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CASA reply to PPRuNe email re TVL.

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CASA reply to PPRuNe email re TVL.

Old 2nd Apr 2005, 10:30
  #101 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: International
Posts: 322
Well, Bizpax, perhaps we wait to see whether it is the destruction of a regulator, or necessary reform which is way overdue.

Something seems to be happening in CASA Townsville office with rumour of a new Team Leader?
Air Ace is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2005, 20:25
  #102 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 148
Air Ace, have heard same.
Stink Finger is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2005, 03:00
  #103 (permalink)  

Check Attitude
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 470

As has been explained or observed before, there seems to be serious problems within CASA
and they appear to be more manifest in the North Queensland Area Office.

The Director has to contend with numerous problems and has attempted reform.
He has, however, encountered the informal power subcultures that exist,
and their propensity to collectively unite, resist and ignore him.

He has identified some, but not all subcultures, and taken the necessary hard line
to exterminate the leaders of the counter culture when they became identifiable.

The three Head Office sackings are testimony to that decisive action.

Yes, CASA may need to destroy itself in order to rebuild into a trustworthy, professional and ethical regulator.
This appears to be what the Keewee's have accomp[lished.

NZ deteriorated to a similar stage to where we have managed, then rebuit from the ground up.
The result is a robust and growing Aviation Industry that mocks the decline of Australian Aviation.

So if we need to go through the pain of such a rebirth, such a high velocity culture change, then so be it.

Informal power structures exist within CASA and effectively inhibit the reformation of the proper formal power structure.

Byron, if he wasn't aware before, is certainly aware now.

He will, with help, identify and neutralise those informal bastions of resistance.

The OLC, for instance, may indeed have such a subculture thriving within,
growing comfortable with doing things their way, rather than considering how they need to be done.

The use of the cryptic and the metaphor are often necessary tools to point the Director into areas that may need scrutiny.

Evil does lurk within the corridors of power and always will.
Curtailing it or controlling it will assist the reform process.

If you, as you have previously claimed, are on the outside looking in, i.e. not in the industry or the regulator,
you will ultimately benefit, as a bizpax, from the rebirth of CASA into an ethical and accountable organisation.

Be assured that the truth will ultimately and always prevail.

Byron will reform CASA, or will be seen as yet another highly paid failure, a long list indeed.

If something is happening in Townsville, that can only be good news,
unless Pinnochio has been elevated to TLFO, that would be a tragedy and perpetuate the problems of old.

One can only hope that the long time protector of the miscreants has finally been identified and disciplined.

And finally, let's hope the AM NQAO survived the tribal council.

He is needed elsewhere in CASA if he managed to effect genuine reform in Townsville.
He has a lot more similar work lined up for him.

explanation proffered and ended.
Mainframe is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2005, 10:01
  #104 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 153
hear, hear, Mainframe.

Thought you were going to have a nap until something definite has happened?

Anyway, heard a rumour the TLFO is probably on his way to Canberra in a new position,

If there's any truth in this, and it's a promotion, it is a black day for reform.

Let's wait and see what's really happening.

Until then, you can go back to sleep as promised.
Captain Starlight is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2005, 08:03
  #105 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2002
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NZ deteriorated to a similar stage to where we have managed, then rebuilt from the ground up.
True, we did have our problems, though not to the same extent you guys seem to have.

To say it was rebuilt from the ground up is overstating things a bit.

Unfortunately there are still a few "problem" people left, but things are certainly much better now than they were a few years ago.
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Old 21st Apr 2005, 03:58
  #106 (permalink)  
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Getting it right

Dear Nicola,

I notice your comment on regulatory affairs via this forum as a CASA representative. Your office's goal appears to remain one of convincing the Minister, the industry, the Parliament and the (non-technical) media that nothing’s wrong at CASA, therefore nothing needs to be changed – in the apparent tradition of CASA Public Affairs. Mine (as well as others’) is to demonstrate to them that the this is not the case. My comments on some of your assertions:

“I would like to note a key word here - allegations.”

Trivialising the issues which various people have validly raised by emphasising the word “allegations” reminds many industry identities of an occasion in which CASA actually published ten totally unsubstantiated allegations against an operator on its web site, which was the first shot in an eventually successful campaign to demolish a well-conducted and reputable business. At the same time CASA admitted that they were no more than “allegations” by explaining that the suspension of the operator’s AOC (ultimately for three successive periods) was for the purpose of investigating them (i.e. they remained “allegations” because they had not even been investigated.) The final outcome of this issue in the courts, is a matter of history which reflects no credit at all on CASA. If you check with the OLC you will doubtless be provided with a countervailing interpretation of the realities springing from the court hearing. Perhaps you could also ask Mr Anastasi and his colleagues what consideration a certificate holder’s response to a “show cause” letter would received, if it pointed out that the assertions made were “only allegations” as so many such assertions are.

“The significant conclusion of the Skehill report was that the evidence did not support the allegations that had been raised.”

You and I must have read two different versions of the same report. Your comment is dismissive and not in accord with any intelligent interpretation of the text of the report, which was prepared by a lawyer frequently engaged by CASA to conduct such inquiries and which (according to Mr Byron’s advice to a Senate inquiry) cost “approximately $50,000. Many individuals in the industry, including myself, accurately forecast the outcome of the inquiry.

“I am concerned however that a number of the matters posted about CASA's actions date from some significant time in the past.”

The relevance of that statement is difficult to understand. Everything that has happened since the beginning of the world is now “in the past,” regardless of whether it happened ten seconds, ten hours, ten months or ten years ago. There is no statute of limitations in the industry’s corporate mind; an injustice remains an injustice until it is reversed. The issue is whether the people who committed the unjust act, or who irresponsibly allowed it to be committed, are still in a position to do so again. In many cases they are, and it is my intention to expose their acts and identities in well-documented detail.

People and organisations whose lives and businesses have been or are being destroyed by various well-recognised practices amounting to apparent misconduct, will not be adequately consoled by your statement that the relevant events occurred “in the past.” This will especially be the case when they are made aware that the people – and the CASA “culture” – which facilitated them are still in place; that apparently nothing has been done to prevent these individuals from committing future similar misconduct; that nobody within CASA has been disciplined; and that as CASA’s representative you feel compelled to deny – or decline to admit - that any misconduct at all has occurred.

Of particular concern has been the practice of advising the commercial clients of AOC holders that various allegations against them were being “investigated,” which has caused the cancellation of contracts, whether the allegations were proven or not. In at least two cases, the allegations proved to be false, and arose only because of incompetence amounting to negligence on the part of CASA and/or its employees.

Take a hypothetical example:
    ……. might such a chain of events not constitute misconduct which (having caused the operator serious financial loss) would support legal action for damages against both the staff member and his employer?

    To quote a legal opinion already in CASA’s hands on a similar issue:

    “This [proposal] would give rise to considerable exposure to defamation actions, and to possible liability, particularly if the defence of qualified privilege is not available. CASA would be covered by the Indemnity in relation to defamation actions as with various other actions which may be brought (eg negligence, including negligent misstatement, breach of confidence, injurious falsehood, misfeasance in public office etc). However, the Indemnity will not apply in favour of a CASA officer, where the officer is guilty of serious or wilful misconduct.”

    It would seem that parties to the investigation would be out on their own in such a hypothetical circumstance, which might be a deterrent for any individual tempted to cut corners in their inordinate haste to put someone out of business.

    The same could also hypothetically apply to negligent misstatements in support of the withdrawal of a chief pilot or training & checking approval.

    In some instances, not only negligence and liability for it, but also the question of criminality, should be investigated. One would suggest that the appropriate investigation agency in such a situation would not be a lawyer under contract to CASA, but the Australian Federal Police.

    The role of CASA Public Affairs – past and present - must also be examined in such issues. You will probably note that in this forum, people are far more aviation-aware than the Minister, DOTRS, the non-technical media, and the general public. I wish you well in your endeavour to convince them there's nothing wrong.


    Paul Phelan

    Last edited by Paul Phelan; 21st Apr 2005 at 04:14.
    Paul Phelan is offline  
    Old 21st Apr 2005, 13:19
      #107 (permalink)  
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Location: Sydney
    Posts: 148
    Media Release from Mr Rum Airways: I hate Stink Finger.

    not much different to the Nixon PR approach, Deny Deny Deny didn't quite work did it ?.

    Nicola, BB, as PP has pointed out, by trying to wash what has happened in the, for us, not too distant past, under the carpet is not a path we will accept.

    As is happening to some extent, things need to change and past wrongs need to be righted.

    If a Comm Fleet staff member is caught stealing fuel, they are terminated immediately, this is not different from a CASA FOI financially benefiting from his yearly flying budget, isn't each of these flights approved by the TLFO, hmmmm.

    Let me assure you a number of us are in contact with federal government members and passing our concerns on, this is being watched, your next Proof Committee Hansard of the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee's hearing may be an ambush if these problems are not delt with by then, i'm sure you've thought of this.

    I am very positive about the new ideas and new faces, but there are still these " sub cultures " that will eventually revert to their prefered under handed existence, get rid of the dead wood.

    The issue identified here re: FOI HC clearly indicates either you've misread/ represented the Skehill report or Mr Skehill changed his mind after his visit to TL, a rather large inconsistency i feel.
    Stink Finger is offline  
    Old 22nd Apr 2005, 01:29
      #108 (permalink)  
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    Location: australia
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    Skehill Report?

    Are we missing something here? How can this report be completed when he did not even speak to the operators? How does he get a balanced account of CASA's actions when he only speaks to CASA?
    Hardly worth responding to Nicola's letter as it is the same old propagander machine churning out the BS.

    My two cents worth!

    Well said Paul.
    As always you\'ve hit the nail on the head.
    natbanger is offline  
    Old 22nd Apr 2005, 03:10
      #109 (permalink)  

    Don Quixote Impersonator
    Join Date: Jul 1999
    Location: Australia
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    Missed this but does anyone have any feedback on it??

    CASA Media Release - Monday, 18 April 2005
    Better air safety for FNQ
    Improving air safety in Far North Queensland is the aim of a series of special seminars being held in Cairns this week.

    Pilots, engineers and airline managers will come together to polish their aviation safety skills.

    The Civil Aviation Safety Authority is hosting the three-day air safety summit, which will attract aviation people from throughout Far North Queensland.

    Key safety issues will be in the spotlight - including fatigue, pilot training, local weather, aircraft icing, aircraft maintenance, operations in controlled airspace and airspace changes.

    The seminars are an important initiative to maintain and improve the region’s air safety record.

    CASA spokesman Peter Gibson says Queensland has 32 per cent of Australia’s fatal general aviation accidents.

    “Over a decade Queensland recorded 63 fatal light aircraft crashes,” Mr Gibson says.

    “A number of these accidents happened in Far North Queensland, making these safety seminars very important.

    “Pilots, engineers and airline managers must continue to learn and improve their skills, as the key to better air safety is better performance by people.

    “This week’s seminars are an essential part of the ongoing national efforts by both CASA and the aviation industry to lift air safety to even higher standards.”

    Seminars are targeted at private and commercial pilots, flying instructors and aircraft engineers.

    A total of 10 seminars will be held over the three days, starting on Monday 18 April.

    The venue for all the seminars is: Cairns Aviation Skills Centre, 1 Tom MacDonald Drive, Cairns Airport.
    gaunty is offline  
    Old 22nd Apr 2005, 23:46
      #110 (permalink)  

    Check Attitude
    Join Date: Nov 2001
    Location: Queensland, Australia
    Posts: 470

    Nothing special about the forums, they were scheduled.
    The TLFO was part of the team, should he have anything to contribute in the interests of Safety?

    He is essentially an enforcer and prosecutor, NOT a safety educator.
    (The accident statistics for his region are a damning credential as to his contribution to safety)


    The investigation into the conduct of the TLFO by SMJ, CASA's legal consulting firm,
    was a blatant misuse of $50,000 of taxpayer's money.

    The Senate estimates committee needs to be ever vigilant as to the possibility of funding misconduct.

    Any investigation into the conduct of this person should not have focussed on a specific incident in isolation,
    but rather, taken into account the broad and documented history of the person's total history of misconduct.

    That broad investigation would have included all affected pilots, all affected operators, all AAT transcripts and all affected CASA staff.

    Then, and only then, may the true character of what may be a psychopathic misfit be properly revealed.

    A Royal Commission could profitably start and gain considerable momentum merely in the NQAO.
    The modus operandi would be then found in other offices, but not always embraced with the relentless zeal of the NQAO.


    Nice to see you back, thought ASIO must have finally eliminated you, the quest for your identity is quite real.

    As has been previously observed in these forums, the informal subcultures will defeat Byron as surely as they did Smith and Toller.

    Byron is not so naive as to deny their existence and he has acted appropriately when confronted,
    but he has not and cannot eliminate them.

    The entrenched networking and determination of the recalcitrants will defeat any director of CASA.

    There cannot and will not be any reform of CASA unless the organisation is totally destroyed and carefully reassembled.

    There was no problem with the Skehill report.

    For $50,000 the required result was obtained, (Hansard)
    his terms of reference deliberately limited to view a matter in isolation,
    rather than to assess the sordid history of misconduct in it's entireity.

    Somehow this borders on corruption.
    As you stated, a Federal Police investigation may have been more appropriate for a lot of matters
    concerning the behaviour and conduct of certain members of the NQAO and the OLC.

    AAT transcripts would provide an excellent insight into the ruthless and lawless deception and dishonesty perpetrated.


    Maintain the rage and indignation.

    Public exposure of the "facts and circumstances", to use CASA's own terminology,
    is the only way to bring honesty and accountability to a Public Service entity
    that might be displaying open signs of corruption and incompetence.


    You might still have a few problem people left, but the NZers managed to achieve a cultural change
    that arrested the decline and refocussed your Dept in the right direction.

    Bruce Byron would do well to give your country a visit and learn what steps were taken to clean up a degenerating regulator.

    Even if you are not convinced as to degree of change implemented,
    you would have agree that it is much better than it was prior to change and you would not wish to revert.

    Last edited by Mainframe; 24th Apr 2005 at 05:11.
    Mainframe is offline  
    Old 23rd Apr 2005, 11:02
      #111 (permalink)  
    Join Date: Mar 2001
    Location: Perth
    Posts: 842
    "Eliminated" ?, seems a little paranoid.

    I would imagine CASA does not have these sort of resources at hand, why could CASA care what is being bought up ?, if there is truth in whats being said here wouldn't BB be relieved to have the problems dealt with ASAP, on his terms ?.

    Perhaps the individuals discussed above would care, that hardly quantitifies an investigation.

    I guess BB might like to know if Stinky is one of his own.

    CASA does not appear to be the direct issue, but the individuals, who happen to presently work for CASA, in my eyes these are hugely different topics.
    Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower is offline  
    Old 23rd Apr 2005, 15:29
      #112 (permalink)  

    Check Attitude
    Join Date: Nov 2001
    Location: Queensland, Australia
    Posts: 470

    Sorry mate, you would be quite surprised at the enterprise CASA can muster in pursuit of it's agendas.

    paranoid may refer to delusion, you are reminded that CASA successfully intercepted emails in the Midstate witch hunt.

    And lastly, unless you have a high degree of internet protection,
    you may be surprised at the incidence of visible attempted penetrations,
    Norton Internet Security will , via "visual tracking", identify the source of attempted port penetration.

    You may be surprised at the Federal Government offices in Canberra and Melbourne that launch
    attacks on your computer, if you do not have top level software such as Norton internet Security,
    you may not realise how often your pc is challenged.

    You may already be challenged and compromised.

    Paranoid? No!
    Due Diligence? Yes.
    Mainframe is offline  
    Old 24th Apr 2005, 01:47
      #113 (permalink)  
    Join Date: Jan 2005
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    Hee Haw!

    I agree with the Rock chucker.

    You bin watchin too much X Files Mainblame!!
    Cousin Cletus is offline  
    Old 26th Apr 2005, 05:01
      #114 (permalink)  
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Location: Sydney
    Posts: 148
    Hee Haw

    I have spoken to the relevant CASA managers and Federal Members, they don't care who any of us are, Is there truth in what is being said here, they are very interested in.

    So, investigation, in this particular case is the 4 we've mentioned rattling cages ( the investigator of the Pinnochio / JL interview incidents has recently been very interested for obvious reasons ).

    Midstate, intercepted emails my big toe, this information came from disgruntled staff.

    What is worth investigation is the rumour that Cousin Cleatus was the shooter on the grassy knowle, yes I firmly believe there was a second shooter.

    Stinky has not worked for CASA for many many years ( even that's debatable in itself ), so yes all the information being presented is common knowledge amongst certain circles.
    Stink Finger is offline  
    Old 26th Apr 2005, 09:45
      #115 (permalink)  
    Join Date: Jan 1999
    Location: Queensland
    Posts: 2,394
    natbanger. You missed the point entirely old son!!

    No one said anything about a complete, balanced report. He who pays $50,000 for a "Report" usually has a vested (or invested) interest in the outcome.

    I would think at that price, CASA got exactly the report it wanted - and expected.
    Torres is offline  
    Old 28th Apr 2005, 23:01
      #116 (permalink)  
    Join Date: Dec 2004
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    Cousin Clit,
    to quote a previous post:

    Can you play a banjo?

    or marinate a mackeral?

    several shooters were sited or sighted in the vicinity of the knoll.

    Thanks for explaining how CASA intercepted private emails,
    par for the course in the disregard for the law in securing a conviction.
    My information was that a certain TL based former spook has impressive internet skills
    aquired in a his former career and has openly boasted about his capabilities.
    Cousin Clit, not the X Files, the ex spook is well known but pleased to know he was not the intermediary.

    Pinnochio's time will come, this compulsive prevaricator was taped and witnessed
    practising his specialty on at least three occasions.

    Torres, the amount of public money squandered in sponsoring the gentlemanly sport of bastardry
    would make interesting reading when the Royal Commission gathers all the "Facts and Circumstances"
    and even the reputable "Allegations".

    The magnitude of the misconduct is only surpassed by the magnitude of the effort and expense marshalled
    to suppress the truth and protect the perpetrators.

    I am of the firm belief that the truth will, as has been stated many times, always ultimately prevail.
    And I also subscribe to the swinging pendulum theory.

    The trail left by the miscreants is so obvious that even an "independant internal investigation" (oxymoron?)
    could not help but stumble over it.

    The collective will of the CASA subcultures to hide,suppress, condone is not to be underestimated.
    The informal power subcultures will continue to mock and frustrate any genuine attempt at CASA reform.

    The conduct emanating from the NQAO and other regional offices is silent testimony to their capability to defy,
    and a sad reflection on BB's or any other future director's ability to steer CASA back on course.
    Captain Starlight is offline  
    Old 29th Apr 2005, 00:01
      #117 (permalink)  

    Check Attitude
    Join Date: Nov 2001
    Location: Queensland, Australia
    Posts: 470
    Capt Starlight

    What can I say?

    Once sufficient "facts and circumstances" can be collated,
    maybe it's time for an external investigation, preferably by the AFP.

    And I might win Lotto also.

    One needs to be a criminal to catch a criminal.
    unfortunately most of us are decent, honest and law abiding citizens.

    Anyway, the thought of CASA fixing the problem is nothing but the makings of a pleasant dream, so it's back to sleep for me.

    Wake me when justice has been seen to be done, and lets not waste any more of my taxes on specially tailored investigative reports.

    Mainframe is offline  
    Old 29th Apr 2005, 03:09
      #118 (permalink)  

    Don Quixote Impersonator
    Join Date: Jul 1999
    Location: Australia
    Age: 73
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    Paranoid? No!
    Not at all!
    I have direct evidence of seriously innapropriate activity supported by witnesses in another matter, not CASA, but by an individual from another agency that is supposed to be protecting our telecoms.

    Captain Starlight
    former spook has impressive internet skills
    see above, it doesn't sound like the same one especially if as you allege he was working for CASA, but, I have other evidence of what most would assume was highly innapropriate activity by a said former spook and current Federal employee using such skills.

    One can only wonder at the quality of said spooks if they volunteer their past in any way and if in fact they really were . I thought they were supposed to kill you. Walter Mitty is still alive you know.
    If they were in fact, then it is doubly scary.
    gaunty is offline  
    Old 29th Apr 2005, 11:40
      #119 (permalink)  
    Join Date: Dec 2004
    Location: Brisbane
    Posts: 153

    Thank you for being one of the illuminati.

    A previous post speculated on the enterprise CASA could muster.
    Whether it comes to dirty tricks,
    or protecting it's own, it is still quite impressive, as BB has discovered.

    However, I did not allege the said spook worked for CASA, nor did the said spook discuss his past.

    When certain people visit certain restricted sites in Australia on a regular basis, it may be assumed
    that possibly, they may be amongst the inner circle.

    Given that the potential spook resides in that den of infamy, YBTL,
    a little licence is permissable
    when one learns that a certain CASA miscreant from YBTL has gained access to personal emails,
    it is not drawing too long a bow to conclude that special skills may have been employed to intercept emails.

    As you have knowledge that they were aquired from a disgruntled employee, that cancels the supposition.

    Your comments on clandestine internet activity mirrors my experience,
    you (and other readers) may be interested in a no-charge facility available from Norton / Symantec.

    If you have Norton Internet Security installed,
    you can download and subscribe free to a Norton/Symantec product called "Deep Sight Extractor"

    This product interfaces with NIS and Symantec extract statistical data
    regarding full details of all hacking attempts on your computer.

    This project is aimed at identifying areas of high hacking activity and tracks the source.
    You do not normally get advice on what has been determined, but besides some of the fed activity in Oz,
    there is a large amount of hacking emanating from Bulgaria, India and Korea, things most of us are aware of.

    Symantec will collate the data, esp IP identifying features, and improve their product to recognise known hacking IP's.

    If you doubt any of this, I challenge any of you to disable your anti virus and firewall products for a week
    and see if you haven't been probed, infiltrated and exploited or contaminated with a trojan horse, virus or worm.

    anyway, believe it or not, there are some nasty things happening,
    and the good guys in casa are not really able to do anything about it.

    The nasty ones are compromising the good guys in CASA, the rot is deep and widespread.

    However, there are many committed to exposing the crims, and they will, eventually. (and the upward trail in their network as well.)
    Captain Starlight is offline  
    Old 29th Apr 2005, 12:55
      #120 (permalink)  

    Don Quixote Impersonator
    Join Date: Jul 1999
    Location: Australia
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    Captain Starlight
    As you have knowledge that they were aquired from a disgruntled employee, that cancels the supposition.
    no to be fair to CASA I did not say it was from a former disgruntled CASA employee but from somone from another agency.

    That they live or lived in the same town and may well share the same "views and exchange information" is for someone else to determine.

    As that wonderful character Francis Urquhart played by Ian Richardson in that classic series "The House of Cards" trilogy, says's "you may well say that, but I couldn't possibly comment." = true.

    Richardson said he modelled the character on Shakespeares' Richard III.

    If you haven't seen it get it out on video it demonstrates evil incarnate being practised in plain sight. I'm sure you will recognise many of the characters.

    Having said that B1 and B2 need our continued support they have a difficult job are determined to to do it they just need people to give them the evidence or where to find it.

    I'd be surprised if there would be fireworks as a result, that is not the way it works, but their will be action, without bringing the house down around their ears. Walk softly and carry a big stick.

    They have the full support of the Minister.
    gaunty is offline  

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