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PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   ATC Issues (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues-18/)
-   -   NATS interview process (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/265195-nats-interview-process.html)

tf412 13th February 2019 21:16
Originally Posted by Whispering87 (Post 10387529)
Good news though, the process is changing from April with stages 1 and 2 being online before proceeding to stage 3 interview and anyone who has recently failed can re-apply from April, no need to wait a year!
Is this definitely the case? I also received an email about the change in process, and contemplated delaying until April. However, if it's true that anyone who has recently failed can re-apply, and if the new process will involve FEAST and DART too, then surely it makes perfect sense to proceed with my application and see how far I get. At the very least it will serve as practice!

The Many Tentacles 14th February 2019 05:42
Originally Posted by tf412 (Post 10389167)
I'm currently part way through the application process for Trainee ATCO, but I'm a bit confused about how salary progression would work. If I am successful, I will have to take a fairly significant pay cut for a few years it seems, so I'm trying to work out the ins and out and calculate if I can afford it. As far as I can tell it goes something like this:

College phase – ｣17,000 + ｣60/week accommodation + ｣1,000
On the job training – ｣19,423 to ｣23,307 (depending on location)
Post-validation – ｣37,014 to ｣41,253 (depending on location)
On third anniversary of joining – ｣52,878 to ｣58,933 plus shift pay of around ｣6,500

Now for my questions:
1) How long is the college phase? The NATS infographic suggests 1 year, but elsewhere I've read about 3 months basic + 3.5 months specialism + breaks (so around 7-8 months)?
2) Does everyone get the ｣60/week for accommodation or does it depend on you renting somewhere?
3) Who qualifies for the ｣1000 extra? (When you're on ｣17k, every little helps! But the NATS website suggests not everyone qualifies for this additional sum, without giving more details).
4) Is the 3rd anniversary of joining counted from Day 1 of the college phase?
5) If the answer to my question (4) is "yes", and college + on-the-job training can together take 2.5 to 3 years, then doesn't that mean you aren't on the ｣37-41k band for very long at all?
1. It depends. The tower course is around 6 months total if I remember rightly and the area course is now 9 months. This assumes you fail nothing and all your courses run consecutively. There's a chance you might have to wait for at the course ahead to finish something before you can move on to that stage which will only add to your time at the college,

4. Yes

5. It depends - if you end up somewhere quieter then you can be valid a lot quicker than 3 years and then as a result you're doing the same job as someone else at the unit with the same responsibilities as them for half the money. At Swanwick you're probably looking at nearly three years because it's a lot more complex and you need additional conversion training after the college to be able to use the kit. Count on 6 months at least after college before you get to any live training at Swanwick. After your three year anniversary the pay goes up nicely though.

Lemonair 14th February 2019 08:50
Originally Posted by HannahWrigley (Post 10389571)


2) as far as I知 aware, everyone gets the ｣60 a week

3) Everyone gets the ｣1000 when they validate, again as far as I知 aware
​​​​​​
I did read somewhere that the Jerez lot don't get the ｣60 as it's in lieu of having your accommodation and food paid for in Spain. But I don't know for sure.

tf412 14th February 2019 11:15
Originally Posted by The Many Tentacles (Post 10389439)
4. Yes

5. It depends - if you end up somewhere quieter then you can be valid a lot quicker than 3 years and then as a result you're doing the same job as someone else at the unit with the same responsibilities as them for half the money. At Swanwick you're probably looking at nearly three years because it's a lot more complex and you need additional conversion training after the college to be able to use the kit. Count on 6 months at least after college before you get to any live training at Swanwick. After your three year anniversary the pay goes up nicely though.
Thanks for clarifying things - that's really useful to know. I had previously wondered if the jump up to the ｣52k+ bracket was on the 3rd anniversary of validating, which could have been up to 6 years from joining I guess, so it's very helpful to know that isn't the case.

So, it seems the intermediary jump up to ｣37k is simply to recognise those who manage to validate before the 3rd anniversary (although as you said this effectively means being paid half as much as someone with the same responsibilities, but such is life). However, if I understood things correctly, most people (i.e. where validation occurs close to the 3rd anniversary) aren't on the ｣37k+ bracket for very long at all.

tf412 14th February 2019 11:19
Originally Posted by HannahWrigley (Post 10389571)
2) as far as I知 aware, everyone gets the ｣60 a week

3) Everyone gets the ｣1000 when they validate, again as far as I知 aware
So, even if living with relatives nearby, for example, you could still get the ｣60 a week?

I have wondered why they don't just add this figure to the basic salary during training, but I suspect it's because if it's treated as an expense it can be tax-free, which in turn benefits trainees. It seems this figure hasn't gone up for quite a number of years though.

Originally Posted by Lemonair (Post 10389594)
​​​​​​
I did read somewhere that the Jerez lot don't get the ｣60 as it's in lieu of having your accommodation and food paid for in Spain. But I don't know for sure.
Yep, makes sense.

tf412 14th February 2019 11:21
Originally Posted by HannahWrigley (Post 10389571)
3) Everyone gets the ｣1000 when they validate, again as far as I知 aware
So, this means there is up to a 3-year delay until you are paid this? Which I guess means, when working out whether I could afford to take the financial hit (assuming I get through), I shouldn't take this figure into account.

How do other trainees manage financially in the first 2-3 years, particularly those with a mortgage and kids?

DoStuffAndStuff 14th February 2019 12:01
How are people coming to the conclusion that you can reapply in April if you fail? From what I understood from the email, only if you fail to complete the stages by the deadline or if you voluntarily withdraw can you reapply in April.

Also I'm guessing after April they're going to remove the booklet multiple choice test since it's not really possible to test someone that way at home. Perhaps replace it with something else?

Lemonair 14th February 2019 12:35
Originally Posted by tf412 (Post 10389765)
So, this means there is up to a 3-year delay until you are paid this? Which I guess means, when working out whether I could afford to take the financial hit (assuming I get through), I shouldn't take this figure into account.

How do other trainees manage financially in the first 2-3 years, particularly those with a mortgage and kids?
No kids or a mortgage for me yet but I will be continuing to pay my half of a two bed flat in central Reading so my other half isn't forced to move out and into a house share because of my career decisions.

One of the things that attracted me to Jerez was that the living costs are more favourable (i.e fairly close to zero as food and accomodation is covered) and I believe from a tax perspective it's more like 20% total Spanish tax than about 33% in the UK by the time you factor in NI. Obviously got to factor in personal allowance and things like that. It depends if you can bear to be away from home for that long though I suppose. I believe flights are also included as well as a weekend allowance too. And once I'm back in the UK it will basically be a break even/eat into savings situation paying for two lots of rent at once until I find out where I'm being posted.

I do know they strongly discourage you from taking on a second job for example.

tf412 14th February 2019 22:18
Originally Posted by HannahWrigley (Post 10389850)
I think on 17k you could manage it. It would be like ｣1200 a month excluding the ｣60 a week. You'll be so busy with college you won't have to worry too much about funding like leisure type stuff, so most of what you earn could go to bills/rent/mortgage/food and ｣1200 a month should be plenty for that. I get less than that now and pay for rent/food/bills in the South already and have money to spare so as long as you watch what you spend you'll be fine.
I've no doubt I could manage on that amount if I was single, even if it required me to make some sacrifices. Problem is, a ｣950 mortgage payment and ensuring two little kids have food on the table sadly don't fall into the "leisure" category... :{

Originally Posted by DoStuffAndStuff (Post 10389805)
How are people coming to the conclusion that you can reapply in April if you fail? From what I understood from the email, only if you fail to complete the stages by the deadline or if you voluntarily withdraw can you reapply in April.
I had exactly the same thought earlier today, as that's exactly how the email came across to me too. But then I called NATS to discuss something else and was told that reapplication *will* be possible in April with no need to wait 12 months if you happen to fail at any of the earlier stages. So, it sounds to me that they are making more substantial changes to the selection process than just the way it is delivered, and perhaps someone who doesn't perform that well on one of the current tests might perform differently on one of the new ones. Pure speculation, of course, but that's how it came across.

Whispering87 15th February 2019 08:04
Originally Posted by DoStuffAndStuff (Post 10389805)
How are people coming to the conclusion that you can reapply in April if you fail? From what I understood from the email, only if you fail to complete the stages by the deadline or if you voluntarily withdraw can you reapply in April.

Also I'm guessing after April they're going to remove the booklet multiple choice test since it's not really possible to test someone that way at home. Perhaps replace it with something else?
I'm only going from what we were told at Stage 2 on Monday. If we failed then you can re-apply from April 1st. There was no mention on the actual process changing other than initial stages are now all online, with latter interviews taking place at centres around the country. We were also told that if we passed stage 2 then we'd need to book onto stage 3 before April, otherwise our application would expire and would have to start again come April 1st. Whether that would be the case if you took stage 2 in March, I don't know.

Referring back to the earlier post on whether to take stage 2 before April 1st, I would say take the opportunity for sure. The environment you do it in is great, it gives you a chance to see what's required (assuming the stage 2 stays the same and you don't pass first time) and if like me, only have a small laptop, i'm not sure I would want to be trying to do stage 2 and DART in particular, on that, at home.

ZOOKER 15th February 2019 19:42
Lemonair,

Hopefully I have missed something in this sequence of posts, but forget taking on a second job during your ATCO training course.

It demands 150% commitment.

Lemonair 15th February 2019 19:58
Originally Posted by ZOOKER (Post 10391146)
Lemonair,

Hopefully I have missed something in this sequence of posts, but forget taking on a second job during your ATCO training course.

It demands 150% commitment.
It stemmed from a discussion of how to cope financially if you have a family, I was giving advice not to take a second job :=

gemma96 16th February 2019 13:14
Hi everyone! Just booked my stage 2 and now I'm battling through the booklet.
Can anyone advise on the below?

"1. Boeing 737-300/400/500 series.
2. Seating 300 series, 128 standard,
400 series standard with a maximum 171 seats."

This doesn't give a number of seats for the 500, do I just take it to be 128? I've looked online for the number of seats for the 500 but can't find it anywhere. It's a small issue but I really don't want to get caught out on the test.

YannLePentrec 16th February 2019 14:37
Originally Posted by gemma96 (Post 10391745)
Hi everyone! Just booked my stage 2 and now I'm battling through the booklet.
Can anyone advise on the below?

"1. Boeing 737-300/400/500 series.
2. Seating 300 series, 128 standard,
400 series standard with a maximum 171 seats."

This doesn't give a number of seats for the 500, do I just take it to be 128? I've looked online for the number of seats for the 500 but can't find it anywhere. It's a small issue but I really don't want to get caught out on the test.
Don't worry about that. Just learn what's in the booklet. That detail won't matter, trust me.

Terrier1 17th February 2019 20:55
Originally Posted by gemma96 (Post 10391745)
Hi everyone! Just booked my stage 2 and now I'm battling through the booklet.
Can anyone advise on the below?

"1. Boeing 737-300/400/500 series.
2. Seating 300 series, 128 standard,
400 series standard with a maximum 171 seats."

This doesn't give a number of seats for the 500, do I just take it to be 128? I've looked online for the number of seats for the 500 but can't find it anywhere. It's a small issue but I really don't want to get caught out on the test.
I agree it is annoying there are a few parts like this that don't follow their own structure. I have also looked on Wikipedia for this info and the other info doesn't then match up!!!

I sat a different version over 6 years ago and it was really pretty easy if you had read the info a few times. I am not overly concerned about all the plane specifics, just the general themes and similarities. I am petrified of FEAST and DART though! So as previously mentioned, read what is there and don;t worry about anything else. Good luck!

Flying184 18th February 2019 08:56
Couldn't agree more! The courses are twice as intense as any degree/masters course and require total commitment. There is a HUGE volume of content to learn and understand. As an example my course spent one day at the weekend studying, in addition to at least 2/3hours every weekday night.

I sympathise with your position, but at the same time my course went through the college being paid the old pay scale (｣13k.... ｣900 a month!!) and had to survive! The higher starting salary has come about to entice more people to apply, including graduates.

It may be worth adding that at the moment that whilst the pay increase has happened at the college, once you get posted to unit you get no living allowances whilst training and so in some cases your take home pay may be *less* than at the college (I have heard stories of this being the case). There is also no shift allowance at unit until you are fully valid......

Lemonair 18th February 2019 09:43
Originally Posted by Flying184 (Post 10393372)
Couldn't agree more! The courses are twice as intense as any degree/masters course and require total commitment. There is a HUGE volume of content to learn and understand. As an example my course spent one day at the weekend studying, in addition to at least 2/3hours every weekday night.

I sympathise with your position, but at the same time my course went through the college being paid the old pay scale (｣13k.... ｣900 a month!!) and had to survive! The higher starting salary has come about to entice more people to apply, including graduates.

It may be worth adding that at the moment that whilst the pay increase has happened at the college, once you get posted to unit you get no living allowances whilst training and so in some cases your take home pay may be *less* than at the college (I have heard stories of this being the case). There is also no shift allowance at unit until you are fully valid......
What time do classes tend to start and finish? Is it basically 9-5 for the supervised learning bit? And then the three hours in the evening?

YannLePentrec 18th February 2019 13:23
Originally Posted by Lemonair (Post 10393433)
What time do classes tend to start and finish? Is it basically 9-5 for the supervised learning bit? And then the three hours in the evening?
It's 8 - 4.

norse12 19th February 2019 11:47
Originally Posted by YB24 (Post 10388937)
Hi, I'm currently waiting to sit my stage 2 (currently studying an unrelated course at uni so was waiting until April to sit stage 2), however, I've just had an email stating stage 2 will need to be completed by the end of March and if sucessful, stage 3 by the end of April. Due to uni placements, I could only now sit stage 2 in Feb. What I am wondering is realistically, how long did it take to learn the booklet well enough to pass the test? Whilst I am aware everyone learns at different rates, I am loathed to spend ｣300 to travel down from Ayrshire with not enough prep time but would have to start from scratch with my application in April 2019, if I don't. Any advice appreciated!
YB24 regarding how long it should take to learn the booklet, if you can put aside 5 x 2hr study sessions that should be enough for most. However, a Scottish lad turned up at CTC a couple years ago, HR hadn't emailed him the booklet in advance. They asked if he was still happy to sit the test that day. They printed it out and he sat in the corner for 1.5 hrs reading the booklet, then sat the test and passed! Needless to say he is now valid at Prestwick.

HelenO 19th February 2019 17:21
Hi, Just wondering if anyone who passed stage 3 at the end of January has been given a start date yet?

Arg1203 20th February 2019 16:52
Hey, bit of a long shot, but anyone on the July course at Global? I've just been changed onto it instead of my CTC course, so just wondered if anyone else is on it and we can get a What'sApp group on the go?

idloveit 22nd February 2019 08:34
Originally Posted by desrudy (Post 10396905)
Do you guys ( who re-apply ) have issues to choose and book a day for the stage 2 ???
I get an error message -_- .
I email nats recruitment and they send me this email :

We are experiencing technical issues for candidates wishing to reapply .



We are however working on a new selection model and would ask that you continue to be patient with us whilst we complete this task.

Our plan is to go live with the new application model in April 2019 and will send new links then in order for you to re-apply.

In implementing this new model it will give us the opportunity to transform the way in which we conduct our Trainee Air Traffic Controller application process. It will also deliver significant changes and lasting benefits both to the application process and transform the way we do business in NATS.



Our new selection process

The new selection process, launching early April will have three key stages:



Stage 1 - Online Ability Tests

Stage 2 - Online Situational Judgement Test (SJT) and an Online Personality Questionnaire (OPQ)

Stage 3 - An Assessment centre where you will take part in an interview, a group exercise and will retake the ability tests .

That sounds harder than before ...



So no FEAST or DART?

HelenO 22nd February 2019 08:53
Originally Posted by Arg1203 (Post 10395834)
Hey, bit of a long shot, but anyone on the July course at Global? I've just been changed onto it instead of my CTC course, so just wondered if anyone else is on it and we can get a What'sApp group on the go?
I was told I might be starting in July but it hasn't been confirmed yet, when did you have your stage 3 and find out when you were starting?

Davidmajormorgan 22nd February 2019 09:49
Failed FEAST
 
Hi everyone. Anyone else on here that was at the stage 2 on 15th Feb? Unfortunately I didn't get through the FEAST test but I'm sure given another chance I could get through. I really was NOT on form after driving down the night before and barely getting any sleep. I think out of 12 people only 4 or 5 got through to the afternoon. Massively disappointed. I'm pleased that I can reapply on the new process but it's not clear if the FEAST and DART tests are now part of it. Anyone know for sure?
​​​​​​

Hexagonalised 24th February 2019 10:51
Hey guys,

I have my stage 2 tomorrow and just wanted to find out some more information.

In the email I received from NATS, it says 'Candidates need to be successful in each assessment in order to continue through to the remaining sessions. Those that are not successful at the end of the FEAST assessment will be invited to leave.'.

I'm unsure whether or not it means you can be kicked out after the ATC knowledge test, and some clarification would be helpful. I have never been really studied for any exams but do enjoy taking them, so am looking forward to the FEAST and DART, but am hoping that my revision for the first test will be enough as I don't really have much experience.

If anyone has experience please let me know if you can be unsuccessful after the first exam, and also if memorizing the information they give you is enough to pass.

Thanks!

YannLePentrec 24th February 2019 17:14
Originally Posted by Hexagonalised (Post 10399107)
Hey guys,

I have my stage 2 tomorrow and just wanted to find out some more information.

In the email I received from NATS, it says 'Candidates need to be successful in each assessment in order to continue through to the remaining sessions. Those that are not successful at the end of the FEAST assessment will be invited to leave.'.

I'm unsure whether or not it means you can be kicked out after the ATC knowledge test, and some clarification would be helpful. I have never been really studied for any exams but do enjoy taking them, so am looking forward to the FEAST and DART, but am hoping that my revision for the first test will be enough as I don't really have much experience.

If anyone has experience please let me know if you can be unsuccessful after the first exam, and also if memorizing the information they give you is enough to pass.

Thanks!
People only leave after the FEAST.

Hexagonalised 24th February 2019 18:52
Originally Posted by YannLePentrec (Post 10399381)
People only leave after the FEAST.
Thank you!

Lemonair 24th February 2019 20:33
Has anyone been through the security clearance process recently? I submitted my MoD forms mid November, which came back as completed in early January. NATS were sent my references at the start of February but I still haven't got my clearance. Apparently the MoD bit is 1 of a 7 stage process. I wish they'd hurry up! :rolleyes:

My current boss wants to announce my departure to the team and I'd rather he didn't until all of my paperwork is complete.

FlightStrip 25th February 2019 04:48
Lemonair MoD form - is that a form where you need 10 years work history or 5? and 10 years friendship history for character references?

BARRY_SCOTT 25th February 2019 10:58
It is possible you'll get your clearance once you've started.

Lemonair 25th February 2019 11:20
Originally Posted by BARRY_SCOTT (Post 10399962)
It is possible you'll get your clearance once you've started.
Fair enough. I got an offer 6 months before my start date so would be amazed if it took that long but there you go. I can imagine with all of the trainees they have to process it can take a while.

Lemonair 25th February 2019 11:37
Originally Posted by FlightStrip (Post 10399722)
Lemonair MoD form - is that a form where you need 10 years work history or 5? and 10 years friendship history for character references?
Haha it may as well be :E 5 years' worth of addresses and any cohabiting partners. And then a work reference to cover at least the last year. I think character references and interviews are the next clearance level up.

Harry_h123 25th February 2019 12:55
Hi, is anyone else booked onto the stage 3 assessment day on the 5th March?? Very nervous and would appreciate any hints and tips on how to best prepare myself. I'm only 18 and am aware people my age have been turned away on the basis of "lack of life experience"? How can i show them i'm ready for the challenge? :)

FlightStrip 25th February 2019 13:14
Lemonair Thank you. Do you happen to remember the form number? Is it the NSV001 form? (can't post the link yet but it's 66-pages long)
I also found that there can be a 3-hours long interview at home or workplace depending of which level of security vetting it is: CTC (Counter Terrorism Check), SC (Security Check) or DV (Developed Vetting) which also has its Enhanced version. Do NATS state it anywhere in the process which level it is?

Lemonair 25th February 2019 15:01
Originally Posted by FlightStrip (Post 10400069)
Lemonair Thank you. Do you happen to remember the form number? Is it the NSV001 form? (can't post the link yet but it's 66-pages long)
I also found that there can be a 3-hours long interview at home or workplace depending of which level of security vetting it is: CTC (Counter Terrorism Check), SC (Security Check) or DV (Developed Vetting) which also has its Enhanced version. Do NATS state it anywhere in the process which level it is?
I think it's SV from what I remember. Don't have the form to hand but you might be able to find it online somewhere, I'm not sure. They'll send you everything you need though when they start the process.

TaffRiver 25th February 2019 17:30
ATC Stage 2
 
Hi, for stage 2 NATS, do you get tested on strip display management? I've talked to one person I met who did it and passed but forgot to write it down, but he said it was easier than the ANS initial test

idloveit 26th February 2019 14:56
Originally Posted by desrudy (Post 10396142)
Is it still the booklet from august 2016 ???
This is the one I am revising currently yup.

Flying down to take the test two weeks tomorrow - I'm feeling pretty confident as there is more than enough time to revise.

However my question for those who have completed the knowledge test at the start of Stage 2 - are there any curveballs that are thrown in? Or is it a case of all the questions being related exactly to the literature provided?

Thanks

YB24 27th February 2019 19:43
Originally Posted by norse12 (Post 10394610)
YB24 regarding how long it should take to learn the booklet, if you can put aside 5 x 2hr study sessions that should be enough for most. However, a Scottish lad turned up at CTC a couple years ago, HR hadn't emailed him the booklet in advance. They asked if he was still happy to sit the test that day. They printed it out and he sat in the corner for 1.5 hrs reading the booklet, then sat the test and passed! Needless to say he is now valid at Prestwick.
Thank you for the advice, I've just booked up today for the end of the month, time to start reading up!

MattPudzilla 28th February 2019 14:05
Sat my stage 3 on 26th, just waiting to hear back now. We were told to expect a call/email by the end of today, but I've seen others say it took longer to hear.

​​​​​​Sick with nerves now

Beany1889 28th February 2019 20:38
Originally Posted by HelenO (Post 10394876)
Hi, Just wondering if anyone who passed stage 3 at the end of January has been given a start date yet?
Hi, I passed stage 3 in late January, I haven稚 been given a start date yet but have been told it will be July at the earliest.


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