Saudia

[zerograv]

Check

Thanks for your explanation Mutt :ok:

[adwa0001]

Hi Mutt,
Is it required for fo 777 to have atpl ?
Or cpl with time on 320 is enough?
I received the offering contract stated that i need to show atp faa or icao atpl. Its not even stated on their website recruitment.

Thanks
Adwa0001

[mutt]

Is it required for fo 777 to have atpl ? Strange as i thought that the local authorities would only give you a CPL based on your hired position rather than your actual license.

First thing that you will be doing is ground school for the GACA written exam.

Anyway, cant your unfreeze a EASA ATP with an OPC? (I'm assuming your location means you have a EASA license)

[Flyingbusy]

Hi,

Does somebody know about Written Gaca content ? How many questions ? Which score to pass ? I heard that it is the same as FAA (80 questions, 70 percents).
I have a JAA licence and the rules and laws are quite different from FAA.
I wonder if we could find US rules questions during the test, and if Gaca uses the same rules as Faa or has its own.

[mutt]

Flyingbusy, answer to you question will be different today compared to tomorrow, dont worry about it as they give you a week supervised study.

[alloha]

CPL or ATPL exams should be the least of your concerns (FYI info are copy paste 100% from the GLEIM books ,so is the computer study you will have,GACA test is exactly the same with FAA with 100 Qs,pass rate is 70% but SV will not accept if its not above 80%, you will have a second shot if your score is below 70 ,so far all of the guys score easily more than 90%).You have to worry about the SV pre oral exam on your TR :uhoh: .Then is the the GACA oral exam on your TR :uhoh:.Then is the SV check ride in the sim before the GACA check ride in the sim:uhoh:.Naturally the same goes for line training as well (34 sectors for CPT 22 for FO):ugh::ugh::ugh:.You are still worrying about the CPL or ATPL exam ?:eek:

PS1. First Direct entry FOs on the WB fleet started last July. Since then the numbers are steadily increasing . Since Jan 2015 more than 20 FOs have joined the company.Most of them are coming from Egypt Air as they can keep their seniority for 4-5 years. Keep in mind that SV plans for 80-90 local cadets this year (same with 2014 )

PS2 Last week's assessment in Cairo was very successful as of the 14 who took the written test 13 of them got a job offer after the interview.

[a340bcn]

In terms of days off and commuting: What is the best fleet for an FO?
After a lot of time in Airbus , is changing to Boeing a good idea or a high risk chance in Saudia?

[polax52]

In terms of days off and commuting: What is the best fleet for an FO?
After a lot of time in Airbus , is changing to Boeing a good idea or a high risk chance in Saudia?

You need to understand that Saudia does not offer a commuting contract. Some people do try to commute but its not easy, you're only going to get 2-3 days at home for each commute. The A320 is very difficult. The 777 is probably the best option because there is less shorthaul on that fleet than the A330 but on the 330 you fly fewer hours. In any case when they hire you there is no choice offered, you take or leave what you're given.

[alloha]

All FO's are assigned to the WB fleet (except the 747).Even some FOs from the 320 now go to the T7 as the company is not expecting any new 330. All CPTs without WB experience are assigned to the 320 (and it makes sense as there are Saudi CPTs with 8-9 years experience on the 320 without transition to the WB). Commuting is the same regardless of fleet. a string of 5 days OFF/month and that's all.30 days of leave (can not be allocated to blocks of less than 15 plus another 10 days off in the 320 and 15 in the T7)

[polax52]

You will receive accommodation appropriate for your family in Saudia city. Your kids education in Jeddah is subsidised and for all effective purposes Jeddah is where you'll live. You may be able to get back to your own country for a few days each month but please don't consider this to be commuting. Korean offer a real commuting contract.

[mutt]

15 in the T7 Whats this for? The original 10 days off were in replacement for the national Eid Holidays, why does the 777 get 15 days?

[Flyingbusy]

Now, I am worrying for all of these ! joke !
Anyway, one only thing : work, work, work !
I imagine that it is not easy, but a lot of guys passed all the steps and are, now, happy to fly for SV ! And I heard SV staff is friendly and highly professionnal.

[a340bcn]

Thaks a lot for the answers. Is it possible to make changes and make a block of 4 days off in a month (appart from the 5 days in the contract).
Right now most of the FOs are going to the 777 but there are some assigned to the 330. I heard that the training is not thought for making an easy transition from one type to another, and that is a concern. Everybody loves the T7, and if life will be better there OK. But if it is going to be the same, I could ask for a change and hope for the best.
Thanks a lot guys, I heard good things about Saudia, and for your attitude, they seem to be right ;)

[mutt]

Is it possible to make changes and make a block of 4 days off in a month (appart from the 5 days in the contract) So you end up with 9 days off in a ROW.... The answer is NO.

Disclaimer. Im sure that some people manage to do this every couple of months or so, but to base your joining decision on the fact that this option is available is a bad idea.

[a340bcn]

Thx for the info. C u there.

[polax52]

Warning issued today through Reuters:

"Potential mall terror attack" within the Kingdom.

[Mach Speed]

Does anyone know the results or have an official email response yet from the assessments that were initiated on April 12 in Cairo? Thanks.

[metro301]

Warning issued today through Reuters:

"Potential mall terror attack" within the Kingdom.


There is the "potential" for this to happen in any mall in the world. An expat teacher was attacked and killed in a mall last December for ideological reasons. The sad fact is, malls are soft targets.

[mutt]

An expat teacher was attacked and killed in a mall last December for ideological reasons. The sad fact is, malls are soft targets. Was that in Saudi or the UAE?

[Chocks Away]

Yes mutt it was in the UAE -Abu Dhabi Reem Island in fact.

Reem Island murder accused sent for psychological tests - Culture & Society - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com//reem-island-murder-accused-sent-for-psychological-tests-590158.html)

[alloha]

Effective from today no more ATPL and CPL exams for new joiners. GACA will accept ICAO atpls even for FO with more than 2500 hours

[LNAV VNAV -]

Effective from today no more ATPL and CPL exams for new joiners. GACA will accept ICAO atpls even for FO with more than 2500 hours

Five days ago I bought the Gleim online course AND the book for a total of €220. 😠😠

[zerograv]

Alloha,

The 2500 are Total hours or Jet hours? Wondering if you could clarify?

Many thanks :ok:

[mutt]

Five days ago I bought the Gleim online course AND the book for a total of €220. 😠😠 Look on the bright side, that decision has just taken two boring weeks off your training :):)

Now sell the books to someone who needs to study for the interview :)

[alloha]

@LNAV-VNAV. 220 pounds? It is made of gold? I bought it last year around 70$ if i recall correctly. And in jeddah you can buy the hard copy for 150 SAR

[alloha]

no idea. I was the last one who took the exam with my classmates and all of us had from 4500h jet time. Also all the guys who got the good news have more than 4000 jet time so i cant give u an answer. The rumours for the termination of the cpl exam was flying for more than 2 months as i ve been told. The termination of atpl exams for captains was a sudden decision

[LNAV VNAV -]

@LNAV-VNAV. 220 pounds? It is made of gold? I bought it last year around 70$ if i recall correctly. And in jeddah you can buy the hard copy for 150 SAR

220 dollars. 39 for the book plus fedex shipping + tax and another some 120 dollars for the online course. Anyway like Mutt says I will look at the bright sight of it! ☺

[zerograv]

Thanks Alloha :ok:

[polax52]

Hello guys, im new in this forum, I received a mail saying Saudia is recruiting pilots for the 747, anybody knows how likely is it for an FO to get this position? Also, how long is it taking them to answer for a new applicant?

I wonder about my family (wife and daughter) having a nice time in the homebase, anybody knows how smooth is it for a westernized family?

Im an FO 6200 total time, 4300 on 767 and 1100 on 737 efis.

Thank you guys! good luck to you all!

With those hours; they would be interested in you for 777 or shortly the 787.

Regarding the lifestyle, I think you need to look at Jeddah, the accommodation and schools for yourself to decide if this is the life you want for your family. Understand, as I've said before, this isn't a commuting job, so plan to move your family here.

The 747 is no longer an option, the passenger aircraft will be phased out by early next year.

[Mach Speed]

FlyingKratos,

Polax is right. If you submit an app you should get a response fairly soon. How smooth is it? It all depends upon how "westernized" you perceive yourself to be, and how you adapt to other people's values and culture. KSA is probably the most "conservative" of all the countries in the ME in terms of values, but is significantly advanced in terms of economic progress. There's a ton of info in the forums. Good luck.

[mutt]

recruiting pilots for the 747 I doubt it, as polax52 has stated, the 744 will be phased out shortly, and I wouldnt be surprised if the -8's are given to AAI to operate.

But that wouldnt stop you from applying for the 777.

As for the 787, will they recruit outside? Or as the new toy, will it be kept internal for A320 upgrades?

[Chocks Away]

Yes interesting moves on the chess board currently, mutt.
Two moves I have heard "around the water bubbler" are;
-AAI's days (& other chtrs) are numbered as they wish to bring all Saudia tail operations in house to control the brand better. This will take some time as the numbers evolved are huge, especially with the season soon to begin.
-immediate flow of crew is to 777 growth mostly but the intention is to keep crew "on type" for ease of training in the future. I guess this means watch out for some new Airbus toys, in this new bulk order of aircrafts to come. 787 staying in house for now. 20 to come now, :-)
(PS I am aware of the type crossover asked, when changing to the left seat but there simply may not be available training slots to do this in the future. It's definitely smarter to stay "on type" & and not lose experience gained, definitely more efficient and what most other airlines do... )

[Mach Speed]

I was told by a SV captain that they plan to use existing SV E170 crew to move them over to the 787, as they phase in the 787s and phase out the E170s. However, there is the issue of needing seasoned international captains for the 787s, and I'm not sure how they plan to address that. The common type rating between the T7 and the 787 along with the "11-day" differences course make it logical to get at least an initial set of experienced T7 SV captains qualified on the 787 as TREs, TRIs, etc.

I agree about SV trying to keep it all in-house to better control therir brand, and that leaves AAI out of the picture for now. The bigger problem for SV is to attract enough qualified FDC to account for all of its expansion and retirements.

[polax52]

The 744 will be phased out by April 2016 and all IP's have been given the option to bid for the 787. Everybody else have 2 options: 1. B748 Cargo 2. B777.


I don't agree about bringing all operation in-house, this sounds like one of a multitude of rumours. There are too many vested interests in the wet lease operation for this to be a significant option. In addition to that AAI provide reliable substitute aircraft which are currently required on a daily basis. If it is a plan then that is all it will ever be.

[mutt]

There is a lot of agency fees being paid for the leased aircraft, so it wont suit all parties to bring that flying in house. At the same time, where on earth are they going to find the crews for another 35 aircraft.

I don't see the 8F as an option for the 744 crews, I don't believe that it will be operated by the mainline next year.

[papsifo]

hi guys

I saw the requirement for wide body first officer.

I have some boeing 737 efis time and some NG time

My question is does boeing 737 efis time qualify towards the requirement of 1500 glas cockpit time.

[alloha]

@papsifo. Yes it does. I had only 737 EFIS hours (5.500) and i had no problem at all. If you read carefully the requirements you will see that they do accept 737 Efis as well

[metro301]

In the english paper today they announced SVA will purchase and additional 100 aircraft to increase and modernize the fleet. No specifics other than that.....

As to placing the E70 fleet pilots direct onto the 787...... Not a chance..... perhaps the few senior expats with wide body experience. There is not a snowballs chance in the desert for a one to one swap for remaining crew. The E70 is a training airplane for them, the Capt's generally are fresh out of the right seat and don't even have the published mins for the 320, the Fo's are right out of C-172's. It will go wide body Capt's as initial cadre and perhaps down the A320 list if they get desperate. Training costs mean nothing to SVA. Just my humble opinion. E70 will transition to A320 except for senior expats. 787 initial cadre will be wide body and senior A320 Capts......

[alloha]

@Metro 301. Papers Are not alaways in touch with real world. Some assumptions ,even though in aviation assumptions must be avoided.

lets say that SVA wants to add 50 aircrafts to its fleet.

1) HR can not facilitate the amount of pilots required to operate these aircarfts.they work very hard but its quite unrealistic to hire more than 250 pilots per year(minus the attrition during training)

2) lets skip #1 and assume that SVA by a miraculous way hires 500 pilots per year. Those people will wait for ever for the GACA oral exam plus the GACA check ride in the sim plus the GACA check ride in LT(captains only). Right now a large number of mainly T7 crews are on a stby pool for the oral exams because GACA has a very limited capacity.guys left for Sim abroad without having take the exams and without having a set date after their return.and 2 new classes start every month!!

3) all in all SVA will face out The first B 777 (replacing them with 787 and 777) who joined the fleet 17 years ago and the E170 and replace them most propably with A318-319. And thats the reason they start looking for expat FOs (so far all expat FOs ) were invited only for the WB. 100 new aircrafts is certainly a number beyond company's capacity and mostly because of the structure of training which is required by GACA

[mutt]

100 new aircrafts is certainly a number beyond company's capacity and mostly because of the structure of training which is required by GACA This talk has gone on for a few years, the company requested the aircraft from the Government and are awaiting approval, as you said the original 777-200's were delivered starting on the 25Dec1997, there are 22 of them and most of the A320's are leased, so they can easily change 50 aircraft without needing to hire any crew.
I doubt that the E170 needs to be replaced by a 90 seater, economically the 320 would suit as the domestic loads are high with an ever growing population.
As for PSAA, well what can I say :):):)

[polax52]

This talk has gone on for a few years, the company requested the aircraft from the Government and are awaiting approval, as you said the original 777-200's were delivered starting on the 25Dec1997, there are 22 of them and most of the A320's are leased, so they can easily change 50 aircraft without needing to hire any crew.
I doubt that the E170 needs to be replaced by a 90 seater, economically the 320 would suit as the domestic loads are high with an ever growing population.
As for PSAA, well what can I say :):):)

Having said all that; Saudia are planning to double in size in the the next 5 years both in terms of fleet size and in terms of passengers per year. Whether it is doable or not remains to be seen, they will certainly throw a lot of money at it. Approval from the government is not only in place but it is required by the government.

The newspaper article refers to the delivery of 100 new aircraft of which only 12 have been delivered to date.

[metro301]

The newspaper article refers to the delivery of 100 new aircraft of which only 12 have been delivered to date.

Polax, double check the article - The article referred to the original 100 aircraft orders that were made over 5 years ago. 12 of those aircraft have yet to be delivered (8 X 787 + some 777F or 300's). That old order from the past included the 55- 320/321's the 330's and the 777-300's.

It went to say that this is an entirely new authorization for an additional 100 aircraft. Some aircraft will certainly phase out the older 777-200, 747-400 and possibly the E70's. It has been said the 787 order will increase to 20+. The 330 fleet will also increase. They will not appear tomorrow, this is a 5 year plan, yes they will be stretched even further for cockpit crews. So after replacements, guess at say 50-60ish new aircraft?

The exact same stuff was said 5 years ago with the original 5 year plan, the aircraft did arrive. Can' see it being any different this time around. Totally agree with you on the processing times for pilots. It will be a stretch but they were able to piece things together for the last 5 years.

[TriStrPlt]

Anyone scheduled for May 11th screening?


KF

[727Man]

Anyone else had the same email? click on the link and nothing happens, have had the email twice. Anyone have a proper link? From [email protected].

In reference to your application for a pilot position in SAUDIA,

Kindly fill the information sheet attached in the link below and send it back to us to proceed your application.



· Information Sheet FDC Application From (follow link to download)





Regards,

[TriStrPlt]

Try This one:


If you haven’t already completed an FDC form, kindly complete FDC Application From (https://copy.com/C0gmwZE69BlYgqEs) (follow link to download). This is mandatory to attend assessments.

[727Man]

Thanks TristrPlt, that is the same link They sent me, goes to a site called copy.com and keeps spinning round and round nothing happens.

I have replied to their email twice with no reply back??:ugh:

Does it need to be a windows PC as i am on a Mac?

[corsair44]

Hi guys

Before applying for capt 320 job in Saudia, I'd like to get some informations about A320 haul.

Could you tell me what kind of flights, you make on 320( only short haul flights or medium haul flights) as I heard there was a lot of domestic 1h flights) ?

how many flights a day maximum ?

Average number of flights hours you make by month ?

Thanks a lot for your help.

[Flyboy_SG]

Yes 727Man, it doesn't work on iMac. Try it on widowsPC.



Did anyone attend the screening recently ? Do they still have ATPL, math and physics aptitude tests ?


Thanks

[alloha]

@corsair44 average 75-80 hours per month. Apart from domestic routes ( and flights in the peninsula) there are some European destinations (FRA GVA IST) and also some destinations in Africa and India. Although u will be based in JED lots of 3-4 days trip with overnights in Dammam Riyadh etc. block of 5 days of per month .

[corsair44]

Thanks a lot alloha

Do you live in Saudia compound in Jeddah ? What does live look like down there ? Do you have things to do when you don't work ? ( sports ?)

When did you join Saudia ?

[Saudia_Expat]

This is my first posting on your site. I've been a Saudia pilot for several years so I can provide some real answers.

All the non-saudi pilot live on a compound called Saudi City. Most of the people here are Lebonese, Bangladesh or Indian. The compound is not clean like you would see in Dubia, but is livable. The water often does not work well in the day time, but the electricity is always on so the A/C works all the time.

There is a lot of flying, but also a lot of schedule changes. You bid from an very old system of pre-printed lines (not a modern system of preferencial bidding). Most of the lines have 5 days off, but you finish flying late before the first day, and are always scheduled very early the day following so if you commute anywhere, you will only have 3 days off. If you're very lucky you can beg for an extra day, but they will keep you in suspense until the last minute, so it's quite frustrating.

The schedulers do this intentionally. They feel a need to control everyone and are jealous that pilots can come and go from Saudi Arabia, while they are stuck in an office.

With a few exceptions, the career of a new non-saudi pilot is from months to a few short years. It doesn't take a long time until one grows tired of the scheduling nonsense.

Aside from the scheduling problem the company is generally nice to work for. Everybody at least pretends to be friendly and genuine, so it's an easy place to work.

if anyone wants specific answers, just post and I'll do my best to answer.

[Saudia_Expat]

The tests are very easy. If you possess a general high school education, common sense and good general aviation knowledge, you'll pass with flying colors.

[Saudia_Expat]

There are no differences courses at Saudia. Training for a type-rated pilot joining the company, or a pilot transitioning from one fleet to another can last from 4 months, to over a year.

[Flyingbusy]

Hello Saudia Expat,
Thank you for the explanations. Which aircraft do you fly ? What about the long haul roster compared with short/medium ? It is said that we could expect more off days in a row on 777/330.
What about CRM ?
Is everything available in the compound, like supermarket.. ? Or do we need to go outside ? How do you feel going outside the compound ?
Many thanks

[Romasik]

This is my first posting on your site. I've been a Saudia pilot for several years so I can provide some real answers.

All the non-saudi pilot live on a compound called Saudi City. Most of the people here are Lebonese, Bangladesh or Indian. The compound is not clean like you would see in Dubia, but is livable. The water often does not work well in the day time, but the electricity is always on so the A/C works all the time.

There is a lot of flying, but also a lot of schedule changes. You bid from an very old system of pre-printed lines (not a modern system of preferencial bidding). Most of the lines have 5 days off, but you finish flying late before the first day, and are always scheduled very early the day following so if you commute anywhere, you will only have 3 days off. If you're very lucky you can beg for an extra day, but they will keep you in suspense until the last minute, so it's quite frustrating.

The schedulers do this intentionally. They feel a need to control everyone and are jealous that pilots can come and go from Saudi Arabia, while they are stuck in an office.

With a few exceptions, the career of a new non-saudi pilot is from months to a few short years. It doesn't take a long time until one grows tired of the scheduling nonsense.

Aside from the scheduling problem the company is generally nice to work for. Everybody at least pretends to be friendly and genuine, so it's an easy place to work.

if anyone wants specific answers, just post and I'll do my best to answer.
I've been around for 16 years and have no intentions to start all over again:)

Most of the people stay here until they are forced to leave by age or personal reasons. With few exceptions:). As time passes by it's more and more difficult to leave. Increasing salary, benefits, school for kids... Once you get used to this life it's easy.
And relations with planners entirely depend on you. Just respect them and you you will be treated accordingly. Withing scheduling limits, of course.
Scheduling problems is a part of a job description and compensated in the end of the month with SMS from the bank.:O

[Vmaxx]

What about commuting Roster ?
Is it really possible or not on B777 ?
Thanks

[Romasik]

It's 5 days in a row only. Whatever you make of it. Europe - 3 days at home. US/Canada - 2. Plus jet lag. No fun.
To make it back to back you need seniority. On 777 it will probably never happen to new hires.

[alloha]

Next week the company will present the 5 year plan in a press conference.that will be interesting. I wish i could attend but the keep me busy all the time.:hmm:will be front page next day on the newspapers without any doubt.

[polax52]

If it's not clear yet please read my text "IT IS NOT A COMMUTING OR COMMUTABLE CONTRACT".

If you understand that and are happy to live in Jeddah then it's a good contract.

[Old Boeing Driver]

I lived in the very first block to open in Saudia City. That was about March of 1977. There were no gates on any entrance. No telephones either. A TWA mechanic wired the place for video and ran a cable network using betmax machines for years.

Those blocks have been demolished, but Google Maps still show that the rest has not changed much.

They used the same type paper bid/line schedule systems, but most lines had 8 days off.

They would always schedule a 1 day trip at the end or beginning of a line if your days off were next to the beginning or the end of a month. Lost of sick call ins from the locals for those lines.

The place was decent back then.

[mutt]

Next week the company will present the 5 year plan in a press conference.that will be interesting Its always fun listening to what a new consultancy company has to offer, this time it appears to be the Boston Consultancy Company!

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Saudia will double its fleet in 5 years.

More competition to the ME3

Saudi national carrier to double fleet: media (http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-national-carrier-double-fleet-media-210512225.html;_ylt=A0SO8yjnEltVYQIAEO1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2 lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--)

[mutt]

And who is going to fly them?

Lets say an average of 5 sets of crew per aircraft (as types unknown), 80 aircraft means 800 crews or 160 new hires a year, thats not including retirements/resignations, so about 200 a year.

Should be interesting:).

[RAM777]

What are the prospects of command in Saudia?? I m currently flying a 777 with aproximately 6000 total flying hours and 700 on type.

[alloha]

@RAM777. 10-12 years best case scenario and your command will be on the A320

[alloha]

And who is going to fly them?

Lets say an average of 5 sets of crew per aircraft (as types unknown), 80 aircraft means 800 crews or 160 new hires a year, thats not including retirements/resignations, so about 200 a year.

Should be interesting.


5 sets is not achievable especially on the T7. Ppl from the HR are talking for minimum 350 pilots/year for the next 5 years plus the local cadets. Next month the PSAA will receive a second B777 ftd from AZ because they are expecting more than 35 expats per month from September . Last week they had 48 candidates on the Cairo assessment and again another 48 next week. Even EK with the most efficient HR department can handle 32 per week. In addition only some details are yet to be confirmed so that SVA will secure slots for the B777 in Air France sims in Paris ,because CAI DXB and JED are not enough. I think the press conference next week will be quite interesting

[polax52]

Unless a lot changes; it is absolutely not achievable. Currently the Academy can not take a throughput of more than 150 new hires per year. Even using the training capacity of other companies to meet t7 requirements, it's not that those companies don't need their own training capacity in the coming years. Add to that; currently the HR department is as efficient as Greek government. There is no way they can cope with 48 interviews per month, and they can not get 48 GACA qualified people to each interview in any case. People who are that qualified have a lot of options.

Even if they did manage to get the required number of candidates into the training center the attrition rate is still high. People decide Jeddah is not for them. Lifestyle for A320 new hire Captains is not particularly good. GACA are not going to lower their standards.

Let's say 800-1000 Pilots in 5 years would be an absolutely remarkable achievement.

[OSDELATROPO]

Hi I would appreciate if a 777 Capt could PM me his feed back and feelings about Saudi Arabian as I might apply later this year.

Many Thanks

[alloha]

@polax52. They had 48 the previous week and they will have 48 next week as well. The training centers that they get are not for free. And this is why they look for extra slots and locations. The only real problem (and i have already mentioned it) is the GACA examiners.but guess what!! Gaca asked from all the senior instructors in the PSAA to submit their resumes . I got my doupts that they will meet the objective target but i am pretty sure that they will try as much as possible.

[rdr]

The problem can be simply resolved by creating a level of Senior Instructors who automatically become GACA examiners when appointed as such by the airline.
i.e. they train, check, and licence on behalf of the company, and GACA.

[touchscreen]

I have been here 15 months and on line since last October as 777 captain. I can answer your questions but warn you I am biased. I like it here. Worked in USA, Japan, India and China and this is by far the best. Family is in the states because the trading system is great here.

[touchscreen]

I disagree with Mutt. If you don't mind guaranteed salary you can trade you trips or give them away down to the guarantee, 78 hours. My sim partner manages 9 days each month in London by trip trades or giving up trips. Can be done until you get the taste of overtime in a paycheck. Then you will have your family meet you on RONs or move here.

[mutt]

I disagree with Mutt Nice to see others giving opinions :):)

Considering that people use this site to form an opinion about the company, would you say that "some people managed to make the system work", or "Saudia is a commuting contract"?

Hope you are enjoying life on the 777 :)

[North_Bedouin]

I'm in ground position in Saudia and can't say much about the rosters etc. However I would like to give my 5 cents with some main observations:
Pilots are most unhappy and whining staff in ANY airline. No offence, just statistics - check statistics of strikes and involved staff in major airlines.
Life and work in Saudia, Jeddah, KSA, ME,... anywhere is what you make of it. "Some people managed to make the system work" - this is true. It doesn't mean it will fly LIKE you want, but if you are good, it will fly the DIRECTION you want. It takes some time until you understand that brain-pinions here are rotating in different direction than yours.
mutt makes excellent notes about particular details in SV as an insider. Everyone is free to evaluate everything what is said and decide if this matches his lifestyle and expectations. I don't know many expats who left Saudia at their own decision though, (only one guy due to family issues).

[corsair44]

Hi saudia guys, as I'm interested to join Saudia as a 320 Cpt soon, considering the fleet expansion expected, could you tell me, according to you, how much time I will have to wait in that position before accessing to Wide Body left seat ?
Thanks guys

[Romasik]

It's either by seniority or by equipment phase out.
By seniority - minimum 16-17 years as of current situation.
By equipment phase out - never know. And you may just be transferred to another narrow body.
No good news:(

[mutt]

Presently they are hiring direct hire Captains and First Officers rather than moving FO's to larger equipment or upgrading them to Captains, admittedly they don't have an option as they need to increase the total number of flightcrew and they cant increase from cadet levels.

So bear in mind that there is no guarantee that even when your seniority number comes up, they may not move you!

[corsair44]

Ok guys, that's understood..
Is that the same for A330 ?
I mean A320 crews don't fly A330 also in Saudia, as some carriers use to permit that?
The A320/ A330 upgrade course is pretty short and easy, in order make crews fly both aircrafts ...
But perhaps Saudia didn't make that choice for other reasons ?

[alloha]

@Corsair44. No 320 only for you. They don't mix them as other companies do. If you dont have WB experience as a captain do not expect 330 or 777. There are local captains with 8-10 years on the 320 so it wouldn't be fair for them. It makes sense

[mutt]

But perhaps Saudia didn't make that choice for other reasons ? There are only about 100 A330 pilots and about 500 A320 pilots, as they are considered different categories they are on different pay scales. Bringing 500 pilots up to the higher pay scale defeats the economics of CCQ.

[polax52]

There are only about 100 A330 pilots and about 500 A320 pilots, as they are considered different categories they are on different pay scales. Bringing 500 pilots up to the higher pay scale defeats the economics of CCQ.

The funny thing is though; the A320 pilots make more money than anybody.

Pretty poor quality of life though on the 320.

[corsair44]

@Alloha
Of course it makes sense ...
I didn't know there was several pay scales in Saudia...That explains many things...


@polax52
By the way , why do you describe the 320's pilots life style to be so poor ?

[mutt]

style to be so poor ? Easy answer... Sahara Hotel :)

[alloha]

@corsair 44. The difference in pay scale is relatively small and the 320 skippers make it up by flying 20-25 hours more than the 330 captains. It would be cheaper for the company to spread the plus 75 hours which are heavily paid to flight crews who average 65 h per month. Also A different type means a different office with additional managerial positions plus the fact that GACA is not so flexible to allow common type operations. 787 will be a different fleet as well and not a joined with the T7 unlikely other companies.

[Flyingbusy]

Hi,
could somebody indicate the process, after being hired, concerning Rating course, GACA ATP, until line training?
Thanks

[alloha]

Indoctrination class, Crm ,CBT FTD plus an extra week ground school .company oral b4 the Sim With Gaca and company check in the Sim and Gaca oral (usually after the sim .Sim 14 sessions). Line training (34 sectors for captains 21 for FOs). Captains have Gaca check in the aircraft along with Company check. FOs only company. No more Atpl. Thats it. 5 months if everything runs smoothly . If everything sticks to the program do not expect not even 4-5 days of leave. It happened to some classes.other classes had gaps of 12-15 days.

[fireball_23]

Hi,

One quick question regarding the assessment in Cairo. I've read about the Maths/Physics tests. However, in the invitation for the interview, it is never mentioned, as they only speak about basic aviation knowledges/and aptitude aviation.
Is this something new or everybody received the same thing ?

Thanks a lot ;)

[Flyingbusy]

Thank you Alloha.
And, do you know if 777 FDC fly on both, pax/cargo ? Or only one sector ?
It must be a quite different life.

[alloha]

They will fly both as the B777F is not yet fully operational.its only one and they have back logged order for another 3

[mutt]

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/337719-ex-qr-f-o-jail-sri-lanka.html This is kinda interesting.... anyone want to guess at who it is?

[metro301]

:ooh: Just looked at the list............

[Sky Hooker]

First day I met this guy,something was doggy!
Someone stop this cheat before innocent souls are killed.
Should be locked up and stripped off all his credentials.
Old saying....cover up one lie will take you ages!

[Flyingbusy]

OK Alloha, thanks for all these details.
what is the medium flight time a month, on narrow and wide body ?
Salary calculation is not easy. Some guys say basic salary could be quickly increased by a factor of 2. And do you know the lay over duration on a long haul flight, LAX, JFK....or medium (CDG, LHR...) ?
Many tanks !

[polax52]

flyingbusy:


What you have heard is only part of the story. Your basic salary is relatively low. It is then very fleet dependent whether you improve significantly on the basic salary or not. The 777 and the A320 do well, but the guys on these fleets complain they work too hard with lots of minimum rest and few days off. The A330 is probably the worst where you work a lot but fly few hours. The embraer and 747- Don't expect much more than the basic salary. 777 layovers generally are minimum i.e. JFK- 24 hours or less, LAX- 48 hours (I think), LHR-24 hours.

[captainpluto]

If there is no scope for a 777 FO to be illegible for command for something like 10 yrs in sauida I guess one should try for either emirates or qatar as they offer more than saudi in terms of living conditions, command opportunity, quality of life, etc

[alloha]

@captainpluto. Well EK not anymore. With 6-8 years for command u can stay in SV for 3 years and then have a fast upgrade in other airlines.and of course its not only matter of salary but also matter of spending. The cost of living in Dubai or Doha is much higher than in JED . In SV u make more and you spend less. Way less to be precise

[mutt]

Todays rumor is that the contract for US medical insurance has expired and wasn't renewed on time. So effective midnight, no one has US medical insurance.

That really is going to inspire new hires !

[Romasik]

It doesn't inspire new US hires even with US insurance. Too many time zones and families not willing. Mainly from other parts of the world:)

[Leboeuf]

My overall evaluation after 2 years as Capt.
Soon my contract will end and on my side I will not renew it.
Saudia is a good airline if you land here at your 55/56 and dont have any expectations.

Pro's:
Salary, cockpit environment.
Good equipment

Con's:
-Lines and pairing often changed without notice
if u have a good pairing, be ready that will be changed to 4 legs night flights because someone else with a good wasta want it.
- days off:before/ after you will always have late /early flights and you will be stucked in jed.
-family accomodation: since 1 years no more family accomodation for new joiners. Hotel down town or Motel in compound.
The general system managing the airline is very old: bidding, trades, tech log/mel, dispatch system.
-your base is Jed but you will stay 98% in Riyadh in an isolated Hotel with junk food.
-Not a single expat Capt got a fleet change to wide body, and it will not be in the future as per recent confirmed managment decision.
-Not a single expat F/o got command upgrade.

Most of the pilots are here for money.
Few pilots are leaving because at the end very few are joining
The most senior remains.
Life/family style is very poor.

Hope will help

[polax52]

Alloha:
Careful of the advice you're giving there. There may? In the past have been an extremely small number of expat upgrades but these were in accordance with the company seniority list. If you believe that the Saudi f/o's are going to accept some kind of super seniority with regard to upgrade when many have been with the company for 12 to 15 years and are still waiting, then you are living in dreamland. Have you heard of Saudiisation. It's a big deal here.

Reality check: there will be upgrades and they will be in accordance with seniority.

[captainpluto]

Thank you everyone especially Mutt for clearing out all the doubts for the new FO's joining Saudia. As Ethiad not hiring at the moment, the choice is clearly EK/QR over Saudia. Even if the pay is less one can enjoy more in Dubai with a drink or two and freedom which will add more colour to life rather getting paid more but not being happy at the end of the day in Jeddah. A astronaut might be paid millions but is it of any use to him up in the space? Just a thought.

Regards

[Flyingbusy]

Thank you polax52,
May be rosters will be different with the integration of new 777F ?
I heard that a part of new hired on T7 would be based in Riyad, flying on passenger and cargo.
Lots of opinions about SV. With good and moderate...
But conditions look to be quite accepable if not perfect. What do you think about that ?
And, with the expension of the fleet ; to move to the left seat could be faster.

[mutt]

to move to the left seat could be faster. No No and No. All upgrades will be according to seniority and yours will SUCK, you will be number 8-900 in the First Officers list. There is a steady stream of Saudi college graduates about to start returning, they will take a lot of the A320 training capacity, leaving less places for upgrades.

Present FO's with over 10 years service are getting bypassed due to Saudiization, they were promised left seat A320, but it doesnt appear to be happening.

Last Mainline FO's to upgrade were about 5 years ago.

not being happy at the end of the day in Jeddah Strangely enough a lot of people are extremely happy here, its all relative to how many days you get to spend in the Sahara :)

[alloha]

Polax, i never said something different than 10-12 years minimum for upgrade. practically means that forget it. If you wanna join do it for 3 years of well paid experience in the T7 ( with all the obvious Cons) and then find something else for a command upgrade

[polax52]

Sorry Alloha, I misunderstood...

[captainpluto]

Is there any such understanding in Saudia that for on 777 Arab P1-P2 fly together on most of the occasions and expat P1-P2 are paired together?

[polax52]

captainpluto- I don't think so...

[mutt]

Is there any such understanding in Saudia that for on 777 Arab P1-P2 fly together on most of the occasions and expat P1-P2 are paired together? Where did you get that sort of idea from? Flights are bid as part of a line, they aren't bid with a flying partner as is the case with Flight Attendants. Therefore the crew mix is the luck of the draw.

[dynamicd]

Hello guys, I just sent through my application to saudia to this address [email protected] is this the correct email? Please advise.

Saudia is is my last choice of airline of preference mainly due to no upgrade to captain, I have applied to my first choice etihad and second qatar in that order.

I have 3405 hours total with 1729 on B737 efis as first officer. I have just been upgraded to captain on the dash 8q400 at my present airline. However my heart is with long haul wide body flying. I am 32 years.

What do you guys think? Think of using saudia as stepping stone if it comes first to get on the 777 then move to somewhere I can upgrade,qatar or etihad.
Thanks in advance for your comments.

[N1 Limit]

Dabo i suggest you built some left seat hours on the Q400 and in the sandpit things will go easy for you especially in QR or EY.However i was never aware that saudia don't upgrade expats to left seat

[mutt]

However i was never aware that saudia don't upgrade expats to left seat As we have said before, they do upgrade expats, but its in line with your seniority and company requirements, latest group to get assessed have almost 10 years of service!

[harrison05]

Hey guys,

How can I apply to Saudia? I try through the web but I get ERROR after finishing the application.. Any email useful?
Thanks on advance.

[alloha]

dabo with roughly 1800h ijet time (and only 737) I really doubt that saudia will offer u a T7 position. Bunch og guys with 3-4000 h on the NG are on the line. Furthermore Saudia now is hiring FOs for the 320 as well. I wish u all the best for the T7 but i would keep my horses if I were you.

[Saayang]

Alloha,
What are the mins hrs required for 777 ?

[mutt]

2500 Total
(Min 1500 Glass jet on Narrow Body or 1000 Glass Jet on Wide Body or 750 on Type)

Narrow body = above 35,000 kgs

[dynamicd]

mutt, aloha, n1limit thanks for your comments, will just prepare for the interview then take things as they come.

[mikedreamer787]

Thanks Mutt. I got 1500 on these....


http://www.glasscaketops.com/planes/p/plane4.jpg

[Chirpy Pilot]

I currently undertaking my 190 series Embraer type rating Left Seat, and would like to work in Middle East. I do have about 10,000 hours have turbo prop Q400 the rest Avro RJ and Embraer 145. How marketable am I for left seat in Saudi or Oman Air.

[alloha]

I think u need minimum 2000h pic but u can check their website

[ClimbSequence]

Oman air just started to look for B737/Ejets skippers. 2 days ago.
Mins are 4000TT 500 PIC on type and something like 1500 PIC on 27T Airplane or something else similar to that.
Go ahead and have a look to the website

[mutt]

What's the story with US Medical insurance, gone for good or ??

[polax52]

8 billion dollars spent by Saudia on Airbuses today at the Paris Airshow-60 aircraft.

[argentina21]

What exactly is the nature of the expansion at Saudia? Is it true that percentage growth over the next few years could be from 50 to 100 percent?

[polax52]

argentina21:

There was a press conference last month which explained that the Saudi government and King would like the company to double in size over the next 5 years. The company is currently around 130 aircraft excluding the lease aircraft.

It was clarified that those wishes of the government were simply an impossibility. Despite significant Pilot recruitment efforts over the last 3 years, there just is not enough quality and experience available particularly for the long haul fleets.

They addressed the actual expansion which they believe is possible and listed types and numbers of aircraft they could achieve by 2025. That total is around 195, it includes 70 A320's.The remainder will be wide bodies roughly a split of 777/787 and A330. I would guess that these numbers include the 60 aircraft ordered in Paris.

[alloha]

the company announced orders for 20 A330 regional and 30 A320. The regional A330 has a max range of 3000 NM and it will be used in high density medium and short routes (Cairo Dubai India Pakistan and of course the domestic routes). So the company will utilise the T7 mainly in LR routes. Deliveries to be started by 2017

[fireball_23]

Hey Hey

One quick question. The medical results ( done in Cairo ) should arrive within 10 days. For those who did the interview, is it correct ? Also, did you get the sim result right away ? We have been told that we would receive an email the next day, but so far, none of us received anything. I then assume we will receive a " global " email with the green light when the medical arrives from Cairo.
Do you have any infos ?

[polax52]

fireball:

This is something really bad about the HR department and the selection at the moment. It reflects badly on an otherwise good company.

You will not hear anything until they have the results of the medical back, I believe these results are a government decision and regarding the issuance of the residence permit. The results take 2 weeks to come out and the HR take another week to get positive results out to individuals. Negative results will probably never arrive. if you are really enthusiastic to know your result then wait 2 weeks and then telephone the HR department; forget e-mail..it won't work.

[fireball_23]

Polax, thank you very much for the quick reply. That's what I thought. I'm quite confident but it is still an uncomfortable situation !

[alloha]

@fireball23. I m a bit surprised that they didn't tell you anything about your sim session. Must be a new procedure because until May they used to say . If 15-20 days pass without any update polax is wright. Your possibilities of having an answer in an email are thin though it is happening sometimes. Dont forget that the ramadan starts tomorrow and things will change. So be patient

[argentina21]

polax52,

Thank you for your succinct reply. It clears up much of the confusion regarding future expansion plans at Saudia.

Is there a link to an article outlining what was said at the press conference?

[mutt]

Saudia aims to have 200 aircraft by 2020 | Arab News (http://www.arabnews.com/news/748811)

But so far they haven't placed enough orders to make this happen.

[Sky Hooker]

119 Aircraft under Their fleet.
50 Airbus ( 30 A320 neo and 20 A330 regional)
18 777 arriving Next 3 years
8 787 arriving next 3-4 years
And also 3 777 Freighter arriving this year

That's pretty close to 200 aircraft.......I think age is getting to you MUTT:ok:

[Captain Partzee]

Could anyone PM me information about Saudi. Like pay scale, family life with kids, school, accommodation ... Thanks!

[Sky Hooker]

It's all been covered before on this forum. Just read through the various posts about Saudia ,and it should give you a good idea what to expect.
Good luck:ok:

[mutt]

I think age is getting to you MUTT Or the heat :):)
But as they are supposed to replace the E170, the leased A320s and some of the older 777's, there is still a big gap :)

[polax52]

......not to mention the 744's

[mutt]

and the -8's...... :):)

[polax52]

The horses mouth said at the May meeting 2025- 195 Aircraft.

I have the copyright on the horses mouth....other rumours will not be tolerated.
We all know that everything in Saudia is entirely transparent and nothing changes on a daily basis.

[Sky Hooker]

Once the new Airport is ready a much clearer picture can be expected.
Until then just sit back ,and enjoy the ride:ok:

[onitl]

Total time 10k. Command dash 8 3000k crj command 1400 f28 command 300 hour .. icao atpl possibility to apply

[polax52]

Onitl:

I am sorry but I don't think so. The minimum requirements are in the manual which is approved by GACA and therefore law in Saudi Arabia, these minimums apply to foreign applicants and not to locals; clearly this is to address both the issues of requiring experienced Pilots and the other major factor which is Saudiisation.

There are some variations but basically you need:
Minimum total which you have plus:
3000 hours PIC on the Category of aircraft you're applying for.
500 hours glass jet including FMC (PIC if applying for PIC)
Type rated on company aircraft then PIC minimum are 2500 or 2000 dependent on hours on type.

If you don't have that then you will not get any reply from HR. If you do have it then there is a possibility of a reply from HR.

[metro301]

Just to expand on Polax's answer. The 3000 pic, must be on AC 35,000-160,000kg for narrow body. They used to have some ability to substitute other command time but that appears to be gone.

Put the application in anyway, it can't hurt and worst case they will just ignore you.

[burkster]

I grew up in Saudia City and lived there till I was 18, before moving abroad for university. My dad (just retired) used to be a pilot for SV.

Saudi City is a good enough compound with a supermarket, a couple of resturants, pharmacies, coffee shops, sheesha bars. The best part of living there was the recreation facilities, which cannot be found in any other compounds in the city. AFAIR, there were about 10 swimming pools spread across the compound. 2-3 fitness gyms, many tennis/basketball/volleyball courts, and a big baseball field that was always used by the American school's baseball team.

The compound also has 2 taxi companies operating within. You just call them when you need one, they will come to your door and drop you off anywhere you want to go, outside the compound. Even as far as Makkah and Madinah, for those that want to visit the holy sites.

Anything not inside the compound, is always a short taxi ride away. The compound is in a relatively new part of the city that is quite posh. A gazillion restaurants and cafes within a 10km radius of saudia city. The closest beach is about 5km away.

There are all types of houses in saudia city. From studio apartments to 4-bed villas. The female cabin crew is also housed within saudia city.

If you want any more info on living there or Jeddah, in general, let me know. I can help in whatever way I can.

[Chocks Away]

Word around the water bubbler, is that the 787 order has fattened up and the A330 one might also. 787 options confirmed (+8) with 4 more available frames added = 20. Last week after the Paris Airshow I heard that was now 31 but haven't read any announcement/news release, though they do like to keep things quiet :)
Better make some more space around the airport :}

[Flyboy_SG]

Hi Fireball

Im waiting too. Didnt get any info yet. Probably due to ramadan.

[fireball_23]

Yes most probably. When did you go to Cairo ?

@Burkster : Thanks for the infos !

[Flyboy_SG]

I just read on a website that a guardian has to accompany women when they go out in Saudi. They cant go out alone. Is it true? What if my wife wants to work there in an university?

[Flying738ng]

She can go with the driver, though this is not written anywhere,

[mutt]

What if my wife wants to work there in an university? She can go anyplace that she likes without you, the website that you read is garbage.

However for working in either a school or university, she might have to be employed on her own working visa.

[Flyboy_SG]

Thanks Mutt :D
See you soon.:ok:

[polax52]

Realistically though, if your wife expects to have all of the freedoms she'd have in a western country then this is not the place for you. They have their own culture and rules and you need to behave appropriately. It's not difficult but you're not going to change Saudi Arabia.

[Flyboy_SG]

Thanks Polax. She is ok with the rules. But where can I get the complete set of latest rules?

[Chocks Away]

Where can you get "the complete set of the latest rules?"
Try the Burgis Centre Mall level 4, shop 18e, he's got it on floppy disk, hard drives or can print out for you. Failing that try Mustafa Centre - Syed Alwi Road /Little India. He's sure to have something. :hmm:

Geez mate what are you expecting? The rules haven't changed here for hundreds of years. Read this thread from start to finish. THAT will tell you.

[polax52]

What I mean to say is that it's not bad, you just need to be prepared to adapt a little.

[and]

A LITTLE....

[rdr]

The place is a rule bound one, and most Asians coming here will be able to blend in with the system. The woman here is much more protected, than in many other capitals of Asia.
The place has to be experienced to draw ones own conclusion, rather than speculated on the testimonies of others.

[Flyboy_SG]

I have read this thread back to back 'chocks on'. Happened to read a crude article about by a UK journalist dated June. so was concerned a bit, as I have decided to move in.

[adel]

Gentleman,
Im 777 skipper, interested in knowing more about SV. Have tried to find the SV package in pprune but havent been successful to date.
Can any kind soul please direct me toward a relevant link explaining the widebody package.
Many thanks in advance and apologies in advance if its been answered to death.
Happy flying

[mothergoose1]

i am on atr and abt to go on the 320s this month,my technical course starts soon inshaaALLAH,i have 1200 on atrs,there is alot of flying on the a320,i will easily make that 750 requirement in a year for the non saudi req.i am a cpl holder.Any chance of me getting a reply from saudia on the 320s after getting those hours.Please reply :)

[alloha]

Honestly very few chances. ATR is out of Saudia requirements ?Further more Saudia had a huge assessment in Kuala Lumpur 10 days ago ,due to the future situation in MAS. More than 130 pilots attended it and SV will have a second assessment later in the Summer in Malaysia.

[mothergoose1]

even after being a320 rated with 1000 hrs, they also have ordered 50 a330 and a320 ,so maybe i do have a chance;)

[alloha]

I wiSh u all the best .FYI so far I haven't seen an expat FO with less than 3000 h jet time. Furthermore some of the new 320's are going to replace the older ones.

[mutt]

Mohamed Haider Shah..... your account doesn't accept messages.... All cadets must be Saudi Nationals.

[mothergoose1]

@aalloha their requirement is of 750 hours on type 320.and what's the job security like . How do they treat expats on a320 as its the junior most equipment .how are the captains and sim instructors like.basically what arE the things an a320 expat f/o be concerned. Is working for saudia as an expat f/o like having a sword on your head that you can be fired anytime you make a mistake .how is their department like , do they show leniency in case of an error made.

[fly9898]

Want to know about the days off and the salary for fo 777

[FO Cokebottle]

mothergoose1 and fly9898,

Just one word......

Really?!? :hmm::ugh:

[alloha]

Fly9898. I want a double pepperoni special a ceasar salad and a soda :ugh::ugh:

Mothergoose1 you forgot to ask our appreciation for having You here in the thread. I feel so great full my beloved master :mad::mad:

[Chocks Away]

I'll third that motion boys:ok:
Motion passed!
By the way (yuh) 'Goose, your lack of research has shown up as the A320/21 is not the most junior equipment.

[omis]

How is the training process now? also during training is the pay just your basic? when do they start to take the money for the bond or have they stopped with the bond scheme?

[alloha]

@omis. Training in the A320 a bit faster than the B777 but still lots of oral checks multiple Gaca checks etc. bond is in effect (100.000 SAR) and a 25% is deducted from the first basic salary (only for non type rated pilots) .The 100.000 are refunded on the 24th month of service with a 10% interest.Type rated pilots receive full salary.

[0flyR]

So I posted to try and start a new thread and got that it has to be reviewed by the administrator. Still waiting on that. Had a few general questions but I will just ask this for now. Is this link still current or has any info on it changed?

https://secure.sv.net/sv/forec/FDC.html

Any insight would be great. I will post the rest of my Questions later. Thanks

0FlyR

[argentina21]

Which aircraft are expat FO's being hired into?

Last I heard it was the 777 and A330.

Has the A320 been added to that list? (I thought that the A320 and E-170 were for Saudi cadet pilots).

Thanks.

[omis]

@argentina21 last i saw they were hiring all types both seats, could have changed.

[fireball_23]

So far, from what I've heard, they are not hiring anymore on the 777. My group was one of the last.
I don't know if it only applies for Capt; Fo; or both.

[alloha]

1) they are still ill hiring for all types .But company will be more " picky " especially on the B777 as MAS is expected to be a major source with highly experienced and type rated crews. Also the introduction of the 787 will change things. Many locals are sceptical about it ,as the routes assigned to the 787 are not very attractive (Guangzou Manchester and Toronto according to rumours ). Senior pilots in the 747 have the option to choose between the B777 and the B787 and most of them go for the T7.

2) the link with salaries and conditions has some updates. ACM is provided from the first day of training .Also the annual increase in basic salary is now 5%

[mutt]

Also the annual increase in basic salary is now 5% Where did that come from?

[polax52]

2) the link with salaries and conditions has some updates. ACM is provided from the first day of training .Also the annual increase in basic salary is now 5%

Wow, contract improvement via pprune.

[Chocks Away]

Mmm yes and reliably informed that a generous Profit Share bonus has been signed off on last month too.
Exciting times, in the race for experienced crew :}

[mothergoose1]

@alloha lmao,haha

[and]

5%??????
Bonus signed off last month?????
In wich airline?

[mutt]

Also the annual increase in basic salary is now 5% He didnt say BONUS, he said annual increase, originally this was 5.6%, then reduced to 3%, now it appears to have increased to 5% again.

The ANNUAL BONUS is fixed at 4 weeks (Ramadan)

[Chocks Away]

Ok copied that Mutt but I specifically heard "Profit Share" to be distributed at the end of Financial Year, not the Ramadan bonus. You may be able to shed some light?
:ok:

[Flyboy_SG]

@ Mothergoose once you meet the Minimums you'll be hired as FO. Strap on for 6 months as they are launching 500hr P1 upgrade process. You'll get lucky I'm telling you. The trainers and line captains are very sweet. Don't worry.

[mutt]

Quite a mix of nationalities in the left seat of the A320, but all i can are Saudi FO's, did they hire any foreigner FO's for the 320?

[polax52]

I have also heard of the "profit share". All staff will receive a share of 10% of the company's profit.

Still not sure about the 5% increment though, I've heard absolutely nothing about that.

[alloha]

@mutt. They start advertising A320 F/O positions 2 months ago. So even if they have hired someone i don't think they will be reqdy for training. (2-3 weeks the green light for the medical exams plus Visas plus the ramadan). I guess best bet is the September classes

[captainpluto]

Do we require a current class1 medical and IR current before joining saudi on the 777?

[mutt]

Do we require a current class1 medical Why wouldn't you have a class 1? If for some reason you can't hold one, they its highly unlikely that you will pass the astronaut medical requirements with Dr S (Who i believe is still here, or is he :)?)

[captainpluto]

Obviously i have a class one medical, i asked if we require a current class one medical as mine is expiring in October and same goes for my IR. My joining date is in November. So once again i ask do we require a current IR and a current class one medical before joining?

[fireball_23]

A quick question.

I'm about to join Saudia ( pre-contract says August 2nd ).

However, I am struggling with the visa process. They basically changed the process, and it's a real mess.
The consulat is requiring more and more authentifications. I am from Europe, but do have a FAA license. ( I have letters from the FAA but it is not enough for them ). They want an authentication from the " Saudi Arabia Cultural bureau ", in the States.
Are you aware of the process ? Any tips to make a quick license authentication ?

[SW1]

Do Saudia upgrade FOs onto the A320s?

How long does one have to be employed there before you can start the process?

Thanks

[mutt]

Do Saudia upgrade FOs onto the A320s?


Yes, they upgrade from widebody aircraft down to A320, but not right seat left seat on the 320.


How long does one have to be employed there before you can start the process? I would guess 10 years!! They can upgrade around 100 per year and your seniority number would be around 1000 (FO's).

[mutt]

So once again i ask do we require a current IR As there is no such thing in FAA/GACA land, I would say that the answer is no.

and a current class one medical before joining? As the medical is required for the license to be valid, I would say that the answer is Yes.

[mutt]

OK we have had our rumors about fleet increases, salary increases, and bonuses..... so whats next....

Who want's to guess at the new routes for 2016?

[captainpluto]

But don't we have to do a initial class one medical once we land in Saudi, before we start the training? I mean the saudi medical or whichever local medical is done

[mutt]

Since they stopped people doing the GACA written's for their license, that means that you are now getting a validation again, like the old days, so you need a valid licence. Is your licence valid without the medical?

What are you going to do if you show up without a medical and they require one?

[alloha]

Captainpluto. The med examas u had during your assessment are identical with the Saudi medical.so if u pass the assessment there is no reason to worry for your Saudi Medical. They dont ask for currency of 12 or 18 months an IR is not mandatory

[mothergoose1]

@flyboy_sg ,thanks man,il get those hours coming ,on the A320 cbt nowadays :O

[Flyboy_SG]

@Captpluto, you'll do two more Medicals in Saudia.

[0flyR]

Has anybody been hired recently as DEC on the 320? Can you shed a little on the process after getting hired to arriving for training, and also the training process if gotten that far.

[ClimbSequence]

Mutt,

Are you saying the conversion to GACA license is not available anymore?
From now on everybody will validate there own license from back home to fly in GACA land?

[Mohamed Haider Shah]

Thank You for the reply Mutt. I'm totally new in the PPrune. Btw do you have any advice for me being a newly FAA CPL pilot insya allah by end of this year. You can also reply me at [email protected]

Jazakallah Khair

[mutt]

Are you saying the conversion to GACA license is not available anymore? Anyone recent hires care to answer this? The did have new hires spending their first weeks studying for the GACA ATP, but this stopped about two months ago.

So I'm assuming that they have gone back to validations.

[alloha]

Mutt , your assumption is correct. The last group with a GACA ATPL or CPL exam were the guys that started on March. Furthermore FO's with ATPL in their possession now receive GACA ATPL instead of CPL.

PS FO's without ATPL in their possession have to take the GACA CPL written exam

[ClimbSequence]

Interesting how this have changed so quickly in the Kingdom.

As far as I understand the B744 are leaving, what is going to happen with the B748? Especially as the B777F are now coming?
And the embraer??? Are they leaving too???

[mothergoose1]

@alloha do direct hire a320 f/o with icao cpl license only have to give full of cpl or just the law paper to convert to gaca cpl?

[alloha]

Mothergoose i can only make an assumption and say that all you have to do is to give just the GACA exam which is based 100% on the FAA cpl i can't imagine anything else

[N1 Limit]

Hi there
I'd like to know with 2500 hours on narrow and widebody jet but without ATP Saudi could hire me?
Around 1800 hours on the 737 NG and 500+/- hours on the 767

[omis]

Whats the best type to get hired on now at Saudia? is it better to wait and see when the new types come and go for those if eligible? or get in now DEC? Im guessing once your in its impossible to move types for at least 8-12 years, unless your type is phased out...

[polax52]

omis- Your assumptions are correct regarding changing fleet once in.

You will have no real choice but to accept the fleet which you're offered. Shorthaul there is only the A320 though, if that's what you experience reflects. Longhaul it'll either be 777, 787 or A330. For making money the 777 is the best for the time being. In the distant future it could become the 787.

[mutt]

what is going to happen with the B748? Some interesting rumors about this, I don't think that it will be staying in the mainline.

[captainpluto]

Hey,

As a joining F/O on 777 with a ICAO atpl, what is the latest scenario with the licensing in Sauida currently. Will i be flying on a Cpl or they will give me direct conversion to the Gaca Atpl without any exams?

Regards

[polax52]

Regarding the B748: it is a special case because the Royal Flight will introduce 2 B748 intercontinental's. Saudia normally operate a fleet of similar aircraft outside of the Royal fleet for the purposes of keeping crews current, maintenance current, spare parts etc available. Let's see what happens, it does seem to be an aircraft which has presented the company with very major technical problems though.

[omis]

Aloha and polax52 sent you both PM, Mutt thanks for your response.

[argentina21]

Does anyone know what the schedule is for upcoming interviews/assessments? How many times per month?

Thanks.

[Flyboy_SG]

What are the travel perks for family/relatives/friends? Is there any skyteam perks ?

[mutt]

For long term employees the travel concessions are excellent, but for family members you get 1 confirmed ticket home to domicile plus 1 standby ticket to nearest SVA station.

Crew also get 1 ticket per month.

Thats it, nothing for parents, nothing for friends.

[guiones]

Mutt, also the SED tickets for family which I use often.

Guiones

[Flyboy_SG]

Yeah nothing for family. For parents ID50 tickets and nothing else.
Just confirmed with HR.

[mutt]

Yeah nothing for family. If this is correct, then you are getting lower benefits than the rest of the employees.

[beaver creek]

Hi everybody.
what about travel benefits for spouse and kids?
do they travel on business or economy?
thanks.

[North_Bedouin]

On SV, as mutt mentioned - only for you and eligible dependends (spouse and kids in KSA) one yearly free confirmed domicile (to the nearest SV station on SV and the remaining segment on other airlines), and one free standby to any SV station. Free means you pay airport taxes.
On the other hand, for you and your eligible relatives (spouse, kids under 24, parents) after six months of service you have unlimited ZED travels on other airlines (not on SV though) worldwide via myidtravel according to agreements.

[mutt]

via myidtravel according to agreements. From which Air France has disappeared from as of today!!! What happened to SKYTEAM?

[North_Bedouin]

I've noticed too. Wondering if this is single AF issue or SV-AF issue...

[North_Bedouin]

I also found that AF domestic/European flights marketed as EY codeshare, and not SV codeshare anymore.

[lorbak]

Hi, North Beduin ,
If I understood it correctly, my family would have one free SBy ticket on SV network per year and after that can we purchase further sby tickets on SV or that's it?

[North_Bedouin]

You can buy confirmed ID50 and standby ID75 on SV depending on your seniority.
But this discount (50% or 75%) is calculated from high fares which makes the price you pay very unattractive when comparing with ZED on other airlines.

[metro301]

Lorbak,

You, Spouse, Kids,

= 1 free positive space ticket home per year in First (capt), In business (FO).
+ 1 space available economy on SVA
+ Zed fare (space available) Unlimited
+ ID50 (positive) and ID75 (space available) on SVA, Unlimited

You only,

= 1 ticket per month positive space. Economy, but upgradable.


Any remaining family, parents, parents inlaw, siblings, friends, pets, etc

= ZERO

[lorbak]

Thanks much now is much more clear

[Romasik]

Quote:
via myidtravel according to agreements.
From which Air France has disappeared from as of today!!! What happened to SKYTEAM?
Still available through a CPO. Looks like a technical issue:ooh:

[mutt]

Looks like a technical issue Yep, they say that it will return soon :)

[Flying738ng]

Is saudia hiring capts and FO for 787?

[mutt]

Historically they will only do transition training for new aircraft, so that rules out new-hires. This will most likely be crewed from E170/320 crew as there are only 8 of them.

Plus there is the "new toy" element :)

[captainpluto]

Any information on how is the cockpit atmosphere in SV? How are the 777 skippers to fly with? Are they to hard on the FO or accommodating?

[Chocks Away]

Apparently no EMB/320 crew for the 787 sorry Mutt as a few of us have heard GACA have stated that wide body experienced crew are req'd for this "new type" (from internal 747 / 777 / 330 fleets). Who knows how it will roll though. Definitely alot more than 8 coming now too.
It's a pity they don't recognise the Boeing "STAR" transition from 777 or other Boeing glass types, as many of us already have 777/787 on an ATPL. Shortened transition courses much like the 320 / 330 elsewhere.

Happy Landings:ok:

[RAKH787]

Chocks, your statement is not true. Already some of Embraer Captains have done their 787 training, and most of E170 IPs and F/Os are starting their 787 training from next month. Saudia is expanding its fleet and routes, and Saudia has no issue of marketing. Its the right time to join Saudia. One thing for sure Saudi's are good professionals and discipline Pilots.

[alloha]

I have answered in many PMs. Most of them in detailed. But some guys keep sending so stupid questions that really makes me wonder whether they are professional pilots or just private license holders and wannabes professional pilots. Guys there is no aviation paradise.or at least nothing will be like your home flag carrier if it happens to have one. Saudia and not only Saudi but other airlines in the ME are far away from a walk in the park. You have to work hard for your salary. And in some few or even more cases you will have to deal with wrong attitude improper behaviour etc. If you think that you are the Cinderella of the skies do yourself a favour. Stay where you are. For your own shake. I do apologise for the aggressive attitude but sometimes patience has its limits

[mutt]

But some guys keep sending so stupid questions that really makes me wonder whether they are professional pilots or just private license holders and wannabes professional pilots. Think that I got the same PM's... also asked the person if they were a pilot as they didn't understand the concept of LOFT. People like that who are extremely sensitive are advised to stay away from Saudia.

[Chocks Away]

Copied that RAK :ok:
Well there you go... so much talk and rumours in the air but that's what's happening... I won't even start with the new destinations we're hearing of :}

Happy Landings:ok:

[LimaVictor]

Guys, I applied a couple of months ago to Saudia, sending the application form they sent me plus all the required copies of license and medical back to them and I have not heard anything back from them so far.
Is it usually like this? Should I relax and accept the fact they are just slow to reply or is it because they are not calling any more for interviews?
Any tips? Maybe a name who to directly contact in order to ask my status?
Thanks!
happy landings:ok:

[Flyboy_SG]

It's upto an individual to make the best of any airline. There will be negative side as well as positives.

[polax52]

Guys, I applied a couple of months ago to Saudia, sending the application form they sent me plus all the required copies of license and medical back to them and I have not heard anything back from them so far.
Is it usually like this? Should I relax and accept the fact they are just slow to reply or is it because they are not calling any more for interviews?
Any tips? Maybe a name who to directly contact in order to ask my status?
Thanks!
happy landings:ok:

If you're qualified then I'm sure you'll get a reply.

The problem happening both on pprune and for the HR department is that they and we are inundated with speculative applications from people who are not qualified. The HR department has no power on who to select, the qualifications for direct entry foreign Pilots are laid down in law by GACA.

[Ve764]

Hey Gang I'm not sure I understand what SV wants in regards to Ticket price approval.I'm scheduled for an assesment on Sept14th. I want to purchase my Ticket Sept5th. online.Given the fact that the price may vary I added a cushion to my proposal.I don't wanna wait to long to purchase the ticket as the fare will increase yet I want to ensure getting the money returned I allocated for the ticket purchase. Anybody got a fool proof way or info you can share??? Thx V.

[mutt]

Ask them to pay for the ticket, you might be able to convince them!

[fireball_23]

You should send them the link with the flight details / price. They will tell you how much they cover. Good look with you assessment :)

[Flying738ng]

Max they would cover up to 800 usd

[mutt]

Max they would cover up to 800 usd From where? fares are obviously different from Mumbai versus from the USA, so they can't be sticking to a single figure.

[Cair117]

Gentlemen... and maybe ladies.. I heard through the sand dunes that Saudia is going to offer a commuting contract with 20 on 10 off with 30 days vacation for crews accepting domiciles in RUH and DMM. I'm currently at Flynas on a 20/10 contract... Lot of guys here talking about this in the past few days. Really interested as it would help my commute from the US! Any news on your end?

[alloha]

red sox , indeed SV has released a survey about the 20/10. And only for RUH. Very slim chances according to senior captains. It will take lot of time and effort.and if i m not mistaken it has happened in the past as well. There are people who left Saudia for NAS and the 20/10. So basically is a bate for the 320 crews. Although more than 55% of SV flights in the 320 depart from RUH (and almost 50% of the 777) .Also it will allow SV for better utilisation of the 777 crews as many of them deadhead on the previous day of the LR or the ULR flight from RUH so they have to do (sometimes)if the return flight happens to land in RUH. The cost of the hotel is not an issue for SV
Also most locals would love to move to RUH so if the priority will be based on seniority nothing will hapen for the expats.
So keep your horses. It will be ideal for me as well but miracles do not happen and even if the would ,it will take many years

[Cair117]

Alloha, thanks for the info. I figured most expats there would love that situation. Also I understand probably lots of locals would like to be based in RUH. But wouldn't they just open a base there with the same contract.. what is the point of offering 20/10?