Saudia

[mutt]

what is the point of offering 20/10? Would you believe that a lot of the locals think that quality of life is more important than money? So they like the idea of 10 days off.

[hammock]

Dear all gentleman,

I'm interested to join SV. May I know how's the working environment? Cockpit atmosphere?
Appreciate your advice.

[polax52]

The working environment and atmosphere is generally reasonable.

Current failure rates during training remain high at around the 50% level which is a little better than a few years ago but still very high. Interview pass rates are better but shortly Saudia will start formal background checks.

[mutt]

shortly Saudia will start formal background checks. about time :)

is the 50% failure rate in the sim or line training? and is it aircraft specific?

[polax52]

I think the 50% failure rate is a mixture of both of those, at a guess I would say more failures come during line training. I think there is a lot of pressure on the academy to get people through the ground part of training. The Saudi line instructors however are not going to put anybody who they are not happy with in front of GACA or up for the company check. Fleets, well I have heard of failures on all fleets.

You can fairly accurately say that 50% of people who start today will not be here in 1 years time.

[hammock]

Dear Polax52,

May I know generally, what are the failure items in either sim or line training?
Is training in SV really stressful or tough?
Need your advice. TQ

[mutt]

Skyteam member this week has outlined planned Boeing 787-9 operations, currently scheduled to enter service from Feb 2016. Initially the Boeing 787-9 will operate domestic flights, as well as Gulf service to/from Dubai, followed by service to Europe and China from March 2016.

Configuration of the 787-9 is J24Y274, total 298 seats.

Planned Boeing 787-9 operation as follow.

eff 01FEB16 Jeddah – Riyadh Various frequencies. First flight scheduled on SV1020 from JED to RUH
eff 01FEB16 Jeddah – Dammam Various frequencies
eff 01FEB16 Jeddah – Dubai 1 daily SV588/589 (until 29FEB16)
eff 01FEB16 Riyadh – Dubai Various frequencies
eff 01MAR16 Jeddah – Guangzhou 2 weekly
eff 01MAR16 Jeddah – Manchester 4 weekly
eff 01MAR16 Jeddah – Paris CDG 1 daily
eff 01MAR16 Riyadh – Guangzhou 3 weekly

I believe that it will be 9 across economy seating, really cant say that I'm looking forward to flying in this as I think that the 787 seats are just too narrow.

[alloha]

Allow me to offer my dime on the failure rate for this year. Untill end of June things were running very smooth.only 5-6 failures out of 60 ppl. At that time an expat skip made a crucial mistake in his GACA oral. He had a confrontation with his examiner. The examiner failed him ASAP as well as the next 2 expat skippers (collateral losses :\).the guy in question ,left the company without notice,he didn't even pay the extras on the hotel.since then things got a very sloppy road.7 out of 8 expats from the next group had difficulties and i dont know about their status right now.Training in SV has one key word ATTITUDE.The right one gives a fair chance to complete your training . The wrong one,on the other hand gives an one way ticket back to your country .All in all failure rate this year is not by any means close to 50% .(approximately 120 expats had joined SV until late June) People in the training are very helpful and willing to assist all the expats with their tasks as long as their culture and their way of thinking are totally understood.People with high ego and high temp forced to quit.people with a lower self esteem and better acting capabilities had no problem at all .its a long process mostly due to lack of IPs in the line training .6-7 months is an average time until the end of training,with huge gaps aftre the rating and the SO or the RH seat flights.

[polax52]

Alloha- Are you considering the line training? I understand people are coming through the training academy better these days.

I was referring to a particular group of 6 guys who joined last year of which only 3 remain.

[fireball_23]

@Mutt : does it mean Sv will fly twice a day to CDG ? or the 787 takes over the 777 ?
Regarding the training, the failure rate has been HUGE for the past 2 months. But Alloha summed up it very well. It's all about attitude ( and a lot of studies ).

[mutt]

or the 787 takes over the 777 ? I'm assuming that it will take over from the 777 as they already have two flights most days with one to Riyadh.

[fireball_23]

:( ok. Thanks for the reply !

[polax52]

Hammock: In my opinion the training is both stressful and tough and add to that; very long. It goes for 5 to 8 months and you need to meet standards at every stage, it is by no means a formality. I imagine that training is now more streamlined than it was as alloha appears to be more up to date than me and his view is that the failure rate is now less than 50%. Even so I doubt that many more than 50% who start today will still be in Saudia on the 1st September 2016.

With some airlines if you enter as a direct entry Captain then it is a formality, that is definately not the case with Saudia.

[alloha]

Polax i am not only referring to the academy stage but line training as well. Certainly as you mentioned skippers training is not a formality. But things have changed.Still the most demanding training in the ME

[Ve764]

Hey everybody just a recap of day one SV interview. Twelve of us went to the Intercon Hotel this morning.We were met by the CP HR rep and a Airbus check airman.We were given an ATP 50 question multiple choice test. There are two exam tests.Followed by a 10 question 10 min apptitude test.We then turn in the required paperwork and waited for our time to interview. Mine lasted 30 mins and it was professional but friendly but not "laid back". I encourage you to study memory items and limitations on your specific aircraft.We all passed,and are waiting Day 2 for the medical and Day 3 for the sim ride..I'll update after those events...V

[hammock]

@Polax52 @alloha

Thanks for the info. Knowing that SV training are stressful, tough and long, however perhaps it's still manageable. Finger crossed!!!!

May I know the meaning of "the training now is more streamlined"? Does it means the training syllabus have been simplified?

Since you mentioned the instructors are helpful, hopefully the training atmosphere is more enjoyable and less tensed. Am I right?

Good day.

[polax52]

By more streamlined I simply mean that the scheduling is more efficient, the training materials are better and they have removed the requirement for the GACA ATP written test. Therefore you spend less time in the training centre.

It is manageable but it is a risk to leave a good widebody job to come to Saudia because there is a very real failure rate unlike many other direct entry commands.

[ClearedToCrush]

I could believe that the failure rate is high but I think 50% rate is a bit exaggerated. What about the other middle east carriers ( EK OR EY)? Do they also have a high failure rate? Im not hijacking the subject but I think a comparison would be necessary in order to understand how risky the decision to join Saudia is.

[polax52]

I could believe that the failure rate is high but I think 50% rate is a bit exaggerated. What about the other middle east carriers ( EK OR EY)? Do they also have a high failure rate? Im not hijacking the subject but I think a comparison would be necessary in order to understand how risky the decision to join Saudia is.

As alloha has stated it is probably not 50% currently but it certainly has been as high as 50% in the recent past. I guess people know better what is expected now. Other middle East carriers do not have a high failure rate of direct entry Captains. I would guess that Saudi f/o's will not accept being bypassed in seniority by people who do not meet the standards that they have to meet during their 1 year long upgrade course.

[ClearedToCrush]

Hello Polax,
Thank you for the clarification. I was actually thinking about the failure rate of first officers, not captains. Is this also high? And what is it compared to other middle east carriers?

[polax52]

Hello Polax,
Thank you for the clarification. I was actually thinking about the failure rate of first officers, not captains. Is this also high? And what is it compared to other middle east carriers?

I have not heard of any F/O failures. That doesn't mean there haven't been any but F/O's do not need to go up in front of GACA during line training, I'm not sure whether they do during sim. training or not.

[alloha]

FO's have to go through GACA oral and GACA rating. The only difference with captains is that they have less sectors for line training and as polax said not GACA check during line training

[ClearedToCrush]

No failures for FO's? This is good news! By the way I read in previous pages that the upgrade time for FO is really slow. What is the average time? Is it possible that they might accelerate command upgrades due to many aircraft orders?

[polax52]

Upgrades at Saudia for foreign Pilots are still a very rare occurrence. There may be plans to upgrade but you would have a very long seniority list ahead of you and then the upgrade course itself is 12 months, probably the longest in the industry.

[mutt]

What is the average time? Guys under evaluation now have served for 10 years!

[Blue Macaw]

Hello everyone, just got my confirmation e-mail to join! Does anyone know how long does it take to get all the paperwork done, visa and then get the ticket to go? I have been reading many of your post. Just don`t want to sound dumb or unaware,but , just simple question. As I imagine , this is the right place to do it!

[polax52]

Paperwork including visa should take about a month.

[mutt]

take about a month Once the offices reopen in two weeks time :):)

[Flyboy_SG]

BM, It depends on which part of the world from. Anywhere from 1-3 months !

[Blue Macaw]

Thank you all you guys! There are a few guys from the same screening day that already got their joining date! But most of the group haven`t got any news so far!

[polax52]

Blue Macaw- Out of interest: How many got a joining date? Which types?

[Scott_T]

Hi guys,

I have been trying to aply to Saudia but everytime I try to log in it says I already have an account I have tried with 3 different e-mails I have tried to retrieve my password with 3 different e-mails and still it just says " the info you have entered is incorrect" my soul is broken trying to apply ha, can someone give an inside e-mail address i can e-mail to try resolve this issue or even a phone number to call them...? the PPJN number is out dated now,

Thanks Gents

Also can you commute home working with Saudia? what are the blocks of offs like?

[Blue Macaw]

I had the same problem sometime ago, I tried many ways and I ended up getting all I needed from PCC Pilot Career Center. Check the website, there is the recruitment e-mail , that is how I got their attention ! Good luck!!

[Blue Macaw]

We were screened in the end of august ! About 60% of the guy for A 320 and 330 the rest of us to the B777. I got my ok on the first half of september. They asked me to send my availability to process the visa send the Job Offer. So far nothing yet. I guess things will be back to normal after the holidays. So, are you on the B 777? If so, how is it?

[memoryitems]

Hi guys and girls,
I got the call for SV interview but need a bit of advise on
Pay end of month realistic ?
Commuting Rosters if available ?
Can anyone throw some light for me ?
Appreciate:confused::{:mad:

[polax52]

memoryitems:


It's not just you, I get PM's and e-mails from former colleagues asking exactly the same thing.


It can not have been more clearly stated: this is not in anyway a commuting or commutable job.


You get one block of 5 days per month, they can and will use you until midnight on the day before those days start and they'll have you in at 4 am after they finish. The block of days off is flexible to the company when operational requirements justify. Remember we are very short of Pilots and operational requirement has priority.


I like the job but please forget commuting, if you want to stay at home then find a job close to home. This job is in Saudia Arabia.


No more commuting questions!!!

[alloha]

I dont know if its 100% confirmed,but the recent road shows in Malaysia will bring to to JED more than 100 pilots.Mostly from MAS. Some people mentioned 140. And last but not least. SVA already is advertising vacancies for the 787 ( both captains and F/Os. Also it is the first time that the company states minimum requirements for command upgrade (3 years or 2000h). Of course its a bate. Upgrades will never take place before someone has a minimum of 9-10 years in the company. And we can only speculate as an expat upgrade has never happened before .
Also no more available vacancies on the 777 for F/Os with Airbus experience.Many complaints from local F/Os who are stacked on the 320 for 4-5 years.

[mutt]

And we can only speculate as an expat upgrade has never happened before . Course they have, they have always upgraded FO's in accordance with their seniority, last group were from 747 Classic to Embraer, they even developed a program of right seat flying to get them proficient with the glass cockpit, some made, some didnt and returned to the Classic.

There are FO's on the A330 who have either undergone their upgrade evaluation or need to get their ATP written's done prior to the evaluation, so to say that it has never happened is unfair, BUT it has taken these guys 10 years for their seniority numbers to come up!

[Flyboy_SG]

Apparently it was a cake walk for MAS guys. 15 min interview and medical ! That's it.

[msian1147]

Yeah 60 guys from the B738 alone

[mutt]

60 guys from the B738 alone For which seats?

Now where are they going to live :):)

[alloha]

Mutt I didn't know that expats have been upgraded in the past . Nevertheless the procedure is the same as in any typical flag carrier (with the recent exception of BA with the A320 captains who got training for the A380). First all the way up to the top as a FO then back on the initial type. Minimum 10 years

[msian1147]

I'd say two-thirds are DEC, and equal number of CAs and FOs from the B772

[mutt]

10 years ago they had 9 First Officers on the Classic. They were all assessed for command. Then they hired FO's for the Classic and MD11, so in the last 10 years there was no one with the seniority to get offered an upgrade.
Anyone who joins today will need 1000 others to upgrade before them and remember that the system is biased, it will accept a few expat upgrades at a time, but it wont accept a full class, so seniority numbers will be jumped.

[polax52]

Yeah 60 guys from the B738 alone

With 2 more 777's coming in the next year and 4 787's plus 80 retirements that's 220 pilots required without mentioning anything about Airbus.

100 Malaysian pilots; what percentage are really going to want to stay living in Jeddah, home 3 days a month. I think this could be a shot in the foot, they maybe filling the training academy for 6 months with guys who'll go home at the first opportunity.

[alloha]

New rostering program (Jeppesen) soon to be implemented.most probably from January or February

GACA authorized the CCQ for the 320-330 transition .

New joiners who are type rated in SV types will not have to do the type rating again.

No more Jepp updates:D:D:D: iPad usage starts from the E-170 next month and within the next 2-3 months (they say 6 weeks but I double it for obvious reasons :)) all the fleets will use the Jepp application on the iPad.

140 pilots got hired from MAS.

New hotel for the new joiners . Shared accommodation in a 180m suite (each individual with his own bedroom plus hotel transportation to the Academy)

Houses allocation is now based on the day of joining . New joiners do not visit the housing department in S.City for choosing their house but only to get registered. Allocation is being made from a new manager on the FLT ops as there were many complaints as people with 6-10 months in JED were stuck in the Hotel and other people with 3-6 weeks got a house.

That's all folks

[Blue Macaw]

Hey, nice to hear your updates! I`m new in SV , hoping by the time I get all the works done I get an accomodation for me and the family! So, no single room for each new comer? I hope to get a nice roomate ! It`s like colleague time , lottery I are lucky to get a nice person to share the room with you!

[Flyboy_SG]

Good news :D

But what's the deal on 787. They have advertised for non rated 787 pilots in LPJ.

[fireball_23]

Regarding the hotel, you either go to a single room hotel ( Habitat Hotel ) or in a sharing suite ( Radisson Blu ). There is a kitchen in the suite, which is a big +, and a supermarket down the street.

[Blue Macaw]

Tha sounds just perfect to me! You can get a good meal and still save some money! How long usually takes the whole process of joining and get your line check? Is there anyway you can print the manuals for the ground school? I`m a bit old fashion when it comes to study material!

Thanks for the tips!!!

[polax52]

The 140 Malaysian guys are confirmed.


787 courses for the first 3 aircraft are pretty well full, any remaining places will go to 744 Pilots as those aircraft retire. Therefore no more 787 places before May next year.


777 courses are also full until April next year.


I guess any recruitment for the coming 6 months will be for the Airbus.

[bravo45]

Can somebody confirm their requirements for FO on the wide body...

Basically my question is; Do they not accept any piston time for the total time? That is the impression I am getting from one HR contact I have. I was given a word application. For the flight time breakdown, that file only had space for Jet and Turboprop. So I listed what I had, and then in the total time I listed all of my time including GA time. And got an email that I don't meet the mins.

In my case that can only be the case if they are not accepting piston time. I am right at their mins if I can have all my time included.

[and]

Jet and glass that's what they like ...

[mutt]

Al-Jasser revealed that the company will also be undertaking a significant project to support its expansion in future stages by tendering a license for a Saudi city in Al-Khalidiya neighborhood. The city will be constructed over a space of 1.5 million square meters and will include commercial and residential towers. He said this project will achieve economic returns for the company that will help it expand and develop. This is going to be interesting, where do we go in the interim ?

will any of the malaysians be going to the Embraer fleet???

answered by this....

JEDDAH: Director General of Saudi Arabian Airlines, (Saudia) Saleh Al-Jasser, has announced that 19 planes will be taken out of service during the upcoming period, of which 15 are the Embraer type and four ‘747’ jumbo jets.

[alloha]

Mutt they are planning for two skyscrapers on the abandoned baseball court in Saudia City. The company is expecting a cost of up to 12M $ this year only for the hotel accommodation that is provided to the new joiners .The engineering department has already complete a full project for this particular area. The whole project is subject to approval within the next 2 months

[metro301]

Not totally abandoned.

All the JYBL kids that play on the fields during the winter would disagree with it being considered abandoned.

[Blue Macaw]

Hey guys, I was told to purchase an airline ticket to go to the screening process! Then I got here and they said they would refund my ticket to come and join! Do they ever pay you back ?

[rdr]

They are doing a door to door survey on occupancy in the compound.
The way I see it, there should be a Kuala base up next year.

[STS135]

Refund
Hey guys, I was told to purchase an airline ticket to go to the screening process! Then I got here and they said they would refund my ticket to come and join! Do they ever pay you back ?

Hello Blue Macaw,
yes they refund the ticket, but you must push and it could take 2 weeks..or months..
Keep all your documents to attest the expenses.
Good luck for the screening

[Blue Macaw]

Thank you ST135. I have kept all my receipts and a report with all expenses included!

[mothergoose1]

any chance of us a320 first officers getting in there,

[alloha]

Most probably u ll get hired on the A330. Expat FOs although it was advertised,never joined the A320 but only the 330 .since July assignments on the B777 only for those with boeing experience as local FOs complaining plus all the local cadets now start from the A320. According to a senior manager, hiring on the T7 will end by the end of January because SVA has only 4 more T7 to be delivered (2 pax 2 Freighters) so future needs will be covered with internal upgrades. Also some 777-200 are close to retirement. So for the foreseen future hiring only for Captains on the 320 and 330 as orders for new aircrafts already have been placed

[STS135]

Hello,
Some expats are still waiting for a house after almost 1 year and more and more pilots arrive. The company is unable to provide housing because the compound is full. And some houses must have a real refreshment before being usable.
New trainees will live in the hotel for a long long time. The company is growing and we don’t feel special efforts to improve anything. If you plan to relocate your family, just forget to be together before 6, 7,8...12 months.
The good thing being alone in the hotel is you will be fully available for the endless training and the dozen of exams, orals, simulator tests etc. you will have. It is not a piece of cake and you must study a lot if you don’t want to fail.
Expect at least 4/5 months training (even if you are already rated !) with unstable schedule, before approaching the aircraft (apparently worst on 777). Expect to push the people in the offices, for recovering the money you will give for the visas, Iqama, eventually the legendary relocation cheque (never paid)...and sometimes per diems.
The good thing is the wage arrives on time and if you attain the line training the salary is good. But about my experience I am disappointed by SVA. They don't care about you. When you call or you go for any information or help, the guy is never the one in charge of..
More and more guys think about leaving the company before the end of the training as they realize the mess.
This is an objective point of view and some are surprised when they discover the reality. If you want to fly for money it is the right place, but prepare yourself to have hard time…and think twice before leaving your current position.

[polax52]

Hello,
Some expats are still waiting for a house after almost 1 year and more and more pilots arrive. The company is unable to provide housing because the compound is full. And some houses must have a real refreshment before being usable.
New trainees will live in the hotel for a long long time. The company is growing and we don’t feel special efforts to improve anything. If you plan to relocate your family, just forget to be together before 6, 7,8...12 months.
The good thing being alone in the hotel is you will be fully available for the endless training and the dozen of exams, orals, simulator tests etc. you will have. It is not a piece of cake and you must study a lot if you don’t want to fail.
Expect at least 4/5 months training (even if you are already rated !) with unstable schedule, before approaching the aircraft (apparently worst on 777). Expect to push the people in the offices, for recovering the money you will give for the visas, Iqama, eventually the legendary relocation cheque (never paid)...and sometimes per diems.
The good thing is the wage arrives on time and if you attain the line training the salary is good. But about my experience I am disappointed by SVA. They don't care about you. When you call or you go for any information or help, the guy is never the one in charge of..
More and more guys think about leaving the company before the end of the training as they realize the mess.
This is an objective point of view and some are surprised when they discover the reality. If you want to fly for money it is the right place, but prepare yourself to have hard time…and think twice before leaving your current position.

I agree entirely. They have bitten off more than their infrastructure can chew. They have Saudi office workers who have jobs for life and who work short flexible hours and therefore getting jobs done and sorting out financial errors can be extremely frustrating.

Given the current accommodation situation and the fact that this contract is truly non commuting; I would suggest that if you have a young family it may be better to look for work at the big 3.

[Romasik]

Well, it takes about 1.5 years to comletely settle down. You know what you are suffering for. Then it's all easy. If you are not patient enough, look for another place. And good luck to find the same money:)

[ghost7]

Hello
In the training phase, is it possible to bring my family with a visit visa?
thank's

[alloha]

I totally agree on the housing issue and the relocation bonus (some of us call it antiquity bonus ) but as far as it goes for reimbursement on expenses being made for visas travel expenses for the interview and per diem the company is faultless.they reimburse everything on your next salary ,sometimes even before that.

[Flyboy_SG]

I'm Leaving to JED on 15th and starting on 22nd Nov. Anyone with me ?

[alloha]

@ghost7. Yes you can but its not a good idea.

[fireball_23]

Alloha are you sure ? I've been told it's impossible..

[polax52]

Once your iquama is issued, this takes probably around 2 weeks from the date you arrive; you can then get the family visit visa's issued, this will take between 2 weeks and 2 months.


I recommend though that once you have your iquama that you directly get your family their residence permits i.e. their iquama's. This takes a little over 2 months because you have to wait for the company to do an interview for you.

[msian1147]

Heard they're coming to KUL again for another roadshow, can anyone confirm this? Thanks

[fireball_23]

Ok thanks for the reply Polax. I'll do it as soon as possible !

[Blue Macaw]

Yes, I will be in the same training !

[787Flyer]

Hello everybody

I am standing by for signing my preliminary contract, as F/O 787' I am current and rated on it, any idea about length of line training..???

And another thing , about the oral tests, what are the materials,is it by heart or you can look through the books..??

Thanx all.

[guiones]

As of now regardless of your type and licenses you have to do a complete initial, plus all Saudia courses and English Proficiency, Saudia Medical, CRM, DG's etc. Count on 3 to 4 very intense months hard study and training, the standards are high and you will have to study hard. Testing is US style with Oral exams. If you don't study you will not pass. If you do it will be fair.

No open book, recall/memory items and limitations a must 100%; and good systems knowledge, performance, GOM, Jeppesen Company Procedures.

Line training is done in one month with pre IOE oral, IOE, Final Oral and Final Check in your case as F/O by a Saudia Check Pilot.

The plus side is once you are released, it will be very nice work; best pay in the ME, never late and you will be in a very relaxed atmosphere including recurrents.


PM me if you need anything else.

Guiones

[777AV8R]

Hello,
Some expats are still waiting for a house after almost 1 year and more and more pilots arrive. The company is unable to provide housing because the compound is full. And some houses must have a real refreshment before being usable.
New trainees will live in the hotel for a long long time. The company is growing and we don’t feel special efforts to improve anything. If you plan to relocate your family, just forget to be together before 6, 7,8...12 months.
The good thing being alone in the hotel is you will be fully available for the endless training and the dozen of exams, orals, simulator tests etc. you will have. It is not a piece of cake and you must study a lot if you don’t want to fail.
Expect at least 4/5 months training (even if you are already rated !) with unstable schedule, before approaching the aircraft (apparently worst on 777). Expect to push the people in the offices, for recovering the money you will give for the visas, Iqama, eventually the legendary relocation cheque (never paid)...and sometimes per diems.
The good thing is the wage arrives on time and if you attain the line training the salary is good. But about my experience I am disappointed by SVA. They don't care about you. When you call or you go for any information or help, the guy is never the one in charge of..
More and more guys think about leaving the company before the end of the training as they realize the mess.
This is an objective point of view and some are surprised when they discover the reality. If you want to fly for money it is the right place, but prepare yourself to have hard time…and think twice before leaving your current position.

Well, well...I worked there from 1996 thru 1999. Some things never change and it sounds like, never will. Ground deeply in the old TWA thinking that never disappeared.

Housing was awful then...rats coming up the toilet, only to complain and be laughed at, then, my family kidnapped while I was doing a flight to EGLL..another story.

Nope...there are other fish to fry in this world.

[787Flyer]

Thank you very much for the info. Do you have any idea about the planned destinations .???

[alloha]

After the first 2 months of round trips in the Area they have announced CDG ( from JED) CAN MAN . They have second thoughts for YYZ as the loads are high and most probably the 777 will continue to operate

[NGCl]

Hey guys I got my confirmation email two weeks ago and since then nothing, I've sent them my letter of release since the first November. Does anyone know how long it will take for the visa and job offer letter. Fo t7

[alloha]

New destination for the 777 is MLE. And with a 48H lay over. Ok expats forget it. It will be like CMN .Locals with the high seniority will bid for that and will get it

[Flyboy_SG]

We have 39 Pilots in the current batch. 8-777 capts 15-777 FOs 3-330 Capts 5-330 FOs 7-320 pilots(2-FO)

We are the last B777 batch starting Jan 16 for some time. As they have just 1 B777 coming in 2016. 4 787s are to added in Dec 15 n 4 more in 2016. They have frozen recruitment on A320 too. It will take some time for the next induction I guess as they struggling with our batch due to huge numbers. But expect a lot of recruitment in 2016 and onwards with joining in late 2016 n 2017. Company is growing and I hope the upgrade time reduces.

And do comein with at least 2000 USD to spend in for food, transports and Iqamas(work permit). As you have to wait for next pay date and allowances/reimbursements take their own sweet time :)

[mutt]

Company is growing and I hope the upgrade time reduces. Latest guys to get assessed for upgrade have 10 years seniority. The Saudi FO's are extremely annoyed with direct hires as they are obviously filling slots that they believe should be theirs, therefore the company will stop direct hires as soon as possible.

The first company sponsored university graduate pilots should start to return from the USA next summer, they are the start of the long term solution.

But right now, rather than worrying about your upgrade, you should really be concentrating on passing your present training.

[Flyboy_SG]

I'm not worrying about the upgrade Mutt. I said I hope it reduces.

[argentina21]

Will they be hiring expatriates into the 787?

[Flyboy_SG]

Yes if you are type rated with experience.

[NGCl]

I've received an email saying that i have passed the medical and simulator check. They asked for my joining date, I've replied to it about three weeks ago and since then nothing. Do you know how long it will take for the visa and job offer. Thanks

[Flyboy_SG]

Depends on case to case basis. Better call up and speak to the guy who sent you the mail. They keep quiet when they dont have training schedule on your joining date usually.

[NGCl]

That's what I thought, will call him. Thanks a lot

[mutt]

Sounds like another 2 777 guys have failed their training in the last month or so. One in the sim and another in IOE.....

Buyer beware!

[polax52]

Only 2 that's a major improvement.....

[argentina21]

Were the two 777 guys captains or FOs?

[Flyboy_SG]

Captains I heard.

[mutt]

Captains, one with EASA 777 rating and major airline experience, I don't believe that he got out of simulator training. The other failed in IOE.

But as Polax52 said, this is better than last year :)

[King on a Wing]

@ Flyboy
Quick question.
T7 Skipper, does the assessment and clears. What might he be expected to be offered. 777 or 787 ?
Thanks.
And I heard that there is still a requirement of at least 40-45 t7 skippers. Is that anywhere close to the truth. Thanks again.

[polax52]

@ Flyboy
Quick question.
T7 Skipper, does the assessment and clears. What might he be expected to be offered. 777 or 787 ?
Thanks.
And I heard that there is still a requirement of at least 40-45 t7 skippers. Is that anywhere close to the truth. Thanks again.

If you're type rated they will not turn you away. There will be ongoing demand but on the Boeing fleets it will slow down significantly compared to the recruitment over the last couple of years. The real demand over the next 5 years will be Airbus.

[mutt]

Is the atmosphere in the right seat B777 really that bad?

[Flyboy_SG]

Yes, for this year they need T7 skippers badly. Future is Airbus, lot of them joining us. Captains are given priority in training due to shortage.

King, you'll be assigned on T7 and may be pulled out for 787 later. Or you can request them for 787. With previous command experience on T7 they will consider your request. But expect to make less money on 78, and some turn around flights. Also expect a training time of not less than 6-7 months(or longer) for FO and more than 7 for captains(even if rated and current). As of now too many of us in training and no sim slots. Soon guys will be sent to IST
also for initial sims, apart from CAI & DXB.

Mutt, the long term solution is too far from reality. And the solution will happen only in long term aka far future. Good for us !

[King on a Wing]

Many thanks Flyboy.
Has anybody done the pre employment medicals. What are they like. Any specials there?
And any info on the screening simulator session would really be appreciated.
Thanks again in advance.

[Flyboy_SG]

Nothing to worry. Everything is straight fwd. prepare for non precision approach into jeddah. VOR/LOC.

[alloha]

50 % of success in training in Saudia is attitude. I know 2-3 people who failed just because of their ego. And I can assure you they are excellent Captains.and I know some others less talented but smart enough to put aside their egos and they had a smooth ride. On the 320 things are a bit more difficult cause lots of the instructors are captains with 4-5 years on the left seat and it's quite hard for a very experience captain to tolerate bad attitude.On the T7 things are more balanced as all of the training department has extensive experience
Hiring on the T7 stops by end of January.

[mutt]

I wouldnt be surprised if they stopped it before then as the training backlog is crazy, plus lots of griping going on out on the line.

[polax52]

50 % of success in training in Saudia is attitude. I know 2-3 people who failed just because of their ego. And I can assure you they are excellent Captains.and I know some others less talented but smart enough to put aside their egos and they had a smooth ride. On the 320 things are a bit more difficult cause lots of the instructors are captains with 4-5 years on the left seat and it's quite hard for a very experience captain to tolerate bad attitude.On the T7 things are more balanced as all of the training department has extensive experience
Hiring on the T7 stops by end of January.

Let's put that into perspective, it is definitely possible for a good Pilot simply to fail because of ego but then is he a good Pilot if he can't hide his ego? In the modern era, I don't think so.

In my experience however most have failed for very good reason. Examples have been such as basic decision making repetitively poor e.g. making a go-around on a cat 2 due to an engine fire. On the line there have been Captains who simply cannot manually fly from the right seat. Another situation has been that if GACA need to re-check you, that seems to put you on a slippery slope. Any check after that failure you need to be pretty damn good.

[captainpluto]

Just got to know from the HR, Saudia has stopped hiring 777 fo's, so then why are they conducting screening's on Dec 16?

[polax52]

The way that I understand it is that they conduct screening generally and not for any specific fleet. I would imagine that F/O's who are accepted will be offered the A330. The A330 will be the expanding fleet.

[mutt]

20 A330-300 Regional and 30 A320ceo planes to its fleet The A320ceo will replace present leased aircraft, but the A330 fleet will increase from 12 to 32.

As for the B777, I believe that AK74 and AK30 are the last of the present orders and they are due early 2016.

Also 3 high level executives resigned in the last few days which is very unusual for this place as people tend to stay until they are forced out!

[ironbutt57]

et's put that into perspective, it is definitely possible for a good Pilot simply to fail because of ego but then is he a good Pilot if he can't hide his ego? In the modern era, I don't think so.

still very possible and probable...a good "stick" doesn't mean a good fit into company ops.....

[polax52]

At Saudia you need to be a good stick and a good fit.


Or at least be able to act.

[Flyboy_SG]

No more FO interviews.

[King on a Wing]

Got my QR call.
Will let you know how it goes.

[alloha]

The arrival of aircrafts postponed until February. Don't know the reason but it's confirmed.the first of them stopped the test flights in Paine field almost 10 days ago

[mutt]

Story is that they have cancelled at least 4 of the 787's.

[argentina21]

Are they stopping all FO interviews or just for the 777?

[Chocks Away]

Correct Mutt & Alloha.
Wrong engines chosen for 787 & range not long enough for Totonto & CAN etc.
Three Seniour management sackings/forced resignations too it seems, prob in part to this.
A Malaysian breeze starting right now with 450+ arriving ex MAS.
Order for 777x imminent... on top of huge Airbus 320/21/330 order arriving shortly, + 773's & 787s coming. More airframes than the airport or training system can handle.

[mutt]

450+ arriving ex MAS And where exactly are they going to live?

[alloha]

@chocks away

Wrong engines?? Ok YYZ is 12h but CAN is roughly 9. What kind of engines did they choose that can not cover a 9h flight? Doesn't make any sense since the company has experience on this kind of things. I heard that GACA still in the process of approval for the EFB as Boeing does not accept manual calculations for the b787.
465 Malaysians?? Well i know for 150 but 465 sounds beyond reality.and housing is only one issue apart from others

[mutt]

Doesn't make any sense since the company has experience on this kind of things Could it be that the expats who were involved in the previous aircraft assessments/purchases are gone?

[alloha]

Well mutt I don't know if the 787-900 comes with medium range engines or some modifications on the fuel tanks (as the A330) . Even an amateur or an av geek can place the correct order . It's easier than ordering pizza for a family of 5-6 ppl with different tastes :8. I mean how difficult is to tick the appropriate boxes ? Sorry it's hard to buy it:)

[Chocks Away]

Alloha - I don't know. I do know the MAS 777 fleet is being canned and that 460 of them have completed medicals here and being processed.
Housing? Yes lets see :) What's the status of this new Compound to the North of the Airport? Still large areas of empty Units, tucked away (N.E. & NC)
Flight times? London was 7.45 hrs a few days ago so alot longer across the Atlantic over winter.
Possibly they have it (787) targeted for new West Coast USA ports?

[mutt]

The aircraft has at least two engine choices and the options of additional fuel tanks, they initially took the correct configuration but later changed to the smaller engine option and no additional tanks!

With these engines it will be climb limited from Riyadh during the summer, so its like going back to the Classic days.

But now that the House of Donuts is closed, its difficult to get real facts anymore :):)

[redbaron60]

Hi guys,
Would like to have an information. If successful at the screening test and offered a job what kind of benefits you'll get with the " package"? Any medical insurance? Will it be valid for spouse and sons as we'll? Coverage only in Saudi Arabia or also worldwide?
Thanks for any reply

[ayman]

Hi Fellows,
i ve filled the electronuc form thru pilotcareercenter.com on Nov ,14th.

Dec,10 i received an email including an applicatiin form to fill n return.

Could this be sign for future screening call?

Thanks all

[redbaron60]

Can anybody, please, answer my question!!!???

[mutt]

Are you talking left seat or right seat? Assignment will be based on their needs at the time, for example if they hire anymore FO's, they will go to the A330.

Medical in Kingdom only.

[redbaron60]

I' ll be checked as cpt.

[alloha]

Mutt medical do take place in EGYPT Air's clinic in Cairo as well. At least that was the case until July

[mutt]

I' ll be checked as cpt. Inshallah....

What position did you APPLY for?

[redbaron60]

I am type rated on B737 NG and I applied for DEC and ticked off B747/777 and a320. But very, very little interested on the latter...

[alloha]

@redbaron without experience on a wide body forget ,without any exemption, being hired on the WB fleet. Many crews from the 320 with ticket for the 787 now will have to wait as the airplanes will not arrive before March

[VAMY]

Adel, PM me and I'll try to give you the latest SP on the B777 package.

[mutt]

Saudi Arabian Airlines launches 'Albayraq' VIP serviceTravel & Tourism - Zawya (http://www.zawya.com/story/Saudi_Arabian_Airlines_launches_Albayraq_VIP_service-ZAWYA20151229040937/)

New corporate scheduled operation between Jeddah and Riyadh using leased ACMI A319's

[Kapitanleutnant]

Honest question here...

Have heard SV on the verge of huge order of jets. How will they pay for these just given the debt and current price of oil in the world. Should this be a concern?

Thx

Kap

[polax52]

If the Oil price remains low for an extended period then it may have an impact on Saudia but Saudia is considered to be an important part of the development and diversification away from oil. It is therefore a long way down the list of government cut backs.

[mutt]

How will they pay for these just given the debt and current price of oil in the world

Get the banks to finance them like every other airline :)

[Airbus3181]

"New joiners who are type rated in SV types will not have to do the type rating again"


I'm currently flying the A340 and I suppose to join SV soon.

Could you tell me if Saudia could propose a CCQ 340/330 or if I have to do all A330 Training? What about the bond?

Thank you for your support,

[mutt]

CCQ? Based on the fact that their own 340 qualified pilots are not allowed fly the 330, I would assume that you would have to do the whole course and have the associated bond.

They are talking about CCQ for the 320/330 for IP's, but its slow in coming.

[despegue]

If you want to fly as DEC on widebody, based in Jeddah, another possibility is Air Atlanta Icelandic.

They currently have 17 aircraft flying for SV I think, all B744 ( cargo and pax.) except for one A332.

They might have a friendlier atmosphere and training too...

[Saudia_Expat]

We, the company, doesn't really care what type of aircraft your currently flying, only that your experience fits into certain groups. A330 is a group "D" aircraft at Saudia, along with the 747, 777, and 787. A340 would be considered group "D" experience, so it qualifies you. Regardless of the aircraft you're on now, the one you get trained on here may or may not be the same. A full course is required regardless, but without any bonds.

[Saudia_Expat]

Are you talking left seat or right seat? Assignment will be based on their needs at the time, for example if they hire anymore FO's, they will go to the A330.

Medical in Kingdom only.

There are two medicals required for new hires. The first is the pre-hire medical which can be done in several places (US, UK, KSA). The initial GACA medical must be done at Saudia Medical in Jeddah. GACA renewals can be done with anyone of a number private examiners.

[Saudia_Expat]

If you want to fly as DEC on widebody, based in Jeddah, another possibility is Air Atlanta Icelandic.

They currently have 17 aircraft flying for SV I think, all B744 ( cargo and pax.) except for one A332.

They might have a friendlier atmosphere and training too...

These will likely be short-lived positions, as rumours within are that Saudia wants to rid itself of the leased operators.

[Saudia_Expat]

Is the atmosphere in the right seat B777 really that bad? No, generally is pretty good. Lots of hours and $$$'s. Better than a lot of places.

[King on a Wing]

@ Saudi Expat.

Very informative and generously excellent posts sir.
Keep up the good work and please keep this accurate information coming.
Cheers

[mutt]

These will likely be short-lived positions

After 20 years of operating for SVA, i thought that Air Atlanta was a subsidiary:)

They have at least 30 leased aircraft so it will take a few years to get rid of them if the desire exists!

[alloha]

In fact Air Atlanta costs Saudia less than its ownv fleet. Salaries of the crews are way much lower because are based on productivity and Air Atlanta's crews rarely fly more than 450h a year. On top of that make sure that those agreements between Air Atlanta and Saudia make some people happy.and i am not talking for Air Atlanta financial department :cool:

[ac100]

Gentlemen,

Just wondering if you could confirm or dispel some rumours floating around. I have an assessment lined up in February for a widebody left seat position. it would be an attractive move if the following rumour were confirmed:

* Commuting rosters with a total of 11 days off in a row a month being provided.

Also, could someone actually confirm the remuneration in-hand every month with a regular block of flying. I have the sheet that is provided with the application but getting different numbers from different sources. The actual amount every month would be very helpful.

I would appreciate any information that you can provide on the company, remuneration and ability to commute would be very beneficial. Thank you in advanace for your replies.

Cheers,
AC100.

[alloha]

@ac100

1) commuting roster with eleven days off? NOT A CHANCE! 5 days off per month is the max .

2) Honestly dont worry about your salary .Saudia is among the top payers in the industry. Easily u gonna make double from a skipper in EK

[CAT3A]

Alloa,

Thanks again for all the info......anybody can reveal the average monthly flight hours left seat B777.

Am sure it will be less than the 90+ of EK

[alloha]

An average line has 72-75h per month plus 3-4 days of reserve. During the Offseason you may never get a flighy during reserve. During high season you ll get a line of 80h and you will fly during your reserve days so you can reach 90-95 even 100 hours. But 100h in saudia are heavily paid.

[polax52]

AC100- If you were to take 11 days in a row off in a month using medical or vacation then your net salary would be the basic which is 36,000 SAR, around $9,500.


Alloha- I think you're joking about Saudia skippers being paid better than EK, you're obviously not familiar with their full benefits and profit sharing package. EK skippers can make comfortably 90,000 SAR if you break down all the components of their contract. Unlike Saudia, that is not particularly fleet dependant. At Saudia, A330, 747 and now probably 787 guys are netting around 70% of what you can net on the 777. Going forward recruitment will be for the A330, I think that you have to be very lucky to come from the outside now and go onto the 777.

[alloha]

Profit sharing package is an extra 12% of EK contribution. Starting salary is a bit more than SV salary and they get overtime when they go above92H .there is no way to pocket more then 55K AED .they get a house we get a house. Not to mention the cost of living in DXB. I am well aware of their figures i have close friends and lots of them are looking for something else. Some EK skippers joined SV in the last year and the reason was salary.

[ac100]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all your input and information provided, it has been very useful. I would only be interested in the B777 and if all hiring is now on the A330 it would not be worthwhile attending at this stage.

Once again, thank you for all the information thus far.

Cheers,
AC100.

[msian1147]

Does anybody know when will be the next B777 FO intake?

[alloha]

not possible in the next 12-18 months. Only 2 frames to be delivered in 2016

[argentina21]

How about A330 FO hiring?

[Chocks Away]

Eleven 773's coming this year Alloha, all but one arriving from July onwards.
Positions on those all taken courtesy of MAS (their 777 fleet doing a David Copperfield from Feb!) and SV internal movements, so 777s vacancies not there now until much latter & all newbies onto Airbus as was previously mentioned above.
Ten 333 coming from August and four 32neos from Nov.
Two new sims inbound to the Academy courtesy of CAE (see Dubai Airshow releases), a 773 & 787...when the room is available :bored:
:ok: Happy Landings

[fireball_23]

Some people are speaking about a meeting ( yesterday or the day before ) regarding the commuting. I haven't heard or received any emails. Is it a fantasy ? ( again haha )

[mutt]

Eleven 773's coming this year Alloha Where are they coming from? AK30 is the last one shown on the Boeing site.

[alloha]

@fireball 23. Yeap the meeting took place in RUH but hold your horses. 20-10 is not an option at the moment and there is nit a chance for setting this base before next year at least. No accommodation so far. Basically it was an exchange of opinions etc etc. Big disappointment for lots of expats. Not even a 22-8 is an option.normal lines as per JED based FDC

@mutt i got the same question with you but i show the email with the delivery dates and the registration numbers. All of them to be delivered within the next 14 months.

[fireball_23]

Thank you for the informations Alloha ! :ok:

[argentina21]

I heard from a reliable source that the E-170s are being extended. Does anyone know for how long?

[North_Bedouin]

E70 currently scheduled till 30NOV.

[Flyboy_SG]

What really is happening with B777 FO training? Does anyone has any idea?

[Keep walking]

Hi guys,

I will join A330 fleet soon as a Captain.Does anybody have some informations about that?
Destinations,money,flights,crew and etc...???

thanks...::O:O:O

[alloha]

@keep walking

You are joining the perfect fleet as is the fleet that flies the less. So you will have plenty of time to go over this thread and look how many posts do exist for the A330.

[7oodaz]

Guys my joining date on the A330 as a FO is on 3rd of April and my travel date on 27th of March , anyone with me ?
and anyone has any idea what are the destinations and layovers of the A330, scheduling and hours per month ?
thanks .

[mutt]

What really is happening with B777 FO training? Thought you started this course a few months ago, so tell us whats happening?

As for the A330, draw a range circle of about 10 hours around Saudi, thats what the aircraft is capable of doing, so lots of nice potential layover destinations:):)

However, in reality it goes to India and Tunisia. This is the slowest fleet in the airline, very little overtime if any and an average of 70-80 hours, unfortunately this doesn't translate into more time at home due to poor utilisation.

Enjoy!

[alloha]

@mutt 70-80 hours? Well don't know about tha captains but my neighbor is a FO in the 330 and he hasn't reached the 70h mark yet. He flies 63-68 a month

[mutt]

Quite true, 330 Captains are doing higher hours than the FO's......

It's worth bearing in mind that for 63-68 hours, you don't earn overtime and you barely make productivity.

[fly77W]

Hi Gents,

Am scheduled for the screening next month, DEC B777, any and all the help will be much appreciated.

Regards,
Happy flying.

[Top gun pilot 797]

Fly 77w,
Let me try and be be brief.
I did the SV screening about a year ago. It was done in Cairo.
Whist the written tests, sims and interview were conducted quite professionally, what really really sucked was the way in which the Medical,examination was conducted.

It's conducted in a civilian government hospital where you have absolutely no common language, patients from all over the country crowded before you and in appalling unhygienic and absolutely unsanitary conditions. We were a group of 4 and it took us from 7am until 4pm to simply go thru something that could have been a breeze.

The eye doctor probes into your eyes for anything between 1-2 hours. There is no dis infecting any instruments, then probes again for another 1 hour after putting some drops into your eyes which leave you nearly blinded for the rest of the day!

The toilets are full of bloody cotton swabs and women's sanitary pads lying out in the open or simply in the dustbin. You are expected to give your urine sample in a dingy cubicle with no washing water or even a flush for that matter. And to top it all there is this strange looking dwarf of man with shifty eyes who squeezes himself into the same 3ft/3ft cubicle while you pee...!!! Something to do with drug testing I think.
And I could swear that the lady who did the lung function test for the candidates was not changing the mouth piece where all others were blowing.

When I did my ECG and asked for cleaning up the gel from my body I was simply answered with 'no have'. 20 minutes of negotiations later I had to clean off all of the gook from my body with my own two socks!! Incidentally, my only handkerchief was being used for my eyes which simply didn't stop tearing after the drops and the 2 hours of invasive probing.

The nurse collecting my blood made 3 puncture wounds in my left arm before getting it right.
You are supposed to fast a day before but nobody tells you that. Why? Language issues.
Pathetic comes to mind. But I shall coin a personal adjective and then rewrite this para.
Im not kidding when I say this. But I spent over a month and a half post SV medical simply recovering. I had an infection in both my eyes, got some kind of a skin reaction which later developed into an allergy exactly on the spot where the nurse took the blood from.
The ENT specialist was another circus clown. He keypad saying 'suck it' when what he actually meant to say was 'blow it'. All this whilst probing another unchanged, un disinfected and completely unsanitary ear probe into my ears and then another one into my nostrils later. Believe it made my hair stand on end. And an ENT check that normally should take no more than 5 minutes ended up taking more than 45 minutes.
And then to think that I would be doing this every 6 months!!!!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:
No way.
In fact I got my joining letter just 2 weeks later but I simply didn't reply. At no,point was I going to even consider this job if every 6 months I have to go through this trauma. At best !
No amount of money in the world can compensate you for lost health acquired ironically from a place where health is to be regained!
The building itself is like a slum in São Paulo. It's a standing ruin which should ideally be situated next to the historical pyramids. It might look older.
The only thing that looks older are the instruments and machines they use to probe and check you with.
And then they come back with these weird out of this world results. Three of us including my partner had to re take the blood sample simply because their machine would not give any readout of his their RBC count. They were theoretically bloodless zombies. And again, no syringe change. I refused till he did it.
We had a healthy looking 45'year old pilot with us. As per the physician checking him this pilot's blood pressure was 210/110. Walking dead...!!
On rechecking it was perfectly normal.
Cut a long story short. Your life and Licence is in the hands of these maniacs. And that too every 6 months.
Beware. Be very very aware.
I didn't take the job. Am very happy in another ME carrier where I do a medical every year and if I can bend and tie my shoe lace I'm fit.
BTW I'm a regular jogger and gym met with no known medical problem.
On the bright side this was over a year ago.
Things could have changed. But I wouldn't bet on it.
Off now.

[King on a Wing]

Hey guys,
Can anyone please advise me as to APPROXIMATELY how much would a B777 skipper make per month in USD if he flies say an average of 70 hrs on line. No overtime. Please factor in all per diems etc etc. House is looked after. And let's keep the kids education also out of the picture. So let's not factor those in either.
And whilst you're at it could you throw some light onto the tickets available for family and self too please.
Many thanks in advance for your replies.
Cheers.

[mutt]

Cut a long story short. Your life and Licence is in the hands of these maniacs. In Cairo!

Why would you go back to do your medical in Cairo? In fact why wouldn't you just go to an AME to do your annual medicals?

if he flies say an average of 70 hrs on line. No overtime How do you plan to fly less than the average 777 line?

[boeingdream787]

thanks top gun 797. This is something I couldn't have put better. Had a very similar scenario with my initial medicals in cairo. But I don't think I can blame Saudia for it. They seem not to know. Or maybe someone is making money on the side. One can never tell. Unlike you I didn't make it.

[King on a Wing]

What you're saying is that the average is more than 70 hrs.
In which case, may I ask what the average is. And what does one make doing that kind of flying. Just for the sake of it.

[mutt]

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1563/24514925910_bc25271800_c.jpg

Arrival of the first 787

[mutt]

Whats the vibe about the new Riyadh base?

Will it be by choice? or last in get the pleasure of moving there? And what impact will it have on crew earnings?

[fireball_23]

I've heard many things about it ! First, it was something related to the commuting. I believe it was a fair deal/sacrifice.
Now, a few guys told me something quite different. The new base would be mostly for expats… They haven't specified anything regarding the accommodation.
If the last option is true, you'll see tons of pilots leaving !

[King on a Wing]

Fireball.
When you say you'll see tone of pilots leaving do u mean leaving Saudia or do u mean leaving Jeddah for Riyadh?

[fireball_23]

I meant Saudia. As far as I know, most of the expats were expecting/hoping for a commuting. Or a least be able to manage 6 or 7 days off in a row. However, the reality is a little different. 5 consecutive days is very nice..if your hometown is not too far from the Kingdom. If you spend one day to travel + one more day to travel back, you get 3 days home.

On top of that, if they plan on sending people to RUH ( which is a very strict city ), you will see a lot of unhappy people.
But again, I am just sharing what I've heard.

[mutt]

The new base would be mostly for expats… Not true, over 500 crew in total, less than half will be expats and the compound will be either leased or built, so don't expect everyone to be there by summer 2016.

It's a pity, they were onto a winner with 20/10.

[alloha]

Mutt the vibes are not good. RUH base was an idea based on a 20-10 roster ,mostly as a fence to those who flee to NAS after the completion of the contract. But from the first meeting it was clear from the company that 20-10 is not on offer. Normal lines as per JED based FDC. Money wise for the T7 ,crews gonna lose the per diem for 2-3 times they operate flights out of RUH. Lots of expats who have their families abroad would love to move to RUH on a 20-10 roster. Even on a 22-8. But on a normal line as per JED i dont think anybody will move. On top of that the company doesnt have available accomodation for expats and if any the distance from the airport would be considerably higher

[Chocks Away]

Yes a big pity Alloha, as they could have fixed their crewing issues for the next 4 years, with a 20/10 roster... there would have be a flood of guys from EK/EY and all others in the region for such a commutable roster.

I'm told many of the ex-MAS guys are failing/not making the grade, which accentuates the problem too.

Yes the RUH accom is an issue I hear also. The flying lines would be cleaner/more efficient, with more long haul flights on your roster from there but the new Flt & Duty lims create an issue. One way is to follow Korean's or Cathay's rostering but we know that won't happen.

Happy landings :ok:

[Flyboy_SG]

Mutt, I'm likely to start T7 grounds in March. Have been waiting all this while. They have been having issues. Due to shortage and more failures of captains, they take just 4-6 FOs per batch.

[alloha]

4-6 FO's per Batch is good enough .each bach has 14 people. Keep im mind that Saudi FO's from the 320 keep complaining about expats joining the T7 . I ve seen many of them during their observation flight as well as during normal ops and i totally understand why Saudia keeps bringing expats .anywhere away from the Domestic poolside is a nightmare for them

[asianeagle]

One way is to follow Korean's or Cathay's rostering but we know that won't happen.

I can't speak for Korean but, I can most definitely speak for Cathay....

You NEVER want to have a Cathay rostering system. It is a chaotic, short term planned, under crewed and over interpreted (to suit the company) shambolic system in flagrant disregard of the AFTL's.

Be careful what you wish for...:sad:

Thats why I'm perusing this thread:ok:

[King on a Wing]

Just a thought.
Where would they put up current new hire captains in that case.
Or let me rephrase that. Where are they currently putting up new hire captains?

[Chocks Away]

Thanks Asianeagle, sorry I was referring to their outstations and time off down route.

[mutt]

Or let me rephrase that. Where are they currently putting up new hire captains? Hotels in Jeddah.

[Keep walking]

Mutt,do you know something about A330 fleet???life style,hours per month,salary and etc,etc,etc...???thanks.:ok:

[dieana]

hi there, I was wondering about family life in Saudi. Any one living with your wife and a daughter? what about their life there? many restrictions? Can they drive a car?


Thanks a lot

[c560xl]

Any idea y they had delayed the joining date for some of us on A330

[Flying738ng]

Hello everyone,

I recently arrived in Jeddah, i have been seeing a lot of delays for fo ground classes specially on the 777 fleet. Many have been waiting for 2-3 months to start ground classes, since their induction, Promting them retun to their home country and come back to start now.
How much delay should I expect, or have the things started moving fast now ..????

[alloha]

"hi there, I was wondering about family life in Saudi. Any one living with your wife and a daughter? what about their life there? many restrictions? Can they drive a car?"

Life in KSA is is an endless party. You should know that

Welcome to planet earth stranger.
Man are you kidding us? Where do you live? In a place without TV internet etc etc. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[BDD]

Dieana,

I don't work for Saudia, but I know that women can't drive. Yet!! I read something a few months ago that they were working on it. Don't know the
outcome. My sister lived in the Kingdom years ago. She would dress up
like a man and drive around.

Alloha, thake a chill pill bro, or get out of the kingdom for a bit.

BDD

[tomuchwork]

Well, if you never have been in Saudi then it is most likely hard for some people to get the "idea" how is living in this place.

I did my good share of ME living, hated it. And it was even not in Saudi which is already at least the next level.

I did a lot of nightstops in this lovely country(and was always very happy to leave, thanks god(alah?) usually not more then max 6-7 days there.

For me it is the entire "experience", from arrival till departure which makes it so good. Often you get threathed like they are gods(or whatever) present to me that I may stay there. Same at departure when you get your passports back and can finally leave. Restrictions? Yes, tons of it. Which? Flight attendants are threathed like sh.. in some hotels, had to come even for bf in the ninja dress(seriously, they got send back to their rooms to return in proper dress which was the ninja dress).Even our(the pilots) intervention was useless. To be fair, this does not happen in all the hotels. Women are not allowed in the gym(some exceptions, but not many), for sure they cannot drive. The driving is under evaluation as the Saudis are now getting more and more critizied for this behavior. Will change soon, so 50 years I guess ;-) .

I only would consider this place on a commuting contract, not more then 14/14, everything else most likely drives you nuts if you prefer some kind of freedom.

Would never put my family in this place.

[corsair44]

Hi guys,
I applied almost 2 months ago for A320 DEC interview . I still don't have any news about that (no date). Do you know how much (average) you have to wait between the day you sent the application form and the interview ?

;)

Btw, I read some bad things about medical check in Cairo. I just wanted to have a latest experience about that, if one of you guys has done it a short time ago...

Thanks for every thing.:)

[fly77W]

Gentlemen,

My previous interview with Saudia got rescheduled.

Finally going at the end of the month so any input will be very much appreciated.

ac100, you mentioned about you attending in Feb. any feedback please.

Thank you,

fly77W

[corsair44]

Fly77w,

Could you please tell me when did you send your application form ?

thanks.

By the way, expect also some delays during training due to lack of flight instructors if you applied for airbus... I don't know about boeing fleet :)

[kungfu panda]

I read in Arab News today that as SAUDIZATION is to be accelerated that all foreign mobile phone communcations employees in every department would be replaced with Saudi's by September. 50% Saudization this month then 100% in September.


How long until the governments axe fall's on foreign employees at Saudia?

[mutt]

How long until the governments axe fall's on foreign employees at Saudia? They have done it before, all expat FO's were fired when Saudi nationals with 250 hours complained to the King that Saudia wouldn't hire them.

[rdr]

Get used to the 2 bucket theory as an expat, and keep your ear close to the ground. It happens in all airlines.

[alloha]

Well soon enough SVA will have close to 100plus expat FO's. Hard to axe them all at the same time. still company has the upper hand as it may choose not to renew the contract after 3 years .but honestly now i cant imagine lots of expats on the T7 that they will choose to stay after 3 years instead of looking for a place with a faster command upgrade on a wide body aircraft instead of the A 320

[alkor]

hi all,

Is there any chance of commuting or part time job?

Cheers,
a

[mutt]

NO

..........

[mutt]

Story is that they have imposed a no-extension rule for first officers, so they will finish at 58.2 Gregorian years and not 65 like the Captains.

[atila_101]

Thats right Mutt. Just bumped into a victim of this rule. BTW this rule is applicable to both locals and foreigners.

[7oodaz]

anybody heard if i can change my type from the A330 to B777 ? im a F/O

[alloha]

You have more luck if you try to change your sex. NOT A SINGLE CHANCE. FORGET IT!

[Keep walking]

KKKKKKKKK...

[Unavailable]

Got news from some locals that there is some fuss about a possible SV ban over EU's space because of FTLs violations or something.
Any truth to that?

[atila_101]

Not likely.

[indianace]

guys...any info on why so many people have been send back/failed or voluntarily decided to leave saudia?
recently i heard 3 serbians and more than 10 malaysians failed...whats the area of failure and why?
about accommodation..is it true that to get a proper house..the waiting period is almost 1 year?

[alloha]

@indianace. 1st reason is attitude ,even if you don't cope 100% with a very demanding training the proper attitude may save your ... :). It works both ways. Even if you cope 110% with the training the wrong attitude can get you a one way ticket back home. Keep in mind that at that time SV doesn't need desperately pilots especially on the T7. An average line for April is around 70 hours (pay credit at around 78-80) for the FO's and 73-74 for captains. Command upgrades were postponed until June
6-10 773 are on the way until the end of the year.on December the first four 772 will be faced out (not necessarily based on day of arrival).
Housing: literally SV city has no more available houses. The waiting list is something like 140 people,maybe more. All of them stay in 3 different hotels.company is looking for available houses in a compound north of the airport

[indianace]

thanks for the indo aloha...

[777AV8R]

Hmmm...Madinah?

[c560xl]

any news from the gents staring on 27th of march.
m still waiting

[7oodaz]

c560xl
i'm Here, arriving jeddah on the 27th of march, as a FO A330
they sent me the ticket and hotel accommodation , pm me

[lafasanella]

Anyone will join next 3rd April?

[Chocks Away]

"Got news from some locals that there is some fuss about a possible SV ban over EU's space because of FTLs violations or something. "

Unavailable, I heard that also this week.
I'm told it's to do with the continual push-back/delay in instigating a new FMS (FAA Part 117) (http://far117understanding.com/far-117-flight-and-duty-time-limitations-and-rest-requirements-flightcrew-members/).

Happy landings:ok:

[atila_101]

EASA is full of ****. EASA should be more worried about tackling down P2F schemes in Europe..... but i have heard that rumor too.

[mutt]

Are they applying the bond to people who are already rated in the specific aircraft?

[7oodaz]

@mutt no, ive friends who are already type rated on the A330 and they did not apply bond to them

[mutt]

9 B777 training failures in literally two days, whats going on? Especially as most appear to be in recurrent?

[CI54]

Failure during recurrent? I thought recurrent is no jeopardy...

[mutt]

I thought recurrent is no jeopardy... so did they :):)

[CI54]

so did they :):)

Misunderstanding of the worst kind 😱😨😰...

[Flyboy_SG]

So how many guys opted for RUH base and whats the deal with it ?

[Flyboy_SG]

Mutt you seem to be the happiest one about the failures.
From what I hear it's all ego tussle and repercussions of previous incidents.

[VAMY]

Come on guys don't piss about! Any airline pilot who's been in the business long enough knows that you are only as good as your last sim check.

It's very naive to have the attitude that a recurrent is a formality or anything like non jeopardy.

[VAMY]

Flyboy SG,

No RUH base as yet.

It was only considered as a planning exercise.

Besides all is under review at the moment by outside consultants as well as all strongly under review as part of the recently introduced "5 Year Transformation Program".

I wouldn't hold my breath for a RUH base anytime soon if I were you-unless you want to work for NAS AIR that is.

[mutt]

I wouldn't hold my breath for a RUH base anytime soon Have a look out as you are on finals to 33L in the last couple of miles, they are in the process of building the housing compound.

With over 100,000 seats used each year between the two cities to deadhead crew, the concept certainly makes sense.

[buswind]

Flyboy SG,

No RUH base as yet.

It was only considered as a planning exercise.

Besides all is under review at the moment by outside consultants as well as all strongly under review as part of the recently introduced "5 Year Transformation Program".

I wouldn't hold my breath for a RUH base anytime soon if I were you-unless you want to work for NAS AIR that is.
Just been awarded Ruh base!

[buswind]

Been awarded Ruh base, heard rumors before that they will give 10 days consecutively during the month! True?

[Flyboy_SG]

Yeah, I'm Wondering the same.

[buswind]

Yeah, I'm Wondering the same.

How is the atmosphere in Saudia and the training? Not sure if I should join !

[atila_101]

Been on the line since September. Flying is ok, most of the old timers don't bother you and let you fly pretty much the way you want, don't expect to do many landings though, specially on the long haul flights.

Training is the worst. You can spend up to one year on training and there is no assurance that you would make it until the very last minute.

Biggest issue now for the new guys is housing, not enough houses or even apartments. Be given an hotel outside the compound God knows how long.

Flying hours right now is rather low, too many pilots, not enough routes and new planes coming this way. Not to mention the implementation of GACA 117 next month.... will be interesting.

[Unavailable]

Looks like there a new baby LCC! FlyAdeal as part of Saudia. Planning to have a fleet of a320neo.
Base should be in Dammam but i'm not sure!

[mutt]

JEDDAH: Saudi Arabian Airlines (Saudia) announced the establishment of a new airline company to provide low cost air transport, according to the Saudi Press Agency. The new company will be called Flyadeel.
The low-cost carrier will begin operations from the middle of next year, Saudia chief Saleh Al-Jasser said.
It will operate independently of its parent firm, Jasser was quoted as saying by SPA at a ceremony on Sunday.
In December, Al-Jasser said the airliner's ticket prices are still the lowest despite the SR30 increase in airfares.
Back in June 2015, at the Paris Air Show, Saudia ordered 50 passenger planes from Airbus with a total catalogue value of some $8.0 billion.

Will be interesting to see if the 50 aircraft are going to SVA or split, will also be interesting to see where they find pilots especially as they won't be able to offer the same package as SVA.

Considering that the guy in charge of the 2020 transformation came from Al-Maha, SAMA, Cebu Pacific, it stands to reason that they are going down the LCC road.

[ExDubai]

A Dammam base isn't that bad and they will get their pilots from the european LCC. For sure the investors of Saudigulf are more then pleased with this announcement.

[Flyboy_SG]

I second Atila 101. That's the exact scenario now. Don't expect to Get released before Before a year. Housing is a big issue. Training on the bus is a bit less slower !

[alloha]

Things are not going well on the 777 fleet. With the implementation of 117 from May the credit hours for the FO's are down by 15% and thats not all. No commander upgrades from the 777 FO this year. Only from 330 and 747. Right now there 330 FO's on the T7 with more than 50 in training. Soon enough less hours and less money are coming. Rumors for a drafted letter from local 777 captains and FO's ,asking for a meeting with the management . Captains mostly complaining for rest issues. No one made any case studying on the 117 before applying it to the roster.

[mamamia]

The Far117 implementation with no study is causing a lot of problem specially out of Riyadh regarding taking fo from A330 for command that sad as they less senior than t777 but couple of months ago the T777 fo where making over 55000 riyal so what happened

[Flyboy_SG]

Credit hours down because of short layovers ?

[mutt]

The Far117 implementation with no study Actually it was studied a couple of years ago, hence the delay in implementing it.

[alloha]

Mutt credit hours have nothing to do with lay overs. Credit hours are the deadheading hours plus days on STBY that you dont fly plus 10% of your actual block hours. Of cource per diem out of lay over are going down since you have less pairings

[mamamia]

Mutt I don't agree with you on the Far 117 if there was a study years ago it should have been done better any way you are wrong too with the layover credit read the GOM

[mutt]

Yikes, I'm having a bad day.... sorry I guess we have too many GOM's/OM's.

As for the 117 study, it was done under VP HA, so thats a few years ago.

[Hakeem]

Gud day fellow aviators,

Can some one please confirm if the recruitment for FO is put on hold or they still recruiting. I have applied like 4 months back and my status still says active. Nothing changed on status since then.

Can some please kind enough to help me get through this.

Thanks a ton

[Flyboy_SG]

No FO recruitment till the end of the year.

[Hakeem]

Thanks flyboy for the heads up.

Happy landing.