driving tow motors and the like around aircraft, what with all the sparks and combustion that go on in an engine!
The tow motors are designed so they can't produce any ignition source. The sparks and combustion are contained in a special compartment that engineers call an engine. You may have heard of it or you could google it to find out a bit more.
Ahh ignorance in its true form. You can't use mobiles on the tarmac for this very reason. Why don't you try it, stand right under the wing vent as an aircraft is being refueled on a windy 40 degree day just to see what happens. Take the battery on and off until you get a small spark.
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Thanks mahatmacoat, as an experienced Design Engineer myself, I'll stand by my initial comments.
On a slightly different angle, if mobile phones are so dangerous, perhaps you can explain why PAX are allowed to take their mobile phones on board and are trusted to turn them off, lest the plance explode, yet anything more than 100 millilitres of liquid is a terrorist threat?
On a slightly different angle, if mobile phones are so dangerous, perhaps you can explain why PAX are allowed to take their mobile phones on board and are trusted to turn them off, lest the plance explode, yet anything more than 100 millilitres of liquid is a terrorist threat?
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No need to Google it, the requirements for operation of an Australian registered aircraft that is operating in Australian Territory are published with CASA CAO 20.9.
As you will note within Appendix 1 of CAO, the requirement relates to a 15 metre perimeter around fuelling and venting points during fuelling operations.
It really is a carry over of a old requirement when aircraft were primarily using wide cut fuels, DC3's etc, but none the less it remains a regulatory requirement today and must be complied with whether we agree with it or not. Some excemptions ahve been sought and granted but unlikely for your ops.
Reality is that the fuel truck parked near the vent needs only to have it's normal wiring to "good automotive design", so one of the greatest risks is when the driver opens his fuel truck door and the interior light switch activates. As minor risk as it is, this truck is one your greatest risks in the work area during fuelling ops, along with other ramp equipment as mentioned earlier by others.
My earlier comments about use of a mobile phone were in relation to an engineer being required to perform maintenance "on his own", I hadn't considered that you guys were relating to fuelling etc (when there are many people in the same work area). My error.
Not sure what a DMM is in the QF structure (Dept Maint Mgr??), or what the current procedures require, but it all sounds well out of date and well behind modern operations at gate. Sad but true........
Hope you guys come through your changes OK, but from reading these threads it seems you are clinging on to fairly weak arguments. You really need to demonstrate the employee numbers through an accurate account of the daily defect occurences and an accurate account of the ports transit demands (actuals not assumptions or views).
These figures cannot be challenged by your management teams, chart out your transit clashes and highlight the significant drift from schedule that Perth experiences on incoming flights from the East. Demonstrate the defect rectification times and detail the delays prevented due to current engineer numbers.
Despatch reliability is a primary driver today, more so than managers bonusses I bet (well assume as I am not privvy to QF terms).
Good luck.
- M.P.
http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/Cao20/2009.pdf
As you will note within Appendix 1 of CAO, the requirement relates to a 15 metre perimeter around fuelling and venting points during fuelling operations.
It really is a carry over of a old requirement when aircraft were primarily using wide cut fuels, DC3's etc, but none the less it remains a regulatory requirement today and must be complied with whether we agree with it or not. Some excemptions ahve been sought and granted but unlikely for your ops.
Reality is that the fuel truck parked near the vent needs only to have it's normal wiring to "good automotive design", so one of the greatest risks is when the driver opens his fuel truck door and the interior light switch activates. As minor risk as it is, this truck is one your greatest risks in the work area during fuelling ops, along with other ramp equipment as mentioned earlier by others.
My earlier comments about use of a mobile phone were in relation to an engineer being required to perform maintenance "on his own", I hadn't considered that you guys were relating to fuelling etc (when there are many people in the same work area). My error.
Not sure what a DMM is in the QF structure (Dept Maint Mgr??), or what the current procedures require, but it all sounds well out of date and well behind modern operations at gate. Sad but true........
Hope you guys come through your changes OK, but from reading these threads it seems you are clinging on to fairly weak arguments. You really need to demonstrate the employee numbers through an accurate account of the daily defect occurences and an accurate account of the ports transit demands (actuals not assumptions or views).
These figures cannot be challenged by your management teams, chart out your transit clashes and highlight the significant drift from schedule that Perth experiences on incoming flights from the East. Demonstrate the defect rectification times and detail the delays prevented due to current engineer numbers.
Despatch reliability is a primary driver today, more so than managers bonusses I bet (well assume as I am not privvy to QF terms).
Good luck.
- M.P.
http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/Cao20/2009.pdf
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The radios have batteries too - so how do they not spark? They are just commercial Motorola units.
how do you know that they are comerical and not special editions
do you want me to post you the model number or would you like an invoice
On a slightly different angle, if mobile phones are so dangerous, perhaps you can explain why PAX are allowed to take their mobile phones on board and are trusted to turn them off, lest the plance explode, yet anything more than 100 millilitres of liquid is a terrorist threat?
(apoligies to any real barbie designers)
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Are you really a conehead? The motorola units are designed to be intrinsically safe. They are expensive. Qantas uses them. Qantas are tightarses when it comes to buying things. If they COULD use a cheaper alternative, they would.
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This thread seems to have degenerated into a debate about communication devices. WHY ?
Example….
In OZ approx 300 people die each year just falling off a ladder, now if no one is there to see you fall and you are unconscious ,it would not matter what kind of radio or mobile you used, even if you had telepathic powers you would be able to get help because you are unconscious!
Once unconscious immediate first aide is what is required. Properly administered first aid saves lives and can prevent many complications (medically) this is the issue.
I think this is why the Perth are insisting on not working alone...a safety issue and rightly or wrongly it is being used as an industrial tool and probably the only one available to them.
From what I know about the Perth issue all the problems stem from the attitude of the Perth manager. His communication skills are non existent he just uses bullying technique to get his way. Then M comes over from Sydney with his dismissive style and arrogance. I know a few guys were thinking they may have to accept the extended hour roster on offer but after hearing the big M speak it only hardened their resolve.
An alternate roster has been offered to the company by the guys in Perth that has correct coverage has much lower penalties (within 1 % of company roster cost) but the company has refused to look at it.
This is about egos of managers trying to enforce their way rather than use the experience they have on the floor to get a solution to their problem.
Problem is, there is no communication. Just arrogance from managers whom have very little operational experience.
Radios and sparks..
The Motorola radios in SYD are intrinsically safe, same as those used in mining. There are gas seals around the battery contacts so any sparking is contained when the battery is disconnected. Look for the green dot on the radio.
Example….
In OZ approx 300 people die each year just falling off a ladder, now if no one is there to see you fall and you are unconscious ,it would not matter what kind of radio or mobile you used, even if you had telepathic powers you would be able to get help because you are unconscious!
Once unconscious immediate first aide is what is required. Properly administered first aid saves lives and can prevent many complications (medically) this is the issue.
I think this is why the Perth are insisting on not working alone...a safety issue and rightly or wrongly it is being used as an industrial tool and probably the only one available to them.
From what I know about the Perth issue all the problems stem from the attitude of the Perth manager. His communication skills are non existent he just uses bullying technique to get his way. Then M comes over from Sydney with his dismissive style and arrogance. I know a few guys were thinking they may have to accept the extended hour roster on offer but after hearing the big M speak it only hardened their resolve.
An alternate roster has been offered to the company by the guys in Perth that has correct coverage has much lower penalties (within 1 % of company roster cost) but the company has refused to look at it.
This is about egos of managers trying to enforce their way rather than use the experience they have on the floor to get a solution to their problem.
Problem is, there is no communication. Just arrogance from managers whom have very little operational experience.
Radios and sparks..
The Motorola radios in SYD are intrinsically safe, same as those used in mining. There are gas seals around the battery contacts so any sparking is contained when the battery is disconnected. Look for the green dot on the radio.
Last edited by Bolty McBolt; 2nd Apr 2007 at 02:55.
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The solution is simple. The Qantas board have to realise that DCox has let loose a maniac to completely eff up Qantas engineering line stations. They both have to be held accountable and sacked.
Then peace will return and the planes will be serviced on time in a safe manner by happy engineers and the world will be a good place to live.
Murray you're a twit.
Then peace will return and the planes will be serviced on time in a safe manner by happy engineers and the world will be a good place to live.
Murray you're a twit.
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Today at SIT they were looking for scabs to go to Perth for the weekend. Everyone walked out of the meeting with a big up yours. ALAEA notice refers
http://www.alaea.asn.au/CMS/plainTex...g%20Update.pdf
http://www.alaea.asn.au/CMS/plainTex...g%20Update.pdf
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Rumour I heard doing the rounds at Sydney today was that Perth guys were about to cave in and accept the 10.9 hour roster. Mr Harris will be most pleased if that happens. If they do fold who will be the next in his sights?
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Don't know who you are speaking to bung eye but there will never be a 10.9 hour shift in Perth. 8 hour is coming to Melbourne too if M has the balls. It will cost him his job though.
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I have heard that the DMMs in Perth are working 12 hour shifts.
How can this be if QF has withdrawn from the 12 hour shift agreement?
I believe all the other LAME's are working 8 hour shifts in the absence of any extended hours shift agreement, so why not the DMMs too?
I believe Commissioner Rafaelli of the AIRC has even made orders that everyone there must work the 8 hour shift. Could the DMMs that are working 12 hour shifts be in defiance of the AIRC orders and be considered to be taking industrial action? What does the "Work Choices" legislation say about this?
Could anyone shed light on this situation?
How can this be if QF has withdrawn from the 12 hour shift agreement?
I believe all the other LAME's are working 8 hour shifts in the absence of any extended hours shift agreement, so why not the DMMs too?
I believe Commissioner Rafaelli of the AIRC has even made orders that everyone there must work the 8 hour shift. Could the DMMs that are working 12 hour shifts be in defiance of the AIRC orders and be considered to be taking industrial action? What does the "Work Choices" legislation say about this?
Could anyone shed light on this situation?
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If it is QF that is directing its DMMs to work 12 hour shifts when no extended hours agreement exists, I would think that it would be QF that should be copping any fines. Or at least the AIRC should make orders that QF must not direct any of its staff to work in contravention of the existing agreements.
My point is that since QF withdrew from the extended hours shift agreement, there is now no current extended hours agreement in place. When there is no extended hours agreement in place, all staff affected must work 8 hour shifts until a mutually agreeable extended hours agreement is made. QF should not be able pick and choose who continues to work 12 hours and who should have to work 8 hours.
Is there any benefit to QF by them directing DMMs to work 12 hour shifts?
My point is that since QF withdrew from the extended hours shift agreement, there is now no current extended hours agreement in place. When there is no extended hours agreement in place, all staff affected must work 8 hour shifts until a mutually agreeable extended hours agreement is made. QF should not be able pick and choose who continues to work 12 hours and who should have to work 8 hours.
Is there any benefit to QF by them directing DMMs to work 12 hour shifts?