BA Cityflyer

[BAladdy]

LCY-ANE - Flights will not operate S17.
LCY-HAM - Route suspended from 25th March 2017.
LCY-IBZ & PMI - New Friday late evening departure and Sunday late morning departures added.

[virginblue]

Shame about HAM and too bad that Sun Air has moved its operation to BRE. They have, however, spare capacity so I wonder if they will try to make a return and operate HAM in addition to BLL and BRE. Problem could be suitable slots at LCY, though.

[richardwpprn]

Are there some high end leisure airports in Europe where an A319 can't go but E190SR can?

[EK77WNCL]

Guernsey? That's got to be about it...

After much consideration I have Lugano. Although that would probably require an E170

I also have Melilla... But why would they?

[virginblue]

- Altenrhein/St. Gallen
- Berne

[EK77WNCL]

Helvetic operates/operated their A319 out of Bern on scheduled flights, and Germania's Swiss devision will be starting shortly, so not limited to Embraers

Altenrhein a good shout, although People's Viennaline would seem more likely to serve LCY than BA Cityflyer

[Wycombe]

Guernsey?

It was a one-off but a BA 319 went there during the London 2012 Olympic Torch tour.

[virginblue]

Sure, but if ever a LON-BRN route will be reinstated, it would probably be from LCY. The only options for A319s are easyJet from LGW/LTN or BA from LHR and I don't see one of them coming to BRN. The standard steed of LCCs, A320/738s, are a no-go.

That is not to say that I regard LCY-BRN on BA much more likely.

[planedrive]

Why do you suggest that A320/738's can't use Bern? The runway is longer than Dortmund which sees regular 738/A320 and even A321 service.

[davidjohnson6]

A few years ago I flew with Skywork from Bern to London City - last time I checked they still were flying the route

[virginblue]

Berne: 1730m runway at an altitude of 510m
Dortmund: 2000m runway at an altitude of 130m

There have been a handful of one-off sports charters with A320s at Bern, but AFAIK none of those were fully loaded.

[planedrive]

Both runways in Dortmund have displaced thresholds reducing the LDA to 1700m. Jersey also see's regular A319/A320 service and has a runway length of 1703m again with no impact at all. To suggest that the runway in Bern is not long enough is just laughable. If you want to really hammer home the point, look at the runway in Santos Dumont Brazil - 1323m and currently inbound are B738's and 319's as well as the Embraer/Turboprops.

[virginblue]

No reason to get so worked up. Santos Dumont / Jersey etc. are all not at an altitude of 510m.

A simple fact is that the Airbus A320 has been around for 30 years, but there has never been a regular service by that type to/from Berne. And the only B737-800s that have ever served Berne were BBJ2s with a handful of people on board.

More importantly, I think we are discussing if there are niche markets for which the E170/190 has a competitive edge over 150/180 seaters operated by LCCs. And I think Berne is an example. Not everywhere where you can technically dump a larger aircraft in the runway does it make sense.

[nguba]

BACF is reported to have suspended LCY-GVA for the summer season:

https://londonairtravel.com/2017/02/07/british-airways-to-suspend-london-city-geneva-route-from-late-march-to-late-october-2017/

[virginblue]

With now five routes cancelled, how will the aircraft be used? The cancellation of MAD and GVA plus no resumtion of ALC must free up the capacity of almost two Embraers. While it also means that leased-in capacity from Eastern can be returned (E70 on HAM) or replaced (S20 on IOM), at least one airframe needs to find work. Will existing routes be ramped up, is heavy maintenance due or is a back-up airframe planned for the summer season?

[tigertanaka]

Berne Belp airport only has 3 gates and 1 luggage carousel. There is simply not the demand for large planes to land there.

Nice city though.

[Skipness One Echo]

CFE has never had profit and loss split out publically?
We all rather assumed this operation was some form of high yield gold mine but it feels a little like having muscled everyone else off core routes, BA are not doing as well as perhaps they thought. Has a bubble burst perhaps?

[cornishsimon]

Or could BA be remodeling cityflyer

Core LCY business and secondary regional markets..........

Don't they have plans for more E-Jets ?

cs

[monkey.tennis]

Profit and loss information is available through the financial reports filed at companies house. Every year in recent memory, the company has met its 'stretched' financial target. Whether that will continue, who knows.

[richardwpprn]

KL are starting AMS-LCY with their own E90s, they'll be 4 flights per day for the summer timetable, putting Cityflyer under pressure on this route.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Cross rail opens from Heathrow to Liverpool St and Canary Wharf.

[pamann]

If BACF have suspended operations on LCY-GVA, how will this affect the STN-GVA service that utilises the aircraft from LCY via GVA to operate over the weekend from STN? This route has only just been announced so it would seem a bit odd if you ask me.

[virginblue]

I guess they will add XXX-STN-XXX from whereever the E90 now flies instead of GVA. Or they will simply position the aircraft LCY-STN-LCY. STN-GVA was nothing more than a glorified positioning flight in the first place and not a bedrock of BACF overall business plan.

As for the handful of folks already booked on GVA-STN, I would assume this means LHR on mainline if they do not want to cancel.

[tigertanaka]

I wonder if KLM have launched LCY in the hope that it does well and they can then sell off some of their LHR slot pairs? They are definitely slot sitting there as they regularly fly 70 seat Fokkers into LHR when MAN, EDI and NCL take 737s.

[inOban]

British Airways announces new Skiathos route from London City, two million seats for summer | Travel News (http://www.travel-news.co.uk/10599/2017/02/british-airways-announces-new-skiathos-route-from-london-city-two-million-seats-for-summer/)

Strangely this doesn't mention dropping GVA

[pamann]

As much as it's a 'glorified positioning flight' similar to the TXL flight, why would they put it in place if the GVA route was being dropped? Decisions like this would have been made behind closed doors before this was route was announced last week, it just doesn't make sense.

No official announcement from BA that the route has been canned?

Edit:

The above linked article has been amended and now states...

'The last flights operate on Friday 16 June 2017 and resume on Monday 11 September 2017'

Which would answer why the STN-GVA service doesn't show on quite a few dates if this is the case.

Strange as I would have thought GVA to be popular during the summer with leisure traffic.

[toledoashley]

Maybe CF are just repeating what BA are doing at LHR. Reducing capacity on routes which don't perform as well in July/August and replace them with leisure routes for the peak holiday season...?

[Skipness One Echo]

GVA was a winter only flight for years, only recently returning to year round. Seems they can better place the asset elsewhere outwith skiing season....

[FRatSTN]

Birmingham - Florence
Birmingham - Ibiza
Birmingham - Malaga
Birmingham - Palma de Mallorca

Bristol - Florence
Bristol - Ibiza
Bristol - Malaga
Bristol - Palma de Mallorca

[nguba]

It's noteworthy that announcements seem to be coming by order of airport owner.

MAN and STN are both owned by Manchester Airports Group.

BRS is owned by the Ontario Teachers Plan which also owns significant stake in BHX.

Do we think there will be any more announcements?

[cornishsimon]

Wouldn't rule it out.

If they think they can make money there's several airports/regions that could be served here. Either way, this is good for flyers.


cs

[richardwpprn]

From the schedules it appears the aircraft and crew will sort of be based at Florence, Ibiza Malaga and Palma de Mallorca for the weekend to operate these routes.

Interesting that AGP and FLR continue to the end of the summer timetable in October, it'll be interesting to see what happens for the winter timetable.

BA Source has a useful summary http://thebasource.com/ba-cityflyer-announce-bristol-and-birmingham-summer-saturday-series/

'All services will operate as inbound returns from the non-UK airports to the following schedules:

BA7016 Florence 1110 – Bristol 1225 Saturdays
BA7017 Bristol 1310 – Florence 1625 Saturdays
BA7024 Florence 1710 – Birmingham 1835 Saturdays
BA7025 Birmingham 1920 – Florence 2240 Saturdays

BA7018 Ibiza 1310 – Bristol 1440 Saturdays
BA7019 Bristol 1525 – Ibiza 1850 Saturdays
BA7026 Ibiza 1940 – Birmingham 2125 Saurdays
BA7027 Birmingham 2210 – Ibiza 0145+1 Saturdays.

BA7020 Malaga 1330 – Bristol 1515 Saturdays
BA7021 Bristol 1600 – Malaga 1940 Saturdays
BA7030 Malaga 2025 – Birmingham 2220 Saturdays
BA7031 Birmingham 2305 – Malaga 0255+1 Saturdays

BA7022 Palma 1415 – Bristol 1545 Saturdays
BA7023 Bristol 1630 – Palma 1955 Saturdays
BA7028 Palma 2040 – Birmingham 2215 Saturdays
BA7029 Birmingham 2300 – Palma 0230+1 Saturdays.'

[richardwpprn]

Are there some high end leisure airports in Europe where an A319 can't go but E190SR can?

La Gomera GMZ has a runway length of 1500m, not sure if it's too far from LCY nor high end enough?

[davidjohnson6]

La Gomera manages 2 prop flights per day to Tenerife North airport. There are currently no flights either to other Canary Islands nor to the Spanish mainland. The main tourist pull is for walking holidays - I think the main non-Spanish country market for this is Germany. Talking about flights to the UK is somewhat theoretical

[Flightrider]

Disagree ref GMZ being exclusively targeted for the German market. The island's infrastructure and economy is heavily tied to Fred Olsen and together with its developments, there is also a reasonably big UK set-up there by Holiday Property Bond, which will generate 300-400 travellers ex UK each week in all.

[richardwpprn]

Would refuelling at GMZ be expensive?

[toledoashley]

I think Astraeus tried flights to Gomera on their 73G for one or two seasons. Similar sort of profile as La Palma - and that manages 4 flights per week from London, so there must be a market.

[AirLCY]

Its probably too far from LCY otherwise wouldn't they fly LCYTFS etc? Wonder if it could work from STN?

[davidjohnson6]

La Palma has 2200m of runway while La Gomera has just 1500m - this makes routes to La Palma with a 150+ seat jet from northern Europe much more economically viable

La Gomera really is a lovely place - and I'd happily go there tomorrow. I just think that if IAG were going to open a new route from La Gomera outside the Canary Islands, somewhere like Madrid is going to be much higher up in the priority list

[richardwpprn]

Its probably too far from LCY otherwise wouldn't they fly LCYTFS etc? Wonder if it could work from STN?

They did TCI-LCY when they were delivered from Embraer.

[jijpc]

I think I am right when I say that they were initially delivered to Exeter or Manchester for pre entry mods rather than direct to LCY.

It is also worth noting that they would not have been full of passengers and freight on delivery. I suspect that with a full load they would not be able to carry enough fuel off the runway at LCY to undertake a flight of this length.

[Cloud1]

How do the BACF E190s fair against the BE E195s? I only ask because Flybe operate BHX-PVK (Preveza, Greece) in the summer which must be a reasonable sector. Not sure how it compares to a TFS sector though.

[cornishsimon]

Look at the runways at BHX and LCY.

cs

[richardwpprn]

LCY-JTR is the current longest, is that about the maximum range?

[AirLCY]

Probably the longest from LCY, but E190's can do more than that from a long runway, Air Canada have/had some 5-6 hour sectors

[Cloud1]

Look at the runways at BHX and LCY.

cs

Let's apply a little common sense, I wasn't comparing BHX and LCY. It had been mentioned STN-TFS so a reasonably decent comparison to the likes of BHX-PVK I would have thought.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know if BACF have dropped there planned weekly LCY-MAN service?. It's just that the flights are not available to book.

BACF are also adding a weekly DUB-IBZ service. Flights are currently showing as operating as follows:

BA2349 DUB 22:25 IBZ 02:20 E90 5
BA2348 IBZ 09:00 IBZ 10:55 E90 7

[LAX_LHR]

The LCY-MAN flights are bookable from 21st Feb as per the press release. One flight LCY-MAN but 2 flights MAN-LCY. Also 2 more routes expected to fill out the 2nd E190 based at MAN Sat/Sun.

MAN-LCY:

BA9797 MAN 1320 LCY 1420
BA9785 MAN 1955 LCY 2055
Sun

LCY-MAN:

BA9784 LCY 1945 MAN 2045
Thu

Hope that helps.

[BA318]

BA are launching LCY-LIN and STN-LIN



Twice daily from LCY and twice a week from STN.


British Airways - LAUNCH OF MILAN FLIGHTS FROM TWO LONDON AIRPORTS (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8263?ref=Home)

[ATNotts]

Is this expansion of services into "the regions", albeit at the moment only a good way of increasing weekend fleet utilisation, perhaps a toe in the water towards diversification away from over concentration on LCY, should the Brexit negotiations go badly, and demand for services between LCY and the principal financial centres fall as a result?

Perhaps moving forward we could see a return to some thicker routes from the likes of MAN, BHX and BRS - I'm thinking of destinations such as PAR / FRA / MIL for example using the E170. Could shake up FlyBe in their own backyard if they did.

[virginblue]

As LCY most likely will be the hardest hit British/English airport as a result of Brexit, it is probably a good idea for BACF to refocus and shift some capacity from business routes to (high end) leisure routes at LCY and in general do more leisure oriented flying away from LCY. As they cater for the higher end of the market, their customer base will be less affected by the rising costs of holidays abroad, whereas business travel by the same customers will be somewhat reduced with the UK economy focusing more on overseas links and less so on the continent. Will be very interesting to see how pax numbers at LCY develop in this new political world.

[richardwpprn]

LON-MIL is saturated with flights, from BA, Ryanair, easyJet, Alitalia.

[AirLCY]

LCY-LIN must do ok for AZ, 5 daily!

[richardwpprn]

I think AZ get some feed at LIN.

[Skipness One Echo]

LON-MIL is saturated with flights, from BA, Ryanair, easyJet, Alitalia.
It's Swanwick Mil nowadays I think?

It does rather feel CFE are falling out of love with LCY. The airport charges are quite high and the amount of churn on the route network is worryingly high of late. It seems BA (again) have forced the competition out, won then realised they're not quite sure what to do next.
Even LCY-JFK can't be that secure as reliability, already not the best, will only get worse with a single aircraft operation.

[davidjohnson6]

Flying from LCY is a big bet on whether post-Brexit, banks, insurers, fund managers, etc can continue to operate across the EU from London due to regulatory passporting / equivalency, or whether they need to move a sizeable chunk of operations to somewhere that remains in the EU. This of course all depends on how Westminster and Brussels get on in the Brexit negotiations - if passporting / equivalency is not allowed in a meaningful way, expect LCY to see some degree of pain. BACF will be well aware of the possible risk to profitable operations at LCY

[BAladdy]

London City to Milan

BA7303 LCY 10:15 LIN 13:15 E90 x7
BA7307 LCY 19:20 LIN 22:20 E90 x6

BA7300 LIN 06:55 LCY 07:50 E90 x7
BA7300 LIN 17:55 LCY 18:50 E90 x6

London Stansted to Milan

BA7309 STN 10:10 LIN 13:15 E90 7
BA7309 STN 19:25 LIN 22:20 E90 6

BA7308 LIN 06:55 STN 07:55 E90 7
BA7308 LIN 17:55 STN 18:55 E90 6

BACF will also operate a weekly scheduled service on a Friday from EDI to PMI from June operated by a E90

[nguba]

EDI to PMI confirmed a long with DUB to IBZ:

British Airways - NEW SUMMER SUN FLIGHTS FROM DUBLIN AND EDINBURGH (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8269?ref=Home)

[inOban]

These Fri morning BACF flights are possible because there is little business traffic on a Fri am. They are needed for the pm flights for those who are employed in London or Edinburgh during the week and return home on Friday evenings. For the same reason the planes must return to their usual routes for Sunday afternoon.

[ELondonPax]

it's quite a leap to go from observing that Cityflyer is adding a few niche weekend routes - at times when LCY is closed/restricted hours - and suddenly inferring that they're abandoning LCY.

[virginblue]

While I understand the idea behind the leisure routes from LCY where BACF has no LC/IT competition, what is the concept behind flights from places like EDI, DUB, BHX, STN where BACF is competing with airlines operating to the same destinations with 180-220 seaters? I see the need to keep the Embraers flying when they are not needed/allowed at LCY, but can this really make money? Can BACF charge a considerable premium for flights on the "BA" brand and on a somewhat more comfortable, smaller aircraft so that the higher operating costs for a 100seater are offset?

[inOban]

Previously the BACF flights from EDI have been fully chartered, except when they tried overnight flights to IBZ a couple of years ago. They were generally Barrhead Travel flights, and were promoted as BA flights. This year there is a Malaga flight which is a TOM charter. I suspect that BA are hoping to sell surplus seats, not the whole plane.

[pamann]

Avios could be part of the reason folk will book with them. It's certainly why I have.

Some don't like travelling low cost either. I know BA aren't a great deal different these days to the likes of EZY etc, but those E190's are fantastic from a customer point of view especially the 2-2 seating and the legroom is pretty generous. No one trying to flog you lotto tickets whilst you sit back and relax either. It's quite a pleasant experience IMHO.

[FQTLSteve]

I agree with you pamann. I do AGP-BHX > 15 x year, I choose by time but also by comfort with Monarch extra legroom seats and similarly with Vueling, and have already booked the first AGP-BHX BA flight. I was a Silver Executive club until BA became London Airways in 2006.......will happily use BA again at a premium, and those E jets are really comfortable.

[nguba]

In addition to the brand and frequent flyer programme, BA Holidays has been a bit of a game changer for BA over the past few years. They can sell a broad range of holiday packages via ba.com

[virginblue]

So how do these flights / IT-packages compare price-wise with easyjet, Monarch, Jet2 or Thomson on those routes? Would be interesting if the concept worked to offer a somewhat more expensive and slightly less frugal flight product in these times of a never-ending race to the bottom of air travel.

Avios could be part of the reason folk will book with them. It's certainly why I have.

Undoubtedly so - but this is something BA will not base its decision on unless that keeps those travelling on Avios away from more lucrative flights elsewhere (assumig that Avios mainly mean redemptin of air miles earned on BA flights - I am not familiar with Avios in general, i.e. how much other companies pay to BA via the Avios scheme).

[AdamThePassenger]

Slight schedule change - IOM flights are now Eastern S2000 only, no more E-Jets. Bergerac is now entirely E-Jets with no more S2000s.

Adam

[BAladdy]

Previously the BACF flights from EDI have been fully chartered, except when they tried overnight flights to IBZ a couple of years ago. They were generally Barrhead Travel flights, and were promoted as BA flights. This year there is a Malaga flight which is a TOM charter. I suspect that BA are hoping to sell surplus seats, not the whole plane
IBZ - The flight you mention was never operated by BACF, it was operated by BA mainline using a LHR based aircraft and crew.

This year BACF will once again operate the MAH service operated in previous years for TOM as well as the AGP service you mention. They will also operate the weekly service to PMI that was operated last year on behalf of Barrhead.

[BAladdy]

There have been a few rumours online that IAG are poised to make a order for a number of c-series aircraft with the aircraft being ordered for EI, VY and BA.

British Airways owner 'lined up to buy' C Series jets from Bombardier - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/british-airways-owner-lined-up-to-buy-c-series-jets-from-bombardier-35447950.html)

Would these aircraft have a longer range from LCY than the current E190SR's?

[SWBKCB]

Aren't Cityflyer limited to 100 seats by some sort of 'scope' agreement with BA mainline? When (if?) is the C-series being certified for LCY?

[Buster the Bear]

I read a while back that the C-Series can comfortably fly from London City to Dubai with 80+ passengers.

Odyssey are/were planning west coast of America.

[canberra97]

Although Odyssey Airlines made a big deal out their intended plans of operating the C Series out of LCY to the east coast of the USA and perhaps Dubai I've never seen anything concerning the flying to the west coast of the USA as I think that would be really pushing the limits of the aircraft even with 80 passengers.

[01475]

If you're going to Paris then I accept that which London airport you go from really matters.

If you're flying to the west cost of the US does saving a few mins on your trip within London really add up to so much in the big scheme of things? Is there not a risk that so many more things (like choice of flights / type of aircraft) could become more important?

[Buster the Bear]

Range from London City at fully payload CS100 2,200 NM

Range from Gatwick at fully payload CS300 3,300 NM

[BAladdy]

Anyone know what is the range of the E190SR's and E170's with a full payload?

[nguba]

BA CityFlyer celebrates 10 years in operation:

British Airways - A DECADE OF GROWTH FOR REGIONAL AIRLINE BUSINESS (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/News-1/8340?ref=Home)

And after 10 years of "London Airways" things are starting to go full circle again...

[Skipness One Echo]

BA CityFlyer, the wholly owned British Airways subsidiary, with its headquarters in Manchester, marks its 10th anniversary with good cause to celebrate – the number of customers using its services has more than quadrupled and aircraft numbers have doubled in the past 10 years.
Isn't this the same business that was a lot bigger ten years and one day ago when they offloaded all their non LCY regional ops to flybe. There were fleets of EMB-145s. Dash 8s, British Regional and Brymon crew, all flying under the banner of BA Connect, which brought BoB to the BA brand a decade before mainline (!)

[VickersVicount]

if i remember rightly BOB was a trial even then just for a few months

[Fairdealfrank]

BA CityFlyer celebrates 10 years in operation:

British Airways - A DECADE OF GROWTH FOR REGIONAL AIRLINE BUSINESS (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/News-1/8340?ref=Home)

And after 10 years of "London Airways" things are starting to go full circle again...

Often the way, the word "cyclical" comes to mind.


"London Airways"? or "London North America Airways" if you prefer.

[01475]

We obviously all know what regional airline means.

But members of the public reading that are going to be rather confused by an article that starts talking about regional airlines and then very quickly settles into talking about London!

Of course, I see why they've gone down the route they have. If Heathrow had a couple more runways I'm sure they would have tried a different route. Things being the way they are the most practical way for them to serve British regions would be with through Lingus...

[spook]

CS100 is going to be at LCY week of 20 March.

[richardwpprn]

CS100 is going to be at LCY week of 20 March.

Any flight details would be appreciated.

[br8fmr]

Cs100 C-GWYD FTV2 will be there for certification of LCY landing, so will probably have a random schedule. Swiss plan to start service to LCY 2nd Quarter 17 using CS100
It is still in its original brownish undercoat according to phots.
More details can be found by searching #cseries twitter or
top__cseriesbombardier on FliegerFaust (http://www.fliegerfaust.com/top__cseriesbombardier/?xrs=RebelMouse_tw)


or follow C-GWYD (or aircraft type BCS) from YMX Montreal on flight radar, flight takes about 6 hrs


IAG have denied any plans to purchase the CSeries

[richardwpprn]

Cs100 C-GWYD FTV2 will be there for certification of LCY landing, so will probably have a random schedule. .... C-GWYD (or aircraft type BCS) from YMX Montreal on flight radar, flight takes about 6 hrs...

Seems to have departed YUL this morning.

[br8fmr]

Cs100 C-GWYD FTV2 "The future of LCY" landing at YUL enroot to LCY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aVpZk-ul5E&sns=tw

[Fairdealfrank]

We obviously all know what regional airline means.

But members of the public reading that are going to be rather confused by an article that starts talking about regional airlines and then very quickly settles into talking about London!

Of course, I see why they've gone down the route they have. If Heathrow had a couple more runways I'm sure they would have tried a different route. Things being the way they are the most practical way for them to serve British regions would be with through Lingus...

There is no question that if LHR had 2 more rwys and had had them for some time things would be very different.

[richardwpprn]

It appears winter 17/18 flights are loaded for STN.

[pamann]

It appears winter 17/18 flights are loaded for STN.

Anything new or increased frequency on any routes?

[richardwpprn]

Have found sat flights to AGP and sun to FAO for Dec which weren't operated in Dec 16

[GroundBunnie]

Isn't this the same business that was a lot bigger ten years and one day ago when they offloaded all their non LCY regional ops to flybe. There were fleets of EMB-145s. Dash 8s, British Regional and Brymon crew, all flying under the banner of BA Connect, which brought BoB to the BA brand a decade before mainline (!)



S1E
Amazing! I was the last BA(CON) Station Manager at BRS, and had to make everyone FOH redundant, as you say, 10 years ago. Now they're back! I wonder for how long? GB

[bravoromeosierra]

S1E
Amazing! I was the last BA(CON) Station Manager at BRS, and had to make everyone FOH redundant, as you say, 10 years ago. Now they're back! I wonder for how long? GB

Probably "back" in the same way the Spice Girls are back... back but not really back.

[richardwpprn]

TAP are starting LIS-LCY, will CJ start a LCY-LIS night stopper with E170?

[nguba]

The summer weekend routes from MAN have launched this weekend.

Any word on how the new routes from regional airports are performing?

Both IAG and BA seem keen to explore further opportunities.

[canberra97]

TAP are starting LIS-LCY, will CJ start a LCY-LIS night stopper with E170?

It was actually announced on the 19 March 2017 but it seems all the travel related websites have announced it today as in 19 April 2017.

[Skipness One Echo]

It was actually announced on the 19 March 2017 but it seems all the travel related websites have announced it today as in 19 April 2017.
This is the 19th May....

The CFE fleet is the same size this year vs. last so should see good numbers with improved utilisation. They have pretty much maxed out at LCY, growth if it comes will be elsewhere I suspect.

[richardwpprn]

....Both IAG and BA seem keen to explore further opportunities.

My guess is weekend flights to TFS/ LPA/ ACE/ FNC and ski destinations are highly likely for winter 17/18

[LAX_LHR]

The summer weekend routes from MAN have launched this weekend.

Any word on how the new routes from regional airports are performing?

Both IAG and BA seem keen to explore further opportunities.

MAN reportedly off to a flyer.

LCY-MAN and MAN-IBZ had the business cabin full, Y was well patronaged. Not seen what today's loads were like.

Apparently the 'weekend base' will continue into winter with a mix of ski/beach and city routes.

[canberra97]

This is the 19th May....

The CFE fleet is the same size this year vs. last so should see good numbers with improved utilisation. They have pretty much maxed out at LCY, growth if it comes will be elsewhere I suspect.

My mistake I meant to type 19 May rather than 19 April.

[GCILover]

I so wish they would look into the possibility of SOU. Give flybe a kick up the arse and tap into untouched / under served destinations

[canberra97]

GCIlover

I whole heartedly agree with your comment.

[nguba]

Good to hear MAN is doing well.

SOU sounds like a good opportunity. There must be a very good Executive Club catchment in the area.

[canberra97]

Good to hear MAN is doing well.

SOU sounds like a good opportunity. There must be a very good Executive Club catchment in the area.

Yes including myself, I would love to see BA City Flyer adding SOU as I personally think they would do well.

[Skipness One Echo]

British Regional as a BA franchise used to own the SOU market after inheriting a decent operation built by Loganair. The wheel turns?

[Wycombe]

British Regional as a BA franchise used to own the SOU market

Yep, and used to fly 145's to the likes of BRU, FRA, ZRH, which SOU could really do with today :-(

[cornishsimon]

What's being described is BA buying up flybe and merging it into cityflyer ?


cs

[davidjohnson6]

Let us suppose BA do want to buy Flybe and merge it into Cityflyer
How would they make it profitable when Flybe are struggling ?
Why would it work now when BA were so keen to offload their operations at places like Birmingham and Manchester 10 years ago ?
How would one reconcile the pay structure of Cityflyer (based on higher London City fares) with the lower pay structure in Flybe that comes from lower fares at provincial airports without causing industrial strife or destroying profit margins ?
Finally do BA really want to be anything other than London Airways given that their focus is to be a premium airline for long haul which is dependent on a large number of business passengers willing to pay high fares that happen to be mainly in London and rare in the provinces ?

[HZ123]

DJ6 Your suggestion is not so far fetched considering IAG / BA held a 15 % share of Flybe until recently, it is possible they would buy the outfit back. I assume that previous Flybe debt issues have been resolved ?

It is not so much what BA want now but how IAG see the future? However, I cannot see it happening as to many of the Flybe destinations for onward travel are mainly with competitors in Europe.

[Skipness One Echo]

BA are not a "premium" airline for long haul, they're really, really not! They pretend to be at a branding level but the hard product is not stellar. BA are cherry picking parts of this market to keep CFE busy, they sold the rest for a good reason. BA, like all big companies have a certain way of doing things. One of their fortes is losing money on anything outside of London. They're quite old fashioned and certainly not an agile competitor, they don't have the hunger of an EZY or FR to make an impact and carve out a market.

[richardwpprn]

MAN reportedly off to a flyer......

.....Apparently the 'weekend base' will continue into winter with a mix of ski/beach and city routes.

It'll be interesting to see if Friday will be part of the MAN weekend in the winter.

[davidjohnson6]

HZ123 + Skipness - my post was in response to cs, trying to make the point that there are some major reasons as to why BA would not want Flybe and would find any potential acquisition of Flybe highly problematic, particularly when there are far bigger fish with greater benefit (eg Finnair) to be considered for acquisition instead

[richardwpprn]

CJ flights to and from LCY today seem to be generally OK without severe delays, apart from a departure to TXL, CJ will probably be quite pleased with the first weekend higher utilisation operation from a schedule perspective.

[cornishsimon]

And my post was in response to various posts about what BA used to be in the regional market.


cs

[richardwpprn]

Looks like LCY-MAN-LCY is a Friday and Sunday lunchtime service in winter starting 15 December.

[WHBM]

BA got the 15% shareholding in Flybe in the transfer of regional routes, and aircraft, to them when they let go of the regions.

Long ago this shareholding were downvalued in the BA books to £1. Keeping them let them have a say in the management, I think it got them a seat on the board, but I don't believe Flybe paid a dividend all the time that the shares were held.

[BAladdy]

Looks like LCY-MAN-LCY is a Friday and Sunday lunchtime service in winter starting 15 December.

BACF will operate a weekly ski charter flight on a Sunday to from MAN to CMF. Does anyone know if BACF are operating any charter flights ex MAN on the Saturday

BA4511 MAN 07:45 CMF 10:45 E90 7
BA4512 CMF 11:35 MAN 12:40 E90 7

[LAX_LHR]

They will also run a scheduled Chambery on Saturday morning BAladdy. Times and flight numbers in the MAN thread.

[richardwpprn]

Looking for winter 18 and there seems to be a late arrival at LCY from GVA on Sunday

BA2286 GVA LCY 20:40 21:15

is this a change from last year?

[richardwpprn]

Press release for the MAN ski season flights http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8651?ref=HeroStory

[AvGeek1]

New routes announced from London City to Prague, Reykjavik (winter seasonal) & Paris-Orly (replacing Heathrow-Paris Orly flights)

[VickersVicount]

when will this reykjavik bubble burst?

[AirportPlanner1]

BA will have a real advantage though by taking you straight into the city (RKV) rather than to KEF like everyone else. Pax will love it, they'll be in their hotels 25 mins after touchdown.

[EastMids]

BA will have a real advantage though by taking you straight into the city (RKV) rather than to KEF like everyone else. Pax will love it, they'll be in their hotels 25 mins after touchdown.

BA online timetable shows KEF for the CityFlyer flights

[Richard Taylor]

when will this reykjavik bubble burst?

Katla.... :E

[AirportPlanner1]

BA online timetable shows KEF for the CityFlyer flights

I stand corrected. I was told RKV, and it was listed on the airport's wiki page when I looked up the runway length (now removed). Interestingly I believe both the E170 and 190 could operate from there and they can handle international services. Does anyone know if there are any restrictions at RKV - it could have been an interesting opportunity.

[BAladdy]

New routes schedules now fully loaded on BA.com

Paris Orly - 17 x Weekly

BA8751 LCY 08:35 ORY 10:55 E70 x7
BA8755 LCY 16:30 ORY 18:50 E70 x67
BA8757 LCY 20:20 ORY 22:40 E70 x6

BA8752 ORY 07:45 LCY 08:05 E70 x7
BA8754 ORY 11:40 LCY 12:00 E70 x67
BA8754 ORY 14:00 LCY 14:20 E70 7
BA8758 ORY 19:30 LCY 19:50 E70 x67

Prague - 6 x Weekly

BA7339 LCY 11:15 PRG 14:10 E90 x67
BA7339 LCY 15:15 PRG 18:10 E70 7

BA7338 PRG 14:50 LCY 15:45 E90 x67
BA7338 PRG 18:50 LCY 19:45 E70 7

Reykjavik - 2 x Weekly

BA2228 LCY 09:10 KEF 12:30 E90 4
BA2228 LCY 13:00 KEF 16:20 E90 7

BA2229 KEF 13:15 LCY 16:25 E90 4
BA2229 KEF 17:05 LCY 20:15 E90 7

[Wycombe]

Fairly sure Atlantic operate their 319's out of RKV on a regular basis.

[EI-BUD]

Wycombe,
You are quite right, they do.

[davidjohnson6]

Reykjavik to London is more than twice as far as Reykjavik to the Faeroe Islands.
Unlike Keflavik (over 3,000 metres), Reykjavik's longest runway is not very long (1,567 metres)

I don't have access to performance data, but would London to RKV really be feasible on a consistent basis with very few diverts to Keflavik, especially given that Iceland is known for sometimes getting some pretty lousy weather ? Without wishing to disrepect anyone or their abilities, I suspect also that pilots based in the Faeroe Islands are by necessity perhaps more used to dealing with a short runway in really bad weather (Vagar) compared to those working at BACF

[TourOpProduct]

To the best of my knowledge the only airlines with rights to operate directly into Reykjavik City (Domestic) airport are Air Iceland Connect and Atlantic Airways, the former in DH8 and later 319's. I believe the Atlantic Airways flights from Vagar have now ceased and Air Icelands only international flights from there are to Greenland. The terminal facilities at RKV are basic, I was amazed that you don't have to pass through security (neither hold baggage) for a domestic flight.

Still delighted to see KEF direct from LCY, the demand for Iceland remain huge and rightfully so, it's one of the most awe inspiring countries in Europe

[BAladdy]

LCY-DUS will increase to up to 4 x daily for W17

[willy wombat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Icelandair 727 operate into RKV from GLA/CPH/LHR in the 60s and 70s? RKV runway shorter than KEF but longer than LCY.

[richardwpprn]

Re BA8751 LCY 08:35 ORY 10:55 E70 x7 on Saturdays, will the aircraft park at ORY until the return flight on Sunday?

[AirportPlanner1]

Couldn't it comfortably get back to LCY on those timings - say 11:35/11:55? If not perhaps it'll join the increasing number of routes to STN.

[BAladdy]

Or maybe it could operate ORY/STN early Saturday afternoon and operate from STN before returning to ORY on the Sunday

[virginblue]

What market would such timings serve?

[WHBM]

Possibly gone under the radar is the great increase in holiday flights Cityflyer's Embraer fleet are making this summer. I reckon they did 130 such round trips last week, a combination of schedules and charters, some from unlikely starting points such as Humberside or Isle of Man. Over 30 round trips to Ibiza, the most popular point, in a week, almost as many to Palma. There's even a classic overnighter late Friday departure from LCY to Malaga that rolls back just as they reopen on Saturday morning. It's a lot more extensive than just covering the weekend LCY closure time.

Not particularly what the crews (especially cabin) signed up for, is it ? :)

[WHBM]

Reykjavik ... Without wishing to disrepect anyone or their abilities, I suspect also that pilots based in the Faeroe Islands are by necessity perhaps more used to dealing with a short runway in really bad weather (Vagar) compared to those working at BACF
I'm sure you didn't mean to disrespect anyone, but a pilot group based at LCY, of all places, is really not one to make short runway comments about.

I recall being on a CityJet 146 which surprisingly departed for LCY from Dublin from the old short northern runway 29, now closed, which I had always regarded as just for small GA. When I looked it up, it was actually longer than LCY ...

[inOban]

Possibly gone under the radar is the great increase in holiday flights Cityflyer's Embraer fleet are making this summer. I reckon they did 130 such round trips last week, a combination of schedules and charters, some from unlikely starting points such as Humberside or Isle of Man. Over 30 round trips to Ibiza, the most popular point, in a week, almost as many to Palma. There's even a classic overnighter late Friday departure from LCY to Malaga that rolls back just as they reopen on Saturday morning. It's a lot more extensive than just covering the weekend LCY closure time.

Not particularly what the crews (especially cabin) signed up for, is it ? :)
There are normally three which overnight in EDI for the 06.30, 7.05 and 7.35(FX) services to LCY. Only one is used for holiday flights - a Fri am rotation, two Saturday ones and a Sunday am. The other Sun rotation uses the plane which arrives from Zurich on Saturday morning, transfers empty to IOM for a rotation from there, and returns to EDI in the evening. So the EDI crews won't be working every w/e.