LUTON History and Nostalgia [Archive] - Page 13

GotTheTshirt

9th Mar 2018, 15:23

BP, Yes the Lockheed flight computer predicated the drift down performance was recalculated every 2,000 feet for burnoff. They found that they could improve the range by re-calc every 500 ft !!
Of course the aircraft did not know any difference !!!
Re South Africa, the Sikorsky did pasenger/ freight supply to ships going round The Cape Town and they did lose one in the sea so they bought one from San Francisco to replace it. Apparently it was quite a challenge because the ships did not want to slow down or change course so in some cases the choper had to run backward when dropping the load !!!

vintage ATCO

9th Mar 2018, 16:50

It was great when the Lockheed people were over training Court Line pilots. Having a L1011 in the visual circuit was most entertaining.

A touch and go was called a 'crash and dash'. One day I had the aircraft in the circuit and he called for a touch and go but instead of accelerating, late down the runway, all the reversers came on and it shuddered to a stop at the end. Am American voice came on, laughing, 'he touched the brakes, we hadda stop!' - I gather the spoilers deployed.

lotus1

9th Mar 2018, 17:11

As mentioned when I was in Durban in 1999 I did fly in a jet ranger with NAC Airlines from Virginia airport Durban the pilot told me court Helicopters had a contract to drop pilots out to ships of the coast of Durban.I must say the S61 I saw was in a bit of a sorry state.With regards to Courtlines Tristar Did they do crew training flights at stanstead .

ATNotts

10th Mar 2018, 07:39

Did they do crew training flights at stanstead .

Probably not, put perhaps Stansted

I wonder why it is that London'd third airport is mis-spelt so regularly, not just in these forums, but also throughout the media. Is there some sort of glitch in spell checking software. Curiously, not far from me there is a road "Stanstead Avenue" which is surely another example.

Allan Lupton

10th Mar 2018, 08:07

Probably not, put perhaps Stansted

I wonder why it is that London's third airport is mis-spelt so regularly, not just in these forums, but also throughout the media. Is there some sort of glitch in spell checking software. Curiously, not far from me there is a road "Stanstead Avenue" which is surely another example.
Old English place names are a bit of a minefield: Stansted Mountfitchet after which the airport is named is not too far from Stanstead Abbotts, so perhaps your "Stanstead Avenue" example is not an error.

Level bust

10th Mar 2018, 09:30

A touch and go was called a 'crash and dash'

Slight post drift. I once spent 3 hours doing touch and goes in an RAF Tristar at Brize, every landing felt as though we fell out the sky!

canberra97

11th Mar 2018, 13:51

Probably not, put perhaps Stansted

I wonder why it is that London'd third airport is mis-spelt so regularly, not just in these forums, but also throughout the media. Is there some sort of glitch in spell checking software. Curiously, not far from me there is a road "Stanstead Avenue" which is surely another example.

I'm exactly the same as yourself as I find it so frustrating especially when you see it spelt that way on aviation sites, typical of journalism though such as The Sun newspaper to spell it that manner.

It's not as if the airfields name has ever changed during it's lifetime as it has always been called STANSTED.

vintage ATCO

11th Mar 2018, 14:22

We always called it Essex Regional Airport . . . . . ;)

canberra97

11th Mar 2018, 15:27

Surely you mean Southend:-) and that definitely isn't a dig at Southend whatsoever!

GotTheTshirt

13th Mar 2018, 21:04

ATCO, do you remember a Piper Arrow do a gear up landing on the Grass runway at Luton ?

cj241101

14th Mar 2018, 09:04

Anyone help with identifying where this photo was taken? The website I found it on says "Leeds June 68" but it is pretty obvious it's at Luton. The aircraft - Ethiopian Air Force Douglas C-54 - sat at the airport for 5 days at the end of June 1968. I'm just puzzled as to where exactly it's parked.

https://i.imgur.com/bymDfxr.jpg

vintage ATCO

14th Mar 2018, 10:13

I would say it is next to stand 1. There is something behind it that is probably on stand 1, the hangars to the right look right but the skyline and tail (BAC1-11?) on the left don't look right.

cj241101

14th Mar 2018, 10:34

I would say it is next to stand 1. There is something behind it that is probably on stand 1, the hangars to the right look right but the skyline and tail (BAC1-11?) on the left don't look right.

That's the conclusion myself and a colleague have also come to. The aircraft behind the C-54 is probably Falcon 20 N111AC which visited twice while the C-54 was present (26/6-1/7/68). Hangars 7/8 and 61 had blue doors. Hangar 60 I believe was always grey. The 1-11 tail looks like Autair but where is it? It could have been taxying out but seems too far away, and where is hangar 62? The last lighting pylon on the north side was between hangars 61 and 62, so the latter should be there to the left of the C-54.
I'm starting to think the photo may have been edited to remove obvious Luton features like hangar 62 with "Autair" on it then post it as "Leeds 1968". Apologies to whoever if I'm jumping to conclusions.

LTNman

14th Mar 2018, 10:57

ATCO, do you remember a Piper Arrow do a gear up landing on the Grass runway at Luton ?

No Arrow but this aircraft also had a mishap. No idea when though.

https://i.imgur.com/cDk829M.jpg
(Edit) David Gearing Collection

vintage ATCO

14th Mar 2018, 11:11

20 Jun 1977 G-BAKD PA-34 on a local flight from Elstree unable to lower the nosewheel. After burning off fuel it diverted to Luton to land on the grass. 4 PoB, no injuries, little damage to the aircraft. The photo is from the David Gearing Collection.

There have been many aircraft over the years landing on the grass with the gear up. I remember an Arrow which, I think, had one main wheel stuck up. It eventually landed all up on the grass.

LTNman

14th Mar 2018, 11:31

I can remember the former tip in the background. As can be seen no fence in those days. I took a walk from the tip and got too close to the airport as I was asked what was I doing.

vintage ATCO

14th Mar 2018, 11:33

That's the conclusion myself and a colleague have also come to. The aircraft behind the C-54 is probably Falcon 20 N111AC Good spot, N111AC was often parked there. Here's a pic I took on an early summer's morning in 1968

https://i.imgur.com/3VCCy8V.jpg

and a DC-3 where I think the C-54 is

https://i.imgur.com/AHSxgIN.jpg

Kodachrome 25.

LTNman

14th Mar 2018, 11:51

A Radlett based Handley Page DC3 no doubt calling in at Luton for Customs clearance. Think they had more than one if my memory serves me right. They went bust in 1969 or 1970 as my father was working there.

They all went to work on that fateful day and were told to go home. For many of them they would come to work in company provided buses which did not take them home. My dad was allowed to take home anything he could carry.

Later as a youth I went there with my father and picked up some documents scattered on the floor as a souvenir.

No lighting towers in the above photo unlike the previous page but it is clearly the same location.

GotTheTshirt

14th Mar 2018, 12:24

Yes that area in front of Macs was all grass and the edge of the grass was the concrete Taxiway. Where the DC3 is was the side of the taxiway that was extended into parking

l.garey

14th Mar 2018, 13:26

I don't remember an Arrow doing a wheels-up, but there was a Gardan Horizon in, I think,1972 but on the main runway, which remained closed for a while.

Laurence

canberra97

14th Mar 2018, 13:39

Has anyone got any photos of the Aeroamerica B707 that was languishing away at Luton during the early 1980's, if I remember correctly wasn't it parked up to where the grass runway was situated?

lotus1

14th Mar 2018, 14:11

cj241101

14th Mar 2018, 14:19

Has anyone got any photos of the Aeroamerica B707 that was languishing away at Luton during the early 1980's, if I remember correctly wasn't it parked up to where the grass runway was situated?

This one? Actually a B720-022 i.e. no aerial on the fin.
https://i.imgur.com/bFWnrCw.jpg
N7201U 20/7/79

Think it was left in the engine run bay before being broken up in July 1982.

or do you mean N751TA? which was a 707-123B, broken up March 1982 (no photo but here's a link):-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pslg05896/30613672214/sizes/l

cj241101

14th Mar 2018, 14:33

great old shots of Luton airport in the Saint Monday evening, Plenty of Brittania airways Brittanias Autair ambassador and a shot of a Invicta Dc4 but the invicta horse was missing.The Saint arrived on a Dove Luton airport was classed as Zurich in the show?
Watched it a few months ago, dated 1966 I think. Colour photos of G-ASUW are elusive, so it was a bonus when it appeared on TV. Registered to McAlpine at the time.
https://i.imgur.com/yW8vqmN.jpg

The DC-4 was G-ASZT which was Autair's but spent most of its life on lease, including Invicta who used it in the summers of 1966 and 1967. Sold in the Republic of Congo as TN-ABC 15/5/68.

ericlday

14th Mar 2018, 14:39

Without doubt the most interesting thread on Pprune. Thanks to all the contributors, keep up the good work with information and picrures. Cheers.

treadigraph

14th Mar 2018, 15:01

This one? Actually a B720-022 i.e. no aerial on the fin.

Do you know, I'd never noticed that some 720s lacked the HF antenna!

lotus1

14th Mar 2018, 19:48

There was another 707/720 parked in the engine test Bay Area around85/86. Local press said a night club owner was going to buy it and turn in to a bar /club. He ran out off funds and aircraft was broken up.

EGGW

14th Mar 2018, 19:51

That was N7201U, which was the prototype B720, aka Starship, been on this thread a few times :ok:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Starship

LTNman

14th Mar 2018, 21:42

Without doubt the most interesting thread on Pprune. Thanks to all the contributors, keep up the good work with information and picrures. Cheers.

Yes this is the thread that keeps on giving with over 3000 replies and almost three quarters of a million views.

Anyway back to the Aero America.

Competition time. What does the blue tail in the bottom picture belong to?

https://i.imgur.com/d7XLjCD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/n3r3wSt.jpg

canberra97

14th Mar 2018, 21:48

This one? Actually a B720-022 i.e. no aerial on the fin.
https://i.imgur.com/bFWnrCw.jpg
N7201U 20/7/79

Think it was left in the engine run bay before being broken up in July 1982.

or do you mean N751TA? which was a 707-123B, broken up March 1982 (no photo but here's a link):-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pslg05896/30613672214/sizes/l

Many thanks for the quick response and the link and photos, it was the Boeing 707-123B seen in the second photo I was referring to in my previous post as I remember seeing it over by the engine run bay around 1980/81 and I notice from your comments that it was broken up in March 1982, I wasn't aware of the Aeroamerica B720.

mustbeaboeing

14th Mar 2018, 22:22

Blue Tail in post 3036...could it be Air Foyle Piper Aztec?

I was told the B720 B’s, as used by Monarch, HF aerial was ‘IN the fin” but wondered if anyone can confirm ?

dc9-32

15th Mar 2018, 06:37

Competition time. What does the blue tail in the bottom picture belong to?
- Air Foyle Aztec ??

cj241101

15th Mar 2018, 09:09

Competition time. What does the blue tail in the bottom picture belong to?
- Air Foyle Aztec ??
G-FOYL. Air Foyle's other Aztec G-AWDI had the registration on the fuselage.

Georgeablelovehowindia

15th Mar 2018, 15:21

Blue Tail in post 3036...could it be Air Foyle Piper Aztec?

I was told the B720 B’s, as used by Monarch, HF aerial was ‘IN the fin” but wondered if anyone can confirm ?

Monarch's 720Bs had the HF fin probe: https://www.planespotters.net/photos/reg/G-AZFB

:ok:

vintage ATCO

16th Mar 2018, 09:46

In post #2886 LTNman posted a pic of a Tempest and Lincoln in a hangar but some of us doubted it was Luton as we couldn’t recognise the hangar. The following pic has been posted elsewhere and the back of the pic clearly identifies it as Luton.

Nov 1945
https://i.imgur.com/O2WyCdr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CDF3wdr.jpg

By looking at aerial pics of the period I think I have identified where it is. In the following two pics I think that long hangar is on the right of both pics and the two black hangars on the right in the first pic must be the rear of hangars 24 and 26.

1951
https://i.imgur.com/P1WwLuZ.jpg

https://imgur.com/rddr1nV1946
https://i.imgur.com/gwOi5Gj.jpg

Anyone disagree? 😊

Tempsford

16th Mar 2018, 10:14

I concur, all three hangars are still there. Google Earth Satellite verifies this. Either H 24 or 26 still has the rails in the floor for the dollies to allow the Napier Lincoln to be hangared sideways.
Tempsford

Alan Baker

16th Mar 2018, 10:33

Monarch's 720Bs had the HF fin probe: https://www.planespotters.net/photos/reg/G-AZFB

:ok:
From photographic evidence, the only 707/720s that lacked the HF probe were US domestic aircraft, specifically, American's 720s (but not their 707-120s), United's 720s and TWA's 707-120s. As far as I'm aware all other 707/720s had the probe.

GotTheTshirt

16th Mar 2018, 13:37

When Autair got the Vikings from Germany ( D-BONE ?? and D-BORA ??) they decide to cut costs - By crew training at Panshanger.!
All went well until on a T&G they retracted the gear but the aircraft sank and the props clipped the ground. As the prop tips bent back and the aircraft “ settled” they selected the gear back down. Grass airfield so no one hurt ( only pride!) When we go there the aircraft was sitting on its belly and props bent. We thought OK pump the gear down and drag it clear. Jacked it up and pumped the gear down but it would not extend ???. Pulled the nacelle panels off and behold – The gear actuators had fully extended but the gear was already being pushed up into the nacelle. The gear rams had fully extended but the gear was fully retracted so the shiny portion of the rams were like a trombone !!

boeing_eng

16th Mar 2018, 14:13

From photographic evidence, the only 707/720s that lacked the HF probe were US domestic aircraft, specifically, American's 720s (but not their 707-120s), United's 720s and TWA's 707-120s. As far as I'm aware all other 707/720s had the probe.

TWA retrofitted a couple of early 707's with tail HF Antennas for transatlantic ops. They were removed when the a/c returned to domestic duties

Some 707's had a second HF Antenna (not probe) on the R/H wing to allow a dual HF set-up

lotus1

16th Mar 2018, 14:18

OUAQUKGF Ops

16th Mar 2018, 16:00

GotTheTshirt - very interesting post about Autair Viking training at Panshanger.

Do you recall the same sort of thing happening again to an Autair Viking at Stansted whilst on a training detail? The late John Handley was one of the crew and he told me that the Stansted SATCO roared up to the aircraft in his Land Rover and loudly berated the crew for damaging "my grass" - sod the damage to the aircraft or any cuts and bruises to the crew. This would have been well prior to 1966 when I joined Autair. I suppose it could well be the same incident and John muddled up Stansted and Panshanger but I think not. On reflection I remember John saying that one of the main landing gears collapsed on landing and they swerved off the Runway. The SATCO's first arm-waving words to the crew were "Look what you've done to my grass! Look Look!"

LTNman

16th Mar 2018, 18:29

In post #2886 LTNman posted a pic of a Tempest and Lincoln in a hangar but some of us doubted it was Luton as we couldn’t recognise the hangar. The following pic has been posted elsewhere and the back of the pic clearly identifies it as Luton.

post 2886

https://i.imgur.com/SvjumXp.jpg

Yes well spotted. Even the camouflage lines up

https://i.imgur.com/OqeuHOi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/y8JtAHB.jpg

GotTheTshirt

16th Mar 2018, 18:56

Ops, I remember John Handley but not the Stansted event.
There was a Stansted event that ATCO may remember. The Airspeed Amabassadors had a quite large nose cone that was hinged at the top and had a toggle type fastener at the bottom. It was access for the hydraulic sysytems and some radio equipment. Normally it was locked closed of course but in normal flight airflow kept it closed anyway. The aircraft departed Luton for crew training. I think that the captain was Stezeyak ? and Liz Overbury was copilot training. All went well until the stall !! The cone opened fully and smashed against the windshield. Quite a mess and of course the drag/ turbulence must have been pretty daunting!. Anyway they diverted to Stansted and landed OK. !

cj241101

16th Mar 2018, 19:58

Yesterday on itv4 the protectors.Good old shots of Courtlines hanger and Aircraft.Robert Vaughan collected a packet from Courtlines Navajo G.AYEI. Also in the background invicta vanguard a couple of Britannias old Brits and also a Donaldson Bri. The Nostalgia could have been 71/72 the registration on van used in film was the letter J.
Think you're right. The last Brit Brit was withdrawn from use at the end of 1970 but 2 of them (G-ANBE and G-ANBL) waited until July 1972 before being scrapped. Invicta Vanguards operated May 1971-Oct 1975. Donaldson Brits were regular on maintenance from Dec 1970-Dec 1972. Car registrations starting with the letter J were issued from 1/8/70. All fits 1971/72 ! Missed the programme, though, might find it on catchup.

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Mar 2018, 08:38

Regarding the incident with the Ambassador nose cone the late Liz Overbury described it thus in Graham Simons' book 'Colours in The Sky':

"They were interesting times flying with Autair. On an early qualifying flight aboard the beautiful Airspeed Ambassador I was doing a series of stalls in an area between Luton and Stansted, flying with Captain Jan Szczesiak, when the nose-cone came loose and flipped up against the windshield, totally obscuring his view and much of mine. He was marvellous, briefing me to call directions left, straight ahead, or right and calling out what I thought of height from my view down to the landing, when the cone went down and he could see to control the aircraft on the landing run and taxi.
I had many flights with Jan, and as we both shared a love of animals, he showed me many European zoos when we had stop-overs. I could never understand why he ate so quickly and walked so fast until I found he had been a prisoner of war - it must have played hell with his life. He never mentioned these times to me, but otherwise I found him a real joy to fly with and he happily shared a wealth of flying knowledge with me - sadly he is no longer with us. I could never three-point a Viking, but I did get the knack of feather-bedding the Ambassador and the One-Eleven!"

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Mar 2018, 12:46

Georgeablelovehowindia

17th Mar 2018, 13:38

cj241101

17th Mar 2018, 21:47

Some 707's had a second HF Antenna (not probe) on the R/H wing to allow a dual HF set-up

BOAC 707-436's for s start used to have them, certainly in the early days. I only know this because I remember it on my Airfix model from 50 years ago!
Boeing 707-436 - BOAC | Aviation Photo #1538434 | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/BOAC/Boeing-707-436/1538434/L?qsp=eJxtjjEOwjAMRe/iuVMDVMpGF0YYuIDlfCBSaSPHA1XVu5O0EhObn5/1/ReSaTR87D4nkKcMVnlRQ4mV35n8QhxVlB/Wc46yn7Wuc81PXDBC/yvy3eFYOE9q/VzyAxvOIkiGQPv%2BqgFaFbJsj5%2B1SFtH6G0ndyoYYk4DbykwjgOt6xcnt z6w)

22/04

18th Mar 2018, 12:12

The two ex American aircraft were 707-123Bs, not 720Bs

Georgeablelovehowindia

18th Mar 2018, 14:22

The two ex American aircraft were 707-123Bs, not 720Bs

G-BCBA and G-BCBB were Boeing 720-023Bs, inherited from Invicta and passed on to Maof. I flew both of them with Monarch, and had to do a half day differences course in order to do so.

There was also the Boeing 707-123B G-BGCT which I also flew with Monarch, which went to Cyprus Airways.

DaveReidUK

18th Mar 2018, 14:24

The two ex American aircraft were 707-123Bs, not 720Bs

As well as the four former AA 707-123Bs, Monarch also operated two ex-American 720-023Bs G-BCBA/B in the late 1970s.

ZeBedie

18th Mar 2018, 16:42

Bill Buxton's (Autair's Engineering Director) Bone Yard Circa 1963? Ambassador G-AMAF was purchased by Autair for spares. Click on image to see this and images from the heyday of British Charter Companies. PhotoCredit Tony Clarke Collection.

https://flic.kr/p/9jjGVG

That's a real treasure trove of old photos. Maybe you should start a new thread here, to give people the chance to add some information? Many are 'location unknown', including the one where you can read '...ovenrty' on the terminal roof!!!

OUAQUKGF Ops

18th Mar 2018, 17:04

ZeBedie that's a good idea. Perhaps you would like to do it. I suggest you contact D.C.W. or Tony Clarke first.

This is an old post that I have found on PPrune which refers to the photos mentioned above by you.

D.C.W.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5

I notice a reference to the old photos on my Flickr pages.
The pics from the 1950's and 1960's are mostly quick scans from a collection of negatives taken by an enthusiast called Gerald Lawrance. He was based in the Cambridge area, and travelled a lot throughout East Anglia and the South East. The earliest shots are from 1948, when he was a teenager, and come from Airshows as well as airports and smaller airfields. They cover a very wide spectrum of types both military and civil, and although they are of variable quality, the 4000 odd negatives make up a significant archive.
When Gerald died, the collection went to Tony Clarke (who is very much still with us ). Since his recent retirement, Tony has spent a lot of time scanning and researching the photos. We both felt the pictures deserved a wide audience, and I have been adding them to my Flickr Photostream and posting selections on the Flypast Forum. There are still a lot more to be worked through. It is frustrating that very little information on exact dates and locations has survived, and research has been very time consuming.
So if you like Geminis and Messengers, Beaufighters and Valiants, Bristol Freighters and Tudors, take a look at:
Flickr: David Whitworth's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwhitworth/)
The pictures are of variable quality, and you will have to put up with my own more modern sets, but if anyone can add to the (limited) research, I would be grateful for info via Flickr or E-mail.
Thanks for the opportunity to plug the link, I wish I could claim more credit for the photos.
DCW

22/04

18th Mar 2018, 18:11

As well as the four former AA 707-123Bs, Monarch also operated two ex-American 720-023Bs G-BCBA/B in the late 1970s.

Oops Sorry forgot about those- was away at University when they passed to Monarch- remember them being with Invicta and I think Somali when I was around. Maybe Cyprus too?

OUAQUKGF Ops

18th Mar 2018, 18:38

G-AHPB at Panshanger in 1962 having been purchased by Autair. Photocredit the late Peter Fitzmaurice
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/abpic-media-production/pictures/full_size_052/1078949-large.jpghttps://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_052/1078949-large.jpg

OUAQUKGF Ops

18th Mar 2018, 18:45

G-AHPB Avio Resto Soesterberg Holland 1968. Photocredit J.Zwart.https://www.sberg-movements.nl/afbeeldingen/1968/2897.jpg

OUAQUKGF Ops

18th Mar 2018, 19:31

G-AGRW at LTN circa 1965. Note replacement rudder probably the result of a pilotless light aircraft writing itself off against RW at Blackpool in July of that year. Photo-credit the late Gerald Lawrance Tony Clarke Collection.https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5254/5455619217_2afc358b07_b.jpg

LTNman

18th Mar 2018, 19:32

Found this on the Flickr link from the previous page that is clearly Luton. Copying the URL link is producing the photo for some reason.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwhitworth/5455753821/in/photostream/

OUAQUKGF Ops

18th Mar 2018, 19:57

G-AGRW also went to Soesterberg, later to Vienna Airport Terminal Roof then a spell outside a McDonalds at Schwechat before ending up very very tired at the Austrian Aviation Museum at Bad Voslau where photographed by Stu Carr April 2 2017.https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2935/33311076363_7c6a905808_b.jpg

LTNman

20th Mar 2018, 10:52

So what is the story here then?

https://i.imgur.com/uDnz8Wd.jpg
Published previously by Steve J Roberts but taken by David Gearing

l.garey

20th Mar 2018, 11:00

https://www.pprune.org/9541226-post1748.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76497384@N02/34628439715/

F-BPFN BE.55 Baron being transported to Luton Flying Club for possible repair - Dave Gearing Collection - Slide [94]

Laurence

vintage ATCO

20th Mar 2018, 11:07

Known affectionately by us as 'Mad Alphonse' it flew computer tapes for Barclays Bank (I think) twice a day to and from Toussous Le Noble. Called 'mad' because he flew everywhere very fast, often leaving it to the last minute before dropping the gear on short final.

I was in the tower seat at the time of the accident. A BAL B737 at hold A (now C1) said "That aeroplane has crashed!" "So he has" I said as I pressed the crash alarm. He had the gear down but the left main gear collapsed on landing (as he went abeam the B737) and the aircraft ended up on the grass south of the runway. Unfortunately during 'recovery' the right main gear was collapsed and other damage was done which I think totalled the airframe although I understand subsequently it was taken by road to Leavesden so it might have been repaired.

He took off one day, in a hurry as ever. Some while later, he called back on tower, crossing the channel, "Please check with Shell, it says Avtur on the fuel invoice!!" A phone call later we could definitely say it had been fuelled with Avgas! https://www.facebook.com/images/emoji.php/v9/f4c/1/16/1f642.png

The pic is from the David Gearing Collection BTW.

almost professional

20th Mar 2018, 11:37

The Tale told by Spiney is he was found next to the Baron shouting 'I need my fags, I need my money'! forever cancelling IFR on the taxi out and requesting VFR

cj241101

20th Mar 2018, 12:14

"Fox Fox Novembeur" was repaired and reappeared on 22nd Oct 1979, only being cancelled from the French register as "reforme" on 22/8/94. I remember seeing it south of the runway on 2nd Feb 1979. By 4th Feb it was somewhere by stand 8 - possibly on a flatbed truck in the baggage loading bay - and was moved into hangar 9, but had gone from there by the afternoon of 6th Feb, which is the date of the Dave Gearing photo. Aztec F-BRSP took over most of the flights, which were indeed twice daily on most weekdays; lunchtime and early evening.

https://i.imgur.com/dOSqShN.jpg
F-BPFN 22/7/80, slightly different colour scheme so must have had a respray after the repair

https://i.imgur.com/R4dyN6R.jpg
F-BRSP 10/2/78

Jhieminga

20th Mar 2018, 19:04

G-AHPB Avio Resto Soesterberg Holland 1968. Photocredit J.Zwart.
Great photo! If anyone's interested, I've got some more information about this cafe and its three Vikings on my site, see here: The Vikings of Soesterberg (http://www.vc10.net/History/vikings_of_soesterberg.html)

LTNman

21st Mar 2018, 06:09

Over the years I keep hearing about the David Gearing collection whose great historical photos appear here on occasions. So who is or was David Gearing?

Also thank Jhieminga for the great link.

vintage ATCO

21st Mar 2018, 08:00

David Gearing was an ATCO at Luton Airport for many years and he and I were on the same watch. He took early retirement and moved back to his native Eastbourne, I think, and died a few years ago.

I know who has his extensive photographic collection.

GotTheTshirt

21st Mar 2018, 14:29

Vikings were know to be a bit nose heavy and at Autair empty Vikings were taxied and flown with 300Kg ballast bags at the back of the rear hold. There was a Baggage trolley permanently based on the ramp with the ballast bags.
of course in @pre Computer@!! days it did sometimes happen that aircraft arrived with a full load plus ballast !!!
One of the Vikings was sold to a Southend operator whose crew came to pick up the empty aircraft. We asked if they he would ensure that the ballast was returned to Luton. Not wanting the hassle they said take it off now which we did. We later got a phone call saying guess what happened in Southend !!
Yep on the nosed up !!

boeing_eng

21st Mar 2018, 20:57

Good old Dave Gearing...always wondering around airside with his camera...

Before the days of the multiple Ops vehicles that now constantly roam airside , Dave would regularly shout and gesticulate at any vehicles he considered were driving too fast airside! We usually just waved back at him....;)

22/04

22nd Mar 2018, 18:08

What's the DC4? behind the Viking in the picture
of RW

canberra97

22nd Mar 2018, 20:03

It actually looks like an Argonaut.

OUAQUKGF Ops

23rd Mar 2018, 09:13

Judging from the livery possibly C54 Skymaster G-ASZT ? Obtained by Autair January 1965 to Air Trans-Africa as VP-YYR August 1965. Photo-credit airphotographicinternational, photographer unknown.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0347/7793/products/G-ASZT_Douglas_DC4_Autair_Airways_Luton_1967_1024x1024.jpeg?v= 1392060606

OUAQUKGF Ops

23rd Mar 2018, 09:40

Photo Credit Dave Welch.http://www.dc-4.co.za/10640%209J-RBL%20Air%20Trans%20Africa%20Dave%20Welch.jpg

cj241101

23rd Mar 2018, 11:16

Photo Credit Dave Welch.http://www.dc-4.co.za/10640%209J-RBL%20Air%20Trans%20Africa%20Dave%20Welch.jpg
Photo must date from early 1966. Restored to Autair as G-ASZT on 8/3/66 and spent most of its time on lease to Invicta. The previous photo I believe dates from 1967 and looks to have been taken behind hangar 62. The Invicta stripes are still present on the tail. I remember seeing the aircraft in this scheme - minus the black circle where the Invicta horse used to be (still visible in the Saint episode referred to in https://www.pprune.org/10083385-post3029.html), sometime late '67 or early '68.
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/105592096711996086441/album/AF1QipMDLU5vDCEzYObdrRO_3M7_xERvZiiZSx-izy-G/AF1QipPuoCiS_Xr3fT75Gq9PY7TMvEGZtO6C_U25rmBW
Only picture (origin unknown) I have is this one:-
https://i.imgur.com/1BaI2VS.jpg

Here's a link to a better one:-
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DC-4_G-ASZT_Invicta_MAN_20.08.66.jpg

Aircraft sold as TN-ABC 15/5/68, surviving until 7/1/87 when it was damaged beyond repair by an engine fire in Zaire.

OUAQUKGF Ops

23rd Mar 2018, 18:19

At Luton 1966. Credit aviationphoto company.Photographer unknown. cj241101 you were spot on with date 1967 for first image!
http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/img/s/v-3/p577982140-3.jpg

cj241101

23rd Mar 2018, 22:25

Further info on G-ASZT - it departed to Wymeswold on 20th March '68 where it was presumably prepared for delivery as TN-ABC. Delivered Wymeswold -Gatwick 15th August '68 en route to Aero Service Africa, Brazzaville. Found a rather poor B&W photo in Air Pictorial if anyone is interested.

OUAQUKGF Ops

24th Mar 2018, 09:32

Autair's B170 G-AIFS Luton 1966. Scrapped 1968. Did it ever fly?
Photograph by Ken Fielding.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/G-AIFS_B.170_Freighter_21_Autair_LTN_14MAY66_%285662867194%29. jpg

boeing_eng

24th Mar 2018, 11:18

Looks like a flyer in the picture here...

https://www.airphotographicinternational.com/products/g-aifs-bristol-170-freighter-mk21-luton

SpringHeeledJack

24th Mar 2018, 12:54

Was it involved with Spain somehow, what with the flag on the tail ?

Also, when did B170's peter out in service ? I'm sure that one visited Ringway in the 90's.

OUAQUKGF Ops

24th Mar 2018, 14:39

Previously EC-ADL one of three B170s obtained from Aviaco by Aviation Traders Southend in part-exchange for Carvairs.

cj241101

24th Mar 2018, 14:41

Was it involved with Spain somehow, what with the flag on the tail ?

Also, when did B170's peter out in service ? I'm sure that one visited Ringway in the 90's.
G-AIFS flew as EC-ADL for Aviaco 1948-1961 before getting sold to Autair on 31/1/61. Hence the Spanish flag. It was the only surviving Mk.21. It had been withdrawn from use long before the photo of it rusting away, probably at the back of hangar 62, was taken in May 1966. By June 1967 it had been relocated to the grass north of the Autair Helicopters hangar. I remember seeing it there, in pieces, in December 1967.
The longer nose Mk.32 Superfreighters continued in service with Midland Air Cargo until early 1973, having seen service with Silver City, Channel Air Bridge then British United Air Ferries (later British Air Ferries), mainly on cross-channel vehicle ferry services.
Instone Air Line then acquired a Mk.31 from New Zealand in March 1981. Although sold in Canada as CF-DFC on 20/12/88, it remained in the UK until its unfortunate demise in an accident at Enstone on 18/7/96. Instone also briefly had a 2nd Mk.31, G-AMLK from 10/9/82 to 4/4/84.

https://i.imgur.com/mw8OGE4.jpg
G-BISU Luton 28/8/81

https://i.imgur.com/UnkVQal.jpg
G-AMLK Luton 15/9/83

OUAQUKGF Ops

24th Mar 2018, 20:52

Press Photo currently offered on well-known auction website. The hostess on the left is lovely Cherry Mason whose image appears on Autair timetables of the period.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/202239373320-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

SpringHeeledJack

24th Mar 2018, 22:30

Thanks for the knowledgable replies. As to the Manchester sighting, it was most likely the crashed B170, a bit more info here https://www.flickr.com/photos/gcdnz/11285219064

cj241101

3rd Apr 2018, 22:02

Anyone go back far enough to remember when the ground frequency started to be used? Originally 123.55 but it changed to its present 121.75 probably mid-70's.

vintage ATCO

4th Apr 2018, 12:11

cj241101

4th Apr 2018, 12:43

123.55 was never a GMC frequency but Luton Director (App was 129.55 even then). We started using 123.55 as GMC when it started to get busy, maybe very early 70s, and got a mild b@ll@cking for it from the CAA (or whatever they were called then). As some wag put it 'Luton Director on the Ground'. 121.75 came along soon after and 123.55 became 128.75 in time.
Thanks vintage ATCO for a comprehensive answer. I guessed around 1970 when I first noticed aircraft being transferred to "ground" which was of course the start of the Court Line era.
At one time I can remember no less than 5 frequencies being in use. Approach on 129.55 was overloaded with GA aircraft wanting zone transits, radar service or flight information, including all the aircraft out of Denham/Leavesden/Elstree heading to the Cheddington training area. "Luton Director" as I think it was known on 128.75 was for inbounds and outbounds, with "Luton Radar" on 127.3 used for SRA's on to 08 before the ILS was installed that end.
At some stage the tower frequency was changed briefly to (I think) 133.975, probably in the early 90's before 132.55 was allocated.

vintage ATCO

4th Apr 2018, 15:26

Tower use to be 120.2 when I started which we shared with Shannon and Lille. Cubana Brits en-route Russia-Cuba but with a tech stop at Shannon used to call Shannon for their weather over BPK. And a certain HS125 out of Coventry for Lille use to call them in our overhead. He told me to be quiet one day so he could copy their weather! My reply was not approved phraseology.

We also shared 127.3 with Cherbourg and on good high pressure days could sometimes hear their controllers.

We had a UHF Freq for a time 378.6 (I think?) for any mil wanting a zone transit.

Happy days!

22/04

4th Apr 2018, 17:59

Think Luton Tower was briefly on a 119.XXX (119.92?) frequency after 120.2 and before 132.55 but don't remember exactly what - never remember 133.975. I think GND started to be used in 1969- sure I remember "Autair Golf Golf Papa approaching holding point Delta") using it. Was 128.750 ever used, however briefly too?

127.3 and maybe 123.550 was used for SRAs to 26 before the ILS was fully available (1969?) of course.

I loved listening to SRAs and that tense moment when one waited to see if the aircraft had landed. Eastern Europeans and Sterling Caravelles seemed "best" at marginal conditions. And that high pitched whine which seemed to always be in the background.

Discorde

4th Apr 2018, 18:01

From the UK AIP 21/11/69:

https://steemrok.com/LTN%20comms%201969%20v2.jpg

cj241101

4th Apr 2018, 18:13

Think Luton Tower was briefly on a 119.XXX (119.92?) frequency after 120.2 and before 132.55 but don't remember exactly what - never remember 133.975.
22/04 I think you're probably correct - 119.975 rings a bell. 133.975 also rings a bell - could it have been the ATIS frequency for a short while before it became 120.575?

cj241101

4th Apr 2018, 18:20

From the UK AIP 21/11/69:
Thanks for publishing the above - lots of interesting info there. Not least the runway heading 262M, now of course 255M. Runway 07/25 I believe is imminent.

cj241101

4th Apr 2018, 19:41

I loved listening to SRAs and that tense moment when one waited to see if the aircraft had landed. Eastern Europeans and Sterling Caravelles seemed "best" at marginal conditions. And that high pitched whine which seemed to always be in the background.
Balkan operated the TU-154 into the airport on Saturdays during summer 1984. I was initially puzzled as to why they had 5 flight deck crew. Two pilots and a flight engineer, yes, but what did the other two do? Air marshals? KGB agents? I soon cottoned on to one of them being some kind of navigator as he seemed to spend the turnround studying Jeppesen charts. The pilots rarely spoke to any of the ground/handling staff and communication was always through the other (5th) flight deck member. For the departure he occupied the jump seat behind the 2 pilots and donned a headset. Discreet enquiries revealed he was actually the interpreter - he handled all radio communication with ATC and translated their instructions to the pilots.
So what happened during a half mile SRA on to 08? The one day I was despatching the aircraft in bad weather i.e. cloudbase 200ft, can't remember the RVR's, runway 08 was in use. I had a trainee with me, so, just to show off a bit, I had my little airband radio with me and we sat in a despatch car around stand 16 listening to ATC doing the SRA talkdown. At a late stage in the procedure, the instruction "you're left of track, turn right 3 degrees" was passed. We then heard a loud roar as the aircraft came practically over the top of us as it initiated a go-around. I often wondered if the ATCO doing the talkdown realised he wasn't actually talking to the pilot flying the plane, and that his (or her) instructions needed translating before being actioned. Obviously not translated quickly enough, at least not on this occasion.

https://i.imgur.com/BdpZlWt.jpg
LZ-BTR 6/10/84

OUAQUKGF Ops

5th Apr 2018, 08:53

1965 Outside the Autair Hangar (Erected 1964) Photographed by the late Paul Howard.

CCTV was installed on the roof of the ops office here in late 1966 which gave us a splendid view of arrivals on R/W26 having previously been obscured by the new terminal. Have listened to many SRAs relying on the skills of the Controller to get our old kites in.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x714/1090423_large_0271d63a6f419b98e85c9e2938a8903a0d4f5522.jpg

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_060/1090423-large.jpg

vintage ATCO

5th Apr 2018, 15:20

I did 524 half-mile SRAs on the Plessey ACR430 in my time (I was sad enough to log them all), starting on 2 Nov 1971 and my last with MO421 Beech 200 on 2 Feb 1986. It was shortly after that the radar head caught fire and we lost it forever. Air Spain Coronados were exciting, you had to talk very fast!

YVRLTN

5th Apr 2018, 16:55

I have a record of Airtours DC-10 G-TDTW 25/8/01, a rare -10 at that. Where did it operate to? Did anyone operate DC10 into LTN after that? VarigLog maybe?

Brookmans Park

5th Apr 2018, 17:28

I remember a dark and dirty winter night in 71or72. Cloudbase 300ft,south east wind,we
were all doing double AMS in the 1-11,shipping football fans. Most made multiple approaches having broken cloud right over the apron on the first one

oldandbald

5th Apr 2018, 17:53

Out of interest, and I’m sure Vintage ATCO would agree , that the SRA to 08 , particularly with a crosswind, was not easy. At about one and a half miles, coincident with ridge where the M1 motorway is, the effect of drift changed rapidly so you had to be quick to adjust for that. After a few, and I have done more than a few, on that day, you got the hang of it and started adjusting the heading before the “ridge” . However to complicate things the ridge produced a PE (Permanent Echo) so you also had to make sure you tilted the aerial up, not too much!, so you could see the blip but not the PE. I won’t even go into rain/snow clutter. It was a long time ago now .:)

cj241101

5th Apr 2018, 18:12

I have a record of Airtours DC-10 G-TDTW 25/8/01, a rare -10 at that. Where did it operate to? Did anyone operate DC10 into LTN after that? VarigLog maybe?
The Airtours DC-10-10 was based for peak summer 2001 from 23rd July, staying until October - I last saw it on 10th October. It did the usual Mediterranean routes - think its longest sector was probably Larnaca.
Last DC-10 commercial passenger flight I have on record was Electra Aviation SX-CVP on 25th Aug 2002 operating for MD Airlines to Preveza.

https://i.imgur.com/M4ekCwi.jpg
SX-CVP 25/8/02
Only Varig example I saw was PP-VQY on 22nd March 2006. Subsequent visits used the MD-11F.

https://i.imgur.com/L5nYvoC.jpg
PP-VQY 22/3/06

vintage ATCO

5th Apr 2018, 19:18

Out of interest, and I’m sure Vintage ATCO would agree , [rest snipped]

Yes, totally agree. A NE'ly wind was the worst but as you say, after a few to get your eye in, you got use to applying the correction before it was needed. I never understood why certain individuals insisted on everyone swapping round after a while 'to have a rest'. If you've done 5 SRAs, you may as well do 45, as I did one day.

It was my practice to rest the ball of my left thumb on the ridge of metal of the central console so I could operate the aerial tilt switch with my index finger. On more than one occasion I caught the aerial rotation switch and switched the bl@@dy scanner off!!

lotus1

5th Apr 2018, 19:29

What happy memories seeing the Electra Dc10 . Flew on this when it belonged to Skyjet airlines .When the Spanish property boom of the 80s was in swing so many ticket company's like Avro chartered a number of company's my late parents bought on the Costa blanca .I flew out from gatwick on Ambassador airways 757 should have flown back on European airlines A300 got to Alicante informed they had gone bust don't worry the ticket agent said there's a plane in its place wow a Skyjet Dc10 awaited to take us back. Only problem when landed at gatwick no luggage bins on the plane .All of this hand placed in the hold it took over 2hrs for luggage to come through they where the days.

cj241101

6th Apr 2018, 02:24

Can't remember what it came in for; routed Oslo-Luton-Gatwick on 2/10/94.
https://i.imgur.com/TNYIYay.jpg

LTNman

6th Apr 2018, 05:54

Nice background shot of the tower under construction. I can remember I think Vintage ATCO saying that they were taken up in a bucket to check out the view when the new tower was being designed. Was the chosen location the only one considered and is it still in the ideal location and right height?

I think at the time it was the second tallest in the UK.

ATNotts

6th Apr 2018, 08:08

Air Spain Coronados were exciting, you had to talk very fast!

For the sake of accuracy, these would either have been Air Spain DC8-21s, or Spantax Coronados - both noisy and smokey, and for enthusiasts at least, long lamented. Perhaps local residents who wound up with smuts on their washing, and hearing loss may not have been so enthusiastic!!

vintage ATCO

6th Apr 2018, 08:30

December 1992
That's me in the middle. The chap with the furry hat was from Aer Rianti who were the project managers. He didn't like heights!
https://i.imgur.com/7E9Lnee.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zSr0kpQ.jpg

We considered other sites on paper but didn't bother with the platform. It was the simplest for existing infrastructure, power etc.

ATNotts: Yes, Air Spain DC-8s, Spantax Coronados. Equally exciting!

ATNotts

6th Apr 2018, 09:11

Offchocks

6th Apr 2018, 09:47

I did 524 half-mile SRAs on the Plessey ACR430 in my time (I was sad enough to log them all), starting on 2 Nov 1971 and my last with MO421 Beech 200 on 2 Feb 1986.

Hi vintage ATCO, since you kept records, did you do a late night SRA for a Monarch BAC1-11 on the 8th June 1982, or it could have been the very early hours of the 9th June.
If so it would have been me, a very memorable flight as we ended up diverting to LHR due to the unforcast fog at Luton and not a great deal of fuel! :)

lotus1

6th Apr 2018, 12:58

Thanks for the happy memory of posting the Skyjet Dc10. I think the whole air crew where Belgium a happy lot .

boeing_eng

6th Apr 2018, 15:51

New Tower...Very unpopular at the time with the BAL Engineers who were evicted from their rather handily located car park!:}:}

vintage ATCO

6th Apr 2018, 16:23

Hi vintage ATCO, since you kept records, did you do a late night SRA for a Monarch BAC1-11 on the 8th June 1982, or it could have been the very early hours of the 9th June.

Not guilty! It was the other bloke. :)

Level bust

6th Apr 2018, 17:35

I was on leave, unless it was a really good one!

Offchocks

6th Apr 2018, 21:03

vintage ATCO Thanks for the reply. Level bust it was a good one so it may have been you!
The flight was a good example of no matter how well you plan, there are rare times the plan turns to rubbish. The company was not too happy I ended up in LHR in the middle of the curfew, but every where else went out in fog, some of them unforcast.

LTNman

7th Apr 2018, 15:56

Thursday was the 50th anniversary of Monarch

https://i.imgur.com/ChoaBxh.jpg
Published by LLA

cj241101

7th Apr 2018, 16:25

Thursday was the 50th anniversary of Monarch
Published by LLA
Luton-Madrid on G-AOVI followed by a Palma on 6th.
On a different tack, was the building on front right of the photo the original fire station? I seem to remember it was still there in 1977 being used by Lep Air who did Customs and cargo clearances. And does anyone remember when the "new" fire station was built? It was there when I took my first pictures back in 1969.
https://i.imgur.com/wjrNXfg.jpg
10/4/69

22/04

9th Apr 2018, 07:35

I would think around 1967/68. Was definitely there in August 68.

I have a vague memory of visiting LTN with my Uncle in 1965 and there being fire engines housed somewhere near the old tower/terminal in use then.

vintage ATCO

9th Apr 2018, 19:13

On a different tack, was the building on front right of the photo the original fire station? I seem to remember it was still there in 1977 being used by Lep Air who did Customs and cargo clearances. And does anyone remember when the "new" fire station was built? It was there when I took my first pictures back in 1969.10/4/69

No, the original fire station was further right, in line with hangars 8&9 although the watchroom was the other side of the road and attached to the Percivals/Huntings factory. In the event of the alarms sounding they had to run across the road. They had a wonderful old fire appliance with polished brass. It ended up in a museum somewhere.

This fire station was in use when I started in 1967 but the 'new' one was built very soon after.

vintage ATCO

9th Apr 2018, 19:42

In this pic from 1963 the fire station is slightly left of centre in line with hangars 8 & 9. You can see the appliances parked outside. The watchroom was over the road on the corner of the Percival factory, the building with the low black roof.

https://i.imgur.com/ujIvr7I.jpg

cj241101

9th Apr 2018, 22:00

Thanks for the replies which have answered my question. Interesting line up in the photo, presumably a Caribou outside hangar 9.

vintage ATCO

10th Apr 2018, 05:06

Yes, previously identified on this thread as Kuwati AF.

Former Firefighters confirm current fire station come into use in 1968.

Haraka

10th Apr 2018, 05:46

There were about a dozen of those Caribous being ferried through from Canada on to the customer (Ghana?). I remember one batch coming in overhead my house as a stream-first time I had seen the type.

LTNman

10th Apr 2018, 05:53

No, the original fire station was further right, in line with hangars 8&9 although the watchroom was the other side of the road and attached to the Percivals/Huntings factory. In the event of the alarms sounding they had to run across the road. They had a wonderful old fire appliance with polished brass. It ended up in a museum somewhere.

This fire station was in use when I started in 1967 but the 'new' one was built very soon after.

Don't think that was the original fire station at Luton. I think it was at the base of Luton's first control tower as seen on the right hand side of this photo which is around stand 13/14

https://i.imgur.com/cXGb75c.jpg
Heritage BAE photo previously published by Vintage ATCO

22/04

10th Apr 2018, 07:43

Okay the memory 1965 is vague but it still might have been possible to see the fire engines where they are shown - I remember peeking at them and that might have been from the approach road - the road the guys had to run across. Where would we have spectated from then? My vague memory has us walking around on the road behind the farmhouse and tower and ending up standing on the approach road near the end of the taxiway crossing to the flying club. Near what looks like the signal square shown in the 1963 picture. I remember tannoy announcements of flight departures that were audible. Two BY Britannias departed one in a basic white and grey/silver colour scheme. But could we have been closer- was there a viewing area at then north western end of the apron and in front of/beside the terminal?

By my next annual visit in 1966 the spectators area beside the new terminal was open. Wasn't allowed to visit on my own until 1968 when visits became frequent.

LTNman

11th Apr 2018, 04:57

https://i.imgur.com/jBAFjR1.jpg
Published previously by Graham Alexander

BSD

11th Apr 2018, 23:39

What a superb picture of the 707, stunning.

I love it!

LTNman

12th Apr 2018, 04:30

rog747

12th Apr 2018, 06:01

So did Britannia actually have a flight schedule for the 707 at Luton or was it Gatwick based and only came to Luton for maintenance?

For some reason I have a 123 passenger capacity in my mind for their 737-200 and 189 passengers for their 707. Probably completely wrong though.:confused:

189 pax 707
117 pax at first on the 732's in 1968 (same as Britannia 102's) then increased over the years to 130 eventually

the 707 saw work (not a lot) on ABC affinity charters across the pond and the Caribbean plus plenty of Palma's Tenerife's etc - sub's for BCAL and Dan Air Air Spain and others

BY had 2 707-320C's G-AYSI (the one in the photo above) and G-AYEX
both seen at MAN and LTN mainly - not often at LGW - I never saw them afaicr there
seen at BHX on a Palma series iirc

they were 'C' versions - cannot recall them doing freighter work but they may have done

l.garey

12th Apr 2018, 07:30

Lovely to see that photo of 'YSI.

I went from Luton to Keflavik and then on to Oakland in 'YSI in September 1972 with Britannia.

Laurence

Mooncrest

12th Apr 2018, 07:47

OUAQUKGF Ops

12th Apr 2018, 08:36

G-AYSI leased from World Airways arrived Luton February 1971.
G-AYEX leased from Executive Jet Aviation arrived Luton October 1971.

Both aircraft disposed of to British Caledonian 1973.

22/04

12th Apr 2018, 08:48

I think that YSI was bought by Britannia from World Airways and subsequently went to British Caledonian.

"Flying to the Sun" (Geoffrey Cuthbert, 1987) says G-AYEX was leased from Executive Jet Aviation, but served with British Caledonian before and after Britannia and later with Monarch IIRC.

A 707 did a weekly winter Tenerife on Saturdays probably 1972/3 ex LTN. LAX was flown via Iceland - with 189 pax plus bags a tech stop might have been necessary anyway so LTN was fine for that, coming back non-stop. I remember a Kuala Lumpar ( listening to "G-AYSI cleared Kuala Lumpar cross Brookmans Park at 3000 feet climb when instructed by radar flight level xxx" was quite a novelty for us spotters in "spectators"). She was empty outbound I think.

They were rarely at Gatwick. Some ABC charters were operated from Stansted though.

I remember going to the airport in 1973 and being told they were going - as a schoolboy not that in tune with the market at the time it seemed a backward step to go back to an all 737 fleet. Again "Flying to the Sun" quotes Derek Davison as saying "there was no heart rending wake at Luton" when the decision was made.

cj241101

12th Apr 2018, 08:51

What was the ownership position re the Britannia 707s ? Looking on the G-INFO site for both aircraft there is no mention of Britannia Airways, unless I've missed it. I thought British Caledonian had some involvement with the pair.
G-AYSI was registered to Britannia on 24/2/71 and was delivered from Oakland, still in part World Airways colours, on 28/2/71. Sold to BCAL on 3/4/73 and was being painted in their colours when I peeked in hangar 89 on 8/4/73.
G-AYEX was registered to Caledonian Airways - later BCAL - on 12/6/70 then to Britannia 18/10/71, having arrived at Luton for painting on 1/10/71. It was reregistered back to BCAL on 16/3/73.
Both aircraft were regular at Luton, mainly on European IT flights, although they did operate flights direct to New York (JFK I think). I remember reading how the airport had brought another 200ft of "unused starter extension" runway into use to enable these flights to operate direct - not sure where that came from - the original runway length was 7054ft, declared distance now is 2162m / 7093ft (I'm sure it used to be 2160m / 7087ft so it must have grown by 6ft somewhere). Los Angeles flights operated on Wednesdays at some stage in 1972, with a fuel stop probably in Keflavik. Return flights operated direct. I have records of other long haul flights to Montego Bay and Singapore - not sure how regular these were.

22/04

12th Apr 2018, 08:52

QUAQUKGF ops our posts crossed - had to do some research

22/04

12th Apr 2018, 08:54

We really should get together and write a book!

OUAQUKGF Ops

12th Apr 2018, 08:56

22/04 Your 0952. Me too! Used same source Cuthbert.

cj241101

12th Apr 2018, 09:01

G-AYEX was leased from Executive Jet Aviation, but served with British Caledonian before and after Britannia and later with Monarch IIRC.
G-AXRS was the 707-355C leased by Monarch from BCAL summer 1981. Used for the Saint Lucia flights previously operated on the 720B's which needed a fuel stop in the Azores each way. The 707 operated the return legs direct, still needing the fuel stop outbound. Colour scheme was slightly different from the 720's, with the yellow line paler and dropped down to the windows, then the black line below the windows. Lower fuselage was bare metal as opposed to the painted grey on the 720's.

vintage ATCO

12th Apr 2018, 09:02

Britannia did a series of flights to KLAX from Luton with the B707, tech stopping outbound, but often coming back direct. Often we would not get FPL, the first we knew is when given an estimate by London.

Mooncrest

12th Apr 2018, 09:12

Fascinating stuff and such a brief period of operation for the Britannia 707s. Did BY employ their own Flight Engineers or simply place a third pilot in the F/E seat ?

22/04

12th Apr 2018, 10:01

22/04

12th Apr 2018, 10:15

No- they had FEs I think- not sure where they came from They had them on the Brits of course.

rog747

12th Apr 2018, 12:05

As a bit of an aside the purchase of "C" series turbofanned 70s was a I think a smart move at the time when many competitors (British Midland, Donaldson, Dan Air and LLoyd) had bought turbojet 321s readily and more cheaply available from Pan Am. They would have pretty useless for West Coast USA- were gas guzzlers come 1973 - and as perhaps an aside poor for any kind of ops out of Luton except perhaps the Med, I remember BD's 'YBJ taking until the Delta/26 intersection to get airborne going just to Palma.

yes only Caledonian AW previously had the sense to buy new or almost new 707-320C's in 1967
- bit of a hoo hah with HMRC over the import tax duty on these but they got away with it - they operated 7 until the merger with BUA
(2 were brand new and built for Caledonian AW -399C)

G-AYEX being one of the 7 - returned to BCAL after the BY lease
G-AYSI also went to BCAL after BY

British eagle had also ordered 2 new 320C's for 1968 but were not really operated and one was never delivered - they had a tax issue iirc and one was re-regd in Bermuda or bahamas
one of this pair went to Transavia then to Caledonian AW G-ATZC
the other to MEA then to BOAC G-ATZD

Lloyd did have one 320C for a while - G-AZJM (to BCAL)

classic200

12th Apr 2018, 13:37

AZJM flew this one with British Midland a few times 1980 on the PIA contract.

22/04

12th Apr 2018, 15:01

and was being painted in their colours when I peeked in hangar 89 on 8/4/73.

Oh the good old days. There was a door on the north side of Hanger 89 which was adjacent to the spectators enclosure by the terminal. I can't remember whether it had a handle on the outside or whether we had to wait for an engineer to come out to have a peek.

hard to imagine these days- eventually it got a keypad I think.

I can remember peeking in at G-AYSI in spring '71. It was the first to feature the then new livery-couldn't work out at first why it had red on it.

cj241101

12th Apr 2018, 15:22

There was a door on the other side as well, overlooking the taxiway albeit with an 8ft high wooden fence. The week following the delivery of G-AYSI, myself and a school friend, noticing the door was ajar, ventured down the access road to peer into the hangar hoping to get a view of the 707. We met an engineer coming out, so, expected to be told "clear off" (or something similar), we turned away only to be invited in by the engineer and given a tour of the newly arrived 707, in which he obviously took great pride. One of those unforgettable memories from the days before high security, health & safety etc.

lotus1

12th Apr 2018, 15:48

I believe Britannia also used Invictas Boeing 720 as a back up aircraft Remember seeing this at Palma around 74 .All thomsons guest being loaded on this .

22/04

12th Apr 2018, 16:18

Invicta did a lot of ad-hoc work, picking up flights on behalf of others rather like Titan today. A I have mentioned before quite a bit passed to them after Court Lline went bust- Court Line flew for Jetway, Pontins, Warners etc. as well as in house Horizon and Clarksons at the end.

Passengers who had booked expecting a nice new One Eleven thus ended up with the dulcet tones of four Rolls Royce Tynes for three hours down to Alicante on a Vanguard in September '74.

thegypsy

12th Apr 2018, 17:48

One of the Britannia ex B707 F/Engs was Dave Brown who ran the ground school on the B737 and B757/767.

He was loaned out to British Midland on a wet lease to Kuwait in late 70's.

Sadly died recently

As for Pilots on the panel of a B707 God help us it never happened as all the F/Engs I flew with were ex ground engineers who knew every bit of the aircraft backwards.

lotus1

12th Apr 2018, 20:12

With regards to invicta using the vanguard to Alicante .Flybe have been using the Dash down to Alicante recently and I know last year saw it in August I regularly fly many times to Alicante I bet the customers had a nice surprise.Saying that Cross air use to fly the Saab 340 in to Alicante from Zurich.

BSD

12th Apr 2018, 22:47

F/Es? Navigators too, especially to LAX. No INS in those 707s I’m sure.

Discorde

12th Apr 2018, 23:47

One of the Britannia ex B707 F/Engs was Dave Brown who ran the ground school on the B737 and B757/767.

One of Dave Brown's BM B707 stories was how his lunch was spoiled one day when a hijacker (one of six on board) burst into the flight deck toting a gun. The bad guys forced the a/c to land in Damascus but eventually surrendered to the Syrian authorities and the incident was resolved with no loss of life.

Dave said the most worrying aspect was when the hijackers checked passports and separated Jewish passengers from the others. One of the bad guys looked at Dave's passport and commented that David was a Jewish name. Dave said he was prepared if necessary to demonstrate anatomically by removal of clothing that this was not the case.

compton3bravo

13th Apr 2018, 11:05

Brit 707s did do charters to Singapore and Hong Kong. I have proof on Luton Airport movement sheets from that era as well as the other destinations previously mentioned.

rog747

13th Apr 2018, 11:36

Brit 707s did do charters to Singapore and Hong Kong. I have proof on Luton Airport movement sheets from that era as well as the other destinations previously mentioned.

yes i recall those too - were they for far east travel centre or also MOD flights?

Discorde

13th Apr 2018, 11:43

Some more Luton history from 1970 in this UK AIP AGA extract (https://steemrok.com/LTNAGA1970.pdf).

22/04

13th Apr 2018, 12:39

Some more Luton history from 1970 in this UK AIP AGA extract.

Interesting. Presumably after 08 departures southwest bound were routed cross radial 39 Bovingdon 3000 feet or below.

Before this they had been routed Brookmans Park, Kilburn, Epsom and Dunsfold.

There was also Brookmans Park, Detling, Cranbrook and Hastings.

Can't remember when these went.

Also like the crossing the M1 motorway bit- how does that work in IFR- time at given speed? Was replaced by DME 9 from Bovingdon I think at some stage.

LTNman

13th Apr 2018, 12:51

Never got my head around why runway 26 had then and still has a displaced threshold when the runway is on top of a hill, which just happened to be the size of the turning circle.

Discorde

13th Apr 2018, 13:03

Presumably after 08 departures southwest bound were routed cross radial 39 Bovingdon 3000 feet or below.

Bovingdon was an NDB in those days, becoming a VOR when Garston was decommissioned in the 1970s.

Not sure how these min noise routings tied in with the SIDs.

Edit: according to the AIP there were no SIDs in effect for LTN in 1969.

22/04

13th Apr 2018, 16:12

Yep SIDs came later- don't know when but maybe Vintage ATCO or Compton 3B (who has named himself after one of them) does.

Clearances mentioned way points (VORs, NDBs or fan markers?) as I have mentioned. The standard south westerly one I didn't mention was Beacon Hill Burnham Chertsey and Dunsfold.

North bounds were at one time join control airspace x miles east of or on track Woburn IIRC. There weren't many so I don't remember clearly- Autair Herald in the evening was the memorable one.

But the restriction at Bovingdon might have come later- may have been easterly Beacon Hill (or Henton it is all such blur!) before that.

Spanish eyes

13th Apr 2018, 16:25

Were flights into and out of Radlett and Hatfield coordinated by Luton?

LGS6753

13th Apr 2018, 17:17

I recall unloading a BY 707 in July/August 1972 (?), recently arrived from Georgetown, Guyana. I think it was a regular service, in addition to LAX.

compton3bravo

13th Apr 2018, 17:59

I think the Singapore and Hong Kong were group affinity charters (members for the Hong Kong Canoe Club!) but I could not be 100 per cent sure. Those are the days.
On a different tack there was a Saint feature film on Talking Pictures the other night with Roger Moore being checked in for a flight from Naples but the check-in in desk used was the one by the arrivals with the main check-in desks in the background! Filmed in 1969.

HershamBoys

13th Apr 2018, 18:08

Were flights into and out of Radlett and Hatfield coordinated by Luton?

Certainly during my time we used to take Hatfield inbounds traffic off London, mainly DTY - LUT, get them past the LUT, and then hand them over to Hatfield (123.350). Radlett had closed well before I went to Luton. We also coordinated Hatfield outbounds into the airways system through LATCC TMA North, northbound via DTY, and westbound via HEN. HENTON 5000 springs to mind, but where that came from I dunno.

HB

22/04

13th Apr 2018, 18:40

A bit off thread but

Hatfield handled Radlett arrival c.1968/69. Radio c/s was Hanair. Radett, I think only had a tower, at least by then.

Certainly during my time we used to take Hatfield inbounds traffic off London, mainly DTY - LUT, get them past the LUT, and then hand them over to Hatfield (123.350).

At that time (68) Hatfield was kind-of more established than Luton. Their approach frequency was I think 124.95 (might be 124.75 but don't think so as that was probably London info even then). They seemed to handle their traffic independent, test flights like the Tridents going to and coming back from Eastern Radar IIRC.

Better watch out for the thread drift police.

YVRLTN

13th Apr 2018, 23:23

Who operated the last 707/720's into LTN? Maof?

OUAQUKGF Ops

14th Apr 2018, 09:19

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x601/1201712_large_7f368beb421d506198644a586885709db0964908.jpg
Do you recall this occasion? Photographed by Andrew Martin.

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_0134/1201712-large.jpg

rog747

14th Apr 2018, 09:27

Who operated the last 707/720's into LTN? Maof?

MEA and Scibe airlift were doing subs for AE DA BY and MON until the early 90's

vintage ATCO

14th Apr 2018, 17:40

Do you recall this occasion? Photographed by Andrew Martin.

18 Feb 1989 but I cannot remember why.

boeing_eng

15th Apr 2018, 11:26

I seem to recall the Tarom IL-18's were operating school ski charters...I'm sure CJ will confirm, but no doubt the lack of a towbar was the reason for using the Pond?

cj241101

15th Apr 2018, 15:44

I seem to recall the Tarom IL-18's were operating school ski charters...I'm sure CJ will confirm, but no doubt the lack of a towbar was the reason for using the Pond?
School ski flights rings a bell. Think the flights were repeated the following week (18/2/89). Probably coincided with half term holidays.
https://i.imgur.com/E75cfZ0.jpg
11/2/89

https://i.imgur.com/U0ozoni.jpg?1
11/2/89

As boeing_eng suggests, IL-18's always parked nose out due to the lack of a towbar. In 1969 there was a fortnightly flight
to Bourgas operated by Bulair/Balkan, which I always remember parking nose out around stand 1.

https://i.imgur.com/SaMRRyR.jpg?2
LZ-BEP 5/7/69

1971 and 1972 brought a weekly Tarom IL-18 which usually parked nose out stand 9. Other IL-18's I remember seeing were these:-

https://i.imgur.com/Qlo4W2Q.jpg
HA-MOI 14/8/80, brought an orchestra in IIRC

https://i.imgur.com/PQrhdJR.jpg
D-AOAS 19/10/93

A couple of LOT examples operated for Tarom in 1971 (SP-LSF 13/6/71 and SP-LSA 20/6/71). SP-LSC operated a Court Line flight on 12/8/73. and another LOT example (SP-LSI) visited on 17/2/81, from Warsaw to Katowice. Last time I saw an IL-18 at the airport was Romavia YR-IMZ on 25/8/99.

22/04

15th Apr 2018, 16:01

Ah those Illyushin's - anyone got a picture of one trailing smoke.

The '69 Bulgarian ones were fortnightly IIRC and also used stand 9. I remember some in still in TABSO livery I think.

vintage ATCO

15th Apr 2018, 17:03

1970 . . .
https://i.imgur.com/UtKqKMW.jpg?1

22/04

15th Apr 2018, 17:16

Lovely picture Vintage - just look at that apron- probably the Court Line/Dan-Air One Elevens and Britannia 737s had all gone - and there was just a Midland Viscount doing a Channel Islands Run and Monarch Brit - they kept odd hours taking seven hours round trip to Palma. Looks like it might have needed one of your SRAs to get in if 08 was in use. All three favoured nose out parking IIRC- only saw Viscounts and Brits pushed towards the end of their service lives.

BTW could it be earlier than 1970 given the stage of construction of Hanger 89 - in which case edit Court Line to Autair

cj241101

15th Apr 2018, 20:44

Great picture vintage ATCO and thanks for publishing it.
The Bulair 1969 programme was announced in the local rag (Evening Post) with the front page headline "RUSSIAN PLANES ARE COMING TO LUTON". They must have been desperate for headlines as one IL18 a fortnight wasn't exactly newsworthy, although it may have conjured up images of a squadron of MIG-15's as part of an invasion force.... As a newspaper that claimed to be in favour of airport expansion, it was very good at publishing stories designed to provoke anti-airport feelings locally.
Anyway, I missed the first flight on 7th June 1969 but made sure I was there, camera poised, for the next one on 21st. It ran a bit late, but eventually something trailing smoke appeared between layers of cloud, heading north around 4 miles east of the airport. Binoculars revealed it to be the long-awaited IL18. It turned away then reappeared on the approach a few minutes later. I watched it land and head towards me in the speccies car park. So excited was I to get my picture that I forgot to adjust the exposure on my Kodak Instamatic, so when the film came back from being developed my IL18 picture was so horribly over-exposed that no photo editing software has been able to render it worth publishing.:{:{

While I'm on the subject, does anyone remember, or have any record of, a Balkan IL-18, possibly LZ-BEK, visiting around March 1971? The only other Bulair/Balkan IL18 visit I know of post 1969 was LZ-BET which night stopped on 28th July 1971.

Level bust

16th Apr 2018, 10:21

While I'm on the subject, does anyone remember, or have any record of, a Balkan IL-18, possibly LZ-BEK, visiting around March 1971?

My records show, although Dave Gearing was responsible pre 1980 for them, has LZBEK making a first visit on 14th March 1971.

cj241101

16th Apr 2018, 11:15

My records show, although Dave Gearing was responsible pre 1980 for them, has LZBEK making a first visit on 14th March 1971.
Thanks level bust, that confirms the "spotter rumour" that's been reawakened after 47 years by the recent threads.

LTNman

16th Apr 2018, 15:46

Looks like the ground has been cleared in preparation for Britannia's hangar?

cj241101

16th Apr 2018, 20:29

Looks like the ground has been cleared in preparation for Britannia's hangar?
I think the area in view on far left of the photo is actually what is now stand 1R. The building of hangar 89 was already underway by the summer of 1969 when the Bulair series began. I suspect the early stages of the hangar construction are just out of view. I remember my initial enthusiasm at having a new hangar at the airport waned somewhat when it became apparent it was going to block the view of a large part of the apron that was still visible from the spectators car park.

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Apr 2018, 04:55

Taking a break at Percivals Luton. Just enough time to see this old Newsreel of the Prototype P.16 Q.6. First flew 14.09.37.

http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/small/000/744/744344.jpg

Photo Credit Airport-Data.com

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Apr 2018, 04:59

https://youtu.be/oPQU4PzG-Xg

treadigraph

17th Apr 2018, 06:01

Just enough time to see this old Newsreel of the Prototype P.16 Q.6. First flew 14.09.37.

And hopefully not too long now till we see the first flight of the restored Q.6.

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Apr 2018, 07:33

And hopefully not too long now till we see the first flight of the restored Q.6.

Good News! Any idea which airframe it is?

treadigraph

17th Apr 2018, 07:59

G-AFFD. Think it was once part of a tech college at Redhill, Rex Ford is doing the rebuild.

OUAQUKGF Ops

17th Apr 2018, 08:35

With the Yorkshire Aeroplane Club 1946-52 G-AFFD was the first production aircraft. Delivered to Sir Phillip Sassoon at Lympne 02.03.38.

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13230057_1184803928196844_5512434487140033735_n.jpg?_nc_cat= 0&oh=18eac9f8bf2e1833b073d3b9746d516b&oe=5B2737BD

Snarlingdog

18th Apr 2018, 15:38

Here are a couple of YouTube clips I've not seen on this thread before.
They pre-date the control tower, the tunnel sur-la taxiway and the world of orange of course.

I never knew that in 1990 there were no windows facing outwards from Hangar 89. I do know that all the inside windows looking into the hangar have been covered over (and are still there).
Also, was H89 just used for Britannias Engineering and Maintenance? (see from 0:38 seconds in the second link)
In clip 1, Look for the old Terminal Building, (buried inside the new one now) The old main entrance (now T2) and building 72 - which is now the ID center which seems to have grown an extra floor since Britannia owned it...

Apparently i am not allowed to post urls until I have at least ten posts.... Nor can I post plain text! Ah moderators are so clever...

Right, put HTTPS:// next to the text starting with youtu.be below into a browser and you might be lucky enough to see the two clips

youtu.be/WG0gOD9JdJg

youtu.be/ZMEpfR6154c

treadigraph

18th Apr 2018, 20:02

Here you go Snarlingdog...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG0gOD9JdJg&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMEpfR6154c&feature=youtu.be

OUAQUKGF Ops

19th Apr 2018, 11:59

Do you know anything about the nature of the experimental tail fins on this Percival P40 Prentice VN684 photographed at Luton in 1949?

https://www.na3t.org/images/photos/air/AB01112.jpg

Credit Andy Doran

OUAQUKGF Ops

19th Apr 2018, 12:04

Sorry I've just found this but I'll leave the photo as ATCO's has been deleted.A 'one off' twin tailed Percival Prentice Luton Airport 1947/48.

VN684 c/n PAC/007 was a 1st pre-production aircraft which was awaiting collection at Luton 27.8.47. It returned to Luton on 21.5.48 for fitting of the twin tails for handling tests. Declared Non-Effective Airframe 1.12.49 it went to Halton as 6703M 3.12.49.

In the background is Avro 19 G-AHKX still extant at Old Warden.

BAE Systems Hertitage, Warton - Hunting Percival Archive

OUAQUKGF Ops

21st Apr 2018, 08:21

B.S.A.A. Avro 19 G-AIKM 'Star Visitant'.

The Company Hack suffered a technical problem on departing Luton resulting in a wheels up landing as a return to the airfield was attempted. The two crew were unhurt.

http://www.flywiththestars.co.uk/Pictures/Aircraft/G-AIKM.jpg

Photograph Credit: Fly With The Stars.

LTNman

23rd Apr 2018, 15:48

Not sure if this was a regular charter or a one off.

Just love the height of the fence!

https://i.imgur.com/y6FJDHr.jpg

OUAQUKGF Ops

23rd Apr 2018, 17:12

Learnt to drive in one of them (Austin not DC8)!

SpringHeeledJack

23rd Apr 2018, 19:02

I seem to remember standing there with said fence with perhaps a lowish wooden building to the right out of shot ? When did the fence get taller ?

cj241101

23rd Apr 2018, 21:21

Not sure if this was a regular charter or a one off.

Iberia operated DC-8's on Aviaco flights summer 1973. Tuesdays and Saturdays IIRC.

LTNman

24th Apr 2018, 20:52

I seem to remember standing there with said fence with perhaps a lowish wooden building to the right out of shot ? When did the fence get taller ?

I can only remember that the low wire mesh fence became a wooden fence once it was outside the spectators car park.

To the right is Luton's tented terminal extension. Anyone like to guess what aircraft and airline is in the extreme left as I haven't a clue?
https://i.imgur.com/9mNw07z.jpg
Photo by Jochen Beeck

treadigraph

24th Apr 2018, 21:55

Mey Air 737? Mind you, can't see any evidence of the red along the fuselage roof.

LTNman

24th Apr 2018, 22:07

I was thinking it was a prop job. Heavy Lift?

treadigraph

24th Apr 2018, 22:15

Actually, it might be another Invicta Vanguard?

Yes, rear air stair and the object below the fuselage is the right hand rear hold door I think...

22/04

25th Apr 2018, 06:38

Definitely another IM Vanguard.

Mooncrest

25th Apr 2018, 07:24

Were the Invicta Vanguards ex-Air Canada ? The livery doesn't look much different.

ATNotts

25th Apr 2018, 07:46

Were the Invicta Vanguards ex-Air Canada ? The livery doesn't look much different.

Indeed they were.

kcockayne

25th Apr 2018, 07:49

Were the Invicta Vanguards ex-Air Canada ? The livery doesn't look much different.
Yes. All that Invicta did (a la Channel Airways) was paint in “Invicta “ along the top of the fuselage, instead of “Air Canada”; & paint in the horse on the tail, instead of the maple leaf. Saved money, I suppose.

boeing_eng

25th Apr 2018, 09:21

I seem to remember standing there with said fence with perhaps a lowish wooden building to the right out of shot ? When did the fence get taller ?

Certainly, by the Summer of '76 it was a taller fence. I seem to remember where the wood fencing started further down in the car park, you could climb on it to get high enough to take photo's clear of the fence mesh.....

OUAQUKGF Ops

25th Apr 2018, 14:23

https://www.na3t.org/images/photos/air/EX00542.jpg
Sharing the fate of many Halifax Freighters; a result of the end of The Berlin Airlift, contraction of the initial post-war air freight boom and a shortage of spare parts. Photograph NA3T with thanks.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/The_Berlin_Airlift_1948_-_1949_HU98420.jpg/623px-The_Berlin_Airlift_1948_-_1949_HU98420.jpg

'Red Eagle' Berlin Airlift 1948-49. Photographed at Wunsdorf West Germany.

22/04

25th Apr 2018, 16:37

Invicta Vanguards would have been leased or purchase from Air Holdings- they were traded in as some kind of exchange deal for L1011s (TriStars) IIRC. While it may have saved painting the Invicta Livery was very similar to Air Canada- a DC4 was recently posted here - a stroke of good luck. The Horse is of course the Invicta symbol with association with Kent (unconquered) and the airfield base - Manston. One Vanguard G-AYFN operated in a blue colour scheme ex Fly Trader of Sweden but was I think repainted into full Invicta livery later. CJ will no doubt be able to post a picture.

European Air Service France later received several Vanguards and also operated them in the basic Red/white scheme.

OntimeexceptACARS

25th Apr 2018, 22:31

Don't forget a proposed reincarnation of Silver City Airways (part of Air Holdings) :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/markp51/39094971432/

Sorry for the thread drift.
OTEA

Mooncrest

26th Apr 2018, 03:52

Weird. I was thinking I had seen a picture of a Silver City Vanguard in a book years ago, knowing the original airline had disappeared years before.

lotus1

26th Apr 2018, 05:51

Invicta did quite a lot of work for clarksons from Luton just shows you how the boom in the days of the package tours took off in the early seventies

OUAQUKGF Ops

27th Apr 2018, 08:35

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x683/1379962_large_cab2f25ee3e352d69d74109451c8346943df7d23.jpg
A scarce colour image courtesy of Tom Cole who took this photograph on his Dad's Ilford Sportsman camera.https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_0253/1379962-large.jpg

vintage ATCO

27th Apr 2018, 09:38

What a terrific photo! That is parked on the curved taxiway that passed in front of the control tower (which is off to the right, spectators enclosure to the left) and the foot path leading from it went to the cafe which occupied the end of the old farm buildings where the Luton Flying Club bar was. The cafe was used as the 'terminal'. I remember these. Great stuff!

LTNman

27th Apr 2018, 10:01

This is the text that went with the photo

ex.XA265. The date is uncertain; 'MEW was wfu at Burnaston on 27.9.60. It is thought, but not certain, that the smartly dressed woman at the door is Clare Roberts. She, and husband Chris, operated Chrisair from Luton for some years, using DH82A Tiger Moth Coupe G-AHVU cn.84728 and DH.84 Dragon II G-ADDI cn.6096, prior to emigrating to the USA.

22/04

27th Apr 2018, 12:45

ex.XA265. The date is uncertain; 'MEW was wfu at Burnaston on 27.9.60. It is thought, but not certain, that the smartly dressed woman at the door is Clare Roberts. She, and husband Chris, operated Chrisair from Luton for some years, using DH82A Tiger Moth Coupe G-AHVU cn.84728 and DH.84 Dragon II G-ADDI cn.6096, prior to emigrating to the USA.

"Diamond Flight" by Bill Gunston (1988) has entry into service as 7/7/58 and it looks like summer so one of three. It looks like early rather than late summer (quite green everywhere) to me so maybe '59 or '60.

OUAQUKGF Ops

27th Apr 2018, 14:14

Perhaps GotTheTshirt would know if Claire Roberts ever freelanced with Derby Airways - but I suspect she would be wearing slacks if piloting. At some stage she flew for Dan Air on their Ambassadors the first of which were introduced in 1959.

22/04

27th Apr 2018, 15:19

Perhaps GotTheTshirt would know if Clare Roberts ever freelanced with Derby Airways - but I suspect she would be wearing slacks if piloting. At some stage she flew for Dan Air on their Ambassadors the first of which were introduced in 19559

Would Chrissair have been what we would now call a handling agent then, I doubt Luton had much other commercial traffic at that time. Before even my time - I would have been somewhere between three and five.

YVRLTN

28th Apr 2018, 01:53

Would Chrissair have been what we would now call a handling agent then, I doubt Luton had much other commercial traffic at that time. Before even my time - I would have been somewhere between three and five.
From British Independent Airlines 1946-1976: "Chrisair was formed in early 1961 by Mr & Mrs Chris Roberts, as a light charter and pleasure flight operator. The first two years were spent at Luton airport, joy riding with a Leopard Moth (AIYS) for the 1961 season, and during 1962 the company used a Proctor (AHGJ). These aircraft traveled to many air displays throughout the country to give pleasure flights, and at the end of the 1962 season, Chrisair moved its base to Ramsgate aerodrome. Prior to this Chrisair had been flying pleasure flights from Ramsgate since the summer of 1961 for 10s per person. In November 1962 the company bought a former Blackpool joy riding aircraft - Dragon ADDI - and during the winter this aircraft was serviced and resprayed in Chrisair's red and white paint scheme, and for the first part of 1963, this aircraft and a Prentice (AONB) and Proctor gave joy rides from the airport at Ramsgate. However, in June Chrisair once again moved its base, this time to Sywell, near Northampton. From here, in addition to joy riding, the aircraft were used for passenger and freight ad hoc charters, and during the 1966 dock strike the Dragon was used to carry cigarettes from Sywell to Belfast. Only a few flights were made, though, due to the rather slow cruising speed of the aircraft making the journey seem rather long. The Dragon became a very familiar sight at air displays up and down the country, and this aircraft was very often flown by Mrs Claire Roberts. On July 31 1964 the Dragon made the long trek to Brawdy to give pleasure flights at an air display there the following day - the Dragon returned to Luton on August 2 after making a night stop at Cardiff on the night of August 1. A Cessna 175 (ARML leased from a private owner) was used for a number of charter flights during 1964 - it made a Sywell - Cardiff - Sywell flight on March 11 1964, but few other charter flights flights were undertaken. One epic journey undertaken bu the Dragon was a cargo charter to Kirkwall on June 17 1966 (presumably form Luton). The aircraft made stops en route at Newcastle and Aberdeen, and the return flight was accomplished on June 18 using the same airports as staging posts. During 1967, only an Auster (AJEB no record when it joined) and the Dragon were in use, and in 1968 the Auster spent much of its time pleasure flying from North Denes on behalf of Anglian Air Charter, while one of their own aircraft was away on overhaul. The Dragon's C of A expired at the end of May 1968, and was sadly retired from service, and once the Auster had returned from Anglian Air Charter in the autumn of 1968, Chrisair stopped flying."

I remember reading somewhere that was the last Dragon in commercial service, and I believe it was indeed based at Luton to the end.

Haraka

28th Apr 2018, 06:55

I flew in ADDI at a Yeovilton Air Day in the mid 60's.

treadigraph

28th Apr 2018, 08:37

and a Prentice (AONB)

I wouldn't describe a Prentice as an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty... :}

OUAQUKGF Ops

28th Apr 2018, 08:46

Lutair a subsidiary of Autair was set up at Luton in 1961 and became the airport's official Handling Agent. The early years of Lutair are described in Graham Simon's book 'Colours In The Sky' a new edition of which is being published in May 2018. I expect many of us had the pleasure of flight with Claire Roberts in G-ADDI so at the risk of a bit of thread drift on a dreary wet day (certainly here in Norfolk).....
https://youtu.be/48BsHNb23qE

22/04

28th Apr 2018, 14:26

So to get us back to the thread does that make it unlikely that the lady by the Marathon door was Claire Roberts (pre 1961).

OUAQUKGF Ops

28th Apr 2018, 17:00

Very difficult to find an image of Claire. I don't think she is the lady by the Marathon and yet she is quite tall. Here is an image of Claire from 1964 she is on the extreme right of the group of 99s and seems to be quite tall too, certainly in comparison to Elizabeth Overbury (who I knew) and the rest of the group however it might be that she is closest to the camera. Note too, subsequently disgraced Member of Parliament.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1964/1964%20-%203028.html

GotTheTshirt

29th Apr 2018, 09:58

Ops - , I remember Chris and Claire at Derby but I don't think they worked for the airline. They ran there own little show and we did maintenance.There was a big GA side at Derby as the original company included the Wolverhampton Flying Club and of course Elstree. David Ogilvy ran Elstree but was a frequent visitor to Derby. When Derby took the Mossies from Silloth for Spartan Canada David did all the flying which of course included beat ups !

OUAQUKGF Ops

29th Apr 2018, 12:09

Thanks GTT - Further digging reveals that by 1960 it would appear that Derby Airways had an office (Luton 22153) and representatives including Mrs Sheila Riches and Miss Lavinia Wellicome (echoes of John Betjeman). All in all I think Claire Roberts is a bit of a Red Herring - time to move on to fresh fields.

Simtech

29th Apr 2018, 14:16

Lavinia Wellicombe married Derek Davison who was, (at various times), pilot, Chief Pilot, Operations Director, Managing Director, Chairman and Chief Executive of Britannia Airways). She also worked for Britannia as a senior (possibly Chief?) ground stewardess.

LTNman

3rd May 2018, 14:01

Monarch girls

https://i.imgur.com/6hXneli.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fRYFsUf.jpg

browndhc2

3rd May 2018, 17:36

4911

Great pictures LTNman.
On the same theme here is an OM publicity shot Circa 1968.

LTNman

4th May 2018, 07:35

A few more Monarch girls

https://i.imgur.com/9eDaKp4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aRv3SeI.png

https://i.imgur.com/QcU1MVk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VeHGEpG.jpg

LTNman

4th May 2018, 08:21

So what is running along the roof line of the last photo above the hosties head?

Tony Mabelis

4th May 2018, 09:19

Stip lights.

GotTheTshirt

5th May 2018, 06:44

Tony, No pun intended eh !!!

Wander00

5th May 2018, 14:16

ooh, 'eck. That's risqué!

OUAQUKGF Ops

7th May 2018, 07:41

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/hwIAAOSwozxa2fu7/s-l1600.jpghttps://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/gZ4AAOSw0XFa2fvK/s-l1600.jpg

washoutt

7th May 2018, 09:33

Is it just me and my acient browser (IE 11 with W7) or is PPRuNe after the facelift now very slow? I have to wait ages to see the Monarch Girls. It is probably the heavy amount of advertisement, for my browser often says that time is running out because of a long script run (whatever that means). Is there anything to be done about this slow loading time?

cj241101

7th May 2018, 10:02

I posted this a couple of years ago but photobucket sabotaged it so here it is again. 17th October 1985.

https://i.imgur.com/VnLtXWt.jpg

browndhc2

7th May 2018, 10:51

MHJ was the only Dak to wear the full Air Luton livery. I remember being told that the Seahorse logo was designed by the Managing Directors directors daughter.

I never realized the company produced a brochure.

Air Luton had operated a Pa31 G-AYFZ since January 1985. Three Dakotas were obtained to operate Post Office contracts. Services commenced on the Night of the 19Th February 1985 with G-AMRA flying NCL-LPL-NCL and G-AMSV operating LTN-EMA-GLA. Unfortunately, due to poor serviceability, the contracts were suspended a Year later being fully terminated by April 1986 when MPO was impounded at NCL.
Fairoaks based Top Flight took up the aircraft and contracts but did not last long either. The Dakotas all returned to Air Atlantique.

canberra97

7th May 2018, 17:39

YVRLTN

8th May 2018, 01:42

My grandfather inaugurated Datapost and while he was based at Warren St, he frequented LTN a lot. I think he dealt mostly with Chanex, BAF & BCal, but remember hearing about Air Ecosse, Brown Air Services, Peregrine, Hubbardair as well as a Cessna 404 operator.

What Royal Mail / Datapost services flew ex LTN in the mid 80's?

Ballymoss

8th May 2018, 22:07

What Royal Mail / Datapost services flew ex LTN in the mid 80's?

C404 could have been Executive Express. Aviation West operated BRS/LTN/BRS and LTN/RTM/LTN. That end of the ramp was
awash with aircraft during the night hours, National Airways, Spacegrand, Topflight.........

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

cj241101

16th May 2018, 09:48

A selection of aircraft operating mail and small parcels flights from the 1980's:-

https://i.imgur.com/wL9rAnc.jpg
8/1/84

https://i.imgur.com/j3dyd03.jpg
26/5/85

https://i.imgur.com/Jc94fwr.jpg
1/4/84

https://i.imgur.com/V0VPLD6.jpg
24/4/84

https://i.imgur.com/B1ffP4v.jpg
12/10/83

https://i.imgur.com/ttZtxii.jpg
26/6/84

https://i.imgur.com/zNkON1k.jpg
22/2/83

https://i.imgur.com/O2zO1p5.jpg
21/1/85, became EI-BRI by 18/10/85

https://i.imgur.com/CzTHpX1.jpg
4/1/83

https://i.imgur.com/vTySdQ4.jpg
19/1/85, Holland Aero Lines, became PH-HAG by 6/3/85

https://i.imgur.com/XwIOadm.jpg
31/10/80

https://i.imgur.com/A8Ra1jg.jpg
29/1/83

https://i.imgur.com/UDxahBX.jpg
31/1/83

https://i.imgur.com/GMOJEoc.jpg
16/2/83

https://i.imgur.com/F998iwr.jpg
30/6/84

cj241101

16th May 2018, 10:15

and a few more:-

https://i.imgur.com/kd73Ngo.jpg
16/4/85

https://i.imgur.com/lKO6RlB.jpg
11/5/82

https://i.imgur.com/HFzDbX2.jpg
1/1/85

https://i.imgur.com/tOoeO79.jpg
17/5/80. Navajo behind is G-BRGV

Air Ecosse were probably the biggest Datapost operator, starting with a single Bandeirante flight in the summer of 1979, going up to at least 4 a night in the mid-80's. My only picture isn't great but here it is, on a rare daytime visit:-

https://i.imgur.com/4UIlcLq.jpg
G-POST 22/7/80

Datapost moved their operation to Coventry, anyone remember when? (late 80's I think).