NATS £45m Cost Savings - Suggestion Box
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It made a lot more sense to have an HQ co-located with the UK CAA,
at 45-59 Kingsway, (main entrance, Kemble Street), LONDON WC2B 6TE.
A "world leader" with a base in one of the world's great cities, rather than on a backroad in some south-coast 'business-park'
at 45-59 Kingsway, (main entrance, Kemble Street), LONDON WC2B 6TE.
A "world leader" with a base in one of the world's great cities, rather than on a backroad in some south-coast 'business-park'
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You think the ops room is short staffed? Say no to overtime.
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You think you're short staffed one day? Split positions as much as you can. Ask for MDIs to be applied as soon as there's bad weather or bunching.
You think the ops room is short staffed? Say no to overtime.
Emergency or level bust? Ask for a break afterwards.
Dual Valid? Stick to one sector per day don't move back and forward to help out a shortfall.
Lots of airborne holding? Don't tighten the spacing on approach.
Problems with new procedures, equipement or practices? MOR them so the CAA are aware.
Only getting minimal breaks? Make sure you get 30 minutes responsibility free (that means don't take a bleep).
Start your break when you leave the ops room not when the incoming controller writes the time on the sheet.
No staff to relieve you? close the sector, DO NOT work beyond your shift end time.
In short, just say NO
You think the ops room is short staffed? Say no to overtime.
Emergency or level bust? Ask for a break afterwards.
Dual Valid? Stick to one sector per day don't move back and forward to help out a shortfall.
Lots of airborne holding? Don't tighten the spacing on approach.
Problems with new procedures, equipement or practices? MOR them so the CAA are aware.
Only getting minimal breaks? Make sure you get 30 minutes responsibility free (that means don't take a bleep).
Start your break when you leave the ops room not when the incoming controller writes the time on the sheet.
No staff to relieve you? close the sector, DO NOT work beyond your shift end time.
In short, just say NO
Spamcan
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Do the Unions have an option to implement work to rule? NATS would cease to function effectively if we worked to rule. Just a thought 
And before the yes men ask what good it would do, if we had worked to rule when our Pension was screwed and now our pay rise and terms and conditions, then we may not have ended up the Ryanair of ATC .
We could have used the wtr as a lever to stop management giving away £43.5 million when they were warned by the Pensions regulator not to pay out dividends if the pension was having "difficulties". This could then have been used to save our pension
And before the yes men ask what good it would do, if we had worked to rule when our Pension was screwed and now our pay rise and terms and conditions, then we may not have ended up the Ryanair of ATC .
We could have used the wtr as a lever to stop management giving away £43.5 million when they were warned by the Pensions regulator not to pay out dividends if the pension was having "difficulties". This could then have been used to save our pension
Work to rule
a job action in which workers cause a slowdown by doing only the minimum amount required by the rules of the workplace
a job action in which workers cause a slowdown by doing only the minimum amount required by the rules of the workplace
Last edited by Vote NO; 5th Jun 2009 at 10:01.
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Spamcam
Why would your peers think that "you're a lazy, whingeing, subversive douchebag" and "a w****er for effectively working to rule" when you are only doing what your Job description asks of you.???
Management would get to hear whats happening PDQ and it sounds as though this is what YOU would think of your peers!
Your=belonging to
You're=you are
While I agree in principle with all of the above (apart from the no OT issue which will NEVER work unilaterally) I think the problem lies in the fact that if you DID do such things its not management but your peers that think your a lazy, whingeing, subversive douchebag. What I'm saying is that the folks that you THINK your affecting i.e management will probably never hear of the goings on and the upshot is that all your watch colleagues think your a w****er for effectively working to rule. In an ideal world every watch would have the ""one for all, all for one" attitude but in practice that rarely happens.
Management would get to hear whats happening PDQ and it sounds as though this is what YOU would think of your peers!
Your=belonging to
You're=you are
I think the problem lies in the fact that if you DID do such things its not management but your peers that think your a lazy, whingeing, subversive douchebag
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Your=belonging to
You're=you are
You're=you are
Secondly.....
Why would your peers think that "you're a lazy, whingeing, subversive douchebag" and "a w****er for effectively working to rule" when you are only doing what your Job description asks of you.???
What I thnk you fail to grasp is the fact that for a lot of folks on my watch (and they're probably not alone), unless any sort of action is mandated by the Union then its seen as unilateral action. They cant see unilateral action for what it IS and just see it as someone being unhelpful/lazy/not a team player etc.
Can anyone grasp what I'm trying to get across here or am I just not being succinct enough???
Spamcan
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We are professionals, managed by donkeys, that is why we go the extra mile and keep NATS afloat. And that is why we are being used by management. That is also why our Unions should have implemented work to rule, and everyone would have known where we stood
. That is also why our Unions should have implemented work to rule, and everyone would have known where we stood
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How can you call NATS mgt donkeys:
They have reduced long term costs
Paid a dividend for the first time
Kept the service standard
That's what they are there for, not make ATCOs happy bunnies. You make not like it, but you underestimate them at your own cost
They have reduced long term costs
Paid a dividend for the first time
Kept the service standard
That's what they are there for, not make ATCOs happy bunnies. You make not like it, but you underestimate them at your own cost
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They have reduced long term costs
Paid a dividend for the first time
Kept the service standard
Paid a dividend for the first time
Kept the service standard
Why don't you post that rubbish on NATSNET, where it belongs ProManagement??
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Spamcan
Yes I do work with you... and yes In the past many have bemoaned the fact of others not being team players but now is the time to get together and NOT be team players..together ..if you see what I mean.
This is the trouble now, we are so used to being team players that if someone just says "Enough is Enough" they are frowned upon when really they are only doing what they are contracted to do. Its time for us all to be selfish towards management ..thats not towards each other.
I'm sure you get my drift
Yes I do work with you... and yes In the past many have bemoaned the fact of others not being team players but now is the time to get together and NOT be team players..together ..if you see what I mean.
This is the trouble now, we are so used to being team players that if someone just says "Enough is Enough" they are frowned upon when really they are only doing what they are contracted to do. Its time for us all to be selfish towards management ..thats not towards each other.
I'm sure you get my drift
Last edited by kats-I; 5th Jun 2009 at 14:02.
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ProM
........most definitely!!
.....
.....jury still out on that one:
Has it ever occurred to you that ATCOs/ATSAs and Engineers that are "Happy" little Bunnies make for "SAFE" little Bunnies.
There are also a lot of very good experienced staff that other countries would welcome with open arms..perhaps management are the ones under-estimating.
your tone sounds a little threatening..is it??
They have reduced long term costs
Paid a dividend for the first time
Kept the service standard
Has it ever occurred to you that ATCOs/ATSAs and Engineers that are "Happy" little Bunnies make for "SAFE" little Bunnies.
There are also a lot of very good experienced staff that other countries would welcome with open arms..perhaps management are the ones under-estimating.
but you underestimate them at your own cost
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In response to Prom's comments.
The comments are wholly right.
I am very cynical, militant and would strike at the drop of a hat. I have always voted no when the union recommends a yes vote and it's got me nowhere.
But we never learn. We shift more traffic each year DESPITE management.
We have let management shaft us, the powder that was dry never exploded over the pension and Prom is right. I am far from a management bod but these ruthless and bullish current set are walking all over us, so you have to say looking inwards that they are doing their jobs well as the traffic is still being shifted but us atco's are no longer smiling. What do they care?
2-3% is bollocks and they can stick their reworking of terms and conditions as well. It comes down to us sticking together and not doing anything extra apart from plug in and more importantly take our responsibility free breaks etc, not fit in a quick LCE check etc, nor attending meetings etc nor doing AAVA's proving you don't really need/want your leave etc. Our union can't be seen to be stirring up dissent so it's down to the individual.
This is certainly not the NATS that I signed up to and in some ways roll on the break up of NSL which could be the kick up the arse I and others needed to leave this over managed/administrative heavy company anyway.
The comments are wholly right.
I am very cynical, militant and would strike at the drop of a hat. I have always voted no when the union recommends a yes vote and it's got me nowhere.
But we never learn. We shift more traffic each year DESPITE management.
We have let management shaft us, the powder that was dry never exploded over the pension and Prom is right. I am far from a management bod but these ruthless and bullish current set are walking all over us, so you have to say looking inwards that they are doing their jobs well as the traffic is still being shifted but us atco's are no longer smiling. What do they care?
2-3% is bollocks and they can stick their reworking of terms and conditions as well. It comes down to us sticking together and not doing anything extra apart from plug in and more importantly take our responsibility free breaks etc, not fit in a quick LCE check etc, nor attending meetings etc nor doing AAVA's proving you don't really need/want your leave etc. Our union can't be seen to be stirring up dissent so it's down to the individual.
This is certainly not the NATS that I signed up to and in some ways roll on the break up of NSL which could be the kick up the arse I and others needed to leave this over managed/administrative heavy company anyway.
Interesting thread kicking off today over here where the winding up of the BA pension fund is discussed. Interesting comments from posters both in the new scheme and in the old final salary scheme. I reckon that's us 5 years from now.
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Spamcan
I'm one of those ATCOs who decries others as being poor team players when they refuse to do extra sectors. That's because doing extra sectors is the norm.
However, if it was a case of people not doing extra sectors in response to management, it would be a different kettle of fish.
A lot of single sector people are either too crap to do other sectors, they need to concentrate on their primary one, or they are NOT TEAM PLAYERS!
Mr777
you have misread ProM's post.
He is entirely correct - management are not donkeys, they have achieved exactly what they set out to do.
Divide workforce.
Close pension.
Crap Pay rise.
Cut costs.
Reduce manpower.
And we have let them. Who are the donkeys?
I know that is a fact, but it does not mean I agree with where they are taking NATS, far from it in fact.
Problem is, what are we going to do to stop what we perceive is the rot? Collectively we don't have the balls to work to rule, never mind strike. Management know that and use it to their advantage.
(Edited to remove abuse)
I'm one of those ATCOs who decries others as being poor team players when they refuse to do extra sectors. That's because doing extra sectors is the norm.
However, if it was a case of people not doing extra sectors in response to management, it would be a different kettle of fish.
A lot of single sector people are either too crap to do other sectors, they need to concentrate on their primary one, or they are NOT TEAM PLAYERS!
Mr777
you have misread ProM's post.
He is entirely correct - management are not donkeys, they have achieved exactly what they set out to do.
Divide workforce.
Close pension.
Crap Pay rise.
Cut costs.
Reduce manpower.
And we have let them. Who are the donkeys?
I know that is a fact, but it does not mean I agree with where they are taking NATS, far from it in fact.
Problem is, what are we going to do to stop what we perceive is the rot? Collectively we don't have the balls to work to rule, never mind strike. Management know that and use it to their advantage.
(Edited to remove abuse)
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ironic
anyone else see the irony on NATSnet today?
The article celebrating the signing of the Manchester Airport contract sits directly above the article stating we need to save money...
The article celebrating the signing of the Manchester Airport contract sits directly above the article stating we need to save money...
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you have misread ProM's post
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The article celebrating the signing of the Manchester Airport contract sits directly above the article stating we need to save money.
Good thinking, well done NSL, now NERL has to find ANOTHER £4 million quid to replace it by end of 2011 - thanks a bunch!!!
I hope keeping the Manc contract was worth it (apart from the obvious keeping people in jobs!
)......RS
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In my opinion you are all missing one very important point. All the measures taken recently such as reducing costs, training times, staff (VR), will accomplish the managements short term aims to ensure that Mr Barron and his senior collegues get their pensions and bonuses before they leave nats for pastures new. In 12-18 months time when the general economy picks up and you have more flights but do not have the neccesary resources or personnel to deal with them what will you do then or will it be too late?
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Mr Barron and his senior collegues (sic) get their pensions and bonuses
ng obvious that bonuses based on short-term targets can give perverse outcomes, but those receiving them rarely care.
Do the Unions have an option to implement work to rule?
Before anyone advocates a work to rule, they should be sure they understand the rules - they might find that it's a two-edged sword!
Last edited by PeltonLevel; 6th Jun 2009 at 06:24.