Cardiff-2 [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Severn

13th Sep 2017, 08:39

That's very good news for CWL. Hopefully the research has been done and both QR and CWL are confident they'll be able to make this route a success.
In numbers, it will mean 22 Business Class seats and 232 Economy seats to fill, totalling 254 seats a day, and nearly 1,800 a week. Obviously they won't need to fill it to break even and with underbelly cargo, that'll offset any costs too.
Remember, airports make their money from passenger footfall, as well as car parking and other ancillary revinues. At 100% load factor QR is only going to bring 92,710 extra passengers through CWL a year, so let's hope it's the money spent on getting QR in, plus anything to be spent on upgrades and marketing will make up for that.
92,710 seats is the equivalent to another 2-3 Flybe flights per day so although a fantastic airline to have operating out of CWL, I hope it's all beneficial to CWL and Wales as a whole - especially given the talk that the WG may have had a hand in getting QR in.

Letsflycwl

13th Sep 2017, 15:40

I imagine there will also be a considerable amount of cargo on the QR flight too given the size of the Dreamliner.

They best get those airbridges revamped and ready for the 1st May too.....

Jerry123

13th Sep 2017, 16:19

I imagine there will also be a considerable amount of cargo on the QR flight too given the size of the Dreamliner.

They best get those airbridges revamped and ready for the 1st May too.....
The cargo facility also needs expanding as well.
Only really need a new bridge on stand 7 really as that's the only stand with an airbridge that can take widebodies. Replacing 9 and 10 would be pointless as they wouldn't get that much regular use to warrant the cost.

Letsflycwl

13th Sep 2017, 18:24

True the end airbridge needs a bit of TLC and revamp for the QR flights.....I very much doubt they will fee stand it using steps for such a prestige route as this.

crewmeal

13th Sep 2017, 18:44

That's very good news for CWL

Lets hope it doesn't dilute the BHX loads.

Jerry123

13th Sep 2017, 19:01

True the end airbridge needs a bit of TLC and revamp for the QR flights.....I very much doubt they will fee stand it using steps for such a prestige route as this.
As far as I know apart from during the Champions League final or when the French rugby 777s have been at the airport all of the widebodied routes CWL has uses the bridge on stand 7 but it can only to the first door of a A330 and 767 and 787. I'd have thought that Qatar would want it to go to the 2nd door so people from economy aren't going through business class so hopefully that means a fully adjustable airbridge will be installed then which can also mean Thomson and Flybe can use it as well.

VickersVicount

13th Sep 2017, 19:02

.... cant imagine the CWL spotters will care much about that.
Odd its not a consistent daily departure time.

Jerry123

13th Sep 2017, 19:16

.... cant imagine the CWL spotters will care much about that.
Odd its not a consistent daily departure time.

It's the same for EDI BHX and MAN the times alternate between morning and afternoon departures.

WALES-TAG-TOP

13th Sep 2017, 19:24

I have been looking at today's news re. Qatar. An important KLM flight, Cancelled, also, the London city flight, Cancelled? What can business people expect, as they look at the arrivals board today, and see this debarkle?
My colleagues Edinburgh flight has a 3 hour and 20 minute delay. Can someone have the common decency to explain this poor show?

Jerry123

13th Sep 2017, 19:27

wiggy

13th Sep 2017, 19:32

What jerry said..

It is not just Cardiff, where I am sitting elsewhere in the U.K. one look at the departures board at 8PM shows several departing flights still to go and with one hour plus delays...all caused by the high winds across the U.K. and sections of the continent last night and earlier today.

WALES-TAG-TOP

14th Sep 2017, 07:28

caaardiff

14th Sep 2017, 07:43

Bristol had 2 cancelled KLM flights yesterday. In total KLM cancelled over 150 yesterday. Maybe instead of the arrogant postings on here you should contact KLM if it means that much to you.

Harry Wayfarers

14th Sep 2017, 08:06

Once again, today's 09.30am arrival is cancelled ? Over the channel, Bristols is due to land at 08.43am? So no Michael Fish observations about weather. Where is Cardiffs plane? Or are there not enough pax......

Yes, truly SHOCKING that a flight should be cancelled, have you contacted your local MP regarding this outrage yet?

sinbad73

14th Sep 2017, 08:50

Bristol had 2 cancelled KLM flights yesterday. In total KLM cancelled over 150 yesterday. Maybe instead of the arrogant postings on here you should contact KLM if it means that much to you.

KLM cancellations due Storm Aileen

Flights between Newcastle and Amsterdam cancelled after high winds hit Netherlands - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/flights-between-newcastle-amsterdam-scrapped-13615782)

heading 125

15th Sep 2017, 09:51

W-T-T. I can tell you it's much better being on the ground wishing you were in the air than being in the air wishing you were on the ground. In those wind conditions the control column and throttles are moved like they are on drugs just to keep the aircraft on the ILS and the landing ....well

WALES-TAG-TOP

15th Sep 2017, 14:35

Letsflycwl

20th Sep 2017, 16:29

Jerry123

20th Sep 2017, 19:17

Belfast City goes double daily Mon-Fri from Winter 2017....nice increase, surprised its taken this long in reality.

Thats going to be our based Dash 8 then......whats going to be added in between these sectors ? Any idea ?
The Dash will do DUB GLA ORK/JER BHD Monday to Friday then on Saturday DUB EDI in the morning looks parked in the afternoon.
Sunday DUB in the morning then ORK and GLA in the afternoon/evening.

Letsflycwl

20th Sep 2017, 19:27

So appears there is nothing new for Winter 2017-2018 for the E195’s ?

Jerry123

20th Sep 2017, 19:51

So appears there is nothing new for Winter 2017-2018 for the E195’s ?

Apart from operating the morning BHD flight nope. It looks like they'll be parked during any gaps which is really only during parts in late November and late January when the Faro flight gets dropped in certain weeks. Unless there are charters I don't know about.
There will be extra flights for the Six nations as well for the Scotland Ireland and French games.

Letsflycwl

20th Sep 2017, 20:56

Jerry123

21st Sep 2017, 07:54

Yeah im sure they are bound to pick up some Rugby charters for the Six Nations.

I suppose next summer may show some extra flights as its previously been mentioned that charter flights may be done too !! I know Thomson/TUI are mooted to be reoffering VRN next year on BE aircraft.
Thomson will be selling Lakes packages for June 2018 using Flybe's flights to Verona. Hopefully if Flybe look at other destinations in the future then Thomson will use them as that's the only way i can see anything new or returned routes from TOM with the exception of say Egypt.
Thomas Cook are offering Thailand packages on Qatar's flights from May onwards as well.

Jerry123

21st Sep 2017, 17:33

Thomas Cook is bringing back Antalya for summer 2018. Weekly flight on a Friday May to October on a Bristol based A321.

Letsflycwl

21st Sep 2017, 17:51

Thats some more good news for CWL for Summer 2018 then, be even better if Thomas Cook base the A321 instead of the leased A320

Also looks like DLM is going twice weekly too for Summer 2018

bycrewlgw

25th Sep 2017, 08:14

Jerry123

25th Sep 2017, 21:18

There are some 1 stop options on sale from VLY via CWL on Skyscanner but they do have some long waits and I'd imagine the pax would have to recheck their luggage.

BAladdy

25th Sep 2017, 23:14

I see that BE are now marketing VLY, NCL and ABZ from Cardiff. Fares available through BE website following on from the franchise agreement. All flights still operated by T3. No connections from VLY via CWL yet but wonder if they will start at some point?
Just noticed that VLY flights are only bookable until 23MAR18. Have T3 lost the contract to operate this service?

All other T3 operated routes (apart from ABZ-LSI) are currently available to book until JUN18.

Jerry123

10th Oct 2017, 17:53

The Flybe base at CWL will return to being an all E jet base at the beginning of Summer 18. An E175 aircraft will replace the current Q400 aircraft.
At the moment the schedule for all 3 aircraft is incomplete with gaps on Tuesdays Wednesdays and Saturdays which could accommodate new routes or extra frequencies on current routes or probably both.

Letsflycwl

10th Oct 2017, 18:45

That would fit in with the Flybe “charter” rumours for Summer 2018, 2 E95’s and 1 E75 and the gaps in the timetable too

Jerry123

10th Oct 2017, 20:07

Yes looking at the gaps then this potential for routes to the med as far as DBV and MLA for the E195s and for southern France maybe northern Italy for the gaps for the E175. Though Saturday afternoon for the E175 I'd expect to be filled with BHD and EDI as they aren't on sale but the gaps for it on Tuesday and Wednesday may get filled with European routes.

MARKEYD

11th Oct 2017, 08:44

Is it possible the aircraft might position to other UK airports to operate charters ?
I am thinking for example no aircraft at present to operate SOU -JSI on a Tuesday afternoon , as at the moment the only jet aircraft allocated that is on the SOU - PMI run , just a thought

Jerry123

11th Oct 2017, 10:28

I can't see it myself apart from the E175 on Saturday afternoons the gaps aren't large enough. The gaps are like 5 to 6 hours long.

Jerry123

11th Oct 2017, 10:33

Cardiff Airport to get a £4 million terminal and car parking upgrade.
The departures area and the executive lounge will be expanded. Retail space will be expanded including a larger WH Smith store a new Costa coffee outlet in departures and one in arrivals.
There will be a new meet and great car park with a dedicated drop off and pick up area close to the terminal and a new car hire centre close to the terminal building.
www.cardiff-airport.com/news/2017/10/11/terminal-and-car-park-investment-unveiled/

Quake

11th Oct 2017, 11:59

Do you know who is providing the Finance Jerry? The link didn't seem to mention it.

Jerry123

11th Oct 2017, 18:08

Not really but I am guessing the airport owners the Welsh government.

Jerry123

11th Oct 2017, 19:33

Have just been told that it's part of a £10 million loan the Welsh government setup a while ago for terminal upgrades.

canberra97

11th Oct 2017, 22:49

Are any upgrades to the airbridges included in this planned investment?

Letsflycwl

12th Oct 2017, 05:13

Jerry123

12th Oct 2017, 05:52

Are any upgrades to the airbridges included in this planned investment?

Not as far as I know. It's not mentioned in the article. Would be nice to have new ones but I don't think it's a priority. The one on stand 7 can connect up to a 787 and A330 but with Qatar it will mean economy passengers going through business class. If Qatar don't want that then I'm guessing it'll be replaced if they don't mind then it'll probably stay. The one on stand 9 is knackered while the one on 10 gets used by Vueling Iberia Express and Thomas Cook.

Jerry123

12th Oct 2017, 06:12

With Qatar Airways starting in May you would hope that the end airbridge especially would have some form of revamp.

It’s a shame the other 2 bridges are not lowered to allow them to connect to the BE Embraers and B737’s. Who knows reallly....
If Qatar are happy with the economy passengers going through business class then i doubt they'll change the one on stand 7.

I'd be surprised if BE would want to use them even if they were fully adjustable as it slows down their turnaround time's same with Ryanair.
I'd imagine TOM would use 7 if it was fully adjustable and KLM would use 9. The other airline's either can't or already do use 10.
Fully working airbridges are nice but at the moment I don't think they are a necessity for the airport.

Quake

12th Oct 2017, 14:28

Not really but I am guessing the airport owners the Welsh government.

Oh the taxpayer. Historicly the taxpayer has invested and/or bailed out Cardiff airport a number of times and as usuall the debt is socialised (the taxpayer pays) and the profit is privatised, a bit like the railways. Reverse socialism, the western way, makes me want to puke.

Jerry123

12th Oct 2017, 15:30

The taxpayer owns MAG and BHX yet no one complains about that.
It was either buy it or see it turned into a housing estate and leave Wales without an airport.

Alvechurch

12th Oct 2017, 16:04

No subsidies from the taxpayer for BHX because the owners are:

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan 48.25%
Seven West Midlands Metropolitan Boroughs 49%
Airport Employees 2.75%

LAX_LHR

12th Oct 2017, 16:20

And MAN hasn't had a council payout in a long time, it usually goes the other way with MAG paying the council a dividend.

Jerry123

12th Oct 2017, 17:25

No subsidies from the taxpayer for BHX because the owners are:

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan 48.25%
Seven West Midlands Metropolitan Boroughs 49%
Airport Employees 2.75%

And that is what the Welsh government wants CWL to be eventually a public private partnership but to get it to that point they have to invest in it.

Callum Paterson

12th Oct 2017, 18:10

I love going to work everyday to keep airports like Prestwick, Cardiff and others afloat. Like others, it makes me want to vomit.

AirGuru

12th Oct 2017, 18:55

If Qatar are happy with the economy passengers going through business class then i doubt they'll change the one on stand 7.

I'd be surprised if BE would want to use them even if they were fully adjustable as it slows down their turnaround time's same with Ryanair.
I'd imagine TOM would use 7 if it was fully adjustable and KLM would use 9. The other airline's either can't or already do use 10.
Fully working airbridges are nice but at the moment I don't think they are a necessity for the airport.

BE don’t need/want airbridge use. Their Embraers already have steps built into them as far as i can remember.

Absurd comments about state support, there are so many state supported elements around you, you really wouldn’t believe how much is these days to some extent.

Jerry123

12th Oct 2017, 19:08

I love going to work everyday to keep airports like Prestwick, Cardiff and others afloat. Like others, it makes me want to vomit.
Are you Welsh? If not you aren't keeping Cardiff open.

caaardiff

12th Oct 2017, 19:49

SWBKCB

12th Oct 2017, 20:17

Totally agree, just a shame that other regions of the UK don't have access to such funding.

Wycombe

12th Oct 2017, 22:23

Noticed an EI A320 (AMS-ORK) heading into CWL wearing 7700 earlier this evening.

bcn_boy

12th Oct 2017, 23:11

I love going to work everyday to keep airports like Prestwick, Cardiff and others afloat. Like others, it makes me want to vomit.
I don’t like to go to work everyday to clean up your vomit but somebody has to, now drop the dramas, this is an airport forum.

Jerry123

12th Oct 2017, 23:46

Noticed an EI A320 (AMS-ORK) heading into CWL wearing 7700 earlier this evening.

Emergency landing. Pilot declared a mayday with fumes in the cabin.

Harry Wayfarers

13th Oct 2017, 04:28

Airports play a part in growing the economy. If CWL wasn't there, yes many people would simply transfer to using BRS, but with that so may some industries.

The key element is that CWL isn't just there to take people on their holidays, it's there to provide links to businesses across the UK, Europe and the World, which will help grow the Welsh economy. This isn't something that's going to change overnight, but is already happening with the links provided by BE and now QR.

Governments bail out companies all the time, especially in Wales and the Airport is no different to that and key to helping the Welsh economy.
CWL needs to start somewhere, as it was left to deteriorate over the years, both structurally and commercially. People on here seem to expect things to happen overnight and it to become an instant success. Wales and the WG is pitching itself to the world, which will help the Airport grow as inbound tourism and business will grow. It's small steps but BE is continuing to grow and is rumoured to be happy with the success of CWL. Hopefully QR will be the same.
Given the current state of the Airport, the investment is needed. The work that's gone into growing the business once more is slowly paying off, but is not going to create instant profits to do the work that's really required now. It's an investment by the Welsh government, not only in the Airport, but in the economy.

But CWL isn't serving Wales except for the bottom right hand portion of it, Cardiff, Bridgend, even Newport might be a toss up between CWL and BRS, OK the re-opening of the railway between Barry and Bridgend gives commuters an alternative rail option to get further west in to Wales but BHX serves mid Wales more appropriately and LPL serves north Wales more appropriately than CWL ever shall, if WAG were really interested in opening up Wales to worldwide air travellers surely they'd be doing something about Hawarden.

And as for travellers from Europe and the world, I can assure you that the vast majority of them refer to the British Isles as UK, Britain, or England, let's say their destination is Wrexham, what percentage of them do you think actually recognise that Wrexham is in a country other than England? ... And, yes, they are ignorant!

Jerry123

13th Oct 2017, 09:56

Considering that 2/3rds of the population of Wales is in it's catchment area I'd say that it was serving Wales.
As to people thinking Wrexham was in England then that is all about awareness and promoting Wales through events like the Champions League final and attracting airlines like Qatar.
I also believe that the Welsh government are looking at other intra Wales routes. Whether that includes Hawarden I don't know.

supermarine

13th Oct 2017, 10:53

Ignore foggy, he has an axe to grind regarding CWL for some reason.

Harry Wayfarers

13th Oct 2017, 11:09

Think what you like, I had a great few years working at CWL looking out of the window to learn that 'Car Park' in Welsh is 'Parc Car' :)

A previous post, as do so many, referred to BRS as the competitor to serve Wales other than CWL, how the hell does BRS serve Aberporth, Aberystwyth, Pwlheli and Wrexham, to name but four, any better than CWL does when the truth is that neither of them serve these locations adequately ... Might as well say that CWL & BRS serve Birmingham and the Black Country.

As to people thinking Wrexham was in England then that is all about awareness and promoting Wales through events like the Champions League final and attracting airlines like Qatar.

So people travelling to/from Wrexham are going to route via CWL rather than via BHX or MAN? ... Yeah, sure they are!

Jerry123

13th Oct 2017, 13:54

Firstly I never said that people traveling to and from Wrexham would go via CWL i said that awareness of Wales will help people know the difference and having a national airport even if it's in the south will help with that.
Do you think that the Champions League final would've come to Wales if Cardiff Airport didn't exist? Yes BRS BHX and MAN and even Heathrow all serve Wales in their own way but the problem with those airports is they aren't IN Wales they are in England. Wales is a country so having it's OWN airport helps promote it and it's economy.

yeo valley

13th Oct 2017, 15:19

The 4 airports mentioned must be a worry to CWL. Rather than just throw money at routes and things in general,i think management of CWL sit down and work out where they not doing things right. If things were correct in the general layout of services and airport layout then given time the pax will return to cwl. Whatever service anyone offers if its a good service then ppl will use it.

Jerry123

13th Oct 2017, 17:30

The 4 airports mentioned are always going to take passengers off CWL but with the right investment and airlines CWL can be a viable airport for the country. Since the Welsh government have taken over it is recovering. Flybe do seem to be developing a good base and are probably the right airline for the airport. Vueling are established and slowy adding flights and TOM and TCX continue to plod along steadily and of course Qatar Airways start next year. Only thing to question is Ryanairs intentions. The airport has a lot to do but is going in the right direction.

Harry Wayfarers

13th Oct 2017, 20:55

The 4 airports mentioned are always going to take passengers off CWL but with the right investment and airlines CWL can be a viable airport for the country.

First of all I think the point is that CWL should be trying to take passengers away from the other 4 and not vice versa whilst suggesting that CWL can be a viable airport for Wales is similar to suggesting that DUB can be a viable airport for Ireland.

Then why does Ireland also have international airports in SNN and ORK to name but two, never mind the regional airports, yes DUB is a viable airport for Ireland but, if it didn't have connecting flights, it can only serve a portion oif Ireland much the same as CWL that, besides Holyhead, doesn't have connecting flights and can only serve a portion of Wales.

If only Air Wales had stuck with Do228's then they might still be going, allbeit on minimal profits, providing puddle jumper services around the airports of Wales!

Jerry123

14th Oct 2017, 04:04

First of all I think the point is that CWL should be trying to take passengers away from the other 4 and not vice versa whilst suggesting that CWL can be a viable airport for Wales is similar to suggesting that DUB can be a viable airport for Ireland.

Then why does Ireland also have international airports in SNN and ORK to name but two, never mind the regional airports, yes DUB is a viable airport for Ireland but, if it didn't have connecting flights, it can only serve a portion oif Ireland much the same as CWL that, besides Holyhead, doesn't have connecting flights and can only serve a portion of Wales.

If only Air Wales had stuck with Do228's then they might still be going, allbeit on minimal profits, providing puddle jumper services around the airports of Wales!

Wales and Ireland have completely different demographics and Ireland is much bigger geographically also Ireland has a big advantage over Wales. Firstly it's an independent country secondly it has a large amount of inbound American tourism thirdly it's major airport is TATL hub and fourthly it has a larger awareness around the world than Wales.

Harry Wayfarers

14th Oct 2017, 06:18

Wales and Ireland have completely different demographics and Ireland is much bigger geographically also Ireland has a big advantage over Wales. Firstly it's an independent country secondly it has a large amount of inbound American tourism thirdly it's major airport is TATL hub and fourthly it has a larger awareness around the world than Wales.

Is there anywhere that anyone may make a comparison with Wales where the response won't be a disagreement, to the effect, "But we're different"?

How are Cardiff Aviation doing, are they paying their staff and their rent yet or are monies still being written off by the Welsh government?

Anodyne

14th Oct 2017, 07:48

Are you Welsh? If not you aren't keeping Cardiff open.

Actually not sure thats true. The block grant that funds the WAG is paid for out of UK national taxation, and the spend per head is greater in each of the devolved areas than it is in England.
As somebody who works at CWL I hope it does well, but can quite understand a degree of antipathy from, say a Bristol airport worker, who sees some of their tax bill fund a competitor that may negatively impact their own job security.
I think that colleagues and supporters of CWL should be careful about an apparent feeling of 'entitlement' to external funding that isn't available elsewhere.

inOban

14th Oct 2017, 08:05

But it up to the democratically elected WAG as to where it spends its allocation. And, since it uses a form of proportional representation, it's more democratically elected than Westminster. I'm not taking sides here on whether the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Harry Wayfarers

14th Oct 2017, 08:06

Actually not sure thats true. The block grant that funds the WAG is paid for out of UK national taxation, and the spend per head is greater in each of the devolved areas than it is in England.
As somebody who works at CWL I hope it does well, but can quite understand a degree of antipathy from, say a Bristol airport worker, who sees some of their tax bill fund a competitor that may negatively impact their own job security.
I think that colleagues and supporters of CWL should be careful about an apparent feeling of 'entitlement' to external funding that isn't available elsewhere.

I'm not Welsh but I owned a house with a CF62 postcode for 23 years ... It's not just the Welsh that pay their taxes in Wales!

SWBKCB

14th Oct 2017, 09:20

A couple of points.

Anodyne was responding to the comment "Are you Welsh? If not you aren't keeping Cardiff open." Wales isn't self-supporting by way of revenue, so if you're paying tax in the UK you are indirectly supporting CWL.

The other point is that CWL is benefiting from support from the Welsh Govt which isn't available to other airports in the UK. An issue of fairness here, particularly as CWL is competing with other airports.

GLAEDI

14th Oct 2017, 09:44

This country has an obsession against Government ownership. CWL maybe owned by the Welsh Government who like a shareholder is investing because they’re looking for a return, wether it’s a direct profit from the airport or the economics that come from the airport in employment, taxes and the rest that will be lost if closed.

2nd Public ownerships only seem bad in this country and the US. Germany (RWE, VW Group, DB), France (EdF, GdF, SNCF) Belgium (SNCB) I can go on! In fact most of the UK rail companies are owned by European public utilities the Dutch, German, France and even the Paris council own our railways!! Our power company’s are owned by French, German and Basque Governments!! MAG and BHX have investments from their local council. Don’t argue they don’t as the councils are shareholders and that’s what shareholders do invest in infrastructure to provide returns. Yes MAG and BHX make profits and maybe they borrow money from the markets but they’ll also receive money from shareholders.

On another note all airports have the same access to Government funds, we have two Parliaments and two Assemblies not forgetting Mayoral assemblies that can invest money. The British Government obsession is London hence crossrail, Thames link, HS1 & 2. Government will spend billions on the infrastructure for LHR RWY 3. So if you live in the Midlands or North West, North East or South West stop going on it’s not fair that Cardiff, Stormont & Holyrood spend their money on this and that, complain to your MPs that all the UK taxes are spent on London! Before anyone says the UK Government subsidies the regions, remember Crossrail, HS 1 & 2 have declared National infrastructure projects ie all UK taxpayers pay for it.

SWBKCB

14th Oct 2017, 10:16

Nothing against Government ownership but it should be fair, open and transparent.

LGS6753

14th Oct 2017, 12:09

This country has an obsession against Government ownership

...because some of us remember how awful, unresponsive and wasteful public ownership was. If you're too young to remember filth and endless delays on railways, having to plead for a telephone line, or being at the mercy of service-prevention departments in electricity companies, and support nationalization, you are living in denial of the facts

yeo valley

14th Oct 2017, 15:07

Walesonline done a report on the aer lingus that diverted in to cwl the other night. The plane was a airbus A320 but the picture shows a Stobart ATR and the report says it had 149 pax on board. Well this is total lazy reporting as no back up done on the report.

GROUNDHOG

14th Oct 2017, 21:12

If only Air Wales had stuck with Do228's then they might still be going, allbeit on minimal profits, providing puddle jumper services around the airports of Wales!

Skybus was the model that should have been followed not that of a low cost carrier. It should and could have been so different, the first profit is the best profit. Five passengers paying £200 is better than eighteen paying £50 and when there is only one way to fly from Cardiff to Cork....:=

Beatts

15th Oct 2017, 11:27

Letsflycwl

18th Oct 2017, 21:29

It’s saying on the Southend thread that BE announce phase 2 of Summer 2018 flights tomorrow, not sure if that’s just for SEN or across their network ?

Be interesting to see if there is anything additional for CWL.....

ATNotts

18th Oct 2017, 21:56

Given that FlyBe are cutting their fleet size I doubt there will be anything significant at any of their bases in the way of expansion - just the usual marketing bluster of lies, half truths and regurgitated announcements that in the real world add up to diddly-squat.

Jerry123

18th Oct 2017, 23:29

There are gaps in the schedule for all 3 aircraft on various days of the week especially Saturday. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something new whether it is a charter or new route.

BAladdy

19th Oct 2017, 07:36

The following BE routes/frequencies have been released for sale through until 09SEP18

Belfast City - 11 x Weekly (2 flights daily Mon-Fri, 1 flight on a Sun)
Berlin - 2 x Weekly (Ops on Thu/Sun)
Cork - 2 x Weekly (Ops on Thu/Sun)
Dublin - 15 x Weekly (3 flights daily Thu/Fri, 2 flights Sun-Wed and 1 flight on a Sat)
Edinburgh - 12 x Weekly (2 flights daily Sun-Fri)
Faro - 4 x Weekly (Ops Tue/Thu/Sat/Sun)
Glasgow - 4 x Weekly (Ops on Mon/Wed/Thu/Fri)
Jersey - Showing as dropping from 3 to 2 x Weekly from 16JUN (Ops Mon/Fri).
Milan - 3 x Weekly (Ops on Mon/Fri/Sun)
Munich - 2 x Weekly (Ops on Mon/Fri)
Paris - 10 x Weekly (2 flights op Mon/Fri/Sun, 1 flight ops Tue/Wed/Thu/Sat)
Rome - 2 x Weekly (Ops on Tue/Sat)
Verona - 2 x Weekly (Ops on Wed/Sat)

Flights operated by Eastern to ABZ and NCL are yet to be released for sale past 17JUN18. VLY flights still only on sale until 23MAR18

Welshtraveller

25th Oct 2017, 16:56

Just received an e-mail from Thomas Cook cancelling flights from Cardiff to Menorca next year. They have offered flights from Bristol instead. Bad news for Cardiff.

Letsflycwl

25th Oct 2017, 18:06

Shame but on a positive note Thomas Cook have added AYT with an A321

Letsflycwl

26th Oct 2017, 10:22

TUI are starting HRG flights as of November 2018, great to see an Egyptian destination back on the destination board too.

Great to see TUI actually offering something new ex CWL as they’ve been pretty short with new destinations here.

fanrailuk

2nd Nov 2017, 11:07

New Flybe route to Venice (Marco Polo) for Summer 2018

Starts Tuesday, 27 March 2018 with flights every Tuesday and Saturday - until Saturday, 8 September

Tuesday
CWL 11:10 - VCE 14:30
VCE 15:30 - CWL 16:20

Saturday
CWL 06:30 - VCE 09:45
VCE 10:15 - CWL 11:40

Letsflycwl

2nd Nov 2017, 16:29

Great to see Flybe adding yet another new destination for Summer 2018, I imagine VCE will be very popular too.

Having the base move to an all Embraer base is a good move and more appealing that the Dash 8 (not that there is anything wrong with that type).

Might we see yet more routes being added before the start of next Summer ?

Jerry123

3rd Nov 2017, 11:17

There is still gaps on Wednesday Saturday and Sunday so I'd be surprised if there wasn't more. Maybe a French route or 2 or Croatia. Prague maybe a possibility as well.

bycrewlgw

29th Nov 2017, 02:00

Just seen for the next few days at least the KLM flights have been upgraded to 737.

Edit: looks to be a temp measure doing a dummy booking in dec

Jerry123

29th Nov 2017, 14:52

What days are they due in?
Flight radar says there are 737s for today and tomorrow but so far today E jets have been turning up.

bycrewlgw

29th Nov 2017, 14:58

Ah that’s where I saw it mate.

yeo valley

29th Nov 2017, 16:16

A few rotations to other UK airports are down as B737 as well. Rear some where it is the 736 model.

Wycombe

29th Nov 2017, 16:22

The 736 is about the only 737 variant that KLM don't have! (or ever have), AFAIK.

FR24 showed SOU as receiving 737's a few days ago, but Embraers turned-up as usual - so I think it's a glich.

Jerry123

29th Nov 2017, 19:07

I've checked in for my morning flight to Cardiff from Amsterdam tomorrow and it's down as an E175. It's a shame but not surprising.

Jerry123

8th Dec 2017, 20:35

CAA stats are in for October 2017.
134,349 passengers passed through the airport during the month up 4.1% on last year. The rolling year was 1,455,115 up 9.2% on this time last year. Atm's 1518 down 2.2% on last year with the rolling year at 17,019 up 8% on this time last year.

Jerry123

8th Dec 2017, 20:36

Top 5 routes for October 2017
1. Amsterdam 12,021
2. Palma de Mallorca 11,383
3. Dublin 10,583
4. Tenerife South 10,419
5. Alicante 10,381

Top 5 with the most growth for October 2017
1. Berlin TXL +116%
2. Anglesey +60%
3. Reus +50%
4. Heraklion +30%
5. Tenerife South +21%

Jerry123

8th Dec 2017, 20:39

Iberia Express Madrid route will start again in June frequency unknown at the moment with flights supposed to be onsale from next week.

Letsflycwl

10th Dec 2017, 20:58

We had 6 British Airways diverts in this evening.....A319, A320 & A321’s all parked up.....

Shame no widebodies but great to see CWL being used as a divert airport

yeo valley

11th Dec 2017, 02:45

Was told last night cwl would not get any widebodies as wx conditions for the runway was not suitable for loaded widebodies. Most of the lhr diverted widebodies went to mainland Europe.

Jerry123

11th Dec 2017, 09:47

Reported elsewhere that CWL did want to accept a JFK-LHR flight that went into the hold above CWL but it decided to divert to Dublin because it was to heavy to land in the conditions.

Letsflycwl

11th Dec 2017, 21:44

It’s been reported elsewhere that Iberia Express are expected to return for Summer 2018 with the MAD-CWL-MAD route operates with A320 aircraft - can’t see it showing at present on their schedule but good news there as loads were quite reasonable and promising for a new route.

Jerry123

12th Dec 2017, 11:25

It's good news for Cardiff. Cardiff needs the route to work and grow to attract other carriers on other city routes.

So far 2018 is looking like a good year for the airport with 4 new/returned routes, a daily wide bodied flight and some new one off charters as well and hopefully more to come from Flybe!

Jerry123

13th Dec 2017, 14:40

Iberia Express Madrid route will start again on the 14th June every Thursday and Sunday.

Letsflycwl

13th Dec 2017, 14:45

It’s great to have Iberia Express back & would have been surprised if they didn’t return in all honesty.

So what’s new so far for 2018?
> QR to DOH
> BE to VCE
> MT to AYT
> TOM to HRG

Plus BE to GCI & now IB to MAD returning.....let’s hope there is more to come.

Jerry123

13th Dec 2017, 16:17

There is still a slot in Flybe's schedule on Wednesdays for an E175. I roughly calculated the block time as suitable for as far Bordeaux maybe Inverness or Hamburg or the Rhine area. Though they could use it for an extra rotation for say Dublin or Dusseldorf or Edinburgh maybe. Case of wait and see.

Letsflycwl

13th Dec 2017, 16:35

A regional French destination would be a good fit for BE and CWL.

I have always said something like BOD, NCE, MRS, LRH or EGC would be good.

Plus also ideal range for the Embraer aircraft too.

Would also like PRG or MJV bacon on the departure boards as were very popular with BMI baby.

Jerry123

13th Dec 2017, 18:23

It would be nice to have a new French destination so fingers crossed!

Also Cardiff to Naples is Skyscanner's Unserved Route of the Week with 20,000 annual searches.
Next Italian destination for Flybe maybe? Or would even TUI consider a weekly service? Other options from the Naples end would be Easyjet it's biggest carrier or Ryanair it's second biggest carrier.
http://www.anna.aero/2017/12/13/car...ail&utm_term=0_ecdbf41674-c9b9c4876a-86828221

Letsflycwl

13th Dec 2017, 18:45

NAP ? Would have never thought that as being towards the top of the list of destinations. Would assume TUI more than BE ? Or even better FR who seem to be happy just to plod on with TFS & FAO (which is great don’t get me wrong) but would have thought they’d have tested the water with another destination.

mathers_wales_uk

13th Dec 2017, 19:10

I'm going as Dusseldorf for the Wednesday flight

Callum Paterson

13th Dec 2017, 21:24

A once weekly flights to Duaseldorf? What on earth would be the point?!

Maybe Flybe can take note from Skyscanner and use the slot for a weekly hop down to Naples.

Jerry123

13th Dec 2017, 23:45

A once weekly flights to Duaseldorf? What on earth would be the point?!

Maybe Flybe can take note from Skyscanner and use the slot for a weekly hop down to Naples.

There is already a weekly flight to Dusseldorf on Saturdays. So if Dusseldorf filled the gap it would go up to 2 weekly. I also believe a German tour operator takes an allocation on the flight as well.

Jerry123

16th Dec 2017, 17:26

Superbreak have added more one off packages for Summer 18 and Winter 18 for Cardiff Airport.

At the moment this is what's on sale for Cardiff.

Montenegro, Croatia and Adriatic Coast. 3 night break departs 21st September and return the24th September.

Malta: Mdina and Gozo. 4 night stay depart 4th June and return 8th June.

Madeira: Funchal & Island experience. 7 nightstay departing 2nd November and returning 9th November.

http://www.superbreak.com/flight-ho...publishers&utm_campaign=AW85386&stop_mobi=yes

Letsflycwl

16th Dec 2017, 20:33

It be great to have MLA back as permanent destination, this is just a one off flight......Air Malta served the route for years and years and surprised no one else has picked up this route.

Jerry123

16th Dec 2017, 20:49

Yeah Malta is a strange one but it seems that neither Thomas Cook or TUI want to serve it and are quite happy for people to go over the bridge. It is a pity that Ryanair didn't launch it when they launched BFS and ABZ, they seem to be doing well on FAO and TFS so i've no doubt they'd make a success of MLA but again they are quite happy to see the passengers head over the bridge to fill their aircraft. Maybe one for Flybe in the future.

Letsflycwl

16th Dec 2017, 21:02

Yeah bit confused with Ryanair, I would have thought they would have added some more destinations as obviously both TFS & FAO are doing well for them.

Would a BE E95 have the range for MLA and would that fit with their CWL routes ? I imagine TUI and other tour operators would sell some seats on it if that happened

Jerry123

16th Dec 2017, 21:20

The E195 and E175 both have the range. Pretty sure they have the range for Greece as well but I can't see that happening. As for Flybe I'd say Malta would fit in to their routes.
As for Ryanair i can't figure them because with their network they could operate a few destinations into Cardiff that they wouldn't struggle to fill and make money on.

Letsflycwl

16th Dec 2017, 21:23

Well it’s just to see things are on the up for CWL, new airlines, new destinations and of course those new (2nd hand) airbridges......

Hopefully more to come over the next few months......would still like some French regional routes but that’s my wish list haha

Callum Paterson

16th Dec 2017, 21:56

Why are Ryanair's flights from Cardiff "obviously" doing well?

What's the source of this bold and certain claim?

Letsflycwl

16th Dec 2017, 22:29

Passenger loads and the fact that they are still “present” as they do not hang around if the passenger figures are not there !

There has been a marked increase in passenger figures to both TFS & FAO for 2017

Callum Paterson

16th Dec 2017, 22:38

Well of course there has been a marked increase in the number of passengers flying to TFS and FAO, there has been a marked increase in the number of flights to both destinations.

However, you do not know the yield being generated by bookings or the overall financial performance of these routes.

Perhaps the reason Ryanair has not further expanded from Cardiff is because these routes aren't making as much money as you "obviously" unfoundedly claim. Perhaps.

Letsflycwl

16th Dec 2017, 22:52

Well when you are responsible for boarding these flights and dispatching them then you sort of get a good idea on how the loads actually are.......so yes they are experiencing good pay loads and have done for several months.

Callum Paterson

16th Dec 2017, 23:02

Again, you have zero access to or knowledge of how these routes are performing.

If Ryanair was as much of a success from Cardiff as you unfoundly claim (as you admit) I'm sure they would have expanded by now. However, they haven't.

yeo valley

17th Dec 2017, 05:23

So correct in saying its not the pax numbers on any flight,its the yield that counts. This has happened at BRS and at many airports they serve. Some routes from BRS has been running just about full and they have binned the route. So if FR are happy with the 2 routes out of CWL then they would add routes. With the 2 routes out of CWL with good loads that tells me the yeild is not as good as they want it to be. We all know the loadings on each flight,but there is no way we shall know the yields.
Airlines operate routes to make money as that's the name of the game,not operate routes here there and every where to please airport supporters. It always put a smile on my face when arm chair supporters say this or that route will work,so they must know a lot more than the airlines know, so if they do work without operating the route then airlines would add routes every where.
You have to wonder why FR has not added CWL routes it must be yields are not as good as they should be.
Airlines are a business not a charity for arn chair CEOs

Jerry123

17th Dec 2017, 05:59

Why are Ryanair's flights from Cardiff "obviously" doing well?

What's the source of this bold and certain claim?

They haven't pulled them. From the figures I've seen the aircraft seem to be pretty full on most flights. If they weren't making money do you really think Ryanair would stick around at little old Cardiff?

Jerry123

17th Dec 2017, 06:19

Who said anything about charity? Ryaniar must be happy with the yields as they are continuing the flights and as these are non based flights those bases may not have the aircraft to operate extra flights or may feel that for the market the current flights are enough and that additional flights might then effect their yield.
As for Ryanair not adding new routes or not basing only Ryanair knows and maybe the airport knows the reason personally I'd love to ask MOL but I doubt he'd tell a non expert like me! They do seem to be concentrating on expanding in Germany at the moment so I'd suggest that is where their focus is and CWL is small fry compared to that.
In the end it is Ryaniars choice whether they believe CWL will make them money. Personally I think it would but again that is my personal opinion based on the evidence that I've seen and if you look at the historical numbers for what CWL used to sustain in the past that would also suggest more flights even if they were seasonal would be sustainable for airline like Ryanair.

Jerry123

17th Dec 2017, 06:26

Another factor as well is that there is a massive amount of leakage from CWLs catchment area to other airports and Ryanair will be one of the beneficiaries of that so they may be very cautious in that they don't want to effect their operations at other airports.

Harry Wayfarers

17th Dec 2017, 06:34

That's not strictly so ...

There is such a thing as flooding one's own market, RYR have quite a network of flights out of BHX and BRS, start offering the same or similar destinations out of CWL and they'd be taking their own passengers away from BHX and BRS thus other or all routes may fail, it could be that TFS and FAO are so loaded from these other airports they feel safe to offer a third option but not so with other routes that aren't so well loaded from BHX and BRS.

There's such a thing as walking before running, for years Ryanair ignored CWL, now they're there with a route or two that, so far so good, what with all their recent problems a simple way to test the water ... Have Ryanair been cancelling CWL flights in favour of more profitable routes because of their pilot shortage crisis?

Jerry123

17th Dec 2017, 06:51

The CWL routes have remained unaffected by the pilot shortage and are very rarely cancelled or even delayed from what I've seen.

Harry Wayfarers

17th Dec 2017, 07:46

Make's me smile that yeo valley mocks, what he calls, arm chair CEO's and whilst he may have a point "Oh let's go to Naples" or whatever by making the post that he did he has become an arm chair CEO himself.

As difficult as this may be for some to understand but behind every commercial decision there is a commercial department making that decision and normally for a very good reason!

SWBKCB

17th Dec 2017, 07:58

Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (4 Dec) released November traffic statistics as follows:
•Traffic grew 6% to 9.3m customers.
•Load factor rose 1% point to 96%

So, the average load factor across all routes in November 2017 was 96% - so looks like all flights are doing well. Based on these figures, bums on seats doesn't tell you a lot about whether a route is doing well or not, or whether a base will be expanding or contracting.

JobsaGoodun

17th Dec 2017, 08:54

The E195 and E175 both have the range. Pretty sure they have the range for Greece as well but I can't see that happening. As for Flybe I'd say Malta would fit in to their routes.

The aircraft might have the range according to the manufacturer, however fill it with passengers, luggage and enough fuel for a possible diversion away from MLA if required and you'll find such a significant payload limitation that it becomes a no-go. I think you'll find that all of Flybe's existing charter services to Greece from the U.K. are restricted from carrying a full passenger load.

caaardiff

17th Dec 2017, 11:00

You have to wonder why FR has not added CWL routes it must be yields are not as good as they should be.

Surely just because one or two routes do well doesn't mean another new route would?

TFS and FAO are big demand routes and very underserved from CWL. As Harry has said FR probably know there's sufficient Welsh passengers using these BRS services to support CWL flights. TFS and FAO are good routes to build ancillary revenue. Those type of passenger will buy a bag, will pay for golf clubs, will buy a drink or snack on board. Quite often the highly loaded routes that have faced the chop are city break or eastern European routes, where people want a cheap fare and don't buy the extras.

The only possible FR routes I can see duplicating BRS is ACE and maybe LPA and IBZ, both served by EZY and FR. EZY don't serve MLA so FR would potentially be diluting their own yields in BRS to MLA.

The bonus to these flights is that they aren't operated by CWL based aircraft and no associated base costs. This is why I can't see FR basing at CWL until they prove a few more routes can work.

Callum Paterson

17th Dec 2017, 11:16

caaardiff

17th Dec 2017, 11:28

IF it were to happen I would have thought something similar to BOH

Jerry123

17th Dec 2017, 12:15

I too fail to see Ryanair opening a base at Cardiff. They have a base very close by at Bristol and South Wales travellers appear happy to travel to BRS.

Further to that I cannot see the demand to support even just one based aircraft. Just where would they fy 14 to 21 weekly departures to?!

Malaga, Ibiza, PMI, Alicante, Malta, Gran Canaria, Dublin, Rome, Krakow, Prague, Girona, Murcia are just examples. Plenty of places they can fly to from CWL new and underserved. They operate a 1 aircraft base at Bournemouth so why at Cardiff to complement it's base at BRS and steal a few welsh Easyjet passengers.

Harry Wayfarers

17th Dec 2017, 12:22

Because to introduce such routes from CWL they may be poaching some 40% of their pax from BRS thus both BRS and CWL routes would fail.

Is this Rocket Science or what?

Jerry123

17th Dec 2017, 13:19

Not necessarily they could end up poaching a lot of Easyjets passengers. Having a base at Cardiff doesn't mean the base at Bristol gets damaged. It's not always CWL or BRS. They can complement each other. TCX and TUI especially TUI are examples of that.

SWBKCB

17th Dec 2017, 13:40

RYR operate out of CWL so have the details of what they're making on these flights.

Now, either they've not thought about operating more flights out CWL, or they have thought about it and decided against it.

Jerry123

17th Dec 2017, 13:50

Or are planning more routes for the future. It is possible they couldn't add anything new this year.

caaardiff

17th Dec 2017, 16:58

Jerry 6 of those routes are already operated from CWL. That would destroy yields for both carriers on those routes. If MJV and PRG would work from CWL then they would without a doubt already be operating from BRS.
Leave flybe to the city routes. Coax FR onto some sun routes where they have bases. Maybe even Norwegian as Vueling dont seem interested in new destinations.

Jerry123

18th Dec 2017, 07:27

caaardiff I know they are. If CWL is to get back to the 2 million passengers mark and then go above it, it will need an expansion of frequencies on many of those routes especially Alicante, Malaga and PMI. The only way that will happen is either by a massive expansion from Vueling (not likely) or by attracting a new carrier whether they are based or not. Whether it be Norwegian or Ryanair they will want to operate frequencies on those routes as they are the main earners at CWL and may well be considered under served like Faro and Tenerife were.

Harry Wayfarers

18th Dec 2017, 07:44

Jerry,

For years the only international business type routing CWL has had has been KLM, KLM have had the monopoly, I've used them myself because there was no other choice from CWL ... Well except that outbound I was ticketed with Air France travelling in a blue F70 to AMS. :)

I see many of you singing and dancing that Qatar have announced a CWL route from next year but has it occurred to any of you that Qatar are to take away the KLM monopoly to M. East and Asia and this might just impact upon KLM's loads and cause them to reduce their frequency of services or pull out of CWL altogether?

Similarly if a competitor, or competitors, spring up in competition to Vueling don't you think that may similarly pee Vueling off and cause them to reduce services or pull out of CWL altogether?

Why does CWL need an expansion of services, has there been a baby boom in S. Wales in recent years? I'm pretty sure that if the loads of Vueling and others were so great they would be increasing their services by themselves and not need prompting by airport enthusiasts.

Don't go shopping for jam if the bread and butter is likely to go walkabout!

Jerry123

18th Dec 2017, 10:36

Harry Wayfarers,
I too use KLM a lot to get to the US and i honestly don't think they will pull out or cut their frequencies because of Qatar. Their offerings at CWL are much more broader. People use them to fly to China, the USA, Canada, South America, Africa and all over the world. Also a lot people use them to fly to places in Europe from regional France, Eastern Europe, Italy , Germany and Norway are examples of destinations that i've heard people flying to using them. Qatar's focus is on attracting people flying to India, the Middle East, SE Asia and China using Heathrow to and from Wales and the South West and of course to attract the 90,000 people a year travelling between Wales and Australasia. Many of the adverts for Qatar for CWL feature Sydney quite prominently.

As for Vueling i agree if a competitor turned up and dumped 10 weekly flights on each of their routes then they'd likely run but if someone like Ryanair added 2 to 3 weekly flights on their routes then i don't see them going anywhere, the example of that is Faro Ryanair added 2 weekly flights and instead of cutting or pulling off Flybe have actually expanded from 4 weekly to 5 weekly flights. Vueling have slowly expanded their frequencies at CWL over the years. Whether they will continue to or actually can add more frequencies only time will tell.

Why does CWL need an expansion of services? Demand for flights from it's catchment area is high and will continue to grow as Wales gets wealthier and as tourism grows. If you look at the Flybe base it is generally doing quite well. They've provided the flights and people are using them. Roughly over 4 million people fly to and from the airports catchment area every year. 1.6 million of those use BRS, 1.3 million use CWL, 1 million use London airports and the rest use airports like BHX and MAN. The demand is there it's just not being served from South Wales at the moment and that is part of the airports challenge to get as many people flying for the holidays, weekend aways and business trips directly from Wales and not England, to boost the Welsh economy with better business links and provide tourists from all over the world direct or better access to Wales so they visit our beautiful country and spend their money here boosting the Welsh economy. To do that it needs airlines and routes and more frequencies on routes as well.

P.S the numbers I gave are from 2016 and from a progress report/presentation done by the Airport to the Senedd at the beginning of the year. Pretty sure it's online somewhere.

ATNotts

18th Dec 2017, 10:41

A case of "be careful what you wish for". However I'm sure that AF/KL will be doing an ongoing an analysis of what percentage of their CWL/AMS business connects onward to destinations served through Doha, but to retain the business and compete, I think they'd be more likely to retain the frequency but trip capacity should push come to shove

Harry Wayfarers

18th Dec 2017, 11:17

As for Vueling i agree if a competitor turned up and dumped 10 weekly flights on each of their routes then they'd likely run but if someone like Ryanair added 2 to 3 weekly flights on their routes then i don't see them going anywhere

Jerry ... Subtlety isn't RYR's strongest suit ... Just ask their pilots :)

I too use KLM a lot to get to the US and i honestly don't think they will pull out or cut their frequencies because of Qatar. Their offerings at CWL are much more broader. People use them to fly to China, the USA, Canada, South America, Africa and all over the world. Also a lot people use them to fly to places in Europe from regional France, Eastern Europe, Italy , Germany and Norway are examples of destinations that i've heard people flying to using them.

With a somewhat restriction on business type routes from BHX in the some four years that I utilised from BHX the likes of LH, SAS, KLM, AF and Swiss I do admit that the majority of my ultimate destinations were in Europe, Sweden, Latvia, Ukraine, Italy, Romania, Germany but such was the nature of my work, I did utilise Swiss one time round trip HKG and my KL/AF from CWL was outward to SIN and return from MNL.

The CWL KLM route, as I recall, started with a once or twice daily F27 combined with BRS, then CWL got it's own SF340's, then F27's and/or F50's, then F70's and up to three rotations daily, more recently some description of Embraer ... however many seats they may have, I mean KLM have dpne everything for that route to work for the CWL catchment area and whether or not Qatar impacts upon them by 5 or 10 or 15% Qatar shall impact upon them.

P.S the numbers I gave are from 2016 and from a progress report/presentation done by the Airport to the Senedd at the beginning of the year. Pretty sure it's online somewhere.

Can you go fetch me the salt cellar please!

Jerry123

18th Dec 2017, 12:59

When it comes to KLM and AMS it is essentially a Sky Team route and if you look at other airports in the UK they go up against not only the ME3 but other hub airlines and seem do fine a those airports. If you take Newcastle as an example they are not only up against Emirates daily 777 but the BA LHR shuttle and Aer Lingus and even there own partners Air France yet they regulary use 737 aircraft on most of the frequencies. The airport growing with people in Wales fly more from Cardiff then that can only benefit them in the long run.

caaardiff

18th Dec 2017, 13:55

I too use KLM a lot to get to the US and i honestly don't think they will pull out or cut their frequencies because of Qatar.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Jerry, you certainly can't knock your enthusiasm and passion for CWL. It's great to see such support. But I do feel there needs to be an air of caution against anything major happening at CWL. The market is slim. No matter how much you compare CWL to other Airports around the UK, CWL could well be in a sticky situation. BE growing it's city routes could affect KLM. QR will likely effect KLM. KLM could throw it's toys out of the pram and shift capacity over to BRS, where it knows Welsh passengers will fly from.
Look at how much publicity QR have had over the launch, no doubt that has got KLM's backs up. I noticed that a sudden KLM campaign started out of nowhere a few weeks after the QR launch.
Same with FR. FR are a business, they aren't a business that are known for making business friends and working in co-operation with other Airlines.

What CWL needs to do is make it profitable for the Airlines. If that means restricting growth to support current Airlines then so be it, provided those Airlines show some sign of growth. Look at the comment regarding BRS and Jet2, where they want to continue to support their current Airlines growth rather than create a blood bath.

Jerry123

18th Dec 2017, 14:14

I guess we will see in the future but I'd be very shocked and surprised if KLM left the airport over the arrival of Qatar and any future growth especially as KLM and Air France and partners are expanding their offerings from CWL with the new Jet Airways codeshare and expanded Air France codeshares on Flybe's CDG service.

Jerry123

18th Dec 2017, 14:43

Just seen an article on Wales Online and the first 2 destinations mentioned are Sydney and Amsterdam! :)
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/stunning-destinations-you-can-fly-14043109.amp?__twitter_impression=true

SWBKCB

18th Dec 2017, 14:46

Jerry123's example of NCL isn't a bad one - new airlines don't just cannibalize existing operators, but also stimulate the market.

Callum Paterson

18th Dec 2017, 22:14

Amongst other things Newcastle does not have a much bigger rival just 50 miles away from which it's immediate catchment are more than happy to use at the drop of a hat. Cardiff does.

CabinCrewe

18th Dec 2017, 22:30

With GLA and EDI the introduction of ME routes with EK/QR etc - pax numbers to AMS KEF and DUB transit hubs increased, so I wouldnt worry about losing those. Whether QR can fill a 787 is another story....

Harry Wayfarers

19th Dec 2017, 01:58

But KEF is merely Icelandair's hub for their route network to/from N. America and I don't believe CWL is served by Aer Lingus.

I guess we will see in the future but I'd be very shocked and surprised if KLM left the airport over the arrival of Qatar and any future growth especially as KLM and Air France and partners are expanding their offerings from CWL with the new Jet Airways codeshare and expanded Air France codeshares on Flybe's CDG service. Well Flybe codesharing with AF reduces the AF pax that may have codeshared on KL, when I travelled AF CWL/SIN I had no other choice than to route CWL/AMS/CDG/SIN.

KLM take their Asian market very seriously, until a year or so back they were the only carrier offering direct services between Europe and the Philippines, now there is another carrier but they're cr@p! ... And a third if IST is considered to be in Europe!

Mike Flynn

19th Dec 2017, 13:51

It depends how you do your measuring Harry.

AMS from Cardiff is not the quickest or indeed best route to the Philippines.

If you have done the trip to Asia many times over 20 years you will know the old flag carriers such as KLM are poor on service and high on price. If I was in Cardiff heading for Asia, as the old joke goes,I would not start from here.

Jerry123

19th Dec 2017, 13:56

Flybe have filled the gap in their schedule on Wednesdays with an afternoon flight to Jersey. Jersey will be 4 weekly for Summer 18.

yeo valley

19th Dec 2017, 15:43

the second tui flight long haul departed cwl today for montego bay. they will have a nice Christmas weather wise. the first long haul was to Barbados a few weeks ago now.

Harry Wayfarers

19th Dec 2017, 22:08

Jay Sata,

KLM can be hit or miss on service, I've had some good flights with them and some not so good, I still recall when they withdrew serving beer in European economy class, that flight I was actually ticketed with Ukraine International (who are very generous when it comes to serving beer) and I subsequently complained to UIA that if they are to codeshare then to please ensure that their codesharers offer a similar level of service as they themselves offer.

The time, from CWL, I was doing an open-jaw return, outward to SIN and return from MNL and it was some £200 cheaper if I booked the outward with AF and routed via CDG that on KL direct AMS/SIN ... You think KL are bad to Asia ... You ain't seen nothing, AF are even worse!

But in those days there was no other choice from CWL (that I could get to from my then home in 10 minutes on a bus), KLM can be pricey but the fare then was quite reasonable and wouldn't have made it worth my while to route from LHR or BHX or wherever.

When I finally emigrated six years ago I flew Cathay LHR/HKG/CEB, I love Cathay :)

Mike Flynn

20th Dec 2017, 02:10

I agree with you re Cathay Harry. I make a point of avoiding flag carriers such as Air France plus all the major US airlines.

To get from Rhoose to your home means you must have lived in Barry or Llantwit.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Dec 2017, 02:13

My house was 4 doors away from Tesco's in Barry, just a walk across the road and a bus stop to the airport.

Mike Flynn

20th Dec 2017, 02:27

I've had many a pint in the Highwayman after parking my aircraft near the old Cambrian hangar. I lived in Flemingston and learnt to fly at Rhoose. Small world :-)

Cardiff is a decent sized airport compared to Norwich and I am glad the Welsh Government bought it back.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Dec 2017, 02:44

My passion was/is map reading, navigation etc. and of a Sunday we would do a crawl around the country lanes of the Vale with an ordnance survey map of PH's in hand :)

Mike Flynn

20th Dec 2017, 03:13

You must have had a few in here Harry.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSjkBjMFj-Ank3A7vcdrS1vYhG7vHAk6aba_lX62a-CJONvV2S1CKDGjXd

I was a founder member of the Cardiff Wales Flying Club. We would fly down to Guernsey for the weekend and return Sunday evening followed by a few pints at the Blue.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Dec 2017, 03:16

I've cracked my bl00dy head on the ceilings in there a few times :)

runway30

20th Dec 2017, 10:10

.....only when the thatch isn't on fire.

Mike Flynn

20th Dec 2017, 11:02

I must say I am pleased the airport is back in public ownership.

Jerry123

23rd Dec 2017, 18:22

CAA stats for November 2017 are out.

The airport saw 77,830 passengers through the airport up 8.1% on 2016. The rolling year was 1,456,934 up 9.1% on 2016. Atm's were 1096 down 5.2% on 2016 with the rolling year 16,959 up 7.1% on 2016.

Top 5 destinations for November 2017

1. Amsterdam 12,129

2. Edinburgh 8423

3. Dublin 7708

4. Tenerife South 7498

5. Alicante 5836

Â

Top 5 destinations by percentage growth

1. Belfast City +58%

2. Jersey +55%

3. Berlin TXL +52%

4. Paris CDG +37%

5. Anglesey +36%

Jerry123

4th Jan 2018, 15:02

TUI have added a weekly Antalya for summer 2018 from 21st May on Mondays. The flight will be with a non based carrier like the Friday Dalaman.

Letsflycwl

4th Jan 2018, 16:26

This is rumoured to be with SunExpress with a B737-800 to/from both AYT & DLM

Jerry123

4th Jan 2018, 17:43

Be nice to see a new airline at CWL. Don't think SunExpress have served CWL before.

Letsflycwl

4th Jan 2018, 17:53

I think they’ve done one summer previously a few years back but agree it’s nice to have a new airline on the boards. Also good to see the Turkish market taking back off again, so many Turkish airlines have operated through CWL, notably Onur Air, Sunways, Pegasus, SAGA Airlines and Freebird, so welcome back SunExpress

Jerry123

5th Jan 2018, 20:35

Qatar Airways have vacancies for Airport services agent, senior airport services agent, Airport services supervisor, Airport Services Manager and Airport services Duty officer. All are for Cardiff Airport and on their website.

Harry Wayfarers

6th Jan 2018, 04:03

That's funny ... So they need a Airport Services Manager to oversee an Airport Services Supervisor to oversee an Airport Services Duty Officer to oversee a Senior Airport Services Agent to oversee an Airport Services Agent and presumably all of these shall be overseeing the handling agent.

Ever heard of the saying 'Too many chiefs and not enough Indians"? ... And for how many flights each week?

Jerry123

6th Jan 2018, 04:53

It looks like to me that they want their own staff to be what the customer sees as their point of contact rather for check in, dispatch and complaints rather than Swissport staff.

As for the positions it doesn't say how many in each but the staffing will have to be spread out over the week as the flights are daily. As for the daily tasks that these jobs require I'll leave that to the experts to say what they have to do.

Harry Wayfarers

6th Jan 2018, 05:11

It's apparent that money is no object, all they would need to have their own airport representation would be a couple of Duty Officers to cover seven days a week overseeing the handling agent and dealing face to face with passenger enquiries.

Check-in opens, what, three hours before and everything should be wrapped up by one hour after departure ... Wow, these staff are going to be working some seriously long hours!

Much easier and cost effective to provide the handling agent with some Qatar uniforms, the agent appoints their own dedicated Qatar check-in staff, then besides a couple of their own staff Qatar don't need to worry about hiring and firing etc.

But then that's too simple for the M. East!

Callum Paterson

6th Jan 2018, 09:01

Of course money is no object. If it was Qatar would not be flying from Cardiff.

Jerry123

6th Jan 2018, 09:15

So you just assuming that because it's Wales that Qatar can't operate profitable flights? Ever thought that they may know what they are doing? I wonder if they had chosen somewhere else say Belfast if people would be as sceptical.

Callum Paterson

6th Jan 2018, 10:36

Qatar chose Cardiff because its a capital. The airline frequently boasts about flying to more capital cities than any other airline. Cardiff ticks that box and they'll probably eventually add Belfast for the same reason. Nothing to do with sound business.

Jerry123

6th Jan 2018, 10:49

Yet their CEO says the route has to be profitable to be maintained. That sounds like sound business to me.

Centre cities

6th Jan 2018, 11:39

Profitability is no just seats sold but includes any incentives given to operate the route. I wonder what they are.

On the subject of seat sales Cardiff all through the summer is showing a return fare to Doha 250 pounds less that BHX and MAN and all but the early Heathrow flight.

That is a big difference.

Jerry123

6th Jan 2018, 11:44

Cardiff is a new route so will be priced to attract new passengers from airlines like Emirates and Etihad and people from the South West. Coincidentally the difference between the Business Class fares on CWL and BHX isn't much.

As for incentives all airports will offer airlines incentives especially if they are new airlines or new routes or important to the airport. I expect CWL and Qatar are no different.

Callum Paterson

6th Jan 2018, 12:41

Just look at Cardiff's route network and the destinations within Europe that it fails to sustain. And then look at the lack of airline that see any business case for flying to Cardiff. Yet Qatar see a case for a daily widebody to Doha?! Laughable really. But of course money is no object here.

Harry Wayfarers

6th Jan 2018, 12:53

Have they announced it is to be a widebody?

canberra97

6th Jan 2018, 13:05

Yes Harry Qatar announced it a few weeks ago and already discussed, daily B788.

Jerry123

6th Jan 2018, 13:18

The large Easyjet base at BRS and previous managerial incompetence is the reason for that. If you look at what the airport is doing with the growing Flybe base and routes, routes returning with TUI and TCX short and long haul. Vueling slowly growing and IB Express operating to the airport. Also Qatar gives CWL a product BRS doesn't have. The passenger numbers are growing as well. When the Welsh government took over in 2013 the yearly pax figure was 1,075,000 for 2017 it should be around 1.45 and for 2018 1.65. The terminal is being upgraded with departures expanded along with 2 new airbridges to be fitted as well. The airport is going in the right direction as is Wales as a country with our national identity getting stronger and Wales becoming more well known internationally and a more popular tourist destination. CWL as an airport and Wales as a country and Cardiff as a city are growing and Qatar will be part of that.

Jerry123

6th Jan 2018, 13:18

787 8 aircraft.

southside bobby

6th Jan 2018, 14:38

But there is a reason for the large easyJet base at BRS...

It was inherited of course from Go & when as part of their business plan back in the day Go were looking to establish a second base it was BRS on the list of potential candidates.

Unfortunately CWL was not...The rest is pretty much history.

MerchantVenturer

6th Jan 2018, 20:34

My wife and I visit Australia each year for VFR and usually use Emirates.

However, CWL is our nearest MEB3 airport and we were (still are hopefully) intending to look at it as a serious option in 2018. We visit 'Down Under' in November each year.

Inexplicably (to us anyway) Qatar is showing no web booking availability for CWL after 26 October. The other Qatar UK airports have seen their booking window extended daily (by one day) through November and December to the point where they are now bookable until the end of this year.

A poster on another forum suggested he had seen a Qatar reply to a similar query from someone else stating that for the moment CWL flights for November and December need to be booked offline, presumably by telephone or via a travel agent.

We usually use a well-known long-haul travel agency for our flights to Oz but I like to peruse airline websites first to get an idea of the various options including price and timings.

Is this sort of thing common with Qatar? I've never used them.

Jerry123

6th Jan 2018, 22:03

I'm actually wondering if it's to do with the rugby Autumn internationals. The fixtures aren't out yet and Qatar may be waiting to liase with tour operators to schedule packages for the flights.

Harry Wayfarers

6th Jan 2018, 23:04

When I travelled to/from Asia each trip I checked schedules and fares with the various airlines and I always found with Qatar that to get anything like a decent fare I was going to need to take some 18 hours in Doha in one or both directions whereas hotel and (at the time) visa would be required whilst reducing the length of my holiday by a day or so, PDQ Doha connections were available but the fares were way too high.

bravoromeosierra

7th Jan 2018, 09:23

Head off to Stockholm or Oslo to start your journey.. you can often get returns in J to Australia for £1400-£1600 on QR.

bycrewlgw

7th Jan 2018, 21:59

I’ve just left Oslo in Doha right now. We got J class for about 2k each plus a cheap flight from London. Well worth it. BA wanted about £5k each to syd.

Jerry123

11th Jan 2018, 00:36

Qatar Airways have released flights from November 2018 onwards.
Flights will be 5 weekly on Monday's, Tuesday's, Thursday's, Friday's and Sunday's.
Monday's and Friday's 07.30-12.10 DOH-CWL CWL-DOH 14.40-00.40
Tuesday's, Thursday's and Saturday's 01.05-05.45 DOH-CWL CWL-DOH 07.05-17.05

Cazza_fly

11th Jan 2018, 09:51

That's a very short scheduled turnaround time for a 787 on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

Harry Wayfarers

11th Jan 2018, 11:35

And too long a turnround on other days ... I guess something to do with slot times

PPRuNeUser0176

11th Jan 2018, 11:42

DUB have 1h15m to turnaround AM departures so 1h20m is very doable and remember the AM services tend to arrive ahead of schedule.

Afternoon is long like at DUB which usually departs up to 20 min ahead of schedule. Depending how early the AM arrives it also goes 10-15 early some days.

inOban

11th Jan 2018, 15:39

Same at EDI. Early arrival is allowed only one hour plus to turn round. Lunchtime is allowed two and a half.

Plane.Silly

12th Jan 2018, 07:28

Whigh begs the question, why not change the arrival time to reflect this?

IF the flight is always early, it'll keep confusing ATC, ground services and people picking the pax up so why not make it permanent.

I suppose it does make the airline look good, saying "our flights are always on time or early", or they're tring to cover themselves on the odd chance they're delayed around 3/4 hoursto wriggle out of EU261

Harry Wayfarers

12th Jan 2018, 08:15

The aircraft probably aren't sitting around in DOH for hours on end just to operate to CWL & EDI, they're probably inbound from someplace else and on a standard turnround.

But hub & spoke timings might have something to do with it, no point departing DOH, let's say, an hour earlier if it can't collect the inbound to DOH connecting passengers.

And some airports have night curfews, I don't think CWL does but how about EDI?

inOban

12th Jan 2018, 08:43

EDI operates 24/7

Jerry123

12th Jan 2018, 14:10

The first Iceland flight with Superbreak flown by Enter Air departed today and Cardiff Airport has put up a few photos on their twitter account. Looks like a decent load on the flight as the gate area looks full.
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/951732884657885184
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/951734305566461952
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/951741089060392960
https://twitter.com/FlySmartJets/status/951800784882225153
https://twitter.com/SuperBreak/status/951820749320458240

canberra97

12th Jan 2018, 15:40

Are there any plans to revamp the gate areas in preparation for when Qatar start operations and any news on the two 'new' airbridges and when they are to be installed?

Jerry123

12th Jan 2018, 17:00

The departures area is being revamped and expanded in time for May. I don't believe the east pier is being revamped and i don't know exactly when the airbridges will be installed but i have heard that the areas around stand 7 and 9 have been cordoned off.

canberra97

12th Jan 2018, 17:31

Cheers for that update Jerry it's appreciated maybe you could keep up us all update as far as those developments are proceeding.

Jerry123

13th Jan 2018, 09:39

This article gives an overview of the airport upgrades.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/cardiff-airport-spend-millions-upgrading-13744144.amp

Jerry123

13th Jan 2018, 16:54

https://www.cardiff-airport.com/news/2018/01/12/super-break-takes-off-from-cardiff-airport-to-iceland-for-first-time/

Jerry123

14th Jan 2018, 06:05

Just seen a post elsewhere saying that works to remove the airbridge on stand 7, which is the main wide body stand, will begin next week.

canberra97

14th Jan 2018, 07:05

Thanks for the links and updates Jerry although I've actually seen those images before the airport will have been transformed so much when it is completed and with the new airbridges but I was hoping that some extension to the frontage of the terminal was planned as envisaged a few years ago by a two story glass wall.

Jerry123

14th Jan 2018, 09:19

I don't think they'll do much to the outside of the terminal building. They have a consultancy firm called Arup apparently doing a new masterplan which should be out in April i believe and a new terminal has been mentioned in the press. Hopefully we'll find out in April what the long term plans are for the terminal building are.

Jerry123

14th Jan 2018, 11:48

Apparently Smartlynx will be operating an A320 for Thomas Cook for the summer.

canberra97

14th Jan 2018, 12:15

Jerry

I think the terminal is actually ok but a few years ago an extension to the terminal frontage was envisaged and there are images online where the front of terminal would be extended creating a larger depth to the check in area with a more open area created by the two floor extension and glass wall similar to that of LGW North Terminal where the new terminal frontage was added creating a more airy feel before you enter the actual check in area making the ground floor area larger without having to to make any expensive rebuilding and with a new forecourt I think that the current terminal could be transformed without the cost of having to build an entirely new one.

Jerry123

15th Jan 2018, 07:08

Yeah the photos of that look pretty good. It's a shame it didn't go ahead.
With the current terminal it depends on what the Welsh governments vision is. It is entirely possible that the current one could be upgraded through revamps of the boarding piers especially the western one and by expanding the check in and arrival areas and by even adding an extension on as there is plenty room between the terminal and BAMC for that.
My personal opinion is that in the long term the Welsh government will look at a new terminal but to do that they'll need long term investors as politically I don't think they could get away with such a large outlay of money.

Mike Flynn

19th Jan 2018, 21:17

Speaking as someone who was once a player at EGFF (in the 1980's as both a GA aircraft operator and avgas fuel supplier) I still think the airport is limited by its location.

Rhoose is difficult to reach being on the wrong side of the city.

In retrospect Cardiff and Bristol traffic should have moved to Filton which has better road links.

Both airports are in the wrong place to expand.

Jerry123

20th Jan 2018, 05:01

A Severnside airport has been muted before but never got off the ground. In the end it would be unacceptable for Wales as a country to close it's busiest airport down and move it to England and Bristol would've never been closed down either. Both Cardiff and Bristol aren't in the best of places but Bristol has shown that doesn't prevent it from being successful. Provide airlines and destinations that people want to fly to at the right prices and people will use the airport. With Cardiffs increasing passenger numbers that is being proved.

Mike Flynn

20th Jan 2018, 05:30

Things are certainly better at Cardiff now it is back in public ownership Jerry. However its location is the big stumbling block.

I reckon it has reached its optimum. It will never attract passengers from upstream of the bridges because of Birmingham.

I am old enough to remember the Wardair 747 trans atlantic flights of the mid eighties being touted as the start of many operators on that route. It never happened.

SWBKCB

20th Jan 2018, 05:40

Apart from the "unacceptable to Wales" bit (really? :rolleyes, Jerry is right - we are where we are and need to accept that. BRS is unrecognizable from what it was and (like LTN) shows that if you deliver what the market wants, that largely overcomes a constrained site and less than ideal location.

Wardair seems a strange example - they had an extensive network from many UK regional airports which doesn't exist now, so not just CWL.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Jan 2018, 06:08

It doesn't matter which side of the Severn Crossing it is on, now that they are supposedly doing away with the tolls, but an airport pretty close to either side would do pretty well what with M4, M5 and rail connections.

Alas the subject matter around these parts always seems to turn to a Wales vs England thing, think about Basle and Mulhouse as an example, if the Swiss and the French can share that airport isn't there hope for a Wales/England shared airport yet?

Jerry123

20th Jan 2018, 06:16

Wales is a country the last time I checked so it would be unacceptable for it too lose it's busiest airport. The reason the Welsh government bought it was too secure it's future.

Jerry123

20th Jan 2018, 06:32

But Basel isn't Switzerland's or France's only proper airport. For Wales Cardiff is.
Any shared airport would have to be in Wales which I don't think would be acceptable then to the West country. In the end both sides just have to get the best out of the airports they have.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Jan 2018, 06:33

Wales is a country the last time I checked so it would be unacceptable for it too lose it's busiest airport

Precisely how many busy airports does Wales have?

caaardiff

20th Jan 2018, 16:46

With the right carrier, offering the right schedule and prices, people from the Southwest will find CWL an attractive option. Maybe not the preferred option every time, but if the price is right at the time.
There's talk again of improved road links from the M4. 5 mile lane is apparently getting upgraded, although I've not seen the plans for that.
Let not forget the large amount of leakage to other Airports from the Welsh catchment. For South Wales originating passengers CWL is only 20 mins off the M4 and most people wouldn't chose not to book from CWL just because of the links.
No-one knows what the likes of QR will do to inbound tourism but transport links will need to be looked at soon. The rail link could do with being improved, maybe Arriva could look at extending the Merthyr-Bridgend service to Swansea at least. A bus service to the West is also required.
CWL's growth is nowhere near the likes of BRS and other Airports, but it has a lot to prove and a long way to go to rebuild confidence of travellers and Airlines.

Harry Wayfarers

20th Jan 2018, 19:41

With the right carrier, offering the right schedule and prices, people from the Southwest will find CWL an attractive option. Maybe not the preferred option every time, but if the price is right at the time.

But you can't change geography ... As an example expecting somebody who lives in Taunton to take a flight from CWL might be comparable to expecting somebody who lives in Ayr to take a flight from CAL.

Callum Paterson

21st Jan 2018, 13:56

And the right carries with the right routes and the right schedule is already in the market. At Bristol.

caaardiff

21st Jan 2018, 14:18

But you can't change geography ... As an example expecting somebody who lives in Taunton to take a flight from CWL might be comparable to expecting somebody who lives in Ayr to take a flight from CAL.

Not exactly sure what that means. Where's CAL? CWL is much closer to Taunton than BHX/LHR/LGW. Not every person from the Southwest flies from Bristol.

And the right carries with the right routes and the right schedule is already in the market. At Bristol.
They are indeed, currently, only specific short haul and charter long haul markets. But they aren't the only carriers around. Look at how Vueling has filled the gap.
QR is prime example of a market filler that isn't in Bristol.
There are other carriers around that would attract people from using other Airports (Not just BRS)

canberra97

21st Jan 2018, 14:32

Just to back you up

Taunton to Cardiff Airport 90 miles

Birmingham to Cardiff Airport 121 miles

I'm glad you asked the question regarding CAL!

Callum Paterson

21st Jan 2018, 14:47

Do you not heve Google in Wales? Presuming not, CAL is Campbeltown. It's a similar distance from Ayr (which is on PIKs doorstep) to both GLA and CAL. Despite this I doubt many, if anyone at all from Ayr uses CAL. Hence geography not being the only factor.

Foget distance in miles. It's somewhat irrelevant. Distance in terms of journey time is far more important.

A question to the Cardiff fans. What is your expectation for Cardiff in terms of passenger numbers? Do you see CWL as a 500k airport? 1 million? 2 million pax? More? Genuine question. Thanks.

inOban

21st Jan 2018, 16:11

Someone was measuring distances as the crow flies. By road it's 166 miles from CAL to PIK, over 3 1/2 hours. 37 miles from PIK to GLA, 45 min.

caaardiff

21st Jan 2018, 17:38

Taunton - BRS - 36 miles - 50 mins
Taunton - CWL - 91miles - 1hr40
Taunton - BHX - 135miles - 2hr10
Taunton - LHR - 136miles - 2hr30 / or 153 mile - 2hr30 using M4
Taunton - LGW - 160miles - 2hr47

Ayr - CAL - 170 miles - 3hr43

I still don't see the relevance of using Ayr and CAL as the geography and offerings from the Airport are completely different, and the journey time is double that of Taunton to CWL. My point is that if people from Southwest and South Wales are willing to drive 2 hours plus to BHX or London, why wouldn't people from the Southwest take the under 2 hour option and go to CWL..... if the price is right.

Just using QR are an example.
CWL-DOH 17 Jul returning 24 Jul - £580.07
BHX-DOH £690.99
LHR-DOH £572.31

Surely CWL being the closest and only £8 more expensive than the cheapest fare of the three would be a no brainer.

This isn't about blowing smoke up CWL's rear. It's about being realistic. CWL will likely to struggle to top 2m by 2020, but it's on the up. It will never be BRS, but it's making progress.
QR surprised everyone and no doubt there's more to it for Wales rather than just CWL behind the deal, but it could well be a catalyst for growth.
CWL is accessible if the right offering is there. It's not going to bring ground breaking figures through the doors, but people will travel to where the price is right. I've worked in the industry long enough to see that.

Jerry123

21st Jan 2018, 20:49

A question to the Cardiff fans. What is your expectation for Cardiff in terms of passenger numbers? Do you see CWL as a 500k airport? 1 million? 2 million pax? More? Genuine question. Thanks.

If the airport keeps growing as it is, it should be about at the 1.8 million passenger mark in 2020. I personally would consider that between the 2.5 million to 3 million passenger mark in the very long term as achievable and would count that as very successful.

Harry Wayfarers

21st Jan 2018, 20:50

Just using QR are an example.
CWL-DOH 17 Jul returning 24 Jul - £580.07
BHX-DOH £690.99
LHR-DOH £572.31

I used Ayr to CAL merely as an example of going up, past other airport option(s), and coming back down again, never mind precise distances it was a case of looking at the map and saying "%&£$ that"!

There is a mentality amongst the travelling public that between two countries, let's say UK and Thailand, their only flight options would be BA and a Thai airline, when I lived in the midlands the amount of idiots that would drive past such an airport as BHX en-route to LHR for their believed only flight options!

But ultimate destination DOH is not a good price comparison example as DOH is not that many people's ultimate destination nor is it Qatar's core business, for those dates I just checked and one can fly LON/BKK/LON via DXB for £500 ... less than it costs to fly CWL/DOH/CWL!

caaardiff

21st Jan 2018, 21:04

There is a mentality amongst the travelling public that between two countries, let's say UK and Thailand, their only flight options would be BA and a Thai airline, when I lived in the midlands the amount of idiots that would drive past such an airport as BHX en-route to LHR for their believed only flight options!

Absolutely agree. The general public are completely unaware when it comes to flying. That's where EZY and FR do incredibly well as people seem to default to them.

But ultimate destination DOH is not a good price comparison example as DOH is not that many people's ultimate destination nor is it Qatar's core business, for those dates I just checked and one can fly LON/BKK/LON via DXB for £500 ... less than it costs to fly CWL/DOH/CWL!

CWL-BKK via DOH is £455.47 :ok:

stalling attitude

21st Jan 2018, 21:17

I've just looked at Singapore and for 3 of us to fly on the dates I have off it is £1200 cheaper to go from London as opposed to Cardiff. Guess where I'll be flying from.

Jerry123

21st Jan 2018, 21:18

I saw a post elsewhere saying that the departures lounge expansion has started with the area by Gate 1 and where the games machine were, all closed up with Costa signage up as well and that FCO seems to be doing well for the dead of winter with a passenger load of 70 to 80 on yesterday.

Jerry123

21st Jan 2018, 21:23

I've just looked at Singapore and for 3 of us to fly on the dates I have off it is £1200 cheaper to go from London as opposed to Cardiff. Guess where I'll be flying from.
Guessing not Cardiff? What airlines did you look at? Qatar? KLM? Interesting as Qatar just had a sale but i've no doubt there is a lot of capacity on LHR-SIN. There will still be a lot of leakage to London but with Qatar starting the leakage will be less than before, and hopefully in the future the airport will attract more airlines and routes to lessen the leakage some more.

stalling attitude

21st Jan 2018, 21:43

I was looking at Qatar. Shame as I'd rather use the new route from my local airport.

Harry Wayfarers

21st Jan 2018, 23:11

CWL-BKK via DOH is £455.47 :ok:

Same old problem with Qatar, a 7.75 hour stopover in DOH on the return journey for anything like a reasonable fare

caaardiff

22nd Jan 2018, 06:20

We can sit here pricing up flight comparisons all day long. The same could be said if you compared flights from different Scottish or Irish Airports. The point trying to get through is CWL IS starting to be competitive with better value from FR, BE, VY and QR. Sometimes it'll work for some, sometimes it wont.
Many people have flown into 2nd rate airports for FR for years and now DY in the US because of price. Many flyers are price driven and won't worry about other factors.

Harry Wayfarers

22nd Jan 2018, 07:19

A previous poster suggested a catchment area of south-west England, I previously used Taunton as an example, if I lived in Taunton and wanted to travel to/from BKK do you reckon that I would fly from CWL to occupy 4.75 hours in DOH on the outward and 7.75 hours in DOH on the return when for the sake of an extra hour or whatever in the car I could choose from an abundance of services from LHR probably achieving 2 hours or similar connections en-route if not direct services?

Jerry123

24th Jan 2018, 07:14

1.46 million passengers and 9% growth for 2017.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/busine...2100#ICID=Android_WalesOnlineNewsApp_AppShare

ensiferum23

24th Jan 2018, 09:29

QR are starting off with too many flights, they should really try with 3 flights a week and go from there. That said I'd be surprised if they were still at CWL by this time next year.
I try to be optimistic but not many people will consider CWL even from South Wales. I haven't seen any advertisements about Qatar flying from CWL. Maybe there are some in Cardiff but not everyone live there!

Anyhoo KLM charge too much on flights from Cardiff next month I'm going to Vancouver and returning from San Francisco. Flights with KLM(&friends) but there were 2 connecting flights each way for £444.
Flights from Heathrow with other airlines would cost £390 with 1 connecting flight each way.
So which one do you think I chose?

Inverness of course! Flying with BA INV-LHR-YVR-SFO-LHR cost me £238. Including getting to Inverness and cost of hotel for one night cost me a total cost is £295. So happy days;)

Jerry123

24th Jan 2018, 10:54

As for Qatar it has to be at least 5 weekly to attract the business passengers and i highly doubt they'll go to all the effort just to scrap it after 8 months! Personally I think the route will do fine and I laugh when people complain about CWL not having routes but then when they get them complain it won't work!
There has been plenty of advertising of the route on all media Wales Online seem to do an article including it every week! And I've seen advertising at Temple meads and Cardiff Central. Also Qatar is advertising Cardiff on the front of their web page right now.

I fly will KLM a lot and always find them cheaper and easier than Heathrow and I'm not the only one.

Enjoy Inverness i hear it's a lovely place and hopefully one day Flybe might operate the route from CWL.