BA Cityflyer

[Lord Flashheart]

Does anyone know how many crews CF are operating per aeroplane?

[towser]

Flasheart; Not enough!! I believe its under 4 crews per aircraft.

[JFK2LA]

Hi

Is there anybody out there who is cabin crew who can give me a few pointers about rosters, take home pay etc. Please pm me if you wouldn't mind. Thank you

[gilbertmchris]

If you guys are so short of crews, any rumours of recruitment soon?
Sounds like the perfect job to me, City is a great little airport, london is fun. Touring rosters, charters, good staff travel and the Embraer to fly! Perhaps not perfect for families or older people but I cant see why a young single captain would ever leave.
Grass is always greener I suppose but I know lots of people who would kill for a CF job.

[ATP_Al]

Yeah I think you already said that Chris!

[gilbertmchris]

haha, hey Al. Yep repeating myself now. Been repeating ourselves for years!

[Deep and fast]

Anyone know how many there are in the hold pool?

D and F :8

[aeulad]

Wikipedia, which is hardly an authority is saying about loads of new BA CF routes from LHR to the likes of Exeter and Leeds!

It can't be true??

Regards

Mike

[DutchBird-757]

A. It's indeed not a reliable source.
B. It has been deleted from the page.
C. The Unions would not have allowed it, not in a million years. (either LHR or even LGW)
D. No aircraft and crew to do it anyway.

If it had been from LGW I would have given them a 0.01% credibility rating. But even that would have had major implications. Don't even mention LHR. You hardly get any acknowledgement going through LHR as pos crew anyway. As we're not 'real' BA. Yet we do the more challenging flying...:ugh:

[HeliCraig]

DB - do the 'real' BA crew flying the A318 out of your back yard play nicely? :O

I was talking to a 'real' BA Captain (short haul) from LHR a month or so ago about BACF and he was very complimentary and a little bit jealous of your new toys! Must just be some stuck up lot. :ok:

[marlowe]

The JFK crews dont even use the official staff search at LCY so does that answer your question?

[turnipgreen]

'I have done aircraft steps at Gate 2 to hand on a taxi door outside in less than 60 seconds (I actually stopwatched it).

WHBM - You have beaten my record. I had done it in 90 seconds so hats off to you!

[Brian_W]

'touch and go' in a 190 @ LCY ( with PAX ) ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmXiwKWU3N

[CabinCrewe]

YT link Doesnt work, perhaps you mean this...
YouTube - Durchstarten London City - Flying into London City Airport and Go-Around (EGLC) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmXiwKWU3N4)

[Atreyu]

No big deal, go around and have another try! :cool:

Atreyu:ok:

[WHBM]

Looks like it was touchdown after the lights.

[RB311]

Just seen an advert on the telly for british airways flights to edinburgh using the brand new fleet of aircraft from London City Airport, accompanied by pictures of said new shiny aircraft....

[e-jet190]

Can anyone confirm that CF are planning a new route from Fairoaks to LCY, so I can get to work ?

[BAladdy]

BACF have delayed the launch of their new CPH service to 21st September.

The route was due to start on 12th Sept.

Anybody know the reason for the delay??

[DutchBird-757]

News to me. I figure that it will be due to low crew levels. Lot's of (line) training going on right now, including new skippers. So they may need those cause the PMI/IBZ are still operating as well.

[gilbertmchris]

Line training? Have you guys been recruiting or just upgrades?

C

[DutchBird-757]

No new entries. New skippers are all (3) f/o's getting command upgrade. Everyone should be linechecked I reckon by mid OCT.

[Rusland 17]

Just seen an advert on the telly for british airways flights to edinburgh using the brand new fleet of aircraft from London City Airport, accompanied by pictures of said new shiny aircraft....I thought I was going to be flying on one of the "new shiny aircraft" from Zurich to London City, too, but turned up at the gate to find that the flight was being operated by some charter outfit called Titan Airways on BA Cityflyer's behalf. Packed plane, no Club Europe seating, no cabin trolleys permitted, no apology, no compensation. It'll be Swiss for me next time.

[DutchBird-757]

I'm sorry, and with all due respect, but that's an unnessasary comment. What would you rather have? Being put on the next BA flight a couple hours later or go on/close to scheduele but on a different plane?

The bottom line is that BA made a big effort, also financially, in getting you to London asap. They could have just taken the easy option and re-booked you and left it at that. But purely the fact that they wet-leased an aircraft to get you all home shows commitment to their operation/promise. :D

Yes it's not a shiney new Embraer but the bottom line is that you get from A to B on scheduele. Over the past weeks I've seen numerous Swiss cancellations due to tech aircraft. That rarely happened but it seems more common nowadays. So to be honest, I wouldn't put my money on Swiss nowadays.

I hope you still re-consider flying BA next time and can also see the effort being made by BA to get you home.

P.S. I believe the reason behind subcontracting Titan was that some crewmembers (incl stanby crew) went sick.

[ajamieson]

I'm sorry but that's an unnessasary comment. What would you rather have? ...the bottom line is that you get from A to B on scheduele.
Oh, come on. BA clearly sells itself during the booking process as a product defined by service and comfort as well as schedule. The fact that BACF cannot get its own act together to have enough of its own aircraft and crews to provide the promised (and paid for) service is an inexcusable failure and to fall back on 'well, we got you there' beggars belief.

But I do agree with your comment about Swiss. Lamentable punctuality in my experience, stressful (mis)connections in ZRH and inflexible onboard service. Sounds like these carriers are as bad as each other...

[DutchBird-757]

Oh, come on. BA clearly sells itself during the booking process as a product defined by service and comfort as well as schedule. The fact that BACF cannot get its own act together to have enough of its own aircraft and crews to provide the promised (and paid for) service is an inexcusable failure and to fall back on 'well, we got you there' beggars belief.



We clearly have a different view on it. For me the bottom line is always the scheduele.

[Lord Molton Brown]

Rusland 17

I can see your point and also DB 757's. I assume you bought a Club Europe seat, in which case you ought to be entitled to a refund or some compensation, however if you bought a Traveller ticket, well, at least BACF got you to your destination, albeit by another carrier, but you got there. You refer to Titan as being some charter outfit, I can assure you, that they well respected in the business.

BACF does indeed have a brand new modern, reliable fleet of e-Jets, whether you choose to use them is up to you and frankly I could not care one bit, who you fly with, but I get irritated by posts such as yours. I would suggest you write to BACF, if you have not already done so.

I would like to add that I am not empoyed by any BA company or Titan, so I have no interest in either company.

Molton Brown

[airferries]

I see CJ8711 from EDI was diverted this morning, persumably to STN. It was a bit foggy but everything else got into LCY. Is there another reason for the diversion?

[WHBM]

I see CJ8711 from EDI was diverted this morning, persumably to STN. It was a bit foggy but everything else got into LCY. Is there another reason for the diversion?
I live about 1 nm from City, and can tell you there must have been at least 4 or 5 missed approaches between 0700 and 0900 this morning, passing overhead my house. Always very distinctive. Couldn't see them because the base was right down at decision height and fluctuating wind as well. Not quite sure where the "everything else got in" comes from.

[airferries]

Well, from a certain flight tracking website I can see only two diversions, both BA Cityflyer Embraer 190s from EDI.
The diversions caused numerous delays to BA Cityflyer's schedule today. Could the ILS be upgraded from CAT I? I'm sure the airlines and passengers alike would appreciate it if it was.

[PAPI-74]

With a 1200 fpm ROD on the approach - unlikely. If the wind allows, Runway 09 can be used allowing a lower minima (430') but it is still a bit off of a CAT I.

[WHBM]

Well I can tell you that by the engine noise a couple of the missed approaches at least were propeller aircraft. Perhaps your "certain flight tracking website" isn't quite up to commercial aviation standards.

[airferries]

Or perhaps the propeller aircraft landed on a second approach. I would be appreciative if anyone had the figures for how many diversions there were from LCY this morning. But judging from the tone of WHBM, mabye I should just wait until the CAA statistics are released.

[dhc83driver]

several missed approaches by everyone including emb due to cloud base being at minima. Some got in on the second go but massive delays in the local area with lots of aircraft trying to get in. Thames was very busy!. Sometimes you can only hold for so long!. some disruption and titan came in to help later to recover the schedule. (Not many other airlines doing that to keep there passengers flying!)

[Expressflight]

On the matter of LCY diversions, I doubt many will use SEN until January as their ILS is withdrawn till then due to work on their runway extension.

[frankdjs]

Is BA still having issues today? Just saw a Titan 146 on final approach, as I was walking east from CW to Wapping.

Was around 11:00hr

[RJ100]

Something the rumour mill at BACF has been talking about for the past few months.

BA eyes E-190 options

British Airways (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/british%20airways.html) is looking at exercising options for Embraer (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/embraer.html) E-190s to meet growing demand for services at London City Airport.
BA director of strategy Robert Boyle says the last of 11 E-Jets it ordered in late 2008 for its CityFlyer unit will be delivered in November and BA has an imminent deadline in exercising options. The original deal with Embraer included six E-170s and five E-190s plus options for three E-190s.
Currently CityFlyer operates six 76-seat E-170s and four 98-seat E-190s. All of the E-190s have been received this year.
"We got one more [delivery] in November and then after that we have some options," Boyle says. "We're looking at the question now. We haven't quite finalised it yet."
He says the CityFlyer E-Jet operation is "going well" and a fleet of more than 11 aircraft may be required given current market conditions. "It's a market that is very focused on the financial market so it took a big hit in the credit crunch but it's really bouncing back now," Boyle says.
BA's London City operation consists of CityFlyer E-Jets on European routes and two mainline A318s which are used on the all-business class service to New York. CityFlyer previously operated BAE Systems Avro (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/avro.html) RJs but retired the last of the type in July.
Boyle says while the New York service which was launched last year is doing well there is currently no consideration of expanding the A318 (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/airbus%20a318.html) London City operation to include more routes. "I don't see anything imminent there," he says.
:D

[Leading_Edge_190]

Hi Guy's,

I noticed a few pages back people talking about training and people being upgraded and recieving their command. Does anyone know if their is likely to be any FO recruitment in the near future?

Any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated. I have a UK JAA ATPL with 1000+ on the Ejet and my fingers firmly crossed hoping that cityflyer will need so additional hands soon.


Cheers and safe flying to all :ok:

[BAladdy]

Have heard that an announcement is to be expected by December at the latest.

I know it has only been operating for a week or so but does anyone know how well the CPH route is doing??.

[dhc83driver]

CPH is running and that`s a start, it normally takes a good few months for the loads to start picking up. Its all about proving it runs reliably to attract the business

I just hope they get more crew if we get the extra airframes!

[BAladdy]

I would think any order for additional frames would also see a recruitment drive for flight and cabin crew.

When it comes to the CPH route, clearly QI think that BACF are going to do well. They announced that they would drop there 2 x daily CPH flights before BACF even started.

Finally does anyone know if a full E-Jet would be able to fly non stop LCY-VCE?.

[WHBM]

Finally does anyone know if a full E-Jet would be able to fly non stop LCY-VCE?.
Who would want to fly from LCY to Venice ? It's mainly a tourist destination with little business traffic, and not a financial industry centre. Even Milan, Italy's commercial and financial centre, served from LCY by Cityjet, only just hangs on and has had several stops and restarts over time. The fact that the principal BA service to Venice is from Gatwick (thrice daily), not Heathrow (single daily A319), is a bit of a clue about yields there.

[DutchBird-757]

The CPH is off to a flying start. Regarding the VCE question. A E170 could do VCE with a full payload year round. It's about 700nm against 800nm for the current MAD ex LCY. I would expect any new airframes to be used to accomodate next years summer charter program and a couple of new leisure destinations. Similar to the current PMI and IBZ.

Expect the official airframe announcement on NOV 22nd latest when 'YN' gets handed over to BACF. If my maths are correct, that will be E-Jet c/n nbr# 700 and most propably will recieve a special sticker to celebrate it.

[BAladdy]

VCE- Leisure cruise pax. Thats who. BA this year have been running charters on behalf of a cruise line from LHR. LCY to VCE would offer a alternative that would be very popular.

BACF have shown that there is a leisure market available from LCY not just a business one.

[WHBM]

There have actually been services from LCY to Venice before. Baboo started off advertising their Geneva service as a through plane to Venice, that didn't last, but going back to the earliest days of jet operations at LCY, the Conti-Flug (remember them ?) 146 service to Berlin Tempelhof also was advertised as a through service to Venice.

Both these routes were characterised by virtually no bookings for the through service.

[CabinCrewe]

Mmm let me think, a direct service on BA in a new aircraft or a "through" service on a minor airline via Germany....now I wonder why bookings werent great. Watch BA romp it home....

[Atreyu]

Hello Ladies n Gents, anyone know what this 'crew forum' is about on the roster? Maybe an announcement re options?

Atreyu

[towser]

Its not on my roster! Whats the date?

[DutchBird-757]

I've heard several people talk about it and nobody seems to know what it is? It's about a good 2hrs isn't it? Hmmm....let me know what you guys get told so the rest of us knows as well. :)

[Atreyu]

I'm told it's small groups, mixed between flight crew and cabin crew, I guess it's a 'hows it going' kinda forum, not announcing any big plans.

Atreyu:ok:

[nospeedrestriction9]

...CPH off to a flying start? How did you work that one out. I have flown on it on a number of occasions and not counted more than 20 passengers.

I understand the arguement that the route takes time to build but surely this is burning money the company could do without. Is the market really there?

[dhc83driver]

Weekend CPH fairly full, loads are about standard for a new route, give it six months and the loads will be up. It takes 6 months to a year to get it established.

[DutchBird-757]

Obviously you'll get low numbers initially. But it's doing well. A random exapmple, 4 flights in 2 days with all a 100% l/f. Can't call that bad...

[BAladdy]

A random exapmple, 4 flights in 2 days with all a 100% l/f. Can't call that bad...That is not bad at all.... Maybe if that kind of demand continues through the Winter then BACF may add a 3rd daily flight. On those days are the loads in Club quite good?.

British Airways (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/british%20airways.html) is looking at exercising options for Embraer (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/embraer.html) E-190s to meet growing demand for services at London City Airport.
BA director of strategy Robert Boyle says the last of 11 E-Jets it ordered in late 2008 for its CityFlyer unit will be delivered in November and BA has an imminent deadline in exercising options.
What is the earliest BACF could receive the new E190's if they decided to exercise the options ?. Can one, two or even all 3 options be converted from E190's to E170's?.

[DutchBird-757]

I wonder what they will do. I wasn't a one off for sure.

The three options are for E190's only. The other batch of 15 purchase rights can be any aircraft in the family.

[MikeAlphaTangoTango]

Two more E190 for S11

BA CityFlyer firms up two Embraer 190 options (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/10/19/348625/ba-cityflyer-firms-up-two-embraer-190-options.html)

[DutchBird-757]

Great news! Delivery dates April and June and the 2nd E190 is to be based at EDI. Due to the early ARN service start it will be operated by the spare aircraft until 'YO' comes online in April. More news to follow!

[Captain Planet]

Does anybody know how many guys City Flyer are looking for?

CP.

[towser]

If we go on roughly 4 crews per aircraft then I would suggest 8 capts and 8 fo's. They are planning on running 3 courses however and we usually have 8 people on a course. Some capts posistions will be filled internally thereby increasing the number of fo's required.

[BAladdy]

Titan Airways 146 registation G-ZAPO seems to have been operating a few services on behalf of BACF recently. The dates in question are 13th, 15th, 18th. 19th and today (20th). Does anyone know the reason for this?. Is it due to one or more of BACF's e-jets currently out of service??.

Great news! Delivery dates April and June and the 2nd E190 is to be based at EDI. Due to the early ARN service start it will be operated by the spare aircraft until 'YO' comes online in April. More news to follow!

Great news about the ARN route. It will be interesting to see what if any new routes BACF launch during S11.

[RJ100]

One Embraer was in STN having a yearly check.. Should be out now. Another stuck in NCE after a vey severe lightening strike. No spare aircraft in the fleet at the moment so anything that takes an aircraft off the line impacts our operation at the moment.

[DutchBird-757]

I guess we'll see more of Titan between 9th jan and the delivery of 'YO'. The affected 190 should come back to STN today.

[Captain Planet]

Thanks for the reply towser.

CP.

[Jamezon]

Trivial I know but can anyone tell me what, if any catering/bar service is offered as inclusive in economy on LCY-GLA route? Thanks.

[towser]

If early morning you'll get a hot breakfast, after that its snacks (pretzels, biscuits , savoury snack) and full bar and tea/coffee.

[firstchoice7e7]

re the hot breakfast , is that flights before 9am, even at the weekend?

[BAladdy]

re the hot breakfast , is that flights before 9am, even at the weekend? Monday to Sunday : Full Hot breakfast is served on all BA flights from LHR/LGW or LCY to EDI, GLA and ABZ that depart between 05:00 and 09:59.

BACF serve Breakfast on the following flights.

ex EDI:

BA8701 LCY (Mon-Fri)
BA8711 LCY (Mon-Fri)
BA8703 LCY (Mon-Sat)

ex GLA

BA8721 LCY (Mon-Thu)
BA8723 LCY (Mon-Fri)

ex LCY

BA8700 EDI (Mon-Fri)
BA8702 EDI (Mon-Fri)
BA8722 GLA (Mon-Fri)
BA8708 EDI (Sat)

[RJ100]

Are flights at weekends before 9am different than those M-F?

[marlowe]

Well there are no flights before 9am on a sunday in or out of LCY.

[firstchoice7e7]

BAladdy : Thanks for the info

RJ100 : travelling this Saturday am LCY-EDI , wanted to know if there would be a bite to eat onboard or if i should buy at LCY. It crossed my mind that as weekend travellers would more likely be Leisure than Business, breakfast would not be served (a la Virgin trains 1st class, no breakfast at the weekend)

[towser]

As far as I'm aware if its before 9am you get a breakfast irrespective of the day of the week.

[BAladdy]

According to the timetable on BA.COM it appears that the MAD service is being upgraded from a E70 to a E90 once the next E90 is delivered in Nov.

Does anyone know if the E90 will be weight restricted??

Personally I thought the E90 would be used to add capacity to the double daily service to CPH.

It also appears that BACF have started to work on there S11 timetable.

During S11: (Based on JUL/AUG timetable - No Doubt subject to Change)

Saturday EDI-LCY service dropped

New Saturday GLA-LCY flight dep LCY 09:30

Friday LCY-PMI flight departs LCY 06:40 but does not arrive back at LCY until 19:25. Flight appears to operate LCY-PMI-GLA-PMI-LCY.

Saturday ZRH-LCY flight retimed to depart 07:00 and arrive 07:40.

S11

I know that the timetable is likely to change between now and next summer.

BACF have hinted that they may announce more new routes. Has anyone heard if these new routes will be more leisure routes??

I think that the MAD route is one that could still be developed. Pax numbers would increase if they just added a Sunday evening MAD-LCY flight. I know of a number of pax who have wanted to use the LCY-MAD route to take a weekend break but have instead travelled LHR-MAD because they need to return on a Sunday night.

[dhc83driver]

The 190 has better winter perf than the 170, wet runway and ice on the 170 and you loose a few pax. 190 is alot better. That bigger wing makes a big difference.

[DutchBird-757]

No surprise they want the big one to operate the MAD, especially with the IB codeshare in full swing. Also the E190 is not weight restricted on the MAD, unlike the E170 can be sometimes.

Nothing on the new route(s). It was mentioned a while ago they were looking at more leisure destinations. But I wouldn't put my money on it.

The question is; can the E190 do the 1050nm to HEL with a good payload all year round? It's only 200nm further than CPH and that's no issue. Add a codeshare with AY to the mix and who knows.

*Note - pure speculation on my part. It just seems BA is very Scandinavia focussed lately.*

[Cyrano]

The question is; can the E190 do the 1050nm to HEL with a good payload all year round? It's only 200nm further than CPH and that's no issue.

Er...what routing did you have in mind? ;) Here's (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LCY-CPH%2CLCY-HEL&MS=wls&DU=nm) the Great Circle comparison: 513 nm vs 985 nm. Did you mean ARN instead of CPH?

[biggles34]

Does anyone know what the selection day entails?

Many thanks
Biggles34

[DutchBird-757]

Sorry, I meant ARN indeed. Thanks Cyrano. It was just a purely speculative question.

[Drakestream]

So what is the liklihood of HEL from LCY? It doesn't strike me as being a prime business route. I would imagine a Berlin flight or similar would be higher up the list?

[DutchBird-757]

Nothing. Purely me who wants to go to Helsinki.

[towser]

I believe Finnair looked at HEL-LCY on the E190 and whilst it works inbound to LCY it was very restricted outbound around the order of 40-50 pax I believe. So I would think its unlikely.

[frankdjs]

..problem not sorted by this morning and my flight to PMI was finally operated by 170 (LCYH). No load issues as there were only 14 PAX!!

Landed with 90 min delay, which was not to bad.

[lcyboy]

r.e. G-LCYK
Aircraft was serviceable iaw MEL but could not fly due to operating restrictions from defect. Stuck waiting for spares.....................

[jerhippo]

I wonder if BA City Flyer would ever consider doing a LCY-JER to fill the gap left by City-Jet?

[cornishsimon]

LCY-JER on a E170 ?
short little hop twice a day, existing facilities at JER to make use of !

could be worth a pop, but then again, could the airframe be made better use of elsewhere?

personally i dont see why they couldnt operate some routes ex EDI & GLA that are scheduled and not charter to places other than LCY ?

E170 ex GLA & EDI to say MAN, JER, DUB ?

cs

[Haven't a clue]

E170 LCY-IOM, please? Pretty please?

Seriously though we would like these routes. But they have to pay, and I'm sure cleverer people than me have had the abacus out and decided no.

[WHBM]

VLM, becoming Cityjet, ran F50s to both Jersey and the Isle of Man, and didn't get enough business to continue with them.

If you can't get enough business to cover your costs with a 50-seat, 20 year old, less than $1m turboprop, I wonder how one can hope to do well with a fleet whose smallest unit is a $35m new Embraer 170.

[jerboy]

I think LCY-JER with BA would do very well. A lot of Jersey locals are very very loyal to BA and there is a high proportion of Gold/Silver Exec card holders knocking around. And as we know... points mean prizes. This loyalty was VG's (and BD's on JER-LHR) biggest disadvantage.

LGW has remained strong over the past couple of years, even with the increase in a/c size from 735 to 734 (an extra 40ish seats per flight), and with BE upping rotations to 7 per day.

With many businessmen commuting several times a week to the City, there is in my opinion a potential to shift some of this business to LCY, even at the expense of an LGW rotation perhaps. Of course it all comes down to the bottom line, which I doubt any of us would be privy enough to comment meaningfully on.

Re potential other BACF routes: I don't think JER-EDI/GLA would have sustain a high enough load, but MAN perhaps would. When BACX/BACON operated JER-MAN it was rare to see a flight without a load in the high 40's even on those knackered old Dash 8-300s. However this would mean a break away from BACF's current business model (i.e. LCY routes only), and would mean treading on BE's toes somewhat. If only they would!!

[goerring]

When do BA renew the Embraer leases ?

Bombardier vice-president of commercial aircraft programmes Ben Boehm says that the airframer "can create an airplane" for Gulf Air, one that deploys "a lightweight business configuration" and could fly "all the way to London City from Bahrain". He adds: "That's a real need that they have."

Dubai night stop anyone?

[BAladdy]

Cityjet's 3 year old agreement with Scot Airways end on the 31st December.

From the 31st December WX will cut the frequency of it's EDI service in half from up to 6 to 3 x daily. This is there new timetable:

AF5156 EDI 06:25 LCY 07:55 AR8 5
AF5158 EDI 07:00 LCY 08:30 AR8 x567
AF5160 EDI 08:30 LCY 10:00 AR8 6
AF5162 EDI 11:05 LCY 10:35 AR8 x567
AF5166 EDI 16:45 LCY 18:15 AR8 x67

AF5159 LCY 09:00 EDI 10:25 AR8 x567
AF5161 LCY 14:40 EDI 16:05 AR8 x67
AF5167 LCY 18:45 EDI 20:15 AR8 x67
AF5169 LCY 20:35 EDI 21:55 AR8 7

The times aren't good. Hopefully BACF will add more flights.

If they wanted to set up a JER or IOM route, they could always lease some D328's from Scot Airways??.

If they leased all 5 Scot Airways aircraft they could use them to add frequency to EDI , a early LCY-GLA flight and during the day to AMS.

could fly "all the way to London City from Bahrain

From BAH to LCY...... It's all in the wording.

BA could operate the A318 from BAH to LCY direct. It will have to be a very light aircraft to fly from LCY-BAH direct.

[virginblue]

Wasn't VLM's LCY-JER/IOM more or less a parking exercise, with the aircraft operating to the islands after early morning cross-channel runs at off-peak times and spending hours on the round at IOM and JER before being brought back to LCY on the afternoon.

That said, flight timings were not exactly great and did, of course, not allow day returns. However, it must be said that VLM initially operated like three flights a day to JER and could not make them work. I am not sure if that was all because of their non-alignment to one of the alliances (they have done nicely for 15 years on many LCY routes)

[northloughshore]

Sorry to interrupt, can anybody tell me what passenger classes CityFlyer operate out of LCY?

[dhc83driver]

Domestic, single cabin Euro traveller.

European duel cabin club Europe / Euro traveller.

seating 2/2

All seats very large and roomy. More space than an Airbus with a bigger seat pitch.

[Saab2000 Freak]

virginblue

One of the main reasons VLM's LCY-JER never worked is due to the fact there are a large number of JER travellers that hold BA gold cards, hence BA was always the airline of preference when travelling to London. I believe that JEA operated relatively successfully prior to this in the baby Dash.

If BACF decided to run say a LCY-JER-LCY or even a LCY-GCI-JER-LCY twice a day I'm sure they could be highly successful given the strong loyalty (in JER) to BA, in GCI's case BA haven't operated there for what 8/9 years, but a legacy carrier would be welcomed I'm sure.

[DutchBird-757]

BA Cityflyer's latest E190, G-LCYN, is to be handed over at tonight's ceremony at the factory in Brazil.

The aircraft will be the 700th E-Jet delivered and it will wear 2 special stickers to celebrate this occasion. The aircraft will arrive in the UK on the 10NOV.

Photo here: Aero World News Photos (http://www.aeroworldnews.com.br/foto_detalhe.php?codigo=7947)

[cornishsimon]

looking good!!!!

[LD12986]

BA management were very upbeat about the peformance of BACF when the half year results were announced last week. Yields are good and in order to allow LHR long-haul to grow, some short-haul capacity will have to move from LHR to LCY. Didn't realise that BA had 16 options remaining for the E-190!

[DutchBird-757]

That's good news. There's one outstanding E190 option left and 15 purchase rights for whatever they want. (E170/190) What else was said?

[BAladdy]

As previously posted, BACF will increase there charter operations during the S11 season.

Below is a list of flights BACF will operate during the peak S11 timetable. Some flight numbers are not yet assigned. Further changes are expected.

FRIDAY

Aircraft 1
BA4515 GLA 06:00 MAH 10:00
BA4516 MAH 10:50 GLA 12:50

Aircraft 2
BA4518 PMI 10:40 GLA 12:40
BA4517 GLA 13:25 PMI 17:25
+++ a/c ops LCY-PMI-GLA-PMI-LCY++++

SATURDAY

Aircraft 1
BA4511 EDI 06:00 IBZ 10:10
BA4520 IBZ 10:55 NCL 12:55
BA4519 NCL 14:00 IBZ 18:00
BA4512 IBZ 18:50 EDI 21:00

Aircraft 2
BA4525 GLA 07:00 AGP 11:10
BA45xx AGP 12:00 ABZ 14:20
BA45xx ABZ 15:00 AGP 19:25
BA4526 AGP 20:05 GLA 22:20

Aircraft 3
BA4521 GLA 07:40 PMI 11:40
BA45xx PMI 12:20 ABZ 14:30
BA45xx ABZ 15:10 PMI 19:25
BA4522 PMI 20:05 GLA 22:05

Aircraft 4
BA4513 EDI 11:00 MAN a 11:55 MAN d 12:40 CAG 16:40
BA4514 CAG 17:30 MANa 19:30 MANd 20:05 EDI 21:00

Aircraft 5
BA4527 GLA 14:55 ALC 19:00
BA4528 ALC 20:00 GLA 22:15

SUNDAY

Aircraft 1
BA4535 GLA 05:35 IBZ 09:45
BA4536 IBZ 10:25 GLA 12:35

Aircraft 2
BA4533 GLA 05:45 AGP 10:10
BA4534 AGP 10:50 GLA 13:15

Aircraft 3
BA4531 GLA 06:00 PMI 10:00
BA4532 PMI 10:40 GLA 12:40

Aircraft 4
BA45xx GLA 06:30 FAO 09:40
BA45xx FAO 10:20 GLA 13:30

Aircraft 5
BA4537 EDI 07:00 PMI 11:00
BA4538 PMI 12:00 EDI 14:10

[CabinCrewe]

Glasgow seems to be doing well out of the BACF charters on shiny new Embs !

[virginblue]

Does Cityflyer find useful weekend work for hte E170s as well? I am sure the E190s contribute a lot to the bottom line with these charter flights, so having the E170s sitting on the ground for almost two days with little to no work must make them look rather unattractive for the bean-counters from a comparative perspective.

[marlowe]

Well the aircraft only sit idle for 24 hours due to LCY shutting at lunchtime saturday and reopening sunday lunchtime so thats not nearly 2 days!

[virginblue]

Well the aircraft only sit idle for 24 hours due to LCY shutting at lunchtime saturday and reopening sunday lunchtime so thats not nearly 2 days!

According to the timetable, Cityflyer LCY-ops more or less end on Friday evenings and resume at 5 pm on Sunday. The only exception is a sat morning departure to EDI and two early afternoon departures on sundays to BCN and NCE. So it is closer to two days than 24 hours.

[marlowe]

Can assure you that BAcityflyer has more than 3 departures out of LCY over the 2 day period you are describing!

[AirLCY]

It's a bit quieter now until the ski flights start in December, next summer charter will have more flying than BA Laddy mentions, both aircraft types

[DutchBird-757]

Care to elaborate on that AirLCY?

Also, are we looking at expanding the AMS service during summer 2011?
The first draft slot allocation list from AMS has been released and there's a 536 slots increase that's been awarded, nearly half the current operation!
historic, requested, allocated.
BA CityFlyer CJ 1204 1740 1740

Doesn't have to mean anything yet but why request it otherwise?
These slots are different from the mainline ones. Mainline goes from 4500 to 5100 slots)

Could it mean another 1 or 2 daily rotations?

Cityjet/KLM/Air France/Scot Airways etc operates around 8 or 9 flights a day between LCY and AMS with 2760 slots. (down from 2790) But that total must surely also include there other destinatins ex AMS. That is if WX falls under the old VLM still. If they fall under KLM themselfs it's impossible to get a breakdown.

[RJ100]

BA Cityflyer took delivery of it's 11th E-Jet (5 170's & 6 190's), and also the 700th Embraer E-Jet, on November 5th 2010. It was the last of the original firm order. 2 more are due from the options taken, they are due for delivery in April and June 2011.

RJ.

[silverstreak]

What happened at EDI the other night? E190 taxied 'over' a tow-bar........

P-L-E-A-S-E :ugh:

[DutchBird-757]

Allegedly EDI-LCY is going to be increased to 10 flights a day with the arrival of the new aircrafts. (currently at 7) Not yet sure if it's after the arrival of 'YO'.

An 'YM' had indeed a tow bar incident at EDI.

[silverstreak]

... Heard that it was a 'full evac' on YM after the incident.

What are BA going to do. This isnt the first time that an aircraft (BA or BACF) has been involved in a ground incident in EDI in recent times. They just keep happening.
Safety and training appear to be severely compromised.

Lets hope that it doesnt get any more serious than 'taxiing over a tow-bar' :ooh:

[DutchBird-757]

Don't know the details but 'YM' is back up and running so damage couldn't have been that substantial in the end. Haven't heard about the full evac. Can't see any reason to do that aswell from what I know.

I find the groundguys at EDI to be quite good actually. Unfortunately things keep happening.

[towser]

It certainly wasn't a full evac. YM required 2 wheels to be changed and a brake unit as well. I don't know full details but it did involve a tow bar getting run over!

[DutchBird-757]

Some more detail about S11 is starting to emerge.
BA has requested slots at LCY for;

- 2 flights per day to Munich
- new early flight to Zurich (0700 departure)
- 3 flights per week to Sofia (if true we can perhaps expect a reduction of LHR-SOF frequency to be announced?)
- 3 flights per week to Keflavik
- Milan Linate
- Venice. (summer leisure destination aka PMI/IBZ)
- 10 x daily EDI
- 5 or 6 times a day AMS. (rumor)

[flying phil 2007]

10 x EDI! not surprised, all the E190's I have been on lately have been pretty full up.
Think BA are must be eating Cityjets lunch, about time Cityjet thought of upgrading their fleet.
(although I did have to put up with an ancient Titan 146 a few weeks ago coming back from Glasgow as one of the shiny new Embraers had gone tech)

[WHBM]

Think BA are must be eating Cityjets lunch, about time Cityjet thought of upgrading their fleet.
Back when Scot Airways actually ran the Edinburgh route themselves the service was second-to-none and they were real competition for BA. When CityJet took their operation over these standards were steadily lost to corporate pennypinching from (ultimately) Paris. They steadily economised themselves right out of the market.

[DutchBird-757]

Yeah, the EDI's are supposedly going back to pre-recession levels.

Both SOF and KEF puzzle me and to be honest I can't see those materialize. Both seem way out of reach from LCY.
SOF is about 1130nm and KEF is about 1075nm so roughly 2hr45 min away. WAW was rumored as well and is similar to a MAD or PMI.

MUC would be quite a bold move to compete with LH head on.

[globetrotter79]

DutchBird-757:

When carriers apply for slots, they are able to 'hide' the true destination of the planned route if they wish, either by using a generic code for a non-existant airport, or often by filing a misnomer.

The KEF and SOF I believe are beyond the range (non-stop) of the BACF Embraers from LCY (that is, without a very significant payload reduction) and if you can see the full slots data you will also be able to see that, given the departure and return arrival times requested, the aircraft would never be able to make it there and back to these points in the allotted time.

This is just someone at BACF trying to wind us up. Possibly the filing for MUC is similar, to see what LH's reaction would be....I think you will also find that they haven't requested slots at the other end of these routes, which is something of a telltale sign!

[DutchBird-757]

Thanks Globetrotter79. I wasn't aware how the process worked. Is there somewhere were we can see what's being requested at the UK end?
I'm guessing we'll see Oslo, Prague and Venice. Pure speculation on my part.

[virginblue]

This is just someone at BACF trying to wind us up. Possibly the filing for MUC is similar, to see what LH's reaction would be....I think you will also find that they haven't requested slots at the other end of these routes, which is something of a telltale sign!

Indeed nothing filed at MUC.

[airhumberside]

BACF have applied for slots (with the CJ code) at FRA for an EMB-190 operated LCY service next summer (EMB-170 on Sundays). Some of the slots have been 'cleared'

Clearly they are keeping their options open

[Skipness One Echo]

BACF have applied for slots (with the CJ code) at FRA for an EMB-190 operated LCY service next summer (EMB-170 on Sundays). Some of the slots have been 'cleared'

Hang on, they've served LCY-FRA all the way back to being BA CitiExpress surely.

[BAladdy]

The only exception is a sat morning departure to EDI and two early afternoon departures on sundays to BCN and NCE.

Have just taken a look at flight in mid July, it looks as if BCN and NCE are now planned to depart later than what they did during S10 (BCN 15:20 dep, NCE 16:20 dep).

BACF appear to be operating the following flight on a Saturday at LCY

LCY Arrivals

BA8760 ZRH 07:50
BA8466 CPH 08:00
BA8490 ARN 08:40
BA8752 MAD 09:00
BA8476 NCE 11:50
BA8472 BCN 12:10

LCY Departures

BA8471 BCN 07:00
BA8475 NCE 07:00
BA8702 EDI 08:15
BA8704 EDI 09:10
BA8722 GLA 09:30

Just also noticed that GLA appears to be increasing on a Sunday. During S10 GLA-LCY operated a max of 2 flights on a Sunday. In S11 it is now showing 4. Details below.

BA8721 GLA 11:50 LCY 13:10
BA8723 GLA 13:30 LCY 14:50
BA8725 GLA 13:40 LCY 15:00
BA8727 GLA 14:30 LCY 15:50

(Flight Schedule info based on info from ba.com. For dates 23/07/11 & 24/07/11).

[airhumberside]

Hang on, they've served LCY-FRA all the way back to being BA CitiExpress surely.
So they have. Sorry. They must have to reapply for their slots for whatever reason

[DutchBird-757]

Regarding the 'extra' GLA's on sundays. That must be because of the extra aircraft needed in GLA for the charters. Surely out of those 4 flights 2 aircraft fly down to LCY and stay their in time for monday's program. Instead of positioning they are trying to get some money back while they are at it.

[LD12986]

AGP and FAO launched for the summer, and increased frequencies for AMS, GLA and EDI:

BA to launch LCY flights to Faro and Malaga - Business Traveller (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/ba-to-launch-lcy-flights-to-faro-and-malaga)

[FlyboyUK]

In the Times today there's a picture of one of the EMB's with it's nosewheel collapsed in the snow. Anyone know what happened?

[DutchBird-757]

I'm well surprised to read FAO and AGP from LCY. That must be very close to incuring payload restrictions on the outbound.

[egnxema]

BA Cityflier are currently unstoppable at LCY - their expansion is remarkable!

Heard a rumour thay are planning LCY LIN? Anyone confirm?

[cornishsimon]

It wouldnt surprise me to see further expansion from BA at LCY

Think we might see a few more E jets & maybe a couple more A318's !
(in addition to the options on the Ejet already taken)

cs

[Jaq]

Chicago if long range engines become available. If you listen to the engineers that is.

Does Mainline BA guys not see what's going on here?

[akerosid]

"BA Cityflier are currently unstoppable at LCY - their expansion is remarkable!"

That's what happens when you replace an acft people loathe (the RJ) with one they love; it's the difference between chalk and cheese; the airline flies two highly popular types; it's sometimes said that the type of aircraft doesn't matter; maybe on leisure flights, it doesn't, but business travellers do and I think this is a perfect example of the type of aircraft influencing the popularity of an airline.

Any chance of Jersey being served by BA Cityflyer?

[LD12986]

Does Mainline BA guys not see what's going on here?

Not sure what point you are trying to make. The TATL flights from LCY are operated by BA Airbus pilots from LHR. And as much as I'd like to see more TATL routes from LCY, it is going to remain very much a niche product.

[Aero Mad]

akerosid, some people (like myself!!) did in fact like the RJ100s. But we are a rare lot ;) .

Re: LCY - JER; you've got Aurigny from Stansted as well as Flybe and British Airways (mainline) from Gatwick. BMI dropped the Heathrow route for lack of demand, and Cityjet dropped the City route earlier this year - however it was speculated that the failure of the Heathrow route was partly due to a very loyal Jersey based BA customer base.

For this reason, an LCY - JER route operated by Cityflyer might well work out, and it could share handling with the already established LGW route. It could therefore be concluded that they might give it a shot in the next year or so - any hope for Guernsey though? With FlyBe and Aurigny already flying from Gatwick (with the former introducing 175s on the route as of April) as well as flights from Stansted and Southampton (mind you, this is the same as Jersey), I doubt it.

[BAladdy]

Has anyone heard any info on exactly how many charter flights BACF are planning to operate during S11 from EDi, GLA and ABZ?

I notice that BACF are operating 3 one off charter flights from LBA to NAP next summer on behalf of Omega Holidays. Does anyone know if BACF are operating any other flights on behalf of this tour operator??

[Chitty]

thay are also doing flights from humberside to napels

[towser]

We did a couple of 'Northern Lights' charters for Omega holidays late last year and I saw them advertised in the paper again for March so we might be doing those as well.

[DutchBird-757]

More info here;
Leeds;

Operated by E190 for Omega Travels from LBA to NAP.
Saturdays= May 14 to 21st. July 30th to August 06th and lastly on August 27th - September 03rd.


Doncaster / Sheffield;


It came up under a BA search. Could it be BACF who operates them?
Northern Lights flights from Robin Hood Airport | Travel news from car rentals (http://news.carrentals.co.uk/northern-lights-flights-from-robin-hood-airport-3429400.html)

[forcandle]

I've got an assessment day coming up with BaCf. Can anyone give some info on rosters. Are they all day trips or any overnighters? City looks like an expensive place to relocate to?

Any top tips on the assessment day would be appreciated. Pm may be more appropriate.

Atb.

[DutchBird-757]

@ Forcandle. Rosters have no real pattern in them. Could be anything from 5/6 day trips to daytrips with almost every combination possible. For f/o's rosters are stable, captains less so.

Found some BACF charters on another website from STN to Venice (4x) and Birmingham to Stockholm in June. (1x)

[DutchBird-757]

BACF is adding more flights from LCY this summer.

Faro (4 x a week) and Malaga (3 x a week) start on June 7th and 8th respectively. And they will be operated year round.

Extra flights;
Nice: May - Sept > Up to double daily.
Palma: July - Sept > From 4 up to 10 times a week
Ibiza: July - Sept > From 4 up to 10 times a week

A total of 39 flights a week to the sun at the height of summer.

[gilbertmchris]

Cant wait....!

[parky747]

Great to see the leisure routes doing well for BACF, would love to see them offer something similar from MAN!

[cornishsimon]

Cityflyer at MAN would certainly be a nice sight
cs

[MUFC_fan]

Is their 'home' still MAN?

[Shrimps]

Yes - head office is in Didsbury.

[BAladdy]

Palma: July - Sept > From 4 up to 10 times a week
Ibiza: July - Sept > From 4 up to 10 times a week

Does anyone know when BACF are going to release there 10 x weekly schedules for PMI and IBZ??

Between July and September the flights to IBZ and PMI are currently showing as operating 6 x Weekly from 4th July to 4th September, then 3 x Weekly to end OCT

[DutchBird-757]

I guess they are still trying to find an aircraft/crew to operate it.

[Skipness One Echo]

Hi all, I was wondering, if BA mainline wanted to buy some ERJs and have CFE operate from Gatwick, is this forbidden under current industrial agreements?

If it is, is there any impediment to having BA buy their own sub fleet and have mainline crew them?

Thanks

[cym]

Eurotraveller offering on AMS-LCY which I've flown a few times of late is pretty pants! Snack back with a carton of water and thats ur lot!

[pamann]

It's a 50 minute flight... What do you expect?

[cym]

a similar level of service you get on AMS LGW with a sector length of ermm 50 mins! A snack and a drink - fares are similar so why the discrepancy in the service offered? Cityjet offer a full service offering on LCY - AMS and I would like BA to do the same it just seems a lost opportunity to offer good customer service. For the record I like BA losts - I worked for em!!

[dhc83driver]

50mins! last two i did were around 35min airborne. with 10 mins up and pre landing, that left 10-15mins for service with up to 98pax. I think the bags are a good idea. At least you get something instead of watching the trolley get to two rows in front and then hearing those magic words "10 mins to landing!". I think the crew do a great job to do a service on such a short flight.

[cym]

Cityjet manage and I would rather pinch their pax than the other way around!

[pwalhx]

I am not sure why people are so desperate for a drink and food on such a short flight. It really isnt needed. trouble is people have grown to expect them rather than think do I really need or want.
I flew up London to Manchester on Monday night from leaving the runway at Heathrow to landing at manchester was 30 minutes the crew rushed round with drinks and snack which to me seemed a totally pointless exercise just because people expect it rather than need it.

[AirLCY]

Cityjet fly slower rj's and fokkers = more time to serve pax. I know which aircraft I'd rather fly though!

[WHBM]

I am not sure why people are so desperate for a drink and food on such a short flight. It really isnt needed. Trouble is people have grown to expect them rather than think do I really need or want.
Possibly you don't travel on business.

Flight outwards at 0800, return at 1900.

What this really means is up at 0530, out of house (quietly please) by 0600 before the family are up, 1 hour drive to airport, get delayed, arrive 0715, check-in and security, into lounge at 0740 just as pax being called to gate.

Arrive 1000 local (one hour time change), storm out of airport into taxi to office, get there 1050. Everyone else sat round meeting table and we're off by 1100.

"A late start so we'll work through lunch".

Try to finish for 1700 but too many last second things not discussed. Taxi sat waiting outside. Away at 1715 into evening rush hour. Finally arrive airport 1810. Long security queue, to gate at 1840 just as pax being called.

Land back at 1900 local. Into car, pay fortune at car park exit, 1 hour home, pull up at 2030. Family have eaten. Dishes in dishwasher.

Now where was there a chance in all that for a bite to eat, a pleasant drink, ec. That's right - in the plane.

Seriously, all, this is the market that makes up your core business. Can you see why in-flight catering makes one prefer a carrier that provides it ? Or why we despair when people, particularly airline beancounters, say it "isn't needed".

[jerboy]

50mins! last two i did were around 35min airborne. with 10 mins up and pre landing, that left 10-15mins for service with up to 98pax.

The absolute stars of CC operating between JER and LGW manage a Club Europe light meal, and a snack and drink service in Traveller, in 35mins with up to 140 pax on board!!

Agreed that more is needed than a shot of water, especially at peak business times.

[easyflyer83]

WHBM I see your point to a certain extent apart from the fact that you believe your eating habits/schedule (whatever you want to call it) is the airlines problem. You are old enough and ugly enough, i'm sure, to look after your own dietery needs.

[Airlift21]

It doesn't matter how short the flight is, it's nice to be able to relax and have a coffee or something before reaching my destination and starting work again! Maybe next time I should take a flask with me as it's not the airlines problem to cater for my dietary needs!

[cym]

Totally agree with Jerboy.

We are not talking U2 prices here either for ET seats so upping the product delivered is worth considering - I too am often in a situation where sitting on the aircraft home is the first change I've had to eat all day - be nice if that was factored in, a snack bag with a sandwich takes as long to distribute as the current one with a small pack of crisps!

[WHBM]

Not quite getting there, am I ..... ?

You are old enough and ugly enough, i'm sure, to look after your own dietery needs.
Well that's true of anywhere in life. At our office where we have customer meetings, we always offer nice coffee, biscuits, something at lunchtime, etc. We don't say to people who turn up (often by BA domestics, by the way, and thus foodless) "Hey, you should look after yourself, there's a caff round the corner, we're a business not a restaurant ..." and similar extensions of this discussion. Because if I said it like that then we soon wouldn't have any customers, and/or the Chairman would rapidly be having a meeting with me at which refreshments would definitely NOT be served !

To get back to the original point, it was about sevice on LCY-AMS, and cym wrote that they would rather take pax from Cityjet rather than the other way round. And if you look back in PPRuNe a few months you'll find notes from me about a trip on exactly this route, where, BA Exec Card notwithstanding, I had chosen Cityjet. They had been notably cheaper, and provided drinks and a snack both ways. So what more do you get from BA for the extra ?

[pwalhx]

WHBM I travel on business all the time and am very familiar with the scenario you paint of early mornings and late nights. My point was on very short flights i.e. 30-45 minutes I personally do not see the need for a drink or a snack, however we can agree to disagree on that point.

[WHBM]

My point was on very short flights i.e. 30-45 minutes I personally do not see the need for a drink or a snack.
Indeed, although I would finish off by pointing out that a "30-45 minute flight" is actually a wheels-up to wheels-down measurement, which may be fine for calculating airframe hours, but for the passenger the total experience on such a flight is entering airport premises to leaving airport premises, which on such a "very short" flight is typically 2 to 3 hours.

Yes, I know the time being processed at the airport is (most fortunately) a bit less at LCY :)

[pwalhx]

Which kind of reinforces the fact if you so wish you have time for a drink or food before you fly.

[DutchBird-757]

You can't compare our service to that of a LGW/LHR flight. You can do a proper service but just not with 2 cabin cew on a full flight. After many arguments the decision has been made to stick with 2 cc on short/full flights thus the service had to be reduced. Was on a full LHR-AMS the other week with 5 or 6 c/c! Not so difficult to do a service then.

But still I would pick an E-Jet over the RJ any day in terms of comfort. And yes, I am biased....:p At least you'll get more flexibility when they go up to six flights a day soon!

[AirLCY]

They still offer a croissant for breakfast though, shame no tea / coffee / bar though. Is it just for AMS as the rest still seem to have hot breakfast?

[goerring]

Skipness in reply,

1. As far as I understand BACF could fly out of Gatwick as long as the aircraft ( Embraer ) they flew had less than 100 seats.

NB. BACF Embraer 190s have 98 seats.

This restriction is embodied in the Scope industrial agreement.

As an aside.... this agreement is why when BA Cityflyer(2) began operating in 2007 , flying RJ100s ( 110 seats ) it had to base its crew in Edinburgh until agreement could be made during the coffee break that LCY was not LHR or LGW and that BACF could fly 110 seat aircraft out of London with London ( but not mainline ) crews.


2. Again if BA or a BA subsiduary operated a "sub fleet" out if Gatwick then anything over 100 seats needs mainline crew unless scope is renegotiated or ignored.

[BAladdy]

According to VCE airports online timetable

http://www.veniceairport.it/media/fop/orariovoli_en.pdf

BACF will be operating charter flights from STN and GLA to VCE during S11, timetable below. Info taken from VCE timetable.

Glasgow to Venice

BA4543 GLA 05:35 VCE 09:55 6 (28MAY11-09JUL11, 23JUL11-22OCT11)

BA4544 VCE 10:45 GLA 13:05 6 (04JUN11-09JUL11, 23JUL11-22OCT11)

London Stansted to Venice

BA4539 STN 10:05 VCE 13:10 6 (28MAY11-17SEP11)

BA4540 VCE 13:55 STN 15:00 6 (04JUN11-24SEP11)

Anyone know who these are being operated for??

Also see that BACF are operating a Saturday Charter to PMI and Sunday charter to NBE

[Oceanman]

We are booked on the Glasgow - Venice flights. It is a charter by Royal Caribbean to join Voyager of the Seas in Venice.

[BAladdy]

It is good to see BACF expanding there charter program.

I just hope that there weekend charter operation doesn't impact on the reliability of there LCY scheduled operation

[AirLCY]

I guess they have to do something with the planes when LCY is closed...

[BAladdy]

I guess they have to do something with the planes when LCY is closed...

I totally agree and it is the perfect way to increase revenue.

It appears that most of the charter flights are to operate on a Saturday with some flights on a Sunday morning. I just hope that BACF have a available spare aircraft on a Sunday. Just in case one of the charter picks up a tech, weather or ATC delay.

[AirLCY]

I guess that's no different to them having the delay on a scheduled service though really, they use Titan to help them out occasionally I think.

[Lord Molton Brown]

Well moving off thread, I am sure most of our BACF friends and ex - colleagues, must be looking at the on going concerns of pay and conditions at Flybe. Apart from wearing a comfortable and smart uniform, how is life within your company? Is everyone happy there? Are you overworked and underpaid as a wholly owned subsiduary of BA, do you feel you ought to be paid the same salary as Mainline? Do you have the same issue that Flybe pilots seem to have? One can only assume that life is fantastic on your side and everyone is happy, by the lack of input. I don't really care, but am just curious.

Any thoughts?

[marlowe]

Life is fabulous over at BACF my Lord.

[DutchBird-757]

From May 3rd EDI will see 8 or even 9 daily LCY flights to cater for increased demand. GLA will already be up to 5 a day.

To accomodate these extra flights an Atlantic Airways RJ85 will be wet leased until delivery of the last E190 in June. It will operate the CPH route.

[RJ100]

Lord M. Brown.

The issues we face at BACF are the same that we faced at Connect, CitiExpress and all other incarnations of this company.

i.e POOR Pay, same management style (although they claim to care & have started several idea's and ways to appear all touchy feely).

Pay negotiations started... if an acceptable offer is not received many feel it is now time to put our feet down and say enough is enough. However...... we will have to wait and see what transpires.

And yes we are still looked upon as the poor stepchild of BA. :ouch:

RJ.

[Skipness One Echo]

So.....is it understood that in the current incarnation with the current Ts & Cs at the end of the large capital investment, is CFE trading profitably?

[dublindispatch]

And they doing a charter flight into DUB Thursday

[towser]

There is a charter out of Dublin on Thursday night to BHX. Can't tell you who its for though I'm afraid.

[dublindispatch]

Its for the WWF Tour

[BAladdy]

What effect will the delayed delivery of the E190 have on BACF's ops in June?

I also noticed that Titan's 146, G-ZAPN, was operating for BACF yesterday and is planned to today operate

BA8700/BA8703 LCY-EDI-LCY
BA8453/BA8454 LCY-AMS-LCY
BA8712/BA8717 LCY-EDI-LCY

Anyone know the reason behind the adhoc lease from Titan?

[JSCL]

Titan because those flights were due to be on the EMB's. That is the start of any knock on effects.

The bunch of 'spare' BACF 146's have already been remarketed by BAEAM.

[frankdjs]

Was on the 8485 to PMI yesterday afternoon and the pilot said the plane had been swapped (also a 170) due to going tech. There were also long delays on the 170 operated flights from Nice and Ibiza.

I guess the issued continued today and they drafted in Titan to cover the flights.

[towser]

There was 1 190 tech in Nice yesterday hence the need for Titan. This prob had a knock on effect on the rest of the schedules.

[cmf146]

Since 3 May 11 they have had the full time use of an Atlantic Airlines RJ, firstly an RJ85 and now their RJ100. Due to remain until the next Emb is delivered I think.

[32SQDN]

Are the Embraers proving to be as reliable as expected or are we only hearing about the odd instances that there are tech problems?

[OntimeexceptACARS]

I'd heard that the reason it won't now be delivered until late June is due to some electronics parts which are sourced in Japan being late to Brazil, a knock on from the earthquake.

[towser]

I'm told that YP is late because it needs engines. The aircraft is complete apparently but without engines. I believe the fan blades are made in Japan. As for reliability in my experience they are pretty good certainly much better than the RJ was.

[goerring]

airberlin and British Airways have reached a codeshare agreement covering selected flights within Europe.

The code share also applies to non-stop British Airways flights from Frankfurt and Zurich to London City Airport


Good news for BA Cityflyer.

[flying phil 2007]

Just spent all day at Edinburgh airport - BA8701 due to leave at 11:15.. finally we departed just after 7pm. . G-LCYJ went tech they had to fly in a new sensor from Stansted,, plus a further Embraer at EDI went tech too,,,
All the other flights to London were jam packed full . . heard BMI offering £200 compo to move to a different flight, , what a mare,,, seriously thinking of switching to the train in future.
All I got was a £5 light refreshment voucher,, think I deserve some decent compo.. not impressed ;((

update... came home on the train last wek AND the bloody thing conked out at Berwick on Tweed. .must be me :ugh: at least you get a full refund on the train. . .

Back on the jungle jet on Monday. . they do seem to have a lot of speedtape on them.. on the winglets,., and fin,, does not inspire confidence.. but they are lovely inside

[traveller42]

Cityflyer must have something more wrong than just one plane going tech on the day. I did a trip to Amsterdam last week. On the way out, the morning Madrid was cancelled. On the way back, the morning two from AMS-LCY were cancelled and the 8458 was well over an hour late.

[AirLCY]

I've heard the last Embraer being delivered late has caused a number of delays / issues - lots of use of Titan Airways 146. Anyone know when the last E190 is due to be delivered?

[BAladdy]

I've heard the last Embraer being delivered late has caused a number of delays / issues - lots of use of Titan Airways 146. Anyone know when the last E190 is due to be delivered?

G-LCYP is due to enter service sometime today.

Titan have operated a single 146 (either G-ZAPK or G-ZAPN) on behalf of BA on 4 of the last 7 days (21st, 22nd, 24th & 27th). It has been mostly used on the GLA or AMS services. It is planned that G-ZAPK will return to Titan's STN base today after it operate BA8725 GLA to LCY

BACF also found themselves having to lease aircraft from other carriers to operate A handful of charter flghts last weekend. They leased a 130 seater 737-300 (G-ZAPW) from Titan and a 219 seater 757 from Air Finland (OH-AFL)

[BAladdy]

Just noticed that BACF have 2 Bae 146's operating on some of there flights for next week.

The first 146 is operating

Sunday

BA8735 FRA 19:05 LCY 19:40
BA8736 LCY 19:45 FRA 22:15 (Flight showing a delayed departure of 20:10)

Monday

BA8731 FRA 07:05 LCY 07:40
BA8732 LCY 08:10 FRA 10:40
BA8733 FRA 11:45 LCY 12:20
BA8734 LCY 14:40 FRA 17:15
BA8735 FRA 18:05 LCY 18:45
BA8736 LCY 19:15 FRA 21:55

Tuesday

BA8731 FRA 07:05 LCY 07:40
BA8732 LCY 08:10 FRA 10:40
BA8733 FRA 11:45 LCY 12:20
BA8734 LCY 14:40 FRA 17:15
BA8735 FRA 18:05 LCY 18:45

The second 146 is showing as operating

Monday

BA8723 GLA 07:45 LCY 09:15
BA8475 LCY 09:45 NCE 12:50
BA8476 NCE 13:40 LCY 14:45
BA8767 LCY 15:50 ZRH 18:30
BA8768 ZRH 19:05 LCY 19:45

Tuesday

BA8763 LCY 07:30 ZRH 10:10
BA8764 ZRH 10:40 LCY 11:15
BA8459 LCY 17:05 AMS 19:15
BA8458 AMS 19:55 LCY 20:00

I also noticed for the next few months there has been a couple of routes that are showing a reduction in frequency:.

LCY-AMS - Reduced from 6 to 5 x daily
LCY-ARN - Reduced from 11 flights a week to 8 flights a week
LCY-CPH - Reduced from 11 flights a week to 8 flights a week

Are both aircraft leased from Titan?. Anyone know the reason behind the lease and the cancelled services?

[CabinCrewe]

Spread too thin over the weekend with all those holiday charters.... LCYP at GLA

[AirLCY]

1 a/c scheduled maint
1 a/c ground damage

[towser]

ARN and CPH are reduced to allow extra rotations to IBZ and PMI for peak summer months.

[BAladdy]

It looks as if the aircraft operating the FRA is D-AMGL operated by WDL Aviation

[cornishsimon]

could it be about time to see an order for cityflyer for E-Jets to increase capacity ?

cs

[CabinCrewe]

They have the right capacity for current scheduled program, the money making schemes of trying to squeeze in so much weekend charter stuff was a recipe for problems in the height of summer. Any further scheduled expansion would undoubtedly need more capacity

[towser]

Cornishsimon ; Watch this space! Possibly more a/c to come.

[cornishsimon]

i suppose it depends on if they are able to expand ex LCY, are they able to get slots etc and also do they have any destinations on the horizon ?

i also think that there is plenty of scope for expanding the charter operation given the amount of charter flights they are currently doing !

Is there any chance of a LCY-NQY-LCY route on the E170 ?

and also is there any chance in the future of some scheduled ex Scotland routes that dont touch LCY ? EDI-JER etc ?

cs

[goerring]

VALENCIA 18TH JULY, 2011
Air Nostrum, the Iberia Regional Aviation franchise company, member, together with British Airways, of the Oneworld Airline Alliance, has decided to set up a new Madrid-Glasgow flight route.

This new Madrid-Glasgow flight route has been designed to cover both holiday and business passenger demand to and from Madrid, considered not only Spain’s most important financial centre, but also one of Europe’s most popular holiday destinations. The Barajas Airport Terminal 4 also stands out as an important gateway to Latin America from Europe.

Air Nostrum operating Madrid - Glasgow rotation from 1st Nov Tue / Thurs on CRJ 200.

Can they start the route off more cost effectively than Cityflyer ?

[DutchBird-757]

Why not let IB regional operate the GLA-MAD and BACF EDI-MAD?

[flying phil 2007]

Got delayed AGAIN on BA Cityflyer on Monday 8 Aug.. over an hour.. apparently 'due to technical problems across the fleet today'..

>> they are starting to get a reputation according to the other passengers.. hope the Embrarers can stand up to the bashing they get landing at LCY.

[towser]

Phil it may have been due to a tech problem but there was an ATC computer issue on Monday with issuing flight plan clearances in the morning. Some flights were sat on the ground for 2hrs just to get a clearance which would have had a knock on effect throughout the day.

[flying phil 2007]

thanks Towser - I did notice that there were a lot of delays and cancellations at LCY on Monday for all airlines,
Flew back from EDI last night no problem . . even got the grand tour of Kent (for spacing I presume) before landing on 28.

The EMB190's always seem to be full up on the LCY - EDI run, must be doing good business. . maybe CityJet will have to raise their game..

AND why do people insist on humping their bags into the cabin and cramming then into the overhead bins... it only takes a couple of minutes to check them in and collect at EDI and LCY??

[cornishsimon]

Here's hoping for some increases from cityflyer, routes and aircraft

cs

[flying phil 2007]

in cased you missed it.. not having a lot of luck of at the moment,,,,,


Incident: BA Cityflyer E190 at London on Aug 18th 2011, disabled on runway after landing

By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Aug 18th 2011 14:26Z, last updated Thursday, Aug 18th 2011 14:26Z

A BA Cityflyer Embraer ERJ-190, registration G-LCYK performing flight CJ-8711/BA-8711 from Edinburgh,SC to London City,EN (UK), landed safely on London City's runway however had to stop on the runway being unable to vacate the runway. The aircraft was towed off the runway.


The airport reported the runway was closed for nearly an hour until the aircraft was towed off the runway. Two inbound Air France and two inbound British Airways flights had to divert.



The airline said, the airplane suffered a "minor technical fault" and could not clear the runway.

[Brian_W]

hi - Anyone got further details -
according to ba.com arrivals/departures a BA Cityflyer 190 left for VKO last night from City Airport, returning tonight - 12 th September
as BA4502 - VKO to City Airport (London).

Was this a charter or test flight, perhaps ? Also, is that the furthest non-stop a 190 has flown from LCY ? Have read reports in the past that said
London City to Moscow was possible as a scheduled service now ?

[bycrewlgw]

It's probably carrying the PM who is in Russia meeting the pm and president.

[Aero Mad]

Why on LCY's arrival page does it say this?

London City Airport LCY BA9261T 14:45 On time

Training?

[BAladdy]

Looks like a training flight.

BA9261T is due to depart LCY at 12:45 and land back at 14:45

BA9260/BA9261 Are the flight numbers used for training and positioning flights for the A318 aircraft.

[WHBM]

Do BA do all their steep approach etc training at LCY or do they still use Gloucester Staverton, which has a complete set of PAPIs etc set up to simulate the LCY approach ?

[CabinCrewe]

There was supposed to be a BA LCY London "sight seeing" tour so perhaps it was that as per thebasource, but dont know of that was perhaps tongue in cheek

[BAladdy]

Double checked G-EUNA carried out training flights after arrival into LCY from JFK on Saturday am. Instead of positioning to LGW as normal, aircraft night stopped LCY to enable a further flight training flight to be carried once the aircraft opened at lunchtime today. Aircraft then operated BA003 to SNN/JFK this afternoon

[AirLCY]

WHBM - lots of training is done at Cambridge, none ever at Staverton as far as I can see. LCY is too expensive and restrictive for training flights.

[Skipness One Echo]

LCY is too expensive and restrictive for training flights.

The SkyWork Do328 was doing a morning's training at LCY a few weeks back, someone should have told them and saved them a fortune.
Also I think the A318 spends most weekends at City as it only nips down to LGW for hangar checks.

[Burger81]

Hi all,

Would anyone be able to provide me with a contact number for HR please. I have been trying 0161 447 5400 but it rings a few times then just goes dead. I have been having some issues with the online application for the current positions and have had no reply from the email address and time is quickly running out to the closing date.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Burger81

[AirLCY]

Try 4475500, think that's reception.

[Burger81]

AirLCY

Thanks very much mate.... great help :ok:

Burger81

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know if BACF have any charter work planned for the winter season?

With the fleet having two more aircraft than last year I am quite suprised that BACF have not added a new route or two (BUD, PRG or WAW maybe) for the W11/12 season.

[rallymania]

First off, as a fairly frequent traveller on EDI to LCY and back (roughly once a month for the last five years) i have to say loving the new fleet, much more comfortable and (my perception) much fewer delays.

anyway, next stoopid question in a very occasional series. (my last one about the old RJ's was a little off the mark so i'm ready for a mocking)
em190 steep approach into LCY, deploys speedbrakes on the final part of the descent.
if you were landing from a similarly steep profile approach, but onto a runway say twice as long would you still use the speed brakes?
ie are they needed to keep the speed down in the descent, or is it to allow the approach to be made with more throttle applied and thus speed up the transition into a go around if you need to abort the approach?
Or do the passengers just need waking up, and this is the easyist way to do it without touching them?

PS i know no real need for knowing the answer to this, it just popped into my head on Wednesday while being shoogled into LCY

[towser]

Rallymania; the spoilers are deployed on the approach to require more thrust on the engines so that in the event of a missed approach the engines will speed up much quicker. With out the spoilers the engines are pretty much at idle and would take too long to speed up in a go around.Think of it like being in the wrong gear in a car when you pull out to overtake and stand on the accelerator not much happens. By deploying the spoilers you've effectively dropped down a gear or two. The size of the runway has no bearing on the steep approach it just makes the landing trickier! Glad your liking our new toys!

[dhc83driver]

Towser`s explanation is very good, Also on the Embraer the spoilers help the fly by wire, fly the aircraft at a more comfortable attitude. With out it the nose would be pointing down at at a greater angle and it would feel uncomfortable in the cabin. The spoilers are also very clever on the Embraer and are active during the approach. If you watch them on a bumpy day they go in and out alot in reaction to the pitch of the aircraft to keep everything in balance.

[WorstGW]

Ah, thanks dhc83driver, I'd been wondering why the approach into LCY feels less steep in Embraers than in RJs.

[Expressflight]

A landing distance 'credit' applies to some aircraft types as a result of the steeper approach path due to the fact that a more precise touchdown point should be achievable. The RJ series benefits from this in terms of a reduced LDR, but I dont know if it also applies to the Embraers.

[rallymania]

Thanks folks

Appreciate the answers.

Apparently I took "stay curious" seriously :)

[WHBM]

Glad your liking our new toys!
Can I ask a question about the "new toys" ? By coincidence I've only used the E190 each time, not the E170, but doubt they differ in this.

Does the autopilot do steeper turns than other types ? I have noticed when manoeuvring around that the bank angle in the E190 just seems steeper. It all feels nicely coordinated so the AP must have the ball in the middle, but it just seems, looking out of the window, to have a greater angle.

If you are going to say that it is the same as say an A320 then I'll just blame it on an optical illusion from the winglets sticking up.

[towser]

It must just be an illusion because as far as I'm aware they don't bank any further than any other type.

[parky747]

Was looking at Manchester Airport Wiki page and its showing BACF as operating Seasonal: Cagliari, Ibiza, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca from MAN T3!

Manchester Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Airport)

Are these flights on behalf of tour operators, schuduled seasonal flights yet to be published on BA.com or completely incorrect info?

Thanks

[BAladdy]

Cagliari

Flights operated S11 EDI-MAN-CAG-MAN-EDI From late May to late September.

They have been confirmed for S12 this time operating MAN-CAG-MAN

BACF will also operate a MAN-OLB-MAN service S12.


Flights (http://www.sardinia-holidays.co.uk/ayh_flights.asp)

[Lord Molton Brown]

WHBM,

Towser is correct. It must be an illusion. I would suggest that the only way the bank angle appears greater, would only happen if the autopilot had been disengaged and the aircraft was being flown manually. I have no experience of the EMB 170/175, but on the EMB195, the flight guidance control system with the autopilot engaged, limits the bank angle to 17 degrees.

How are you Towser, working hard I trust, must be time for a holiday by now surely?
:D

[towser]

Working too hard!! Holiday bound very shortly actually ,it has been 6 weeks since the last one!

[Lord Molton Brown]

As long as 6 weeks? Great Balls of fire! I have another 4 months to wait :{

[Calmcavok]

@ LMB - incorrect sir. The 17 degree limit is with the "BANK" limiter engaged, primarily for OEI operation. Without getting the book out, the actual bank angle limit is a lot more than 17 degrees function, 35 degrees comes to mind as a max, and 25 degrees for LNAV operation.
- edit to add, same across all E-Jet variants -

[Lord Molton Brown]

Thank you for pointing out my deliberate mistake! I was only using it as an illustration as to why the angle of bank may appear greater, in order to answer WHBM's question. I could not recall the actual numbers, but it is of course 35 degrees as you rightly pointed out and thank you for confirming it is the same as the 170/175 series.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

WHBM

When you ask about steeper than normal turns, are you referring to the final turn onto the localiser?

I've noticed that, depending on the closing angle and wind, this can be a much steeper turn than you'd see in any other part of your flight.

Unless of course, you've been with a particularly ropey pilot who was practising his hand flying! ;)

[WHBM]

Dear me, seem to have raised a few comments here ! Thank you to those on the flight deck for taking time to comment.

No, not just closing on finals. And I'm well used to the 180 degree turn after departing LCY 27 as well. What initially prompted this was a departure down to Palma, with a couple of such turns out over Kent. Then I noticed the same on the way home, and I've been watching since, and had another such experience heading for Edinburgh the day before the post. I am guessing the AP did all these because g-forces were neutral and we just went straight to the angle and held it to rollout. So not ropey at all (and way better balanced than WHBM's steep turns in the club PA28 !), just seemed steeper than common.

In passing, must compliment BA CF on starting that morning service to PMI. Left home at breakfast time, not middle of the night which the first departures from Gatwick require, proper hot breakfast on board, taxi from Palma, we were on the beach and in the Med before lunch. :) Oh, and a pretty full load both ways as well.

[towser]

Glad your enjoying the service it seems to have done pretty well and is sure to return next summer. The autopilot goes in at about 1000' out of Lcy before any turns so its all on autopilot and the only time it gets a little over enthusiastic is ,as Barbie said , sometimes turning onto finals.

[Skipness One Echo]

Given that the schedule on Thursday needed the whole fleetnoff blocks on the first wave, there's no leeway in the schedules at all. The absence of aircraft meant a delay to the morning LCY-ZRH whilst Titan brought a 146 over to LCY to cover. Are they going to max out next summer too or are they going to have more aircraft?

[LD12986]

Menorca, Loire Valley and Brittany added to the BA LCY summer route network:

Summer Sun - London City - British Airways (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/london-city-summer-sun/public/en_gb)

[Wycombe]

Well done to BA for finding two regional French airports (Quimper and Angers) that BE don't fly to from SOU!

[cornishsimon]

Does make you wonder why BA havnt picked up the ex SZ LCY-NQY route, from what i understand the loads were always quite good, surely it could be operated on an E170 ?

cs

[Aero Mad]

Similarly LCY-GCI? With lots of Channel Islands based BA frequent fliers, it does surprise me. But then I suppose there is significant loyalty to Aurigny. Any thoughts?

[Van G]

Does anybody happen to know if many are set to leave cityflyer and if the holdpool could see any movement soon? Any idea of numbers in the pool?

Many thanks

[cornishsimon]

Similarly LCY-GCI? With lots of Channel Islands based BA frequent fliers, it does surprise me. But then I suppose there is significant loyalty to Aurigny. Any thoughts?


I think NQY, GCI & JER could all work on the E170.

I know that BA already serve JER but the LGW and LCY markets are totally different, and a well timed JER-LCY would also allow for onward connections to JFK on the babybus

cs

[Aero Mad]

JER already served by SI.

[LD12986]

Well done to BA for finding two regional French airports (Quimper and Angers) that BE don't fly to from SOU!

What is, perhaps, noteworthy, is they've opted for two new destinations that are firmly in the territory of CityJet's LCY network which now has a large number of regional French airports.

[jerboy]

JER already served by SI.

I have no word on how SI are doing on this route, however it was brave of them to set it up in the face of stiff competition to LON, especially with the failure of VG on the route several years ago.

IMHO BA would make an absolute killing to LCY. An early JER-LCY, with an immediate return would pick up massive support from the many Frequent Fliers at either end of the route, who are still traveling to LGW with BA even tho SI already serve the route (points mean prizes!!).

Of course this would dilute the JER-LGW traffic, but in all honesty this route sticks out like a bit of a sore thumb and I think has potential to be moved back to LHR (it is, after all, mainly business traffic and a significant number of pax catching the bus to LHR)... But that's a different discussion for another thread.