UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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It's not just £11m (or £45m) as a one-off. It's £11m (or £45m) off the cost base from the end of CP2 onwards into CP3.(Although I admit not giving £43m away now would have given us some breathing space to find the long-term reductions).
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Hmmmm,
"Night-Time Operations
During the night shift both Swanwick and Prestwick are operational with minimal air traffic. This results in an inefficient and costly service from the perspective of resources used. We therefore believe there is some scope to deliver a more cost-effective and efficient night time operation. "
Has he heard the word Uberlingen?
"Night-Time Operations
During the night shift both Swanwick and Prestwick are operational with minimal air traffic. This results in an inefficient and costly service from the perspective of resources used. We therefore believe there is some scope to deliver a more cost-effective and efficient night time operation. "
Has he heard the word Uberlingen?
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During the night shift both Swanwick and Prestwick are operational with minimal air traffic. This results in an inefficient and costly service from the perspective of resources used. We therefore believe there is some scope to deliver a more cost-effective and efficient night time operation.
Yes, true. Probably a bit like firemen. Most fires happen during the day, and firemen are expensive when they do nothing, so send them home at night, that'll save some money. You don't mind being on hold until the next shift do you?
Yes, true. Probably a bit like firemen. Most fires happen during the day, and firemen are expensive when they do nothing, so send them home at night, that'll save some money. You don't mind being on hold until the next shift do you?
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I wonder if the robber Barron is a relative of a the Chairman of the CAA who when visiting West Drayton about 20 years ago asked "Why do we have all you people on nightshifts when Heathrow is closed at night?"
Last edited by DC10RealMan; 29th May 2009 at 06:27.
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"Night-Time Operations
During the night shift both Swanwick and Prestwick are operational with minimal air traffic. This results in an inefficient and costly service from the perspective of resources used. We therefore believe there is some scope to deliver a more cost-effective and efficient night time operation. "
During the night shift both Swanwick and Prestwick are operational with minimal air traffic. This results in an inefficient and costly service from the perspective of resources used. We therefore believe there is some scope to deliver a more cost-effective and efficient night time operation. "
by closing sectors and screwing the airlines around? (Brilliant service delivery that one)
By reducing the staff?
How?
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Where to start?
The £45M a year saving is to protect profits... Barron states it clearly here:
and here:
It is ostensibly because of traffic levels etc. Therefore at some point in the future when traffic rises, we will be making normal profits plus £45M at least.
Does the patronising idiot not realise that we do understand it? I think this is a reference to comments about the dividend payout.
What people are hacked off about is the fact that the £43M could have been used to offset costs until such time as we brought savings sensibly into line.
Hell, with a bit of foresight and planning we could even have said we would use £9M of the profit a year for the next 5 years, therefore only needing to find a saving of £36M per year. Traffic levels in 5 years time will be at least as high as 2007. This is obvioulsy very simplified, but you get my drift.
A simple (fictional) analogy - I no longer get my guaranteed 5 AAVAs a year which I stupidly relied on to survive. I therefore have to make a saving of £2k a year to make up for this. This is for the forseeable future as traffic levels are low.
I suddenly win £2k on the lottery
. A one-off windfall. Do I:
a). Spunk the money on a holiday because it is a one-of windfall
or
b). Use it towards the savings I find myself having to make, thus making a smaller burden on my future finances?
Making the savings:
There are already rumours in TC that say ATSAs will no longer be aligned to watches but will in fact be in one big pool with individual rostering.
It is a known fact that Management want ATCOs to do this as well.
Purely from a TC perspective (though I'm sure all other units have similar circumstances)... Every single night ATCOs in TC bandbox different sector groups to reduce the manning burden. This is done voluntarily and is not enforceable.
It is done under goodwill even though our comms equipment has not been approved for cross coupling by management... which would make the process easier and safer instead of the constant closing and opening of frequencies whcih must drive AC bonkers with pain in the arse phone calls at 2 in the morning.
If ATCOs were to work normal bandboxed sector configurations instead of bandboxing different sector groups together, TC would need at least 6 more ATCOs per night shift to operate legally. Considering this is an extra 50% of manpower, it is not insignificant. This extra manpower is currently used to shore up numbers during the day by the use of spin shifts.
The ATSAs in TC are already at the bare minimum for nightshifts after the recent VRs.
This announcement by Barron has been timed to hit the streets whilst the pay ballot is open. It is written in a way that will make people doubt the viability of the companys finances and to make them worry about job security.
Is the timing a mere coincidence?
Nowhere in his e-mail does Barron thank the staff for the hard work and effort they continue to do despite them being worried about job security.
Again in TC (just as an example and I know it is not unique in this), ATCOs work extra sectors over and above contract. About 75% of us do this, the number would be higher but not everyone can be released to cross train due to staffing levels or inexperience on their primary sector (newly valid). This is all goodwill but the OPs room would not run without it.
This extra work ethic extends way beyond ATCOs though. All grades do it, the office workers at CTC who we like to give a hard time are no different... in fact a lot of them work huge amounts of extra unpaid hours to bring projects etc in on time.
Management take this for granted - as is evident by lack of any acknowledgement by Barron in his latest missive.
We are getting briefs from our OMs over the next few weeks which include Vision 2011. I think one of the headlibes of Visions was 'Liberating and Inspiring People'.
Barron has completely failed to do this in his message. Not only does he patronise his staff, but he tries scaremongering whilst not even thanking staff for their continued support (of NATS, not him).
Basic man management principles that our Chief Executive either doesn't care about, or has forgotten about in his scramble to instill fear in the workforce whilst the pay ballot is open.
Vote 'No' to show the Board our feeling about the way we are being treated - we have no other means of doing this at the moment.
More jobs will be shed even with a 'yes' vote so don't fool yourselves into believing otherwise.
However, generating profit is becoming more challenging because of falling traffic levels, rising costs and significant pressure on prices as we consult customers about Control Period 3
and here:
This is why it continues to be important to save £45m from NERL’s controllable operating cost base by the end of Control Period 2
Before I go further, I want to be clear about the £45m, as I think there is some confusion surrounding it.
What people are hacked off about is the fact that the £43M could have been used to offset costs until such time as we brought savings sensibly into line.
Hell, with a bit of foresight and planning we could even have said we would use £9M of the profit a year for the next 5 years, therefore only needing to find a saving of £36M per year. Traffic levels in 5 years time will be at least as high as 2007. This is obvioulsy very simplified, but you get my drift.
A simple (fictional) analogy - I no longer get my guaranteed 5 AAVAs a year which I stupidly relied on to survive. I therefore have to make a saving of £2k a year to make up for this. This is for the forseeable future as traffic levels are low.
I suddenly win £2k on the lottery
. A one-off windfall. Do I:a). Spunk the money on a holiday because it is a one-of windfall
or
b). Use it towards the savings I find myself having to make, thus making a smaller burden on my future finances?
Making the savings:
Operational Resourcing
It is a known fact that Management want ATCOs to do this as well.
Night-Time Operations
It is done under goodwill even though our comms equipment has not been approved for cross coupling by management... which would make the process easier and safer instead of the constant closing and opening of frequencies whcih must drive AC bonkers with pain in the arse phone calls at 2 in the morning.
If ATCOs were to work normal bandboxed sector configurations instead of bandboxing different sector groups together, TC would need at least 6 more ATCOs per night shift to operate legally. Considering this is an extra 50% of manpower, it is not insignificant. This extra manpower is currently used to shore up numbers during the day by the use of spin shifts.
The ATSAs in TC are already at the bare minimum for nightshifts after the recent VRs.
This announcement by Barron has been timed to hit the streets whilst the pay ballot is open. It is written in a way that will make people doubt the viability of the companys finances and to make them worry about job security.
Is the timing a mere coincidence?
Nowhere in his e-mail does Barron thank the staff for the hard work and effort they continue to do despite them being worried about job security.
Again in TC (just as an example and I know it is not unique in this), ATCOs work extra sectors over and above contract. About 75% of us do this, the number would be higher but not everyone can be released to cross train due to staffing levels or inexperience on their primary sector (newly valid). This is all goodwill but the OPs room would not run without it.
This extra work ethic extends way beyond ATCOs though. All grades do it, the office workers at CTC who we like to give a hard time are no different... in fact a lot of them work huge amounts of extra unpaid hours to bring projects etc in on time.
Management take this for granted - as is evident by lack of any acknowledgement by Barron in his latest missive.
We are getting briefs from our OMs over the next few weeks which include Vision 2011. I think one of the headlibes of Visions was 'Liberating and Inspiring People'.
Barron has completely failed to do this in his message. Not only does he patronise his staff, but he tries scaremongering whilst not even thanking staff for their continued support (of NATS, not him).
Basic man management principles that our Chief Executive either doesn't care about, or has forgotten about in his scramble to instill fear in the workforce whilst the pay ballot is open.
Vote 'No' to show the Board our feeling about the way we are being treated - we have no other means of doing this at the moment.
More jobs will be shed even with a 'yes' vote so don't fool yourselves into believing otherwise.
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I am sure that NATS management think that Uberlingen is a company quoted on the German stock exchange, if it is not then they are not interested. Call me old fashioned but if there is a flight safety hazard as some of you think then surely you as individuals should be raising your concerns with the Civil Aviation Authority.
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Brand values are coming along nicely, so far we've manage to liberate 250 people from the bondage of employment.
I wonder what the real meaning of "inspiring" is going to be...
I wonder what the real meaning of "inspiring" is going to be...
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DC10RealMan
But isn't the guy at the top the one they brought into privatise us..won't get much sympathy there then!!
Call me old fashioned but if there is a flight safety hazard as some of you think then surely you as individuals should be raising your concerns with the Civil Aviation Authority.
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KATS-I
I think that you are missing the point. You claim that you are all professionals and therefore if you all believe that there is a flight safety hazard then you are legally and morally bound to bring it to the attention of the CAA. If however, the CAA does not agree then you have fulfilled your obligations both personally and professionally. If an accident occurs due to a failure in the system and you have not reported it then Barron and his cohorts can claim with some justifaction that they were unaware of it and the blame will stay with the workers, if however they were told and nothing was done due to financial or other restrictions then they (the management) have no defence.
I think that you are missing the point. You claim that you are all professionals and therefore if you all believe that there is a flight safety hazard then you are legally and morally bound to bring it to the attention of the CAA. If however, the CAA does not agree then you have fulfilled your obligations both personally and professionally. If an accident occurs due to a failure in the system and you have not reported it then Barron and his cohorts can claim with some justifaction that they were unaware of it and the blame will stay with the workers, if however they were told and nothing was done due to financial or other restrictions then they (the management) have no defence.
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Rostering changes? 6 on 3 off here we come.
And the worst thing is that we brought it on ourselves by voting the pension changes through.That was our opportunity to stand up to this idiot. Now we are ROYALLY f*cked.
And the worst thing is that we brought it on ourselves by voting the pension changes through.That was our opportunity to stand up to this idiot. Now we are ROYALLY f*cked.
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I agree with DC10, but i would suggest you do so many times over.
One person described a hazard and weakness in current/poposed system, and ensures this is recorded. Maybe Mgt disregard, but if anything happens they can be found negligent
20 people report the same hazard (in their own words). Mgt have to address it. You may still not like their answer but they have to address it.
If you still aren't satisfied then alert the union, who are empowereed to act on safety issues. they could also coordinate with the CAA.
IF you believe there really is a safety issue, then you are morally obliged to do this. And you are negligent if you don't IMO
One person described a hazard and weakness in current/poposed system, and ensures this is recorded. Maybe Mgt disregard, but if anything happens they can be found negligent
20 people report the same hazard (in their own words). Mgt have to address it. You may still not like their answer but they have to address it.
If you still aren't satisfied then alert the union, who are empowereed to act on safety issues. they could also coordinate with the CAA.
IF you believe there really is a safety issue, then you are morally obliged to do this. And you are negligent if you don't IMO
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A shed load of money wasted on TRM..everyone said so at the time but no...management knew better about what to spend/waste money on.
They obviously didn't learn anything about teamwork from it.
They obviously didn't learn anything about teamwork from it.
Disappointed
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TRM anyone? Destinations? New Horizons? How about some ludicrous, unnecessary re-branding? Project 2011? C4P? SAP? NIBS? Business Warehouse? How about SACTA?
Or any number of other ways to pee pee cash up the wall.
Here's a revolutionary idea; let's cut the American pseudo-psycho nonsense and the forced, irrelevant ways in which we can all be made to seem and feel happy clappy, none of which work, and get back to stopping stuff banging into each other.
Too many chiefs with too many semi-non-air traffic related and more to the point expensive projects to flap around CTC about with countless other managers and middle-managers.
Let's have controllers, have assistants, have engineers, have those who manage them and have a simple admin structure to back the whole kit and caboodle up. It worked in the past, and it'd work now - and let me tell you something, it'd put a hell of a lot of pride back into my working life and I dare say, the working life of most of my colleagues.
Or any number of other ways to pee pee cash up the wall.
Here's a revolutionary idea; let's cut the American pseudo-psycho nonsense and the forced, irrelevant ways in which we can all be made to seem and feel happy clappy, none of which work, and get back to stopping stuff banging into each other.
Too many chiefs with too many semi-non-air traffic related and more to the point expensive projects to flap around CTC about with countless other managers and middle-managers.
Let's have controllers, have assistants, have engineers, have those who manage them and have a simple admin structure to back the whole kit and caboodle up. It worked in the past, and it'd work now - and let me tell you something, it'd put a hell of a lot of pride back into my working life and I dare say, the working life of most of my colleagues.
