CASA reply to PPRuNe email re TVL.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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The aircraft is sorta serviceable and we are doing a sorta RPT run :(
Creampuff
My only question is how come it took CASA so long to shut em down?
Other observations might be;
That a gazillion hours as a pilot can often mean very little at all.
It seems duck shoving, dissembling and delusion has been raised to an exquisite art form.
speaks volumes and is the least of it.
Scary stuff.
Whatever the mining company was paying their aviation consultant if they had one was waaaay too much. If they hadn't got one by then duty of care says they should have? If you can find one who actually knows of which he speaks.
Then duty of care says Qld Education need an active and fully documented aviation policy and we wont even go near the recent Medical Dept accident that took out a bunch of their senior medicos.
Is Mr Phelan suggesting that this type of operation was being victimised by CASA.
bushy what is commercial regulation in this case ?
My only question is how come it took CASA so long to shut em down?
Other observations might be;
That a gazillion hours as a pilot can often mean very little at all.
It seems duck shoving, dissembling and delusion has been raised to an exquisite art form.
Mr Gill was critical of the pilot who noted this apparent defect, because the problem had been rectified on a previous occasion. According to Mr Gill, it was clear that the pilot, upon noticing a blistering of the fibreglass mistakenly took this to mean that the exhaust was burning a hole.
speaks volumes and is the least of it.Scary stuff.
Whatever the mining company was paying their aviation consultant if they had one was waaaay too much. If they hadn't got one by then duty of care says they should have? If you can find one who actually knows of which he speaks.
Then duty of care says Qld Education need an active and fully documented aviation policy and we wont even go near the recent Medical Dept accident that took out a bunch of their senior medicos.
Is Mr Phelan suggesting that this type of operation was being victimised by CASA.
bushy what is commercial regulation in this case ?
Bushy:
If it’s RPT that doesn’t meet RPT standards, the passengers are exposed to risks to which they are lawfully and morally entitled not to be exposed.
It’s the regulatory distinction between charter and RPT that is based on commercial considerations and indefensible on safety grounds.
Gaunty: don’t get me started!
If it’s RPT that doesn’t meet RPT standards, the passengers are exposed to risks to which they are lawfully and morally entitled not to be exposed.
It’s the regulatory distinction between charter and RPT that is based on commercial considerations and indefensible on safety grounds.
Gaunty: don’t get me started!
Check Attitude
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Creampuff and Bushy,
Although on different flight paths, you're both actually converging to the same destination.
The role of the regulator and which regulator regulates which operator is entirely relevant.
If you are a Moorabbin or Essendon AOC holder operating in FNQ,
it is unlikely that the FNQ regulator has visited or surveilled you.
It appears that the regulator assigned to the base office AOC holder has the sole prerogative of surveillance.
Like wise if you operate under a capital city regional airline office of the regulator, then the FNQ regulators don't look at you.
Despite the mix of AOC origins that operate full time in FNQ,
the FNQ regulators only shine the torch on their own assigned operators.
This modus operandi effectively dilutes the effectiveness of any surveillance, it penalises some local operators,
and places them at a commercial disadvantage to those full time FNQ operators not assigned to the FNQAO.
Creamy, the tried and tested "travel agent" loophole may well be still alive and still popular.
The "RPT service" is still operating, company A is now using company C, while company B is left holding the can.
Your original "RPT" detectives would have a field day.
Company A grew out of the demise of Wingz North and Coral Sea Air.
MK was heavily involved until last year.
We await the reforms, the level playing field, the fair and impartial treatment and any other silly impediments to the displayed real agenda of the regulator.
Although on different flight paths, you're both actually converging to the same destination.
The role of the regulator and which regulator regulates which operator is entirely relevant.
If you are a Moorabbin or Essendon AOC holder operating in FNQ,
it is unlikely that the FNQ regulator has visited or surveilled you.
It appears that the regulator assigned to the base office AOC holder has the sole prerogative of surveillance.
Like wise if you operate under a capital city regional airline office of the regulator, then the FNQ regulators don't look at you.
Despite the mix of AOC origins that operate full time in FNQ,
the FNQ regulators only shine the torch on their own assigned operators.
This modus operandi effectively dilutes the effectiveness of any surveillance, it penalises some local operators,
and places them at a commercial disadvantage to those full time FNQ operators not assigned to the FNQAO.
Creamy, the tried and tested "travel agent" loophole may well be still alive and still popular.
The "RPT service" is still operating, company A is now using company C, while company B is left holding the can.
Your original "RPT" detectives would have a field day.
Company A grew out of the demise of Wingz North and Coral Sea Air.
MK was heavily involved until last year.
We await the reforms, the level playing field, the fair and impartial treatment and any other silly impediments to the displayed real agenda of the regulator.
Last edited by Woomera; 25th May 2005 at 07:13.
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Cousin C,
If championing the cause of Truth and Justice is a form of insanity,
then I plead guilty.
I note that you have not yet made a worthwhile contribution, but seem to prefer throwing stones from the sidelines.
If you are with the regulator, I understand the shame you must feel with the conduct of a small group of your colleagues.
If championing the cause of Truth and Justice is a form of insanity,
then I plead guilty.
I note that you have not yet made a worthwhile contribution, but seem to prefer throwing stones from the sidelines.
If you are with the regulator, I understand the shame you must feel with the conduct of a small group of your colleagues.
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WHAT AUSTRALIA DESPARATELY NEEDS, AND WHAT THEY ARE DESPARATELY TRYING TO PREVENT
Have a look at www.sats.com and click on "take off to Danville"
Sorry, that should have been www.sats2005.com
Have a look at www.sats.com and click on "take off to Danville"
Sorry, that should have been www.sats2005.com
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Rumour has it, and that is why we are here, that Ronald ( the holder of one of very few ADF Distinguished paper work medals ), has been given a very small list of options by the new GA branch:
1. redundancy,
2. relocate ( NT's nice this time of year ),
3. removal.
I feel it is sad this has had too happen, why did it take so long, there has been untold ( in most part ) damage done to many many organisations.
Heres to a new day.
A new TLFO, hopefully lessons of the past will not be forgotten.
Cousin Cletus,
What is your interest in this topic other than attempting to make it look like a Three Ring Circus ?, as has been said many times, truth will prevail.
There are still many more deeds of "Over Permformance" to be presented to this public forum, does this concern you ?.
1. redundancy,
2. relocate ( NT's nice this time of year ),
3. removal.
I feel it is sad this has had too happen, why did it take so long, there has been untold ( in most part ) damage done to many many organisations.
Heres to a new day.
A new TLFO, hopefully lessons of the past will not be forgotten.
Cousin Cletus,
What is your interest in this topic other than attempting to make it look like a Three Ring Circus ?, as has been said many times, truth will prevail.
There are still many more deeds of "Over Permformance" to be presented to this public forum, does this concern you ?.
Last edited by Stink Finger; 3rd Jun 2005 at 08:10.
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Stink Finger
This has the makings of a good rumour, if only it were true.
If true, it marks the end of a reign of terror,
characterised by bullying, bastardry, harassment, lying,
deceiving, intimidating, undermining, perverting, slandering,
conspiring, corrupting,distorting,embellishing and other acts that led to over 700 complaints.
If there really is an option of him moving to another region, then CASA has effectively condoned this misfit's psychotic behaviour.
By all means give him a golden handshake, there's going to be a queue forming
as to who is going to sue him first, and he'll need a little change for that.
If this rumour is true, thank you to those who had the cojones to do what had to be done,
and what everyone else has avoided doing.
And finally, Byron's reform program has gained some credibility.
On that note, now start identifying and bringing to heel this misfit's protectors.
And let's ensure that Pinoccio is next off the rank and on his way, driving a taxi, delivering pizzas,
mowing lawns or some job out of aviation, where he has so miserably failed.
When this rumour is actually confirmed, there will be some quiet reassmbling of ruined lives,
ruined businesses, and maybe, just maybe, a celebration.
Drum Batman and Robin out of the regiment, publicly.
Then send a signal to the rogue element elsewhere that it's over, conform or leave, that simple.
Please God, let this rumour be true?
This has the makings of a good rumour, if only it were true.
If true, it marks the end of a reign of terror,
characterised by bullying, bastardry, harassment, lying,
deceiving, intimidating, undermining, perverting, slandering,
conspiring, corrupting,distorting,embellishing and other acts that led to over 700 complaints.
If there really is an option of him moving to another region, then CASA has effectively condoned this misfit's psychotic behaviour.
By all means give him a golden handshake, there's going to be a queue forming
as to who is going to sue him first, and he'll need a little change for that.
If this rumour is true, thank you to those who had the cojones to do what had to be done,
and what everyone else has avoided doing.
And finally, Byron's reform program has gained some credibility.
On that note, now start identifying and bringing to heel this misfit's protectors.
And let's ensure that Pinoccio is next off the rank and on his way, driving a taxi, delivering pizzas,
mowing lawns or some job out of aviation, where he has so miserably failed.
When this rumour is actually confirmed, there will be some quiet reassmbling of ruined lives,
ruined businesses, and maybe, just maybe, a celebration.
Drum Batman and Robin out of the regiment, publicly.
Then send a signal to the rogue element elsewhere that it's over, conform or leave, that simple.
Please God, let this rumour be true?
Check Attitude
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Stink Finger and Starlight
About time.
Check my post in the YLHR GPS/NPA thread regarding the five year fatality rate for the NQAO.
How about 52 fatalities ?
As I stated there, the evidence is glaringly obvious, there is NO obvious emphasis on safety,
just an overwhelming desire to write up as many RCA's, ASIR's as possible, and the pursuit of personal vendettas,
against their own staff and selected operators.
When the new AM, AC, gets rid of the problem and its devotees,
he will continue with his established desire to
consult, mentor, encourage, and where necessary dsicipline.
Once trust, confidence and respect has been fully restored, we can all get on with working together
to improve our safety record and compliance.
This is how it used to be before the ascendancy of OLC.
The ascendancy of OLC may be graphed and will depict the reciprocal decline
of General Aviation, and the decline of safety.
By all means penalise the deliberate flaunting of rules and safety,
identify the shonks and the financially unviable,
encourage them to either move on, or gain financial backing.
but work with the mostly compliant to help them lift their standards to where we all want them to be.
Be like the country Police seargent, fit in with the community, but gently enforce the law by co-operation, and if that fails, action.
We should all display this poster somewhere in our office / crew rooms:
If you think SAFETY is expensive, try an Accident
About time.
Check my post in the YLHR GPS/NPA thread regarding the five year fatality rate for the NQAO.
How about 52 fatalities ?
As I stated there, the evidence is glaringly obvious, there is NO obvious emphasis on safety,
just an overwhelming desire to write up as many RCA's, ASIR's as possible, and the pursuit of personal vendettas,
against their own staff and selected operators.
When the new AM, AC, gets rid of the problem and its devotees,
he will continue with his established desire to
consult, mentor, encourage, and where necessary dsicipline.
Once trust, confidence and respect has been fully restored, we can all get on with working together
to improve our safety record and compliance.
This is how it used to be before the ascendancy of OLC.
The ascendancy of OLC may be graphed and will depict the reciprocal decline
of General Aviation, and the decline of safety.
By all means penalise the deliberate flaunting of rules and safety,
identify the shonks and the financially unviable,
encourage them to either move on, or gain financial backing.
but work with the mostly compliant to help them lift their standards to where we all want them to be.
Be like the country Police seargent, fit in with the community, but gently enforce the law by co-operation, and if that fails, action.
We should all display this poster somewhere in our office / crew rooms:
If you think SAFETY is expensive, try an Accident
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Bring it on. 
or are we to follow the insane logic ? of the President of a sometime GA advocacy organisation who suggests in a major Australian newspaper;
I think what he meant to say was, "if you can't afford it then get the hell out of the way and leave it to those who can."??? or did he??
By all means penalise the deliberate flaunting of rules and safety, identify the shonks and the financially unviable,
encourage them to either move on, or gain financial backing.
encourage them to either move on, or gain financial backing.
or are we to follow the insane logic ? of the President of a sometime GA advocacy organisation who suggests in a major Australian newspaper;
"What price do you have to pay for safety?" he said.
"If you can't afford it, what happens? Do you operate unsafely? This is getting very, very scary and more to the point it's proving that CASA is not capable of regulating aviation any more."
"If you can't afford it, what happens? Do you operate unsafely? This is getting very, very scary and more to the point it's proving that CASA is not capable of regulating aviation any more."
I think what he meant to say was, "if you can't afford it then get the hell out of the way and leave it to those who can."??? or did he??
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Cousin Cletus, What is your interest in this topic other than attempting to make it look like a Three Ring Circus?
The three 'Rings' keeping this thread alive are doing a good enough job of the circus theme.
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Captain Cranky,
You are another new comer, 28may05, who's barrow are you pushing.
To suggest that the people on this topic are stupid or missinformed is a big statement, if Captain Starlight is correct, 700 complaints, this is a shockingly high number wouldn't you think ?.
You might also see some interesting trends within the Senate Comittee Hearing ( thanks Creampuff ), that give credence to what is being talked about here.
WRT the high numbers of fatalaties in FNQ, well the more people that fly the more that die, Northern NSW is alot less dependant on Aviation as a primary means of transport than FNQ.
I can not see how a direct line between LHR and anybody elses actions other than those in the pointy end of TFU could be contemplated.
TFU was not the first aircraft to fly that approach in IMC.
I'd suggest that it is a fair question "Cousin Cletus, What is your interest in this topic ?", also a new comer ( barrow pushing ? ).
You are another new comer, 28may05, who's barrow are you pushing.
To suggest that the people on this topic are stupid or missinformed is a big statement, if Captain Starlight is correct, 700 complaints, this is a shockingly high number wouldn't you think ?.
You might also see some interesting trends within the Senate Comittee Hearing ( thanks Creampuff ), that give credence to what is being talked about here.
WRT the high numbers of fatalaties in FNQ, well the more people that fly the more that die, Northern NSW is alot less dependant on Aviation as a primary means of transport than FNQ.
I can not see how a direct line between LHR and anybody elses actions other than those in the pointy end of TFU could be contemplated.
TFU was not the first aircraft to fly that approach in IMC.
I'd suggest that it is a fair question "Cousin Cletus, What is your interest in this topic ?", also a new comer ( barrow pushing ? ).
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eeerm captain_cranky like his cousin is taking a bit of a rest from this thread contemplating the manner of constructive input and can't see your reply.
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Stinky
What's happening with the rumour about Ronald's new opportunities?
Is this the same source that had Ronald going to Canberra to seek his fame and fortune,
and be closer to his protectors?
Is a new day dawning?
Will truth and Justice prevail?
We are tuned and waiting for the next exciting episode.
Start sniffing for factual information, this is too good not to celebrate, and we don't wish to be premature.
What's happening with the rumour about Ronald's new opportunities?
Is this the same source that had Ronald going to Canberra to seek his fame and fortune,
and be closer to his protectors?
Is a new day dawning?
Will truth and Justice prevail?
We are tuned and waiting for the next exciting episode.
Start sniffing for factual information, this is too good not to celebrate, and we don't wish to be premature.
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CS, Time will tell.
I'd also like to thank "Four Corners" for accepting the offer that was extended to them recently, for those in Cairns and Townsville, if you haven't yet seen them to have your say, contact them.
In most part they appear well informed and clincal in their approach to what they are trying to investigate. Using such words as Royal Commision, incompetent, Ronald, old boys club, lacking relevant industry experience.
Enjoy !.
I'd also like to thank "Four Corners" for accepting the offer that was extended to them recently, for those in Cairns and Townsville, if you haven't yet seen them to have your say, contact them.
In most part they appear well informed and clincal in their approach to what they are trying to investigate. Using such words as Royal Commision, incompetent, Ronald, old boys club, lacking relevant industry experience.
Enjoy !.
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Stink Finger
Heard they have been seen in the North, Cairns LHR and Bamaga.
Also heard they are running into silence from operators and pilots, due to fear of reprisals.
Like the sound of Royal Commission, that will bring forward people willing to testify,
without fear of reprisal. I guess if we're game, and have nothing to lose, talking to them
may help the inquiry process get off the ground. Hope it doesn't falter due lack of verifiable anecdotes.
If they smell blood, I'm sure they will be clinical as you suggest, and thorough, and legally briefed.
Let's hope they find the corrupt and despicable, the incompetant and the inept, on both sides, if they do in fact exist.
Heard they have been seen in the North, Cairns LHR and Bamaga.
Also heard they are running into silence from operators and pilots, due to fear of reprisals.
Like the sound of Royal Commission, that will bring forward people willing to testify,
without fear of reprisal. I guess if we're game, and have nothing to lose, talking to them
may help the inquiry process get off the ground. Hope it doesn't falter due lack of verifiable anecdotes.
If they smell blood, I'm sure they will be clinical as you suggest, and thorough, and legally briefed.
Let's hope they find the corrupt and despicable, the incompetant and the inept, on both sides, if they do in fact exist.
Check Attitude
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CS and Stinky
Great to hear that 4 Corners has aquired an interest in the NQAO
and the conduct (or selective lack of) of some of it's staff.
It seems that the star of the show may be Ronald
(or Batman, Don Quixote, Pinoccio's enamoured, or whatever pseudonym he is currently assigned)
thus fulfilling his desire for fame and notoriety.
Also going to be a bit tough on B1 and B2, NH, the protector and others who have known all along
that he was seriously out of line.
They were petitioned and informed and failed miserably to do other than commission the tailored Skehill report.
Spare a thought for AC, the new AM, who was sold this office without being informed that it was CASA's most dysfunctional.
A commission of inquiry will clear AC of any complicity, however, the others are going to have
an uncomfortable time in the witness box, and their lame excuses should be almost comical to hear.
The local Federal MP has tried to have this matter resolved,
but he is unfortunately not taken seriously enough by the Minister and his own party, the Nationals.
B1 and B2 may have been misled initially, but have since been informed,
methinks a royal commission may be more wide reaching than the very narrow Skehill report.
Truth and Justice, historically, always and ultimately prevail, lets hope it is sooner than later.
Understand they (4C) may visit Cairns on Monday, have they been to Townsville yet?
Great to hear that 4 Corners has aquired an interest in the NQAO
and the conduct (or selective lack of) of some of it's staff.
It seems that the star of the show may be Ronald
(or Batman, Don Quixote, Pinoccio's enamoured, or whatever pseudonym he is currently assigned)
thus fulfilling his desire for fame and notoriety.
Also going to be a bit tough on B1 and B2, NH, the protector and others who have known all along
that he was seriously out of line.
They were petitioned and informed and failed miserably to do other than commission the tailored Skehill report.
Spare a thought for AC, the new AM, who was sold this office without being informed that it was CASA's most dysfunctional.
A commission of inquiry will clear AC of any complicity, however, the others are going to have
an uncomfortable time in the witness box, and their lame excuses should be almost comical to hear.
The local Federal MP has tried to have this matter resolved,
but he is unfortunately not taken seriously enough by the Minister and his own party, the Nationals.
B1 and B2 may have been misled initially, but have since been informed,
methinks a royal commission may be more wide reaching than the very narrow Skehill report.
Truth and Justice, historically, always and ultimately prevail, lets hope it is sooner than later.
Understand they (4C) may visit Cairns on Monday, have they been to Townsville yet?
Last edited by Mainframe; 10th Jun 2005 at 09:11.
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Mainframe and Stinkfinger,
to quote Gaunty: "Bring it on!!"
Four Corners, and some style of Inquiry to follow.
Time for the good guys in CASA to stand up and be counted, and for the others, to get out of town before sunset.
Those that live by the sword die by the sword.
The new day dawning is still a marvellous dream, for us and the good guys.
Unfortunately the good guys in CASA can't talk to Four Corners,
but I'm sure they will all sing in glorious harmony when subpoenaed at the inquiry.
B1 and B2, this is going to help you get on with what you've been paid and tasked to do,
welcome it for the exposure it will provide for those evading you.
to quote Gaunty: "Bring it on!!"
Four Corners, and some style of Inquiry to follow.
Time for the good guys in CASA to stand up and be counted, and for the others, to get out of town before sunset.
Those that live by the sword die by the sword.
The new day dawning is still a marvellous dream, for us and the good guys.
Unfortunately the good guys in CASA can't talk to Four Corners,
but I'm sure they will all sing in glorious harmony when subpoenaed at the inquiry.
B1 and B2, this is going to help you get on with what you've been paid and tasked to do,
welcome it for the exposure it will provide for those evading you.