South African ATC

[makeapullup]

dont have to give up their off days

Surely this is voluntary!!

[boomslang]

Makeapullup

That's the main concern that most have with the whole buy back of off days. I am pretty sure that if ATNS had come with a blank sheet and asked for names to volunteer working their off days all but a few would have agreed. Now they want to force it and that's one of the reasons why the ATC's are sticking to their guns.

Other reasons include the lack of visible planning and common sense. A-ll T-alk N-other S-urvey (yesterday another survey questionnaire to complete which apparently this time management will discuss with us once completed)

As for the admin staff not working I cannot see why they should also not be included. Major matches will be played after hours and if there is a grounding issue or a suspended account this cannot wait for normal office hours to be resolved. At negotiations we are time and time reminded that ATNS is not only an ATC company. Funny how when the chips are down it's only the ATC's that have to "go the extra mile to make SWC2010 a success!!".

[leo20]

Boomslang

Like you said ATCs must always come to the party and safe this pathetic company

They "Management" always seem to up and the ATC comes and safe the day and when it comes to salary negotiations they state we are greedy and guess who gets the Bonus. Postman Pat and his black and white cat (god bless)

Before somebody says why don't you leave, don't worry I am busy getting out of here.

Another interesting one I just heard today is, that guy sitting at EL waiting for PE just bought himself a new GTI and he is only the Acting OIC of EL. When is he going to do some work for PE or is it a bit to much, the poor old PM from PE will do all the work for him and he gets the prize. But hey once again no BEE forced down your throught.

All The Non atcs/atsa Suck - referring to HO clowns

[Senior_ATCO]

ATNS cannot be as bad as some atcos make us believe !

ATNS Scoops Air Navigation Service Provider of the Year Award

10 Dec: ATNS has received the Award for ANSP of the Year at the AGM of the African Airlines Association

ATNS has received the Award for Air Navigation Service Provider of the Year in recognition of their outstanding, efficient and exemplary provision of airline navigational services to the African airline industry.

The Award was presented at the 41st Annual General Assembly of the African Airlines Association held in Maputo, Mozambique from the 22nd to the 24th of November 2009.

“I am delighted that our efforts and achievements have been publicly acknowledged and wish to thank each and every one of our employees for the role they have played in making this a possibility. An award of this nature once again validates and reaffirms the level of expertise we have at ATNS and sets us apart as leaders in our industry.” – Patrick Dlamini Chief Executive Officer.

[RadarMaggot]

Off day buy-back, Essential Service and...

The collective agreement between the union and ATNS states that all ATCO's will have a minimum of 8 days off in any 28 day cycle.

With the SWC and ATNS being short staffed, they are trying to make up for not enough ATCO's by buying back off days. ATNS is still "negotiating" with the union on the terms of the buy-back. If the employees stick to their guns and the majority votes no then ATNS will approach individuals to try and get back enough off days...

If this fails, the will get a court order where they can use the law to force employees to only have 6 days off in a 28 day cycle. This is possible in the event of an emergency(!!), but the SWC is NOT an emergency.
Unless ATNS sees it as an Emergency?

I have a copy of an email that was sent to HQ (BD in specific) in 2005 where the ATC wrote clearly and without being vague, that we don't have enough people and seeing that it takes approx 4 - 5 years (in our setup of training) to get an ATC in front of a radar screen (I think 2 - 3 years for TWR, might be mistaken!!), there should have been ample time to train.

So if ATNS listened/read and acted accordingly, we should have had enough people to work the SWC by now. BUT, we all know where we are at this stage. Except the people at HQ...

According to our CEO, we are very little understaffed, about 5 - 10 people if I recall correctly (according to a source at our last union meeting - I will get back to this meeting a bit later).

But what gets me is that if this is the case, why need off days to be taken away (forcibly if necessary) for the SWC? The only time that it got out in the press/radio is when one of our senior managers(/negotiator for off day buy-back) said on a (small) radio station (and not many people heard it!!) that they will get off days back from the employees.

What I want to know is why the union did not hang this on the big clock and issued a press release? ATNS is tiptoeing aound the issue that they want the off days back because off the short staffing issue!! And why does FIFA still think everything is still going smootly? Because the truth of the matter is being kept hush-hush by the company. And this will end badly next year...

Has ATNS done a safety-case study about what the effect will be on the already overworked and stressed employees/ATCO's by taking back 25% of our off/resting time? The simple answer is NO!! Will ATNS be backing the ATCO's that will have incidents/accidents while they were on duty during the SWC - the answer again is NO!! They will make an example of the ATCO and use the excuse that he/she didn't follow procedures.

Well, we are already bending the rules very close to breaking point to accomodate all the present traffic - not to mention to accommodate all the requests from pilots - direct routings, no speed restriction, no delays "becuse we are low on fuel"... (at FAJS radar, everything is negotiable, and the ATCO is the pig if it's not given because the previous ATCO did cave under pressure..)

So to Senior ATCO:
Above is why ATNS gets the award - "Look how well ATNS is doing", meanwhile, behind the scenes the ATCO's are starting to bleed out of their eyes and ears!

To all the Joburg Solidarity (union) members not present at the last meeting:
Wondering why there is a "new" proposal out from ATNS/Solidarity regarding the OFF days. Well, because you were not at the meeting, that's why!

A grand total of 5 members were present (8 with Reps and shop stewards). There was a "typo" on both sets of letters (ATNS + Solidarity) about the terms of the buyback - overtime / hourly rate... And Solidarity got a "brain fart" to tell ATNS that it was wrong. There wasn't even a vote to decide if this should/shouldn't be done, and the union states that it was decided on the meeting - THERE WAS NO VOTE ON THIS! After all the screwing the ATCO's got from the company, we could have been beter off... And both "new" sets of letters didn't even apologise for the "error", just a "revised" option to vote on

So I hope the majority of the people vote FOR the "new" proposal. Then we will propably hear again that the union is not looking after its members - well, you've got yourself to blame for that. You as members had a chance to make a difference (again) but decided not to...

Essential Service
As for Solidarity's excuse about al the decicions thay made (some without consulting the members or putting it to the vote) up to this point - we are waiting for the outcome of the Essential Service "battle".

Solidarity is banking everything on this outcome (but what if we lose??). As I'm personally involved in this issue, I can truly say that we have a strong case - but as expected - ATNS is playing the stalling game. AND Solidarity is just playing along!!! I think I hear laughing at HQ...

The LRA (Labour Relations Act) that deals with the classification of Essentail Service or not, clearly makes the provision that process must be dealt with in an expeditious manner, but ATNS says the Commision must first investigate and report on the declassification of ATNS as an Essentail Service.

The original date given by the CCMA was 2 December 2009. It has come and gone and the CCMA said it's because they have difficulty in aligning the diaries of the senior people that will serve on the committee... And Solidarity will not put the LRA pressure on them - because we don't want them become angry that we are pushng the issue - nice going Solidarity - right into the hands of ATNS.

Oh, but Solidarity does phone and email them to get answers... This is Africa - if you don't stop just before committing a crime, Africa time rulz

Now, I do expect a bashing coming my way, but what the heck, I'm used to it by now.

[126,7]

ATNS has received the Award for ANSP of the Year at the AGM of the African Airlines Association

Congratulations are in order. I heard there was stiff competition from Matsapa for the prize. The rest of the African providers didn't stand a chance.

[leo20]

Joke of the year

According to Management the CATS & CARS are not part of ATNS policy.

So does that mean we don't have to comply with the CAA regulations? If so what procedures do we follow?

[Radar Pete]

leo20

???? Are you serious? Technical Standards and Regulations are drawn up by the State Regulator for industry. Company Policy is a different issue all together; perhaps your naivity is getting the better of you???

Just to clarify, since the speed limit on the highway is 120km/h, I suppose that must also form part of the company policy since most people drive to work?

I suggest you gather your thoughts before writing on an open forum, good thing it is anonymous.

[Voel]

Cape Town - Fifty air traffic controllers are currently being trained and an additional 16 international air traffic controllers are being recruited, in order to cope with the expected flood of aircraft movements during next year's soccer World Cup.

According to a written reply to a parliamentary question given by Transport Minister Sbu Ndebele to Greg Krumbock of the Democratic Alliance on Tuesday, the international controllers will only be appointed on a fixed term employment of six months.

Full story ere: Fin24.com>>Economy>>2010: Air controllers imported

[leo20]

Hi Radar Pete,

I am seroius, there was recently a disciplinary held at HO where the company used a tape transcript agaisnt the person for what they said to some one on a private conversation. Although no names was mentioned the person got nailed.

In the CATs and CARs it clearly states that tapes can only be used in accident and incidents. They discarded this evidence as they say it is not part of the ATNS policy.

So know I have not lost it, and they say they can even check into your company e-mail and use it against you aswell.

All I can say is that ATNS is very arrogant and there is no shuch thing as human rights in that company and diversity is only for the dare I say it black folk.

I also heard that alot of whites staff are resigning at HO as they can't take it anymore. The CEO sent out a memo stating that they are re-structuring the Exec posts, so I take it the only last whites on the Execs are about to get axed.

So where is ATNS heading, DOWN wonder if they will win the Award next year.

[Radar Pete]

Hi leo20

Somewhere the point is being missed. The CARS will state that in an investigation any information not pertinent to the investigation cannot be used against an ATC in that investigation, i.e. the issue is relevant to the investigation at hand. If information comes to light during an investigation then that is a separate issue all together.

However, in the course of duty, ATC's have to be careful of what they say and do whilst on duty, that to me is just plain common sense. A private conversation whilst on position in a taped environment, REALLY?? There is a time and a place for everything, on position is perhaps not the wisest choice.

It must also be considered that all the facts may not be there for you to assess, you are getting third-hand information and making a judgement. Sure, the person who was disciplined will provide a lyrical and picturesque point of view that will excite all the war-mongers. There is another side to the event, and then there is perhaps the truth, but are you really able to sit there and make a call??

[BlueSkye]

Well, we are already bending the rules very close to breaking point to accomodate all the present traffic - not to mention to accommodate all the requests from pilots - direct routings, no speed restriction, no delays "becuse we are low on fuel"... (at FAJS radar, everything is negotiable, and the ATCO is the pig if it's not given because the previous ATCO did cave under pressure..)

THEN STOP BENDING THE RULES!!

Dct routings - Negative.
Speeds - Comply with arrival.
Low on fuel - Are you declaring an emergency?

Grow a backbone and say no!

[RadarMaggot]

Dear BlueSkye

THEN STOP BENDING THE RULES!!

Preaching to the choir here...

I am working according to the rules, but you quickly get a label of not being a team player... (I only work at ATNS: I don't have to like you and you don't have to like me either. Do your job according to the rules and we'll just get along fine!)

That said, with ref to the article on Fin24.com:
Solidarity (union) asked ATNS directly if they are hiring foreign controllers to help with the SWC, (€90000 contract ad ring a bell?) and ATNS replied: no, not hiring foreign controllers.

Well, where are all the new controllers coming from then and where are they being trained? 50 under training right now and 16 to come - good luck getting them all up to standard for the SWC...

[Late 1976]

RadarMaggot:

Who is breaking the rules?? If the rules are broken, it should be reported!

Aren't we supposed to work according to the rule of 1000 feet or 5, and for ACC 10 miles. Surely giving a DCT routing, or No Speed is not breaking the rules, is it?

If the the label fits, wear it! If it doesn't, screw those that label you!

[RadarMaggot]

Late 1976

With Maestro (sequencing tool) not being used (ACC doesn't want to for an acceptable reason), the standard inbound separation from ACC must be 15nm at the feeder fix (according to the SSI's), but if you don't tell ACC you want 15nm, it's just a case of "I wasn't told (on the handover)". I must say that there are definitely exceptions to this as well!!

Definitely no names can be mentioned, especially on a rumour site.

The following could ring a bell:
1) 5nm separation in LVP,
2) less than 5nm on final approach without even flinching TWR must "catch"...
3) sending acft on departure direct to FIR exit points, on first contact, during nightshift
4) let FAGM have an airshow and continue OPS NML on Radar (yes I know it has been done in the past with al the Notam, TFC info etc)

and my personal favourites:
5) calibration on RWY 21L, with departures from RWY 03L crossing abeam the calibration acft (some at the same altitude) - poor TCAS must be going ape-sh !
6) TWR calls radar to turn no 1 DEP as no 2 is already rolling to accommodate a landing on RWY 03L

Concerns and rulebreaking have been reported to the managers, but after an 'investigation' it is ruled that:

1) It wasn't really LVP...
2) VMC by day, vicinity of aerodrome perhaps (this is just a guess).
3) Just look at what great service is being provided.
4) No comment!
5) The ILS must be calibrated! (And I know it has a certificate only valid for a certain period, problems with calibration acft etc etc...)
6) Refer to no 3

I just wonder if this (no 5) happens anywhere else in the world? And if so, surely the TWR waits for the calibration acft to cross (or very close to)threshold of opposite RWY before letting a departure go... Just curious.

[Radar Pete]

RadarMaggot

I see ATNS are still using procedures from years gone by. They seem on the ball getting new equipment but fail to use that to improve procedures, why bother? 5NM inside the TMA, most advanced units use 3. I bet you guys are still using 10NM outside 60NM?

ATCs will always be their own worst enemy, and as such the situation will never improve unless they stand together. It is a huge pity that ATCs still do not support their own union, if you pay the fees get involved, stop paying lip service. If the union does not support its members then vote in someone who will get the job done, similarly, if the members do not support the union then disband, you are wasting time and money.

[RadarMaggot]

Radar Pete

Again, preaching to the choir here...

ATCO's in South Africa will never stand together!! Never happened in the last 15 years and the future seems bleak as well. I hear laughter again coming from the western side...

I sometimes wonder myself why I do get "worked up" to challenge the present authority (and by this I mean the rules, regulations, procedures etc) as I am just sending my "moer-meter" and blood pressure into the red for nothing.

Working 3nm in the TMA - it will never happen in the near future because it is being pushed for from the ATC side and it makes sense . Maybe if the "initiative" comes from HQ perhaps?

Even the RET's at JS are still left unused - WHY PEOPLE????? How much paperwork do you still want to generate? Or are you afraid of putting your name on the "project" and fear for your position in the event of a "stuff-up"? Grow up and think towards the future! But again there goes my meter into the red... Is ACSA waiting for ATNS, ATNS waiting for SACAA and SACAA waiting for ACSA and ATNS - evil circle perhaps? Someone must be able to get the ball rolling.

Another problem we have that I'm sure other high capacity coutries don't have to contend with - the airlines and operators have too much say into what goes on in our airspace - if they don't like, it gets shoved!!

I've said it to senior managers and I will say it again: Traffic dictates traffic flow in the airspace, NOT THE AIRLINES AND OPERATORS! But again, it makes sense so it gets shoved...

[Beside myself]

"Old habits are hampering new vision" (from flight international mag)

This is exactly what's happening in ATNS. Brand new, multi-million rand equipment, SSI's still written in the original penmanship of the Wright brother's! Instead of moving forward and accepting that what 1st world countries do HAS to happen here, the big boys dig their heals in and say, "No! It can't be done!"

I understand it's not an over-night thing and other things need to be developed first, but at least start moving in that direction.

As for CT's 50 new ATC's: A bit of maths...

Assume the ATC's work the max of 154 hours a cycle. Works out to roughly 7 hours a shift of dual.
Assume that it's viable to train them at all hours (so three ATC's per day) and each ATC needs 100hrs to validate.

That's 5 000hrs of training with 462hrs of that achieved per cycle. So about 10 cycles are required to train them all up before world cup.

TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE!!!

Same can be said for JS and DN/La Mercy!

[RadarMaggot]

Days OFF buy-back

Got info from the union a few days ago: 55% of the members (that voted) said NO to the buy-back offer.

We'll wait and see what ATNS comes up with now...

[Late 1976]

Has anyone either checked with FACT if there are indeed 50 there to be trained?

Can anyone from FACT maybe tell us?

I heard from a reliable source in FAJS that there are no foreign ATC's going there, as the salary advertised was a mistake (by whoever placed the add), and so the foriegners are interested anymore. Also ATNS went the wrong way about it when negotiating with, first the foreign ATC's, and then only their respective ANSP's, which seem to have upset the ANSP's.

Anyway, forward and onward!