Will Qantas domestic still be around in 10 years.

[brown_magpie]

Hi all,
With the growth in budget airline modeling taking an ever increasing market share withinin the australian domestic scene.
Where do you see your Qantas domestic job in 10 years, will current QF domestic crews be flying on new contracts ...for their budget carrier....
Whats the general consences amongst QF crews with regard to this...
Kind Regards.

[The Riddler]

Maybe the question should be: Will QANTAS, as we know it, be around in 10yrs..

QANTAS Group crystal ball predicts;

Domestic:

lots of silver & orange paint. Little to no red & white.

DJ the carrier of choice over J*

International:

silver & orange paint underneath those QF colours,

market share being lost to extra SQ, CX & EK presence.

[DutchRoll]

Originally Posted by brown_magpie

Hi all,
With the growth in budget airline modeling taking an ever increasing market share withinin the australian domestic scene.

Well, if it's not too much trouble, could you supply sustained evidence of the "ever increasing market share" thingy you mentioned?

Oh, and could you ask what the latest JQ profits versus Qantas domestic/shorthaul profits are?

Oh, and could you also ask what the ancillary and startup costs which JQ as a "Qantas group company" has outlayed themselves through any financial backers, versus the ones which have been cannibalised from QF mainline are?

Oh, and could you ask how JQ has created and developed its route structure?

Oh, and could you ask which market JQ is aiming at, and which market is the most fickle and unpredictable market especially when interest rates and inflation rise, or SARS epidemics strike, or bombs go off in bars, and then ask why JQ would be a good long-term business choice for anyone with half a brain?

Gosh, getting cynical in my old age!

[GUARD]

I say Dutch,

Just happened to see an A330 painted all white when arriving in SY tonight and thought thats all the evidence you need that this outfit doesn't spend a cent and claims all the kudos.

Time will tell whether it works.

I fear Qantas domestic is on the way out and will probably be doing the trunk routes and not much else. I hear Jetstar are supposed to be getting a further 25 A320's.

GUARD

[Keg]

Of course QF domestic will still be here in 10 years time. The question is whether J* coloured aircraft will still be here. I'd be extremally suprised if they are! In a decade (although more likely about six years) the QF domestic fleet will consist of 24 (or more) A320s and a bunch of 787s crewed by J* Wet Leasing and a few 737s crewed by mainline!

The only thing stopping this from occurring is if Aussie pilots finally realise that it is the pilots who are responsible for accepting the crap conditions. I don't hold out much hope given the way that Australian pilots tend to knee cap each other though!

[Pete Conrad]

If the Jetstar model is so good, why hasn't it damaged Virgin like it was predicted? Virgin, for an airline that didn't hedge gas, and didn't get all the handouts that Jetstar got from QF seem to be doing quite well.

All we hear from Jetstar is rhetoric, and thats all they will ever be good at.....because everything that is ever said about them from Dixon and co is positive, whereas everything that is said about QF from Dixon and co is negative. Maybe a change in board will stop that?

QF will still be around, although, if you talk to the Jetstar heros, they will tell you QF's days are numbered and that they are the ones taking over the universe. You only have to look at what the red tail brand contributes towards the group profitability and what Jetstar contributes.

The QF brand is one of four top brands recognised in Australia....the J* brand the last time I looked was nothing but..................??????????

[international hog driver]

Originally Posted by Pete Conrad

The QF brand is one of four top brands recognised in Australia....the J* brand the last time I looked was nothing but..................??????????

A ONE STAR AIRLINE.


J* are simply a vehicle that the brand is using to lower costs / return to low yield markets / screw mainline over.
Once the beancounters come to a figure that says there is no more meat left on mainline bones then the "brand" will start to come back onto the aircraft.

In marketing its BRAND BRAND BRAND...... just look at how tricky dicky controls the Virgin image.

Just like property is POSITION POSITION POSITION, the worst house in the best street is still trumphs.

[Vee Won Kutt]

Farewell to Pprune

What a topic starter from someone for their first post:

Hi all,
With the growth in budget airline modeling taking an ever increasing market share within the Australian domestic scene.
Where do you see your Qantas domestic job in 10 years..blah..blah..blah..

How could the Woomeras let this one through? What happened to probation?? What response do you think this person was after?? Can't this thread be merged with 99% of all other threads on this (now pathetic) forum? Honestly where else did you guys expect this thread to go? Jetstar, Jetstar, Jetstar. The only word that probably appears more in this forum is 'the'! Virtually all posts degenerate to this same topic. This forum has gone beyond a joke - The same people sprouting the same stuff....over and over and over.....

I am glad that it appears very few Australian pilots use this forum. It appears that the bulk of Australian pilots probably are professional and use their time more wisely.

Pete Conrad unsurprisingly made the following remark:

.....if you talk to the Jetstar heros, they will tell you QF's days are numbered and that they are the ones taking over the universe.....

Pete, it seems the Jetstar folk are not the ones making these sorts of remarks, but typically others (such as yourself).

Keg wrote:

The only thing stopping this from occurring is if Aussie pilots finally realise that it is the pilots who are responsible for accepting the crap conditions. I on't hold out much hope given the way that Australian pilots tend to knee cap each other though!

Well said Keg. You do such a great job of trying to bring the 'Australian pilots' together!!

International hog driver wrote:

A ONE STAR AIRLINE.

YAWN!!!!! Seriously mate you obviously have too much spare time.

What do you guys do when you are walking through the terminal and see a Jetstar pilot?? Do you smile nicely and politely nod your head, or do you turn your back on them?? I hope you have enough integrity to turn your back on them, because it's so easy being faceless isn't it? It's an easy trap to fall into, I have done it myself. However by falling into this trap you do absolutely nothing to further unity within the 'Australian pilot' group. You guys, and all the other regular righteous crusaders who regularly post your 'hate' here - good luck to all of you!

There is little point writing anything else in this regard, as virtually every new thread within this forum contains the same regurgitated hate mail, from the same people.

A special tip for many of you who have the 'Jetstar Complex' - save some money on therapy and do what I am about to do: leave Pprune! This site can't be a very healthy pastime for you- How's your blood pressure after all your daily outpourings of hate??

I doubt I am the first (or last to leave). I have not been a 'Ppruner' for very long, but I am Glad to be leaving now! I stopped posting a while ago and will not be returning to view any of your spiteful replies.

To the Woomeras and all the others on this site who do have some integrity (ie Hugh Jarse), or who don't show any of the symptoms of the 'Jetstar Complex' - I am sorry that your little web baby has become such a basket case in this part of the world. I hope that you can salvage something of a worthwhile site.

Now where's my cricket bat?

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

To the Woomeras and all the others on this site who do have some integrity (ie Hugh Jarse), or who don't show any of the symptoms of the 'Jetstar Complex' - I am sorry that your little web baby has become such a basket case in this part of the world. I hope that you can salvage something of a worthwhile site.

Hi VWK. We haven't seen many regulars round here of late, like Jarse. Wonder where they are?
Maybe they feel the same as you?


TDI

[Ultralights]

QF domestic will exist, but it will be silver & orange paint underneath those QF colours...

J* will be re-branded QF in due course. once all staff are on the J* T&C's

[hotnhigh]

On the money MJ:
We believe Jetstar represents a wonderful growth opportunity. It also creates some healthy competitive tension within the Group. As I said, we will invest in
the airline that is able to generate the best returns. This will give us improved flexibility to respond to changes in our markets.

[International Trader]

I believe that QF domestic will only service only the major trunk routes that will connect with a premium international service ( in terms of yield) with wide body aircraft ( MEL,SYD,BNE). Wide bodies will be necessary in any case due availability of landing slots. Don't know about government work into Canberra( they want "first class", you see).The rest will be Orange Brand.
Does it matter what the colour is? Probably Orange.

Certainly the J* vs QF is a done deal with the magaement having split the groups into 2 and each group will be used as a lever against the other. I would have considered separating J* Int (creating 3 groups) as this would have increased the management's bargaining position but, better minds than mine ........

I am interested to see how VB will re-invent itself.

Will it go from a low cost to full service airline?
A big call for such a company that is not willing to invest in infrastructure and probably does not currently have the expertise ( or the $$$ of its own?) to do that.
Will it remain a low cost and fight it out with J* for the profit crumbs?
I see a few disadvantages for people who fly VB compared with J* that can really only be fixed by VB spending $$$ and therefore reducing its profit margin.

Certainly the time for VB was when Ansett folded. Opportunities missed....

Is the job of airline pilot stuffed in Aust?
I dunno but, I last saw it belly up in a steep spiral dive and bleeding uncontrolably.
Pilots are their own worst enemy and with the current government giving the blessing for workplace reform........

Look at it this way, Australia will be a nice place to visit and to retire............if there is anything left.

[Aussie]

I think one day QF will just rename Jetstar to QF but everything else will remain as we know Jet* today

Aussie

[MIss Behaviour]

The more JQ operate domestically, the less opportunity loyal QF frequent flyers have to earn points. Only the highest JQ fare (Jetflex) earns points with all the cheaper fare levels (Jet Saver) not in the race.

Since Ansett's demise it must have really been a bug bear for the rat to have the frequent flyer albatross round it's neck when the main competitor (DJ) doesn't have a similar scheme.

Maybe someone who is familiar with the DJ Velocity program can enlighten us. I'm not sure if it's similar to what AN & QF frequent flyer offered/offers.

[B A Lert]

I am interested to see how VB will re-invent itself.

I would think that they have to invent yourself before re-invention! VB has never known what it is: I think it's trying to be all things to all people and is failing dismally. Try as at may, it just cannot attract the better-off punter and business travellers.

[Ultralights]

Originally Posted by B A Lert

VB has never known what it is: I think it's trying to be all things to all people and is failing dismally. Try as at may, it just cannot attract the better-off punter and business travellers.

VB fits in perfectly between the premium service of QF ( ) and the airborne bus service of J*

think of it as QF is David Jones, Vb are your Coles, Target and K mart shoppers, and J* is Aldi.

If Vb are failing dismally, then why are they doing pretty well with what they have?

i believe if Vb start a small dedicated Business class service, it will be well patronised, i know i would use it, and so would many others, especially now as QF are giving us Choice by forcing all its customers onto J* flights on a ever increasing number of services.

[International Trader]

From what I have seen from the outside, VB are definitely the lowest level of the airline business. Don't they get their F/As from the "Reject Shop"? Looks like it.
Think the Australian traveling public expects more than the pomie holiday moron as seen in the "Airline" TV program.Well they certainly don't like being treated like one of these.
Why dosen't VB understand this?

J* appears to be a more professional operation and therfore to the travelling public, it is.

Personally I would rather not travel on either, if I had a choice.

Back on the QF domestic thread.
QF crews will be pressured by the management until a wage compromise is accepted.They will left on
minimum hours (pay) with a reducing network until this is acheived. QF Int crews and this will also pressure the domestic crews when wide bodies take up all the trunk routes.
Eventually crews will break ranks and join J* for the security of a command in an expanding operation instead of a position in a reducing pool.
Pilots are their own worst enemy.

[Aussie]

J* appears to be a more professional operation and therfore to the travelling public, it is

Must be your opinion mate, because a lot of Prunners out there would disagree!!

Aussie

[max1]

IT,
Given the choice, I prefer to fly on DJ. The attitude of staff is better. If I go into a shop and the staff are so busy putting products on a shelf that they don't have time to help me, I don't bother going there.
Thats how I now feel about Qantas. Maybe, I've just been unlucky. The DJ crowd are friendly. I don't want brass bands and cheerleaders, just be treated as if my patronage is appreciated rather than an inconvenience.

[binrow]

qf dom flying 737 finished in 5 to 8 years , maggots to old to keep going

new qf dom flying a320 (approx 50 a/c) started several years ago soon to be wearing red and white , orange and silver was only a way to screw staff cost down.
possably 787 (10 a/c) flying eastern seaboard capitals and perth.

qf int to LA, london, SA, and any other preimium paying destination with 747-8/a380? 787 to everywhere else in orange/silver till qf management can suck the punters into paying qf faresthen repainted in red and white.

fleet will be a320,787,747-8 or a380

and the smokey 777