Cardiff-2

[PDXCWL45]

the article also states that BE have released their full schedule. The BE website seems to suggest otherwise unless TXL / DUS etc are cut next year
Looking at their schedule there are still gaps on Wednesdays and Sundays for Berlin or a similar timed flight. On Saturday for a Dusseldorf or similar timed flight and Friday for an extra Dublin flight. The schedule is only onsale up until early September so there should be another release. If Berlin and Dusseldorf get dropped then I'd have thought that theyd be replaced either by extra frequencies on some current routes or by a new route.

[Letsflycwl]

DUS & GCI always seem to be late releases over the last 2 years and tend to be announced after the initial batch of routes.

Any more idea on this PMI rumour for BE that’s circulating? Would this fill the missing TXL flights and would it be PMI for summer and TXL for winter?

[PDXCWL45]

DUS & GCI always seem to be late releases over the last 2 years and tend to be announced after the initial batch of routes.

Any more idea on this PMI rumour for BE that’s circulating? Would this fill the missing TXL flights and would it be PMI for summer and TXL for winter?
Only thing with PMI is on the wiki post it says starts on 4th April which is a Thursday but the wiki post could be wrong! PMI would be a solid route for them in the summer.

[runway30]

Bases For Jet2.com Pilot Jobs (including restrictions for recent pilot school graduates)last updateNEW bases to be announced Q1 2019 BRS, CWL (permanent) BCN (summer only)
(click to look-up airport codes (http://www.world-airport-codes.com/))29/Oct/18

[yeo valley]

Bases For Jet2.com Pilot Jobs (including restrictions for recent pilot school graduates)last updateNEW bases to be announced Q1 2019 BRS, CWL (permanent) BCN (summer only)
(click to look-up airport codes (http://www.world-airport-codes.com/))29/Oct/18

Jet 2 could be looking for pilots for BHX

[PDXCWL45]

Bases For Jet2.com Pilot Jobs (including restrictions for recent pilot school graduates)last updateNEW bases to be announced Q1 2019 BRS, CWL (permanent) BCN (summer only)
(click to look-up airport codes (http://www.world-airport-codes.com/))29/Oct/18 ​​​​​​
That'll be interesting to see if it happens!

[runway30]

Sorry to set a hare running but no supporting evidence so might be someone’s fantasy.

[PDXCWL45]

Sorry to set a hare running but no supporting evidence so might be someone’s fantasy.
Where is the info from?

[stewyb]

BRS AND CWL, can’t see it!

[PDXCWL45]

BRS AND CWL, can’t see it!
Why not? TUI and Thomas Cook both base at Cardiff and Bristol. It doesn't need to be one or the other.

[runway30]

Where is the info from?

It’s pilotjobsnetwork.com but this site is a wiki so anyone with an over developed imagination can post on it.

[RedDragonFlyer]

It's a wiki that anyone can edit. I can't see them opening a base for summer 19 as they've already released some of their winter 2019/20 schedule. Plus, they are already growing at a fair rate at their other bases.


Does anyone have the figures for the Qatar route in September? The figures for the previous month have come out before the end of the following month for the last few months.

[bycrewlgw]

Can’t see it either. Would be a great addition but as mentioned summer 19 is already announced so can’t see them launching in Q119 for a summer programme. Could be wrong though.

With regards to BRS and CWL (if true) then a dual base could work. Other airlines operate this set up and suppose the cut down on base costs.

Also nothing on the Jet2 website for recruitment so very much doubt they’d announce on pilot jobs network before their own!

[SWBKCB]

Can’t see it either. Would be a great addition but as mentioned summer 19 is already announced so can’t see them launching in Q119 for a summer programme. Could be wrong though.

Whether it's true or not, what it actually says on PPJN is that the new bases will be announced in Q1/19 not that flights will start (which would also explain why there is nothing on the Jet2 website).

[bycrewlgw]

Whether it's true or not, what it actually says on PPJN is that the new bases will be announced in Q1/19 not that flights will start (which would also explain why there is nothing on the Jet2 website).

sorry I meant the careers website not the booking engine!

[caaardiff]

Would they announce a summer 2020 launch in Q1 2019? Maybe to get ahead of other bookings?
I really can't see the logic behind a CWL and BRS base. It would mean extra costs for crew facilities and other overheads. TCX and TUIs bases are historical consolidations of other Airlines/Tour Operators going back many years but id say the biggest consolidation being MYT/TCX and FCA/TOM into just 2 Tour Operator/Airlines. IF it were to happen it would be one or the other. Both serving the same markets. I think the decider would be the deal CWL could give them over BRS and space available, given that we all know BRS is the stronger market.
Personally I'm not holding out for an announcement as it's been talked to death over recent years and the source isn't reliable. IF it happens, it happens.

[runway30]

What we do know is that Cardiff have tried to seduce Jet2 for years but Jet2 don’t want to come to the party..............

[PDXCWL45]

What we do know is that Cardiff have tried to seduce Jet2 for years but Jet2 don’t want to come to the party..............
Have they? Maybe one day Jet2 will come to the party!

[sixchannel]

Have they? Maybe one day Jet2 will come to the party!
Well if they do, they'd better not bring any of that dreadful Prosecco they served on our last Jet2 flight. It was awful!

[VickersVicount]

Well if they do, they'd better not bring any of that dreadful Prosecco they served on our last Jet2 flight. It was awful!
Were you expecting Bollinger on a quasi charter low cost cheap seat?

[sixchannel]

Were you expecting Bollinger on a quasi charter low cost cheap seat?
Oh dear, it was meant as a bit of Fun -" Bringing Prosecco to a 'Party' "?! Oh well.
No, not expecting Bolly but did the Prosecco have to be so 'cheap' - it certainly wasn't pricewise.

[shamrock7seal]

It's a wiki that anyone can edit. I can't see them opening a base for summer 19 as they've already released some of their winter 2019/20 schedule. Plus, they are already growing at a fair rate at their other bases.


Does anyone have the figures for the Qatar route in September? The figures for the previous month have come out before the end of the following month for the last few months.

8897 pax carried in Sept on this route... seems to have come down again. Anyone know what load factor that would be?

[bycrewlgw]

8897 pax carried in Sept on this route... seems to have come down again. Anyone know what load factor that would be?

58% load factor

[FFHKG]

QR seem to be having some low LF's at the moment, A friend flew HCM to DOH and DOH from MAD with them recently and flight was less than half full in Y on both sectors giving them a full row to spread across.

[LGS6753]

Miles Morgan Travel in Gloucestershire are advertising various tours using Qatar from Cardiff. First time I've noticed that.

[Letsflycwl]

What’s with the Titan Airways RUH-MAD-CWL flight on 03/11/2018 ?

What is this flight connected with ?

[Musket90]

Maybe it's to do with the rugby international. I think the aircraft is B757 G-POWH

[caaardiff]

Maybe it's to do with the rugby international. I think the aircraft is B757 G-POWH

More likely the WWE wrestling match. There's an event in Madrid and Cardiff tomorrow.

[Letsflycwl]

It’s all over the news that the Leicester Football Team will be flying to BKK after their game in Cardiff today for the funeral of their late owner.....

Does anyone know if this is true and if so what airline/aircraft ?

[PDXCWL45]

It’s all over the news that the Leicester Football Team will be flying to BKK after their game in Cardiff today for the funeral of their late owner.....

Does anyone know if this is true and if so what airline/aircraft ?
Idk the airline but apparently it'll be an A320 going via Dubai.

[Letsflycwl]

Idk the airline but apparently it'll be an A320 going via Dubai.

Never heard of LDK ? Or IDK ? Who are they ?

[PDXCWL45]

Never heard of LDK ? Or IDK ? Who are they ?
Sorry Idk is text speak for i don't know

[Letsflycwl]

Sorry Idk is text speak for i don't know

Ha no worries, I guess we will see what ever airline it is soon as I’d imagine it would need to position in pretty soon to operate that long route.......

Just seen it’s operating under White Airways, A319 OPO-CWL-DXB-BKK

[PDXCWL45]

CAA Stats September 2018
178,482 passengers used the airport in September up 7.2%. The rolling year was 1,560,493 up 7.9% on 2017. Atms were 1699 up 2.3%.
Top 10 routes September 2018
1. Palma de Mallorca 17,578
2. Amsterdam 12,093
3. Alicante 10,538
4. Malaga 10,197
6. Dublin 8954
7. Faro 8935
8. Doha 8897
9. Edinburgh 8334
10. Tenerife South 7477
CAA Stats September 2018
Domestic
Aberdeen 720 -11%
Anglesey 1163 -5%
Belfast City TBA
Durham Tees Valley 71
Edinburgh 8334
Glasgow 2118 -11%
Guernsey 72 -87%
Jersey 2100 +12%
Manchester 151
Newcastle 1163 -13%
European and International
Larnaca 3403 +21%
Paphos 1439 -2%
Aarhus 111
Paris CDG 7296 +35%
Berlin TXL 1233 -29%
Dusseldorf 531 +9%
Munich 1209 -44%
Corfu 1594 -14%
Heraklion 1473 -2%
Keffalinia 1105 -12%
Kos 1680 -1%
Rhodes 2798
Zakinthos 4298 +10%
Cork 1275 +20%
Dublin 8954 +22%
Milan MXP 2247 -22%
Parma 82
Rome FCO 1714 -8%
Venice 1143 +999%
Verona 1425 -15%
Amsterdam 12,093 +2%
Faro 8935 +8%
Alicante 10,538
Barcelona 3545 -13%
Ibiza 6189 +3%
Madrid 1049 -46%
Mahon 2640 -44%
Malaga 10,197 +5%
Palma de Mallorca 17,578 -11%
Reus 3049 +5%
Arrecife 4487 +5%
Las Palmas 1855 -2%
Tenerife South 7477 -2%
Antalya 2790
Dalaman 7076 +68%
Burgas 4216 +11%
Wroclaw 54
Doha 8897

[sixchannel]

I love numbers.
MAN - 151
MME - 71
They have to be some kind of one-offs, dont they, or were/are they failed routes?
Just asking.

[PDXCWL45]

I love numbers.
MAN - 151
MME - 71
They have to be some kind of one-offs, dont they, or were/are they failed routes?
Just asking.
Charters. CWL sees a fair bit of sport team charters not too mention the odd diversion so odd ones like that will pop up in the stats.

[sixchannel]

Charters. CWL sees a fair bit of sport team charters not too mention the odd diversion so odd ones like that will pop up in the stats.
Many thanks. I get it. So theyre werent necessarily all scheduled services.
That probably also explains the low Parma number.

[PDXCWL45]

Many thanks. I get it. So theyre werent necessarily all scheduled services.
That probably also explains the low Parma number.
Parma was Cardiff Blues going to play Zebre in the Pro14.

[HH6702]

TUI summer 2020 goes on sale this Thursday so expect if Jet2 is to base expect some news soon about it

[PDXCWL45]

TUI Winter 2019
Tenerife will be 3 weekly with 1 away based flight
Malaga 1 weekly but 2 weekly in April with an away based flight.
Gran Canaria will be 1 weekly
Alicante will be 2 weekly
Hurghada will be 1 weekly
Paphos will be 1 weekly except January and February
Lanzarote will be 2 weekly
So 11 weekly flights in November, December and March, 10 weekly in January and February and 12 weekly in April.
5 long haul flights to the Caribbean from TUI between December and April.

[PDXCWL45]

TUI summer 2020 and it does look a carbon copy of 2019 which is actually good as the 3rd based is staying along with the new routes and extra frequencies on other routes.
With no W pattern to BOH it'll be interesting to see if they either expand a route like Dalaman or Antalya or introduce a new route.
A new route would be nice!

[PDXCWL45]

Just to give some context to the effect the loss of Flybe from CWL would have. As well as 3 based aircraft and the jobs they create Flybe carried roughly 480,000 passengers in and out of Cardiff in 2017.

[sixchannel]

Just to give some context to the effect the loss of Flybe from CWL would have. As well as 3 based aircraft and the jobs they create Flybe carried roughly 480,000 passengers in and out of Cardiff in 2017.
Maybe Stobart Air will put in a Bid - again.

[ATNotts]

Just to give some context to the effect the loss of Flybe from CWL would have. As well as 3 based aircraft and the jobs they create Flybe carried roughly 480,000 passengers in and out of Cardiff in 2017.

Fortunately they haven't gone yet, hopefully they won't, but whatever, I wouldn't be expecting too much expansion at CWL (anywhere for that matter!). Any new owner will want a quick change in fortunes and that will undoubtedly result in some fairly savage cuts to marginal, non core routes.

Hopefully a new owner will be found, since, as with other hot issues at the moment, and to slightly paraphrase "any deal is better than a bad deal".

[PDXCWL45]

Fortunately they haven't gone yet, hopefully they won't, but whatever, I wouldn't be expecting too much expansion at CWL (anywhere for that matter!). Any new owner will want a quick change in fortunes and that will undoubtedly result in some fairly savage cuts to marginal, non core routes.

Hopefully a new owner will be found, since, as with other hot issues at the moment, and to slightly paraphrase "any deal is better than a bad deal".
I know fingers crossed that a new owner or investor is found especially one with deep pockets!

[bycrewlgw]

I know fingers crossed that a new owner or investor is found especially one with deep pockets!

hopefully it will be rescued and in the right hands probably could be a good little airline. If they were to fold (hopefully not) who would pick up the slack at Cardiff? FR?

[PDXCWL45]

hopefully it will be rescued and in the right hands probably could be a good little airline. If they were to fold (hopefully not) who would pick up the slack at Cardiff? FR?
I'd have thought that FR would be the first ones CWL calls. Their main worry would be getting capacity back onto Dublin Belfast Edinburgh and Paris Flybe's big 4 routes from Cardiff. With Paris it's possible Air France would be interested.
Apart from Dublin would FR be interested in Belfast and Edinburgh and no doubt opening a base as I'd imagine that is what the airport would want and of course would Ryanair want to take on the 4 Italian routes as well which no doubt the airport would be keen to keep. If they were interested i don't see them operating at Flybe's frequency on EDI DUB and BHD.

[PDXCWL45]

CAA Stats October 2018
140,086 passengers used the airport in October up 4.3% on 2017. The rolling year was 1,566,230 passengers up 7.9% on 2017.
Atms were 1547 up 1.9%.
Top 10 routes October 2018
1. Amsterdam 12,580
2. Tenerife South 10,119
3. Alicante 9315
4. Dublin 9170
5. Malaga 8945
6. Edinburgh 8852
7. Palma de Mallorca 8843
8. Paris CDG 6691
9. Faro 6624
10. Doha 5817

[PDXCWL45]

Domestic routes October 2018
Aberdeen 151 -75%
Anglesey 1406 +11%
Belfast TBA
Edinburgh 8852 +9%
Glasgow 2679 +10%
Jersey 1888 +7%
Liverpool 84
Newcastle 648 -45%
European and International routes October 2018
Larnaca 2267 -20%
Paphos 1729 +16%
Lyon 89
Paris CDG 6691 +40%
Paris Le Bourget 81
Pau 40
Berlin 1059 -36%
Dusseldorf 395 +40%
Munich 1171 -22%
Corfu 1241 -11%
Heraklion 1615 -3%
Kos 1300 -12%
Rhodes 2394 +36%
Zakinthos 864 +129%
Cork 1168 -24%
Dublin 9170 -13%
Milan MXP 1673 -1%
Rome FCO 1534 -9%
Venice 672
Verona 631 -12%
Amsterdam 12,580 +5%
Faro 6624 -1%
Alicante 9315 -10%
Barcelona 2214 +4%
Ibiza 3241 +25%
Madrid 200
Mahon 1214 -6%
Malaga 8945 +5%
Palma de Mallorca 8843 -25%
Reus 525 -71%
Arrecife 4198 -9%
Las Palma 1454 -3%
Tenerife South 10,119 -3%
Vaxjo 56
Antalya 1995
Dalaman 5450 +99%
Doha 5817

[Sharklet_321]

Very disappointing Doha figures

[PDXCWL45]

Very disappointing Doha figures
Yeah but excellent Amsterdam figures as many seem to predict a nose dive on that route due to Qatar arriving!

[daz211]

Quick question - I have just noticed in May that CWL-VLY-CWL is sometimes operated 3x daily with the afternoon flights only departing 15mins apart is this normal? Or something new.
I know there was talks of a bigger aircraft but was rejected so maybe something to to with demand?

[PDXCWL45]

Quick question - I have just noticed in May that CWL-VLY-CWL is sometimes operated 3x daily with the afternoon flights only departing 15mins apart is this normal? Or something new.
I know there was talks of a bigger aircraft but was rejected so maybe something to to with demand?

The welsh government does want to expand the service and sought permission for all the seats to be sold on the J41 which was refused. It sounds like then they are adding extra flights! Which is really good!

[caaardiff]

Quick question - I have just noticed in May that CWL-VLY-CWL is sometimes operated 3x daily with the afternoon flights only departing 15mins apart is this normal? Or something new.
I know there was talks of a bigger aircraft but was rejected so maybe something to to with demand?

What dates in May? I can only find 2x daily flights.

[daz211]

What dates in May? I can only find 2x daily flights.

Friday 24th May VLY-CWL 0855 / 1625 / 164 (tel:0855 / 1625 / 1649)0

Possible an error on skyscanner as both flights in the afternoon show flt No BE7619 However one £33 more than the other.

[Severn]

TCX - Summer 2019

TCX have updated the schedule and it shows that in Summer 2019, a SmartLynx A320 will be based, which is the same as Summer 2018. The number of flights per week will drop to 14 down from 16 in 2018.

In 2019, there will be 14x weekly departures with the following changes from Summer 2018.
DLM x3 (+1 on 2018)
PMI x2 (-1 on 2018)
TFS x2 (no change)
ZTH x2 (no change)
NBE x1 (+1 on 2018) *New route
AYT x1 (no change)
LCA x1 (no change)
REU x1 (no change)
RHO x1 (no change)​​​​​​​

ACE - Route dropped (-1 on 2018)
BOJ - Route dropped (-1 on 2018)
IBZ - Route dropped (-1 on 2018)

SUMMARY
In 2018, the weekly AYT was operated by a BRS based TCX A321 on a W-Pattern.
In 2019, the weekly AYT will be operated by a CWL based A320 on a Saturday afternoon which will take the place of the IBZ and BOJ flights that operated that time slot in 2018.

SCHEDULE (Departure times from CWL)
Mon: ZTH - 06:50 / DLM - 16:05
Tue: PMI - 07:10 / TFS - 14:15
Wed: NBE - 06:00 / RHO - 14:55
Thu: ZTH - 06:00 / DLM - 15:10
Fri: TFS - 06:10 / DLM - 16:30
Sat: PMI - 07:10 / AYT - 14:10
Sun: REU - 07:40 / LCA - 14:00

[PDXCWL45]

Feels like Thomas Cook have taken a step backwards. 3 routes culled and 2 weekly flights less. It's a shame they can't use non based aircraft or airlines to expand their offering like TUI has done at CWL .

[fjencl]

How is the smarlynx a320 aircraft crewed .Is it smarlynx flight deck and Thomas Cook cabin crew or is it smartlynx flight deck and smartlynx cabin crew .

[PDXCWL45]

How is the smarlynx a320 aircraft crewed .Is it smarlynx flight deck and Thomas Cook cabin crew or is it smartlynx flight deck and smartlynx cabin crew .
Smartlynx flight crew and Thomas Cook cabin crew.

[PDXCWL45]

New airbridge is up and running on stand 9.
KLM the first to use it.
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/1075454685232943104?s=19

[VickersVicount]

QR Doha daily from end of May S19 - will ge interesting to see what that does to numbers.
All UK routes seeing capacity increases S19 (except EDI I think).

[tartan 201]

All UK routes seeing capacity increases S19 (except EDI I think).
What capacity increases are they proposing at LHR and BHX? (Details of MAN, CWL and LGW increases here (among others)): https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/282123/qatar-airways-s19-service-changes-as-of-21dec18/

[ld0595]

To be fair Edinburgh got a decent capacity uplift with the introduction of the A359. Clearly the Cardiff route must be doing reasonably well to warrant a daily service! Good news for the airport!

[MerchantVenturer]

Qatar's CWL-DOH operated daily in summer 2018 from 18 June. It dropped to 5 x weekly for the current winter.

[yeo valley]

November stats for CWL DOH with Qatar.
Average pax figures were 119 per flight,which works out at 47%

[ATNotts]

November stats for CWL DOH with Qatar.
Average pax figures were 119 per flight,which works out at 47%

Likely the route is commercial dead duck, but luckily QR aren't really a commercial enterprise, and the Welsh government have underwritten it for now.

[PDXCWL45]

Likely the route is commercial dead duck, but luckily QR aren't really a commercial enterprise, and the Welsh government have underwritten it for now.
Oh come on the service hasn't even operated for a year yet. No one knows the numbers and what profit they are making on ANY of their UK routes.

[ATNotts]

Oh come on the service hasn't even operated for a year yet. No one knows the numbers and what profit they are making on ANY of their UK routes.

I doubt they're making megabucks anywhere away from London and possibly MAN - but that isn't necessarily an issue, since as I said QR isn't there as a profit machine, more as a vanity project. However in view of the alleged deal that they have with the Welsh government they are doubly safe as Cardiff for the.

You're right about a development period, it's just a shame that in today's industry the old 2 year rule of thumb has by and large gone out of the window.

[bycrewlgw]

I doubt they're making megabucks anywhere away from London and possibly MAN - but that isn't necessarily an issue, since as I said QR isn't there as a profit machine, more as a vanity project. However in view of the alleged deal that they have with the Welsh government they are doubly safe as Cardiff for the.

You're right about a development period, it's just a shame that in today's industry the old 2 year rule of thumb has by and large gone out of the window.

Its been published that the WAG gave £1m for route development. Whether you agree with it or not that wouldn’t last long so can’t be doing too badly.

[ATNotts]

Its been published that the WAG gave £1m for route development. Whether you agree with it or not that wouldn’t last long so can’t be doing too badly.

That's hardly a paltry sum, and be assured that it was probably a deal maker / breaker. But that's neither here nor there, if QR are giving the route 2 years to start turning a profit then that's fine. It does however stick in the throat that as the UK isn't properly federalised, what the Welsh and Scottish governments can do, no region of England can and that isn't a level playing fields in anyone's book.

[Reversethrustset]

Does it matter? Surely you don't lay awake at night worrying about it? Anything that happens at parliament level is way, way out of your or my control so what's the point in concerning yourself with it? All governments spend my cash on more nonsensical projects than subsidising routes so if they didn't spend it on trying to help an economy they'll spend it on some dead head who can't be arsed to get a job.

[bycrewlgw]

That's hardly a paltry sum, and be assured that it was probably a deal maker / breaker. But that's neither here nor there, if QR are giving the route 2 years to start turning a profit then that's fine. It does however stick in the throat that as the UK isn't properly federalised, what the Welsh and Scottish governments can do, no region of England can and that isn't a level playing fields in anyone's book.

so no English airport has ever paid for marketing and ancillaries? I very much doubt that is true. As reverse has stated if it wasn’t spend there it would be wasted else where. Not gonna keep me awake and yes I’m welsh btw

[PDXCWL45]

In other news Thomas Cook are upgrading Cardiff to an A321 for Summer 2019. Believed to be operated by Smartlynx.

[MerchantVenturer]

so no English airport has ever paid for marketing and ancillaries? I very much doubt that is true.

The Welsh Government's wholly owned airport company did not provide the one million pounds marketing support. It came directly from the Welsh Government and will not appear in their airport company's balance sheet.

Privately-owned airports undoubtedly do spend money on marketing and route support but that is a commercial decision, will impact on the airport company's profit/loss and will be shown in the company's balance sheet.

That's the situation the UK government has provided - a quasi federal system with significant autonomy for three of the four constituent countries - and if the WG takes advantage of this who can blame them?

[ATNotts]

The Welsh Government's wholly owned airport company did not provide the one million pounds marketing support. It came directly from the Welsh Government and will not appear in their airport company's balance sheet.

Privately-owned airports undoubtedly do spend money on marketing and route support but that is a commercial decision, will impact on the airport company's profit/loss and will be shown in the company's balance sheet.

That's the situation the UK government has provided - a quasi federal system with significant autonomy for three of the four constituent countries - and if the WG takes advantage of this who can blame them?

That is exactly the point; the advantages the Wales, Scotland and N.I have are not available to England. I wouldn't blame the Welsh government for using this advantage, but it doesn't alter the facts that England effectively has no autonomy, and as a result the money and subsidy largely get sucked into London, where it is needed least.

That's a political point, and this forum isn't there to discuss politics.

[Asturias56]

That is exactly correct - in a Federal System local politicians take the decisions and reap the consequences - the one size fits all model no longer applies.

See the USA for how it works................... bit of a shock to English sensibilities I grant you...............

[Rutan16]

ATNots and northern Spannish region - English regional electorates were given the opportunity to have regional assemblies . The first referendum held in the North East (pretty much the same electorate that turned over fourty years of cooperation with our European neighbours and resultant economic successes) shat on expanding democracatic accountability and control of local budgets by rejecting the offer of an assembly.
All other porposals other than city mayors have ended up in the bin !
England in particular doesn’t seem ready for MORE and closer democratic accountability and responsibilities any time soon .
A shame, though the right wing media would say it would be more public money wasted on beaurocrats I am sure.
So blame lack of regional UK accountability where it’s due and it’s not Westminster in reality.

[ATNotts]

ATNots and northern Spannish region - English regional electorates were given the opportunity to have regional assemblies . The first referendum held in the North East (pretty much the same electorate that turned over fourty years of cooperation with our European neighbours and resultant economic successes) shat on expanding democracatic accountability and control of local budgets by rejecting the offer of an assembly.
All other porposals other than city mayors have ended up in the bin !
England in particular doesn’t seem ready for MORE and closer democratic accountability and responsibilities any time soon .
A shame, though the right wing media would say it would be more public money wasted on beaurocrats I am sure.
So blame lack of regional UK accountability where it’s due and it’s not Westminster in reality.

A fair analysis. I suppose that if we (the English) were given a choice to vote on a proper federal system (akin to the German model perhaps) where viably sized regional governments had real powers and the consequences and opportunities were properly explained (fat chance of that I imagine!) then people may go for the idea, but I fear that people view local government as the perceived lack of power that councils actually have, which is why so few people vote in local elections, and rather than vote on what their elected representatives are, or aren't doing, they vote according to the performance of the UK government in Westminster.

We are in many ways a rather immature democracy.

[inOban]

It's not real power that devolved administrations need. It's real money.

[SWBKCB]

English regional electorates were given the opportunity to have regional assemblies . The first referendum held in the North East shat on expanding democracatic accountability and control of local budgets by rejecting the offer of an assembly.

Hmm - a regional assembly with little power and responsibilty? Why would that be seen as just a talking shop? :rolleyes:

Even the powers of the devolved administrations/National Governments is inconsistent, to put it mildly.

Anyway, back to CWL. I think the objection in this case is that the access to government funding which isn't available elsewhere.

[Welshtraveller]

Why are Flybe's flights being diverted to St Athan instead of Cardiff?

Five flights were diverted today and five flights were diverted yesterday.

All of the other flights arrived as normal.

Why?

Thanks all. Happy New Year.

[Fly757X]

Why are Flybe's flights being diverted to St Athan instead of Cardiff?

Five flights were diverted today and five flights were diverted yesterday.

All of the other flights arrived as normal.

Why?

Thanks all. Happy New Year.

That can be explained due to the Limitations of MLAT and FR24 Calculations. They did get to CWL.

[Welshtraveller]

That can be explained due to the Limitations of MLAT and FR24 Calculations. They did get to CWL.

Sorry I don’t understand what you mean. I have just googled MLAT and FR24.

Are you saying that the flights arrived in Cardiff not St Athan?

Thanks.

[PDXCWL45]

Sorry I don’t understand what you mean. I have just googled MLAT and FR24.

Are you saying that the flights arrived in Cardiff not St Athan?

Thanks.


For some reason, i think it's the transponder they use, with Flybe Fr24 loses track of them below 3000 feet i believe and then says they've landed at the nearest airport which when I think it's runway 12 in operation at Cardiff is St Athan and sometimes it'll even say Swansea but the flights have landed at Cardiff.

[Welshtraveller]

PDXCWL45 (https://www.pprune.org/members/475710-pdxcwl45) - Thank you. :)

[bycrewlgw]

TCX basing an A321 at CWL for summer ‘19. 29,000 extra seats across the network.

[PDXCWL45]

TCX basing an A321 at CWL for summer ‘19. 29,000 extra seats across the network.

Yep very good news for the airport. Shows TCX have confidence in Cardiff. Starting earlier and basing a bigger aircraft!

[PDXCWL45]

Ryanair argues for devolving air tax to Wales and hints at new flights for Cardiff.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/ryanair-argues-devolving-air-tax-15647986?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=socia&lutm_campaign=wales_main

[PDXCWL45]

With the Flybe takeover by the Virgin lead consortium what do people think the future holds for the Flybe operation at CWL? Or is it a case of just wait and see?

[bycrewlgw]

With the Flybe takeover by the Virgin lead consortium what do people think the future holds for the Flybe operation at CWL? Or is it a case of just wait and see?

going to be a case of wait and see. Only those involved will know where they want to take the business. Bottom line is how profitable the routes are and whether they fit in with the new business strategy. They must have some sort of plan though. They could easily have set up their own from Manchester and few routes from lhr if they had only wanted a regional connecting airline so regional flying may link in with their strategy especially with KL/AF too.

[PDXCWL45]

going to be a case of wait and see. Only those involved will know where they want to take the business. Bottom line is how profitable the routes are and whether they fit in with the new business strategy. They must have some sort of plan though. They could easily have set up their own from Manchester and few routes from lhr if they had only wanted a regional connecting airline so regional flying may link in with their strategy especially with KL/AF too.

Yep i do hope it'll be positive for CWL or at least the worst that happens is the E-jets get swapped for Q400s and it will depend on what sort of agreement the airport and airline could come too.

[Welshtraveller]

Why was today’s TUI’s flight to Tenerife and yesterday’s flight to Lanzarote delayed?

Thanks.

[sixchannel]

Why was today’s TUI’s flight to Tenerife and yesterday’s flight to Lanzarote delayed?

Thanks.

Same aircraft - G-TAWN.

[Welshtraveller]

Same aircraft - G-TAWN.

Do you know the reason(s) for the delays?

[sixchannel]

Do you know the reason(s) for the delays?
G-TAWN flew on the 15th but not on the 16th so MAY have acquired a Tech that took some time to fix. Equally of course, a Winter schedule doesnt require flights every day. Whatever the case, it was on a Loser from the get-go on the 17th being 2 hours late off the blocks and didnt revover its Timings until today.

[PDXCWL45]

G-TAWN flew on the 15th but not on the 16th so MAY have acquired a Tech that took some time to fix. Equally of course, a Winter schedule doesnt require flights every day. Whatever the case, it was on a Loser from the get-go on the 17th being 2 hours late off the blocks and didnt revover its Timings until today.
There are no TUI flights on Wednesdays between December and March at Cardiff in the winter.

[PDXCWL45]

CAA stats for December 2018
December saw 85,663 passengers use the airport up 7% on 2017.
1,579,286 passengers used the airport in 2018 up 7.9% on 2017.
Top 10 routes
1. Amsterdam 12,461
2. Dublin 7318
3. Tenerife South 6995
4. Edinburgh 6914
5. Doha 6449
6. Alicante 6436
7. Belfast City 5926
8. Paris CDG 4787
9. Malaga 3666
10. Glasgow 3544

[PDXCWL45]

Qatar Airways carried 55,568 passengers through the airport in 2018 averaging 132 passengers per flight and a 52.3% load factor.

[CabinCrewe]

Still not lighting any torches then. How do these months compare to the original other regional QR DOH launch to EDI in their first months. Think they only now just routinely reach low 70's on average.

[PDXCWL45]

Still not lighting any torches then. How do these months compare to the original other regional QR DOH launch to EDI in their first months. Think they only now just routinely reach low 70's on average.
I honestly don't have a clue and comparing Cardiff to Edinburgh is a waste of time. The route is generally doing ok and no doubt will mature over time.

[MerchantVenturer]

Ryanair booking engine showing Malaga 3 x weekly (M, W, F) June-September. AGP-CWL 1740-1920: CWL-AGP 1945-2325.

[Welshtraveller]

Ryanair booking engine showing Malaga 3 x weekly (M, W, F) June-September. AGP-CWL 1740-1920: CWL-AGP 1945-2325.

Information is available on the link below:-

https://ukaviation.news/ryanair-to-launch-cardiff-airport-to-malaga-flight-this-summer/

[PDXCWL45]

Good growth from Ryanair from 3 weekly flights to 10 weekly flights!

[Wycombe]

You would have thought that CWL would want to protect the Vueling operation (they have been very good for the airport), but Ryanair do tend to generate their own market.

Hope it works for all concerned.

[PDXCWL45]

You would have thought that CWL would want to protect the Vueling operation (they have been very good for the airport), but Ryanair do tend to generate their own market.

Hope it works for all concerned.
Vueling are strong on Malaga and especially summer peak when the flights are full. But they can only offer so much as an airline and haven't expanded the route offering at CWL.
Ryanair offer more as an airline for the airport. They are a lot more well known and will bring in new passengers for the airport and offer the chance of notonly a base in the future but a a route network that encompasses more than just Spain.

[bycrewlgw]

Vueling are strong on Malaga and especially summer peak when the flights are full. But they can only offer so much as an airline and haven't expanded the route offering at CWL.
Ryanair offer more as an airline for the airport. They are a lot more well known and will bring in new passengers for the airport and offer the chance of notonly a base in the future but a a route network that encompasses more than just Spain.

while it’s great that FR are expanding, the airport should be careful not to put all their eggs in one basket. FR left last time over a disagreement, they can do so again. There are plenty of other destinations that FR could serve from overseas bases such as LPA, ACE, FUE to name a few.

[PDXCWL45]

while it’s great that FR are expanding, the airport should be carefully not to put all their eggs in one basket. FR left last time over a disagreement, they can do so again. There are plenty of other destinations that FR could serve from overseas bases such as LPA, ACE, FUE to name a few.


It is a catch 22 situation for the airport. It needs to grow and Ryanair do seem willing to do that and add new routes and seem to be slowly testing the South Wales market. I wouldn't be surprised if theycontinue to add more. Lanzarote would be a good one but i think may depend on whether they keep their canary island bases. Hopefully they'll look at extending more routes into the winter to test year round demand.

[PDXCWL45]

I also think that the relationship between the airport and Ryanair is a lot better and i don't think they'll be raising the prices like they did before!

[bycrewlgw]

I also think that the relationship between the airport and Ryanair is a lot better and i don't think they'll be raising the prices like they did before!

wasnt the reason why they increased the prices last time is that FR didn’t deliver on its 2 flights a day to Dublin though or was it a base? Can’t remember now :-)

[cymru]

Great news FR have added another route and the number of Welsh passengers flying to Malaga from Bristol still should easily be able to fill these once they are aware of the option of the CWL flight. But have Vueling reduced capacity to Barcelona and Malaga compared to last summer or has it remained the same?

[caaardiff]

wasnt the reason why they increased the prices last time is that FR didn’t deliver on its 2 flights a day to Dublin though or was it a base? Can’t remember now :-)


I don't think it was ever confirmed, and was always rumour that CWL wouldn't do a deal with FR that would meet FR's requirements. Things were very different back then, it must've been 2006. That was when TUI were growing, bmiBaby were still growing, there were numerous other Tour Operators like Goldtrail still going, long haul was growing and things were looking up at the Airport. I'm not sure of timescales for FR pulling out but Air Wales folder in April 2006 too. The Airport were probably being a bit over confident and thinking they didn't need to make deals with FR. Things have taken a big change since then, and there's a lot less options for CWL and Airlines to pitch towards due to so much consolidation happening in recent years.
FR seem to be working well with CWL at the moment, especially after the recent APD press release, but no Airline will favour good relationships over business, especially FR. Provided FR are getting what they want, they will stay, if they don't, they'll pull the plug. You could argue that is whats happening at BRS at the moment. EZY and TUI/TCX are dominant in their markets at the moment. Why FR haven't expanded is anyones guess. BRS may not be willing to give FR the deals they want and are comfortable that their other carriers will pick up the routes, that where FR are being stagnant and looking to the other Airports in the region, (CWL, EXT, NQY, BOH) that you could argue are desperate and all have catchments that are leaking to BRS.

[GROUNDHOG]

I don't think it was ever confirmed, and was always rumour that CWL wouldn't do a deal with FR that would meet FR's requirements. Things were very different back then, it must've been 2006. That was when TUI were growing, bmiBaby were still growing, there were numerous other Tour Operators like Goldtrail still going, long haul was growing and things were looking up at the Airport. I'm not sure of timescales for FR pulling out but Air Wales folder in April 2006 too. The Airport were probably being a bit over confident and thinking they didn't need to make deals with FR. Things have taken a big change since then, and there's a lot less options for CWL and Airlines to pitch towards due to so much consolidation happening in recent years.
FR seem to be working well with CWL at the moment, especially after the recent APD press release, but no Airline will favour good relationships over business, especially FR. Provided FR are getting what they want, they will stay, if they don't, they'll pull the plug. You could argue that is whats happening at BRS at the moment. EZY and TUI/TCX are dominant in their markets at the moment. Why FR haven't expanded is anyones guess. BRS may not be willing to give FR the deals they want and are comfortable that their other carriers will pick up the routes, that where FR are being stagnant and looking to the other Airports in the region, (CWL, EXT, NQY, BOH) that you could argue are desperate and all have catchments that are leaking to BRS.


Just for the record can I reiterate once again that Air Wales didn't fold or go bust or have unpaid debts. The decision was taken to cease commercial operations. Two very different things!

[MerchantVenturer]

FR seem to be working well with CWL at the moment, especially after the recent APD press release, but no Airline will favour good relationships over business, especially FR. Provided FR are getting what they want, they will stay, if they don't, they'll pull the plug. You could argue that is whats happening at BRS at the moment. EZY and TUI/TCX are dominant in their markets at the moment. Why FR haven't expanded is anyones guess. BRS may not be willing to give FR the deals they want and are comfortable that their other carriers will pick up the routes, that where FR are being stagnant and looking to the other Airports in the region, (CWL, EXT, NQY, BOH) that you could argue are desperate and all have catchments that are leaking to BRS.

Ryanair has stagnated to a degree at BRS in recent summers: 2016 27 destinations; 2017 29 destinations; 2018 32 destinations; 2019 31 destinations (Reus yet to appear) but within this there have been frequency tweaks to accommodate the additional routes, giving a broadly flat pattern of overall seating capacity in recent summers.

Winter is entirely different with Ryanair expanding at BRS each winter over the past four winters (as is easyJet), from 15 destinations in winter 15/16 to 25 destinations in the current winter with seating capacity up over 60% during that period. Ryanair and easyJet have competed on the main sun routes for many years but increasingly Ryanair is replicating some of easyJet's non-sun routes such as Krakow, Venice MP and (new for this winter) Seville and Sofia.

It might not be then that Ryanair isn't getting the deal it wants with BRS but rather it recognises that CWL has been under provisioned for many years and now is the time to do something about it - in particular with the main sun routes. For example, in 2007 which was CWL's best ever year with nearly 2.1 million passengers Palma handled 170,000 passengers, Alicante 161,000 and Malaga 150,000. In 2017, despite Vueling and the charter carriers, the figures were respectively 112,000, 105,000 and 85,000.

CWL has invariably done well with its sun routes in the main summer period in terms of passenger numbers - as always I know that high loads anywhere don't necessarily bring successful yields - so perhaps it's something of a surprise that airlines haven't sought to exploit this particular market more quickly as the airport recovers from its nadir in 2012.


But have Vueling reduced capacity to Barcelona and Malaga compared to last summer or has it remained the same?


Vueling is not operating Barcelona from CWL in summer 2019.

[PDXCWL45]

Great news FR have added another route and the number of Welsh passengers flying to Malaga from Bristol still should easily be able to fill these once they are aware of the option of the CWL flight. But have Vueling reduced capacity to Barcelona and Malaga compared to last summer or has it remained the same?
Vueling dropped BCN and Ryanair took it over.
Malaga is 5 weekly same as last year
PMI is 4 weekly same as last year
Alicante is 6 weekly up 1 weekly form last year

[marko1]

I don't think it was ever confirmed, and was always rumour that CWL wouldn't do a deal with FR that would meet FR's requirements. Things were very different back then, it must've been 2006. That was when TUI were growing, bmiBaby were still growing, there were numerous other Tour Operators like Goldtrail still going, long haul was growing and things were looking up at the Airport. I'm not sure of timescales for FR pulling out but Air Wales folder in April 2006 too. The Airport were probably being a bit over confident and thinking they didn't need to make deals with FR. Things have taken a big change since then, and there's a lot less options for CWL and Airlines to pitch towards due to so much consolidation happening in recent years.
FR seem to be working well with CWL at the moment, especially after the recent APD press release, but no Airline will favour good relationships over business, especially FR. Provided FR are getting what they want, they will stay, if they don't, they'll pull the plug. You could argue that is whats happening at BRS at the moment. EZY and TUI/TCX are dominant in their markets at the moment. Why FR haven't expanded is anyones guess. BRS may not be willing to give FR the deals they want and are comfortable that their other carriers will pick up the routes, that where FR are being stagnant and looking to the other Airports in the region, (CWL, EXT, NQY, BOH) that you could argue are desperate and all have catchments that are leaking to BRS.


Bristol is not alone in stagnant Ryanair growth - Birmingham Leeds and East Midlands are the same. If Ryanair wanted to it could have expanded in a big way at bhx when monarch collapsed. I just don’t think the UK regional bases interest Ryanair too greatly at the moment.

[PDXCWL45]

It might be a case of that in those airports Ryanair hasn't be offered a good enough deal to expand compared to other airports across Europe. They have expanded quite a lot lately into Ukriane and Israel and Germany and the UK regional airports are up against that competition just as much as their local competition which for CWL would be BRS and BHX. I doubt APD helps many of the smaller UK airports in attracting routes from them when they can deploy the aircraft to places that don't have that.

[ATNotts]

Bristol is not alone in stagnant Ryanair growth - Birmingham Leeds and East Midlands are the same. If Ryanair wanted to it could have expanded in a big way at bhx when monarch collapsed. I just don’t think the UK regional bases interest Ryanair too greatly at the moment.

I heard something passing on BBC Radio 4 I think it was, that in the event of a no deal Brexit (sorry for mentioning the "B" word!) the EU would permit continued operations by British carriers but capped at similar levels to 2018. I'd not heard that before, but I suppose given the preeminence of London in UK, perhaps currently the regions, away from London and Manchester are feeling the effects of a potential no deal.

I may have heard wrongly, or the information broadcast may have been imprecise, so please don't shoot the messenger!

[SWBKCB]

Proposal for a REGULATION OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL on common rules ensuring basic air connectivity with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union (https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/893-aviation-connectivity.pdf)

Subject to Articles 4 and 5, in the provision of scheduled air transport services pursuant to this Regulation, the total seasonal capacity to be provided by UK air carriers for routes between the United Kingdom and each Member State shall not exceed the total number of frequencies operated by those carriers on those routes during respectively the IATA winter and summer seasons of the year of 2018

[LGS6753]

Note that this restricts UK airlines to 2018 frequencies, but EU carriers can expand.

[SWBKCB]

Note that this restricts UK airlines to 2018 frequencies, but EU carriers can expand.

Because it's talking about what access a non-member country will have to the EU market.

Clearly the UK will also be able to control access to it's own market.

[ATNotts]

Because it's talking about what access a non-member country will have to the EU market.

Clearly the UK will also be able to control access to it's own market.

Doubt even May's government is daft enough to do that!

[SWBKCB]

Doubt even May's government is daft enough to do that!

So we would allow EU airlines uncontrolled access to the UK, when UK access to the EU is controlled?

Apologies for going off topic :ok:

[ATNotts]

So we would allow EU airlines uncontrolled access to the UK, when UK access to the EU is controlled?

Apologies for going off topic :ok:

I only say that as to do so would be (another) potentially self inflicted wound.

[PDXCWL45]

Cardiff Airports annual update.
https://www.cardiff-airport.com/news/2019/01/29/cardiff-airports-annual-update-2019/

[PDXCWL45]

737 700 for 5 weeks from KLM starting 24th February
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/1090619742212235264?s=19

[PDXCWL45]

It's an extra flight a day!

[Letsflycwl]

Are KLM just increasing CWL flights over this period or also BRS aswell ?

Great to see a jump in capacity to the B737-700 for this period too.

Things certainly look a lot rosier for CWL this year, including the additional TOM aircraft, new FR flights and the MT upgrade to A321

[PDXCWL45]

Are KLM just increasing CWL flights over this period or also BRS aswell ?

Great to see a jump in capacity to the B737-700 for this period too.

Things certainly look a lot rosier for CWL this year, including the additional TOM aircraft and the MT upgrade to A321
Just at Cardiff. It's a bit odd because the airport says KLM 737 700, the website then says Transavia France but then says KLM 737 800 under flight details. And Google flights apparently says Transavia! So it'll be interesting to see what happens!

[Letsflycwl]

Well it’s good news I guess regardless, onwards and upwards in 2019 hopefully with some more destinations and airlines hopefully.

Shame about Iberia Express as it was reported the loads were pretty good to MAD.

[PDXCWL45]

Well it’s good news I guess regardless, onwards and upwards in 2019 hopefully with some more destinations and airlines hopefully.

Shame about Iberia Express as it was reported the loads were pretty good to MAD.
It sounds like it'll be KLM operated by Transavia France.
Yeah it is a shame about Madrid. Hopefully the route will come back one day.

[OltonPete]

Shame about Iberia Express as it was reported the loads were pretty good to MAD.
Depends on the person doing the reporting as the CAA show mixed loads.

June 2018...…..1075 pax…..108 per flight...…..60%
July 2018...……2340 pax…..130 per flight-------72%
Aug 2018...…...2655 pax…...148 per flight...….82%
Sep 2018...…...1049 pax…...105 per flight...….58%

Even if making money they probably think more can be made elsewhere in June July and September.

Pete

[PDXCWL45]

Members of the Welsh Affairs committee will visit Cardiff Airport to hear the case for devolving Air Passenger Duty.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-47176479

[Letsflycwl]

And about time too !!! Wales should have the same powers as Scotland & Northern Ireland here.

[Centre cities]

And about time too !!! Wales should have the same powers as Scotland & Northern Ireland here.

But so should the English regions. A level playing field for all please.

Regards

Centre cities

[CabinCrewe]

Having the powers means nothing... #SNP 🙄

[PDXCWL45]

Having the powers means nothing... #SNP 🙄
The Welsh political situation is different as the majority of the Sennedd support devolution of APD. The main opposition seems to come from welsh MPs in Westminster who seem more concerned about England than any benefits for Wales. If the committee does propose it being devolved there is no guarentee that the UK government actually will devolve it.

[SWBKCB]

The Welsh political situation is different as the majority of the Sennedd support devolution of APD.

How would any reduction in APD be funded?

[bycrewlgw]

The Welsh political situation is different as the majority of the Sennedd support devolution of APD. The main opposition seems to come from welsh MPs in Westminster who seem more concerned about England than any benefits for Wales. If the committee does propose it being devolved there is no guarentee that the UK government actually will devolve it.

As far as I’m aware it still has to be paid to the coffers so the welsh assembly would have to fund it. Not sure where the money is going to come from. It needs to be scraped uk wide or an alternative found. It’s certainly not being used for what it was designed for I’m sure.

i wonder how many airlines would actually reduce pricing or keep it the same to boost their profits?

[PDXCWL45]

As far as I’m aware it still has to be paid to the coffers so the welsh assembly would have to fund it. Not sure where the money is going to come from. It needs to be scraped uk wide or an alternative found. It’s certainly not being used for what it was designed for I’m sure.

i wonder how many airlines would actually reduce pricing or keep it the same to boost their profits?
From what I've read APD from Wales is a small amount especially when compared to the whole Welsh budget so essentially it's just an investment into the area and country as a whole.
As for the airlines I doubt they would drop prices but it would make routes more sustainable and give Cardiff a better chance of attracting more marginal routes especially when up against other airports in countries without this sort of tax.
There are better ways to tax the aviation industry than APD especially if it's purpose is supposed to be environmental.

[SWBKCB]

Bit of a scattergun approach if it's about sustainability and attracting marginal routes.

Mind you, cheaper holidays for those in the CWL catchment area should appeal to those voters. Wonder what the rest of Wales will think?

[PDXCWL45]

Bit of a scattergun approach if it's about sustainability and attracting marginal routes.

Mind you, cheaper holidays for those in the CWL catchment area should appeal to those voters. Wonder what the rest of Wales will think?
For the Welsh government it's not about cheaper holidays as CWL is having no problem regrowing that side. It's about being able to attract routes that'll bring in more inbound tourism amid fierce competition from other airports around Europe and equality with Scotland and Northern Ireland in the devolution settlement.

[ATNotts]

There are better ways to tax the aviation industry than APD especially if it's purpose is supposed to be environmental.

Better, on the face of it, to charge airlines the tax, based upon the capacity and efficiency of the aircraft operated. And, importantly ensure that executive aircraft are included in the scope of the tax. Also pure freight flights. I can see a downside, that airlines might be less inclined to take risks on launching new, possibly marginal service from the regions, but environmentally it's a winner.

[PDXCWL45]

Better, on the face of it, to charge airlines the tax, based upon the capacity and efficiency of the aircraft operated. And, importantly ensure that executive aircraft are included in the scope of the tax. Also pure freight flights. I can see a downside, that airlines might be less inclined to take risks on launching new, possibly marginal service from the regions, but environmentally it's a winner.
Or a jet fuel tax?

[bycrewlgw]

I may be wrong but isn’t there an ICAO rule that you can’t tax aviation or something? It maybe that you can’t add VAT or tax jet fuel. I’m sure I read that’s why it’s called a duty rather than tax.

[inOban]

I believe so. Essentially international traffic, by air or sea, is subsidised because almost all countries tax fuel used within their borders.

[PDXCWL45]

Eastern Airways have been awarded the Anglesey service for the next 4 years.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1097423617200132096

[crackling jet]

Is that the route where you obtain an a/c, park it at Cardiff day and night and the revenue just rolls in ?, Sweet

[PDXCWL45]

Is that the route where you obtain an a/c, park it at Cardiff day and night and the revenue just rolls in ?, Sweet
No it's the route that provides vital connections between the north of Wales and the capital for ordinary people and businesses. Bit like the highland and islands routes in Scotland.

[SWBKCB]

Will the J41's be around for 4 years?

[PDXCWL45]

Will the J41's be around for 4 years?
If not then I'd imagine that they would have to use another aircraft.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Will the J41's be around for 4 years?

More chance of the J41s being around than Eastern if the latest accounts are anything to go by!

[PDXCWL45]

Will the J41's be around for 4 years?

Looks like the youngest J41 is 22 years old but most are around 25 years old.

[SWBKCB]

But given the size of the world-wide fleet, aren't there issues with spares and on-going support?

What does the PSO contract say about the size of the a/c to be used. Hasn't this been an issue previously?

[Jersey32D]

But given the size of the world-wide fleet, aren't there issues with spares and on-going support?

What does the PSO contract say about the size of the a/c to be used. Hasn't this been an issue previously?

I believe the aircraft used in this route, G-MAJG has been reconfigured to just 19 seats.

[PDXCWL45]

I believe the aircraft used in this route, G-MAJG has been reconfigured to just 19 seats.
That aircraft is no longer in use now. On my flight in October it was a 29 seat configuration.

[BAladdy]

Is that the route where you obtain an a/c, park it at Cardiff day and night and the revenue just rolls in ?, Sweet
Eastern made some changes to there operations at CWL a couple of months ago, which means that the aircraft that operates the PSO contract only spends a couple of hours on the ground during the day. The aircraft is also no longer parked up at CWL over the weekend. It now operates:

Monday to Thursday -
CWL-VLY-CWL-NCL-CWL-VLY-CWL

Friday
CWL-VLY-CWL-NCL-CWL-VLY-CWL-NCL

Sunday
NCL-CWL

[cymru]

New press release on the Cardiff Airport website. Not sure if we have gained or lost destinations. Interesting that they have chosen to plug the Dublin link for US connections again. It is clearly working for the KLM route so this would at least get international passengers starting their journeys from Cardiff which will help break the habit of going to Heathrow etc. Then they are more likely to look at Cardiff first. I recently used the KLM link to fly to Bogotá and much prefer that than the trek to Heathrow.*

[PDXCWL45]

New press release on the Cardiff Airport website. Not sure if we have gained or lost destinations. Interesting that they have chosen to plug the Dublin link for US connections again. It is clearly working for the KLM route so this would at least get international passengers starting their journeys from Cardiff which will help break the habit of going to Heathrow etc. Then they are more likely to look at Cardiff first. I recently used the KLM link to fly to Bogotá and much prefer that than the trek to Heathrow.*

Flybe destinations lost are Berlin and Dusseldorf.
This is what the Summer 2019 looks like for Flybe.Just thought i'd do a summary of what Flybe will be offering for Summer 2019.
Belfast City 11 weekly departures no change
Cork 2 weekly departures no change
Dublin 15 weekly departures +1
Edinburgh 17 weekly departures +4
Faro 4 weekly departures -1
Glasgow 5 weekly departures no change
Jersey 3 weekly departures -1
Milan MXP 2 weekly departures until 28th September -1
Munich 2 weekly departures until 6th September -1
Paris CDG 11 weekly departures +1
Rome FCO 2 weekly departures until 7th September no change
Venice 2 weekly departures until 7th September no change
Verona 2 weekly departures until 7th September no change
76 weekly flights. Goes down to 70 after the 7/9/19 and 68 after 28/9/19

[PDXCWL45]

As the CAA have been slow releasing the total figures for 2018 i decided not too wait and add up Amsterdams figures for myself.

In 2017 KLM carried 134,095 passengers in and out of Cardiff in 2018 this has gone up to 146,328. An extra 12,233 passengers have used the route in 2018 which is essentially an extra months worth of passengers and is growth of 9.1%.
November was the busiest month (13,472) with 9 months of the year over the 12,000 passenger mark.
Hopefully this growth will continue and will lead to larger aircraft in the long term.
It's also noticeable that fears that Qatar would just take KLMs passengers and that they would be forced out seem to be unfounded.

[bycrewlgw]

FRANCE:
Chambery 608 +9%
Paris CDG 4,110 +3%

GERMANY:
Berlin TXL 276 -76%
Munich 488 -58%

IRELAND:
Cork 1,008 +28%
Dublin 6,088 -12%

ITALY:
Milan MXP 294 -74%
Rome FCO 473 -65%

NETHERLANDS:
Amsterdam 11,609 +8%

PORTUGAL:
Faro 312 +8%

SPAIN:
Alicante 6,358 -2%
Malaga 3,765 +4%
Lanzarote 3,282 +12%
Gran Canaria 1,418 -4%
Tenerife TFS 7,379 +16%

SWITZERLAND:
Geneva 956 +23%

QATAR:
Doha 6,614 NEW ROUTE

BARBADOS:
Barbados 596 -33%

JAMAICA:
Montego Bay 596 -33%

Mixed month with a lot of established routes down by big margins.

[cymru]

Was it an overall increase or decrease on Jan last year?

[bycrewlgw]

Was it an overall increase or decrease on Jan last year?

still an increase of 7.7% the qatar figures would have helped that. Massive drops on some BE routes to Germany and Italy though.

[fanrailuk]

Can you confirm the DOH figures are indeed correct?

22 rotations in January would give 5,588 seats available for sale (at 5 weekly)

Sad to see such drops on those "nicer" routes to Germany and Italy; reason I guess they're being culled end of S19.

On the other hand it's nice to see those ski routes getting a nice little increase on last year.

[cymru]

I think some of the problem with those European cities is the schedule. Munich and Milan are good for business and tourism. But there aren’t many options for weekends away where you can fly out on a Friday and come back on a Sunday or Monday. This is largely down to the number of aircraft but ideally you would have two or three flights to the cities that allowed a bit more scope for a weekend city break. At the moment you can only really do that Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Paris and Amsterdam.

[bycrewlgw]

Can you confirm the DOH figures are indeed correct?

22 rotations in January would give 5,588 seats available for sale (at 5 weekly)

Sad to see such drops on those "nicer" routes to Germany and Italy; reason I guess they're being culled end of S19.

On the other hand it's nice to see those ski routes getting a nice little increase on last year.

just quoting what’s on the CAA page. Showing 6614 for the month.

22 rotations would give 11,176 seats for the month 254 inbound 254 outbound. So effectively 508 seats each day it operates.

[PDXCWL45]

CAA stats for January 2019
73,100 passengers used the airport up 4% on 2018. The rolling year was 1,582,089 up 7.7% on 2018.
Atms were 958 down 11% from 2018.
Top 10 routes for January 2019
1. Amsterdam 11,609
2. Tenerife South 7379
3. Doha 6614
4. Alicante 6358
5. Dublin 6088
6. Edinburgh 6017
7. Belfast City 5178
8. Paris CDG 4110
9. Malaga 3765
10. Arrecife 3282

[PDXCWL45]

Can you confirm the DOH figures are indeed correct?

22 rotations in January would give 5,588 seats available for sale (at 5 weekly)

Sad to see such drops on those "nicer" routes to Germany and Italy; reason I guess they're being culled end of S19.

On the other hand it's nice to see those ski routes getting a nice little increase on last year.

Flybe suspended them for most of January hence the drop in numbers, Whether they will return for next year is unknown but the airport has said the routes are viable and used by a lot of tour operators, especially Italy.

[PDXCWL45]

CAA Stats for 2018
1,579,286 passengers used the airport in 2018 up 7.9% on 2017.
Top 12 routes for 2018
1. Amsterdam 146,058
2. Palma de Mallorca 108,313
3. Dublin 108,275
4. Alicante 104,211
5. Edinburgh 102,102
6. Tenerife South 88,771
7. Malaga 88,740
8. Paris CDG 77,676
9. Belfast City 70,784
10. Faro 64,076
11. Doha 55,568
12. Arrecife 46,465

[PDXCWL45]

It looks like Ryanair will make Malta all year round. Flights not onsale yet but loaded up onto the website. Tenerife will return at 2 weekly as well.

[fanrailuk]

Interesting discussion between the Chiefs of CWL, BRS and MAN on the devolution of APD to Wales.

Its a little long but worth a listen...

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/3648d0ec-d93a-4472-8202-a9aa674041e5

I do wonder if BHX were invited along too?

[PDXCWL45]

Interesting discussion between the Chiefs of CWL, BRS and MAN on the devolution of APD to Wales.

Its a little long but worth a listen...

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/3648d0ec-d93a-4472-8202-a9aa674041e5

I do wonder if BHX were invited along too?
BHX has submitted written evidence along with Liverpool airport as well to the Welsh Affairs committee over whether APD should be devolved to Wales.

[fanrailuk]

Looks like Vueling are loading their W19/20 flights onto their booking systems; currently no changes on W18/19

AGP twice weekly (Tu and Sa)
ALC thrice weekly (Tu, Th, Sa)

[cymru]

With the Thomas Cook flights starting a month earlier than previous years next week and the increased flights and sometimes aircraft with KLM over the last few weeks, it would be interesting to know how full these flights have been or are from passenger reports.

[Welshtraveller]

Why is the 7am flight to Dublin cancelled this morning? The flight was cancelled last night, can’t be fog as other flights are departing as normal. I notice another flight to Dublin at 8.15am with a different flight number, the incoming flight is arriving from Southampton, is this related? Thanks.

[PDXCWL45]

With the Thomas Cook flights starting a month earlier than previous years next week and the increased flights and sometimes aircraft with KLM over the last few weeks, it would be interesting to know how full these flights have been or are from passenger reports.
We won't know the figures until the CAA stats come out. Generally though KLM has been doing well at Cardiff lately with the flights often full, the arrival of Qatar seems to be helping them. With the extra flights I've seen reported LFs as low as 50 passengers and as high as 100. Hopefully the trial will lead to either bigger aircraft or a 4th daily.
Thomas Cook must be happy with April as they are starting in April again in 2020 and of course Ryanair will be daily from next week which is an added boost.
I used the airport on Thursday for a day trip to Berlin using Flybe and KLM and it was nice and busy but not crammed. The whole airport experience was good and quick both departing and arriving.

[Reversethrustset]

Why is the 7am flight to Dublin cancelled this morning? The flight was cancelled last night, can’t be fog as other flights are departing as normal. I notice another flight to Dublin at 8.15am with a different flight number, the incoming flight is arriving from Southampton, is this related? Thanks.
​​​​​​
This morning's flight was cancelled due to a lack of available flightcrew. Unsure about last night's.

[Welshtraveller]

Thank you.

[OltonPete]

Why is the 7am flight to Dublin cancelled this morning? The flight was cancelled last night, can’t be fog as other flights are departing as normal. I notice another flight to Dublin at 8.15am with a different flight number, the incoming flight is arriving from Southampton, is this related? Thanks.

Possibly one aircraft short first thing as GLA-CWL last night ended up in BHX due to the fog and it only arrived back in Cardiff 9.35 this morning.

Pete

[Reversethrustset]

This morning's Dublin was cancelled yesterday, it was nothing to do with fog.

[PDXCWL45]

This morning's Dublin was cancelled yesterday, it was nothing to do with fog.
D
How do you know that,?

[Reversethrustset]

Let's just say I'm on the inside.

[PDXCWL45]

From today Ryanair will operate daily into Cardiff airport.
Faro on Mondays and Fridays
Barcelona on Tuesdays and Saturdays
Malta on Wednesday's and Sundays
Tenerife on Thursdays
Malaga on Monday's Wednesday's and Fridays from June.

[PDXCWL45]

There is a post on Cardiff Airports Instagram page saying that there will be exciting news coming from Ryanair tomorrow.

[sixchannel]

There is a post on Cardiff Airports Instagram page saying that there will be exciting news coming from Ryanair tomorrow.
It's going to be renamed Bristol - West.
Sorree - its its too quiet a day thus far.

[fanrailuk]

There is a post on Cardiff Airports Instagram page saying that there will be exciting news coming from Ryanair tomorrow.

It’ll just be the launch of the Malta route, surely?

[Letsflycwl]

Maybe it’s going to be a based aircraft......new year round destination.......new routes who knows but it’s good to see a new relationship between CWL and Ryanair !!

[PDXCWL45]

Maybe it’s going to be a based aircraft......new year round destination.......new routes who knows but it’s good to see a new relationship between CWL and Ryanair !!
A based aircraft would be fantastic!

[Letsflycwl]

A based aircraft would be fantastic!

Who knows what CWL have discussed with Ryanair but hopefully it’s going to be something good, they’ve increased their flights and destinations.

Another year round destination be good and as someone previously suggested PRG, KRK, ACE, MAD be good !!

[fjencl]

https://ukaviation.news/flybe-to-close-cardiff-doncaster-and-exeter-bases/

[caaardiff]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/cardiff-airport-flybe-leave-redundant-16068914?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wales_main

Nothing concrete in Deb Barbers statement about route losses, just potential job losses.
She does state the winter routes would be on sale soon but that doesn't specify if CWL is included.
Last time BE did this there was no forewarning to CWL, and judging by staff apparently finding out by Email, it's a pretty poor show from Flybe.

[CCFAIRPORT]

sad news ! but maybe good news for ryanair with a new base !

[PDXCWL45]

Devastating news! But the airport has bounced back from setbacks before and no doubt will again!

[nef]

sad news ! but maybe good news for ryanair with a new base !

I thought FR weren't keen on single aircraft bases? - and I'd be amazed if they based 2 at CWL.

[CCFAIRPORT]

I thought FR weren't keen on single aircraft bases? - and I'd be amazed if they based 2 at CWL.

Atfer i don ' t know ! it was just a supposition ! maybe they will announce 2 new routes and not a base ! just strange Flybe announce the closing of the base and ryanair press conference the same day

[FFHKG]

Isn't BOH a single aircraft base, so why not Cardiff?

[GAZMO]

CWL to BHD ( 2 X daily) is flown by Cardiff based aircraft. If route is going to continue then it will have to be with Belfast based aircraft. If so BHD probably going to lose other routes?

[davidjohnson6]

Is Cardiff after the end of October 2019
a) losing all Flybe routes
or
b) ceasing to be a base but keeping some routes with aircraft that will be based elsewhere
?

[caaardiff]

Just had this response from flybe-

Hi there, thanks for getting in touch. We are not stopping all flights from Cardiff. We will still offer a schedule but operated by Q400 aircraft and not jets. :) - Denny

[840]

If that's right this is a really badly managed fiasco. Nothing like making customers think that your flights are at risk to not pick up bookings.

[caaardiff]

CWLs announcement wasnt very detailed but signalled towards the release of winter flights still happening without specifically mentioning CWL.
Hopefully the social media team have got it right but would make sense to offer a solid press release detailing that.
So if correct...
- Crew base to close with pilots offered elsewhere and cabin crew redundant.
- talk elsewhere of some E75s due for delivery not being taken (rumour)
- routes to be operated by Q400, so likely from EDI, GLA and BHD bases. Hopefully they will pick up W patterns to CDG, JER and ORK. Schedules will need to see some change but hopefully still business friendly frequencies.
- Longer routes to go, such as FAO. Hopefully FR will increase frequency. 2 BE flights are nearly the equivalent of 1 FR flight in terms of seats.

[PDXCWL45]

I don't think the domestic operation is viable away based. Cardiff needs based aircraft to make it viable.

[Letsflycwl]

I see Eastern Airways have said their routes to VLY & NCL are affected by Flybe’s bombshell.

I bet CWL wished they stuck with CityJet now (yet they are not as strong as they used to be).

Surely DUB, EDI & CDG are key routes - maybe EI for DUB, LM for EDI and AF/Hop for CDG be good candidate replacements.

[PDXCWL45]

I see Eastern Airways have said their routes to VLY & NCL are affected by Flybe’s bombshell.

I bet CWL wished they stuck with CityJet now (yet they are not as strong as they used to be).

Surely DUB, EDI & CDG are key routes - maybe EI for DUB, LM for EDI and AF/Hop for CDG be good candidate replacements.

The Flybe deal was the correct thing to do the problem is Flybe as an airline aren't stable and it seems not changing to Q400s has proved damaging. If I was SOU EXT and BHD owners I'd be very worried.

[fjencl]

I see Eastern Airways have said their routes to VLY & NCL are affected by Flybe’s bombshell.

I bet CWL wished they stuck with CityJet now (yet they are not as strong as they used to be).

Surely DUB, EDI & CDG are key routes - maybe EI for DUB, LM for EDI and AF/Hop for CDG be good candidate replacements.


However Eastern Airways facebook page states "Eastern Airways can confirm that while a franchise partner to Flybe (left=https://www.facebook.com/Flybe/?__tn__=K-R&eid=ARB5SnvbCGgHHAsbCmuuXOKT3XUE0pAYKa_neqwDDU3h_SJ3UwYKwXpQ 5-aCmcEd4rcpn6Fq7u7xtJem&fref=mentions&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBaCk2ujGz_XmWlx9y-qe5pd6XqOMEKeEe1WqDaGu8I5sr0C7C3dZX3myalOZTGjZVG-Qx20QvKw9NZx3WCOvO2pO7FVBv9MI3hG5L6aw96GpHTnpCyh0kS60z81zZRl kKrC1kLjoSWOaOQvm9Ur3vYCLcjb1qdyk3I0D6ScBuma2MUBSlaOxBy7J2W0 CttosWsKc5LZPG9PqDQP9J8bBX5aXLMZ6ylkZRavzyl5hcZWWpuJiwgCOvbe KGsRM7KKQqnflBvVEKTQDbeMtJYSZddSjZdbEhLyRYf4NN0K4WkGqbb8MF8p I-_pngCk0yuD5tZGACXXBdPjCps), none of the bases or routes operated by Eastern Airways at Aberdeen, Newcastle, Durham, Humberside, Norwich, Cardiff or Leeds are affected by any changes flybe are making to their UK base establishment or network.

[Sharklet_321]

Any news on the Ryanair announcement?

Nobody should be looking to Flybe to grow their airport anymore. CWL should be talking to Jet2.

[PDXCWL45]

Any news on the Ryanair announcement?

Nobody should be looking to Flybe to grow their airport anymore. CWL should be talking to Jet2.
It was the launch of the new Malta route.
CWL doesn't need Jet2 it needs an Easyjet base.

[VickersVicount]

Hows QR DOH doing from CWL these days, saw some of the other UK routes had readonable monthly gains even with competition

[Sharklet_321]

PDXCWL45 but would easyJet ever do that? They don't operate BHX because it would eat into their BRS and LTN operation. So I personally have reservations about whether they would ever be open to doing a base from CWL. They may be tempted to do the odd GVA flight and perhaps a summer sun or single domestic (similar to what they do from BHX).

But hear me out on Jet2. They are doing really well in areas of the country where package holidays are sought after. I would respectfully assume that CWL would be just that kind of market.

[bycrewlgw]

PDXCWL45 but would easyJet ever do that? They don't operate BHX because it would eat into their BRS and LTN operation. So I personally have reservations about whether they would ever be open to doing a base from CWL. They may be tempted to do the odd GVA flight and perhaps a summer sun or single domestic (similar to what they do from BHX).

But hear me out on Jet2. They are doing really well in areas of the country where package holidays are sought after. I would respectfully assume that CWL would be just that kind of market.

more chance of BA coming back than EZY opening a base at CWL! LS would be a good fit at CWL as you say with the package side of things too.

[PDXCWL45]

PDXCWL45 but would easyJet ever do that? They don't operate BHX because it would eat into their BRS and LTN operation. So I personally have reservations about whether they would ever be open to doing a base from CWL. They may be tempted to do the odd GVA flight and perhaps a summer sun or single domestic (similar to what they do from BHX).

But hear me out on Jet2. They are doing really well in areas of the country where package holidays are sought after. I would respectfully assume that CWL would be just that kind of market.
Not a chance of getting Easyjet to Cardiff. Jet2 only do the holiday routes which is covered well. Cardiff needs an airline like Easyjet that is stable and will operate the domestic routes as well.

[southside bobby]

I would respectfully ask then where a previous poster would assume is NOT an area where package holidays are sought after regarding the success of Jet2.

[Severn]

But hear me out on Jet2. They are doing really well in areas of the country where package holidays are sought after. I would respectfully assume that CWL would be just that kind of market.

No doubt they are doing well in other areas of the country and CWL would be the right market, but surely with TUI based year round (a third based B738 this year) and TCX summer-based (upgrade to a A321 this year), wouldn't Jet2 be providing the same type of operation to the same destinations (within reason) as these other operators?

With RYR also growing at the airport, I'm not sure CWL needs a third predominantly holiday airline which serves mostly Mediterranean destinations (which are already well served by TUI, TCX, RYR and VLG) plus a few city break destinations? I'm almost certain if Jet2 arrived you would see either TCX move out, and/or a reduction in TUIs base.

Currently, the only UK airports that have TUI, TCX and EXS all based are MAN, STN, BHX, EMA, NCL, GLA and BFS - all of which handle (roughly) 5million+ passengers per year. Last year CWL handled around 1.6million passengers in comparison. This does not mean it won't happen, but is currently not happening in the industry.
Personally I think a few more Ryanair destinations would be best for CWL to compliment what they have on offer at their BRS base.

[PDXCWL45]

CAA Stats February 2019
78,061 passengers used the terminal in February no change on 2018. The rolling year was 1,582,000 passengers up 7.1% on 2018.

Top 10 routes
1. Amsterdam 11,876
2. Tenerife South 7093
3. Dublin 6913
4. Edinburgh 6442
5. Alicante 6120
6. Doha 5435
7. Belfast City 5408
8. Paris CDG 4470
9. Rome FCO 3951
10. Malaga 3828

[Sharklet_321]

Not sure what the performance above for Doha means for load factor but it doesn't look very strong. Amsterdam is going gang busters!

Will CWL be pitching for Emirates 330 neo aircraft (much more suitable size) once they get them as Emirates to Dubai would command much stronger demand than Qatar to Doha.

[PDXCWL45]

Not sure what the performance above for Doha means for load factor but it doesn't look very strong. Amsterdam is going gang busters!

Will CWL be pitching for Emirates 330 neo aircraft (much more suitable size) once they get them as Emirates to Dubai would command much stronger demand than Qatar to Doha.

If Emirates wanted to operate from Cardiff they would've done already. As for the performance of Doha February is disappointing but the route is in the first year and it will take time to mature, from May will be an indication of it's future in what sort of growth there is. I'd have thought though at the moment the airport won't be concerned about it but will be far more concerned about replacing the routes lost when Flybe pull out of at the end of October.

[bycrewlgw]

If Emirates wanted to operate from Cardiff they would've done already. As for the performance of Doha February is disappointing but the route is in the first year and it will take time to mature, from May will be an indication of it's future in what sort of growth there is. I'd have thought though at the moment the airport won't be concerned about it but will be far more concerned about replacing the routes lost when Flybe pull out of at the end of October.

Any suggestions yet of what routes may be retained? I know we don’t have crystal balls but rumours can be accurate on here! :-)

[PDXCWL45]

Any suggestions yet of what routes may be retained? I know we don’t have crystal balls but rumours can be accurate on here! :-)

Haven't heard anything but i'd have thought Dublin, Edinburgh, Belfast and Jersey will remain, i'm sure though on Dublin, Edinburgh and Belfast the frequencies will know doubt be a lot less than now and no doubt no early morning flights either, Paris, Rome, Glasgow and Verona are probably maybe's. I do wonder if Dublin and Rome would interest Ryanair? And Paris Air France?

[Letsflycwl]

I’d of thought CDG be a good keep for Flybe in a “W” pattern with another base as Paris loads have been good and steady.

Air France would be good but then mailing AF smallest aircraft is the A318 so it would have to go to Hop in that case.

[PDXCWL45]

I’d of thought CDG be a good keep for Flybe in a “W” pattern with another base as Paris loads have been good and steady.

Air France would be good but then mailing AF smallest aircraft is the A318 so it would have to go to Hop in that case.
Problem with that is they'll have to fit it into the schedule of other airports and you could ask is the route important enough? Cardiff wasn't important enough to kept as a base so is it important to use aircraft from other bases to operate 10 weekly flights to Paris. For the airport Air France/HOP! might be a better option. New airline plus its a flag carrier.

[Letsflycwl]

Yeah agree there, Air France / HOP would be a great airline to get back in, it’s been a long time since Air France operates their own schedules with the SF3 and ATR.

Lets hope CWL secure that route, also Rome, Madrid, Venice would be fit for Ryanair but who knows

[caaardiff]

Problem with that is they'll have to fit it into the schedule of other airports and you could ask is the route important enough? Cardiff wasn't important enough to kept as a base so is it important to use aircraft from other bases to operate 10 weekly flights to Paris. For the airport Air France/HOP! might be a better option. New airline plus its a flag carrier.

Jerry, you seem to be forgetting that Flybe are a business. It might be better to rephrase "Cardiff wasn't important enough" to "Cardiff wasn't financially viable enough"
If Paris made money, which i'd be surprised if it didn't, they will hopefully find a way to make it work. My thoughts is that it would likely have to be a GLA based aircraft so not to affect the timings on the return sector. GLA-CWL-CDG-CWL-GLA, all operated as separate flights rather than split like before.
If it was EDI/BHD based, then it would mean no early morning return flights to either of those bases.
EZY with double daily flights from BRS would be one to watch though that might affect this decision.

[Letsflycwl]

Bring back Air Wales and their ATR fleet, with proper management, reduced fleet, key destinations and backing !!

[PDXCWL45]

Jerry, you seem to be forgetting that Flybe are a business. It might be better to rephrase "Cardiff wasn't important enough" to "Cardiff wasn't financially viable enough"
If Paris made money, which i'd be surprised if it didn't, they will hopefully find a way to make it work. My thoughts is that it would likely have to be a GLA based aircraft so not to affect the timings on the return sector. GLA-CWL-CDG-CWL-GLA, all operated as separate flights rather than split like before.
If it was EDI/BHD based, then it would mean no early morning return flights to either of those bases.
EZY with double daily flights from BRS would be one to watch though that might affect this decision.
No one knows how profitable the base is but surely Flybe should be questioned if they can't make CWL financially viable considering it's an airport that would no doubt support that operation in various ways. Also we are assuming that Flybe will actually continue to operate into CWL after October. Also what makes the Flybe operation more financially viable non based? The basing deal which no doubt had certain discounts will no doubt be void so its possible Flybe will face new costs. The operation wasn't viable 6 years ago so what's changed?
The reality is whether it's profitable doesn't matter the brutal truth is to Flybe CEOs, BA CEOs, EZY CEOs, Virgin CEOs and even FR CEOs Cardiff and Wales is a backwater to airlines like that.
The winter schedule will be very interesting to see whenever they finally release it.

[Reversethrustset]

I'm not sure people are getting it. CWL is not a profitable base for Flybe even with government funding, which on the face of it isn't a massive amount. The main reason for the closure is a combination of poor returns and the ejets. Flybe, or Connect, or whatever you want to call them nowadays clearly want shot of all ejets, I've seen the operating costs, they are staggering, so with the ejets gone that means routes out of CWL that realistically can't be flown anymore are FCO, FAO, VRN, VCE, TXL, MUC and MXP. That leaves JER, DUB, CDG, EDI, GLA, ORK and BHD (maybe I've missed the odd one). These routes mean they can operate them out of base and it'll be far cheaper because to have a crew base on two aircraft would cost in the region of £200k per crew in base and you'd need to run a 2 aircraft base with at least 5.5 crews per airframe, do the maths. Why spend that money when you can operate the routes from already established bases that'll cost you nothing extra. Also regarding the deal, there's no way on this earth Flybe did a deal with the airport that they couldn't easily get out of.

[ATNotts]

I'm not sure people are getting it. CWL is not a profitable base for Flybe even with government funding, which on the face of it isn't a massive amount. The main reason for the closure is a combination of poor returns and the ejets. Flybe, or Connect, or whatever you want to call them nowadays clearly want shot of all ejets, I've seen the operating costs, they are staggering, so with the ejets gone that means routes out of CWL that realistically can't be flown anymore are FCO, FAO, VRN, VCE, TXL, MUC and MXP. That leaves JER, DUB, CDG, EDI, GLA, ORK and BHD (maybe I've missed the odd one). These routes mean they can operate them out of base and it'll be far cheaper because to have a crew base on two aircraft would cost in the region of £200k per crew in base and you'd need to run a 2 aircraft base with at least 5.5 crews per airframe, do the maths. Why spend that money when you can operate the routes from already established bases that'll cost you nothing extra. Also regarding the deal, there's no way on this earth Flybe did a deal with the airport that they couldn't easily get out of, how do I know this? Send me a pm and I'll tell you.

That injects a dose of realism!

However, I'd suggest that MXP and VRN are feasible - some years ago I did BHX-BGY in a Dash 8 and it wasn't that much of an ordeal, so MXP should be possible as well as TXL. Whether the routes you have mentioned make a profit or not I don't know, but I get the definite impression from your posting record that you know a deal more than you could possibly post on a public forum. I think that key to the new strategy is to operate the airline as a profitable enterprise for the group, not as a some sort of social service.

[PDXCWL45]

I'm not sure people are getting it. CWL is not a profitable base for Flybe even with government funding, which on the face of it isn't a massive amount. The main reason for the closure is a combination of poor returns and the ejets. Flybe, or Connect, or whatever you want to call them nowadays clearly want shot of all ejets, I've seen the operating costs, they are staggering, so with the ejets gone that means routes out of CWL that realistically can't be flown anymore are FCO, FAO, VRN, VCE, TXL, MUC and MXP. That leaves JER, DUB, CDG, EDI, GLA, ORK and BHD (maybe I've missed the odd one). These routes mean they can operate them out of base and it'll be far cheaper because to have a crew base on two aircraft would cost in the region of £200k per crew in base and you'd need to run a 2 aircraft base with at least 5.5 crews per airframe, do the maths. Why spend that money when you can operate the routes from already established bases that'll cost you nothing extra. Also regarding the deal, there's no way on this earth Flybe did a deal with the airport that they couldn't easily get out of.
Ok then explain to me why it's profitable now to run the routes non based when it wasn't 6 years? What's changed? Or will be get Flybe doing the same as they did in 2013 in a few years time.
Also Flybe operate other small bases ie Isle of Man and Newquay and Aberdeen and Glasgow yet a 2 to 3 Q400 aircraft base at Cardiff isn't viable like them?
As a customer what the Flybe withdrawal means is that Flybe will become less of an option for domestic routes especially and Easyjet will become much more of an option.
What I do hope is that the airport will be able to get other airlines on many of the routes that will be lost to minimise the damage.

[PDXCWL45]

I'm not sure people are getting it. CWL is not a profitable base for Flybe even with government funding, which on the face of it isn't a massive amount. The main reason for the closure is a combination of poor returns and the ejets. Flybe, or Connect, or whatever you want to call them nowadays clearly want shot of all ejets, I've seen the operating costs, they are staggering, so with the ejets gone that means routes out of CWL that realistically can't be flown anymore are FCO, FAO, VRN, VCE, TXL, MUC and MXP. That leaves JER, DUB, CDG, EDI, GLA, ORK and BHD (maybe I've missed the odd one). These routes mean they can operate them out of base and it'll be far cheaper because to have a crew base on two aircraft would cost in the region of £200k per crew in base and you'd need to run a 2 aircraft base with at least 5.5 crews per airframe, do the maths. Why spend that money when you can operate the routes from already established bases that'll cost you nothing extra. Also regarding the deal, there's no way on this earth Flybe did a deal with the airport that they couldn't easily get out of.

Do you think that if there was no APD on routes to and from Wales, Flybe would've kept the base open with Q400s?

[SWBKCB]

Flybe, or Connect, or whatever you want to call them nowadays clearly want shot of all ejets, I've seen the operating costs, they are staggering

Also regarding the deal, there's no way on this earth Flybe did a deal with the airport that they couldn't easily get out of.

Hmmm - so the airline that bought a fleet of a/c too expensive for their network will have struck a cute deal they can easily get out of?

[Reversethrustset]

However, I'd suggest that MXP and VRN are feasible - some years ago I did BHX-BGY in a Dash 8 and it wasn't that much of an ordeal, so MXP should be possible as well as TXL.

I think as I said, you have to look at what is realistic and realistically those routes, even though they can be done, are not very realistic on a Q400. MXP especially so due to Alpine Driftdown but also routes over 2hrs on a Q400 would be very selective.

Ok then explain to me why it's profitable now to run the routes non based when it wasn't 6 years? What's changed? Or will be get Flybe doing the same as they did in 2013 in a few years time.

I didn't really say it's profitable to run the routes non based, I was saying that they have that option should they make money. The stark reality is they may not make money even using out of base aircraft and you'll see them dropped if that's the case. I know that BHD is of particular concern, however it may continue,it may not. The winter schedule when released will be the defining teller.

Also Flybe operate other small bases ie Isle of Man and Newquay and Aberdeen and Glasgow yet a 2 to 3 Q400 aircraft base at Cardiff isn't viable like them?

The simple answer is no, clearly they've done the maths and it doesn't work else the base would just swap to Q400s. ABZ is a very profitable route for flybe, particularly the LHR routes so again without stating the obvious it's all down to economics. At the end of the day there could be some profitable routes out of the current list even on the ejets, but there's not enough profitable routes in it's current guise to run CWL as either an ejet or Q400 base, that much is obvious.

As a customer what the Flybe withdrawal means is that Flybe will become less of an option for domestic routes especially and Easyjet will become much more of an option.
What I do hope is that the airport will be able to get other airlines on many of the routes that will be lost to minimise the damage.

Amen to that, but looking at the CAA stats can you see the lost routes being viable options for airlines that will have to place more seating capacity on routes that are quite thin, especially for 156+ seat jets? Who knows.

Hmmm - so the airline that bought a fleet of a/c too expensive for their network will have struck a cute deal they can easily get out of?

Remember the history behind the airline. Mr French struck deals with Embraer (or the leasing company, take your pick) that was a) unrealistic and b) virtually impossible to get out of, this was the case for the 175s and for the 195s the deal was literally impossible to get out of. Bye bye Mr French, hello Mr Hammad. Mr Hammad took a look at the lease deals and said "wtf?". It was Mr French who bough the aircraft and Mr Hammad who then struck the deal with the knowledge of what Mr French tied Flybe into for 13 years +.

[PDXCWL45]

I think as I said, you have to look at what is realistic and realistically those routes, even though they can be done, are not very realistic on a Q400. MXP especially so due to Alpine Driftdown but also routes over 2hrs on a Q400 would be very selective.



I didn't really say it's profitable to run the routes non based, I was saying that they have that option should they make money. The stark reality is they may not make money even using out of base aircraft and you'll see them dropped if that's the case. I know that BHD is of particular concern, however it may continue,it may not. The winter schedule when released will be the defining teller.
Amen to that, but looking at the CAA stats can you see the lost routes being viable options for airlines that will have to place more seating capacity on routes that are quite thin, especially for 156+ seat jets? Who knows.
.

Interesting that you say BHD is a concern as i was told it's always been Flybe's most profitable route out of CWL. Just for context with BHD over an extra 30,000 passengers use the route compared to when it was daily it's currently 11 weekly.
As for the stats this is what Flybe carried out of CWL in 2018 excluding Guernsey, Newcastle and Anglesey as they are operated by other airlines. The seasonal routes have * next to them.
Belfast City 70,746
Edinburgh 101,671
Glasgow 33,261
Jersey 20,095
Paris CDG 75,402
Chambery 2709*
Berlin TXL 14,801
Dusseldorf 3235*
Munich 15,739
Cork 14,589
Dublin 104,890
Milan MXP 21,445
Rome FCO 17,584
Venice 8467*
Verona 8180*
Geneva 3213*
Faro 56,290 is shared with Ryanair who operate in the summer so for this exercise i'll guestimate 30,000 for Flybe on this route which is close to 2016s figure.
Rougly 540,000 people used Flybe from Cardiff in 2018 (i've allowed some discrepancy for rugby flights on Paris and Dublin).
That's roughly each aircraft carrying 180,000 passengers a year.

Hopefully those numbers will be attractive to airlines like Ryanair and Air France.

[Reversethrustset]

Possibly with BHD it is a case of it's not profitable as an ejet operation, if and when it swaps back to a Q400 it may well be but I know the route was losing money as an ejet route.

Using the 180,000 pax per year per airframe figure you quote, if you are running for arguments sake a 180 seat aircraft then that aircraft would only run 3 x per week at those loads to carry those passengers per year. Is that enough to attract carriers? I don't know because clearly that's 10-15 routes in total. Other airlines will look at route specific figures rather than a collective so that'll bring the figures per route crashing down which doesn't make a route viable for such a large aircraft, however, they may cherry pick the best ones and run them a couple of times per week, we can only hope.

[PDXCWL45]

Possibly with BHD it is a case of it's not profitable as an ejet operation, if and when it swaps back to a Q400 it may well be but I know the route was losing money as an ejet route.

Using the 180,000 pax per year per airframe figure you quote, if you are running for arguments sake a 180 seat aircraft then that aircraft would only run 3 x per week at those loads to carry those passengers per year. Is that enough to attract carriers? I don't know because clearly that's 10-15 routes in total. Other airlines will look at route specific figures rather than a collective so that'll bring the figures per route crashing down which doesn't make a route viable for such a large aircraft, however, they may cherry pick the best ones and run them a couple of times per week, we can only hope.
I think it would depend on the airline as well. An airline like Ryanair or Easyjet would have a much bigger pull than Flybe so could get much bigger numbers.
The problem I see now is that Flybe will revert back to the props which for many will put them off flying with Flybe due to many peoples perception of props especially with the option of Easyjet over the bridge. That's assuming Flybe don't drop CWL altogether and I'm actually wondering if that might be the better option in the long run. It may be better for both parties if Flybe leaves altogether as I also think any trust between the two parties especially from the airport will be broken. Yes it's business but you still need some sort of trust between parties to work together effectively.

[Sharklet_321]

Agreed - the way Flybe has gone about this by releasing 'base closures' is all wrong, the media think the airline is pulling out completely. Such a big no no in airline PR to announce you are closing a base if you actually mean you are converting it to W-pattern flying. They are losing so many passengers across their entire network. Some people think they have gone bust already (people getting confused with the news reports of FLYBmi) and this negative news just forces people to look elsewhere.

[PDXCWL45]

Instead of having a base I wonder if the airport could persuade Flybe to overnight an aircraft for BHD and EDI at least to operate a early morning departure.

[bycrewlgw]

Instead of having a base I wonder if the airport could persuade Flybe to overnight an aircraft for BHD and EDI at least to operate a early morning departure.

clutching at straws I know but they’re closing the JET base but could there be potential for a prop base?

[Reversethrustset]

No, the base is closing, pilots will be directionally moved and cabin crew are up for redundancy

[PDXCWL45]

No, the base is closing, pilots will be directionally moved and cabin crew are up for redundancy
But would that have happened if APD was devolved to the Welsh government and the government reduced it to zero?

In the end it's a massive setback for the airport but not the crippling blow that a few years ago it might have been. With an expanded base from TUI and Thomas Cook and KLM adding more seats with more appearances of the E190 and interest from Ryanair the lost passenger numbers hopefully eventually will be made up and it might mean that the airport will have to change its focus to more leisure type routes to the Mediterranean and beyond.

[Reversethrustset]

The honest answer is who knows? APD is obviously a government tax which the passenger has to pay so the question that has to be asked is "if there was no APD which subsequently brought down ticket prices would that attract more passengers to Flybe's routes?" Because without extra passengers APD is irrelevant to the financial accounts of Flybe.

[SWBKCB]

But would that have happened if APD was devolved to the Welsh government and the government reduced it to zero?

I'd have a look at the news as to what might happen if the Welsh government reduced APD to zero

[MerchantVenturer]

There is no certainty that an airine would reduce its fares if APD was reduced, or zeroed or axed. It might keep them broadly as they were but retain the APD equivalent in order to improve yield instead of handing it to government.

In recent weeks the Westminster Welsh Home Affairs Select Committee has been taking evidence at various sessions - all available to view online - regarding APD devolution to Wales. They've heard evidence, both written and oral, from government ministers (Westminster and the Welsh Government), airport representatives (including CWL, BRS and MAN), airlines, taxation and travel 'experts' amongst others.

Ryanair said that APD is hampering its development at CWL, although I fancy they would say that about many airports as reduction/abolition of aviation tax is something the airline management has championed for many years.

As to the overall effects of APD abolition in Wales (effectively at CWL as it's the only airport of any size in the country), the committee was faced with the conflictng conclusions of two reports, neither neutral as one was commissoned by the Welsh Government and the other by Bristol Airport.

The Welsh Affairs Committee currently consists of ten Westminster MPs, nine representing Welsh constituencies and the other a constituency on the edge of Bristol. Having watched most if not all the evidence-taking sessions, it was apparent that one or two of the 'Welsh' MPs seem to have some misgivings about the idea of APD devolution: one was concerned about climate change and at least one of the others who is from North Wales wondered what would be in it for people living in that area given that most use MAN and LPL.

Nevertheless, I think it likely that a consensus will emerge in favour of APD devolution when the committee reports its findings which doesn't mean to say the Westminster Government will act on them.

[SWBKCB]

As well as a fund raising measure (and if APD is cut in Wales, that money will then need to come from somewhere else), APD is meant to have an environmental impact in reducing carbon emmissions.

Given the current debate on climate change, is a tax cut encouraging air travel really something that politicians are going to support - especially if the benefits are kept by the airlines and not passed to the customer?

[PDXCWL45]

I'd have a look at the news as to what might happen if the Welsh government reduced APD to zeroon

I doubt many of those protestors know even where Wales is let alone Cardiff. Also if they wanted to target countries with low APD why are there not demonstrations in Dublin?
APD would come off the block grant but i'd have thought the Welsh government would see it as an investment in Wales by attracting new airlines and routes and in the Flybe case keeping an airline to continue to operate routes and continue to provide people with jobs in the area. Also lets not forget APD has already been devolved to Scotland and long haul to Northern Ireland with the treasury looking into devoling short haul APD to Northern Ireland as well.
My question is more just me wondering out aloud in whether it would've made a difference in their decision and turned an apparently non profitable base into a profitable one in which they would've kept the base in place.

[caaardiff]

Reducing APD would no doubt have a positive effect on the bottom line for Flybe (and others).
For example, and feel free to correct me if I'm working this out wrong; lets say Flybe's average load factor at CWL is 75% (66 passengers), and lets say 10 of them are under 16 so not eligible to pay APD, so on average 56 passengers per flight paying £13 APD.
Each aircraft doing 6 sectors (3 return flights) per day.
56 passengers x£13 = £728 per flight
728 x 6 sectors = £4368 per aircraft per day
£4368 x 3 based aircraft = £13104 in APD alone per day.
Multiply that by 363 days of full travel per year = £4,756,752
Note: This is based on E75 capacity.

It's worth noting that the government is forecasting to earn 3.5Billion from APD in 2018/19

[caaardiff]

These are the passenger figures from the CAA 2018 stats. It's interesting to see that CWL carries by far more passengers on these routes than at DSA and the home base EXT with the potential loss of JER, DUB and CDG due to being non based routes.
BHD - CWL 70784 DSA 16766 (EXT 36722)
EDI - CWL 102102 (EXT 48076)
JER - CWL 20095 DSA 33032 (EXT 41240)
DUB - CWL 108275 DSA 33659 (EXT 35587)
CDG - CWL 77676 DSA 36181 (EXT 50016)

[PDXCWL45]

Makes you wonder how profitable Exeter is?

[PDXCWL45]

So it looks like that the new 3rd based TUI aircraft will be from ASL ASL France. Will be interesting to see if its a 700 or 800. I'd have thought that the cabin crew would be TUI and flight crew ASL similar to TCX.

[Letsflycwl]

I’m under the impression ASL Airlines France only operate B737-300 and B737-700 aircraft, they don’t have the B737-800 is their fleet.

[PDXCWL45]

I’m under the impression ASL Airlines France only operate B737-300 and B737-700 aircraft, they don’t have the B737-800 is their fleet.
I know its only Wikipedia but it says ASL group have 2 800s

[caaardiff]

So it looks like that the new 3rd based TUI aircraft will be from ASL ASL France. Will be interesting to see if its a 700 or 800. I'd have thought that the cabin crew would be TUI and flight crew ASL similar to TCX.

It's a short term lease to cover Max shortfalls throughout the fleet. It's likely to be a full ASL crew compliment to avoid the cost and hassle of training TUI crew. Wouldn't be surprised if a TUI crew member is placed on board as a customer service representation and to utilise the crew.

[JobsaGoodun]

These are the passenger figures from the CAA 2018 stats. It's interesting to see that CWL carries by far more passengers on these routes than at DSA and the home base EXT with the potential loss of JER, DUB and CDG due to being non based routes.
BHD - CWL 70784 DSA 16766 (EXT 36722)
EDI - CWL 102102 (EXT 48076)
JER - CWL 20095 DSA 33032 (EXT 41240)
DUB - CWL 108275 DSA 33659 (EXT 35587)
CDG - CWL 77676 DSA 36181 (EXT 50016)

However, BHDEXT is at most single daily DH4 against double daily E75 on CWL, as is EDI, suggesting that yield is likely better at EXT. Any airline can fill an aircraft with £20 tickets...it’s filling it and making money that’s important. What’s clear is that Flybe can’t do this with an E75 based in CWL at the level necessary, even with the support offered by CWL and by the Welsh Gvnt. If they could, they wouldn’t be closing the base.