LUTON History and Nostalgia [Archive] - Page 14

cj241101

29th Jun 2018, 16:08

With the current flights being operated by Travel Service, Alba Star, Sun Express and Freebird, the airport has more foreign operators than it has had for a few years. Here's a reminder of past operators, mostly long gone if not forgotten:-

https://i.imgur.com/vCgz6pW.jpg
EC-CPI 20/8/83

https://i.imgur.com/jYZfVQi.jpg
OY-APV 20/9/81. In for a check but operated by Maersk summer 1977 and 1978.

https://i.imgur.com/maSITnM.jpg
EC-CTU 25/11/82

https://i.imgur.com/yvljand.jpg?1
EC-BSD 29/5/82

https://i.imgur.com/mp1v1GN.jpg?1
YU-AGG 10/8/79. J.A.T were a regular operator for many years from 1979 until the war in the Balkans, but only used the 707 in 1979.

Mostly they used the DC-9:-
https://i.imgur.com/5X1LCY1.jpg
YU-AJK 30/10/81

Tunis Air operated weekly flights with 737-200's during summer 1983 and 1984:-
https://i.imgur.com/4kQ3GQa.jpg
TS-IOC 13/5/83

Finnair operated on behalf of Kar Air for several years using a wide variety of aircraft types, including DC-9-40's:-
https://i.imgur.com/RwlDZS0.jpg
OH-LNE 2/6/82

plus the occasional DC-10:-
https://i.imgur.com/xFGQInW.jpg
OH-LHA 3/7/80. Only Finnair DC-10 to visit until summer 1989 when they were a weekly occurrence

Kar Air also used their own aircraft:-
https://i.imgur.com/NqtAe2n.jpg
OH-LFZ 3/1/86

https://i.imgur.com/2EljTHR.jpg
OH-LAA 12/7/90

More to follow

dc9-32

30th Jun 2018, 05:50

The first loadsheet I ever completed was for an Aviaco DC9 (possibly hence my name on here).....

I remember the crew had to record the wind speed and direction on the loadsheet before sign-off and on this flight, the Captain licked his finger and held his hand out of the cockpit window then wrote something on the loadsheet. He knew I was new to the job but naive I was not :=

Those photos from cj just evoke so many memories, and every single one a good one. Yes it was cr@p when it rained or was freezing cold, but in the summer months, just being outside doing a job I loved was just perfect. I worked with a great bunch too. There always seemed to be a "them and us" stigma with the Monarch and Britannia ramp staff. It was worse in the terminal where Britannia girls wouldn't even look at you let alone say hello !

The visiting foreign airline crews were so hospitable back in those days. As soon as the punters were off, they would invariably offer the dispatcher a drink of tea, coffee, juice etc. I got to know a regular Aviaco crew member quite well over the summer months one year, so much so she offered me more than a drink :eek: It was deemed rude not to accept you understand.....

In those days we were respected by crews and management alike and I know I felt proud at the end of a shift knowing I had completed another days work safely. These days, people are on zero hour contracts, hand out loadsheets like they are worthless pieces of paper and get no respect from their management.

I had just under 5 excellent years on the ramp at LTN and a couple of years in the terminal prior to that. Every single day was a new day offering a new challenge and locked in a new memory.

cj keep the photos coming and maybe PM me if you know where the other ex OM girls/boys are these days.

cj241101

30th Jun 2018, 09:25

There always seemed to be a "them and us" stigma with the Monarch and Britannia ramp staff. It was worse in the terminal where Britannia girls wouldn't even look at you let alone say hello !
In fairness to the Britannia staff, the "them and us" approach could be blamed on the training which no doubt stemmed from the Britannia management. One of the Monarch girls I used to have coffee with decided the Britannia grass was greener and joined them. Drummed into her and the other trainees was the strict instruction that Britannia staff were not allowed to be seen "fraternising" with other airport staff in public, including staff from Monarch. Our coffee breaks continued but were restricted to the Britannia staff restaurant.

dc-9-32 I have sent you a PM

cj241101

30th Jun 2018, 11:02

more photos

https://i.imgur.com/x8bma7D.jpg
YR-BCM 12/4/80. Tarom 1-11's first made an appearance with a weekly flight summer 1979.

https://i.imgur.com/9t4df9T.jpg
I-ATIQ 26/3/83. Only remember a short series on Saturdays March-April 1983, from & to Milan-MXP.

https://i.imgur.com/nUWlR2F.jpg
TF-VLB, TF-VLC 17/6/78. Mainly in for maintenance, Eagle Air used to put passengers on the maintenance flights from Keflavik IIRC. VLB had just returned from lease to Air Malta hence the colours. VLC had just returned from lease to Kenya Airways, still in part Kenya airways colours.

https://i.imgur.com/5gHTypU.jpg
YU-ANC 10/5/82 This aircraft was destined for Republic Airlines but was never delivered to them, but wore their colours during summer 1982.

https://i.imgur.com/wxMxyWp.jpg
9H-ABB 14/6/83. Air Malta first operated to Luton summer 1977 with Boeing 720B's leased from P.I.A., then with 737-200's leased from Transavia Holland summer 1981 until they acquired their own 737's summer 1983. Their 720's still made an appearance, such as this one in 1984:-

https://i.imgur.com/qos8405.jpg
9H-AAO 3/7/84

Balair operated a DC-6 into Luton in the summers of 1967-1970, early hours of Saturday mornings. Their only subsequent regular flights were with MD-80's in 1987, mostly operated by Swissair aircraft, although their own aircraft also made an appearance:-

https://i.imgur.com/tdcBKTi.jpg
HB-INR 31/8/87

https://i.imgur.com/BsAqBaL.jpg
HB-INK 17/4/87

Also in 1987 although probably on diversion, possibly from Southend, was this Canafrica MD-83:-

https://i.imgur.com/2i0lgah.jpg
EC-ECO 30/8/87

They visited the previous year, when they were known as CTA, with a DC-8-61:-
https://i.imgur.com/UOBoidV.jpg
EC-DZA 29/10/86

Another DC-8 operator was Rich International who did flights to Orlando summer 1988, making a fuel stop in Shannon. Flights switched to Stansted for summer 1989.

https://i.imgur.com/wHlc58n.jpg
N1808E 6/8/88.

Also in 1988 Austrian made a welcome return with a weekly charter to Vienna using MD-87's. They originally began a late night Sunday flight in November 1975 with their DC-9-32's, then with their DC-9-51's early 1976 and MD-81's in 1981-82.

https://i.imgur.com/3xx2sX2.jpg
OE-LMK 6/6/88

TCU

30th Jun 2018, 11:07

cj, Thanks for another batch of proper airliner pictures. As well as evoking fond memories, your images have the ability to trigger the smell of kerosene, the clatter of baggage trucks and the shrill whine of proper jet engines

Aviaco and of course Spantax were as much a part of the 1980's UK holiday makers travel experience as Dan Air, Monarch and Britannia. I managed a pair of Aviaco DC-9 flights to and from Majorca in 1983 as a spotty 18 year old on my first solo trip abroad.

Love the Ryanair 1-11 under the tail of the Kar Air A300.Who would have possibly guessed back in 1990 what was to emerge from that company.

YVRLTN

1st Jul 2018, 01:27

Whose is the Britannia / CL44 (?) with the B on the tail behind the Inex Adria MD81?

YVRLTN

1st Jul 2018, 01:47

Heres the first recorded log I have from LTN, lunch time 14.08.95 (I have lost my logs before then....)

UR-78755 ... Ilyushin IL-76MD ... Air Ukraine / Air Foyle
N916SJ ... Lockheed L100-30 Hercules ... Southern Air Transport
G-SBEA ... Boeing 737-204 (ADV) ... Sabre Airways
N7788 ... Canadair Challenger 601 ... CAPX Transfer
G-JEET ... Reims Cessna FA152 ... Luton Flight Training
G-BYAW ... Boeing 757-204 ... Britannia Airways
G-MANJ ... BAe ATP ... Manx Airlines
G-BUTZ ... Dornier Do.228-202K... Suckling Airways
G-OBMM ... Boeing 737-4Y0 ... British Midland Airways
G-HOPE ... Beech F33A Bonanza ... Hurn Aviation [Bournemouth]
G-BIOB ... Reims Cessna F172P ... Aerofilms [Elstree]
N757ML ... Canadair Challenger 601 ... never positively ID'd
G-OBAL ... Mooney M20J ... Britannia Flying Club
EI-CJD ... Boeing 737-204 (ADV) ... Ryanair
G-MANC ... BAe ATP ... Manx Airlines
OO-DHO ... Boeing 727-31C (F) ... European Air Transport (DHL)
G-SIZL ... Bell 206B JetRanger III ... BLS Aviation
G-COIN ... Bell 206B JetRanger II ... C. Sarno
G-JONI ... Reims Cessna FA152 ... Luton Flight Training
G-MFHL ... Ribinson R22B Beta ... MFH Ltd
F-GHXK ... Boeing 737-2A1 (ADV) ... Emerald Airways
VR-CBQ ... Boeing 727-212 ... Aravco [LHR]
N555KC ... Grumman Gulfstream III ... Odin Aviation [Burbank CA]
N410US ... BAe 125-800 ... Raytheon Aircraft
N11AB ... Cessna 551 Citation II/SP ... Heliair Aviation
N9026 ... BAe 125-1000A ... never ID'd
N688CP (??) maybe a Jet Commander or Westwind
G-BYAK ... Boeing 757-28A ... Britannia Airways
N125XX ... BAe 126-700A Surewings / Ambrion Aviation
G-BKUY ... BAe Jetstream 3102 ... BAe PLC - pretty sure this operated for some short lived airline
N615X ... Gulfstream IV ?? never ID's
N988TT ... PA-34 Seneca ?? - never ID'd
VH-NCP ... Gulfstream IV ... News Corp [SYD]
A6-ESH ... Boeing 737-2W8 ... Sharjah Royal Flight
N243FJ ... Dassault Falcon 50 ... TRW Inc
G-BUXT ... Dornier Do.228-202K ... Suckling Airways
G-ATHR ... Piper PA-28 Cherokee 180 ... Britannia Flying Club

DaveReidUK

1st Jul 2018, 06:25

Whose is the Britannia / CL44 (?) with the B on the tail behind the Inex Adria MD81?

Not a "B", it's an "R":

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/400x268/g_brac_usa_791200_pc_6f9e1e2611d232739c8f676966d4223f12277ac 4.jpg

cj241101

1st Jul 2018, 07:43

YVRLTN thanks for posting your list. Here's some updates from my anorak log:-
14/8/95:- Westwind was N868CP and G3 N6513X. N980TT a Gulfstream 1 was present. Jetstream G-BKUY was in BAe house colours and titles, flying with an "Air Foyle Executive" sticker. The Challenger was N757MC. N9026 was a 125-1000B c/no 259026.

The Redcoat aircraft behind the Inex Adria would have been their CL-44 G-BRED which was their sole aircraft by summer 1982.

Here's some photos:-
https://i.imgur.com/Fn3GKFZ.jpg
G-BUXT 22/12/94. Leased from Dornier hence the titles.

https://i.imgur.com/S2kzx8z.jpg
VR-CBQ 13/8/95. Regular for many years.

https://i.imgur.com/4OPbAQD.jpg
F-GHXK 11/8/95. Leased from Europe Aero Service by Emerald European but only ever operated 1 flight for them, sat at Luton for 3 weeks before returning to Toulouse on 31/8/95.

https://i.imgur.com/qo13y9R.jpg
VH-NCP 15/8/95.

https://i.imgur.com/kM3ATIz.jpg
N22320 22/6/94. Never managed a photo of N980TT, this is the best I can do in its previous guise.

https://i.imgur.com/jRFlAEN.jpg
A6-ESH 24/7/85. Another regular for many years.

https://i.imgur.com/gvEwYSm.jpg
OO-DHO 31/7/94.

pppdrive

1st Jul 2018, 07:49

DC9-32 have sent you a PM

pppdrive

1st Jul 2018, 07:51

DC9-32 Have sent you a PM

meleagertoo

3rd Jul 2018, 06:54

Heres the first recorded log I have from LTN, lunch time 14.08.95 (I have lost my logs before then....)

G-BUTZ ... Dornier Do.228-202K... Suckling Airways

- Anorak mode on -

I had to check that reg as I didn't recognise it as a Suckling one, no wonder cos it's a Pa28!

- Off -

DaveReidUK

3rd Jul 2018, 07:47

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1024x683/1431308_large_e7d8576f0c2972069680bc5c06d5f943ca801e9b.jpg

LTNman

4th Jul 2018, 04:56

Seem to remember that Sucking started off flying out of Ipswich from its grass runway but moved to Cambridge due to waterlogging of the runway. Did they then move to Luton or did they still fly to Amsterdam from Cambridge at the same time? I used to listen to the company frequency when the crew used to report passenger numbers to their Cambridge ops. They then upgraded their aircraft to something faster but I can’t remember what to.

22/04

4th Jul 2018, 07:21

Suckling started at Ipswich and then moved to RAF Wattisham for a while before settling on Cambridge. They did IIRC operate from both Cambridge and Luton to Amsterdam. When British Airways Express gave up Paris they replaced them on Paris CDG with Dornier 328s. I flew on both routes - the 228 was unpressurised and I remember descending over the North Sea as ice was forming on the wind shield. Both routes ceased when the business fares charged by Suckling became very expensive compared to EasyJet. Stagecoach took a share in the airline - it became Scot Air and flew form London City to Scottish destinations - Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee. The airline was eventually sold to Loganair, with whom the 328s continue to be operated.

meleagertoo

4th Jul 2018, 08:23

At the time of YVRLTN's list Suckling were flying Cambridge to Amsterdam and Manchester and LTN to AMS and Waterford. The first Do328 was either just delivered or just about to be. istr they had five 228s at that time, three in livery and two not, at least one of which was leased/loaned from Dornier and used as a spare. HQ was at Cambridge. I think I had just left (after ony 3 months, so dreadful were their standards) at that time and was voluntarily back on the dole, and sleeping soundly again!

cj241101

4th Jul 2018, 15:06

Suckling's first 328 was G-BWIR registered on 18/10/95. It arrived at Luton at 2100 on 24/10/95, all white with no titles and disappeared into hangar 125. Here it is the next time I saw it on 30/10/95:-

https://i.imgur.com/tASb9EQ.jpg

creweite

4th Jul 2018, 23:12

I find reading these posts fascinating. I did my PPL cross country from White Waltham to Cambridge with an intermediate stop at Luton back in 1955, non radio and had light signals from what looked like a lighthouse! All grass, and I was the only aircraft there. What an incredible change from all those years ago!

YVRLTN

5th Jul 2018, 01:48

CJ, I am blown away you have that information, incredible. I might take advantage an PM you some of my queries, back then it was binos from the gate at the lane supplemented by a drive by round the back and it was common to misread off some regs.

Re Suckling, I remember for a very short period when the 328 came online they actually did a CBG-LTN-AMS rotation, the CBG flight was even listed in the BAA timetable of the time from LTN. EZY killed them at LTN of course.

Another memory from that period was Debonair. They did NCL, CPH, MGL - what else? MAD maybe.

LynxDriver

5th Jul 2018, 02:45

Not a "B", it's an "R":

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/400x268/g_brac_usa_791200_pc_6f9e1e2611d232739c8f676966d4223f12277ac 4.jpg

That's the one that crashed in the USA in 1980 is it not?

DaveReidUK

5th Jul 2018, 06:32

That's the one that crashed in the USA in 1980 is it not?

Yes.

http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-reports/AAR81-03.pdf

VictorGolf

5th Jul 2018, 09:28

I was surprised to see "meleagertoo's" comment about the standard of service on Suckling Airways. I flew Cambridge to Manchester with them several times in the early 90s and was impressed with the on-time performance and friendliness of the cabin crew.. A warm meal and decent wine served from a proper bottle, none of your miniatures on Suckling and all this on a 40 minute sector..I seem to remember that the hosties had a maximum height limit of 5ft 3ins because of the low cabin height and regulars were greeted with a peck on the cheek on boarding. You don't get that with Easyjet or at least I don't.

cj241101

5th Jul 2018, 09:59

Another memory from that period was Debonair. They did NCL, CPH, MGL - what else? MAD maybe.

Ahh, yes, Debonair. A 146 operator, right? What I (and probably a lot of others as well) tend to forget is they operated some other types in their final months. A few pictures:-

https://i.imgur.com/DgBgZXi.jpg
G-DEBA 9/5/96. Operations commenced on 19th June 1996, initially to Barcelona, Munich and Dusseldorf/Moenchengladbach then to Newcastle, Madrid and Copenhagen later in the year.

https://i.imgur.com/AudojfG.jpg
G-DEBC 2/6/96

https://i.imgur.com/7fSOOeW.jpg
Only operated by Debonair in their last few months, G-DEBM seen here on 31/3/99 was about to get Swissair Express titles and Swiss flag on the tail prior to operating on their behalf from Zurich. http://www.airliners.net/search?registrationActual=G-DEBM&display=detail
https://i.imgur.com/ulN9WJi.jpg?1
G-AYOP 6/9/99. Originally Court Line (yellow), Debonair used this aircraft for the last 4 months of their existence prior to entering receivership on 30/9/99.

2 737-300's were leased briefly from AB Airlines for the first half of 1999:-

https://i.imgur.com/ONT73Iq.jpg?1
G-OABD 16/5/99

https://i.imgur.com/dc4WZ9H.jpg?1
G-OABL 11/2/99.

A comprehensive history of Debonair is available here:-
DEBONAIR AIRWAYS, LTD.: United Kingdom (1995-1999) (http://www.worldhistory.biz/contemporary-history/73865-debonair-airways-ltd-united-kingdom-1995-1999.html)

Oh and a search for "Debonair" in my photos also found this one, which I couldn't resist adding given the current football fever gripping the nation (well, some of it at least). Taken on the day of the Euro96 final between Germany and the Czech Republic (the Czechs all flew into Stansted).

https://i.imgur.com/RCSx278.jpg

meleagertoo

5th Jul 2018, 10:12

VG, I didn't mention the cabin service standards - that doesn't bother a pilot much.

I agree Suckling offered a very unusual and friendly - though hugely expensive - service to pax and the food was very good. Only cold stuff though as there were no ovens on the 228 and despite the food & drinks baskets having to be stored on the "splash tray" in front of the toilet and on it's lid for t/o and landing. Utterly revolting! Can you imagine getting away with that today? I don't know how they got away with that even then.

Reliability/on time performance can often be enhanced by operating small aircraft and using quiet airfields and sneaking into gaps between heavies at larger ones and worked quite well and is always artificially enhanced on such aged and tired-out aircraft as long as they "never" go wrong and the weather "never" falls below Cat1 limits (200ft cloudbase, double that at Cambridge) This may well fool pax but it doesn't fool most pilots.

ISTR that the LTN - AMS route was killed by the announcement that the shortly-to-be-started Debonair was introducing the same route.

cj241101

5th Jul 2018, 10:22

Some more from 30/6/96:-

https://i.imgur.com/3EGi7p5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Zh4Ofoc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uCEUbNp.jpg

Also on football flights that day (no photos though) were:-
EI-CJK A300 Sobelair
OE-LAT 767-300 Lauda Air
OY-CNL A300 Premiair
PH-MCV 767-300 Martinair
plus those in the earlier photo were Condor DC-10 D-ADLO, Aero Lloyd MD83 D-ALLO, Hapag-Lloyd A310 D-AHLB, Lufthansa 737-200 D-ABFR, Lufthansa A310 D-AIDC and Lufthansa 737-500 D-ABJE.
Those were the days !

LTNman

5th Jul 2018, 11:09

Not nostalgia as this photo was taken today. The Redcoat Britannia lives on at Luton

https://i.imgur.com/SZRTniK.jpg

cj241101

5th Jul 2018, 11:47

VictorGolf

5th Jul 2018, 13:40

"meleagertoo", I defer to your comments re warm food but perhaps they had something else going on in the loo? Perish the thought. Wasn't the process to collect the meals from nearby housewives shortly before departure. Perhaps they arrived warm? WRT to your comment about cabin crew not bothering the pilots, I remember that after a pretty sporty crosswind landing at Manchester which severely tested the Dornier's u/c, the hostie whizzed up to the cockpit carrying a very nice picture of a daffodil in a pot. When I asked her what it was all about she said that she told the captain,"You planted it, now you can water it!". Happy Days.

dc9-32

5th Jul 2018, 15:52

The Debonair management were clueless when it came to putting together schedules. I mean who wants to go from Luton to Barcelona at 9am when all other airlines would be arriving at 9am !! The aircraft (B733) then turned and flew to Gatwick, crew change then back to Barcelona then back to Luton. A classic W pattern but the timings were awful. Management blamed a lack of Barcelona slots being available.

The Munich schedules were all cock-eyed too. Leave Luton at 8am and get to Munich at 1130 local then sit there for the day until 1800 local before returning to Luton. They then had that aircraft schedule for the Luton to Moenchengladbach but the aircraft only had a 30 minute window before Moenchengladbach closed. Invariably, most evening arrivals diverted to Dusseldorf which then meant the morning rotation to Luton was delayed whilst waiting for passengers to get from Moenchengladbach to Dusseldorf. Some days the aircraft would fly Luton to Munich to Barcelona to Munich to Luton but the way they had crews rostered was unbelievable until someone stepped in and tore up the rosters and started again to make it more efficient.

The best one though was Luton to Rome leaving at 0915. By the time you got to Rome, half the day was gone. The aircraft could have flown a UK domestic schedule then return to Luton before the Rome trip but management kept it on the ground to 0915. An utter waste of an aircraft's available time.

The classic though was when the CEO decided to contract 5 x 146's out to Lufthansa and 2 to Air France and failed to tell anyone else such as engineering, ops, crewing, reservations. They got a weeks notice to put it all together and as a result of taking 7 aircraft out of the Debonair daily schedule, that in itself imploded and the result was a foray of costly sub-charters. So what money was being made on contracting out to Lufthansa/Air France was lost on sub-charters. Waste of time.

The CEO then pulled the same stunt again and contracted 2 x 146's out to Swissair. So of the fleet of I think 12 aircraft at the time, 9 were contracted out. Most of the ground staff in the terminal and ops/crewing were on the verge of nervous breakdowns trying to keep everything running and passengers happy and management simply did not care.

An utter chaotic airline if ever there was one.....

cj241101

5th Jul 2018, 16:36

YVRLTN I have sent you a PM.

LynxDriver

5th Jul 2018, 17:30

Last scheme worn by this aircraft (G-AOVS) was the fictitious "Redair" for the 1980 BBC drama "Buccaneer" which basically closely copied the story of Redcoat flying cargo charters from the UK to Africa. I believe the ill-fated G-BRAC acquired similar titles. The fictional country "Ximbali" and its airport was actually Cranfield.

https://i.imgur.com/sLkKa47.jpg
I remember seeing that parked up. I took a couple of photos myself at the time. Can someone help jog my memory please? I'm sure I recall seeing a Brit wearing Redair titles doing circuits at Manston back in 1979 or 80. I hope that old age hasn't addled the brain!

dc9-32

6th Jul 2018, 05:42

JENKINS - I'm assuming you weren't one of the those sorting out the chaos but instead one who collected those allowances at the hotel :ok:

Debonair should have concentrated on being an ACMI airline because clearly there was enough work for it but to try and do schedule and ACMI with no slack in the fleet was a suicidal move.

SpringHeeledJack

6th Jul 2018, 12:26

I'd heard it said, back in the day, that the airline was run more to the whims/dreams/ego of the founder than to realistic route/timings and type of airline (budget).....Had they concentrated on the ACMI market, they might still be here like Titan etc.

meleagertoo

6th Jul 2018, 12:40

To pick the plums out of the pudding;

The Debonair management were clueless

management simply did not care.

An utter chaotic airline if ever there was one.....

What about the Calabria regional services contract (local government sponsored/brokered)for four - five aircraft (?) that got as far as the route proving flights before someone in Alitalia noticed that the contract had not gone out to tender as EU law required. It had all been quietly done on "private handshakes". Is there any connection between Italian American iffy businessmen and the deep South of Italy I wonder? How naiive is that - imagining they could get away with it?

Or the insane plan to equip the fleet with "Boeing" 717s (aka a DC9 with tits) which was a ludicrously unsuitable aircraft for a lo-co carrier - not that the 146 was exactly the best choice either. Decisions like that seemed to be made on a whim or because someone made up some nice looking artwork on their sales pitch. There wasn't much sign of any commercial thinking going on.

Many thought that the chaotic, disastrously inefficient style and general lack of any sort of management was a result of the company never being intended to make a profit - ie a way of "cleaning up" investors' money - most of which was from those Italian Americans.

Mancassola's previous attempt to start an airline (Discovery was it?), of which Debonair was a carbon copy down to that bloody bear and the embarrassing grey prep-school "uniforms" failed ignominiously right before launch in a style reminiscent of the Calabrian job. He didn't have much of a track record.
The Chief pilot/Flt Ops Dir. was straight out of the RAF and knew absolutely zip about civil ops and his sidekick the Teflon-coated Chief training "Captain" could be frightening to fly with. They did eventually get a decent F.O.D but although he tried mightily by then it was too late.

It was immense fun but many crew knew in their hearts that it could not carry on. Five day rotations staying in luxurious apartment-suites in BRU and flying perhaps six sectors in that time. 5 day trips that went something like Posn MUC, Operate MUC BCN. SBY. BCN MUC BCN early finish. SBY. Posn LTN on the early. Home for lunchtime! Eat lots of tapas. Drink lots of beer. Get to know Barcelona better than your own home! What a jolly! SBY for a day in CPH with only one flight passing trough was always a joy. LTN MGL LTN was sometimes a day's work! Home before lunchtime! Captains got suites in some hotels, great for crew parties but at what cost? I doubt anyone flew more than 300hrs in a year. Days spent cycling around Bavaria and eating Schnitzel. There was even a crew hire car there so on the early rotations it was possible to ski Kitzbuel in the afternooon! - it was the best holiday ever while it lasted. Best crews and party scene ever too, just a shame about the appallingly inept management.

Even so, the aircraft were well maintained and great fun to fly and commands came quickly. Good days.

dc9-32

7th Jul 2018, 05:41

Perugia as a destination came about because the CEO, had some personal connections there. The schedules were awful, loads were low and like most of the other routes, were non money making.

It is alleged that the original Ops Manager was taking back-handers from the local crew transport company for months on the basis so much money was being spent moving crews around. He approved the contract and costs and probably thought "I'll have a slice of that". He was found out eventually though and given the Spanish Archer (El-Bow). His replacement was known to not mince his words with the likes of the CEO when things were going wrong with the schedules (daily problem) and I have it on good authority that one day in the Ops room when the CEO was trying to come up with ideas on how to crew flights (yes he tried), the then Ops Manager told him in no uncertain terms that clowns were not welcome in the department and to leave immediately if he wanted the aircraft to move the next day. Needless to say, said CEO scuttled away but to be replaced by another clueless boy wonder who was responsible for putting the schedules together in the first place. He too was given his marching orders by the OM.

Dealing with major disruption on a daily basis as well as dealing with heavily stressed ground staff were things most didn't sign up for.

Who would have thought Billy Smarts Circus had it's own airline !!

PAXboy

7th Jul 2018, 23:54

DebonAir was useless. The poor crews. I am not surprised to read the background given by dc9-32 (above) and thank you for the info.

I started working a contract in MUC in September 1998 that lasted 18 months. I was pleased to discover Debon as I lived vey close to LTN. Very quickly I agreed with a colleague who also used them, "I'm a member of their Frequent Sufferer Programme". They were a disaster. Such a pity.

I only used them for about three round trips before changing to LH into LHR, long before they closed. Fortunately, iin those days, it was still possible to drop off and pause to collect for free.

Mooncrest

8th Jul 2018, 09:43

Wasn't there a former Britannia Airways Director at Debonair ? Stuart Somebody.

Brookmans Park

8th Jul 2018, 10:02

Wasn't there a former Britannia Airways Director at Debonair ? Stuart Somebody.
Debonair

Stu Grieve was the man,ex Brit and Hawker Siddely

Mooncrest

8th Jul 2018, 15:34

Thanks BP.

dc9-32

9th Jul 2018, 05:44

The only guy that had any logic and balls in the last few months of Debonair was Joe Sharpes. Sadly, he too was up against the circus that being run on the first floor of "Portacabin Towers".

meleagertoo

9th Jul 2018, 07:50

Debonair

Stu Grieve was the man,ex Brit and Hawker Siddely

And much missed he was too when he left. I believe he was only hired (possibly only interested in) to get the thing set up and running. He was much respected and had he stayed there might have been a different mindset on the portacabin towers with that sort of leadership.
I doubt he'd have stood for one particularly corrosive character (previously mentioned above) who did much to destabilise flight-deck's self-esteem and confidence.

Who was Joe Sharpes? Don't recall the name. I thought there was a pretty good Flt Ops Dir in place for a while before the end.

dc9-32

9th Jul 2018, 11:10

I believe Joe Sharpes was bought in to replace the ex Royal Flight guy who held the DFO position. The Flight Ops department was effectively run by ex Military guys with no clue of commercial ops. Not helped when the original CEO was replaced by the guy who had personal contacts in Perugia. I believe when Debonair failed, this guy went off to run a Tea Shop in London. You couldn't make it up :rolleyes:

thegypsy

9th Jul 2018, 13:30

Was not Mike Budge in Flight Ops at some stage?

Joe Sharps was Chief Pilot of Sunways Sweden which folded Oct 1997

dc9-32

10th Jul 2018, 05:24

Mike Budge was DFO at AB Airlines, not Debonair.

LTNman

12th Jul 2018, 21:03

https://i.imgur.com/DONNoiW.jpg
Dave Witts

cj241101

13th Jul 2018, 07:40

https://i.imgur.com/DONNoiW.jpg
Dave Witts

Probably 18th or 23rd April 1973. LN-MTT visited on both these dates, departing to Kristiansand on Easter Monday 23rd April.

LTNman

13th Jul 2018, 09:48

Did British Midland do their own handling at Luton as I can see a British Midland van in the photo?

cj241101

13th Jul 2018, 12:49

Did British Midland do their own handling at Luton as I can see a British Midland van in the photo?

Up until around 1975 I think, not sure if they had all their own ground equipment, although the ground power unit looks to be in their house purple colours. In 1967 they had 3 check-in desks at the right hand end of the desks when they were located in a line from left to right as you entered the terminal.

22/04

13th Jul 2018, 19:29

cj241101

13th Jul 2018, 22:34

Don't recall when those desks disappeared but they were there into the 70s I think. Midland woke up an otherwise sleepy late morning on Saturdays in '68 and maybe '69 with Channel Islands flights and a Dublin IIRC - I'm sure cj will know when Dublin ceased - it didn't last long.

Dublin operated peak summer 1967 (from mid-July I think) on Wed/Thu, last flight I can find was on 14/9/67 on G-AVJB. 1968 there seem to be flights Wed/Sat from 1st June-end Sep although the 1968 BMA timetable shows flights Mon/Fri as well.
Not sure about 1969 flights.
IIRC the Midland desks went in 1975 and Dan Air took over the handling. Monarch when they started had 2 desks between Britannia and Midland, also Channel had a single desk at the right hand end for their short-lived Scottish Flyer service in 1969. Invicta also had their own check-in desks in the early 70's.

cj241101

15th Jul 2018, 10:11

Re Midland Dublin schedules - I have a few clippings from the local paper in 1969 - Saturday Telegraph I think - where they used to print the planned movements for the airport. These mostly covered weekends and I only have a few of them but I can find no sign of anything looking like Dublin scheduled flights.

SpringHeeledJack

16th Jul 2018, 16:18

Some photos that mightn't have made it onto the thread.....

Fascinating photos reveal the stunning transformation of Luton Airport | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5958655/Fascinating-photos-reveal-stunning-transformation-Luton-Airport.html)

PAXboy

17th Jul 2018, 02:22

In the picture of Comet G-ALYP diverted to LTN in 1952, they caption it 'York Peter'.
They highlight a Derby Airways craft and make no ref to the Connie that is in front of it.
The check in area with Marty Feldman filming for TV has an arc lamp in clear view. It is a Mole-Richardson 'Brute' that (natch) ran on DC power and my maternal grandfather was one of the key designers of it.

LTNman

17th Jul 2018, 04:28

rog747

17th Jul 2018, 06:35

22/04

17th Jul 2018, 09:05

In the picture of Comet G-ALYP diverted to LTN in 1952, they caption it 'York Peter'

George Able Love Yoke Peter In full in the British phonetic alphabet. My favorite was Nan, as in George Able Nan Baker Easy. Only the Brits could have come up with that. It all went away in March 1956.

Hatfield had a concrete runway from the late 1940s - if I can find the right book I put the date on here.

Many pictures as you say that I haven't seen before and quite accurate for the press.

spekesoftly

17th Jul 2018, 10:12

Hatfield had a concrete runway from the late 1940s - if I can find the right book I put the date on here.

Construction of Hatfield's concrete runway was completed in December 1947, at a cost of some £442,000.

Hatfield Runway (http://www.hatfield-herts.co.uk/aviation/runway.html)

Groundloop

17th Jul 2018, 11:07

My favorite was Nan, as in George Able Nan Baker Easy. Only the Brits could have come up with that.
Why said it was just the Brits? Nan was used by the Allies during WW2 - so the US was also involved in chosing it.

22/04

17th Jul 2018, 11:48

I think the current alphabet was adopted by ICAO and NATO

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Jul 2018, 18:07

Further to those superb images from The Mail:

Luton Airways ceased operations in December 1959 having been founded by Messrs Jarvis and Fisher in December 1957. They had three Dragon Rapides; G-AHLF, G-AIBB and G-ALGC with an additional Dragon Rapide G-ALBC leased from McAlpines who also hangared and maintained Luton Airways' fleet. The Rapide in the photograph is G-ALGC. Luton Airways operated Pleasure Flights and Charters across the UK and near continent.

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Jul 2018, 19:11

Luton Anorak

18th Jul 2018, 11:04

http://www.airteamimages.com/de-havilland-dragon-rapide_G-AIBB_luton-airways_98205.htmlhttps://www.na3t.org/images/photos/air/BSX00311.jpg
https://www.na3t.org/images/photos/air/BSX00326.jpg

This last image shows the remains of Dragon Rapide G-AFOI said to have been purchased by Luton Airways for spares. Previously with Handley Page as the company hack.
My notes for G-AFOI state the following : 20.09.1957 it was withdrawn from use at Sywell after its CofA expired - it was transported to Luton from Sywell early in 1958 for use as spares by Luton Airways Ltd for G-ALBC and was noted inside the McAlpine hangar in August 1958 (fuselage only) - the registration was cancelled 20.03.1957 as permanently withdrawn from use - on 19.03.1960 the fuselage was noted dumped outside the McAlpine hangar - I have nothing after this, so if anybody can add any more information I would be very interested!

LTNman

18th Jul 2018, 19:31

The last photo of the wreck must have been taken nearer the Percival buildings and a little away from the original McAlpine hanger by the flying club.

sagindragin

3rd Aug 2018, 13:23

anyone have images of the Malaysian Provosts, i only have about 5 or 6 most are of FM1037

YVRLTN

4th Aug 2018, 17:02

Where did the OCS Bandit's fly? They were registered to Willowair or something similar. Any affiliation to Streamline or anyone else? Were their Shorts operations independent? I seem to remember a SH330 ended up with OCS titles too and operated briefly from LTN, was G-BIFH if memory serves. Another SSW SH330 was lost at CDG operating from LTN in a collision with an Air Liberte MD83, I think that one was G-LEDN.

I guess it all got amalgamated into Emerald and the flying they once did is now done by West Atlantic.

Airbanda

5th Aug 2018, 15:48

No mention that the Comet landed on a grass runway. Maybe the first grass runway landing of a passenger jet anywhere in the world seeing that there was only the Comet.

I am assuming Hatfield had a contrete runway it this time.

Nevil Shute's 'In the Wet' written in the early fifties but set in the eighties seems to regard operation of jet transports from grass as routine. The hero, David Anderson, flies the Queen's Flight's imaginary De Haviland Ceres to and from White Waltham, putting it down upon the grass after the sheep have been herded away.

Allan Lupton

5th Aug 2018, 21:22

Nevil Shute's 'In the Wet' written in the early fifties but set in the eighties seems to regard operation of jet transports from grass as routine. The hero, David Anderson, flies the Queen's Flight's imaginary De Haviland Ceres to and from White Waltham, putting it down upon the grass after the sheep have been herded away.
Knowledgable though N.S.Norway was, his guessing what would be normal thirty years later is hardly evidence. However by the real 1980s we successors to de Havilland did have "jet transports" with LCN requirements suitable for unpaved runways - and doubtless some of those runways were grass.
Anyway the Hatfield concrete runway was finished well before the Comet needed it (see spekesoftly's link) and although the prototype had single-wheel main u/c I'm pretty sure the huge tyres were not expected to operate from grass.

cj241101

30th Aug 2018, 10:37

I have some old airport mayflys from Jan 1979-Jul 1980. Here's a sample:-

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah165/colin_jones5/Fri%20270779.jpeg_zpsiulquuqf.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/colin_jones5/media/Fri%20270779.jpeg_zpsiulquuqf.jpeg.html)
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah165/colin_jones5/Sat%20280779_zpsnyaragt3.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/colin_jones5/media/Sat%20280779_zpsnyaragt3.jpeg.html)
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah165/colin_jones5/Sun%20290779_zpsoutpkxaq.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/colin_jones5/media/Sun%20290779_zpsoutpkxaq.jpeg.html)

1979 was the busiest in terms of airline numbers, with 24 operators (including cargo) at the peak of the summer season. Most cargo flights were missing as they tended to be notified after the mayflys were published. Aer Turas and Redcoat were regular but missing from the above. Letters in the ETD and ETA columns refer to the handling agent. All the Monarch Boeing flights were shown as "720" although some would have been operated by their 707-123B G-BGCT which supplemented the 5 720's they operated in 1979.

LTNman

30th Aug 2018, 13:22

These sheets would be distributed to all the tour operator desks in the terminal each week and were left on the counters where I would help myself if I spotted a copy.

ericlday

30th Aug 2018, 14:09

Always picked a copy up from the information desk......very helpful in them days

cj241101

30th Aug 2018, 16:31

At some stage a daily movement sheet was introduced which would obviously be more accurate and include cargo/horse/ad-hoc flights etc. Here's some more from midweek including some of the Scandivavian student flights by Maersk and Scanair:-

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah165/colin_jones5/Tue%20100779_zpsoffuriho.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/colin_jones5/media/Tue%20100779_zpsoffuriho.jpeg.html)

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah165/colin_jones5/Wed%20110779_zps4t3qmfap.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/colin_jones5/media/Wed%20110779_zps4t3qmfap.jpeg.html)

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah165/colin_jones5/Thu%20120779_zpsdiiyholg.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/colin_jones5/media/Thu%20120779_zpsdiiyholg.jpeg.html)

rog747

31st Aug 2018, 13:15

Great archives there of the May-flys from the very late 70's - Thank you, most interesting.

We notice Monarch OM and Britannia BY are now the major players at LTN with having the most departures to the Med resorts, Canaries,and beyond.
Italy and Sicily are very popular, especially with Monarch and the Greek Islands not yet much on the map - although Athens was then a big charter destination for both holidays, and to join cruise ships.
(The 720B was the long haul king then to the Caribbean via Gander or the Azores)
Britannia having a lone fleet of 737-200's with the newer ADV models coming on stream.

An OM 1-11 is booked going down to Corfu but I notice the corresponding inbound is back from Rimini, so I guess that was the tech stop on the way home.
Seems Malta Sicily, and Tunis, Monastir was about the furthest the 1-11 500 normally ventured.

Some very late hour 1-11 and 720 departures and early hours arrivals back in all through the night (imagine the noise!)

Note the big gaps in movements during the day which I remember when being at LTN - No arrivals or departures for hours, then a batch of landings zooming back in.

Dan Air no longer sees much of presence then at LTN as Clarkson's had gone bust in 1974, so no Comet, or much 1-11 or even 727 traffic.
DA had a busy 1-11 300/400 IT fleet base at LTN from 1969, and by 1971 had 5 1-11 jets based there, plus the Comets coming and going for the longer flights, some on W's)
We see here only weekend W flights from/to Palma Mahon and Malaga on a 1-11.
I think DA recovered at LTN as I seem to recall plenty of 727's and 1-11 500's operating in and out.

Some Yugoslavia charter traffic with JAT JR 707 and Inex Adria JP DC-9, but not as busy as the early and mid 70's, and surprisingly no Aviogenex JJ TU-134

No Aviaco AO DC-8 or CVL, and no Air Spain JA DC-8's who had gone bust a few years earlier.
Also no Spantax BX seen either - CV990 or DC-9.

Thomsons, Skytours and Budget Holidays (Direct sell, huge thick brochure, remember them?) were the biggest user of BY (plus the MOD)
and Cosmos Holidays were Monarch's in-house airline, with Pontinental a large charterer in their own right with both OM, BY and also BX.
With the loss of Court Line and Clarksons a few years before it seems that in 1979 LTN was getting quite busy.

Thanks for the memories!

kenparry

31st Aug 2018, 14:26

Interesting to see the daily flight sheets. BY482A/B, LTN-IBZ-LTN, feature in my logbook for 12 July 79. We left LTN on time, but were 10 min late on return. I was in the right front seat for that. My first Summer on the line with BAL.

boeing_eng

31st Aug 2018, 16:17

thegypsy

31st Aug 2018, 17:11

kenparry

Did my first line training flight with BAL from LTN 2/3/74 to Palma and back and then 6 days later a double trooper. Line check with Don Tanton 14/3/74 another double trooper Dusseldorf and Gutersloh. Then let loose.

.

rog747

31st Aug 2018, 17:54

Italy and Sicily are very popular, especially with Monarch and the Greek Islands not yet much on the map - although Athens was then a big charter destination for both holidays, and to join cruise ships.

I flew down to ATH several times with BY in the early 80's. At that time many of the airports on the popular smaller islands could not handle jet traffic (so a lot of holidaymakers ended up traveling on ferries via ATH which was indeed very busy with charter traffic)

Yes indeed! I guess you recall the old ATH international terminal with all the backpackers sleeping on the floor and the whole place buzzing at 1am in the morning with about 20-30 charter flights all checking in...dogs running around the terminal, cockroaches crawling up the check in desk.

Rhodes and Crete were just opening up - both having been quite upmarket and expensive destinations at first -
Cyprus (NCO) having been lost to the holiday market after 1974 invasion.
Rhodes was building a new airport to replace the old and rather scary Maritsa WW2 airfield located between, and surrounded by mountains with a dodgy set of Navaids, and no radar.
I remember going in there on the jump seat one night on a very delayed BCAL 707 and it was pitch black - the FE suddenly saw the sun rise slowly creeping up in the East and the silhouette of the mountains was revealed.
Mykonos started to get jets early-mid 80's (BY 737's i think, were one of the first UK charters to go in there)

cj241101

31st Aug 2018, 19:19

Dan Air no longer sees much of presence then at LTN as Clarkson's had gone bust in 1974, so no Comet, or much 1-11 or even 727 traffic.
DA had a busy 1-11 300/400 IT fleet base at LTN from 1969, and by 1971 had 5 1-11 jets based there, plus the Comets coming and going for the longer flights, some on W's)
We see here only weekend W flights from/to Palma Mahon and Malaga on a 1-11.
I think DA recovered at LTN as I seem to recall plenty of 727's and 1-11 500's operating in and out.
Some Yugoslavia charter traffic with JAT JR 707 and Inex Adria JP DC-9, but not as busy as the early and mid 70's, and surprisingly no Aviogenex JJ TU-134
No Aviaco AO DC-8 or CVL, and no Air Spain JA DC-8's who had gone bust a few years earlier.
Also no Spantax BX seen either - CV990 or DC-9.

Dan Air S79 was indeed only 3 weekly flights on LGW-based 1-11's, with the crew base at LTN having been closed. Nov 79 they also closed their handling base with Monarch taking over the DA handling and most of their 3rd party work (and ground staff).
Although shown on the weekly mayfly as a 707, the JR flights were mostly on the Yugoslav Government 727-200 YU-AKD. BCAL did operate some flights with a 707 but the JAT examples only appeared from the beginning of August. Aviogenex TU-134's never managed to operate a regular IT series and were mostly seen in the winter, often stopping over the weekend. When Aviogenex did operate regularly it was with 737-200's and 727-200's in the late 80's and 1990 IIRC.
The only Aviaco flights in 1979 operated to Madrid in April on Caravelles then a few in August, also Madrid, on DC-8's.
Spantax CV-990's did a short series in 1984 then 1985-87 they used 737-200's (and the occasional DC-8-61). Can't recall them using their DC-9's.

More mayflys coming shortly.

rog747

31st Aug 2018, 19:32

Dan Air S79 was indeed only 3 weekly flights on LGW-based 1-11's, with the crew base at LTN having been closed. Nov 79 they also closed their handling base with Monarch taking over the DA handling and most of their 3rd party work (and ground staff).
Although shown on the weekly mayfly as a 707, the JR flights were mostly on the Yugoslav Government 727-200 YU-AKD. BCAL did operate some flights with a 707 but the JAT examples only appeared from the beginning of August. Aviogenex TU-134's never managed to operate a regular IT series and were mostly seen in the winter, often stopping over the weekend. When Aviogenex did operate regularly it was with 737-200's and 727-200's in the late 80's and 1990 IIRC.
The only Aviaco flights in 1979 operated to Madrid in April on Caravelles then a few in August, also Madrid, on DC-8's.
Spantax CV-990's did a short series in 1984 then 1985-87 they used 737-200's (and the occasional DC-8-61). Can't recall them using their DC-9's.

More mayflys coming shortly.

Wonderful! Seems the early 70's had more of the Spanish bigger jets coming in, especially at weekends plus Aviogenex Tupolevs and Index Adria were more frequent then in the summer, Plus more Dan Air of course.
Do you have any from the early 1970's please - Would lovely to see flights showing my first jobs with Air Spain and Court LIne - thanks!

cj241101

31st Aug 2018, 20:05

Do you have any from the early 1970's please - Would lovely to see flights showing my first jobs with Air Spain and Court LIne - thanks!

Sorry only 1979-mid-1980, not all of them either. If anyone can provide any mayflys from 1969-1978 I would also be very interested.

LGS6753

31st Aug 2018, 20:16

Those mayflys were available (by post) from the airport authority on request. I subscribed and paid £25 one year, and they kept on coming for about 7 - 8 years!

rog747

31st Aug 2018, 20:20

Sorry only 1979-mid-1980, not all of them either. If anyone can provide any mayflys from 1969-1978 I would also be very interested.

Indeed, me too.

Add in the mix Autair/Court line 1-11's and Tristars.
Britannia AW Brits, and Invicta Vanguards and 720B's
Channel AW Tridents, which had a frequency of IT's. (PMI was one)
BMA 707's and Viscount charters.
Aviaco, Air Spain (and some Spantax Transeuropa and TAE)
Quite a lot of German Swiss, and Scandinavian traffic.
I think SAM Caravelles came in too, but they were seen more at LGW in 2's or sometimes 3's at a time.

All the coaches pulling up from the London air terminals (BY, OU and OM all had London coach terminals, which DA AO and JA all used to use them too for town check ins)

Discorde

1st Sep 2018, 09:22

The BY Munich flights (140A/104B) on 29/07/79 were possibly two halves of W-patterns. My log book shows I was the F/O on the inbound. The duty for us was NCL-MUC-LTN. The a/c was 'RL, BAL's first 737 and the Capt was Bob Stockholm.

thegypsy

1st Sep 2018, 10:28

Level bust

1st Sep 2018, 10:35

rog747

1st Sep 2018, 15:08

rog 747

Well remember Mykonos starting as was by then LGW based and got checked out to operate there. It was just 4200 ft long and 30m wide and no fuel in those days so one had to arrive with enough to get to Athens to refuel. It was always windy whenever I went there which made it interesting.

Oh yes!
25-30 knots straight down the runway - land to the North over the beach.
I was with Monarch after BMA in the mid 80's, and JMK JTR and JSI were all IIRC 2 Capt's, plus sometimes an FO, or another skipper being checked out -
All those flights had to plan to pick up fuel at ATH inbound and maybe some catering too, (SKG was the tech stop for the JSI flights inbound)

I recall 737-200's were one of the only jets used from the UK
OM KT BY AE GB KG DA all sent their pocket rockets down there in those days.
I think BIA did use 1-11's to JSI

The Germans, and Scandinavians were sending in Caravelles and DC-9's to JMK at first, possibly the 727-100 but never saw one.
All OA used from ATH was the SH-330...never saw an OA jet there ever.

Best laugh ever - We sent a 737 down to JMK from LGW with the APU U/S one early morning, once there shuts down, but someone forgets to tell Kostas and Spiros we need an airstart...(wasn't me)
Guess what no airstart at JMK - Ooops -
One 737 AOG 24 hours with 130 pax until the following day the LTN-HER drops into JMK on its way south to jump start our stranded LGW 737.
Happy days.

(sorry for going off-piste here but did get LTN mentioned at the end....)

rog747

1st Sep 2018, 15:18

I flew to Munich with Britannia on the 9th Aug 1979, Flt No; By123A out and back on the 16th as BY123B, GAXNA both times. The flight was a Thomson Holidays package holiday to the Austrian Tyrol. Innsbruck was closer but that was the time that no-one flew there, so a 4 hour coach ride!

Very true!
All used Munich for the Tyrol.

Was it British Eagle that was maybe the last of the Innsbruck users, summer 1968?
Who started INN back up again?
Was it Invicta from LTN with Vanguards?

No one then was using Salzburg ether.
When I was at Northeast in the mid 1970's our LHR Trident Swans Tours charters for Austria went to Munich for the Tyrol, and Zurich for the Vorarlberg region.

Also Thomson had just started to number their BY flights with the same number for both out and home, but just adding A for out, and B for home.

Georgeablelovehowindia

1st Sep 2018, 15:49

Oh yes!
25-30 knots straight down the runway - land to the North over the beach.
I was with Monarch after BMA in the mid 80's, and JMK JTR and JSI were all IIRC 2 Capt's, plus sometimes an FO, or another skipper being checked out -
All those flights had to plan to pick up fuel at ATH inbound and maybe some catering too, (SKG was the tech stop for the JSI flights inbound)

I recall 737-200's were one of the only jets used from the UK
OM KT BY AE GB KG DA all sent their pocket rockets down there in those days.
I think BIA did use 1-11's to JSI

The Germans, and Scandinavians were sending in Caravelles and DC-9's to JMK at first, possibly the 727-100 but never saw one.
All OA used from ATH was the SH-330...never saw an OA jet there ever.

Best laugh ever - We sent a 737 down to JMK from LGW with the APU U/S one early morning, once there shuts down, but someone forgets to tell Kostas and Spiros we need an airstart...(wasn't me)
Guess what no airstart at JMK - Ooops -
One 737 AOG 24 hours with 130 pax until the following day the LTN-HER drops into JMK on its way south to jump start our stranded LGW 737.
Happy days.

(sorry for going off-piste here but did get LTN mentioned at the end....)

Wrong - there was an ASU at Mikonos - Monarch Ops were at great pains to have Olympic confirm that, before they sent long tall Phil B on his way. On arrival, Phil, being a wise old bird kept no.2 running, descended the airstairs and demanded to see it. However, on viewing it, he failed to ask them to start the thing and hear it trumpeting the sweet music of LP air. Of course, come departure it failed to start, and the debacle commenced. The 'jump start' kit was loaned from Britannia - as was the serviceable APU which was fitted to the aircraft the instant it got back. It's amazing how the MD - Alan Snudden - going ballistic and calling for heads on platters put a stop to something which had been going on for over two weeks.
Happy days, as you say indeed.

Mooncrest

1st Sep 2018, 16:27

I've been in aviation for over twenty years and I had no idea it was possible to jump start one aircraft from another. I learn something every day. How's it done ?

DaveReidUK

1st Sep 2018, 16:39

I've been in aviation for over twenty years and I had no idea it was possible to jump start one aircraft from another. I learn something every day. How's it done ?

I've never hear of that either.

Nearest I've come across is where a starter/generator (on a Spey) fails downline and in order to start the engine and get home you remove the S/G from a running engine to temporarily substitute for the dead one.

Georgeablelovehowindia

1st Sep 2018, 16:46

I've been in aviation for over twenty years and I had no idea it was possible to jump start one aircraft from another. I learn something every day. How's it done ?

The 'jump start' kit was fashioned from air start trunking, long enough to pass between the underbellies of two 737s parked side by side. Plug the trunking into the external air supply receptacles of each aircraft, open and close a few valves and hey presto - the 'live' aircraft is giving air to the 'dead' one. It used to be said that what Britannia didn't know about operating 737s wasn't worth knowing anyway.

compton3bravo

1st Sep 2018, 19:57

Those movement lists bring back many memories. Started collecting them late 1960s - just send some self addressed envelopes sir and we will do the rest (duty managers office) and they did religiously. Still have some but had to ditch a few after relocating my UK base from Bedfordshire to the south coast. Just one aside and I can laugh now. Had a major row with my wife at the time and she threatened to screw up my latest movements list and I said anything but that! We did laugh about it later. As you can imagine those in that's late 1960s did not have many movements especially during some of the winter months.

Georgeablelovehowindia

1st Sep 2018, 20:23

The 'jump start' kit was fashioned from air start trunking, long enough to pass between the underbellies of two 737s parked side by side. Plug the trunking into the external air supply receptacles of each aircraft, open and close few valves and hey presto - the 'live' aircraft is giving air to the 'dead' one. It used to be said that what Britannia didn't know about operating 737s wasn't worth knowing anyway.
Turning back to those daily Luton flight sheets for 11 July 1979, my logbook tells me that I was the first officer on OM2113 LTN-ALC-LTN aircraft type actually 707-123B G-BGCT with the late Captain Martin Lundberg.

rog747

2nd Sep 2018, 09:59

Turning back to those daily Luton flight sheets for 11 July 1979, my logbook tells me that I was the first officer on OM2113 LTN-ALC-LTN aircraft type actually 707-123B G-BGCT with the late Captain Martin Lundberg.

Great memories GeorgeAble,
yes OM had by then a mix of 720B and 707-120B's - Did they have the same seating (170Y pax iirc)

and thank you so much for reminding me of the actual Mykonos ASU saga story lol.

Do you know how far the OM 1-11's range went?
I see LTN-Corfu on a May-fly above, with Rimini as the stop inound back to LTN.

thanks

rog747

2nd Sep 2018, 10:04

The 'jump start' kit was fashioned from air start trunking, long enough to pass between the underbellies of two 737s parked side by side. Plug the trunking into the external air supply receptacles of each aircraft, open and close a few valves and hey presto - the 'live' aircraft is giving air to the 'dead' one. It used to be said that what Britannia didn't know about operating 737s wasn't worth knowing anyway.

Yes indeed - I cannot recall how they parked the two OM 737's at Mykonos to enable the hoses to hook up back then,
Not confident there were even push tugs nor tow bars then at JMK with OA - but perhaps you can enlighten?...I was asked to go down with the Heraklion 737 if any help was needed but I was not required in the end.

Georgeablelovehowindia

4th Sep 2018, 08:39

I think it was a standard config of 179Y, which is one seat less than they cram into an A320 these days, although at the end I see Monarch had reduced it to 174Y.

All the outstations were self manoeve in those days, and there must've been room to park side by side at Mikonos. I was 'excused' Mikonos, being non-training. Funny thing, we stopped going there shortly after.

Naples was max range for the One-Eleven, and it was even more fun trying to get back, where every degree Celsius less and one knot of headwind more was vitally important. Monarch's first female first officer, substantially experienced on the One-Eleven, having flown them with Air Pacific, had the water injection quit shortly after V1, taking off from Naples. Quote: "The next couple of minutes of just about flying were jolly exciting!"

Level bust

4th Sep 2018, 09:54

I did a jump seat ride to Faro on a Monarch 1-11, 2:45 going 2:30 coming back. Coming out of Faro with 119 pax down the back, and high temperature, we had to turn left after take off, when everybody else turned right, so we could stagger up to a height over the sea so we could then clear the hills to the North!

SpringHeeledJack

4th Sep 2018, 14:00

The performance of the later 1-11's can't have improved much as I remember taking off from Milan-Malpensa on a Dan Air example in 1992/93-ish and we did two climbing circle patterns to be able to legally cross the Alps just to the north. Surprisingly quiet cabin when away from the rear of the aircraft ;-)

cj241101

4th Sep 2018, 18:08

Great memories GeorgeAble,
yes OM had by then a mix of 720B and 707-120B's - Did they have the same seating (170Y pax iirc)

I joined Monarch in 1977 and can confirm the 170Y config. Although 9ft longer, the 707-123B's G-BFMI and G-BGCT were also fitted 170Y; this so that aircraft changes for whatever reason (usually technical) could be accommodated smoothly. At some stage an extra seat appeared from somewhere, not sure how or where, making them 171Y.

Offchocks

5th Sep 2018, 02:50

dc9-32

5th Sep 2018, 07:14

Do you mean John Wheelright ?

rog747

5th Sep 2018, 07:29

Did Monarch keep the seat back catering on the 3x 1-11's that they acquired from Court Line...?

Thanks

Offchocks

5th Sep 2018, 07:53

Do you mean John Wheelright ?

Yes I did mean John Wheelright, I was trying to be slightly discreet, failed again!:)

Offchocks

5th Sep 2018, 07:57

Did Monarch keep the seat back catering on the 3x 1-11's that they acquired from Court Line...?

Thanks

Two of the 1-11s were ex Court Line and I think the third was from Bcal. The two ex Court Line aircraft had the seat back catering when I joined in '78, but how long those seats remained I'm not sure.

Georgeablelovehowindia

5th Sep 2018, 09:06

Great to see those Mayflys. I operated as a FO on the 28thJuly down to Milan with John "Woodright", then the following day down to Alicante with John McLean-Hall, what a great Captain and wonderfully funny fellow John McLean-Hall was... RIP.
Both flights were operated by G-AWWZ which was the aircraft that had a baggage fire in Faro seven years later.
Photo here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BAC_111-509EW_One-Eleven,_Monarch_Airlines_AN0368961.jpg

Yep, Norman and Sandy, on a line-check. It was Sandy who was shunted sideways at Luton by the dumper truck driver reversing furiously, blissfully unaware of the One-Eleven taxying past. He'd have been rendered blissfully unaware if Sandy had laid hands on him, but he wisely legged it.

John McLean-Hall, an absolute hooligan off duty - the stories are the stuff of legend. The only time I flew with John was jump-seating to Paphos, to rescue a crew who'd gone out of hours. I was expecting it to be a laugh a minute, and indeed the atmosphere was very relaxed, but impressively professional. Why on earth they never made John a trainer is a complete mystery.

What a shame he's no longer with us. Sadly, with the passage of time, we've said goodbye to a lot of nice people, Geoff 'Flooks' Foulkes being the latest.

Offchocks

5th Sep 2018, 12:36

Georgeablelovehowindia I know Sandy very well as we started on the same course and correspond on FB occasionally, I did not know about the dump truck though.
When on the 737 I blew over a "honey" cart that decided to back up behind number one engine whilst it was still running with the anti collision still rotating, number ones and twos everywhere!:yuk: The "honey" cart driver also legged it, no drivers licence.
I agree about everything you said about John McLean-Hall and sorry to hear Geoff Foulkes having passed away..

LTNman

7th Sep 2018, 16:16

Aug 23rd -Aug 29th 1985. Wednesdays and Thursdays were particularly light.

https://i.imgur.com/QPgLalp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/SXTsS9Y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fsThIXR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VJjIFB6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QURqqK2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/T0TqUBl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ThhN4Vq.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mgiK2JA.jpg

jensdad

7th Sep 2018, 19:21

Fascinating stuff, LTNman. Interesting to see some destinations that more or less disappeared, to be reintroduced again only when the low-cost boom came along, notably some Italian ones. Rimini in particular was a regular Britannia route from Newcastle back in the eighties.
Which was the airline with prefix 'PZ' who were operating 'CRRs' to Italian destinations? I'm guessing Altair operating Caravelles?

DaveReidUK

7th Sep 2018, 20:18

Which was the airline with prefix 'PZ' who were operating 'CRRs' to Italian destinations? I'm guessing Altair operating Caravelles?

Looks more like "FZ", which was indeed Altair's designator.

Mooncrest

7th Sep 2018, 20:22

Didn't Altair have a mini-base at Luton with one or two Caravelles ?

jensdad

7th Sep 2018, 20:23

Looks more like "FZ", which was indeed Altair's designator.
Ah yes, so it is (Think I need some new contact lenses). Thanks Dave.

LTNman

7th Sep 2018, 22:47

London European and their Viscount. I used to count the passengers off the evening flight and always thought they were doing well.

pppdrive

8th Sep 2018, 02:19

Didn't Altair have a mini-base at Luton with one or two Caravelles ?

We did indeed have a 'Base' at Luton with one Cvl operating ex Luton and one ex Gatwick. Monarch did our handling at Luton and we had our own Engineers at both airports.

dc9-32

8th Sep 2018, 05:30

Wednesdays in Winter often saw no movements for Monarch handling, or maybe just one Jetstream to BRU and back.

Mooncrest

8th Sep 2018, 06:33

Thankyou pppdrive. Was that something to do with a large Italian expat population in Bedfordshire ?

Falcon666

8th Sep 2018, 06:37

Fascinating stuff, LTNman. Interesting to see some destinations that more or less disappeared, to be reintroduced again only when the low-cost boom came along, notably some Italian ones. Rimini in particular was a regular Britannia route from Newcastle back in the eighties.

If my memory serves me correctly wasn't there a Brit B767 that left Luton to Rimini with just one pax on board, think it made the local papers as it wasn't near the end of the season with he/she being given VIP treatment all the way ( and then the following summer Rimini was ditched).

Haraka

8th Sep 2018, 08:15

Thankyou pppdrive. Was that something to do with a large Italian expat population in Bedfordshire ?
This was allegedly based on Italian POW's who stayed on . Even in the 50's it was a joke that folks asking directions in Bedford would prefix their enquiry with "Sir, If you speak English....?"

LTNman

8th Sep 2018, 08:31

Used to be an Italian POW camp just outside the airport boundary, as seen at the bottom of the photo with not a hint of a fence in sight to keep those bad boys inside. In fact they used to do odd jobs in the community I believe.

https://i.imgur.com/2sG8dEw.jpg

Allan Lupton

8th Sep 2018, 10:38

This was allegedly based on Italian POW's who stayed on .
Pre-War there was already a large Italian workforce in the Bedfordshire brickfields I believe. They'd have helped POWs to decide if staying on was worthwhile.

meleagertoo

8th Sep 2018, 12:28

not a hint of a fence in sight to keep those bad boys inside. In fact they used to do odd jobs in the community I believe.

According to locals the Italian prisoners were to a man heartily glad to be out of the war and were totally co-operative. There was no need for fences and they readily found work in the brickworks and in the extensive agriculture and market gardening in the area, and many ahd skill or trades that were of great use in those labour-hungry times. They were well liked by the locals, not least by the females and many married and settled down to stay, hence the wonderful Italian community in Bedford to this day.
There are real, authentic Italian grocery shops, butchers, a bakery and it is said they even import a truckload of grapes every year to make real Bedfordshire Italian wine. I don't know aboout that but the groceries, fruit, veg and filled rolls they sell are fabulous.
I know one or two of the originals who are still at work.

compton3bravo

8th Sep 2018, 17:05

Yes I can heartily agree with Meleager too having lived in Bedford for 20 years 1966-86. The local joke was if you were getting married the Italians were the ones to get in touch with starting with the catering, hairdressing and fashion! Some great Italian restaurants still going strong I believe.

pppdrive

8th Sep 2018, 22:44

Thankyou pppdrive. Was that something to do with a large Italian expat population in Bedfordshire ?

That certainly helped Mooncrest. The flights were chartered by another group company and at one stage I did approach Cranfield about either operating all or just some of the Luton flights from Cranfield due to amount of passengers living in the area. Unfortunately, time was fast running out for Altair and before we could go any further with Cranfield we were already in the last few months of operating.
Paul

Mooncrest

9th Sep 2018, 08:00

Interesting stories about Altair and Bedfordshire's own 'Little Italy'. I believe Glasgow also has a sizeable Italian community but not sure if the airlines ever exploited the opportunity. Anyway, enough thread drift from me.

Discorde

9th Sep 2018, 09:09

Britannia operated many flights to Ciampino (and Naples?) for Italian travel companies. Some of us took the trouble to do our PAs in the language to make our passengers feel more at home:

Signore e signori, sono lieto di dar vi il benvenuto a bordo. Stiamo volando ad una quota di

FL 290 nove mila metri
FL 310 nove mila e c(h)inque c(h)ento metri
FL 330 diec(h)i mila metri
FL 350 diec(h)i mila e sette c(h)ento metri

e la nostra veloc(h)ita e di otto c(h)ento chilometri l'ora. Arrivaremo a ...... alle ore ...... ora locale. La temperatura a terra e di ...... gradi c(h)entigradi. Auguro a tutti un piac(h)evole volo.

The bracketed 'h' was to remind me of the correct pronunciation. The '800 kph' was a slight exaggeration for the 737-200 cruising at M0.72 (420 kts).

jensdad

9th Sep 2018, 11:20

Good stuff. I was on a flight from LGW to NAP, with a mainly Italian load, and as far as I could tell not a single CC member had a clue about even basic Italian. And this was on BA.

Allan Lupton

9th Sep 2018, 17:31

OT a bit, but I was a passenger on a flight from Pisa to Stansted where the safety briefing was only conducted in heavily Irish-accented English by a member of the CC. Not surprisingly about half the PAX seemed to be Italian and wore a bewildered look.
This being safety-related, as a former aviation person who'd flown with a few dozen airlines over 40 years, I took it on myself to write to the airline concerned pointing out that the rest of the airline world used pre-recorded tapes in the languages judged appropriate and asking what stopped 'em doing that.
It was brushed aside of course - I suppose they would now feel they could charge extra for an intelligible briefing.

vintage ATCO

9th Sep 2018, 18:58

My parents lived in Crawley Green Road during the war (and so did I from 1949 onwards!). They said that the Italian PoWs walked the streets looking for work and were well liked in the community. At night they returned to the camp.

Offchocks

9th Sep 2018, 21:18

Back in the late 70s and early 80s, Monarch use to have an Italian speaker on their Italian flights. I remember being introduced by one Italian speaker to her uncle at 1:00am on a extended transit at Palermo, he and his two companions looked straight out of the Godfather, perhaps that is how he got the airport cafe opened for us!

VictorGolf

10th Sep 2018, 09:40

Pal of mine was a steward back in the BEA Trident days and after a heavy night in Paris, the French speaking stewardess went AWOL. Dave (not his real name) thought quickly and as he didn't speak French, read out the French bit on the HP Sauce bottle to the great delight of Economy but somebody up front took offence and he was "demoted" to domestic flights for a bit as punishment.

LTNman

10th Sep 2018, 10:40

One of the old airport magazines. Apron Controller was named as Barry Ward on page 3

https://i.imgur.com/kiKvyr0.jpg

cj241101

17th Sep 2018, 20:00

Bit of a long shot but I'm after info about Luton Flying Club Cessna paint schemes. Specifically their original straight-tail Cessna 150's G-ARZF, G-ASSO, G-ASUE, G-ASTV, G-ASVF after they were repainted with larger registrations sometime in the late 60's (more accurate dates would be even better!). Abpic has a photo of G-ASUE in a light brown scheme and the others were painted the same scheme; just looking for what colour. I think G-ARZF was maroon-red and G-ASVF - which languished somewhere behind the Shell depot in the late 70's - was a brighter red. G-ASSO possibly was the same colour. G-ASTV may have been dark blue. If anyone can confirm any of this it would be very helpful. Photographs on line - especially colour - are elusive. The price of colour film 50 years ago meant that photographs were restricted to the interesting stuff rather than the mundane - IIRC a 20 exposure film for my Kodak Instamatic was around £2.50 in the late 60's - more than a month's pocket money!

cj241101

17th Sep 2018, 20:06

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x533/g_avlp_luton_300471_91a9a41152d58e571e0cf6ec2982bc3c5aaafccc .jpg
Have since found this taken on 30th April 1971 which I think shows G-ARZF (red) and G-ASTV (dark blue) behind the Aztec.

https://imgur.com/a/Eimd3LH

vintage ATCO

18th Sep 2018, 08:47

Don't think this helps much, does it? :-)

1965

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1196x863/65_4_22_gasue_luton_7be62abf6a79d9411e6afb8a5fe21e3c36d3b0bf .jpg

cj241101

18th Sep 2018, 17:41

Don't think this helps much, does it? :-)

Thanks vintage ATCO. It helped when I did the original G-ASUE a couple of years ago. The aircraft C of A expired in 1990 and it doesn't seem to have flown since 1986, hence the lack of online photos. It is, however still registered to the same owner in Ware who bought it from the flying club on 1/7/76. It was in fact restored YESTERDAY (17th Sep) after the CAA cancelled it last week (11th).

Origin of photo below, dated 23/5/76, unknown:-
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x690/g_asue_luton_230576_f37e1749c5717740c6e08b5e027512c48993a54b .jpg

The other Club straight tailed Cessnas were painted the same scheme as referred to earlier but photos of them as such are elusive.

staircase

19th Sep 2018, 06:28

It is interesting to see it again, (G-ASUE) even if only a photograph.

Went on the first solo in her in August '67!!

Thanks for the memory.

cj241101

19th Sep 2018, 08:20

As promised weeks ago here are some 1980 mayflys:-

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x1091/fri_110780_862f854dcf705995ffc9086279d9ee87fe93814f.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/gUMoIrA.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x1091/sun_130780_35bcfd698ff4b223c3fab466ee4fe9460ff062ad.jpeg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x1091/mon_140780_1cd5823069435bd5f5e5ebe8638bb255bad7f681.jpeg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x1091/tue_150780_d4b246dfbed1f0380c01cdeec0d4ec10690235f2.jpeg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x1091/wed_160780_5b3282e79f3c4ad7783c00304dc5e332531ed307.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x1091/thu_170780_4a54d86afd066567648ef26bf6c1ace2f48b16a4.jpeg

cj241101

19th Sep 2018, 08:56

The following week was similar apart from Tuesday, with more Scandinavian flights, which seemed to follow a 3 week cycle.

https://i.imgur.com/y6nnR2m.jpg

The OM150/151 flight (and the OM200/1 on Sundays) was to Tel Aviv - there was much paranoia about displaying the destination anywhere, so all the check in signage and flight information boards only showed the flight number. Staff were under strict orders not to say "Tel Aviv" in front of the public or - even worse - over the hand held radios. Same applied to aircrew communicating on the company ops frequency. Not sure about ATC - possibly it was "Monarch 150 cleared to destination as filed".

Level bust

19th Sep 2018, 10:12

We did indeed have to clear it to destination! The funny thing was, I think it may have been 1982, but Maof, with their 720s and Middle East Airlines (MEA) with their 707s were operating at the same time it wasn't unusual to see them parked next to each other!

Interesting seeing the old mayflys. Two things stick out. One was the 1-11 departure most mornings at 2 am, bet the locals loved that! Also 1980 was the start of Corfu becoming very popular, on some days there were 4 flights. I went in the August of 1980 with Monarch on a 720 and the crew were saying they spent half there time going there!

thegypsy

19th Sep 2018, 11:08

Ah yes Corfu. Downwind left hand avoiding Albanian airspace on the Southerly runway and taking off from it usually at night full power on the brakes and off we go down a bumpy runway with an emergency turn if an engine goes. Road behind closed hopefully as blast would knock anybody stupid enough to ignore the stop signs. Those were the days.

Awful smell when aircraft doors opened.

vintage ATCO

19th Sep 2018, 16:53

You could always tell the Tel Aviv flight as it was the one that had the security Land Rover in front of it leading it to the runway . . . . . :rolleyes:

almost professional

19th Sep 2018, 17:44

Those Mayflys take me back.......

wallp

22nd Sep 2018, 14:52

22/04

22nd Sep 2018, 16:49

LGS6753

22nd Sep 2018, 20:22

Which airline was "HS" operating DC 8 50s?
And which was "WL" also operating a DC 8 from Istanbul?

HershamBoys

22nd Sep 2018, 20:55

WL might have been Bursa.

HB

cj241101

22nd Sep 2018, 21:53

WL might have been Bursa.

HB

Yes it was, Bursa Hava Yollari to give them their full name, weekly on Mondays summer 1980, Heres a rather poor quality picture of TC-JBV on 12/5/80:-

]https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x547/tc_jbv_luton_120580_bce0b669e3f4207d15b4cbfd7b476cc48739df10 .jpg

airliners.net have decent pictures of their other aircraft TC-JBY and TC-JBZ:-
https://www.airliners.net/search?airline=13879&display=detail

HS was Aeral who leased Overseas National DC-8 N9110V and also only operated summer 1980 on Italian routes.

rog747

23rd Sep 2018, 18:07

Bursa TC-JBV was an old Air Spain -21
Isla de Menorca EC-CDA

N9110V was HB-IDU ex Balair and operated in their colours but with Aeral titles.
a -55F series

As for when those 02.00 departures finally ended ?
At Monarch out of Gatwick we still had a Monday night B757 to Corfu at 0140 (Club 18-30 types) in Summer 1986
It was often late because by now it was the aircrafts 4th rotation of the day - albeit the departure was now into Tuesday morning.
The hot meal/snack I recall was a cheeseburger yuk!

I happened to notice some 0100 departures this summer out of MAN - they still go on in a few places it seems

I see the 1985 mayfly has KG Orion BX Spantax and KT British Airtours (who have 2 Palma dep's well after 0000 73A and a L-1011 both operating a W)

cj241101

23rd Sep 2018, 21:39

N9110V was HB-IDU ex Balair and operated in their colours but with Aeral titles.
a -55F series

)
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aeral/Douglas-DC-8-55CF-Jet-Trader/493764/L?qsp=eJwtjEEKAjEMRe%2BStQuLIDg7vYAuvEBIPjo4Tksa1DLM3Y3F3eM9 eAtJnh0fv7YCGqiCTe60ocLGz0rDQg%2B0dzYNpvmQ0vYVtWbzUwuj7DiKoD j078%2BmsF9ClT66xTgFwC6dabcPr2MtE/cHnMeJ1vULHb4uSg%3D%3D

kenparry

24th Sep 2018, 06:19

Small-hours departures:

Sometimes they were the result of route licensing restrictions. In about the mid-80s, Britannia managed to get route licences to both Malta and Cyprus, after endless objections by their home-based airlines. This was long before the current era of unrestricted routes for EU airlines.

One of the licenses - I think it was Malta - included a condition that departure from the UK had to be within some deeply unfriendly time bracket, something like 0001 to 0400. This was, of course, an attempt to protect the traffic of the home airline.

There were other reasons, too. For example, Corfu at that time was limited to daylight ops only, so there were occasionally Britannia rotations that were timed to get there at first light. That meant leaving LTN at something like 0100. Lovely. Around the end of the 80s there was a slight improvement to the approach lights at Corfu, and night ops were deemed to be acceptable. So the silly times departures ended, but night arrivals at CFU could be less than a barrel of fun, especially when CBs were banging around the place.

boeing_eng

24th Sep 2018, 11:54

They may have been quiet days but look how many Britannia flights were going in/out across the day - far more than the paltry TUI flights today

BY's sizable flying program from LTN ended in 1993 with the withdrawal of the hard-working and flexible 737-200 fleet. Aspects of the program such as the MOD flights to Germany were never going to continue on the 757/767
so of course these ceased and the base reduced to 2 x 757's as flying from other airports increased.

boeing_eng

25th Sep 2018, 21:36

Some brilliant old pics which have just surfaced from the collection of Vernon Murphy....

https://flic.kr/p/zUHrvR

https://flic.kr/p/VpGWrX

https://flic.kr/p/qxADH3

https://flic.kr/p/ANtseT

https://flic.kr/p/WUEQ8A

https://flic.kr/p/zGwPuj

cj241101

26th Sep 2018, 09:36

Some great pictures there boeing_eng, thanks for posting them. Cyprus leased the Aer Turas Brit EI-BBH from Sep 1976 until April 1978. It operated each Wednesday from Larnaca as the CY1048, carrying mostly fruit and veg, departing back to Larnaca via Basle on Thursday morning as the CY1049. It was replaced by CL-44 G-AWGT (later 5B-DAN) leased from Tradewinds which operated the same flight but from Gatwick.
Ambassador G-ALZZ was leased to Skyways Coach Air during 1968, operating from Manston as the runway at Lympne/Ashford was too short. During and after the lease it lost the white line below the window cheatline - something I had forgotten until seeing the above picture. Not sure how much flying it did when it returned from lease, but it was scrapped around June 1969. Autair's other Ambassadors had already gone by 1969 - G-ALZS was written off after a landing accident at Luton on 14/9/67 while G-ALZV, reported as withdrawn from use on 28/1/68, was scrapped around June 1968.

chevvron

26th Sep 2018, 10:21

Does anyone remember when those insane hours departures died out i.e. 00.20, 01.00 etc. I can remember hearing One-elevens rumbling off in the 70s just as I was settling down to sleep and arrivals around 08.00 as I was cycling up to the airport.
In '69/70/71 I lived on the Luton departure route to the Med and I worked shifts at London ATCC as an Air Traffic Control Assistant.
When at home, (just west of Bovingdon) we were often woken any time between 1 am and 5 am by Luton departures.
When at work, I would finish a 'first half' night shift at 3 am (starting at 8pm) with a Luton departure awaiting its slot time and get home just before 4 am in time to look east and see it climbing out of Luton.

boeing_eng

26th Sep 2018, 16:33

A few more from the same collection......Some very well looked after slides!

https://flic.kr/p/AkXYcZ

https://flic.kr/p/X8CDua

https://flic.kr/p/zQaJkE

https://flic.kr/p/MKrxbj

vintage ATCO

26th Sep 2018, 17:51

The early morning departures use to keep me awake too, and that's when I was at work!

cj241101

26th Sep 2018, 20:46

A few more from the same collection......Some very well looked after slides!

Thanks again boeing_eng, exceptional quality for photos dating as far back as the late 60's. I remember the Autair Vikings (only just !) from 1967. Both were parked up on 1/10/67 and were officially reported "withdrawn from use" but continued to fly occasional freight charters until both were ferried to Soesterborg on 15/2/68.
The Eagle Brit G-AOVK arrived for storage early 1969 and languished until Feb 1970 when it was broken up.

cj241101

26th Sep 2018, 20:48

The early morning departures use to keep me awake too, and that's when I was at work!

Had the same problem.... I remember Monarch operating 1-11's to Santiago in the early hours on behalf of the Association of Spanish Workers. We used to call them the Association of Spanish Insomniacs!

IcePack

27th Sep 2018, 11:34

Mooncrest

27th Sep 2018, 12:37

During the late 80’s summers Monarch Airlines used to get 18+ hours a day out of their 737s. You never got into a cold seat & the aircraft were never electricaly shut down. Today the infrastructure would make that impossible.
I expect three return trips per day was normal on the 'holiday jets' back then, not only on Monarch but Orion, Britannia et al. If longer trips like the Canaries or Greece were thrown in, maybe only two per day.

rog747

28th Sep 2018, 06:16

I expect three return trips per day was normal on the 'holiday jets' back then, not only on Monarch but Orion, Britannia et al. If longer trips like the Canaries or Greece were thrown in, maybe only two per day.

Back in the developing jet package holiday years-
Court Line and Autair managed 4 rotations a day - (remember all those 02.00 1-11 departures!)
sectors back then were much shorter - so say a Palma Alicante Rimini or Venice then a Palma was possible in a day

Even at MON/OM in 1986 when I was at LGW we had 4 rotation on a Saturday and a Monday with the 757 (with an 01.40 CFU departure)

the longer IT sectors such as TCI NCO and RHO from LGW were the domain of BEA airtours comets and 707's BUA VC-10's
and Dan Air comets, and the Monarch 720B's from LTN
Prior to the jets the Britannia was king on these routes

LGS6753

28th Sep 2018, 18:29

rog747

29th Sep 2018, 05:52

When I worked for Court Line in 1970, the one-elevens operated up to 4 rotations a day, with 4 "waves" - 0800, 1400, 2000, 0200. It was manic turning round up to 7 aircraft within about two hours - I seem to remember the record was 29 minutes!

That is exactly how I remember it too!
I was with VistaJet looking after Air Spain's movements - we also had 02.00 DC-8 departures - oh the joy!

dc9-32

29th Sep 2018, 11:22

Lets not forget the Air Bridge Merchantmans heading out of LTN around 0100-0200 on the Higgs paperboy runs !!

SpringHeeledJack

30th Sep 2018, 08:14

When you consider the many noise complaints these days and that most flights operate between 06.00 and 23.00, the old days of very noisy passenger flights heading off in the early hours would give today's complainants white hair! I remember VC-10's coming out of LHR heading eastwards at 9/10pm at night and the sound of the Conways reverberating for quite some time long after they'd passed overhead. At 2am it would have been disruptive to all slumbering souls.

dixi188

30th Sep 2018, 11:52

We should have kept a VC10 airworthy to fly around all airports once a year to remind any noise moaners what real noise is.

Simtech

30th Sep 2018, 13:22

Britannia did some of the maintenance on the RAF VC-10 fleet during the mid to late 1980s. They became a familiar sight (and sound!) at Luton.

LTNman

30th Sep 2018, 17:57

So what was officially the nosiest ever passenger jet, Concord perhaps?

tonytales

30th Sep 2018, 18:33

Noisiest?
Tupolev TU-114 followed closely by Concorde. Must admit I always found the Viscount annoying although admittedly not nearly so loud.

SpringHeeledJack

30th Sep 2018, 19:14

Noisiest?
Tupolev TU-114 followed closely by Concorde. Must admit I always found the Viscount annoying although admittedly not nearly so loud.

What about the CV880 and CV990's ??? There must have been a few of those thundering off the end of Luton's runway scaring the bejeezus out of the Inhabitants of Luton Hoo back in the day ;-)

cj241101

30th Sep 2018, 22:55

Try the IL-76. I remember one night one of those departing off runway 08 in the early hours, probably doing a car parts run for Vauxhall in the late 90's. The engines used to be slow to spool up, so the crew would apply take off power with the brakes still on until the engines had reached maximum thrust. This would take 20-30 seconds, during which most of Luton would have been woken up.
Possibly even worse, though, was a Turkish registered Hansajet early on 22/10/93. Presumably no-one thought such a little thing would need a night jet slot, so it was allowed to take off. Noise level equivalent to a Tornado on reheat.

vintage ATCO

1st Oct 2018, 16:38

Noise limits use to be 112PNdB by day and 102PNdB at night (no idea what they are now). We had a B727 depart one night off runway 26 which scored 115PNdB on the clapometer. Noise complaints were swift and many, particularly from Markyate. I can't remember whose B727 it was now, it was a foreign airline. A fine was imposed and to my amazement we actually got the money. I suggested that the money be given to the Markyate Village Hall fund and I believe this happened.

rog747

1st Oct 2018, 17:20

Well there won't be any TA Primera Ops then from LTN or BRS ever - they have just gone bust.

Sad though, some Monarch friends went to them after Monarch went bust a year ago today.

Wander00

2nd Oct 2018, 08:16

Glad someone has mentioned the employees, BBC just moaning on and getting dramatic about people having the minor once-off inconvenience of reorganising their holiday

LynxDriver

2nd Oct 2018, 22:24

I can remember being parked up at LTN waiting to pick up friends. Noticed a Boeing 727 carrying the logo of band Primal Scream. It was doing circuits I seem to recall. I think the 727 had been resident at the airport for a while previous to this. Can anyone confirm this please as I can't recall the year but it was when you could still park by the old spotter's bar. Thanks.

LynxDriver

2nd Oct 2018, 22:37

So what was officially the nosiest ever passenger jet, Concord perhaps?

Well it certainly had the nose for it! ;-)

compton3bravo

3rd Oct 2018, 17:05

Personally Aviogenex Tu-134s were the noiseast I heard at Luton but Spantax CV-990s (smoky joes) running a close second. The loudest ever was an EE Lightning at an air show at Binbrook in the mid 1980s. I thought my ear drums had gone at the time!
Did we ever had a CV-880 at Luton?

oldandbald

3rd Oct 2018, 19:03

Certainly N88CH CV880 visited in 1978 Aircraft N88CH (1961 Convair 880-22M-22 C/N 22-7-6-58) Photo by Peter Nicholson (Photo ID: AC956533) (http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000956533.html)

Level bust

4th Oct 2018, 10:31

The Phantom that did a low approach and go around was quite noisy!

vintage ATCO

4th Oct 2018, 10:39

Yes, he was told not to use afterburner on the go around . . . . did so, and busted London's airspace. :)

I believe it was all sorted out on the jellybone. :ok:

cj241101

4th Oct 2018, 15:11

Certainly N88CH CV880 visited in 1978
First visit I am aware of was on 29/8/78, arriving at 1857. It departed on 7/9/78, had returned by 13/9/78, departed at 1010 on 14/9/78, returned on 16/9/78, still present on 18/9/78. Last seen on 8/10/78. Photo below taken on 5/10/78.

https://i.imgur.com/OazKXgJ.jpg

Convair 880's were rare in Europe, with Swissair the only real operator and then only for a year in 1961/2 pending the delivery of their 990's. Air Viking (Iceland) briefly leased one in 1973 (TF-AVB).
Convair 990's were rare at Luton, with a few from Spantax summer 1984 the only series I know of. First visit by a 990 was probably Modern Air Transport with N5615 present 8-9/10/70. Only other European operators were Swissair with 8, S.A.S. with 2 leased from Swissair (mid-60's) and Internord of Denmark with 3 in the late 60's.

oldandbald

4th Oct 2018, 17:47

Phantom "go-around"

Not sure if that was the same one but I remember the late MGC letting a Phantom do a go around on 08 with a near vertical climb on re-heat. I was i/c at the time and casually walking across Stand 9 from the Terminal and the ground literally shook. A few phone calls and nobody said another word except perhaps " don't ever do that again !"

PAXboy

4th Oct 2018, 19:43

Nowadays, you'd be filling in paperwork and replying to emails and irate residents for months. :p

SpringHeeledJack

4th Oct 2018, 20:41

Think of all the car alarms going off! :-)

Manx

5th Oct 2018, 18:24

Glad someone has mentioned the employees, BBC just moaning on and getting dramatic about people having the minor once-off inconvenience of reorganising their holiday
I think both deserve some sympathy - those who went to work for a fast growing budget airline to quickly get re-employed and those who maybe could only afford to go on the holiday destination they chose due to the rock bottom prices available but might now have to stump up a lot more than they can actually afford for last minute replacement flights. The BBC are no different to how the rest of media have covered it.

LGS6753

5th Oct 2018, 19:12

I always thought that certain Caravelles really screamed on take-off.

YVRLTN

12th Oct 2018, 15:03

DaveReidUK

12th Oct 2018, 17:23

Slightly LTN related... I flew a Monarch 757 STN - BGR - BGI and back in December 1990 and I'm looking for the reg. I always thought it was MONC, but it was leased to Air Holland at the time so could not have been.

G-MONC was actually on the German register in December 1990 (as D-ABNY with Condor), as was G-MOND (as D-ABNZ). So the only candidates for your flight (assuming it was one of the G-MONxregistrations) would be B/E/J/K.

22/04

12th Oct 2018, 17:29

G-MONC was actually on the German register in December 1990 (as D-ABNY with Condor), as was G-MOND (as D-ABNZ). So the only candidates for your flight (assuming it was one of the G-MONxregistrations) would be B/E/J/K.https://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=10272273)

MONB was never ETOPS was it? the other three you mention all were I think though. Would suspect it would have been ETOPS on that run.Wasn't there noe not in the MON* sequence - DAJB?

DaveReidUK

12th Oct 2018, 18:15

Wasn't there one not in the MON* sequence - DAJB?

There were several, in fact.

I was assuming that the poster had got at least some of the registration correct. :O

cj241101

12th Oct 2018, 22:22

MONB was never ETOPS was it? the other three you mention all were I think though. Would suspect it would have been ETOPS on that run.Wasn't there noe not in the MON* sequence - DAJB?

Don't forget G-DRJC and G-MCKE.

Georgeablelovehowindia

13th Oct 2018, 12:20

MONB was never ETOPS was it? the other three you mention all were I think though. Would suspect it would have been ETOPS on that run.Wasn't there noe not in the MON* sequence - DAJB?

Monarch ETOPS 757s: G-MONB, G-MONE, G-MONJ, G-MONK, G-DAJB and G-MCKE.

UK - BGR was most certainly ETOPS, on the NAT Tracks.

The dates of your flights would be helpful.

LTNman

18th Oct 2018, 14:04

Seem to remember this airline hanging around Luton for a short while but were they Luton based?

https://i.imgur.com/06dQrRZ.jpg
Unknown source.

WilliumMate

18th Oct 2018, 14:51

Based Manchester 1987/88. Mediterranean Express only had this one I think.

SpringHeeledJack

18th Oct 2018, 15:37

Was that an ex-Air Bavaria machine ?

rog747

18th Oct 2018, 16:34

Was that an ex-Air Bavaria machine ?

No Med Exp had the 475's - they had 2 but one was knackered and although painted never flew (Ex Faucett Peru)

DaveReidUK

18th Oct 2018, 16:37

Was that an ex-Air Bavaria machine ?

No, it's one of the two former Faucett 475 Series that Mediterranean Express acquired. The other was G-AYUW, but I don't think ME ever operated it:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x533/g_ayuw_66bcf511d645f2a4ccc0bb3ef9ea347f22cfb2a8.jpg

SpringHeeledJack

18th Oct 2018, 19:55

So not just Paddington Bear came from deepest darkest Peru ;-) Thanks for the answers gents.

LTNman

19th Oct 2018, 17:40

So that last photo throws up a question. Who was European Airline Engineering as I don't remember them.

dc9-32

20th Oct 2018, 07:28

Med Ex was based at Luton, not Manchester, and in a McAlpine hangar. In fact the one where their broken 1-11 is seen. If you trawl through this thread, there are some further details about them and what they wanted to become. The 2nd 1-11 was ferried without autopilot from Mojave to Luton and never saw airline service.

arthur harbrow

20th Oct 2018, 09:44

Now, mention of Mediterranean Express brings to mind a sub charter by Med Exp out of Manchester, this charter was carried out by a Boeing 707 which caused a flurry of controversy.
Does anyone remember this?Was it the 707 was foreign registered?

rog747

20th Oct 2018, 10:57

compton3bravo

20th Oct 2018, 16:19

I can confirm that Med Express was based at McAlpine's at Luton. Spent many happy hours in ''operations'. Operated just a daily flight to Naples and back. Sadly only lasted one summer season.

dc9-32

21st Oct 2018, 08:16

Med Ex was busy during the summer covering sub-charters for Air UK, BMA etc. I had many a happy moment hurtling down GCI's runway with a full load of 89 plus bags !!

arthur harbrow

21st Oct 2018, 11:10

Reference my previous post, apologies because looking back at my notes the airline concerned was not Mediterranean Express but GLOBE Mediterranean, a Manchester based airline.

22/04

21st Oct 2018, 17:20

Med Ex was busy during the summer covering sub-charters for Air UK, BMA etc. I had many a happy moment hurtling down GCI's runway with a full load of 89 plus bags !!

Bet you glad of the 475 then

squeaker

24th Oct 2018, 18:27

Going back to Monarch 757 G-MONC, yes it did go to Air Holland on a three year lease. First year it stayed on the G register (flown by us Monarch pilots with Dutch cabin crew) before going on the Dutch register for two years. Think it was 96-99 if I recall correctly.

DaveReidUK

24th Oct 2018, 20:46

red 5

27th Oct 2018, 11:19

G-MONC when it was at Air Holland was registered PH-AHO.

lotus1

27th Oct 2018, 14:12

With regards to the MEA 707 in 87 Page and moy chartered this a number of times for there Day trips to formula 1 trips my brother went on this from Heathrow to nice for the Monaco GP he said what a rocket ship

LTNman

12th Nov 2018, 08:19

1965. Looks like work is about to start on the terminal
https://i.imgur.com/3IHknDA.jpg
A Duxman

compton3bravo

12th Nov 2018, 08:40

The British Eagle Brit is G-AOVT which flew the last commercial passenger flight by a Britannia in Monarch colours and is now on display at Duxford. Quite poingant.

22/04

12th Nov 2018, 08:50

LTNman

12th Nov 2018, 15:47

I am guessing the apron was being expanded as part of the new terminal build that had yet to start and that would replace the wooden terminal and this was the last section of apron waiting to be completed.

cj241101

13th Nov 2018, 09:33

Does anyone remember what it was doing at Luton in 1965. And what is the cut out in the apron. Interesting selection on the Mc Alpine apron including a Piaggio - anyone know what DC3 it might have been.

From the short shadows and the sun position it looks like a summer afternoon, although the haze in the background might indicate some early morning mist or fog, so the Eagle may have diverted in. No idea about the DC-3; Autair had 4 in service in 1965 so it could have been one of theirs, although parked in a strange place if it was. Possibly it could be the ex-Mercury Airlines G-AMSN which was sitting around the airport when I first visited summer 1967, with Mercury having ceased ops in October 1964. The Dove behind the 2nd Britannia Brit looks like the Coal Board G-ARUM which was based.

GotTheTshirt

17th Nov 2018, 08:21

When I first came to Luton 1961 that area that is being reworked (top right) was grass ! Where that truck is under the e of Macs sign was the taxiway out to the runway !

compton3bravo

20th Nov 2018, 09:06

For what it is worth I think the DC-3 could be the Handley Page hack G-ATBE which landed at Luton to clear customs or used Luton when Hatfield was closed.

cj241101

20th Nov 2018, 15:37

For what it is worth I think the DC-3 could be the Handley Page hack G-ATBE which landed at Luton to clear customs or used Luton when Hatfield was closed.

G-ATBE was certainly common through 1967-1969, usually routing Radlett-Luton-Pau and back. It was first registered on 23/2/65 but wasn't actually registered to Handley Page until 3/6/67 (on which date it arrived from Gatwick, departing to Radlett on 9/6/67), which was a couple of years later than the photo.

LTNman

4th Dec 2018, 07:41

The second photo with the old Air France titles still just about visible was also used by Handley Page and can be seen passing through Luton.

https://i.imgur.com/UnpFq98.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QAWdsLH.jpg

cj241101

4th Dec 2018, 14:37

The second photo with the old Air France titles still just about visible was also used by Handley Page and can be seen passing through Luton.

Was this actually used by Handley Page? They had already gone bust when this aircraft (N16399) transited Luton on 26-27/9/69 en route Orly-USA. Sister ship N16400 followed on 3/10/69.

vintage ATCO

11th Dec 2018, 14:27

Dated Sep 1953, WF119 Sea Prince T Mk 1 (annotated on the back of the photo), to Royal Navy then A&AEE Boscombe Down 1951. Used for various trials. Scrapped in 1963. Luton Flying Club Auster J1N Alpha G-AIJI and Prince Srs.III YV-P-AEB of Compania Shell de Venezuela. This airframe was variously G-AMLW, VH-AGF, G-AMLW again, F-BJAI, G-AMLW, F-BJAI, VP-KRN and finally F-BJAI! Broken up at Shoreham in 1975.

Napier's hangar under construction and the perennial Hangar 9.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x598/1953_sep_wf119_g_aiji_yv_p_aeb_15d2bb0f992a2e0eeca85a92f5d4f bbcd9bee1aa.jpg
Posted with photo owners permission but original photographer unknown.

LTNman

12th Dec 2018, 12:36

Quite a historic photo. We have had this discussion before but that wooden building was actually Luton's first terminal rather than the building under the control tower. The steps under the wing is the entrance as seen below but the above photo sort of proves it. The building belonged to Eagle I seem to remember.

https://i.imgur.com/J5GNO7X.jpg

Duchess_Driver

12th Dec 2018, 20:11

treadigraph

12th Dec 2018, 21:12

Air Malta apparently had N48059, ex Cathay VR-HGA for a while in late 70s. Don't recall ever seeing it, just their 720s.

cj241101

15th Dec 2018, 07:54

Air Malta had some CV880s on lease late 70’s possibly early 80’s - they were regular(ish) visitors to Newcastle. Did they never venture as far south as Luton?

Seem to remember the green colour scheme and smoke was horrendous. N reg if I recall- but Oriental in origin????

Can't find any trace of a LTN visit. Manchester photos here:-
Convair 880 North West Air News (http://derbosoft.proboards.com/thread/3491/convair-880)

LTNman

9th Jan 2019, 16:34

Only photo I have seen of Luton's second visiting 747

https://i.imgur.com/pcvUzTa.jpg
Gordon Wilson

LTNman

10th Jan 2019, 15:36

So who used the lookout?
https://i.imgur.com/gEqASsO.jpg

vintage ATCO

10th Jan 2019, 17:18

Only photo I have seen of Luton's second visiting 747

Third. Luxair one on a Britannia subcharter in the 70s (?) and a BA one in 1992 diversion from Heathrow.

It first diverted to Prestwick but when it got up country the weather went out in Scotland so the crew declared an emergency and came to Luton. I vectored it onto the ILS. It was only when it was on final we discovered it had Prince Andrew on board!

That's me in my car behind waiting to do a runway inspection after its departure. I don't recall it causing any damage.

Sorted the pic! A Dave Gearing photo.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x409/b747_1992_4_d1bd6c597d5df778903d0e86a0042da024403c9c.jpg

vintage ATCO

10th Jan 2019, 17:19

So who used the lookout?

Apron Control

thegypsy

10th Jan 2019, 19:37

I can just imagine what that BA crew were saying about Luton airport before they took off as they taxied out:E

LTNman

11th Jan 2019, 13:48

The first 747 departure was rumoured to have damaged some of the lighting with jet blast.
The second one (BA) was stuck at Luton until a tow bar was collected from Heathrow.

https://i.imgur.com/Zb6NLyZ.jpg
Gordon Wilson

vintage ATCO

11th Jan 2019, 16:51

The first 747 departure was rumoured to have damaged some of the lighting with jet blast.

it did. We didn't have runway shoulders in those days so many loose stones were blasted towards the elevated runway lights.

The second one (BA) was stuck at Luton until a tow bar was collected from Heathrow.

Yes, but not for long. It departed the same day.

It was parked nose in. It was only later we worked out the top of the tail penetrated the 1:7 transitional slope (see CAP168 if you are bored :-) ) Subsequently, B747s on the south apron were parked nose out.

cj241101

11th Jan 2019, 19:34

Third. Luxair one on a Britannia subcharter in the 70s (?) and a BA one in 1992 diversion from Heathrow.

10/7/87 was the date for the 1st 747 (LX-KCV) at Luton. IIRC Britannia had tech problems with 2 737's, both going to Faro, and chartered the Caribbean 747 to carry both pax loads. Use "Go to page 32" where there are more 747 photos and other info. Here's another of G-AWNF 28/9/92:-

https://i.imgur.com/GuzjPa8.jpg

LTNman

12th Jan 2019, 17:52

With MAEL joining Monarch into the history books we remember the opening of their new hangar.

https://i.imgur.com/dtpJNkC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/X5IQiYd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mWIJ2je.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/abiWFqL.jpg

SpringHeeledJack

12th Jan 2019, 18:49

Out of interest and in simple terms, why has MAEL gone into liquidation ? Part of, but separate from Monarch Airlines owner's company, it had lots of clients needing Mx and so on ? What changed ?

compton3bravo

12th Jan 2019, 19:00

boeing_eng

12th Jan 2019, 21:54

A summary of the challenges MAEL faced after the failure of the airline.....

https://www.mro-network.com/maintenance-repair-overhaul/new-year-brings-sad-end-monarch-saga

cj241101

13th Jan 2019, 07:27

Was there not some Air Atlanta B747s in the 1990s? I think I can remember one on a Manchester United charter t/f Barcelona and one or two whale watching charters to Iceland. Apologies if this has been mentioned before.

Air Atlanta TF-ABG did a Monarch sub on 4/6/99 which was parked on the south apron. I think the Man Utd flights which operated on 17/5/00 were operated by Corsair. Air Atlanta had around 10 whale watching flights planned May/June/July 2001. These were the only 747's ever scheduled to operate a series through LTN, with other visits all ad-hoc or diversions. 4 flights operated in May, 1 in June then 2 in July, with the remainder getting cancelled. They were parked at a 45 degree angle on stands 47/48:-

https://i.imgur.com/nlTFBX8.jpg

Here's TF-ATF on 15/7/01 being pushed back - very carefully - from stands 47/48 on to the Delta taxiway:-

https://i.imgur.com/TOj0ygf.jpg

rog747

13th Jan 2019, 07:57

Blimey so LTN saw some of the oldest 747's in history grace the tarmac -
The Cargolux owned (not Luxair) Caribbean Airways example 747 was as equally ancient as the 2 Air Atlanta above and the other Cargolux ( Lion Air ) examples,
plus the BA 747-136 shown.

The Virgin G-VLAX was also very old ex QF "City of Darwin" 1974

Did the Orion Air N751PA (the flying pig) ever come into LTN?

cj241101

13th Jan 2019, 09:35

Did the Orion Air N751PA (the flying pig) ever come into LTN?

No - N751PA was with Orion (US) in 1989, operating mainly for Air Europe from LGW and MAN, then went to Evergreen as N476EV at the end of that year. To spares at Marana in 1992.

One 747 I'd forgotten about was BA G-BDXJ which operated a Britannia sub to (or from?) Las Palmas on 23/12/04, parked south stands. My anorak log has it routing LGW-LTN-LPA but the flight number BY116B suggests it may have been the other way around.

rog747

13th Jan 2019, 09:47

No - N751PA was with Orion (US) in 1989, operating mainly for Air Europe from LGW and MAN, then went to Evergreen as N476EV at the end of that year. To spares at Marana in 1992.

One 747 I'd forgotten about was BA G-BDXJ which operated a Britannia sub to (or from?) Las Palmas on 23/12/04, parked south stands. My anorak log has it routing LGW-LTN-LPA but the flight number BY116B suggests it may have been the other way around.

BDXJ was op#g for European then I guess

cj241101

13th Jan 2019, 10:02

N751PA was, of course, ex Pan American who managed the occasional visit to Luton in the 70's operating subs for the resident airlines. Only 707 I know of was N766PA on 25/7/71 on a Britannia flight. 727 N323PA on 11/8/73 was probably operating for Court Line, then this one (N356PA) on 24/7/78 was probably doing a Britannia trooping flight, arriving as "Clipper 159F" (which must have raised a few eyebrows when it called Luton Approach). Apologies for the picture quality:-

https://i.imgur.com/IlcFKlO.jpg

Same aircraft was back on 7/9/78, BY918 from Hanover, then N329PA on 12/9/78. It was a summer of horrendous ATC delays (the French - surprise, surprise) and the holidays airlines were bringing in a variety of aircraft to bail things out - Aeroamerica 720, Trans European 707, Balair DC-8, BA Trident, Geminair 707, S.A.T.A Caravelle, Lufthansa 727 were amongst the aircraft used during the peak summer.