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-   -   Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/311440-airservices-australia-psychometric-testing.html)

nick83 5th Aug 2009 11:10

Scanorama, yes, I applied into enroute. Fingers crossed!

jrbridge 6th Aug 2009 12:15

We have another course starting Monday then the next on Oct 5th. I wouldn't be surprised if another course starts before the end of the year or the start of next year. I think they originally said to us there would be 3 more courses this year. Good luck everybody.

oldishfart 6th Aug 2009 14:38

level playing field
 
When you play the pokies you know that you're unlikely to come out ahead. The odds might be a million to one. But you decide to play, or not, on that basis.

Well, that might have been the case when pokies were just 3 barrel mechanical devices, but not now. Now machines can be programmed to do anything, even under, or maybe without the knowledge of, government control.

They can be programmed to pay out certain amounts per venue, per day, per person, etc. Likewise they can be programmed to not pay out if the day's limit has been reached, or if the current player has already won, or the player is a slow player, etc.

So, when Air Services Australia gives psychometric testing via computer consoles, how do we know if it's a level playing field? Could the machines be pre-programmed, or auto/self-programmed, to favor, or fail, individual candidates? Maybe there's there an operator peeking through a hole in the wall who flicks a switch to make a specific console triple-difficult so as to fail the candidate who is short/old/young/fat/unwashed/Victorian?

Do we really believe that computers can blindly assess which candidates are suitable to pass to the next testing level? Will this technology be discredited either because it doesn't work, or because it's rife for manipulation?

Or am I just a sour-grapes tertiary educated pilot who failed the test?

Domdaniel 6th Aug 2009 15:59

Hey folks, just wanted to say hi. I was at the testing in Perth earlier this week, Tuesday in fact - hello to anyone else who was there who might be reading this - and I have to admit I'm nervous as hell waiting on the outcome! Feeling pretty confident of course, but still...

I've only got a very rough idea of what happens in the rest of the selection process if I make it through, but I'm confident that if I did a good enough job on Tuesday to warrant an interview or whatever happens to be next, I'll get in.

Anyone wanna be my friend for life and give me an idea of what to expect? :)

Anyway, good luck to anybody else applying for ATC training. Ever noticed that the best jobs have the longest selection processes?

gemmy 6th Aug 2009 22:22

Domdaniel...

Every thing you need to know for the process ahead of you is in this thread!! It helped me :-)
If you passed the testing, the next thing is the telephone interview.. really brief & basic. Why do you want to be ATC, What do you know about AsA etc.

Than comes the Panel Behavioural Interview.. read back through this thread, it will help!!

Good luck!

jrbridge 7th Aug 2009 07:23

oldishfart, if your age is correct then you might have had a stumbling block. I'm pretty sure mandatory retirement age for active atc's is 55. At 57 this doesn't leave you many working years to be trained for.

Domdaniel, I wouldn't get overconfident. Many highly intelligent people have passed the psychometric but have been knocked out in the interview. Best thing you can do is try your best and be as well prepared as possible.

lepsep 7th Aug 2009 11:27

jr...,

You obviously know nil about A.T.C. with regard to working after 55. There is no mandatory retirement age, it is against the law . In fact I know many over 55 still working approach,a couple over 60 . So, before you offer advice to some poor b...tard ,check your facts before bursting into print.

Domdaniel 7th Aug 2009 15:09

Thanks gemmy, I appreciate your input.

Toboto 8th Aug 2009 00:28

hey lepsep obviously at 16 you know everything to do with ATC, jrbridge point is that NORMALLY for ATC there is a mandatory retirement at 55 due to not being able to keep up with the CASA medical requirements and the various stresses that being an ATC bring, it is a FACT that ATC have shorter life spans, if you check the FACTS it takes 3-5 years to become a full performance controller, but yes there are exceptions where people over 55 can meet those requiresments required by LAW and ASA (usually people who have been in the job 20+ years not 1 month and these are people that know their stuff), being an ATC is no ordinary job, its not like working at bunnings, if you aint got the right stuff you aint' got it, sorry for bursting into print, and i'm sure the older gentleman you refer to is not a poor bastard.

tobzalp 8th Aug 2009 00:53

Correct, there is no requirtement for anyone to stop controlling in OZ at any age. As long as you pass your annual proficiency check and 2 yearly medical you can keep on truckin. What may confuse the matter is the ABILITY for ATC to retire at 50 but many do not.



Originally Posted by oldishfart
Or am I just a sour-grapes tertiary educated pilot who failed the test?

I would run with that if I were you. Much easier than making a tin foil hat.

pilotprincess 8th Aug 2009 02:38

Wow. Things are getting heated on the ATC forums. Lets keep it friendly boys. I can see where everyone is coming from, it is hard to get a medical. I'm 20 and healthy and its taken me a year to get my class 2! Bureaucrats :rolleyes:
Anyways, I was wondering if anyone knew how long it usually takes to hear back from ATC after the testing. I did mine on friday. Also if you do progress is the next stage an phone interview?

Thanks for the advice Gemmy, I tried to keep my cool at the day, it was long and very intense, but getting stressed really wouldn't have helped. Besides, if I'm not suited for the job do I really want to have the responsibility of such a stressful and demanding job? Thats my new outlook on this whole process.

gemmy 8th Aug 2009 06:16

Great outlook pilotprincess !!

Hmm yes, for the other guys in this forum taking stabs at each other for not knowing the correct information, you would think mature adults would go about correcting someone a little better than that hey?? C'mon guys, it's not a contest in this forum to see who knows more info than the other!!

OK, so I sat my testing on Feb 12th, got an email 5 days later to say I had progressed to the telephone interview. Had my telephone interview in late Feb & recieved an email on March 25th to say I ha passed the telephone interview & made it to the panel interview. Which was in the 2nd week of May.

I found out on the 6th June that I had successfully passed the interview & had made it to the order of merit list.

They expect to contact my referees either late this year or early in 2010, there are no course dates set for 2010 yet, however they do expect the first course to be around March.!

Good luck with the remainder of your testing, I'd say the course you are expecting to get on will be in later half of 2010. But that's just my opinion ;-)

All the best!!

jrbridge 8th Aug 2009 06:53

Oh my. What have I started. I didn't mean to offend anyone. Just got my facts a little arseabout. Sorry all.

gemmy 8th Aug 2009 09:58

ha ha.. no worries with you JrBridge.... You were only writing what you thought was correct....
Just some people went about correcting you in a manner which isn't really expected/apprecaited. We're all adults in this forum (I think) & therefore should speak each other as such.... :-)..

Now... back to the topic of the thread... :ok:

Good Luck to all of those currently going through the testing.. & JrBridge, I hope you are going well at the College !

psychometrictest 10th Aug 2009 12:03

17 th august test
 
Is there anyone else going for the psychometric test in melbourne on 17th aug?

Eastside 10th Aug 2009 13:53

medical tests
 
Can anyone tell me more about medical testing? I have been exposed to loud music in a previous work environments so I am a little concerned about my hearing damage. Does anyone know what the standard of hearing requirements are?

Thanks in advance.

pilotprincess 11th Aug 2009 01:42

I remember from my class 2 that they ask alot of questions about family history of heart disease and diabetes etc etc. The standard questions of any medical. From what I can remember they have a breathing test for your lung capacity, a urine test, and then they test your balance by making you stand (in your underwear) with two feet infront of each other eyes closed and you have to go up and down. It's super embarrassing. I know for a class one you have to have really good hearing, but I'm not sure about class three. Sorry!

Has anyone who just sat there test last week got their results back?

melbATC 11th Aug 2009 06:22

for a class 3 medical you are required to undergo the same tests as the class 1 i.e ecg, full audiology & opthamology in addition to the class 2 tests.

The only real difference between the class 1 & 3 medical is the validity period i.e. 2 years instead of 1 year for the class 1 and the fact that with a class 3 you can have some medical conditions that preclude a class 1 as long as they are managed.

nick83 12th Aug 2009 03:39

I sat the psychometric assessments yesterday and think I did quite well! Now the waiting game... :ugh:

psychometrictest 12th Aug 2009 04:21

hey
 
hey nick , great to hear about ur test. do u hav any advice for me i got mine on 17th aug

tobzalp 12th Aug 2009 09:37

Yeah mate, drop the MSN spelling thing for a start.

mrtwister 12th Aug 2009 09:43

Written Offer
 
Written offer came today. Superpumped. Didn't realise they had a condition where if you leave the job before 5 years of service you have to pay them back for the training. Can see the reason for it but sure makes you think long and hard.

gemmy 12th Aug 2009 11:07

MrTwister..! Nice one.

Wow, the bond is only 5yrs?? I thought it was 7yrs.

Gee less than I had to serve in the RAAF !! haha.. I'll patiently keep twiddling my tumbs until they contact my referees later in the year or early next year.

Congrats on getting the official word though, start packing up your house :ok:

nick83 13th Aug 2009 04:30

psychometric test- on page 1 of this forum there is an excellent post by levitate that describes the tests in detail. Knowing why to expect helped me the most I think and it made me feel much more prepared when
he would start describing the test and I already knew what it was about! Best of luck!

jrbridge 13th Aug 2009 05:41

You only have to pay back $250000. That's small change for an ATC trainee.

adc123 13th Aug 2009 13:11

no where near that high mate, it also reduces over the years. also only applies once you get your first rating. i guess it keeps you from heading overseas..

Salinger 14th Aug 2009 02:06

It's actually $70,000 which reduces by 20% each year you stay until your 5 years are up. Quite a bit of cash, but since they're paying for my training and paying me to be trained, I figure it's fair! Especially since my HECS debt is enormous and nobody will be paying that for me :(

Source: I got my written offer in the mail yesterday.

Scanorama 15th Aug 2009 01:56

Got an email from AsA yesterday:

Dear Applicants,

For those of you who have already completed your psychometric testing day, I hope all went well and I thank you for your attendance. For those who have yet to attend, I wish you all the very best!
This email is to clarify information some candidates received at their testing day in recent weeks. A majority of you were informed on the day that you would receive your results within 48 hours of completing the test. This information was INCORRECT.

The testing days are currently taking place nationally, and this will be continuing until the end of August. Not until ALL of these have been finalised will we be looking over the results. You will be notified at the end of this month or early September via email as to whether or not you were successful. If you passed the testing day you will also be informed of the next stage of the process.

The ATC in Training recruitment process can be quite a lengthy process and I appreciate your eagerness to move this process along. I sincerely do appreciate your patience and I will be in contact as soon as possible with the outcome of your testing day.


mrtwister 15th Aug 2009 21:24

Hey Salinger,

Congrats on the offer. Which course are you lined up for?

jrbridge 15th Aug 2009 22:57

That's a bit odd, my contract states
"Traning Costs means the amount of $250000 on account of the ATC Training provided by AirServices to the employee."

This reduces 20% per year after the first year of employment.

Unless the contracts have changed?

That's a big difference!

melbATC 16th Aug 2009 00:56


That's a bit odd, my contract states
"Traning Costs means the amount of $250000 on account of the ATC Training provided by AirServices to the employee."

This reduces 20% per year after the first year of employment.

Unless the contracts have changed?

That's a big difference!
jr,

I don't know why your contract would say $250000, I signed mine just over 12 months ago and the amount was $70000 then.

jrbridge 16th Aug 2009 03:05

We got our results straight away as well. Only 4 from our day of 25 passed.

mrtwister 16th Aug 2009 09:29

I did my Psychometric Testing in February this year and the facilitator told us that he had been instructed to tell us that the pass or fail email will be sent in 2-3 weeks (that was when the other cities were due to finish their testing), that it was simply pass or fail (no scores) and that he had no idea what the pass marks were or would be.

I must say, ASA did fire off the pass/fail email pretty soon after all the cities completed their testing. It was easily the fastest response of all the stages.

By the way (to all you experienced ATCs out there) how often are controllers relocated without a choice. The Cert Agreement mentions ASA's right to make compulsory relocations but how often, in reality, do these occur these days?

cbradio 17th Aug 2009 04:50

hey ratc

from this a few months ago


is it on tower road,

for those people who have gone through the interview phase, what actually is asked in the interview.

is there a bus that goes past the control tower entrance ot control centre up at brisbane.
to this


a number of atc already working will have dropped out not of stress (maybe 2) but boredom working the boring sectors
seems quite a jump. It it's so boring before you start, why are you bothering?


i hope to see you out wokring the adjacent sectors to me.

not likely is it? ;)

Eastside 17th Aug 2009 04:53

testing
 
can you use calculator at the psychometric test stage?

melbATC 17th Aug 2009 05:36


can you use calculator at the psychometric test stage?
Sorry only mental maths.

5miles 17th Aug 2009 07:58


By the way (to all you experienced ATCs out there) how often are controllers relocated without a choice.
Whilst there is a clause in the C.A. that allows for compulsory transfers, it's very rarely enacted.

With all of enroute & ML, CB, BN, CG Approach operating from within the centres, you are more likely to be relocated to another group within the same location. This may be at your request/application or management whim as staffing needs dictate.


$250,000 what a joke. Maybe it's a new income stream for ASA, actually get trainees into the under resourced college, under-train them, jerk them around and watch as they line up at the bank for a $250,000 loan.
What a crock. Whilst I have no idea what the actual $bond is, how could it be considered an income stream?? If the trainee fails during the Academy course or fails to rate on job, then no bond is payable.

ratc2009, just curious, but from what level of experience do you make your assertions?

jrbridge 17th Aug 2009 10:15

ratc2009 care to enlighten us? Not sure what your angle is.

cbradio 17th Aug 2009 11:22

sorry ratc, I should never have doubted you.

Although asking if the tower was located on Tower Road did throw me a bit.

How about letting us in on what boring sector you are/are going to be working so we can make sure we are on the adjacent one to you.


and giving you an idea whats behind ASA.
probably a good idea to leave that to people who have some idea! :ok:

YankATC 19th Aug 2009 08:02

I'm here from the US, start school on 14 September and I had to sign a 5 year bond. Which really makes sense since they paid for containers for my family's belongings and everything else included in getting us here.


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